Overnight Open Thread
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The best material model of a cat is another, or preferably the same, cat.
— Norbert Wiener, Philosophy of Science
258 comments
1 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:45:47pm |
The best material model of a chocolate chip cookie will not be, alas, the same chocolate chip cookie, because I ate it.
Good night.
| 2 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:48:23pm |
going to repost from downstairs:
I really haven't been paying attention.
Forty-nine ships were hijacked in the area in 2010, and Somali pirates are currently reported to be holding 31 ships, with more than 700 crew on board.
I don't understand how you can hold 700 people hostage and get away with it.
| 3 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:50:39pm |
The best material model of a cat is another, or preferably the same, cat.
Not a cheezburger?
| 4 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:51:44pm |
A small snip from a Time article...
...a prominent Bedouin smuggler in the Sinai peninsula told TIME that Bedouin are now in control of the two towns closest to the Gaza Strip, and that they planned to press on to attack the Suez Canal if Mubarak does not step down. He also said that police stations in the south Sinai would be attacked if Bedouin prisoners were not released.
Sounds like Egyptian violence isn't going to slow down right away.
| 5 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Jan 29, 2011 10:56:20pm |
In a sense, Somalis do not need to launder the money they make from piracy because their unique financial system operates on trust and honour, bypassing banks and other financial institutions.
Verbal transactions
As the system - known as "hawala" - often does not involve documentation, with most transactions done verbally, there is no paper trail.
Islamist militants man a checkpoint in southern Mogadishu, Somalia, on 20 May 2009
Islamist militias are also believed to be getting some of the ransom cashThis makes it almost impossible to find out what happens to money made from ransom payments or any other transaction in Somalia
| 6 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:05:00pm |
| 7 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:26:34pm |
Have a great morning/day all!
| 8 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:28:08pm |
| 9 |
TedStriker Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:29:56pm |
re: #5 ggt
Sounds a lot like La Cosa Nostra of old...
/standard MO for successful criminals: never record anything or write stuff down that'll get your ass pinched
| 10 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:34:21pm |
re: #9 talon_262
Sounds a lot like La Cosa Nostra of old...
/standard MO for successful criminals: never record anything or write stuff down that'll get your ass pinched
Actually, its a bit different. The Somali system is society-wide in Puntland, whereas the Mafia's system is only used within the Mafia and then only for criminal matters.
| 11 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:35:06pm |
| 12 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:40:52pm |
re: #11 Floral Giraffe
Sent you a mail.
Hope all is well.Goodnight.
Things are better, Floral. Things are better.
| 13 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:53:36pm |
| 14 |
Alexzander Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:55:01pm |
I really wish the philosophy of science was given more attention outside of the academic philosophy community.
| 15 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 29, 2011 11:55:22pm |
Good night, all.
Sleep well.
Dream the dreams of kings!
'Cause you are.
| 17 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:22:08am |
re: #1 EmmmieG
The best material model of a chocolate chip cookie will not be, alas, the same chocolate chip cookie, because I ate it.
Good night.
All your cookies belong to us!
SUBMIT!
| 18 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:25:49am |
Somalia is a prime example of the advantages of "small government" and "financial markets self-regulation"...
| 19 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:38:21am |
Thousands of inmates escape jails in Egypt turmoil
Other twitter users to follow tp keep up with #Egypt and #Jan25 (continued from here):
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
[Link: twitter.com...]
| 20 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:41:53am |
re: #17 Floral Giraffe
I could go for a coconut macaroon right now. A little sweet, but not tto much. Maybe it could be toasted & crunchy on the outside. BRB, Forraginng...
| 21 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Jan 30, 2011 12:58:52am |
To any or all of the sleep challenged reading, sleep tight.
Don't let the bedbugs bight.
Be well.
Sir.
| 22 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:30:57am |
Resigning Minister of Information orders shut-down of Al-Jazeera in Egypt. See [Link: twitter.com...]
Video: guy from .@Jan25voices explains how he tweeted phone calls w/Egyptians after gov't shut down internet.
| 23 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:34:36am |
Reuters FLASH: U.S. embassy calls for its citizens to leave Egypt as soon as possible - Al Arabiya TV
| 24 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:36:15am |
Let's hope they are sending over a fresh shipment of tear gas canisters.
| 25 |
freetoken Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:38:43am |
A little bit of Tchaikovsky for the wee hour crowd:
| 26 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:45:41am |
AJEnglish: Reminder: We have twitter list of correspondents on ground in #Egypt who are live tweeting events: [Link: twitter.com...]
| 27 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:46:34am |
| 28 |
sagehen Sun, Jan 30, 2011 1:53:47am |
re: #19 000G
This sounds fishy to me. What, the walls and doors of a maximum security prison are suddenly weakened by the presence of protesters twenty miles away?
Somebody let them go; now anything the plainclothes security forces do can be blamed on the "escapees".
| 30 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:13:47am |
Great news:
urgent : hundreds of judges join the tahrir square protest !
| 31 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:25:30am |
| 32 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:31:11am |
| 33 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:32:53am |
re: #32 000G
Breaking Al Hurra: Egyptian Army: (corrupt NDP thug) Ahmed Ezz & (corrupt) Minister of Interior Habib Al Adly will be tried in court.
Lucky him. 'Morning, all.
| 35 |
Political Atheist Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:58:00am |
| 36 |
ryannon Sun, Jan 30, 2011 4:58:41am |
re: #22 000G
Resigning Minister of Information orders shut-down of Al-Jazeera in Egypt. See [Link: twitter.com...]
Video: guy from .@Jan25voices explains how he tweeted phone calls w/Egyptians after gov't shut down internet.
[Video]
More info from an EU group:
[Link: werebuild.eu...]
And a ComputerWorld article on same:
[Link: www.computerworld.com...]
| 39 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:15:12am |
re: #36 ryannon
More info from an EU group:
[Link: werebuild.eu...]
And a ComputerWorld article on same:
[Link: www.computerworld.com...]
A quote from the comments at the bottom of the second link:
Without Internet, Egyptians find new ways to get online
What People Are Saying
Add new comment
What we need...
Submitted by Anonymous on January 30, 2011 - 05:39.
Why won't someone just nuke these worthless Muslims. They just cause endless problems and social disorders that prevent the economical and intellectual growth of society. People may see this as a racist and hateful comment but it is the truth. Without the Muslims and islams... Wars and terrorism would cease and we would eventually enter the age of a utopian society. No more senseless raping of innocent women, no more suicide bombings, etc...
This guy just needs someone to build him an oven and get the trains running. And that is no Godwin.
| 40 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:16:00am |
| 41 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:22:30am |
| 42 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:23:13am |
@BBCWorld:
We're getting reports of severe shortages in Cairo of gas and bread supplies, with long queues outside bakeries
| 43 |
Political Atheist Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:23:37am |
re: #40 Decatur Deb
Sorry. I hit traffic. :-)
| 44 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:27:57am |
re: #39 Decatur Deb
And to think that people say Nazi comparisons can't be made. Of course the guy is a Nazi.
| 45 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:30:54am |
re: #44 Sergey Romanov
And to think that people say Nazi comparisons can't be made. Of course the guy is a Nazi.
Thought we had finished those shits, and the Bull Connor variant, once and for all. I was sort of young, then.
| 46 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:31:22am |
re: #39 Decatur Deb
The Good will defeat the Evil. Then it will put the Evil on the knees and will savagely kill it.
| 47 |
Political Atheist Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:32:16am |
Tanks into Tahir square... Breaking on MSNBC cable broacast
| 48 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:34:46am |
re: #46 Sergey Romanov
The Good will defeat the Evil. Then it will put the Evil on the knees and will savagely kill it.
Yeah. That's the danger.
| 49 |
ryannon Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:45:54am |
AJ live feed: Muslim Brotherhood organizing, releasing political prisoners and moving into power vacuum...
| 50 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:51:35am |
Morning, you early birds.
I have no doubt that the country is slipping into anarchy.
The Army should be making their presence and desires felt today - and the flying of fighter jets over the square is the opening move.
| 52 |
ryannon Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:51:59am |
AJ: Egyptians are learning how to circumvent telecommunications blackout...
[Link: pastebin.com...]
| 53 |
Political Atheist Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:54:49am |
Breaking on Al Jazeera
Fighter jets making passes over Tahrir square. This comes after reports of helicopters and tanks surrounding the square.
| 55 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:57:46am |
From Pammie's links wandered into some conservative blog with comments like this:
[Link: js-kit.com...]
A.I. - GOOD MORNING.ICUS
Well I wasn't here to really know, but frankly nothing surprises me...
He bowed to Hu, he listens to commie propaganda music, and he has SPUTNIK MOMENTS...
And he is half black...I have yet to meet a non-commie loving black person...
He's an f'n commie if there ever was one...
4 дней назад, 17:21:23
– ОтветитьBabbaZee: The Vinyl Cultessa
AI
Being black does not make you a commie
its like saying smoking dope makes you a commie
Surely I know and have known more black people than you have lol
believe me they were not allllll commmies
he is also half white
what does that make him?
4 дней назад, 17:25:24
– ОтветитьA.I. - GOOD MORNING.ICUS
Well I have met white people that are conservative, not all that many but I have met some...There are plenty of whites that are commie lovers...
But when it comes to conservative blacks, I have yet to meet one...As I said before FROM MY EXPERIENCE I haven't met one black person that was not a commie lover...
4 дней назад, 17:31:10
– ОтветитьBulgarWheat
AI, I have met a tremendous amount of "black" people who were as conservative and most definitely not commies.
You gotta get out more often....
4 дней назад, 17:42:43
– ОтветитьA.I. - GOOD MORNING.ICUS
Ohhh pahlease spare me...
You know damned well that blacks to the high 90th percentiles are commie lovers & RACISTS...
All you need to do is look at:
1) VOTING RECORDS of elected black politicians
2) VOTING RECORDS of black population
3) CONSTANT DEMANDS FOR MORE & MORE HANDOUTS FOR DOING SHIT
No amount of:
"I KNOW ONE BLACK PERSON THAT IS CONSERVATIVE" IS GOING TO MASK THE REALITY...
As for you Bulgar & getting out more...Where the hell do you think I live?!? Iowa?!?
I live in the thick of commieville or have you forgotten?...
I would say YOU SHOULD GET OUT MORE...
4 дней назад, 18:02:54
– Ответить
And:
| 56 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 30, 2011 5:59:27am |
Goddamn pedophiles.
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
US is now prosecuting Americans who go abroad for 'sex tourism' with children.
Good.
| 57 |
Political Atheist Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:01:04am |
Wow the jets making multiple low passes over the square are really loud, trying to intimidate the crowd. I hope this is not a wind up to a big showdown.
| 58 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:02:22am |
re: #57 Rightwingconspirator
Wow the jets making multiple low passes over the square are really loud, trying to intimidate the crowd. I hope this is not a wind up to a big showdown.
On the topic of those flights:
weddady weddady
I seem also to recall that American weaponry sold to #Egypt come with stringent conditions of use: that flight violated US law #Jan25
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Replyweddady weddady
Dude, this is the Internet Generation, having fighter jets overfly them is the wrong way to scare em. #Jan25
| 59 |
BishopX Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:05:40am |
Not to gloat, but I called the military coup on friday.
| 60 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:07:19am |
re: #59 BishopX
Not to gloat, but I called the military coup on friday.
I haven't been around so I need to know is this a coup or is the military cracking down on the protesters?
| 61 |
Political Atheist Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:07:32am |
re: #58 reine.de.tout
The question now-Is the Egyptian AF more willing to back Mubarak than the Army? The jets are angering the crowd, and curfew just started again. Oh boy... This could get really ugly.
| 62 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:10:00am |
re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar
I haven't been around so I need to know is this a coup or is the military cracking down on the protesters?
For me, it's not clear what it means, honestly.
Listening to Al-Jazeera English - the egyptians are frustated, apparently, by what they see as a very tepid and confusing response from the US.
Seriously, I don't know how our officials could be anything but very careful right now, with what they say. It will be interesting to see what Hillary says on the morning shows today.
| 63 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:11:58am |
re: #62 reine.de.tout
For me, it's not clear what it means, honestly.
Listening to Al-Jazeera English - the egyptians are frustated, apparently, by what they see as a very tepid and confusing response from the US.
Seriously, I don't know how our officials could be anything but very careful right now, with what they say. It will be interesting to see what Hillary says on the morning shows today.
"1407 Meanwhile, in Washington, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has spoken of her concern over events in Egypt. According to extracts of interviews given to US TV networks on Sunday, Mr Mubarak's reforms are the "bare beginning" of a much-needed list of reform."
This is very different from what AJ reported Clinton saying or on interpreting her remarks.
That is not helpful, nor honest reporting.
| 64 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:12:27am |
re: #62 reine.de.tout
The ticker on MSNBC said Hillary is headed to Haiti. Not sure if that is still true.
| 65 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:13:21am |
re: #63 Ericus58
"1407 Meanwhile, in Washington, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has spoken of her concern over events in Egypt. According to extracts of interviews given to US TV networks on Sunday, Mr Mubarak's reforms are the "bare beginning" of a much-needed list of reform."
This is very different from what AJ reported Clinton saying or on interpreting her remarks.
That is not helpful, nor honest reporting.
Yes, that's the problem with Al-Jazeera, for sure.
But she's still talking about Mubarek, as if he will regain any sort of control.
| 66 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:13:59am |
re: #64 Cannadian Club Akbar
The ticker on MSNBC said Hillary is headed to Haiti. Not sure if that is still true.
I just saw that! Weird. Too much stuff going on in the world right now. She's got to be exhausted.
| 67 |
ryannon Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:14:17am |
AJ: "You get the eerie feeling that the people (on Tahrir Square are bracing themselves for something big"
| 69 |
BishopX Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:15:10am |
re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar
The military replaced the police Friday night, assumed control of several government buildings(state radio, television, national bank, national museum, presidential palace) and refused to fire into the crowd (unlike the police who killed about 100 people and injured 1,000 on Friday alone). The military was greeted by the crowd in many places, and the military reportedly clashed with the police in some places.
Since then Mubarak as dismissed his entire cabinet, appointed a vice president(from the intelligence) for the first time in 30 years and appointed an Air Force General as the new prime minister. The are also reports up thread about the military arresting the interior minister, who controls the police (who were shooting protesters).
I think it's pretty clear the military is in control right now. The question is what they do with it.
| 70 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:17:53am |
re: #69 BishopX
The military replaced the police Friday night, assumed control of several government buildings(state radio, television, national bank, national museum, presidential palace) and refused to fire into the crowd (unlike the police who killed about 100 people and injured 1,000 on Friday alone). The military was greeted by the crowd in many places, and the military reportedly clashed with the police in some places.
Since then Mubarak as dismissed his entire cabinet, appointed a vice president(from the intelligence) for the first time in 30 years and appointed an Air Force General as the new prime minister. The are also reports up thread about the military arresting the interior minister, who controls the police (who were shooting protesters).
I think it's pretty clear the military is in control right now. The question is what they do with it.
Sounds like they're set up for the Turkish thing--"Democracy Up To a Point".
| 71 |
laZardo Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:19:07am |
re: #69 BishopX
Since then Mubarak as dismissed his entire cabinet, appointed a vice president(from the intelligence) for the first time in 30 years and appointed an Air Force General as the new prime minister. The are also reports up thread about the military arresting the interior minister, who controls the police (who were shooting protesters).
I think it's pretty clear the military is in control right now. The question is what they do with it.
AJE ran a biography of Mubarak earlier. Apparently he was also an Air Force head honcho back in the days of Nasser and Sadat.
| 72 |
BishopX Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:20:59am |
re: #71 laZardo
Yeah, he was Air Force. Every single president since 1952(when the military overthrew the monarchy) has come from the military.
I think Mubarak is playing to the military at this point rather than playing to the people.
| 73 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:22:50am |
"1419 The full quote from Mrs Clinton to Fox News, reported by Reuters: "We want to see an orderly transition so that no one fills a void, that there not be a void, that there be a well thought-out plan that will bring about a democratic participatory government.""
| 74 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:25:25am |
Someone on Al-Jazeera: US administration is being very careful to not be seen as micromanaging events in Egypt.
| 75 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:25:26am |
Talking head on my TV just made 2 good points:
1. American flags aren't being burned.
2. He called this a "bread and butter" revolution.
| 76 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:25:53am |
The MB is reported to be saying that ElBaradei is speaking for the opposition.
He is their man.
| 77 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:26:05am |
Military helicopter continues to hover; but planes are gone, per Al-Jazeera correspondent in the square.
| 78 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:26:21am |
re: #76 Ericus58
The MB is reported to be saying that ElBaradei is speaking for the opposition.
He is their man.
Yep.
| 79 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:34:19am |
"1431 More from Hillary Clinton, who has done the rounds of US Sunday talk shows. "We want to see these reforms and a process of national dialogue begun so that the people of Egypt can see their legitimate concerns addressed," she told ABC."
| 80 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:36:14am |
The helicopter they just showed on MSNBC didn't lok like a military one.
| 81 |
BishopX Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:39:05am |
AJ has a judge on the line...who has joined the protest at tahir square.
| 82 |
BishopX Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:41:19am |
re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar
AJ is reporting it's a residential helicopter...
| 83 |
BishopX Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:43:39am |
And with that I'm heading off to breakfast with the gf. Take care folks.
| 85 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:53:59am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. All eyes remain focused on Egypt as the pressure mounts for Mubarak to step down. His previous actions to install a new cabinet, prime minister, and vice president aren't sufficient. Egyptians want a new government without Mubarak involved.
As bad as the security situation is in Egypt with looters and rioters, it got a whole lot worse as prison riots led to thousands of prisoners being released. Among those numbers were members of Islamic terror groups including Hamas, and Muslim Brotherhood members.
The security situation has led to Shell Oil preparing to pull international staff and their families out of Egypt on Sunday.
Sec. State Clinton is making the Sunday talk show rounds, and she's got to walk a delicate line between support for Mubarak (as a longstanding US ally) and the protesters' legitimate claims for representation and respect of human rights. I think her statements are signaling Mubarak to prepare for his regime's end in an orderly transition.
It's no longer a matter of if. The only question is when.
| 86 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:55:25am |
re: #76 Ericus58
ElBaradei isn't the MB man. I don't think he's even the opposition's guy. He wants to make himself out to be an opposition leader, but he's been outside Egypt for so long that many Egyptians simply don't think he's sufficiently authentic.
| 88 |
laZardo Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:55:46am |
re: #85 lawhawk
I've got an immigration/tax question I'd like to ask you. Could I send you an e-mail about it?
| 89 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 6:59:43am |
re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar
The helicopter they just showed on MSNBC didn't lok like a military one.
Al-Jazeera said it appeared to be from the Presidential fleet.
| 90 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:01:50am |
Egyptian Protests and the Muslim Brotherhood
In a recent Pew poll conducted in Egypt prior to the outbreak of the protests, in response to the question "Do you suppport 'modernizers' or 'Islamists'?", 27% responded that they support modernizers, while 59% supported that they support Islamists. In other telling statistics, 49% of the population has a favorable attitude towards Hamas, 30% said the same for Hezbollah, while one in every 5 Egyptians feels positively towards Al Qaeda. Eighty-four percent of the Egyptian public support the death penalty for a Muslim who changes his religion, 77% support whippings and hands cut off for robbery, and 82% support stoning those who commit adultery. It should be noted
In light of these statistics, to what extent are these protests 'democratic', and to what extent are Muslim Brotherhood leaders and supporters wearing its liberal mask for the enamored western media?
| 91 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:03:13am |
re: #88 laZardo
My email is available through my blog so shoot me an email if you want.
| 92 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:07:21am |
Damn:
1505 After footage of damaged antiquities was shown on al-Jazeera TV, Egyptologist Margaret Maitland, writing on The Eloquent Peasant blog , says she has been studying the evidence: "I've managed to identify a number of the objects shown damaged in the al-Jazeera footage, including statues of Tutankhamun and the mummies of his great-grandparents."
| 93 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:08:30am |
Protests have now broken out in neighboring Sudan.
Sudanese police beat and arrested students on Sunday as protests broke out throughout Khartoum demanding the government resign, inspired by a popular uprising in neighboring Egypt.Hundreds of armed riot police fired tear gas on students demonstrating in central Khartoum and in at least two universities in the capital, which were surrounded by police reinforcements. At one, students hurled stones at police cars.
Police beat students with batons as they chanted anti-government slogans like: "We are ready to die for Sudan" and "Revolution, revolution until victory."
Groups have emerged on social networking sites calling themselves "Youth for Change" and "The Spark," since the uprisings in nearby Tunisia and close ally Egypt this month.
"Youth for Change" has attracted more than 15,000 members.
"The people of Sudan will not remain silent anymore," its Facebook page said. "It is about time we demand our rights and take what's ours in a peaceful demonstration that will not involve any acts of sabotage."
| 94 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:09:25am |
re: #86 lawhawk
ElBaradei isn't the MB man. I don't think he's even the opposition's guy. He wants to make himself out to be an opposition leader, but he's been outside Egypt for so long that many Egyptians simply don't think he's sufficiently authentic.
Perhaps. But the MB has stated they are behind him for the moment. (Reuters tweet.
| 95 |
Romantic Heretic Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:12:39am |
re: #46 Sergey Romanov
The Good will defeat the Evil. Then it will put the Evil on the knees and will savagely kill it.
A little Nietzsche on the subject.
Beware when you battle monsters,
lest you become a monster.
And as you gaze into the abyss,
the abyss gazes also,
into you.
| 96 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:12:48am |
El baradei on with zakaria on CNN right now ... I say "no way" to that guy ... And CNN had their own analyst on before and said the mb has no political clout in Egypt ... I was flabbergasted when he said that.
| 97 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:12:58am |
Indeed, at the moment the MB is willing to have ElB represent the opposition and be the front man. No, over the long run.... we'll see.
"1507 A new comment from opposition politician Mohamed ElBaradei, reported by the AFP news agency: The US is "losing credibility by the day" by support the Mubarak regime, the former UN nuclear chief says."
With statements like this, he's sure ingratiating himself to those who dislike/hate the U.S.
| 100 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:14:20am |
re: #97 Ericus58
Indeed, at the moment the MB is willing to have ElB represent the opposition and be the front man. No, over the long run... we'll see.
"1507 A new comment from opposition politician Mohamed ElBaradei, reported by the AFP news agency: The US is "losing credibility by the day" by support the Mubarak regime, the former UN nuclear chief says."
With statements like this, he's sure ingratiating himself to those who dislike/hate the U.S.
ElB has never been a fan of the US to begin with. He's just reinforcing his anti US bona fides.
| 101 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:14:45am |
re: #97 Ericus58
Indeed, at the moment the MB is willing to have ElB represent the opposition and be the front man. No, over the long run... we'll see.
"1507 A new comment from opposition politician Mohamed ElBaradei, reported by the AFP news agency: The US is "losing credibility by the day" by support the Mubarak regime, the former UN nuclear chief says."
With statements like this, he's sure ingratiating himself to those who dislike/hate the U.S.
Word ...
| 103 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:14:53am |
re: #100 researchok
ElB has never been a fan of the US to begin with. He's just reinforcing his anti US bona fides.
Heh - he's gettin' his "street Cred" on
| 104 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:16:17am |
re: #100 researchok
ElB has never been a fan of the US to begin with. He's just reinforcing his anti US bona fides.
true dat
Are you ready for the ice storm coming tuesday?
| 105 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:16:35am |
re: #96 _RememberTonyC
El baradei on with zakaria on CNN right now ... I say "no way" to that guy ... And CNN had their own analyst on before and said the mb has no political clout in Egypt ... I was flabbergasted when he said that.
The word your looking for is 'denial'.
| 106 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:17:19am |
| 107 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:17:19am |
One thing I hope is that after 30 years of interaction, the Egyptian people feel they gained something from their relationship with Israel.
| 108 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:17:37am |
Leading Tunisian Islamist has returned after 22 years in exile to big crowds, but it's not clear whether the Islamists will be able to exert control:
Ghannouchi has lived in London since he was exiled in 1989 by president Zine al-Abdine Ben Ali, who was toppled on Jan. 14 by popular protests that have sent political tremors across the Arab world."Our role will be to participate in realizing the goals of this peaceful revolution: To anchor a democratic system, social justice and to put a limit to discrimination against banned groups," Ghannouchi told Reuters a day before his return.
"The dictator has fallen and I want to be in the country," he said.
However, the Islamists did not appear to be a leading force in the wave of protests that toppled Ben Ali. It has yet to be seen whether Ghannouchi's return can galvanize the party.
Ghannouchi is not to be confused with the Prime Minister of the same last name.
| 109 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:18:29am |
re: #104 HoosierHoops
true dat
Are you ready for the ice storm coming tuesday?
Actually, I'm in the South.
Won't be too bad, mostly rain.
Famous last words.
| 110 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:18:31am |
| 111 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:18:55am |
| 113 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:20:54am |
Hmmm - today was the first time the Egyptian Army rolled out the M-1 MBT's they have. Up to now, it's only been the much older M-60's and APC's.
| 114 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:21:38am |
President Obama likes to never waste a crisis, so now can be his time to use one. Whatever reform he calls for in Egypt must be coupled with similar action towards Iran. He has the moral authority to do it ... And do it he must. Because if we lose Egypt and Jordan, we need to have a big win somewhere. He can get one if he chooses wisely.
| 115 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:22:36am |
re: #112 laZardo
If he does achieve the position of being a powerbroker in the transition/establishment of a new government - that would be very worrying to not just the U.S. but especially with Israel.
| 116 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:23:59am |
re: #109 researchok
Actually, I'm in the South.
Won't be too bad, mostly rain.
Famous last words.
I transfered to Oklahoma.. I'm now a Sooner
| 117 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:24:43am |
| 118 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:26:10am |
re: #108 lawhawk
Leading Tunisian Islamist has returned after 22 years in exile to big crowds, but it's not clear whether the Islamists will be able to exert control:
Ghannouchi is not to be confused with the Prime Minister of the same last name.
Remember this: Religion is appealing because it offers magical solutions for very little commitment and even less effort. Populations will approve of religious regimes if the promises are grand enough.
Of course, when those promises of a better life don't materialize , religious regimes will blame the lack of sincerity or belief, followed by even grander promises if only religious belief is strengthened.
Entire populations have been held hostage that way. That is why religions are coopted by so many tyrannical regimes. In fact, religious leaders and preachers are even employed and paid by those very regimes.
Conflict of interest, you might say.
| 119 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:27:30am |
re: #116 HoosierHoops
I transfered to Oklahoma.. I'm now a Sooner
Good steak down there. I was in Tulsa years ago and had one of the best steaks in my life in a place near Owasso(?)
| 120 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:29:06am |
Celts/Lakers 3:30pm ET on ABC ... Kid's hoop game is early and chores will be done ... Be there aloha ...
| 121 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:30:52am |
Does anyone believe this:
SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
El Baradei on CNN "(The Muslim Brotherhood agree) that the state in no way will be a state based on religion" (there was poor sound)
Killgore called it, I think.
The MB is keeping as low a profile as possible. Why is ElbBaradei speaking for them?
| 122 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:30:58am |
Live reporting on AJ has a man relaying some of the chants being shouted in the Square... an anti-Iraeli sentiment is becoming more pronounced.
| 124 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:32:56am |
re: #114 _RememberTonyC
Iran is a completely different animal where the US simply lacks any leverage. And the US has to walk a fine line because Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan are US allies. Can't just go in there demanding stuff left and right without having unintended consequences that complicate matters even further.
Still, the President has said that the region's countries have to provide better protections for human rights and give more political and social freedoms.
| 125 |
laZardo Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:33:39am |
re: #121 reine.de.tout
The MB is keeping as low a profile as possible. Why is ElbBaradei speaking for them?
From what I'm reading, they have been active at forming the citizens protection committees and giving out food and aid to protesters. They're not out shouting slogans in the streets, but they do want the grateful protesters to know who to turn to when push comes to shoot.
| 126 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:33:54am |
re: #114 _RememberTonyC
President Obama likes to never waste a crisis, so now can be his time to use one. Whatever reform he calls for in Egypt must be coupled with similar action towards Iran. He has the moral authority to do it ... And do it he must. Because if we lose Egypt and Jordan, we need to have a big win somewhere. He can get one if he chooses wisely.
It's all a crap shoot at this point.
Remember, Mubarak is the military.
Whatever privileges they have (and they are plenty) is because of Mubarak. I'm not so sure the military will give up their special status so easily or willingly.
| 127 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:35:44am |
re: #121 reine.de.tout
Does anyone believe this:
Killgore called it, I think.
The MB is keeping as low a profile as possible. Why is ElbBaradei speaking for them?
Hand washing.
They're tying to cut a deal.
As for the MB, that is all talk, The entire raison d'etre of the MB is to install a religious regime.
| 128 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:36:29am |
re: #122 Ericus58
Live reporting on AJ has a man relaying some of the chants being shouted in the Square... an anti-Iraeli sentiment is becoming more pronounced.
Shocking.
//
| 129 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:39:26am |
re: #124 lawhawk
Iran is a completely different animal where the US simply lacks any leverage. And the US has to walk a fine line because Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan are US allies. Can't just go in there demanding stuff left and right without having unintended consequences that complicate matters even further.
Still, the President has said that the region's countries have to provide better protections for human rights and give more political and social freedoms.
For sure ... I am not saying to dictate, i am saying to be balanced and use his moral authority to hammer Iran diplomatically in the media. He needs a big "win" if we lose two allies. This is supposed to be his strength ... He needs to use it really soon. Maybe the KSA will step up to help ... But I won't hold my breath. So the Prez needs to step up ... I think he will.
| 130 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:40:20am |
| 131 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:41:46am |
re: #121 reine.de.tout
Does anyone believe this:
Killgore called it, I think.
The MB is keeping as low a profile as possible. Why is ElbBaradei speaking for them?
Because he IS one of them ...
| 132 |
laZardo Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:47:16am |
Jordanian opinion cartoons on the Egyptian protests.
Nothing particularly offensive, the last one even uses the falling Saddam statue as a reference. But I suspect that they've filtered out some of the more "provocative" ones.
| 133 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:50:00am |
re: #126 researchok
It's all a crap shoot at this point.
Remember, Mubarak is the military.
Whatever privileges they have (and they are plenty) is because of Mubarak. I'm not so sure the military will give up their special status so easily or willingly.
We hear a lot about the military in places like Egypt and turkey. In the current climate, are they going to hold off the islamists? Unless the islamists LOSE somewhere, they will be seen as the strong horse who must be followed. That is why we need something to happen in Iran. I hope we have helped the iranian dissidents in some way ...
| 134 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:53:05am |
| 135 |
Talking Point Detective Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:53:49am |
re: #55 Sergey Romanov
From Pammie's links wandered into some conservative blog with comments like this
Just for nostalgia's sake, I have a couple of gems from when the Dow went down after Obama first took office:
From Michell Malkin's site:
On March 2nd, 2009 at 10:09 am, WarTip said:
... the only thing I think is worth investing in at present would be gold, guns, ammo and maybe some really isolated property.
---On March 2nd, 2009 at 10:13 am, tarpon said:
The Acting President Obama is so enamored with his jive talk act that he will never shut up. I believe it is on purpose, to do a Hugo Chavez “President for Life” trick on America. Keep your eyes open America.
---Yes, Obama’s socialist policies continue to destroy the stock market.
Again, Rush was right and predicted that Obama’s policies would fail.
Yet again, clueless Republicans, like Steele and Cantor, are criticizing Rush for not being nice enough to the Messiah, and at the same time they are not criticizing nearly enough Obama’s policies that are causing this economic disaster. We need some real Republican leadership.
---On March 2nd, 2009 at 10:33 am, Ed Mahmoud abu al-Kahoul said:
I think it was in ‘American Thinker’ that I read about a possible clinical disorder with B Hussein Obama.
BHO, thanks to abandonment by his father as an infant, abandonment by his mother before he was 10 years old, identity confusion being mixed race as a teen, has probably developed a narcissistic personality disorder.
He has extreme difficulty feeling empathy for ‘ordinary people’. He feels entitled.
Add to that the fact his grandfather, probably more than a little left of center himself, chose Frank Marshall Davis, member of the Communist Party USA and an admitted [molester] of teenage girls as his mentor because young Obama ‘needed’ a Black father figure, and Obama’s mentors later included the actual students of Saul Alinsky, as well as Edward Said and William Ayers, and it would seem the ingredients are there for a Pol Pot or Josef Stalin type Marxist sociopath dictator.
---Do you still think his strategy is to FIX the financial market and our economy? No he isn’t dumb. So when his actions don’t match the stated goal, why are folks still criticizing his actions? Why are they not looking at his REAL goals? He has no interest in fixing anything. No interest in free markets or life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He want to run the show, his show, his way. A socialist, forcing socialism on us, with socialist strategies. All his “fixes” are smoke and mirrors, a magician’s distraction, so that we won’t look at or see what is really going on and what the real goals are.
Here's a nice excerpt from the blog "rightpundits."
As of today’s close, Obama has overseen the worst stock market performance in the history of America for a new president. It’s an unprecedented 28% drop from Obama’s election to today. If you don’t believe my numbers, you can check the historical data here.
[...] as ANY economist will tell you, capital markets are forward-looking. The Dow Jones Industrial Average usually rises and falls based on expectations of what will happen, not based on what’s happening right now. ... The stock market is collapsing now in anticipation of the fact that Obama’s plan will be ineffectual.
[....] Investors so far are unequivocal in their opinion of Obama. They have zero confidence in him, as we further report on here. If investors had any confidence in Obama’s vision of the future, they would be buying stock right now instead of heading for the hills.
Be Afraid. Be Very Very Very Afraid.
| 136 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:53:56am |
re: #133 _RememberTonyC
We hear a lot about the military in places like Egypt and turkey. In the current climate, are they going to hold off the islamists? Unless the islamists LOSE somewhere, they will be seen as the strong horse who must be followed. That is why we need something to happen in Iran. I hope we have helped the iranian dissidents in some way ...
All true- but dissidents in Iran have (at this point) no chance to make any changes.
| 137 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:58:55am |
| 138 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Jan 30, 2011 7:59:50am |
re: #136 researchok
All true- but dissidents in Iran have (at this point) no chance to make any changes.
They need to know we will be in their corner ... They may not believe we are ...
| 140 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:01:03am |
If ElBo does take power, I think there is at least a chance it won't end up as a catastrophe.
| 141 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:01:39am |
Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau
They're still broadcasting live ....
[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]
| 142 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:02:44am |
Muslim Brotherhood has appointed ElBAradie as the interim President.
| 143 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:03:08am |
Breaking News:
ElB has been recognized by all the opposition groups as being their Leader.
He is being taken to the main Square in Cairo.
| 144 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:04:39am |
"1558 Much is now expected of Mohamed ElBaradei from some of the protesters. A BBC Arabic correspondent, Assad el-Sawy, is now reporting that Mr ElBaradei is on his way to Liberation Square, where he is scheduled to address the protesters."
| 145 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:07:21am |
Meanwhile, Harpy calls Obama a "quisling President".
| 146 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:07:22am |
re: #142 Killgore Trout
Jerusalem Post confirms; [Link: www.jpost.com...]
| 147 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:09:07am |
I think that it can be said that ElB is the MB's man...
| 148 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:09:08am |
re: #145 Sergey Romanov
the free dictionary on quisling [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]
| 149 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:11:17am |
re: #147 Ericus58
Why? Their current support doesn't give such a reason. Anything else?
| 150 |
darthstar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:13:32am |
re: #149 Sergey Romanov
Why? Their current support doesn't give such a reason. Anything else?
If he wasn't chosen by America, then he needs to be marginalized and ostracized until he proves himself a worthy ally who will keep the oil flowing.
| 151 |
dragonfire1981 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:14:56am |
My wife and I have begun putting together an emergency survival kit for severe weather and other crises (god forbid what is happening in Egypt starts happening here). It's a smart idea for anyone. You can never go wrong by being prepared.
| 152 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:15:08am |
It's not much of a secret who's calling the shots....
Muslim Brotherhood throws support behind ElBaradei
Opposition figure calls on Mubarak to "leave today," calling it "non-negotiable for every Egyptian"; banned Islamic opposition party, other groups give ElBaradei mandate to negotiate unity government.
| 153 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:16:24am |
re: #149 Sergey Romanov
Why? Their current support doesn't give such a reason. Anything else?
Why are you questioning the flow of events?
| 154 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:18:33am |
| 155 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:20:31am |
re: #149 Sergey Romanov
Why? Their current support doesn't give such a reason. Anything else?
Elbaradei is a front man. If the Muslim Brotherhood were to declare itself the new leaders the international community would start moving to stop the revolution and back Mubarak. They need to lay low until things are over. They are strong enough to take Egypt if they want to. Let's hope they don't want to.
| 156 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:20:31am |
re: #154 Sergey Romanov
Uh. What?
You're making a claim that ElB isn't being supported by the BM.
That's just not the fact.
Now if you want to discuss if ElB can maintain a leadership role with the MB's backing down the road, we can speculate.
| 157 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:21:22am |
I think it's rather obvious that MB throwing support behind ElBo doesn't mean that he is "one of them" or "their man". He may or may not become such as time goes on, but currently? Where's the evidence?
| 158 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:21:59am |
re: #157 Sergey Romanov
I think it's rather obvious that MB throwing support behind ElBo doesn't mean that he is "one of them" or "their man". He may or may not become such as time goes on, but currently? Where's the evidence?
I'm going with Killgore's "take" on it:
re: #155 Killgore Trout
Elbaradei is a front man. If the Muslim Brotherhood were to declare itself the new leaders the international community would start moving to stop the revolution and back Mubarak. They need to lay low until things are over. They are strong enough to take Egypt if they want to. Let's hope they don't want to.
| 159 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:22:37am |
re: #157 Sergey Romanov
I think it's rather obvious that MB throwing support behind ElBo doesn't mean that he is "one of them" or "their man". He may or may not become such as time goes on, but currently? Where's the evidence?
He made statements supporting the MB when he first arrived in Egypt. He was probably invited to return by them.
| 160 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:22:46am |
re: #156 Ericus58
You're making a claim that ElB isn't being supported by the BM.
That's just not the fact.
Now if you want to discuss if ElB can maintain a leadership role with the MB's backing down the road, we can speculate.
When did I claim that ElBo is not being supported by MB? I'm claiming there's no evidence that he is "one of them". If by your "he is their man" you meant merely support, I apologize for misunderstanding.
| 161 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:23:03am |
Hell, I need to leave now, just as things seem to be happening.
damn.
| 163 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:23:43am |
re: #159 Killgore Trout
He made statements supporting the MB when he first arrived in Egypt. He was probably invited to return by them.
He sure chose the exact right time to return.
There was something going on behind the scenes as this stuff started percolating.
| 164 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:23:53am |
Oh well, speculate away. ;)
| 166 |
compound idaho Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:25:02am |
MB is the military's man, but he is now toast. The military should step in, exile MB, announce a date for elections and then carry them out in a free and fair way. They US should accept the will of the people of Egypt. The military would not end up ruling the country, but they would be viewed as heroes by the people of Egypt and hopefully take their proper place in a civil society. Every county should have a George Washington
George Bush pushed over the first domino in Iraq. We have invested over 4,000 lives in this whole democracy thing in the ME. We either believe democracy is the best way for a people to govern their affairs or not. Now is not the time to lose our nerve.
| 167 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:26:44am |
re: #166 compound idaho
I'm really confused by this part of the narrative.
Iraq became a 'democracy', but it has enshrined Sharia law in its constitution.
Now, we are very worried about the Muslim Brotherhood taking over in Egypt and enshrining Sharia law.
So how was Iraq the first domino?
| 168 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:27:02am |
re: #163 reine.de.tout
He sure chose the exact right time to return.
There was something going on behind the scenes as this stuff started percolating.
Yeah, he showed up pretty quick. He probably had a heads up that this was going to happen.
I've also been wondering exactly how spontaneous Egypt and Tunisia uprisings. Could the Muslim Brotherhood have orchestrated these events through careful planing? I'm not sure if that's a reasonable speculation but I'm starting to wonder.
| 169 |
darthstar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:27:21am |
re: #157 Sergey Romanov
I think it's rather obvious that MB throwing support behind ElBo doesn't mean that he is "one of them" or "their man". He may or may not become such as time goes on, but currently? Where's the evidence?
We know he is an activist who has called for democratic changes in Egypt. His inclusiveness includes the MB, but that doesn't make him "their man", I agree...
| 170 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:27:58am |
re: #168 Killgore Trout
I don't think that's very likely. The dude who set himself on fire, and food prices-- that's not something orchestratable.
I do think they're position to capitalize on it, of course.
| 171 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:28:31am |
re: #169 darthstar
Yep. Knowing that he won't get it without at least some support from MB and acting on this knowledge doesn't in itself make him an MB stooge (although he may become just that, of course).
| 172 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:31:32am |
re: #171 Sergey Romanov
Yep. Knowing that he won't get it without at least some support from MB and acting on this knowledge doesn't in itself make him an MB stooge (although he may become just that, of course).
I actually look at him as being the MB's "pigeon".
| 173 |
darthstar Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:31:41am |
re: #171 Sergey Romanov
Yep. Knowing that he won't get it without at least some support from MB and acting on this knowledge doesn't in itself make him an MB stooge (although he may become just that, of course).
I prefer to sit back and absorb what's going on for a while before deciding who is and isn't a stooge. The desire to speculate and wave a given flag is a tough one to resist, but people who do that often do pick up a nice collection of flags.
| 174 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:32:35am |
re: #170 Obdicut
I don't think that's very likely. The dude who set himself on fire, and food prices-- that's not something orchestratable.
I do think they're position to capitalize on it, of course.
Agreed. I don't think they completely manufactured the situation but maybe they had a plan in place to exploit unrest and take advantage of the situation as it unfolded.
If they do have a working and successful gameplan they could start implementing it in other countries where they have foothold.
| 175 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:33:04am |
re: #172 Ericus58
I don't get the reference. Something of a thin edge of the wedge? Camel's nose in tent?
| 177 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:33:32am |
More Egyptian Forces Move In as Curfew Passes
The Egyptian military strongly reinforced parts of the capital on Sunday, and black-clad security forces were seen moving through the streets for the first time in a day as a street uprising ran into its sixth day and thousands of protesters again flooded Cairo’s city center in defiance of a curfew.Military jet fighters and helicopters, some bearing the presidential seal, flew low over the center of the city in a show of strength, and soldiers fired shots into the air in an effort to control the crowd. But tens of thousands remained as the sun began to set, chanting defiantly for the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak.
| 178 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:33:53am |
Aha, "A person who is a target or victim of a confidence game".
| 179 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:34:52am |
One week ago, ElB was a nobody on the Egyptian political front.
Tonight in Egypt, he has emerged as the "face" of the opposition.
Without the MB's support, this would never have happened.
Obviously, they feel they can and will have influence over him and participate in the next government to be formed.
| 180 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:35:59am |
re: #179 Ericus58
Well, one week ago, anyone but Mubarak was a nobody on the Egyptian political front.
| 181 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:36:10am |
re: #175 Sergey Romanov
I don't get the reference. Something of a thin edge of the wedge? Camel's nose in tent?
The MB is the "cat" - ElB is the "pigeon".
| 183 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:37:49am |
I believe that ElB has the notion that he could be a fact to garner enough foreign support (i.e. aid money) to make him an active player on the political scene.
| 184 |
Romantic Heretic Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:38:11am |
re: #166 compound idaho
MB is the military's man, but he is now toast. The military should step in, exile MB, announce a date for elections and then carry them out in a free and fair way. They US should accept the will of the people of Egypt. The military would not end up ruling the country, but they would be viewed as heroes by the people of Egypt and hopefully take their proper place in a civil society. Every county should have a George Washington
George Bush pushed over the first domino in Iraq. We have invested over 4,000 lives in this whole democracy thing in the ME. We either believe democracy is the best way for a people to govern their affairs or not. Now is not the time to lose our nerve.
The Bush administration did not invade Iraq to install democracy. They invaded it to send a message to the rest of the world. That message was, "International law is over. We are in charge and this is what happens to those who get in our way. We go where we want, when we want and do what we want. Oderint dum metuant. Let them hate so long as they fear." They intended to install a Pax Americana.
Richard Perle laid this policy out in The Guardian very nicely.
| 186 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:38:46am |
re: #183 ralphieboy
I believe that ElB has the notion that he could be a fact to garner enough foreign support (i.e. aid money) to make him an active player on the political scene.
Rand Paul would never allow that!!
| 187 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:38:53am |
re: #179 Ericus58
Are you sure?
[Link: www.tehrantimes.com...]
Opposition groups in Egypt are trying to persuade International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei to run in the country’s next presidential election in an effort to prevent the re-election of incumbent President Hosni Mubarak.
| 188 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:40:19am |
re: #187 Sergey Romanov
That's 2009, BTW.
| 189 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:42:56am |
Muslim Brotherhood moves to form Egypt unity gov't without Mubarak
Opposition group says excludes reigning President's National Democratic Party from talks; Mohammed ElBaradei: I have been mandated by the people.
| 190 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:45:06am |
| 191 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:47:41am |
re: #189 researchok
Muslim Brotherhood moves to form Egypt unity gov't without Mubarak
The group is also demanding an end to the draconian Emergency Laws, which grant police wide-ranging powers The laws have been used often to arrest and harass the Islamist group.
| 192 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:47:43am |
re: #187 Sergey Romanov
Are you sure?
[Link: www.tehrantimes.com...]
Until a few days ago, he hadn't positioned himself - announced that he was indeed to be considered a viable alternative to Mubarak - and could not have been taken as credible as now.
I find it fascinating that he has risen to such prominence in a very short time to represent all the opposition.
And quite truthfully, I do not see this as being a positive development for Israel, the Peace agreements, the flow of armaments into Gaza, the ability of Israeli Navy ships being able to transit the Suez....
From a standpoint of a recognizable face on the world stage the opposition could have used... I think the options were limited.
I hope that the people of Egypt end up with the Government and political process they will now transit to will be in their best interests and in the interests of peace.
| 193 |
zora Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:47:57am |
re: #186 Decatur Deb
Rand Paul would never allow that!!
Interviewer Wolf Blitzer then asked about foreign assistance, asking if he wanted to end “all foreign aid.” Paul said yes, and Blitzer asked him about aid to Israel.“Well, I think what you have to do is you have to look,” Paul said. “When you send foreign aid, you actually [send] quite a bit to Israel’s enemies. Islamic nations around Israel get quite a bit of foreign aid, too.
“You have to ask yourself, are we funding an arms race on both sides? I have a lot of sympathy and respect for Israel as a democratic nation, as a, you know, a fountain of peace and a fountain of democracy within the Middle East.”
Blitzer pressed, “End all foreign aid including the foreign aid to Israel as well. Is that right?” he asked.
Paul answered, “Yes.”
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]
rand paul invoking the mbf.
| 194 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:49:29am |
re: #135 Talking Point Detective
From your excerpts:
As of today’s close, Obama has overseen the worst stock market performance in the history of America for a new president. It’s an unprecedented 28% drop from Obama’s election to today. If you don’t believe my numbers, you can check the historical data here.
Actually, I did check those numbers. Obama was elected November 5, 2008.
Dow Jones Industrial Average ( DJIA ) Close - 9139.27 Down 486
Nasdaq Stock Market Close - 1682 Down 98
S&P 500 Close - 953 Down 53
Today?
S&P 500 1,276.34 -23.20 -1.79%
S&P 100 575.64 -10.08 -1.72%
DJIA 11,823.70 -166.13 -1.39%
NASDAQ 2,686.89 -68.39 -2.48%
Not a single one of those indicators is down, and certainly isn't down from when Obama was elected.
The only way this guy's comments are remotely close is if you look at the market peaks, which occurred in 2007, when the DJIA broke 14,000.
| 195 |
zora Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:51:51am |
re: #190 Fozzie Bear
also an interesting read...
Romancing the Stone-Cold Killer: Ayn Rand and William Hickman
[Link: www.michaelprescott.net...]
| 196 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:54:31am |
re: #190 Fozzie Bear
A good read. "The Bible of Assholes", ha! Seems like Rand had a precursor in Marquis de'Sade.
| 197 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:58:03am |
At the Rand celebration he spoke at in 2005, Ryan invoked the central theme of Rand’s writings when he told his audience that, “Almost every fight we are involved in here on Capitol Hill … is a fight that usually comes down to one conflict–individualism versus collectivism.”
Yeah, like a woman's right to control her body or the collective's "right" to take this right away. Do they not hear themselves?
| 198 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:58:19am |
re: #194 lawhawk
From your excerpts:
Actually, I did check those numbers. Obama was elected November 5, 2008.
Dow Jones Industrial Average ( DJIA ) Close - 9139.27 Down 486
Nasdaq Stock Market Close - 1682 Down 98
S&P 500 Close - 953 Down 53Today?
S&P 500 1,276.34 -23.20 -1.79%
S&P 100 575.64 -10.08 -1.72%
DJIA 11,823.70 -166.13 -1.39%
NASDAQ 2,686.89 -68.39 -2.48%Not a single one of those indicators is down, and certainly isn't down from when Obama was elected.
The only way this guy's comments are remotely close is if you look at the market peaks, which occurred in 2007, when the DJIA broke 14,000.
Again, with the facts.
| 199 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 8:59:07am |
I'm seeing a much larger observance of call's to prayer in the Square tonight than the previous nights.
| 200 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:02:01am |
re: #199 Ericus58
To hear the word of peace or of the Muslim Brotherhood.
| 201 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:06:13am |
re: #196 Sergey Romanov
A good read. "The Bible of Assholes", ha! Seems like Rand had a precursor in Marquis de'Sade.
I owe a lot to "The Fountainhead". It saved me from reading "Atlas Shrugged".
| 202 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:08:17am |
As usual it's all about the Jews...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
| 203 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:08:57am |
The two individuals talking on AJ have both refereed to ElB as a "figurehead".
heh.
| 205 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:10:38am |
re: #202 Killgore Trout
As usual it's all about the Jews...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
Anyone who didn't see this coming raise your hand so we know who to make fun of....
| 206 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:11:26am |
re: #202 Killgore Trout
You expected something different?
| 208 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:12:36am |
Key European Leaders Urge Restraint in Cairo
With the European Union yet to form a common response to the mass demonstrations in the Arab world, leaders of three of its diplomatic heavyweights appealed for free and fair elections in Egypt over the weekend.
The three — Prime Minister David Cameron, President Nicolas Sarkozy of France and Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany — fell short of calling for the resignation of President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, despite the protests against him on the streets, and cited his modulated approach to the region.
“We are deeply concerned about the events that we are witnessing in Egypt,” the three leaders wrote in a statement. “We recognize the moderating role President Mubarak has played over many years in the Middle East. We now urge him to show the same moderation in addressing the current situation in Egypt.”
| 209 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:14:24am |
| 211 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:19:54am |
Al jaz reporting that the Muslim Brotherhood politicians are taking control of protests in Alexandria.
| 212 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:24:19am |
re: #209 Decatur Deb
Berlusconi Cautions Against Threats to Belly-dancer Supply.
That will go down as classic sarcastic humor. The French paper Liberation was covering the almost daily unfolding of Berlusconi's problems. In France, the outrage is not so much about the girls, but the tax payers money that may have been wasted.
All he had to do was share.
| 213 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:25:05am |
re: #202 Killgore Trout
As usual it's all about the Jews...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you!
| 214 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:25:31am |
re: #211 Killgore Trout
Al jaz reporting that the Muslim Brotherhood politicians are taking control of protests in Alexandria.
This isn't over yet but I hope it doesn't play out like it's looking...
| 215 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:27:42am |
re: #212 Walter L. Newton
That will go down as classic sarcastic humor. The French paper Liberation was covering the almost daily unfolding of Berlusconi's problems. In France, the outrage is not so much about the girls, but the tax payers money that may have been wasted.
All he had to do was share.
He's a clown embarrassing a place I really like. (He's getting support from the rest of the clown corps.)
| 216 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:28:47am |
With a high certainty of a Leadership change in Egypt - you can expect that Hamas has taken notice. Their position with Israel will harden. Attacks will increase. Peace will not be possible.
And what of Jordan? There is a sizable portion of the population that are very against having peace with Israel. Will their influence increase?
With Lebanon becoming more firmly under the influence of Hezbollah - and by proxy Iran - there will not be peace on Israel's northern border.
The PA also will become less inclined to hold serious peace talks with Israel. Expect the West Bank to also become restless.
Mubarak has allowed a much worse ME situation to develop. His Ego and efforts to control politics without addressing the wants and needs of the average Egyptian has made this a much more dangerous situation.
I hope that sane and secular rule comes to Egypt. If not, then there will not be peace but war.
| 217 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:31:15am |
And Yemen is also acting up.
Yemeni Crickets!
| 218 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:31:46am |
re: #215 Decatur Deb
He's a clown embarrassing a place I really like. (He's getting support from the rest of the clown corps.)
It's a bit like having Charlie Sheen in charge. How much fun would that be!
| 219 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:32:23am |
re: #214 RogueOne
This isn't over yet but I hope it doesn't play out like it's looking...
The Al Jaz discussion of the Muslim Brotherhood is very enlightening. I think an MB takeover is likely.
| 220 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:33:41am |
re: #216 Ericus58
With a high certainty of a Leadership change in Egypt - you can expect that Hamas has taken notice. Their position with Israel will harden. Attacks will increase. Peace will not be possible.
And what of Jordan? There is a sizable portion of the population that are very against having peace with Israel. Will their influence increase?
With Lebanon becoming more firmly under the influence of Hezbollah - and by proxy Iran - there will not be peace on Israel's northern border.
The PA also will become less inclined to hold serious peace talks with Israel. Expect the West Bank to also become restless.
Mubarak has allowed a much worse ME situation to develop. His Ego and efforts to control politics without addressing the wants and needs of the average Egyptian has made this a much more dangerous situation.
I hope that sane and secular rule comes to Egypt. If not, then there will not be peace but war.
Peace with Hamas has never been possible- by their own admission.
| 221 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34:01am |
re: #218 RogueOne
It's a bit like having Charlie Sheen in charge. How much fun would that be!
It would be amusing for a morning--I never complain when the Repubs dump on Clinton's blue dress problem. He brought it on himself.
| 222 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34:47am |
re: #219 Killgore Trout
The Al Jaz discussion of the Muslim Brotherhood is very enlightening. I think an MB takeover is likely.
They are the only Egyptian opposition that is organized.
| 223 |
Buck Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:34:58am |
I suspect the lesson ME dictators are going to learn from this week is not to give more freedom to their people, but to crack down harder and sooner.
If you want to hang on to power would you follow the way Egypt handled things, or Iran?
| 224 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:35:17am |
re: #215 Decatur Deb
He's a clown embarrassing a place I really like. (He's getting support from the rest of the clown corps.)
Head line... in front of me (Wed.) Mercredi 19 Janvier 2011...
Berlusconi ébranlé par Ruby (Berlusconi shaken by Ruby)... and a rather LARGE cheesecake picture of the underage prostitute.
| 225 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:36:05am |
re: #202 Killgore Trout
As usual it's all about the Jews...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: angryarab.blogspot.com...]
| 226 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:36:53am |
| 227 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:39:55am |
re: #225 Sergey Romanov
[Link: angryarab.blogspot.com...]
"The future of Israel is very very bleak--and deservedly so. That state would be extinguished, sooner or later, and only then can Jews, Muslims, Christians, and atheists live in peace in the holy land."
Exactly how will any Jews be able to live in peace in the "Holy Land" after they've been "extinguished"?
It's not about the State of Israel, but of the Jews themselves to these haters.
| 228 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:40:04am |
re: #225 Sergey Romanov
[Link: angryarab.blogspot.com...]
Yeah, that' a problem with democracy in the Muslim World. That's a pretty common attitude. I'm not so much worried about them destroying Israel but a lot of Muslims in Egypt are going to die trying. They are so eager to bring war and devastation upon themselves.
| 229 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:40:18am |
As'ad AbuKhalil Arabic: أسعد أبو خليل (born March 16, 1960) is a Lebanese-American professor of political science at California State University, Stanislaus and visiting professor at University of California, Berkeley....
AbuKhalil describes himself as "a former Marxist-Leninist, now an anarchist",[5] a feminist, and an "atheist secularist".[6]
| 230 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:40:36am |
re: #222 researchok
They are the only Egyptian opposition that is organized.
This is what happens when an oppressive regime is in power over a long period of time: moderate opposition is suppressed or co-opted, only the extremists remain as an alternative.
| 231 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:42:32am |
re: #229 Sergey Romanov
LOL, what a salad of beliefs.
I hope he used a nice mellow house dressing so as not to overwhelm the many flavors in that bowl.
| 232 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:44:07am |
re: #229 Sergey Romanov
Because Islamic countries are all about feminism and atheistic secularism.
| 233 |
PhillyPretzel Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:44:31am |
re: #231 Ericus58
How about Italian with pepper flakes? ;)
| 234 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:47:17am |
Egyptian museum
You may now expect tons of articles about the Egyptian museum. The White Man really cares about the museum. They will write more articles about the damage to two Egyptian mummies than to the scores of people killed and injured by a regime sponsored by the US.
Posted by As'ad at 9:15 AM Email This
LOL, Arabs are "white".
| 236 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:48:43am |
re: #234 Sergey Romanov
LOL, Arabs are "white".
I remember a major scandal in Egypt when a black actor portrayed the late Anwar Sadat in an American television mini-series. They were terribly offended.
| 237 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:50:45am |
re: #219 Killgore Trout
The Al Jaz discussion of the Muslim Brotherhood is very enlightening. I think an MB takeover is likely.
It looks like it.
I wish Sandmonkey would weigh in; he's no fan of the MB.
| 238 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:52:06am |
Clinton calls for democracy in Egypt, but not Mubarak's ouster
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton called for "real democracy" in Egypt and praised the "great outpouring of desire" expressed by protesters there. But did not call for the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak, whom she acknowledged on Sunday has been an important ally for many years.
Appearing on all the major talk shows Sunday morning, Clinton sought to clarify the Obama Administration's position on civil unrest in Egypt and on Mubarak, who has ruled Egypt for 29 years as a dictator. She offered support to the pro-democracy movement there but declined to say if Mubarak should step down, saying it was "up to the Egyptian people" to decide who should lead their country.
| 239 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:52:21am |
re: #233 PhillyPretzel
How about Italian with pepper flakes? ;)
Well, I have heard that Anarchists do like their "pepper"...
"Don't spray me, Bro!!"
| 241 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:55:25am |
Israeli analysts fear Islamic takeover in Egypt
Israel's leaders anxiously watched events in Egypt on Sunday as analysts warned that if a new leadership was dominated by Islamists it could threaten 30 years of peace between the two neighbours.
As the wave of unprecedented protests continued to engulf Egypt, Israeli officials have been nervously eyeing developments and assessing the likely impact on ties.
"We are attentively following what is going on in Egypt and in our region," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Sunday after holding late-night talks with US President Barack Obama and
| 242 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:55:43am |
The MB are calling for a new Unity Government be formed.... and without any participation of anyone from the NDP.
Ah, the smell of payback will waft across the country...
| 243 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:55:55am |
re: #237 reine.de.tout
It looks like it.
I wish Sandmonkey would weigh in; he's no fan of the MB.
I've been wondering what he thinks as well. I suspect he might be willing to take his chances with the MB just to get rid of Mubarak, I might make the same gamble if I were in his shoes.
| 244 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:56:28am |
re: #242 Ericus58
The MB are calling for a new Unity Government be formed... and without any participation of anyone from the NDP.
Ah, the smell of payback will waft across the country...
So it goes.
| 245 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:58:28am |
Big Pharaoh shut down in 2008 and never started back up again.
| 246 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 9:59:42am |
re: #126 researchok
It's all a crap shoot at this point.
Remember, Mubarak is the military.
Whatever privileges they have (and they are plenty) is because of Mubarak. I'm not so sure the military will give up their special status so easily or willingly.
Don't think that Mubarak is the military. From what I've seen, the military has refused some of his orders. They definitively know that they are the ones now holding the true leverages of power, anyhow.
| 247 |
Buck Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:00:16am |
More evidence for me that this is not about the Muslim Brotherhood:
Israeli reports of 'friendly atmosphere' in Cairo
Tour guide Amos Abidov visits Egypt with 30 students, says no plan to come home early. 'We go to restaurants, take taxis, sit in cafes'
| 248 |
Ericus58 Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:01:00am |
What I find interesting is the lack of discussion of what a change in leadership in Egypt means in regards to the Peace Accords and their relationship to Israel.
I've heard other countries brought up.
Guess that country and it's people are not that important to AJ....
| 249 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:01:07am |
re: #130 researchok
You can bet the MB is behind that.
Enh. A lot of people have just spontaneously called the demonstrations an "Intifada". I don't think there is any need for the MB to conjure up anti-israel feelings in the Arab world.
| 250 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:02:23am |
re: #247 Buck
More evidence for me that this is not about the Muslim Brotherhood:
Israeli reports of 'friendly atmosphere' in Cairo
Tour guide Amos Abidov visits Egypt with 30 students, says no plan to come home early. 'We go to restaurants, take taxis, sit in cafes'
I saw that earlier. I think it's important to remember that the average person in the street is not the same as the people pulling the strings and positioning themselves in power behind the scenes.
| 251 |
researchok Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:02:38am |
re: #249 000G
Enh. A lot of people have just spontaneously called the demonstrations an "Intifada". I don't think there is any need for the MB to conjure up anti-israel feelings in the Arab world.
The MB has been 'conjuring up' anti Israel sentiment for decades.
In fact, Hamas is the Palestinian MB
| 252 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:03:26am |
re: #247 Buck
More evidence for me that this is not about the Muslim Brotherhood:
Israeli reports of 'friendly atmosphere' in Cairo
Tour guide Amos Abidov visits Egypt with 30 students, says no plan to come home early. 'We go to restaurants, take taxis, sit in cafes'
Would it be so. But it's not necessarily representative or predictive.
| 253 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:03:58am |
re: #155 Killgore Trout
Elbaradei is a front man. If the Muslim Brotherhood were to declare itself the new leaders the international community would start moving to stop the revolution and back Mubarak. They need to lay low until things are over. They are strong enough to take Egypt if they want to. Let's hope they don't want to.
The MB could not stop or have stopped the revolution even if they wanted to. They are as much opportunists as everyone else, not the primary driving force.
| 254 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:04:59am |
re: #251 researchok
The MB has been 'conjuring up' anti Israel sentiment for decades.
In fact, Hamas is the Palestinian MB
Anti-Israel sentiment is popular in the Arab world. MB might have helped to propagate it, but nobody needs them to be "behind it" these days.
| 255 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:10:58am |
re: #222 researchok
They are the only Egyptian opposition that is organized.
Untrue, although they are undeniably the biggest one.
| 256 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:11:29am |
re: #219 Killgore Trout
The Al Jaz discussion of the Muslim Brotherhood is very enlightening. I think an MB takeover is likely.
What was enlightening about it?
| 257 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Jan 30, 2011 10:14:43am |
re: #242 Ericus58
The MB are calling for a new Unity Government be formed... and without any participation of anyone from the NDP.
Ah, the smell of payback will waft across the country...
Enh. They didn't let the Nazi Party participate in Postwar Germany, either. Didn't mean it wasn't democratic.
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