Is Glenn Greenwald the Future of News?

If he is, watch out!
MichaelJ
Opinion • Views: 19,598
Much of the speculation about the future of news focuses on the business model: How will we generate the revenues to pay the people who gather and disseminate the news? But the disruptive power of the Internet raises other profound questions about what journalism is becoming, about its essential character and values. This week’s column is a conversation — a (mostly) civil argument — between two very different views of how journalism fulfills its mission.

Glenn Greenwald broke what is probably the year’s biggest news story, Edward Snowden’s revelations of the vast surveillance apparatus constructed by the National Security Agency. He has also been an outspoken critic of the kind of journalism practiced at places like The New York Times, and an advocate of a more activist, more partisan kind of journalism. Earlier this month he announced he was joining a new journalistic venture, backed by eBay billionaire Pierre Omidyar, who has promised to invest $250 million and to “throw out all the old rules.” I invited Greenwald to join me in an online exchange about what, exactly, that means.

More: Is Glenn Greenwald the Future of News?

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137 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 8:38:31am

If Glenn Greenwald is the future of “news” that means that in the future there will be no news.

2 Tim TeaBro  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 9:17:47am

Instead of the oft feared state propaganda, it will be anarcho- or ideologically founded propaganda.

But Greenwell misses the point, whether by accident or purposefully: one can be biased to a belief system or set of values and be objective. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Current examples that come to mind: Maddow and Charles.

3 Tim TeaBro  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 9:27:50am
But ultimately, the only real metric of journalism that should matter is accuracy and reliability. I personally think honestly disclosing rather than hiding one’s subjective values makes for more honest and trustworthy journalism. But no journalism — from the most stylistically “objective” to the most brazenly opinionated — has any real value unless it is grounded in facts, evidence, and verifiable data. The claim that overtly opinionated journalists cannot produce good journalism is every bit as invalid as the claim that the contrived form of perspective-free journalism cannot.

Glenn Greenwald

4 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:36:11am

Is Glenn Greenwald the future of news?

Good God I hope not.

5 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:55:53am

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

If Glenn Greenwald is the future of “news” that means that in the future there will be no news.

I hear no news is good news, so maybe that’s for the best…
//////

6 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:57:32am
7 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:58:21am

We are already way to close to there being no real news. How long is that list of objective, slightly skeptical of all news policy kept to the heart of coverage in the last couple years. A policy that deliberately avoids partisan lean as best as it can.

I got BBC America. NPR

That’s it. Who did I miss?

8 b.d.  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:58:36am

Greenwald isn’t the present of news let alone the future of it.

Stealing a bunch of shit then piece mealing it out to your strung along groupies isn’t journalism.

9 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:58:40am
10 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 10:58:59am

N.C. Fair operator deliberately messed with ride to harm people

A Georgia man who was operating a ride at the North Carolina State Fair when five people were injured was arrested Saturday. Authorities say he tampered with the ride to harm people.

Timothy Dwayne Tutterrow, 46, was charged with three counts of assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious bodily injury, Wake County Sheriff Donnie Harrison told the Los Angeles Times in an email.

On Thursday night, Tutterrow was operating the Vortex — a popular ride that flips and spins riders — when witnesses say it restarted while people were exiting the ride. People were thrown off and knocked unconscious. Five were injured in the incident, and three remain hospitalized.

“We’re comforted to have some answers as to why the accident occurred and why those people were injured,” state fair spokesman Brian Long said Saturday night. “But we’re also upset that it appears someone tampered with a ride in order to hurt people.”

11 erik_t  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:00:18am
Glenn Greenwald broke what is probably the year’s biggest news story,

lol

12 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:01:08am

Journalism today:

Obamacare girl mysteriously disappears from website

“Mysteriously?” Ummm, no, they obviously changed the photo to both protect this girl and attempt to put a stop to nonsense news stories like this.

13 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:01:15am

re: #10 Eclectic Cyborg

N.C. Fair operator deliberately messed with ride to harm people

Some things just test your faith in humanity and that’s honestly one of them.

14 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:01:23am

re: #11 erik_t

lol

Yeah I did a double take there too.

15 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:02:54am

The problem with Greenwald and other “journalists” like him is they want to be the news more so than the actual story. It’s one thing to do as some writers did in the past to make themselves part of the action as I believe Thompson was famous for but GG insists on making every small detail in a story about him and then he throws a fit if he’s criticized.

16 blueraven  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:03:15am

re: #7 Political Atheist

We are already way to close to their being no real news. How long is that list of objective, slightly skeptical of all news policy kept to the heart of coverage in the last couple years. A policy that deliberately avoids partisan lean as best as it can.

I got BBC America. NPR

That’s it. Who did I miss?

PBS Newshour

17 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:03:32am

To quote MST3k, “The Sword and the Dragon”

“Welcome to the Golden Age of Making Stuff Up.”

18 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:04:58am

I don’t view him as the “future,” I view him as the next stage in the evolution of the present media situation. Greenwald relies upon editorializing the news and pushing unproven assertions as fact to sell his stories, with little to no oversight. It’s the “fake but real” BS taken to it’s logical conclusion.

19 jaunte  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:07:16am
Is Glenn Greenwald the Future of News?

Only if the future of news relies on vast document dumps to create stories.

20 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:07:31am

re: #12 Eclectic Cyborg

Journalism today:

Obamacare girl mysteriously disappears from website

“Mysteriously?” Ummm, no, they obviously changed the photo to both protect this girl and attempt to put a stop to nonsense news stories like this.

She knows about Benghazi and does not want to be supobenaed…

21 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:08:42am

And how is work going today?

Friday, in Office A: “We need to do whatever it takes to make sure nothing interferes with this high level scanning we’re doing all weekend.”

Meanwhile, in Office B: “We’re going to scramble all admin passwords over the weekend for security, but not tell anyone ahead of time, so they’ll all be locked out and everything they were doing over the weekend will be worthless.”

YAY!

22 D Johnston  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:09:14am

Is this why Greenwald’s people have been out in force? Lately, I’ve been seeing FDL-style conspiracy theories show up in places where I’m sure they didn’t used to be. A few minutes ago, I had a chat with a Greenwald acolyte who insisted that the President had an “enemies list” and only went after the saintly Manning and Snowden because they were on it. This was not a website that caters to this kind of person - I’ve reached a point where I only go to blogs that have reliably sane commenters.

Also, what the hell is GG going to do with a quarter of a billion dollars? Pay more people to steal shit? We already know he never checks his sources, so the money’s not going to that…

23 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:10:15am

re: #22 D Johnston
welcome hatchling!

24 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:12:04am

re: #7 Political Atheist

We are already way to close to there being no real news. How long is that list of objective, slightly skeptical of all news policy kept to the heart of coverage in the last couple years. A policy that deliberately avoids partisan lean as best as it can.

I got BBC America. NPR

That’s it. Who did I miss?

Just bear in mind that the BBC tends to hew to the UK government line, especially on stories about Great Britain proper but also elsewhere.

Likewise NPR has gotten quite bad about the MBF in it’s coverage since the GOP began threatening defunding. Their coverage of the recent shutdown was so egregious in that respect that I wasted the time to contact the ombudsman about it. Newshour is the same as NPR in this regard.

Now, yes, these three are better than most everything else but they have very serious problems as well. I find adding Deutche Welle dw.de is useful for a continental spin as well.

25 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:13:40am

re: #16 blueraven

PBS Newshour

Right! Duh. Worth noting-None of the 24hr news channels make the list at all.

26 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:13:47am

re: #22 D Johnston

I’ve reached a point where I only go to blogs that have reliably sane commenters.

Welcome, hatchling.

27 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:14:56am

re: #26 wrenchwench

Welcome, hatchling.

Don’t think he’s talking about us.

28 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:15:41am

Who are these reliably sane folks he’s talking about?

29 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:16:11am

re: #28 Kragar

Who are these reliably sane folks he’s talking about?

Thinks he’s on Large Green Footballs.

30 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:16:29am

re: #28 Kragar

Who are these reliably sane folks he’s talking about?

It’s early…we still have a chance to feign sanity.

31 D Johnston  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:16:38am

re: #7 Political Atheist

I don’t think objectivity is the only problem, though. There’s also the problem of the mass press ignoring stories that they don’t feel will be interesting to their audiences. I spent most of 2012 following a story about a territorial conflict between the PRC and Japan that got extremely belligerent and still hasn’t been resolved. It got almost no coverage in the Western press - I think the BBC did one story, and that was about it. The only places I could go to read about it were Pacific Rim-specific news sources and - of all things - the business press.

Ultimately, the intrusion of opinion and wild speculation into news is the biggest concern, but I don’t think we can ignore the quality of the output, either.

32 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:17:51am

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s early…we still have a chance to feign sanity.

OK. “Fain, were I sane, these stilts would taste better.”

33 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:18:14am

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s early…we still have a chance to feign sanity.

Youtube Video

34 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:18:48am

re: #29 Decatur Deb

Thinks he’s on Large Green Footballs.

It’s just that our idiosyncrasies are more amusing and less grating than elsewhere.

35 D Johnston  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:19:25am

re: #27 Decatur Deb

No, you guys count. It’s pretty much here, Roy Edroso’s place, and…

…Huh. Shorter list than I thought. I kid, there are a few others, but until I can build up enough resistance to Raw Story’s horrible layout to read TBogg, this is about it.

36 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:19:32am

Tea Party Nation Warns GOP ‘Traitors’

37 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:19:40am

re: #34 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s just that our idiosyncrasies are more amusing and less grating than elsewhere.

And better formatted.

38 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:19:44am

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s early…we still have a chance to feign sanity.

So does this mean I have to stop talking to Cthulhu for awhile?

39 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:20:36am

The one thing I love about this blog above almost all others is Charles has absolutely ZERO patient for trolls and bullshit and he’s VERY fast to bring the the banhammer down if need be.

His continued involvement in this blog, in the content, technical and moderation capacities is really what sets LGF apart.

I know I (and others) have said it before but it really can’t be said enough.

40 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:20:52am

re: #36 Kragar

Tea Party Nation Warns GOP ‘Traitors’

Please proceed, etc…

41 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:20:53am

re: #38 Targetpractice

So does this mean I have to stop talking to Cthulhu for awhile?

When you talk to Cthulhu, you’re praying, when Cthulhu talks to you, you’re prey.

42 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:21:50am

re: #38 Targetpractice

So does this mean I have to stop talking to Cthulhu for awhile?

no. Matter of fact Cthulhu Pot Pies for lunch!

43 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:22:35am

re: #37 Decatur Deb

And better formatted.

And 20% more cat pictures and cheese references than any competing blog!
;)

44 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:23:10am

re: #31 D Johnston

I don’t think objectivity is the only problem, though. There’s also the problem of the mass press ignoring stories that they don’t feel will be interesting to their audiences. I spent most of 2012 following a story about a territorial conflict between the PRC and Japan that got extremely belligerent and still hasn’t been resolved. It got almost no coverage in the Western press - I think the BBC did one story, and that was about it. The only places I could go to read about it were Pacific Rim-specific news sources and - of all things - the business press.

Ultimately, the intrusion of opinion and wild speculation into news is the biggest concern, but I don’t think we can ignore the quality of the output, either.

Agreed, not the only problem. But take away the partisan lean and opinions wind up as a separate segment. And then our elections are less distorted and that’s critical to our democracy here. Honestly sometimes I think Fox and MSNBC are falsely advertising themselves as news outlets.

Look at the damage GG did to the surveillance discussion.

45 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:23:24am

Also, we have the best music of any blog around.

46 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:24:35am

re: #45 Eclectic Cyborg

Also, we have the best music of any blog around.

Youtube Video

47 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:25:44am

re: #46 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Also, the occasional Blues Image.

48 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:26:30am

Future of News?

More like back to the future.

Not only do we have nations undermining other nations through propaganda campaigns, but having “journalists” coming into possession of strategically leaked documents that purposefully harm the interests of that nation - both relationships with allies, and revealing means and methods used to spy on third parties.

Where have I seen this before? Oh yes. At the end of the 19th Century and beginning of the 20th, when you had radicals on both ends of the political spectrum looking to topple the existing governments and there was violent upheaval all around Europe. Entrenched powers looked to exploit the social and political upheaval to benefit themselves, and the targets of the espionage ran the gamut from the US to the Russian monarchy and the British, French, and Germany governments. Each was trying to undermine the other, or retain their own grip on power while fending off competing rising threats.

Newspapers were a way to manage the propaganda - both to spread propaganda and to package and manipulate the story.

What Greenwald thinks he’s doing isn’t revolutionary. Heck, it’s not even evolutionary. It’s the same kind of propagandizing and “reporting” that was done 100 years ago, albeit with twitter and youtube and the physical scope of the leaks surpassing what happened back then.

Greenwald isn’t interested in facts or veracity of his claims. If he was, the headlines on his Snowden reports would be a far cry from what they were. Far from spying recklessly on everyone and everything, the spying was far more targeted than claimed.

It’s not particularly newsworthy that the US spied on allies and foes alike. Everyone does it. It’s the scope of the spying that differs, and even then, those other countries would love to have the capabilities that the US does.

And Greenwald continues to gloss over the fact that Snowden engaged in espionage and ran to the very countries that would benefit most from revealing key details from the NSA spycraft and operations - first China and then Russia (where he’s still to this day).

49 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:27:37am

re: #36 Kragar

Tea Party Nation Warns GOP ‘Traitors’

Shorter TP: ‘Send money!’

50 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:28:27am

HAHAHA PLEASE PROCEED

51 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:28:54am

re: #43 Feline Fearless Leader

And 20% more cat pictures and cheese references than any competing blog!
;)

Also, a largely common-sense approach to pizza. This is important.

52 Dr. Matt  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:29:02am

GG must be ambidextrous from his ability to constantly pat himself on his own back.

53 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:29:16am
54 klys  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:29:40am

re: #51 makeitstop

Also, a largely common-sense approach to pizza. This is important.

Where common sense = New York pizza.

/I am prepared to defend this statement to the death.

55 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:29:59am

re: #50 Vicious Babushka

HAHAHA PLEASE PROCEED

[Embedded content]

It’s the only moral, principled path to take.

56 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:30:25am

re: #51 makeitstop

That’s right. If it’s thick crust, it’s not pizza. It’s a savory torte (and a tort/jk). /ducking

57 jaunte  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:30:48am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

“The children have already built 150 log cabins this morning!”

58 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:31:08am

re: #54 klys

Where common sense = New York pizza.

/I am prepared to defend this statement to the death.

That’s why I used the qualifier ‘largely’ - the deep-dish faction and pineapple fringe notwithstanding.

I’m right with you on NY style.

59 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:31:53am

re: #54 klys

Where common sense = New York pizza.Pineapple & Canadian Bacon.

/I am prepared to defend this statement to the death.

FTFY


(Grinning, ducking and running…)

60 klys  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:32:59am

re: #59 William Barnett-Lewis

FTFY

(Grinning, ducking and running…)

You can put whatever the hell you want to on your pizza as long as it is NY style.

Although that would be a waste of a perfectly good NY style pie.

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:33:19am

anything without anchovies is fine with me…

62 klys  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:33:49am

The grease should drip down when you fold the piece in half.

If you can’t fold it, it’s not pizza.

63 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:34:05am

re: #54 klys

Where common sense = New York pizza.

/I am prepared to defend this statement to the death.

The inventor of the Brooklyn/Bronx Knizza died this year.

articles.philly.com

64 Internet Tough Guy  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:34:59am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Oh man. The good old days when coke was only 15 cents.

Though I’m partial to paregoric…

65 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:36:48am

re: #64 Internet Tough Guy

Oh man. The good old days when coke was only 15 cents.

Though I’m partial to paregoric…

In a part of MA, near Ayer/Worcester, soda was called ‘dope’. Goes back to some early recipes.

66 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:38:17am

re: #59 William Barnett-Lewis

FTFY

(Grinning, ducking and running…)

Careful, she has capers and knows how to use them!

67 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:38:29am

re: #7 Political Atheist

We are already way to close to there being no real news. How long is that list of objective, slightly skeptical of all news policy kept to the heart of coverage in the last couple years. A policy that deliberately avoids partisan lean as best as it can.

I got BBC America. NPR

That’s it. Who did I miss?

Christian Science Monitor does a decent job.

68 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:38:58am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Kiss up, kick down.

69 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:40:54am

re: #67 Killgore Trout

Christian Science Monitor does a decent job.

Right but not on cable or broadcast. As soon as we start talking online or in print it’s a different thing. AFAIK the best of the blogs are the good news sources anymore.

70 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:41:27am

re: #68 GeneJockey

Kiss up, kick down.

New Avatar? (Invader Zim, IIRC.)

71 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:44:33am

re: #70 Feline Fearless Leader

New Avatar? (Invader Zim, IIRC.)

Yup. Decided it was time to personalize. The older boy has long been a big Zim fan, even wrote a couple Fan Fiction episodes.

72 Lidane  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:45:30am

Looks like someone is feeling the teabagger heat:

73 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:46:04am

re: #62 klys

The grease should drip down when you fold the piece in half.

If you can’t fold it, it’s not pizza.

Of course it drips DOWN. It can’t drip UP.

IIRC what you’re looking for is “drips down your arm and gets oil spots on your sleeve.”

74 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:46:15am
75 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:46:27am

re: #69 Political Atheist

Right but not on cable or broadcast. As soon as we start talking online or in print it’s a different thing. AFAIK the best of the blogs are the good news sources anymore.

Good point.

76 erik_t  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:46:42am

re: #72 Lidane

Looks like someone is feeling the teabagger heat:

Spiraling ever-inward down the purifying drain of irrelevance, just like so many other fringe advocacy organizations.

Er. Wait.

77 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:46:47am

re: #73 GeneJockey

Of course it drips DOWN. It can’t drip UP.

IIRC what you’re looking for is “drips down your arm and gets oil spots on your sleeve.”

That’s why you hold the pointy end down, silly.

78 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:46:50am

re: #72 Lidane

Looks like someone is feeling the teabagger heat:

[Embedded content]

Polishing his ‘Crazy Asshole’ cred for 2016.

79 Internet Tough Guy  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:48:56am

re: #72 Lidane

The FL Democratic Party better nominate a strong candidate in 2016; they can pick this one up now.

80 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:49:28am

re: #72 Lidane

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:49:51am

re: #69 Political Atheist

Right but not on cable or broadcast. As soon as we start talking online or in print it’s a different thing. AFAIK the best of the blogs are the good news sources anymore.

But the blogs are good disseminators, not news-gatherers. We’re a ways from the point where blog-UPIs deploy reporters to eyeball a hot-spot.

82 DisturbedEma  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:50:22am

re: #59 William Barnett-Lewis

Eeeek, the pineapple on pizza thing LIVES…my 23 year old loves that on his pizza…shudder where did I go wrong? :)

83 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:50:56am

re: #77 makeitstop

That’s why you hold the pointy end down, silly.

Though I grew up on the East Coast, I rarely got to NYC, so when I was there for a conference in 2003, I was keen to go try this famous “New York Pizza”. So I went to a place near the conference center, ordered a couple slices, and discovered that “New York Pizza” is just Pizza.

IMO, you don’t need the prefix. Just call it ‘Pizza’. Any variation needs its own prefix.

84 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:51:18am
85 Tigger2  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:51:26am

re: #72 Lidane

Looks like someone is feeling the teabagger heat:

[Embedded content]

And he’s going to start feeling a lot more Hispanic heat that helped put him in office.

86 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:51:47am

re: #80 Kragar

[Embedded content]

That’s a far less crude way of putting it than I’d have come up with.

87 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:54:11am

re: #82 DisturbedEma

Eeeek, the pineapple on pizza thing LIVES…my 23 year old loves that on his pizza…shudder where did I go wrong? :)

Relax. The world body for pizza omologata is Italy. italy puts anything on pizza.

Image: pizza+frutti+di+mare.jpg

88 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:54:29am

re: #86 GeneJockey

That’s a far less crude way of putting it than I’d have come up with.

Think Danny Devito as the beginning of Ruthless People

“Yeah, this is Ted, Marco can’t talk right now…”

89 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:54:43am
90 Mattand  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:57:21am

Josh Marshall nails it:

Ok, Please, Enough

Churning through countless domestic phone calls is one thing - that has very real constitutional implications. It may be a similar thing with doing that in Spain or other countries in Europe and the Middle East, though the constitutional questions are very different. But please, please spare me the shock and surprise that the US spies on foreign leaders, even allies, even close allies. These countries spy on our leaders too. The only real exception is within the special club of the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand where, for a variety of historical reasons, a pretty different set of rules and integration apply.

92 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:58:56am

re: #91 Aqua Obama

Rand Paul Vows to Block Obama Nominees Until Benghazi Dead Testify

93 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 11:59:49am

re: #92 Decatur Deb

Paul should require a statement from Franco as well.
//

94 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:00:01pm

re: #90 Mattand

Well, doing it is accepted. getting caught Not So Much.

95 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:00:41pm

re: #94 Political Atheist

Well, doing it is accepted. getting caught Not So Much.

Getting caught requires singing The Very Sorry Song.

:D

calvinandhobbes.wikia.com

96 Tigger2  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:01:03pm

re: #91 Aqua Obama

Lindsey Graham Vows to Block Obama Nominees Until Benghazi Survivors Testify

You would thing the teapublicans would want to cool it for a little while after their shutdown fiasco.

97 Mattand  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:01:56pm

OT: Is it me, or has CNN turned into the “Obamacare is DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!”* channel, since the Elephant-mascoted shit eaters got their asses kicked over the shutdown?

*Zim ref for Gene Jockey.

98 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:02:18pm

re: #96 Tigger2

You would thing the teapublicans would want to cool it for a little while after the shutdown fiasco.

They do not retreat, they reload.

99 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:02:39pm

re: #96 Tigger2

You would thing the teapublicans would want to cool it for a little while after the shutdown fiasco.

Yeah, but Graham isn’t Tea. He’s trying to pass for Pekoe.

100 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:02:41pm

re: #88 Kragar

Think Danny Devito as the beginning of Ruthless People

“Yeah, this is Ted, Marco can’t talk right now…”

Yeah, that’s about what I was thinking.

101 Mattand  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:02:53pm

Not that we shouldn’t discuss actual problems with the ACA rollout, but it seems like CNN’s Editor-in-Chief got beaten with Magic Balance Fairy’s wand.

102 Lidane  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:03:12pm

re: #96 Tigger2

You would thing the teapublicans would want to cool it for a little while after their shutdown fiasco.

LOL no. The only reason the shutdown failed was because it wasn’t conservative enough. Time to double down!

103 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:03:16pm
104 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:03:18pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Yeah, but Graham isn’t Tea. He’s trying to pass for Pekoe.

Not for all the tea in China…

105 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:03:33pm

re: #101 Mattand

Not that we shouldn’t discuss actual problem with the ACA rollout, but it seems like CNN’s Editor-in-Chief got beaten with Magic Balance Fairy’s wand.

I think the MBF has a cattle prod and not a wand.
/

106 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:03:55pm

re: #97 Mattand

OT: Is it me, or has CNN turned into the “Obamacare is DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!”* channel, since the Elephant-mascoted shit eaters got their asses kicked over the shutdown?

*Zim ref for Gene Jockey.

I’M GONNA SING THE DOOM SONG NOW!

Youtube Video

107 Tigger2  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:04:54pm

re: #98 Sol Berdinowitz

They do not retreat, they reload.

They have reloaded many times but the problem is all they do is keep shooting themselves in their own foot.

108 Mattand  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:05:17pm

re: #106 Kragar

I’M GONNA SING THE DOOM SONG NOW!

[Embedded content]

I need to bust out AfterEffects and paste Wolf Blitzer’s head in there.

109 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:05:55pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Yeah, but Graham isn’t Tea. He’s trying to pass for Pekoe.

“D as in ‘Dirt’, I as in ‘Dirt’, R as in ‘Dirt’, and T as in Orange Pekoe.”

110 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:06:23pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Yeah, but Graham isn’t Tea. He’s trying to pass for Pekoe.

I thought Boehner was Pekoe…

111 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:06:34pm

re: #101 Mattand

Not that we shouldn’t discuss actual problems with the ACA rollout, but it seems like CNN’s Editor-in-Chief got beaten with Magic Balance Fairy’s wand.

There are obvious problems, but it’s not FUBAR. We’re still in the first quarter, and the TPGOP is about to get penalized for excessive celebration.

The Alabama ACA Navigator ‘kickoff’ is tonight.

112 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:07:25pm

re: #110 Backwoods_Sleuth

I thought Boehner was Pekoe…

Since he knuckled under two weeks ago, I think the Tea Party’s opinion is that Boehner is PINKO.

113 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:08:52pm

The Suzanne Somers article in the WSJ is so full of stupid, you may need a brain transplant.

Also too: Teh Fake Quotes.

114 sagehen  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:09:44pm

re: #91 Aqua Obama

Lindsey Graham Vows to Block Obama Nominees Until Benghazi Survivors Testify

And this is why Obama can’t fire Sebelius. No way in hell does he want to send nominees to the Senate. For anything. Ever.

115 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:11:01pm
116 Lidane  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:11:24pm

This was inevitable:

117 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:11:38pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

The Suzanne Somers article in the WSJ is so full stupid, you may need a brain transplant.

Also too: Teh Fake Quotes.

Well, when an actor whose primary claim to fame was playing a ditzy blonde in a ’70s sitcom, and was then reduced to hawking exercise equipment on late-night TV, you KNOW their insights on healthcare are worth listening to!!!
///////////////////////////

118 Mattand  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:12:02pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

The Suzanne Somers article in the WSJ is so full stupid, you may need a brain transplant.

Also too: Teh Fake Quotes.

How dare you? Suzanne Somers is all about TEH MED-DUH-CAL SCIENZES!!

I mean, who else but a professional would inject themselves down there?

119 Aqua Obama  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:12:38pm

re: #97 Mattand

OT: Is it me, or has CNN turned into the “Obamacare is DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!”* channel, since the Elephant-mascoted shit eaters got their asses kicked over the shutdown?

*Zim ref for Gene Jockey.

I can’t read formerly decent sites like Political Wire anymore because it’s non-stop concern trolling over the law. Makes you wonder when the rest of the site is filled with crazy paid links everywhere.

120 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:13:32pm

re: #115 Kragar

AFA’s Bryan Fischer says the military will use “lethal force” against Christians & conservatives

They will. And against Jains, animists, atheists, communists and Mormons. It’s what they do.

121 Kragar  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:14:47pm

re: #117 GeneJockey

Well, when an actor whose primary claim to fame was playing a ditzy blonde in a ’70s sitcom, and was then reduced to hawking exercise equipment on late-night TV, you KNOW their insights on healthcare are worth listening to!!!
///////////////////////////

I’m waiting for Jenny McCarthy to be named director of the CDC.

122 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:14:58pm

re: #120 Decatur Deb

They will. And against Jains, animists, atheists, communists and Mormons. It’s what they do.

What, have the tickle guns and giant glue traps not been weaponized yet?
///

123 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:16:46pm

re: #121 Kragar

I’m waiting for Jenny McCarthy to be named director of the CDC.

Are you trying to kill me? I did mention that

1) I used to work in vaccines, and

2) I have a son On The Spectrum.

I read that post, and the safety relays that prevent my head from exploding all went off.
/////

124 Aqua Obama  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:17:34pm

Our Senate is screwed like pre-revolutionary Poland with this liberum veto crap. Hey media, there’s a story.

125 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:17:38pm

re: #119 Aqua Obama

I can’t read formerly decent sites like Political Wire anymore because it’s non-stop concern trolling over the law. Makes you wonder when the rest of the site is filled with crazy paid links everywhere.

I know. I look over at the right of the page and think, “WTF?”

126 Lidane  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:17:39pm

re: #121 Kragar

I’m waiting for Jenny McCarthy to be named director of the CDC.

I’m waiting for Mr. Furley to be named HUD Secretary.

127 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:17:40pm

re: #123 GeneJockey

Are you trying to kill me? I did mention that

1) I used to work in vaccines, and

2) I have a son On The Spectrum.

I read that post, and the safety relays that prevent my head from exploding all went off.
/////

Click. Click. Click. Click. DOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!

:)

128 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:19:01pm

re: #126 Lidane

I’m waiting for Mr. Furley to be named HUD Secretary.

Who is still alive from that show?

129 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:19:26pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

The Suzanne Somers article in the WSJ is so full stupid, you may need a brain transplant.

Also too: Teh Fake Quotes.

I also note that she brags about being an expert by virtue of her 24 books on wellness, then immediately drops into a ‘Blame Canada’ anecdote.

130 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:20:22pm

re: #127 Feline Fearless Leader

Click. Click. Click. Click. DOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!

:)

Mixing shows, but…

“Ketcup? On LOBSTER?!?” *bang!*

131 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:21:08pm

A bunch of Facebook wingnuts fell hard for this:

Rocker and Conservative Activist Ted Nugent Survives Assassination Attempt

They’re so goddamned gullible.

132 blueraven  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:23:51pm

re: #103 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

He deleted the tweet & photo ? Wonder why?
The article is stupid.

133 klys  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:24:12pm

DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOMY-DOOMY-DOOM, DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

/commentary on GG as the future of news or an Invader Zim flashback?

134 GeneJockey  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:24:49pm

re: #133 klys

DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOMY-DOOMY-DOOM, DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

/commentary on GG as the future of news or an Invader Zim flashback?

It’s a floor polish AND a dessert topping!

135 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:29:18pm

Glenn Greenwald: If his style of news is the future, we’re history.

136 Lidane  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 12:35:02pm

re: #128 Feline Fearless Leader

Who is still alive from that show?

I checked Wikipedia. From the main cast of roommates, everyone except John Ritter is still alive. From all the secondary characters, the Ropers, Mr. Furley, and the dean of Jack’s cooking school are all dead. Everyone else is alive.

137 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 28, 2013 1:10:28pm

re: #131 makeitstop

A bunch of Facebook wingnuts fell hard for this:

Rocker and Conservative Activist Ted Nugent Survives Assassination Attempt

They’re so goddamned gullible.

Only way for him to die is from an accidental self-inflicted gunshot while out hunting meat for his table.


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