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328 comments
1 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:54:58am

Individual Liberties - Corporate pollution OK. Sex not OK. OK?

//

3 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:58:56am

"Don't go there... Do not go there..."

4 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:00:04pm

they believe that Liberty means that americans are free to do anything they want as long as republicans approve of it

5 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:00:09pm

Hello uterus!

6 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:00:37pm

re: #2 Gus

RNC Ratings Night Two: Networks Lose 17 Million Viewers Compared To Night Two Of 2008 RNC

it's a kind of small looking convention

a little bit bigger than a game show

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:01:17pm

Quite amazing. Not one of these people seemed to understand her point until she beat them over the head with it.

8 simoom  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:02:12pm

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney; Government documents prove the candidate's mythology is just that

According to the candidate's mythology, Romney took leave of his duties at the private equity firm Bain Capital in 1990 and rode in on a white horse to lead a swift restructuring of Bain & Company, preventing the collapse of the consulting firm where his career began. When The Boston Globe reported on the rescue at the time of his Senate run against Ted Kennedy, campaign aides spun Romney as the wizard behind a "long-shot miracle," bragging that he had "saved bank depositors all over the country $30 million when he saved Bain & Company."

In fact, government documents on the bailout obtained by Rolling Stone show that the legend crafted by Romney is basically a lie. The federal records, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that Romney's initial rescue attempt at Bain & Company was actually a disaster – leaving the firm so financially strapped that it had "no value as a going concern." Even worse, the federal bailout ultimately engineered by Romney screwed the FDIC – the bank insurance system backed by taxpayers – out of at least $10 million. And in an added insult, Romney rewarded top executives at Bain with hefty bonuses at the very moment that he was demanding his handout from the feds.

...

Almost as soon as the FDIC agreed to the loan restructuring, however, Romney's rescue plan began to fall apart. "The company realized early on that it would be unable to hit its revenue targets or manage the debt structure," the documents reveal. By the spring of 1992, Bain's decline was perilous: "If Bain goes into default," one analyst warned the FDIC, "the bank group will need to decide whether to force Bain into bankruptcy."

With his rescue plan a bust, Romney was forced to slink back to the banks to negotiate a new round of debt relief. There was only one catch: Even though Bain & Company was deep in debt and sinking fast, the firm was actually flush with cash – most of it from the looted money that Bill Bain and other partners had given back. "Liquidity is strong based on the significant cash balance which Bain is carrying," one federal document reads.

Under normal circumstances, such ample reserves would have made liquidating Bain an attractive option: Creditors could simply divvy up the stockpiled cash and be done with the troubled firm. But Bain had inserted a poison pill in its loan agreement with the banks: Instead of being required to use its cash to pay back the firm's creditors, the money could be pocketed by Bain executives in the form of fat bonuses – starting with VPs making $200,000 and up. "The company can deplete its cash balances by making officer-bonus payments," the FDIC lamented, "and still be in compliance with the loan documents."

What's more, the bonus loophole gave Romney a perverse form of leverage: If the banks and the FDIC didn't give in to his demands and forgive much of Bain's debts, Romney would raid the firm's coffers, pushing it into the very bankruptcy that the loan agreement had been intended to avert. The losers in this game would not only be Bain's creditors – including the federal government – but the firm's nearly 1,000 employees worldwide.

In March 1992, according to the FDIC documents, Romney approached the banks and played the bonus card. Allow Bain to pay off its debt at a deep discount, he demanded – just 35 cents on the dollar. Otherwise, the "majority" of the firm's "excess cash" would "be available for the bonus pool to its officers at a vice president level and above."

I like how he blackmailed his creditors, including the federal gov't... 'Personal Responsibility!' ///

9 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:02:48pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Quite amazing. Not one of these people seemed to understand her point until she beat them over the head with it.

thinking is elitist

10 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:02:57pm

re: #8 simoom

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney; Government documents prove the candidate's mythology is just that

I like how he blackmailed his creditors, including the federal gov't... 'Personal Responsibility!' ///

I built that.

11 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:05:12pm

"But we're talking about freedom, not ladyparts!"

12 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:08:26pm

Personal liberties do not apply to ladybits.

13 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:09:12pm

It's up to each individual to decide who they're going to oppress. Because we are a free people.

14 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:11:22pm
15 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:12:21pm

re: #14 darthstar

BUT 0BUMMER HAD ALREADY BEEN ELECTED, CLEARLY GM WAS RESPONDING TO FORTHCOMING MARKET PRESSURE DUE TO THE ECONOMY THAT WOULD NOW CRASH BECAUSE THE DEMOCRAT PARTY WAS ABOUT TO DECONSTRUCT 'MURRICA!!!!1

16 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:12:46pm

I gotta play Devil's advocate at this point and explain that to these people, foetuses have as many rights as the mother, even if that foetus is the result of rape or incest. That is so self-evident to them that they see no need to argue details and modalities.

Please note that I do not support this point of view, I am just pointing out the aspect of the argument that Ms Bee left out.

17 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:13:29pm

re: #16 Expand Your Ground

I gotta play Devil's advodate at this point and explain that to these people, foetuses have as many rights as the mother

Absolutely false. To these people, a fetus has rights far in excess of those of the mother.

18 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:14:27pm

Also too gay people not allowed to be gay or marry or anything like that. Freedom=Slavery. /

19 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:14:36pm

re: #16 Expand Your Ground

I gotta play Devil's advodate at this point and explain that to these people, foetuses have as many more rights as than the mother, even if that foetus is the result of rape or incest. That is so self-evident to them that they see no need to argue details and modalities.

Please note that I do not support this point of view, I am just pointing out the aspect of the argument that Ms Bee left out.

You missed the essential point.

20 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:15:08pm

re: #8 simoom

So Romney started the company with money from El Salvadorian families who funded death squads, and then he got a government bailout after he'd gotten the company into an unrecoverable position. Fucking awesome.

Make this guy president!

21 dragonath  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:15:11pm

That was one of the most depressing things I've seen on the Daily Show. The GOP lives on the critical mass of indifferent and morally ambiguous voters out there.

22 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:15:25pm

Bush Administration Praised Closure Of Auto Plant That Ryan Now Blames On Obama

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) claimed during his convention speech Wednesday that President Obama is responsible for the closure of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin. However, as many media outlets have noted, GM announced plans to close the plant in June ’08 — long before Obama was even elected — and it ceased major operations in December of that year.

For proof, just ask one of the more prominent supporters of the Janesville plant shutdown — the George W. Bush Administration. After all, the closure was part of a broader GM restructuring initiative that the then-President supported. White House Press Secretary Dana Perino even praised it as evidence of GM “adapting well:”

23 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:15:29pm

re: #16 Expand Your Ground

I gotta play Devil's advodate at this point and explain that to these people, foetuses have as many rights as the mother, even if that foetus is the result of rape or incest. That is so self-evident to them that they see no need to argue details and modalities.

Please note that I do not support this point of view, I am just pointing out the aspect of the argument that Ms Bee left out.

That's pretty much mainstream Catholic doctrine. Once you understand that, all the other crap makes sense.

24 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:17:14pm

re: #22 Kragar

As I tried to point out last night, this whole Janesville thing is even more ironic when one realizes that the head of the ticket, Mitt Romney, is praised for doing things exactly like what happened to that plant.

25 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:17:35pm

Update on the Chris Mathews clip featured here a few days ago: Brzezinski: ‘Somewhere over the years, the news media got lost and forgot what news was’

“Morning Joe” got some negative publicity this week after guest Chris Matthews started a shouting match with Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus during a roundtable discussion on Monday’s show.
....
Brzezinksi and Scarborough said that Monday’s show “hit a pothole.”

“Our strategy for discourse on the show is to have a civil one. … I think things went off the rails a little bit, and it wasn’t our best show. It’s live, it’s three hours a day, and sometimes we have a good show and sometimes we don’t have such a good show,” Brzezinksi said. “It’s very unpredictable, obviously, because we don’t use scripts and because everybody is speaking from the heart and off the top of their heads and there are obvious pitfalls with that.”

Scarborough said he was upset that “Morning Joe” “wasted five minutes of the audience’s time” during Matthews’ outburst by doing “absolutely nothing to illuminate the conversation.”

26 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:17:35pm

GM slashes truck, SUV production as gasoline prices spike (3 Jun 2008)

CHICAGO (AFP) — General Motors predicted Tuesday that the era of the gasoline guzzlers is ending as it announced plans to close four North American truck and sports utility vehicle plants and ramp up production of new fuel-efficient vehicles.
...
The White House called the announcement a sign that the auto giant was "adapting well" to market shifts. "It's a sign that Detroit continues to adapt and evolve and address the change in consumer tastes and attitudes. And I think that they're adapting well," spokeswoman Dana Perino said.
...
GM plans to shutter production at its Toluca, Mexico, pickup truck at the end of the year and its Oshawa, Canada plant will be closed in 2009. Plants in Moraine, Ohio and Janesville, Wisconsin, are slated for closure in 2010 "or sooner if market demand dictates," GM said.

Why does George Bush's administration hate Paul Ryan's hometown!?

27 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:18:07pm

re: #22 Kragar

(shakes fist in impotent rage)

28 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:18:54pm

re: #16 Expand Your Ground

It's not exactly playing "devil's advocate", as that is indeed the moral question. That's why, for all the humor, the Bee piece begs the actual moral question with an assumption of the non-rights of a fetus.

29 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:19:08pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's the shouting that's the problem with the media, not that they don't actually call the lies lies.

That's the ticket. It's the shouting.

30 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:19:43pm

re: #22 Kragar

Bush Administration Praised Closure Of Auto Plant That Ryan Now Blames On Obama

So I guess Ryan's problem with Obama is that he didn't fully nationalize GM and order them to keep the plant open? How else can you interpret his criticism?

31 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:19:56pm

re: #22 Kragar

Bush Administration Praised Closure Of Auto Plant That Ryan Now Blames On Obama

re: #26 erik_t

GM slashes truck, SUV production as gasoline prices spike (3 Jun 2008)

Why does George Bush's administration hate Paul Ryan's hometown!?

Stop it guys, seriously. You keep mentioning "he who must not be named" and people will be reminded when the recession actually started!

32 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:20:15pm

re: #22 Kragar

Bush Administration Praised Closure Of Auto Plant That Ryan Now Blames On Obama

Hahahaha!

33 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:21:05pm

re: #22 Kragar

The closure - a decision made by Rick Wagoner and GM honchos - was part of a plan designed to keep GM out of bankruptcy and following a first round of bailout funds authorized under the Bush Administration. It was meant to tide the company over until it could get on better financial terms. Eliminate excess capacity, cut costs, etc.

Wagoner failed, and the losses kept piling up.

Those cost-cutting efforts were insufficient, requiring a second round of bailout funds under Obama, which were also insufficient, forcing an expedited bankruptcy reorganization. Under that plan, it meant that some factories and dealerships would be shut down but the company would continue to function and hundreds of thousands of jobs down the supply chain would be preserved.

34 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:21:19pm

re: #22 Kragar

Bush Administration Praised Closure Of Auto Plant That Ryan Now Blames On Obama

STOP BLAMING BUSH!!
Oh wait. Haha.

35 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:21:20pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Update on the Chris Mathews clip featured here a few days ago: Brzezinski: ‘Somewhere over the years, the news media got lost and forgot what news was’

That segment was the only worthwhile thing to come out of Morning Joe since, well, maybe ever.

36 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:22:19pm

re: #29 Obdicut

Yeah, it's the shouting that's the problem with the media, not that they don't actually call the lies lies.

That's the ticket. It's the shouting.

I didn't watch the clip because I find Mathews to be an embarrassing buffoon but the shows' hosts didn't seem to appreciate his outburst. It was a big hit with the moonbats though.

37 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:22:27pm
38 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:22:35pm

re: #16 Expand Your Ground

I gotta play Devil's advocate at this point and explain that to these people, foetuses have as many rights as the mother, even if that foetus is the result of rape or incest. That is so self-evident to them that they see no need to argue details and modalities.

Please note that I do not support this point of view, I am just pointing out the aspect of the argument that Ms Bee left out.

Bunch of hypocritical assholes. They think a fetus has more rights than the mother, but they want to cut any kind of assistance for that child to be fed and housed and educated once he/she is born. I don't give a rat's ass what they "think" about fetuses because they have clearly shown that they are hypocritical idiots of the highest magnitude and therefore should be shunned.

39 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:22:54pm

Breath of Fresh Air break:

Doesn't look like she has a direct speaking role at the DNC, which is too bad. She's probably one of the most productive, under-rated Senators in power today.

40 mr.fusion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:23:03pm

Health Care Reform based on existing structure of private insurers = bureaucrat getting between me and my doctor

Government forcing women to carry their rapists child to term regardless of what she or her doctor says = freedom

41 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:24:31pm

Matthews’ outburst

guilty of attempting to call a liar to account

42 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:24:34pm

Romney Campaign Chair: Same-Sex Marriage Too ‘Complicated’ To Discuss

Smarmy Romney campaign chair John Sununu sat down for a radio interview with Michelangelo Signorile yesterday, but was apparently unprepared to discuss the Republican Party’s platform. When he was informed that it called for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage — which Mitt Romney supports — Sununu was at a loss for words, explaining the issue is “much more complicated” than a “two-sentence” answer could encompass. Instead, he offered to share two cases of beer and talk about it in a different setting, presumably not while being recorded.

Apparently everything in the Romney campaign is too complicated to discuss.

43 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:24:37pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

It should have been embarrassing to the Morning Joe hosts that someone else had to point out the obvious race-baiting.

44 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:25:26pm

re: #14 darthstar

Last vehicle off the Janesville line -- banner reads "Dec 23, 2008" maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/…

[Embedded content]

My heat map has detected layers all over that banner.

45 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:25:46pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

I didn't watch the clip because I find Mathews to be an embarrassing buffoon but the shows' hosts didn't seem to appreciate his outburst. It was a big hit with the moonbats though.

I don't like Chris Matthews at all, but he was right on the money with skewering Priebus. You really should watch the clip.

46 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:26:07pm
47 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:26:19pm

re: #42 Kragar

Romney Campaign Chair: Same-Sex Marriage Too ‘Complicated’ To Discuss

Apparently everything in the Romney campaign is too complicated to discuss.

Too complicated? At least the segregationists made their bigoted intentions clear.

48 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:27:02pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Yep,that horrible liberal show Morning Joe(on that horrible evil liberal MSNBC) did nothing at all to lift the public discourse. Sigh. There's not a damned thing wrong with calling a liar a liar or a race-baiting ass a race-baiting ass. Sometimes those discussions aren't nice,polite and pretty,in fact,neither is Democracy. Bullies and liars don't stop because you ask nice. Good Lord.

49 dragonath  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:27:04pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Update on the Chris Mathews clip featured here a few days ago: Brzezinski: ‘Somewhere over the years, the news media got lost and forgot what news was’

You're so concerned about the media, you linked to Breitbart a couple of days ago.

50 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:28:08pm

re: #45 Sionainn

I don't like Chris Matthews at all, but he was right on the money with skewering Priebus. You really should watch the clip.

I watched a video of Mathews eating a sandwich at the convention so I'm already over my quota of Mathews videos this week. He was really enjoying that sandwich.

51 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:28:28pm

re: #42 Kragar

Romney Campaign Chair: Same-Sex Marriage Too ‘Complicated’ To Discuss

Apparently everything in the Romney campaign is too complicated to discuss.

Of all the goddamned things. You cowards. This is literally a yes-or-no question.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:29:04pm

re: #42 Kragar

Romney Campaign Chair: Same-Sex Marriage Too ‘Complicated’ To Discuss

Apparently everything in the Romney campaign is too complicated to discuss.

Wasn't too complicated for Dick Cheney. He did it in one sentence:

Freedom is for everyone.

53 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:29:21pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

I didn't watch the clip because I find Mathews to be an embarrassing buffoon but the shows' hosts didn't seem to appreciate his outburst. It was a big hit with the moonbats though.

I'm beginning to see the genesis of your "birthers aren't racists" theory from yesterday.

54 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:30:11pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Update on the Chris Mathews clip featured here a few days ago: Brzezinski: ‘Somewhere over the years, the news media got lost and forgot what news was’

If you didn't watch the clip, why are you so concerned about it now?

55 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:30:19pm

re: #49 dragonath

You're so concerned about the media, you linked to Breitbart a couple of days ago.

Yes, and what you and the rest of the brain damaged idiots downdinged it to hell. It was an article seething butthurt about the fact checkers for actually checking facts.

56 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:31:02pm
58 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:32:06pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Yes, and what you and the rest of the brain damaged idiots downdinged it to hell. It was an article seething butthurt about the fact checkers for actually checking facts.

I'm already over my quota for Killgore comments for this week.

59 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:32:41pm

re: #53 Mattand

I'm beginning to see the genesis of your "birthers aren't racists" theory from yesterday.

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue. There's plenty of real racism and overusing the accusation only provides cover for the racists.

60 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:33:17pm

re: #54 Sionainn

If you didn't watch the clip, why are you so concerned about it now?

It was featured here, I thought people might want to see the update.

61 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:33:46pm

Gaze.

62 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:34:00pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

I'm already over my quota for Killgore comments for this week.

Did someone say something about "seething butthurt"?

63 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:34:26pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

You have that backward. Birtherism is the superficial manifestation; it's racism at the core.

64 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:34:34pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

It was featured here, I thought people might want to see the update.

Update? Puhlease.

65 Big Steve  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:34:45pm

re: #49 dragonath

You're so concerned about the media, you linked to Breitbart a couple of days ago.

I have noticed people here readily link to the Daily Kos......which some of us oldsters around here just find surreal.

66 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:34:51pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

I didn't watch the clip because I find Mathews to be an embarrassing buffoon but the shows' hosts didn't seem to appreciate his outburst. It was a big hit with the moonbats though.

I don't think you responded to what I said in my post, but kind of made up something else to respond to.

I'm pointing out that complaining about Matthew's outburst is rather weird and finicky when the massive problems with the mainstream media are so overwhelming. The media does barely any real investigation, pretends that facts are something to be judged in a scale, engage in the really fundamentally stupid position that the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle, allowing extremists to create a false sense of reality.

There are many things going on in the US these days that are worth shouting about. Matthews is getting it right on this point, even if he's delivering it in a less-than-classy manner. Concern with form over function is foolish.

67 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:35:37pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

It was featured here, I thought people might want to see the update.

Thank you for your concern.

68 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:35:45pm

re: #65 Big Steve

I have noticed people here readily link to the Daily Kos......which some of us oldsters around here just find surreal.

We've evolved.

69 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:35:58pm

Reposting because some people could really benefit from the reminder:

70 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:36:18pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Yes, and what you and the rest of the brain damaged idiots downdinged it to hell. It was an article seething butthurt about the fact checkers for actually checking facts.

This is rich, coming from someone who thinks CEO/Managing Director doesn't mean what it says it does.

71 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:36:19pm

re: #65 Big Steve

I have noticed people here readily link to the Daily Kos......which some of us oldsters around here just find surreal.

Others of us, not so much.

72 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:36:32pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue. There's plenty of real racism and overusing the accusation only provides cover for the racists.

Curiously, no other presidential candidate in my lifetime has been subjected to inane citizenship questions and accusations for literally years after he provided proof of legitimacy.

I wonder, just wonder, why the fuck that might be.

73 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:36:39pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue.

Can you explain the thought process that leads you to believe that birtherism-- the belief that the Kenyan-fathered, half-black half-white Barack Obama was not really born in Hawaii (despite no reason, indication, or evidence that he was born elsewhere)-- is not rooted in racism?

Specifically, why has this never come up with any other US-born Democratic candidate before?

74 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:36:51pm

re: #65 Big Steve

I have noticed people here readily link to the Daily Kos......which some of us oldsters around here just find surreal.

I don't see a lot of that. Many more links these days go to TPM from what I can tell.

75 allegro  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:37:08pm

re: #66 Obdicut

There are many things going on in the US these days that are worth shouting about. Matthews is getting it right on this point, even if he's delivering it in a less-than-classy manner. Concern with form over function is foolish.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the blatant lies and reprehensible racism to be distinctly uncivil. Raising one's voice when pointing that out is considerably less so.

76 dragonath  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:37:12pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Yes, and what you and the rest of the brain damaged idiots downdinged it to hell. It was an article seething butthurt about the fact checkers for actually checking facts.

Huh what? I didn't personally ding it but are you seriously calling Charles a "brain damaged idiot"?

Feel free to indulge in your false equivalencies between honest criticism and Breitbartian fantasy though.

77 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:37:12pm
78 Big Steve  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:38:25pm

re: #77 Gus

[Embedded content]

well played sir!

79 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:39:31pm

re: #75 allegro

Maybe it's just me, but I find the blatant lies and reprehensible racism to be distinctly uncivil. Raising one's voice when pointing that out is considerably less so.

This. A million times.

80 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:39:33pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue. There's plenty of real racism and overusing the accusation only provides cover for the racists.

Wrong.

Birthers are driven by the fact a black guy with a Muslim sounding name is President of the US. To deny that is to deny reality.

How can you seriously sit there and pretend the President's race has nothing to do with people accusing him of not being born here? It's absurd.

Your reasoning sounds like "Chris Matthews was mean to Reince Preibus, therefore birtherism has nothing to do with racism."

81 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:39:47pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue. There's plenty of real racism and overusing the accusation only provides cover for the racists.

This is an intellectually lazy argument that ignores the clear links between birtherism and racism.

And I note that you've never clearly articulated why you think birtherism has no link to racism.

And from someone who is a target of racism, I find your use of "real" racism to be insulting. YOU DO NOT GET TO DEFINE WHAT'S REAL RACISM.

82 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:40:44pm

re: #26 erik_t

GM slashes truck, SUV production as gasoline prices spike (3 Jun 2008)

Why does George Bush's administration hate Paul Ryan's hometown!?

Blame it on high gas prices that GM made bad decisions about what sort of vehicles to produce in the first place. And blame it on the President that gas prices are so high...

People will still buy these arguments, you know, they see cheap gas as some sort of birthright.

83 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:40:48pm

well i'll point out that charles has linked directly to fox news:

Deceiving

On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.

The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.

Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling.

Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush. Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.

Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.

Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan.

Elections should be about competing based on your record in the past and your vision for the future, not competing to see who can get away with the most lies and distortions without voters noticing or bother to care. Both parties should hold themselves to that standard. Republicans should be ashamed that there was even one misrepresentation in Ryan’s speech but sadly, there were many.

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

fair and balanced!

84 allegro  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:42:06pm

re: #81 gwangung

YOU DO NOT GET TO DEFINE WHAT'S REAL RACISM.

Kinda like legitimate rape? I'm seeing a trend here...

85 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:42:17pm

re: #73 Obdicut

Can you explain the thought process that leads you to believe that birtherism-- the belief that the Kenyan-fathered, half-black half-white Barack Obama was not really born in Hawaii (despite no reason, indication, or evidence that he was born elsewhere)-- is not rooted in racism?

Specifically, why has this never come up with any other US-born Democratic candidate before?

Heck why didn't birthers get bent out of shape about the GOP candidate in 2008 WHO REALLY WAS BORN OUTSIDE THE U.S.?

86 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:43:52pm

birtherism without racism is like racism without racism

87 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:44:11pm

re: #85 aagcobb

Heck why didn't birthers get bent out of shape about the GOP candidate in 2008 WHO REALLY WAS BORN OUTSIDE THE U.S.?

Because his father wasn't Kenyan. And I remember Obama as Senator sponsoring a bill that would allow children of parents born on military bases outside the US like McCain to be guaranteed the same birth right citizenship rights as a child born in the US. OF course the wing-nuts I knew claimed he was doing that to detract attention from his own nationality. Guy can't win with them.

88 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:44:22pm
89 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:44:26pm

...also I think Joe Scarborough is being a hypocrite. To have someone like Mathews on and then complain that he does something embarrassing is disingenuous. It's what he does. Also Scarborough is talking like he wants to do some sort of serious intellectual show but he's on the left wing version of Fox. If he wants to do a serious show he can go to PBS and accept the smaller PBS audience that more serious news provides along the the smaller paycheck.

90 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:45:34pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

Because his father wasn't A BLACK, BLACKY BLACKETY BLACK Kenyan.

91 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:45:45pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

It is fucking amazing to me that you use Joe Scarborough, a conservative, former Republican with a significant time slot on MSNBC, in an example and then can blithely go on to refer to it as the lefty version of Fox.

You have got a really sad addiction to false equivalence. It's really embarrassing.

92 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:45:52pm

re: #88 darthstar

Then he can start selling off parts to keep his investors happy.

93 allegro  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:45:56pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

...also I think Joe Scarborough is being a hypocrite. To have someone like Mathews on and then complain that he does something embarrassing is disingenuous. It's what he does. Also Scarborough is talking like he wants to do some sort of serious intellectual show but he's on the left wing version of Fox. If he wants to do a serious show he can go to PBS and accept the smaller PBS audience that more serious news provides along the the smaller paycheck.

If MSNBC was a left wing version of Fox, Scarborough wouldn't have a three hour show, 5 days a week there.

94 leftynyc  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:46:01pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Didn't downding you for that but will for this. You argue just like your pals on the right. Matthews was calling out racism and was right on the money - sometimes the truth hurts.

95 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:47:14pm

Joe Scarborough had a dead woman found in his office when he was in congress. Just sayin'...

96 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:47:38pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

...also I think Joe Scarborough is being a hypocrite. To have someone like Mathews on and then complain that he does something embarrassing is disingenuous. It's what he does. Also Scarborough is talking like he wants to do some sort of serious intellectual show but he's on the left wing version of Fox. If he wants to do a serious show he can go to PBS and accept the smaller PBS audience that more serious news provides along the the smaller paycheck.

Joe Scarborough thinks birtherism is hate speech.

97 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:48:17pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue. There's plenty of real racism and overusing the accusation only provides cover for the racists.

I don’t believe that there is any word that needs to be suppressed. There is no scientific or realistic reason why you should keep people from hearing certain words.

98 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:48:55pm

re: #95 darthstar

Joe Scarborough had a dead woman found in his office when he was in congress. Just sayin'...

As I recall it was within a day or two of 9-11 which totally bumped it out of the news.

99 bratwurst  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:48:58pm

re: #94 leftynyc

Didn't downding you for that but will for this.

So you are not a "brain damaged idiot"!

Um, unless downdinging him for this ALSO makes you a "brain damaged idiot", of course.

100 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:50:24pm

Pretty cool. Brick machine rolls out roads like carpet.

101 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:50:36pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

On July 20, 2001, one of Scarborough's aides died after hitting her head on a desk when she fainted while alone in Scarborough's Fort Walton Beach, Florida, office.[23] According to Scarborough, soon after her death, allegations "spread all over the Internet" that he had been involved,[23][24] although there was no evidence of foul play. In 2003, he joked about the incident with Don Imus on Imus's radio program.[25] In 2004, it was the subject of a public spat between Scarborough and filmmaker Michael Moore.[26]

102 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:52:24pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

As I recall is was within a day or two of 9-11 which totally bumped it out of the news.

Friday, July 20th"FORT WALTON BEACH, FL. - Lori Klausutis, a 28-year-old office worker for Rep. Joe Scarborough (R-Fl), was found dead in the congressman's district office. Police said preliminary findings from the medical examiner's office showed no foul play or any outward indication of suicide."

103 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:52:25pm

re: #86 engineer cat

birtherism without racism is like racism without racism

Can agree about 95% on that, but I can also envision people so cynical, so devoted to their interests, class and cause that they will just use it because it's there. I have no proof that Limbaugh, for instance, is a racist or even a conservative. He might be much worse.

104 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:52:58pm

Kurt Vonnnegut's domestic contract...fun read.

[Link: www.openculture.com...]

105 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:53:39pm
106 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:53:43pm

What in the actual fuck?

A well-known Catholic priest who hosts a weekly religious television show said in an interview this week that child sex abusers are often seduced by teenage boys and should not go to jail on a first offense.
...
The Rev. Benedict Groeschel: "At this point, (when) any priest, any clergyman, any social worker, any teacher, any responsible person in society would become involved in a single sexual act -- not necessarily intercourse -- they're done. And I'm inclined to think, on their first offense, they should not go to jail because their intention was not committing a crime."

Of course the guy also defends Sandusky, because obviously.

Keep digging, Rome.

107 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:53:43pm

re: #101 freetoken

Michael Moore.

Ah, ok

108 leftynyc  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:53:59pm

re: #99 bratwurst

So you are not a "brain damaged idiot"!

Um, unless downdinging him for this ALSO makes you a "brain damaged idiot", of course.

Wish I had downdinged him then - I would have been in excellent company.

109 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:54:44pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

Can agree about 95% on that, but I can also envision people so cynical, so devoted to their interests, class and cause that they will just use it because it's there. I have no proof that Limbaugh, for instance, is a racist or even a conservative. He might be much worse.

Attacking people for their race, whether you believe in your heart that they're inferior or believe in your brain that you stand to gain for it, is racism.

110 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:54:57pm

Trending now:

#LyinRyan

111 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:55:45pm

re: #104 darthstar

Kurt Vonnnegut's domestic contract...fun read.

[Link: www.openculture.com...]

Why do you hate union bricklayers!?!?
/

WRONG POST!!

112 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:56:20pm

re: #106 erik_t

What in the actual fuck?

Of course the guy also defends Sandusky, because obviously.

Keep digging, Rome.

I hope that investigators are looking very closely at him.

113 allegro  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:56:20pm

re: #106 erik_t

A well-known Catholic priest who hosts a weekly religious television show said in an interview this week that child sex abusers are often seduced by teenage boys and should not go to jail on a first offense.

Yeah, those pimple-faced pubescent cuties with their seductive ways are a danger to priests everywhere. What the actual fuck, indeed. These guys are some pieces of work.

114 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:56:21pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

Can agree about 95% on that, but I can also envision people so cynical, so devoted to their interests, class and cause that they will just use it because it's there. I have no proof that Limbaugh, for instance, is a racist or even a conservative. He might be much worse.

Yeah. But the reason it started, and caught on, and spread, is entirely rooted in racism and xenophobia.

The reason it's cossetted along by Romney et al. is because it's politically useful in appealing to the white GOP base-- in other words, their usage of it is also racist. So, it's a nice double-racist whammy.

116 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:57:33pm

re: #100 darthstar

Pretty cool. Brick machine rolls out roads like carpet.

Why do you hate union bricklayers!?!?

(I need a nap)

117 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:57:59pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

Why do you hate union bricklayers!?!?

(I need a nap)

I was waiting for you to catch that.

118 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:58:19pm

re: #109 erik_t

Attacking people for their race, whether you believe in your heart that they're inferior or believe in your brain that you stand to gain for it, is racism.

You are too forgiving. In my book it's a kind of treason. I can find a few invincibly ignorant racists on a five minute walk.

119 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:58:52pm

re: #117 darthstar

I was waiting for you to catch that.

heh

I blame the dogs,,, it's 3 minutes before dinner and,, well, ,THEY KNOW!!!

120 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:59:45pm

re: #73 Obdicut

Can you explain the thought process that leads you to believe that birtherism-- the belief that the Kenyan-fathered, half-black half-white Barack Obama was not really born in Hawaii (despite no reason, indication, or evidence that he was born elsewhere)-- is not rooted in racism?

Specifically, why has this never come up with any other US-born Democratic candidate before?

I simply see them as arising from the same wellspring of ignorance and bigotry that leads to racism.

121 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:00:12pm

I hope Clint Eastwood talks about gay marriage and the GM bailout, though it would actually help the GOP if he changed the tone of their convention by calling on them to pull their heads out of their asses and stop being so ignorant.

122 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:00:12pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, people like Chris Mathews have just overused the racism accusation to the point of absurdity. Birtherism is stupid on its own and gilding the lilly with the accusation of racism just clouds the issue. There's plenty of real racism and overusing the accusation only provides cover for the racists.

Hey KT. Why don't you go make your case to ABL.

124 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:01:26pm

re: #106 erik_t

What in the actual fuck?

Of course the guy also defends Sandusky, because obviously.

Keep digging, Rome.

I think this falls under "legitimate statutory rape"....

125 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:01:27pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

heh

I blame the dogs,,, it's 3 minutes before dinner and,, well, ,THEY KNOW!!!

Dogs...I've got two extras today (babysitting for my brother)...about pulled my shoulder out on the way to the beach this morning.

Image: 557362_10151152731058024_1157070420_n.jpg
Image: 260544_10151152847608024_1921274816_n.jpg

126 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:01:39pm

re: #122 Gus

Hey KT. Why don't you go make your case to ABL.

[Embedded content]

She's perfectly entitled to her own opinion.

127 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:02:17pm

Heh - 7 things that are inarguably true in Ryan's speech.

"There she is — my Mom, Betty."
Fact-check: True. Paul Ryan's mom was there.
"My Dad, a small-town lawyer, was also named Paul."
Fact-check: True. Paul Ryan's father was named Paul.
"I live on the same block where I grew up."
Fact-check: True. Ryan still lives on the same block where he grew up.
"President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis."
Fact-check: True. President Obama came to office during an economic crisis.
"My home state voted for President Obama."
Fact-check: True. Obama carried Wisconsin in 2008.
"My wonderful grandma, Janet, had Alzheimer's and moved in with Mom and me."
Fact-check: True. Ryan's grandmother moved in with him and his mother.
"[President Obama] created a bipartisan debt commission."
Fact-check: True. President Obama created a bipartisan debt commission.
"Mom was 50 when my Dad died."
Fact-check: True. Ryan's mother was 50 years old when his father died.
"Mitt and I also go to different churches."
Fact-check: True. Ryan is Catholic, while Romney is a Mormon.

You see, a much shorter list of stuff he didn't lie, misrepresent, obfuscate, or exaggerate about.

128 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:02:23pm
129 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:02:34pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

She's perfectly entitled to her own opinion.

Yes, and you're entitled to your privilege.

130 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:02:34pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

She's perfectly entitled to her own opinion.

as long as she keeps it to herself.

131 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:02:48pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

She's perfectly entitled to her own opinion.

You haven't actually explained your position, though. You haven't explained the thought process that leads you to believe that birtherism-- the belief that the Kenyan-fathered, half-black half-white Barack Obama was not really born in Hawaii (despite no reason, indication, or evidence that he was born elsewhere)-- is not rooted in racism.

Could you explain?

132 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:02:51pm

re: #125 darthstar

Dogs...I've got two extras today (babysitting for my brother)...about pulled my shoulder out on the way to the beach this morning.

Image: 557362_10151152731058024_1157070420_n.jpg
Image: 260544_10151152847608024_1921274816_n.jpg

Looks as if thats officially "his" frisbee, huh?

133 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:03:07pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

She's perfectly entitled to her own opinion.

So why is Obama the only presidential candidate in modern times to face substantial doubt about his citizenship, if not racism?

I mean, I'm concerned you don't have a backup theory here.

134 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:03:46pm

re: #130 darthstar

and I won;'t get downdinged as long as I agree with it!

135 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:04:20pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

Looks as if thats officially "his" frisbee, huh?

Yep...nobody plays with Banjo's frisbee but Banjo.

Here's a good shot of my brother's dogs running through the water...not bad for a phone pic.

Image: 533222_10151152849983024_1978341323_n.jpg

136 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:04:26pm

Black people crying because people were demanding to see Obama's birth certificate is an "opinion."

That just cracks me up.

137 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:04:41pm

re: #135 darthstar

Yep...nobody plays with Banjo's frisbee but Banjo.

Here's a good shot of my brother's dogs running through the water...not bad for a phone pic.

Image: 533222_10151152849983024_1978341323_n.jpg

nice!

138 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:05:13pm

re: #127 lawhawk

Heh - 7 things that are inarguably true in Ryan's speech.

You see, a much shorter list of stuff he didn't lie, misrepresent, obfuscate, or exaggerate about.

Gives him a lifetime score of "mostly true' on Politifact.

139 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:05:37pm
140 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:05:39pm

I still haven't seen Mitt's birth certificate. How can we really be sure he's a natural born citizen and not actually from Mexico?

141 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:05:50pm

re: #120 Expand Your Ground

I simply see them as arising from the same wellspring of ignorance and bigotry that leads to racism.

I really don't get why people are taking this stance.

Birthers are working to somehow get Obama out of office because of his skin color. Not because of his preference of socks, or favorite baseball team, or what toothpaste he uses.

Pretending it's not racism just digs the race relations hole this country has been standing in for two plus centuries that much deeper.

142 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:06:11pm

re: #140 Kragar

I still haven't seen Mitt's birth certificate. How can we really be sure he's a natural born citizen and not actually from Mexico?

I can tell from the high-RGB-valued pixels.

143 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:07:53pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

She's perfectly entitled to her own opinion.

And you're entitled to yours.

And we're entitled to mock your lame defense of it.

144 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:08:48pm

I tell you what. When Imani posted that Tweet it made me cry. To consider that just an "opinion" is beyond absurd.

145 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:09:05pm

re: #143 gwangung

And you're entitled to yours.

And we're entitled to mock your defense of it.

"mocking" is always such a useful debate technique!

(damn!!)

146 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:10:14pm

re: #145 sattv4u2

"mocking" is always such a useful debate technique!

Almost as good as passive-aggressiveness!

147 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:10:33pm

re: #144 Gus

The amount of patriotism that black Americans have is amazing, given the history and the continuing legal and social racism directed at them.

148 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:10:51pm

re: #140 Kragar

I still haven't seen Mitt's birth certificate. How can we really be sure he's a natural born citizen and not actually from Mexico?

Anti-Mormonist!

149 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:11:08pm

Excuse me while I bash my head into a wall;

Yahoo's online poll of the day

Whose campaign seems to be fudging more facts?

Barack Obama's 56%

Mitt Romney's 44%

150 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:11:10pm

re: #141 Mattand

I really don't get why people are taking this stance.

Birthers are working to somehow get Obama out of office because of his skin color. Not because of his preference of socks, or favorite baseball team, or what toothpaste he uses.

Pretending it's not racism just digs the race relations hole this country has been standing in for two plus centuries that much deeper.

There are people on Dick Morris' bus route who don't give a shit about Obama's race. They despise a white garbage tipper as much as they despise a black schoolteacher. The President is their enemy and they want him gone, and will use any tool to do it.

151 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:11:17pm

re: #146 JamesWI

Almost as good as passive-aggressiveness!

Or stealth downdinging!!

152 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:11:50pm

re: #149 Kragar

Excuse me while I bash my head into a wall;

Yahoo's online poll of the day

Whose campaign seems to be fudging more facts?

Barack Obama's 56%

Mitt Romney's 44%

Yahoo. Online poll. Meh.

153 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:12:05pm

re: #113 allegro

Yeah, those pimple-faced pubescent cuties with their seductive ways are a danger to priests everywhere. What the actual fuck, indeed. These guys are some pieces of work.

That could be an Onion article. In fact, it was an Onion article (not this one specifically, but a story expressing the same sentiment).

154 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:12:09pm

re: #151 sattv4u2

Or stealth downdinging!!

I downding stupid comments. I can't help the fact that many of yours happen to qualify for that distinction.

155 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:12:23pm

re: #149 Kragar

Yahoo's online poll of the day

Two terrifying derps in one line, right there.

156 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:12:34pm

re: #149 Kragar

Excuse me while I bash my head into a wall;

Yahoo's online poll of the day

Whose campaign seems to be fudging more facts?

Barack Obama's 56%

Mitt Romney's 44%

online polls are pretty much whoever side gets to it first.

157 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:13:01pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Anti-Mormonist!

Yep. If Birtherism had begun as a conspiracy theory about Mitt Romney's birth location given his Mormon family's history in Mexico, it'd probably be rooted in anti-Mormonism.

Just as the real Birtherism, the conspiracy theory about Barack Obama's birth location, is rooted in anti-black prejudice.

158 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:13:35pm

Romney on TV right now making sure the teleprompters are the right height.

159 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:14:41pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

online polls are pretty much whoever side gets to it first.

Trying to take anything out of Yahoo stories/polls is an exercise in futility. One day, the popular comments will be full of outright racists. The next day, it will be Ron Paul fanatics, the day after that left-wing nuts.

160 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:14:48pm

Not unrelated to the whole racism and birtherism issues:

Scientists reconstruct genetic makeup of 50,000-year-old girl

Scientists have reconstructed the entire genetic makeup of a girl who lived and died in a Siberian cave more than 50,000 years ago. The young woman belonged to an ancient and long extinct group of humans called Denisovans, their existence known only from meagre fossil remains uncovered at the Denisova cave in the Altai mountains in 2008. These ancient relatives are thought to have occupied much of Asia tens of thousands of years ago. Previous tests on the remains found they were more closely related to Neanderthals than modern humans.

Writing in the journal Science, researchers in the US and Germany describe how they sequenced the girl's genome with an accuracy that was once considered impossible with such ancient specimens. The final sequence matched the quality of modern genetic tests on living people.

[...]

Paper is here:

A High-Coverage Genome Sequence from an Archaic Denisovan Individual

We present a DNA library preparation method that has allowed us to reconstruct a high-coverage (30X) genome sequence of a Denisovan, an extinct relative of Neandertals. The quality of this genome allows a direct estimation of Denisovan heterozygosity, indicating that genetic diversity in these archaic hominins was extremely low. It also allows tentative dating of the specimen on the basis of “missing evolution” in its genome, detailed measurements of Denisovan and Neandertal admixture into present-day human populations, and the generation of a near-complete catalog of genetic changes that swept to high frequency in modern humans since their divergence from Denisovans.

Some important observations:


Archaic Human DNA Reveals its Secrets

[...]

Among the study results, the researchers found that the Denisovans share more genes with individuals from Papua New Guinea than any other population, and that more Denisovan alleles were common with those of Asian and South American populations than European populations. The study authors suggest that the latter reflects interbreeding between modern humans and the Neandertals, who are also related to Neanderthals, rather than direct gene flow from the Denisovans. In addition, the study reports several other findings: One, that the Denisovan genome contained alleles that correspond to alleles in present-day humans that are associated with dark skin, brown hair and brown eyes; two, that there were a number of genetic changes in modern humans that occurred after the split from the Denisovans; and three, that Denisovan genetic diversity was extremely low, due, they suggest, to a small initial population that grew quickly, without time for genetic diversity to increase to any substantial degree. Along this vain [sic], the authors suggest that if further research shows that the Neanderthal population size changed over time in a similar way, it could mean that a single population expanding out of Africa gave rise to both the Denisovans and Neandertals.

[...]

From the CBS website write-up there is a discussion on the genetic changes that have happened to us versus the Denisovan split, including most importantly changes to brain and nerve genes.

[continued]

161 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:14:51pm

We've had presidents that had foreign born parents before so why does Obama get the most scrutiny? Plus the constant referring to him with disgust as "THE KENYAN" or as "AN ARAB" which McCain had to call out that crazy woman on. I think birtherism is more about xenophobia than racial prejudice but it's about bigotry none the less and that's why it's disgusting.

162 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:14:53pm

Not unrelated to the whole racism and birtherism issues:

Scientists reconstruct genetic makeup of 50,000-year-old girl

Scientists have reconstructed the entire genetic makeup of a girl who lived and died in a Siberian cave more than 50,000 years ago. The young woman belonged to an ancient and long extinct group of humans called Denisovans, their existence known only from meagre fossil remains uncovered at the Denisova cave in the Altai mountains in 2008. These ancient relatives are thought to have occupied much of Asia tens of thousands of years ago. Previous tests on the remains found they were more closely related to Neanderthals than modern humans.

Writing in the journal Science, researchers in the US and Germany describe how they sequenced the girl's genome with an accuracy that was once considered impossible with such ancient specimens. The final sequence matched the quality of modern genetic tests on living people.

[...]

Paper is here:

A High-Coverage Genome Sequence from an Archaic Denisovan Individual

We present a DNA library preparation method that has allowed us to reconstruct a high-coverage (30X) genome sequence of a Denisovan, an extinct relative of Neandertals. The quality of this genome allows a direct estimation of Denisovan heterozygosity, indicating that genetic diversity in these archaic hominins was extremely low. It also allows tentative dating of the specimen on the basis of “missing evolution” in its genome, detailed measurements of Denisovan and Neandertal admixture into present-day human populations, and the generation of a near-complete catalog of genetic changes that swept to high frequency in modern humans since their divergence from Denisovans.

Some important observations:


Archaic Human DNA Reveals its Secrets

[...]

Among the study results, the researchers found that the Denisovans share more genes with individuals from Papua New Guinea than any other population, and that more Denisovan alleles were common with those of Asian and South American populations than European populations. The study authors suggest that the latter reflects interbreeding between modern humans and the Neandertals, who are also related to Neanderthals, rather than direct gene flow from the Denisovans. In addition, the study reports several other findings: One, that the Denisovan genome contained alleles that correspond to alleles in present-day humans that are associated with dark skin, brown hair and brown eyes; two, that there were a number of genetic changes in modern humans that occurred after the split from the Denisovans; and three, that Denisovan genetic diversity was extremely low, due, they suggest, to a small initial population that grew quickly, without time for genetic diversity to increase to any substantial degree. Along this vain [sic], the authors suggest that if further research shows that the Neanderthal population size changed over time in a similar way, it could mean that a single population expanding out of Africa gave rise to both the Denisovans and Neandertals.

[...]

From the CBS website write-up there is a discussion on the genetic changes that have happened to us versus the Denisovan split, including most importantly changes to brain and nerve genes.

[continued]

163 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:15:02pm

[continued]

Ok, here is where we start getting into strange and difficult things - from the Guardian article:

Chris Stringer, head of human origins at the Natural History Museum in London, said further genetic studies might shed light on the biological differences between homo sapiens and the Neanderthal and Denisovan populations they replaced after they left Africa around 60,000 years ago. "Perhaps some of the skin and eye-related ones reflect resistance to diseases in the African homeland of modern humans, but the brain-related ones hint at possible enhancements in brain structure and function in our species," he said.

He said the low genetic diversity of the Denisovans may indicate that they only expanded into regions like the Altai mountains in southern Siberia in small numbers and during warm spells.

There are two bombshells waiting to be exploded, and one of them has to do with racism.

Stringer is a convert to the Recent Out Of Africa (ROOA) theory, which posits that sapiens left Africa (probably East Africa) 60 to 70 thousand years ago. He has also recently begun to accept that at the beginning of this migration there might have been a few interbreeding episodes between Neanderthals and sapiens in SW Asia.

The other dominant, and older, theory is one of multiregionalism, that is, we modern humans developed from many groups of Homo spread out over Eurasia and Africa, though there was an "out of Africa" migration long ago, very long ago (perhaps hundreds of thousands of years), and that gene flow occurred here and there over many, many years. There may have been a particular group in East Africa or SW Asia which now dominates our ancestry (we see via DNA), but that has to do with population bottlenecks, and later migration.

Racists have found ways to exploit both ideas to propagate their biases.

That's one bombshell.

The other bombshell has to with those mutations that these latest Denisovan articles discuss. The anti-vaxxers are not only on the wrong path, but the very nature of autism itself, when it is discovered that there are indeed several recent genetic changes having to do with brain and nerve development, gives us insight into what it means to be human.

There does appear to have been genetic changes recently that have made us who we are as "modern humans". Now, this wasn't 6000 years ago a la Genesis genealogy, but over roughly the past 50,000 years.

This is just one more example of how we have a rapidly diversifying genome - from a bottleneck somewhere around the last interglacial to a huge population today.

IOW, we have changed dramatically the past 100,000 years or so, at least in some fundamental mental capacity. If you had a time machine to go back 100,000 years yes, you could interbreed with the humans of the time, but you wouldn't be able to have a "relationship" with them.

Anyway, more stuff to think about.

164 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:15:11pm

re: #154 JamesWI

I downding stupid comments. I can't help the fact that many of yours happen to qualify for that distinction.

Point them out and we'll debate them

OR

Just continue to downding me after the fact and feel good!

165 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:15:27pm

re: #149 Kragar

Excuse me while I bash my head into a wall;

Yahoo's online poll of the day

Whose campaign seems to be fudging more facts?

Barack Obama's 56%

Mitt Romney's 44%

Those things can be easily spammed. I would be interested to see a real world poll on that. I still suspect public opinion would be fairly evenly divided. More people are paying attention to fact checkers recently and the Obama campaign has made some dishonest Bain/tax claims so neither side has a monopoly on factual accuracy.

166 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:15:28pm

re: #159 JamesWI

Trying to take anything out of Yahoo stories/polls is an exercise in futility. One day, the popular comments will be full of outright racists. The next day, it will be Ron Paul fanatics, the day after that left-wing nuts.

Yeah pretty much. In other words, online polls are all about which side has more time on their side today.

167 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:16:40pm

re: #163 freetoken

You should page this.

168 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:17:19pm

re: #163 freetoken

(scrolls)
(scrolls)
(scrolls)
(scrolls)


Might be a good page topic. I'm just sayin'...

169 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:17:39pm

re: #141 Mattand

I really don't get why people are taking this stance.

Birthers are working to somehow get Obama out of office because of his skin color. Not because of his preference of socks, or favorite baseball team, or what toothpaste he uses.

Pretending it's not racism just digs the race relations hole this country has been standing in for two plus centuries that much deeper.

I agree with you 99.44%, but I am just very hesitant to use the term racism unless it is clear-cut and consistent. I still think it is bigoted and stupid and that most birthers are probably racists, but a lot of them are just cynical assholes who are trying to use it to their advantage.

Fortunately, most of them are too dumb to see how badly they are failing at doing anything other than preaching to the converted and putting off anyone with half a brain. Heck, even Karl Rove tried to warn his fellow conservatives tht it might be a "trap".

170 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:18:37pm

re: #168 erik_t

(scrolls)
(scrolls)
(scrolls)
(scrolls)

Might be a good page topic. I'm just sayin'...

You may want to re-think that

Tomorrow is Friday

There's ALWAYS a pop quiz on Fridays!!

//

171 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:01pm

re: #169 Expand Your Ground

I think the cynical exploitation of racism is still a racist action. The person may not hold racist views, but they are still doing something racist.

172 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:19pm

re: #149 Kragar

Excuse me while I bash my head into a wall;

Yahoo's online poll of the day

Whose campaign seems to be fudging more facts?

Barack Obama's 56%

Mitt Romney's 44%

There is some incredible notion that there is some objective and incontovertible standard of "100% truth" against which all statements can be judged.

That is one of the countless smoke bombs being tossed out there in order to let the Big Lies sneak through undetected.

173 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:19pm

Oh look, we got our very first Twitchy troll!

174 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:21pm

re: #169 Expand Your Ground

I agree with you 99.44%, but I am just very hesitant to use the term racism unless it is clear-cut and consistent. I still think it is bigoted and stupid and that most birthers are probably racists, but a lot of them are just cynical assholes who are trying to use it to their advantage.

I repeat myself: If you're attacking someone's race for your own advantage, you are a racist. That is racism.

175 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:28pm

re: #169 Expand Your Ground

but I am just very hesitant to use the term racism unless it is clear-cut and consistent. I still think it is bigoted and stupid and that most birthers are probably racists, but a lot of them are just cynical assholes who are trying to use it to their advantage.

repeated because, well, it should be

176 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:41pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Point them out and we'll debate them

OR

Just continue to downding me after the fact and feel good!

Your style of commenting doesn't really lend itself to "debate," considering most of them are in the passive aggressive/sarcastic/whiny stylings of your comments on this thread: i.e. re: #134 sattv4u2

and I won;'t get downdinged as long as I agree with it!

re: #145 sattv4u2

"mocking" is always such a useful debate technique!

Debating concern trolls isn't worth anyone's time.

177 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:19:51pm
178 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:20:16pm

re: #173 Interesting Times

Oh look, we got our very first Twitchy troll!

BRB. I gotta go grab my special Downdingin' Mouse.

179 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:21:30pm

re: #177 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I find the Eastwood choice kind of interesting after he got some of the right wing's ire for the Super Bowl ad and he recently said who gives a shit if gays want to get married.

180 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:21:38pm

re: #176 JamesWI

Debating concern trolls isn't worth anyone's time.

Yet here you are talking to me,, AND take time out to stealth downding me

Odd, that

181 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:22:08pm

Are all Birthers racists? Maybe not all, but it's a conspiracy theory that springs from racism, and the fact that it's often accompanied by good old-fashioned "go back to Africa" rhetoric ought to be your first clue.

It's one of those right wing hate memes that has a thin facade of deniability.

182 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:22:15pm

re: #180 sattv4u2


Debating concern trolls isn't worth anyone's time.

Yet here you are talking to me,, AND take time out to stealth downding me

Odd, that

Funny that I haven't downdinged a single one of your comments on this thread, or probably for the past few weeks, and you're still whining about it.

183 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:22:52pm

re: #182 JamesWI

Funny that I haven't downdinged a single one of your comments on this thread, or probably for the past few weeks

Not that we see. Because stealth.

Don't you even know how stealth works!?

184 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:23:14pm
185 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:23:32pm

re: #182 JamesWI

Funny that I haven't downdinged a single one of your comments on this thread, or probably for the past few weeks, and you're still whining about it.

Not "still"

1st time, actually. Due to it being the 1st time you've actually engaged me in convo

So as far as "whining",,, after all the stealth ones you have given me ,, not so much

186 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:23:48pm

Well, there is something good that can be said of Condi...

187 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:24:17pm

re: #185 sattv4u2

Not "still"

1st time, actually. Due to it being the 1st time you've actually engaged me in convo

So as far as "whining",,, after all the stealth ones you have given me ,, not so much

How can you see them if they're 'stealth'?

188 bratwurst  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:24:32pm
189 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:24:36pm

re: #185 sattv4u2

Not "still"

1st time, actually. Due to it being the 1st time you've actually engaged me in convo

So as far as "whining",,, after all the stealth ones you have given me ,, not so much

Any whining about something as useless as "downdings" is pathetic, and a sign that you put way too much stock into imaginary ratings on a blog.

190 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:24:56pm

re: #183 erik_t

Not that we see. Because stealth.

Don't you even know how stealth works!?

The cloaking device is broken!

191 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:25:06pm

re: #188 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

Does that mean Rene Russo will also be speaking? or Matt LeBlanc?

192 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:25:12pm

re: #174 erik_t

I repeat myself: If you're attacking someone's race for your own advantage, you are a racist. That is racism.

that's just the 0.66% difference between your definition of "racism" and mine.

193 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:25:15pm

re: #189 JamesWI

Any whining about something as useless as "downdings" is pathetic, and a sign that you put way too much stock into imaginary ratings on a blog.

Yet you use them!

Odd, huh!

194 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:25:42pm

re: #193 sattv4u2

Yet you use them!

Odd, huh!

And I don't cry about it if somebody gives me one!

Odd, huh!

195 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:26:02pm

re: #185 sattv4u2

Not "still"

1st time, actually. Due to it being the 1st time you've actually engaged me in convo

So as far as "whining",,, after all the stealth ones you have given me ,, not so much

Wait. You're pissy about getting down-dinged on a blog? Really?

196 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:26:07pm

re: #192 Expand Your Ground

that's just the 0.66% difference between your definition of "racism" and mine.

If 'attacking someone based on their race' isn't the definition of racism, well, I've got to confess to being just a little bit stumped.

197 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:26:37pm

re: #194 JamesWI

And I don't cry about it if somebody gives me one!

Odd, huh!

Making an observation is not crying

But you know that. It's just WHO is making the observation that seems to be the bone of contention!

198 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:26:42pm

re: #192 Expand Your Ground

that's just the 0.66% difference between your definition of "racism" and mine.

From the view of the person who's the object of racism, there isn't a functional difference between the two.

And a difference that makes no difference IS no difference.

199 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:27:01pm

re: #167 Learned Mother of Zion

re: #168 erik_t

There have been several Pages about this posted as news links in the last year by various people, and I suspect we'll see more over time as news items about anthropology pop up regularly.

At this time my concern, if I may use that word, is more than just my curiosity about evolution. It's about racism, that it is more fundamental to us as humans than we like to admit, that this is a very deep and old problem, and because of its ubiquity it is always there for the right demagogues at the right time.

Our invention we call "morality" exists, I propose, in part to deal with this problem. Civilization and moral codes are quite young (from a geologic perspective), and no doubt were first created to deal with family issues (say, of mates and offspring.) Yet along the way this whole issue of the "other", the one from outside not just our family or clan but the truly other - different color, different hair, different size, different language - certainly drove some of the ideas of morality and how to treat "people".

200 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:27:22pm

re: #195 makeitstop

Wait. You're pissy about getting down-dinged on a blog? Really?

I'm about to throw out some e-threats and get e-macho if people don't get e-along.

201 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:27:23pm

re: #195 makeitstop

Wait. You're pissy about getting down-dinged on a blog? Really?

Can we see our historical downding record? That's more interesting than our updings.

202 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:27:28pm

re: #186 darthstar

Well, there is something good that can be said of Condi...

[Embedded content]

Condi's speech is the only RNC speech I've watched. She was surprisingly passionate, she usually much more reserved. The content was decent but the occasional statements praising Mitt and Ryan seemed like they were just randomly inserted into a pre-existing speech.

203 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:27:43pm

Someone tell Jim Hoft that someone's got designs on his Stupidest Man on the Internet ceremonial helmet.

After a morning of reading pieces about Paul Ryan’s Lies and Paul Ryan’s Distortions and Paul Ryan’s Distorted Lies, I am impressed and alarmed at the depth of scrutiny and vigorous insistence on literal truth in every phrase. I wish these fact-checkers had been around for history’s great speeches, when we could have gotten some really prime commentary.

For instance.

Franklin Roosevelt: “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”

FACT: False! We have many things to fear, including ebola, Spanish influenza and the rise of Hitler.

Martin Luther King Jr.: “I have a dream that the brotherhood of man will become a reality in this age!”

FACT: False! Is that a dream, Dr. King? Isn’t it more of an aspiration that you have? If you are dreaming, why aren’t you in REM sleep now?

204 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:27:48pm

re: #183 erik_t

Not that we see. Because stealth.

Don't you even know how stealth works!?

What the hell is "stealth downdinging" anyway?

205 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:28:30pm

re: #201 Decatur Deb

Can we see our historical downding record? That's more interesting than our updings.

I've never even checked mine. Maybe someday I will.

206 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:28:57pm

re: #204 Sionainn

What the hell is "stealth downdinging" anyway?

Not responding to whatever one finds so onerous
Waiting till the thread is dead or the poster leaves

then hitting the button

207 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:28:58pm

re: #198 gwangung

From the view of the person who's the object of racism, there isn't a functional difference between the two.

And a difference that makes no difference IS no difference.

From the point of view of preventing it there is a difference. Racists can be slowly educated away from it. Cynics are a different problem.

208 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:28:59pm

re: #197 sattv4u2

Making an observation is not crying

But you know that. It's just WHO is making the observation that seems to be the bone of contention!

You definitely sound whiny. Just bringing up the fact that someone *GASP* downdings you!!!! is pathetic enough, and your need to try to make it sound less pathetic than it is only makes it more so.

209 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:29:04pm

re: #186 darthstar

I thought the biggest cheer went to "357 Magnum".

210 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:30:08pm

re: #209 freetoken

I thought the biggest cheer went to "357 Magnum".

Definitely - Susana Martinez really got the crowd going by bragging about her big gun.

211 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:30:17pm

re: #208 JamesWI

You definitely sound whiny. Just bringing up the fact that someone *GASP* downdings you!!!! is pathetic enough, and your need to try to make it sound less pathetic than it is only makes it more so.

I wear them as a badge of honor!

(how's that!!)

212 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:30:24pm

re: #169 Expand Your Ground

I agree with you 99.44%, but I am just very hesitant to use the term racism unless it is clear-cut and consistent. I still think it is bigoted and stupid and that most birthers are probably racists, but a lot of them are just cynical assholes who are trying to use it to their advantage.

Fortunately, most of them are too dumb to see how badly they are failing at doing anything other than preaching to the converted and putting off anyone with half a brain. Heck, even Karl Rove tried to warn his fellow conservatives tht it might be a "trap".

I'm honestly trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your line of reasoning is just serving to give cover to the inherent bigotry in birtherism.

This "movement" starts and ends with the color in the President's skin. If someone is cynically exploiting the racism of others, they're racists. You can't intellectually separate the two.

213 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:30:39pm

Doggies need dinner

BBIAB

214 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:30:41pm

re: #206 sattv4u2

Not responding to whatever one finds so onerous
Waiting till the thread is dead or the poster leaves

then hitting the button

Sorry if I don't hang out on here all day to see your stupid comments as you make them. Sometimes I only see your stupidity later in the day!

215 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:31:03pm

re: #214 JamesWI

Sorry if I don't hang out on here all day to see your stupid comments as you make them. Sometimes I only see your stupidity later in the day!

Well, thanks for stalking me!!

216 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:31:24pm

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

217 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:09pm

re: #106 erik_t

What in the actual fuck?

Of course the guy also defends Sandusky, because obviously.

Keep digging, Rome.

"People have this picture in their minds of a person planning to - a psychopath. But that's not the case. Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster -- 14, 16, 18 -- is the seducer," Groeschel is quoted as saying in the interview, which is no longer available on the paper's website.

The interview, billed as a reflection on the 25 years since Groeschel founded the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal order, covered many topics, but has gained attention for Groeschel's comments on child sex abuse.

"Well, it's not so hard to see. A kid looking for a father and didn't have his own -- and they won't be planning to get into heavy-duty sex, but almost romantic, embracing, kissing, perhaps sleeping, but not having intercourse or anything like that. I's an understandable thing, and you know where you find it, among other clergy or important people; you look at teachers, attorneys, judges, social workers," he said.

I'm pretty sure I already know what everyone is thinking on this so since I do no want to get myself banned, I'm just going to let this speak for itself.

218 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:12pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

Well, thanks for stalking me!!

Ah yes...."stalking" = reading through a post's comments and noticing that you say stupid shit.

Keep on crying! It makes you look so cool!

219 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:30pm

Have we found out who the big mystery speaker is yet?

220 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:39pm

re: #196 erik_t

If 'attacking someone based on their race' isn't the definition of racism, well, I've got to confess to being just a little bit stumped.

It's as close as dammit, just a thinly veiled attempt at hiding it. I just will not use the word unless it is a clear-cut case. You can, I won't take you to task over it, I just won't use it myself.

221 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:45pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

Shit, all he has to do is ask to borrow one from the audience. They could probably throw them onstage like panties and hotel keys at a Tom Jones concert.

222 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:56pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

He could carry it at port arms, just like they taught him in basic...oh...

223 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:32:59pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

re: #215 sattv4u2

Damn, those pups eat fast.

224 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:33:00pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

Too Ted Nugenty.

225 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:34:10pm

re: #207 Decatur Deb

From the point of view of preventing it there is a difference. Racists can be slowly educated away from it. Cynics are a different problem.

This is so; however I might propose that separating the people is a bit different from separating the action.

226 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:34:14pm

re: #222 Decatur Deb

He could carry it at port arms, just like they taught him in basic...oh...

He could come on stage with a check and ask if anyone around here would be able to cash it.

227 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:34:25pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

then again they may mistake him for a T1000.

228 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:34:32pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

He's bringing out Clint Eastwood to keep people from taking early flights home.

229 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:34:57pm

re: #206 sattv4u2

Not responding to whatever one finds so onerous
Waiting till the thread is dead or the poster leaves

then hitting the button

Well, I may be guilty of doing that. If I see what I consider a particularly appalling post, I'll downding it. I don't check to see if the poster is still on the page or not. I may have even done it when a new page comes up and I'm still on the old one.

230 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:36:29pm

re: #210 Charles Johnson

Definitely - Susana Martinez really got the crowd going by bragging about her big gun.

The very same Susana Martinez who dissed Custer?
//

231 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:37:04pm

Ok, I'm well over my Chris Mathews video quota for the month. Wingnuts are excited today over Mathews claiming mentions of "Chicago" style politics is racist. Meh, maybe but probably not. The "chicago" accusations are stupid enough on their own and there's really no need to counter with accusations of racism.

232 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:38:11pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

It's a good thing the RNC had the foresight to allow firearms into the convention!

/

233 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:38:18pm

re: #219 dragonfire1981

Have we found out who the big mystery speaker is yet?

Clint Eastwood

234 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:39:10pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

Ok, I'm well over my Chris Mathews video quota for the month. Wingnuts are excited today over Mathews claiming mentions of "Chicago" style politics is racist. Meh, maybe but probably not. The "chicago" accusations are stupid enough on their own and there's really no need to counter with accusations of racism.

...and this is why Mathews and the over use of racism claims is counter productive. The wingnuts love it and it provides cover for more serious problems of racism and ethnic nationalism. Mathews is not helpful.

235 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:39:39pm

re: #233 Sionainn

Clint Eastwood

But is it the Eastwood who did Dirty Harry, or the Eastwood who did Bird?

236 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:40:03pm

re: #233 Sionainn

Clint Eastwood

That's rather unfortunate. Mr. Eastwood has a great presence about him. I'm sure Mitt will seem rather wooden and disconnected compared to his "opening act".

237 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:40:18pm

re: #235 Decatur Deb

But is it the Eastwood who did Dirty Harry, or the Eastwood who did Bird?

Probably the Eastwood who was in Gran Torino.

238 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:40:37pm

re: #234 Killgore Trout

...and this is why Mathews and the over use of racism claims is counter productive. The wingnuts love it and it provides cover for more serious problems of racism and ethnic nationalism. Mathews is not helpful.

We are groping towards a definition of "legitimate racism".

239 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:40:53pm

No racism here.

Image: original.jpg

240 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:41:13pm

re: #235 Decatur Deb

But is it the Eastwood who did Dirty Harry, or the Eastwood who did Bird?

Would you believe I've never seen either of those?

241 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:41:22pm

re: #234 Killgore Trout

Mathews is not helpful.

He may not be, but (1) given the viewership numbers it probably doesn't matter one way or another as far as American on the whole, and (2) it's still a fallacy to claim that any assertion is true or false simply because of Mathews' own competence or lack thereof.

242 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:41:23pm

re: #234 Killgore Trout

...and this is why Mathews and the over use of racism claims is counter productive. The wingnuts love it and it provides cover for more serious problems of racism and ethnic nationalism. Mathews is not helpful.

And here we're back to Argument By Repetition.

Over-use, blah blah, whatever. I'm still deeply curious to hear the theory of how birtherism is not a veneer slapped on top of racism.

243 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:42:29pm

re: #236 dragonfire1981

That's rather unfortunate. Mr. Eastwood has a great presence about him. I'm sure Mitt will seem rather wooden and disconnected compared to his "opening act".

I find it amusing since the RWNJs are always sneering about actors opening their mouths about politics, and then they do something like this.

244 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:42:54pm

re: #237 dragonfire1981

Probably the Eastwood who was in Gran Torino.

Haven't seen that one either.

245 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:45:07pm

re: #239 Charles Johnson

No racism here.

Image: original.jpg

That's shocking--they used the right spelling of "its".

246 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:45:19pm
247 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:45:34pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

The US President in Idiocracy did something like that (sprayed a few rounds iirc), altho he seemed to have more reverence for science and experimental methods than many of our politicians.

248 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:45:57pm

re: #241 freetoken

He may not be, but (1) given the viewership numbers it probably doesn't matter one way or another as far as American on the whole, and (2) it's still a fallacy to claim that any assertion is true or false simply because of Mathews' own competence or lack thereof.

Isn't that following into an ad hominen argument?

249 allegro  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:46:00pm

Perhaps someone can clear this up... it isn't that there are too many racists or too many glaring examples of racism... it's that there's too much talk about it?

250 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:46:24pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

I didn't watch the clip because I find Mathews to be an embarrassing buffoon but the shows' hosts didn't seem to appreciate his outburst. It was a big hit with the moonbats though.

Oh, spare me with that tired, jaded routine, of yours, KT.

I'm not even going to give you the negative ding that you apparently crave as of late.

251 palomino  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:47:00pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

I didn't watch the clip because I find Mathews to be an embarrassing buffoon but the shows' hosts didn't seem to appreciate his outburst. It was a big hit with the moonbats though.

No race baiting in the GOP. Nothing to see here. Just move along, right?

Delusional. But, ooh, you're so edgy with your contrarian cut and paste. And your trenchant one sentence defenses thereof are so illuminating. A shell of one's former self. Weak shit all around.

252 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:48:13pm

re: #245 Decatur Deb

That's shocking--they used the right spelling of "its".

Clearly a sign that this is the work of a librul trying to make conservatives look bad.

253 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:49:43pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Piss off...and for these posts, you can have a downding on me.

KTHXBYE

255 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:51:05pm

re: #254 Gus

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race? Racists’

This is why I am very careful about using the term, do not wanna let assholes like this even have an opening.

256 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:51:09pm

re: #254 Gus

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race? Racists’

What say you, Mr. Trump?

/

257 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:51:30pm

re: #254 Gus

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race? Racists’

Heard that in the South, during the 60s.

258 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:51:44pm

re: #247 abolitionist

The US President in Idiocracy did something like that (sprayed a few rounds iirc), altho he seemed to have more reverence for science and experimental methods than many of our politicians.

"You mean put toilet water on them?"

259 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:51:47pm

re: #255 Expand Your Ground

This is why I am very careful about using the term, do not wanna let assholes like this even have an opening.

This would imply that you also prefer to keep marriages heterosexual and offer only civil unions to gays.

260 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:52:33pm

re: #255 Expand Your Ground

This is why I am very careful about using the term, do not wanna let assholes like this even have an opening.

Not sure the targets of racism have that kind of luxury, though.

261 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:53:16pm

re: #254 Gus

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race? Racists’

If you had told me when I was a kid that in the future, adults would make millions from by using the "I know you are but what am I?" insult, I'd have laughed in your face.

If you had told me that bullies rarely get their comeuppance, and sometimes become rich in the process, I'd have been depressed well into my 20's.

262 allegro  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:53:29pm

re: #255 Expand Your Ground

This is why I am very careful about using the term, do not wanna let assholes like this even have an opening.

I'm of the walk + quack = duck school. Trying to parse what may be in someone's head seems entirely beside the point. It's the words and actions that have meaning.

263 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:53:36pm

I guess this means that the ADL is really antisemitic.

#RWNJLogicFail

264 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:54:12pm

re: #254 Gus

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race? Racists’

Hey Rush, know what we call people that use multiple doctors to get illegal scripts? Criminal and drug addicts.

265 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:54:36pm

re: #255 Expand Your Ground

This is why I am very careful about using the term, do not wanna let assholes like this even have an opening.

Did Sandra Fluke give him an opening? He makes his own.

Don't worry about him. Just call it racism when you see it.

266 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:54:41pm

re: #255 Expand Your Ground

This is why I am very careful about using the term, do not wanna let assholes like this even have an opening.

Yeah, being afraid of Rush Limbaugh and his questionable grip on logic and reality really isn't a reason to be silent on racism.

267 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:55:54pm

re: #265 wrenchwench

Did Sandra Fluke give him an opening? He makes his own.

Don't worry about him. Just call it racism when you see it.

You can call it racism, I will just call it fucking stupid. The two overlap to a great extent, especially in the person of Rush Limbaugh.

268 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:56:26pm

re: #264 RayFerd

Hey Rush, know what we call people that use multiple doctors to get illegal scripts? Criminal and drug addicts.

You know what we call people who get viagra prescriptions under false names before vacationing in a country known for its child prostitution? Sexual predators

269 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:57:58pm

I'm sure this will go over well.

Miners charged in deaths of 34 killed by police

About 270 miners were charged Thursday with the murders of 34 striking colleagues who were shot by South African police officers, authorities said, a development that could further infuriate South Africans already shocked and angered by the police action.

The decision to charge the miners comes under an arcane Roman-Dutch common purpose law, and it suggests President Jacob Zuma's government wants to shift blame for the killings from police to the striking miners.

Firebrand politician Julius Malema, who has seized on the shootings to score political points, told supporters of miners outside the courthouse that the charges were "madness."

"The policemen who killed those people are not in custody, not even one of them. This is madness," said Malema, who was expelled from the governing African National Congress in April. "The whole world saw the policemen kill those people."

National Prosecuting Authority spokesman Frank Lesenyego told The Associated Press that "It's the police who were shooting, but they were under attack by the protesters, who were armed, so today the 270 accused are charged with the murders" of those who were shot.

270 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:59:12pm

re: #262 allegro

I'm of the walk + quack = duck school. Trying to parse what may be in someone's head seems entirely beside the point. It's the words and actions that have meaning.

When someone coughs on you, it's useful to know whether they have the flu or tuberculosis.

271 palomino  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:59:30pm

re: #254 Gus

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race? Racists’

Of course there is a big difference between calling out racism (something Limbaugh sees as racist) and actually being racist. But this may be Limbaugh's most lasting and profoundly disturbing contribution to the discourse: he's essentially spent the last two decades telling conservative middle aged and older whites that it's OK to be racist, since the "real racists" are on the other side anyway. As far as race obsession, I don't know of many commentators, regardless of political slant, who inject race into their daily discourse more often than Rush.

272 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:00:04pm

re: #270 Decatur Deb

When someone coughs on you, it's useful to know whether they have the flu or tuberculosis.

The more appropriate analogy in this case would be 'did that asshole just cough on me!?'

273 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:00:07pm

re: #269 Kragar

I'm sure this will go over well.

Miners charged in deaths of 34 killed by police

Straight out of fucking Kafka.

Offka to bed now...

274 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:00:54pm

bbl

275 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:03:19pm

Et tu, Amish folks?

Amish woman testifies bishop on trial forced sex

An Amish bishop accused of orchestrating hair-cutting attacks in Ohio forced women at his settlement to have sex with him so he could turn them into better wives, one of the women testified Thursday.

The woman said what started out as hugs turned into kisses and then sex. She said she resisted at first.

"He would say things like 'I can't understand why you won't obey me, the other ladies can,'" the woman testified. "I always gave up. I was afraid not to."

Prosecutors say the alleged sexual "counseling" of married women shows the control Samuel Mullet Sr. had over followers at the Amish settlement he founded two decades ago. The 16 people accused of carrying out the hair-cutting attacks last fall all lived on Mullet's settlement in eastern Ohio near the West Virginia panhandle.

276 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:04:01pm

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call P

dya know what i call you? a notorious moron

277 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:05:22pm

I haven't watched any of the freak fest this week. Just limited snippets online. I told a friend I'd rather watch baby unicorns burn alive. There was an awkward pause.

278 palomino  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:07:00pm

re: #264 RayFerd

Hey Rush, know what we call people that use multiple doctors to get illegal scripts? Criminal and drug addicts.

One of the real ironies of Limbaugh. By most accounts, he lives his life with no more moral rectitude than the average "liberal Hollywood star" who lives in the fast lane. Multiple wives, drug addiction, illegal purchase of said drugs, self-indulgent excessive smoking and eating, trips to the Caribbean for sex tourism (remember the Viagra in his bags found by airport screeners a few years back).

And yet good God fearing real Americans overlook all that and see him not only as a force for good but an example to be followed. Other than loudly blasting the things his audience hates, of what is he an exemplar?

279 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:08:08pm

re: #278 palomino

One of the real ironies of Limbaugh. By most accounts, he lives his life with no more moral rectitude than the average "liberal Hollywood star" who lives in the fast lane. Multiple wives, drug addiction, illegal purchase of said drugs, self-indulgent excessive smoking and eating, trips to the Caribbean for sex tourism (remember the Viagra in his bags found by airport screeners a few years back).

And yet good God fearing real Americans overlook all that and see him not only as a force for good but an example to be followed. Other than loudly blasting the things his audience hates, of what is he an exemplar?

That a sucker is born every minute.

280 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:08:23pm

Limbaugh Trashes MSNBC: ‘You Know What We Call People Obsessed With Race?

come to think of it, why don't you just supply us with the whole newspeak dictionary, and while you're at it throw in a tour guide to your alternate reality

and a few more eruptions onto my computer machine screen and i'm cutting off all transmissions from your universe

281 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:08:33pm

This is not good.

Isaac weakens but drenches La., Miss. as possible dam failure threatens thousands

(CBS/AP) NEW ORLEANS - Tropical Storm Isaac continued to pound Louisiana and Mississippi Thursday as a dam in a sparsely populated area near the Louisiana-Mississippi border threatened to break, prompting officials to order a mandatory evacuation for as many as 60,000 people.

282 bratwurst  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:08:34pm

re: #256 erik_t

What say you, Mr. Trump?

/

Hey come on...did he not select Arsenio Hall as the last Celebrity Apprentice? /

283 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:10:00pm
284 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:11:32pm

re: #281 Bubblehead II

And from what I gather, there has been only one storm related death

Sad that there's any, but thankful there's not more

285 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:12:29pm

The first time I saw a trailer for this movie I thought it was a joke trailer. It is a real movie and this trailer is much better but it still seems...odd to me.

Branded (2012)

Youtube Video
286 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:12:38pm

Hardball: "Play Mitt-sy for me"

Ha!

287 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:13:33pm

re: #284 sattv4u2

And from what I gather, there has been only one storm related death

Sad that there's any, but thankful there's not more

There was a man in my area who died when a tree limb fell on his vehicle while he was trying to rescue someone else. :(

288 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:14:19pm

re: #278 palomino

One of the real ironies of Limbaugh. By most accounts, he lives his life with no more moral rectitude than the average "liberal Hollywood star" who lives in the fast lane. Multiple wives, drug addiction, illegal purchase of said drugs, self-indulgent excessive smoking and eating, trips to the Caribbean for sex tourism (remember the Viagra in his bags found by airport screeners a few years back).

And yet good God fearing real Americans overlook all that and see him not only as a force for good but an example to be followed. Other than loudly blasting the things his audience hates, of what is he an exemplar?

A lot of the "Family values" politicians/pundits do not practice what they preach.

289 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:14:56pm

re: #287 dragonfire1981

There was a man in my area who died when a tree limb fell on his vehicle while he was trying to rescue someone else. :(

The way I read it, he fell FROM the tree (about 18 feet) Authorities didn't know why he was in the tree

a 36-year-old man had gone to help two friends move a vehicle from under a tree to prepare for Isaac on Tuesday evening, and fell to his death after climbing 18 feet up a tree. Deputies don't know why the man climbed the tree.

Read more: [Link: www.myfoxchicago.com...]

290 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:15:04pm
291 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:15:39pm

re: #290 darthstar

[Embedded content]

"White Hunter Black Heart"

Don't really need to change that one.

292 boredtechindenver  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:15:51pm

re: #31 ShaunP

re: #26 erik_t

Stop it guys, seriously. You keep mentioning "he who must not be named" and people will be reminded when the recession actually started!

Tim Tebow?

293 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:16:41pm

re: #290 darthstar

[Embedded content]

MBillion Dollar BabRomney

294 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:16:44pm

re: #284 sattv4u2

"And from what I gather, there has been only one storm related death

Sad that there's any, but thankful there's not more"

Unfortunately it is now up to two.

In the second reported death tied to Isaac, a tow truck driver was killed Thursday morning when a tree fell on his truck in Picayune, Miss., just across the state line from Louisiana. (Second death reported in link below.)

And they have started a controlled release of water from the dam. Hope it works.

295 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:17:19pm

re: #294 Bubblehead II

Unfortunately it is now up to two.

In the second reported death tied to Isaac, a tow truck driver was killed Thursday morning when a tree fell on his truck in Picayune, Miss., just across the state line from Louisiana. (Second death reported in link below.

And they have started a controlled release of water from the dam. Hope it works.

damn

296 boredtechindenver  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:17:40pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

   NOM, NOM, NOM, FAP, FAP, FAP, NOM, NOM, NOM,   

remember to wash your hands between noms and faps.

297 sagehen  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:17:42pm

re: #235 Decatur Deb

But is it the Eastwood who did Dirty Harry, or the Eastwood who did Bird?

I give odds it's the Eastwood who did "Flags of Our Fathers"/"Letters From Iwo Jima"

298 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:17:57pm

re: #293 sattv4u2

MBillion Dollar BabRomney

Good one! Stealing!

299 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:19:13pm

re: #297 sagehen

I give odds it's the Eastwood who did "Flags of Our Fathers"/"Letters From Iwo Jima"

That Eastwood is far too progressive and sympathetic to non-US soldiers to be welcome in the current Republican party.

300 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:19:20pm
301 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:19:53pm

re: #296 boredtechindenver

remember to wash your hands between noms and faps.

You're creepy.

302 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:20:38pm

re: #294 Bubblehead II

Unfortunately it is now up to two.

In the second reported death tied to Isaac, a tow truck driver was killed Thursday morning when a tree fell on his truck in Picayune, Miss., just across the state line from Louisiana. (Second death reported in link below.

And they have started a controlled release of water from the dam. Hope it works.

That's the death I was talking about. The Picayune man.

303 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:21:24pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney could probably bring the house down if he came onstage brandishing an M16.

Pffft, M16s are so outdated...M4/M4A1s are where it's at with the Black Rifle crowd these days.

///

304 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:21:48pm

re: #297 sagehen

I give odds it's the Eastwood who did "Flags of Our Fathers"/"Letters From Iwo Jima"

I think that one would give the RNC some trouble.

305 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:23:07pm

re: #302 dragonfire1981

You anywhere near that dam?

306 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:23:57pm

re: #305 Bubblehead II

You anywhere near that dam?

No the dam is on the far western edge of the state, I'm to the east of Biloxi. No threat to me.

307 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:24:53pm

i'm perplexed that the man who made the bio film of charlie parker - the genius who virtually invented modern jazz - could possibly endorse this republican ticket

308 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:24:54pm
309 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:25:45pm

re: #306 dragonfire1981

No the dam is on the far western edge of the state, I'm to the east of Biloxi. No threat to me.

Well, get over there! Don't you want to be famous and have your name on TV?
//

310 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:26:10pm

re: #306 dragonfire1981

No the dam is on the far western edge of the state, I'm to the east of Biloxi. No threat to me.

Glad to hear.

311 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:26:41pm

bbiaw, meat world things to do.

312 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:27:51pm

re: #311 Bubblehead II

bbiaw, meat word things to do.

bird is a word

313 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:28:17pm

re: #311 Bubblehead II

bbiaw, meat word things to do.

??

We have a secret daily meat word??

umm,,, FILET MIGNON!!
what do I win!?!?!

314 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:28:55pm

bird lives, but wtf clint?

315 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:29:07pm

re: #309 darthstar

Well, get over there! Don't you want to be famous and have your name on TV?

Olympic Roof Top Sitting!

316 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:29:12pm

re: #313 sattv4u2

??

We have a secret daily meat word??

umm,,, FILET MIGNON!!
what do I win!?!?!

The word is always 'bacon'.

317 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:29:41pm

re: #312 engineer cat

bird is a word

Bird is THE word.

Youtube Video
318 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:30:21pm

re: #316 Decatur Deb

The word is always 'bacon'.

Filets wrapped in bacon!!

works for me

(btw ,,,, had scallops wrapped in prosciutto last night

To Die For

319 danarchy  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:31:15pm

I wonder if this commercial was already in the can before Ryan's speech last night or if they are just getting really good at whipping these things out in a remarkably short time frame.

The Poster

320 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:31:31pm

Time to walk the dog and burn something--wife has left me alone for a week and I'm out of microwaveables. BBfor the RNC.

321 palomino  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:32:10pm

Shocked to hear Sen. Graham speak so candidly about his own party's problems, and to essentially admit the monochromatic weakness of his party's overall appeal.

“The demographics race we’re losing badly,” said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.). “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

322 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:32:33pm

re: #317 Gert Fröbe

Bird is THE word.

[Embedded content]

Classic, but I prefer this version

Youtube Video
323 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:33:29pm

re: #320 Decatur Deb

Time to walk the dog and burn something--wife has left me alone for a week and I'm out of microwaveables. BBfor the RNC.

Might I make a small recommendation?

324 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:35:45pm

re: #323 darthstar

Might I make a small recommendation?

Ha. I've only smoked a half-dozen joints, but one of them was the Big Bambu.

Image: b428cheechchong.jpg

325 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:43:49pm

Okay, That’s the Stupidest Thing I Ever Heard

I like Chuck Todd. He’s one of the more knowledgable and sensible people in political journalism. But this has to rank as one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard anyone say. From this morning on Morning Joe, Todd explains that Democrats wish they had as deep a bench of non-white office-holders as the GOP. “Democrats wish they had the diversity of speakers and deep bench [of the GOP] to show America …”

326 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:48:16pm

re: #312 engineer cat

re: #313 sattv4u2

Ok, Ok, I fixed it. :-)

327 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 3:06:10pm

Local Milwaukee news is tongue bathing Paul Ryan for his speech. Completely whitewashing the lies he told.

328 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:34:51pm

Charles Johnson,

LOL! They're never going to stop making fun of Tod Akin are they?


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