Obama’s Budget Strong in Science Funding

Science • Views: 5,905

Wired Science lists some of the things in Obama’s budget that are making scientists smile.

A $2.7 billion increase in the Environmental Protection Agency’s budget. That’s a 35 percent increase that will push the agency’s budget to $10.5 billion. The EPA also got $7 billion in the stimulus package.

The National Science Foundation, which builds the big, cool tools for American science, will get an 8.5 percent bump to its budget. Combined with the $3 billion it got stimulated with, it’ll have $10 billion to play with.

NASA will only get to tack $700 million onto its $18 billion budget from last year but they picked up an extra billion dollars in stimulus cash, too.

The Department of Energy raked in $39 billion from the stimulus package. In comparison, the $2.4 billion bump it would get from Obama’s budget isn’t much. More importantly, we don’t know how much more money the DOE’s Office of Science will get to add to its $4.8 billion budget. One interesting tidbit: the Advanced Research Projects Agency - Energy, an energy research unit modeled on DARPA, finally got $400 million to start up. Former President Bush officially created ARPA-E last year, but it received no funding until the stimulus package.

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371 comments
1 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:20:04pm

Does the Vatican approve?

2 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:20:24pm

Helloooooooo...
Echoooooo....
Where is everybody?

3 astronmr20  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:21:57pm

When you are planning to spend over 3 trillion in the next couple of years, why the hell not?

4 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:22:54pm

Sure hope Obama's NASA employs better grant & contract administrators than the ones letting "nuclear scientists" in Florida, and their entire families, rip off taxpayers.

5 freedombilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:22:58pm

With a budget that big how could everything not be well funded?

6 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:23:04pm

NASA's budget wasn't cut to the bone, at that I am shocked and relieved.

7 brookly red  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:23:17pm

Well, I guess that is good. But I mistrust what he would consider science.

8 Truck Monkey  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:23:53pm

A Trillion here, a Trillion there. Soon you are talking REAL money.

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:02pm

I would be happier if the National Science folks were getting a 35 percent increase, and the EPA was getting an 8.5 percent increase.

10 HelloDare  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:13pm

How about a couple million to plumb the depths of Obama's cluelessness.

11 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:13pm

re: #6 DEZes

NASA's budget wasn't cut to the bone, at that I am shocked and relieved.

DEZes -

Are we on Mars Yet?

-S-

12 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:23pm

With all the money Obama's taking from individuals who used to contribute freely & generously to charities, no wonder!

13 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:26pm

I need a 10 million dollar grant to fund a study trying to determine if I can swim without getting wet by melting dry-ice.

14 astronmr20  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:54pm

re: #9 Emmmieg

I would be happier if the National Science folks were getting a 35 percent increase, and the EPA was getting an 8.5 percent increase.

My thoughts exactly.

15 boondocksaint  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:24:55pm

I heard that we were sending Palestine 900 million dollars...is that true?

16 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:25:14pm

How much did the Institute for Baffling People with BS get?

17 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:25:33pm

While he's funding science, he's going to collapse much of the private sector and the financial sector. Hopefully the science spending will trickle trickle.

18 Truck Monkey  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:25:44pm

re: #15 boondocksaint

I heard that we were sending Palestine 900 million dollars...is that true?

Yes. That should stimulate the Jordyptians no?

19 revGDright  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:25:48pm

What's so scientific about increasing the EPA budget? All they'll do is hire more bureaucrats to write more rules. Most "investment" by industry in cleaning up the environment will then be applied to hiring more buildings full of bean counters who's job it is to produce paperwork to prove how their company is in compliance with the new rules the new bureaucrats will write.

20 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:25:54pm

Well that certainly offsets the redistribution of wealth, cronyism, capitulation and occasional bank nationalization from the first month.

How much of this funding will be dedicated to driving up the price of electricty and basic goods courtesey of carbon offsets/crap cap & trade?

21 astronmr20  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:09pm

re: #15 boondocksaint

I heard that we were sending Palestine 900 million dollars...is that true?

No, because Palestine does not exist.

If you are asking if we are sending some militant Arabs who call themselves "Palestianins" and promise to kill Jews with it, then yes.

22 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:13pm

re: #7 brookly red

Well, I guess that is good. But I mistrust what he would consider science.

* * * *
What's not to trust about Marxist Studies? Haven't Marxist principles been proven all over the world? We have "people's paradise" 90 miles off Florida!

Revolucion y evolucion.

23 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:13pm

Just a second here.

Is the entire nation, not to mention the MSM, being hornswoggled by a unicorn?

Did we not just pass an $800,000,000,000 porkulus package?

And now, the Obamanator wants to throw a $1,500,000,000,000 deficit ON TOP OF THE PORKULUS?

HEY, WAKE UP PEOPLE!

24 Timbre  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:19pm

I should have learned to play the masses.
Should have learned to play them like drums.
Look at Obama, he’s just smiling for the camera,
The Man’s having some fun.
And he’s up there, what’s that? Hawaiian noises?
Banging on them bongos like a real crazy.
That ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it,
Giving money for nothing, get your checks for free.

--apologies to Dire Straits. Most lyrics copyright Dire Straits & Mark Knopfler.

25 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:36pm

re: #13 screaming_eagle

I need a 10 million dollar grant to fund a study trying to determine if I can swim without getting wet by melting dry-ice.

In order to get funding your experiment must also include endangered species and special interest "victims". Otherwise, don't even bother sending in the application.

26 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:47pm
A $2.7 billion increase in the Environmental Protection Agency’s budget. That’s a 35 percent increase that will push the agency’s budget to $10.5 billion. The EPA also got $7 billion in the stimulus package.

Now we'll be able to save the Sasquatch.

27 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:51pm

re: #11 Dr. Shalit

DEZes -

Are we on Mars Yet?

-S-


I doubt seeing a maned mission to Mars in my life time. :(

28 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:26:52pm

re: #16 livefreeor die

How much did the Institute for Baffling People with BS get?

The glory of holding the presidency.

29 Truck Monkey  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:27:29pm

re: #27 DEZes

I doubt seeing a maned mission to Mars in my life time. :(

Or a manned one.

//

30 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:27:30pm

re: #15 boondocksaint

I heard that we were sending Palestine 900 million dollars...is that true?

* * **
But relax, 900 million for Islamic Science is a good thing. You can trust Hillary it won't be funneled to Suha Arafat's Swiss bank shoe fund this time.

31 jordash1212  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:27:46pm

Smile cynically or happily?

32 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:27:49pm

A need an eleven billion dollar bailout to buy a new zero key.

33 kingkenrod  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:27:51pm

Bush & the GOP were also very generous with science funding, so Obama is continuing the more than adequate funding of national science interests. I've posted this link before, here it is again:

Neil deGrasse Tyson on the Bush science record.

We need to keep an eye on Obama and this money - I think the odds of Obama politicizing science are far greater than Bush.

34 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:02pm

Science!

35 boondocksaint  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:10pm

re: #21 astronmr20

OK. Perhaps I phrased my question wrong. I was just wondering if we were really sending them 900 million dollars. I wish they would send me some money for my rent and gas bill this month. I'm poor also.

36 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:11pm

I am reminded of a Dilbert cartoon where the Boss says he's figured out a way to show a profit without producing any product.

37 HelloDare  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:18pm

re: #15 boondocksaint

I heard that we were sending Palestine 900 million dollars...is that true?

Yes, it seems that firing rockets into Israel and killing Fatah members has been incentivized.

38 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:43pm

re: #15 boondocksaint

I heard that we were sending Palestine 900 million dollars...is that true?

900 million Obamabux, only good for baby milk and Chicago pizza.

39 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:48pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Science!

Seance!

40 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:48pm

re: #29 Truck Monkey

Or a manned one.

//


Thanks for fixing that. ;)

41 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:28:52pm

re: #6 DEZes

NASA's budget wasn't cut to the bone, at that I am shocked and relieved.

* * *
How'd you like your "investment" in a $250 million climate change satellite go poof upon takeoff last week?

42 Truck Monkey  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:05pm

re: #36 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I am reminded of a Dilbert cartoon where the Boss says he's figured out a way to show a profit without producing any product.

Like Enron?

43 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #35 boondocksaint

OK. Perhaps I phrased my question wrong. I was just wondering if we were really sending them 900 million dollars. I wish they would send me some money for my rent and gas bill this month. I'm poor also.

Try launching rockets at your neighbors. That might help.

44 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:17pm

re: #7 brookly red

Well, I guess that is good. But I mistrust what he would consider science.


Well , I believe that in consultation of Minister Farrakhan, The Obama Administration will scientifically prove that the White Man is indeed the Devil.

45 kgill  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:17pm

re: #21 astronmr20

Come on, it's to rebuild Gaza, isn't it? And since money isn't fungible, there's no way it will free up other money for militancy...

46 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:41pm

re: #37 HelloDare

Yes, it seems that firing rockets into Israel and killing Fatah members has been incentivized.

It's true. The rocket makers might be unionized.

47 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:49pm

re: #45 kgill

Come on, it's to rebuild Gaza, isn't it? And since money isn't fungible, there's no way it will free up other money for militancy...

Fungible isn't in the Koran.

48 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:51pm

re: #25 livefreeor die

In order to get funding your experiment must also include endangered species and special interest "victims". Otherwise, don't even bother sending in the application.


It would help the well being of FISH by not having to share their envoirment with us nasty-ass humans.

49 freedombilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:29:54pm

re: #43 livefreeor die

Try launching rockets at your neighbors. That might help.

Now that is funny!

50 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:30:05pm

re: #42 Truck Monkey

Like Enron?

With Dilbert's boss, one never knows.

51 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:30:10pm

re: #33 kingkenrod

Exactly- how much funding will be dedicated to 'climate change'?

Odd how all the internal combustion engines are eeeeevil unless they're on Air Force One or whatever learjet AlGore charters

52 SixDegrees  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:30:41pm

Nice to hear, but I'll wait and see what happens back here in reality. So far, Obama has promised to "cut the deficit in half" - after he quadruples it this year; pull "all" troops out of Iraq - except he meant combat troops only, not the remaining third to a half he's now saying will remain; begin the withdrawal of troops "immediately," a nebulous date that is slipping farther and farther into the future; touted a tax "cut" to the nation which is nothing more than a change in withholding amounts, that will leave countless taxpayers owing the government money next spring; and, in short, has made all kinds of promises that have been overtly broken, along with many others which can't possibly be kept.

I'm not saying I disagree with the outcome, at least in the case of Iraq, where cutting and running would be a disaster. But it's hard to trust someone who lies at such a prodigious rate. And the budget, after all, will ultimately be a product of Congress. Once it emerges from that snakepit, it will bear little resemblance to what is being proposed now.

53 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:30:51pm

re: #6 DEZes

NASA's budget wasn't cut to the bone, at that I am shocked and relieved.

But how much of that is going to improving our spaceflight capabilities versus "global warming" studies?

54 brookly red  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:30:54pm

re: #23 itellu3times

Just a second here.
Is the entire nation, not to mention the MSM, being hornswoggled by a unicorn?
Did we not just pass an $800,000,000,000 porkulus package?
And now, the Obamanator wants to throw a $1,500,000,000,000 deficit ON TOP OF THE PORKULUS?
HEY, WAKE UP PEOPLE!

/Don't worry, if we ever actually try to print that much money we will run out of trees long before we get there.

55 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:31:07pm

re: #48 screaming_eagle

It would help the well being of FISH by not having to share their envoirment with us nasty-ass humans.

Good point-but they have to be special interest fish.

56 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:31:55pm

re: #43 livefreeor die

Try launching rockets at your neighbors. That might help.

And if you organize your entire neighborhood to launch rockets at the adjacent neighborhood, then Obama wants to talk with you without preconditions so he can apologize for making you do it.

57 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:32:30pm

re: #33 kingkenrod

Thanks for the link and an excellent post.
The "Bush is anti-science" meme is among the more pernicious leftist tropes.

58 boondocksaint  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:32:43pm

re: #56 itellu3times

haha...you guys give really terrible advice. :)

59 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:32:55pm

re: #46 monkeytime

It's true. The rocket makers might be unionized.

At least six Gaza rockets hit southern Israel

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Now doesn't that make it more palatable sending them 900 million?

60 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:33:03pm

Obama Budget Cuts Medicare Advantage, Helps Generic Biotech

The generics industry’s trade group tells the WSJ it’s excited about a proposal to set up a regulatory pathway for companies to create generic versions of biotechnology drugs, which currently can’t be made into copycat versions. The Bush administration resisted generic biologics, but that Democrats have pushed the idea. It would have a big impact on biotech companies like Amgen and Genentech, as well as traditional drugmakers like Merck that have said they want to get into generic biotech.

The administration also wants to curb a practice by makers of traditional branded drugs by which they extend the patent-protected life of existing products by changing them slightly, the WSJ says. The New York Times adds that there’s a proposal for drug makers to give bigger discounts to Medicaid.

61 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:33:04pm

re: #41 alegrias

* * *
How'd you like your "investment" in a $250 million climate change satellite go poof upon takeoff last week?


Rockets are tricky toys, bad things happen, I would rather see science try and fail than be nixed.

62 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:34:08pm

Do we really need science anymore? Can't Obama just give us the answers?

63 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:34:11pm

Not much support for Obama's science budget here. Go figure.

64 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:34:39pm

re: #46 monkeytime

It's true. The rocket makers might be unionized.

In that case, the 900 million won't buy as many rockets.
Might be a good thing. Let's make sure there are a lot of grievances about poor working conditions and the dangers of working with explosives.
If Hamas breaks the strike like I'd expect, they'll be rid of all their rocket builders and their new ones will be much more likely to have work accidents.

65 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:34:47pm

re: #59 Nevergiveup

At least six Gaza rockets hit southern Israel

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Now doesn't that make it more palatable sending them 900 million?

I posted that same article early this morning!

66 brookly red  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:00pm

re: #61 DEZes

Rockets are tricky toys, bad things happen, I would rather see science try and fail than be nixed.

/was that a science comment, or a Palestine comment?

67 Timbre  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:04pm

re: #62 livefreeor die

Do we really need science anymore? Can't Obama just give us the answers?

My nickname for President Obama is Kelvin.....

68 HelloDare  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:05pm

re: #62 livefreeor die

Do we really need science anymore? Can't Obama just give us the answers?

The Magic Obama Eight Ball.

Barack Says Yes!

69 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:07pm

John Noble, Obama's pick to head the NSF is a big Rachel Carson fan.

70 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:22pm

re: #62 livefreeor die

Do we really need science anymore? Can't Obama just give us the answers?


And how would you like your bullshit served?

71 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:45pm

re: #61 DEZes

Rockets are tricky toys, bad things happen, I would rather see science try and fail than be nixed.

Hence some of those 'workplace accidents' in Hamasistan....

72 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:53pm

re: #61 DEZes

Rockets are tricky toys, bad things happen, I would rather see science try and fail than be nixed.

* * *
That wasn't just any old science, but Al Gore's "climate change" science.

That was $250 million that went poof for someone's pet project.

73 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:35:58pm

I thought we needed to sure up Social Security and Medicaid?

I suppose new entitlement spending and promises to further raise confiscatory business crippling taxes to pay for all the new entitlements is the way to go.

74 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:36:44pm

re: #70 screaming_eagle

And how would you like your bullshit served?

Why, with a side of pork, of course :)

75 Salem  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:36:46pm

Any scientist who is smiling about the death of capitalism can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

76 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:37:09pm

re: #62 livefreeor die

Do we really need science anymore? Can't Obama just give us the answers?

* * *
Exactly, everything's settled. Obama won. No need to discuss climate change nor anything else.

Does terrorism exist? Obama says NO, that is settled too.

77 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:37:24pm

re: #53 Colonel Panik

But how much of that is going to improving our spaceflight capabilities versus "global warming" studies?


Too much will go to global warming studies, But thats hardly a reason to mothball NASA.

78 tradewind  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:37:39pm

Happy Global warming, ya'll.... we're havin' a blizzard here in Dixie, big fat flakes coming down! First all year......

79 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:38:00pm

More money for the EPA? That agency needs funding cut to 1975 levels. Those guys are in the process of declaring CO2 a pollutant. Couple that to Obama's cap and trade and we're looking at some serious increases in the cost of living for every man, woman, and child in the US. These are stealth tax increases.

I'm for funding science research especially in the materials sciences, but not at all in favor of politicizing any scientific funding as the politicians usually have a minimal amount of science knowledge and what knowledge they do have, comes from a self serving lobbyist. We need to build new reactors and do a much better job of reprocessing spent fuel rods of the existing reactors. Construction of reactors would provide high tech jobs, construction jobs, and in the long term make us less reliant on third world oil/gas supplies.

80 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:38:03pm

Obama's economic policy assumes that the wealthy geese who lay the taxable eggs will continue to lay forever.

/Barney Frank Theory Of Economics -- all for an eternal goose.

81 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:38:27pm

re: #78 tradewind

Did we say Global Warming? Erm...we meant Climate Change...

82 HelloDare  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:39:29pm

Ask The Magic Eight Ball

83 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:39:35pm

C'mon, you bunch of Luddites. Expanding science budgets and lightening up on stem cell research are good things.

84 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:39:53pm

re: #66 brookly red

/was that a science comment, or a Palestine comment?


HEH.

85 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:39:59pm

re: #75 Salem

Any scientist who is smiling about the death of capitalism can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

* * * *
Last night on PBS' Washington Week, liberal grand dame Nina Tottenberg said "All doctors want nationalized medicine" or nationalized one payer healthcare.

Scientists prefer totalitarianism, according to this PBS hag.

86 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:40:44pm

re: #62 livefreeor die

Do we really need science anymore? Can't Obama just give us the answers?

Nice. Really nice. Mind if I use it on T-shirts?

87 pat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:41:00pm

I will applaud when I see appropriate details. I suspect a great deal of this money will be used to shackle business and destroy individual rights in America.

88 Maui Girl  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:42:05pm

One interesting tidbit: the Advanced Research Projects Agency - Energy, an energy research unit modeled on DARPA, finally got $400 million to start up. Former President Bush officially created ARPA-E last year, but it received no funding until the stimulus package.

Something for which Bush will get no credit and the slimeball Obama will say was all his doing. Pfft!

89 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:42:27pm

re: #86 Perplexed

Nice. Really nice. Mind if I use it on T-shirts?

Feel free! Just promise me you'll donate all the amazing profits to strong Republican candidates running against Snowe, Collins, and Specter.

90 debutaunt  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:42:46pm

re: #87 pat

I will applaud when I see appropriate details. I suspect a great deal of this money will be used to shackle business and destroy individual rights in America.

The wreck is coming in slow-motion and the way to deflect or stop it is hazy.

91 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:42:51pm

"0" (pronounced "zero") is growing the government.
Throwing money at "departments" doesn't always produce positive results.
For example, EDUCATION.

I do not trust one thing "0" has proposed.

92 abolitionist  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:42:57pm

re: #69 jcm

John Noble, Obama's pick to head the NSF is a big Rachel Carson fan.

That can't be good.

93 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:43:07pm

re: #85 alegrias

* * * *
Last night on PBS' Washington Week, liberal grand dame Nina Tottenberg said "All doctors want nationalized medicine" or nationalized one payer healthcare.

Scientists prefer totalitarianism, according to this PBS hag.


LMAO. My brother is a surgical RN. That will be news to him and his co-workers.

94 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:43:11pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

A $2.7 billion increase in the Environmental Protection Agency’s budget. That’s a 35 percent increase that will push the agency’s budget to $10.5 billion. The EPA also got $7 billion in the stimulus package.

Now we'll be able to save the Sasquatch.

And his close relative, ManBearPig.

95 Hengineer  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:43:39pm

re: #94 Colonel Panik

And his close relative, ManBearPig.

What about scuzzlebutt?

96 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:44:45pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

C'mon, you bunch of Luddites. Expanding science budgets and lightening up on stem cell research are good things.

* * * *
Who you calling Luddites? Don't you remember John Edwards promised the lame would walk, if democrats were elected? Democrats elected Mr. Messiah, yet they need to tap our wallet to make these miracles happen?

I'm not impressed anymore by democrat funded science projects.

Notice they're cutting off freedom of choice in schools, here in DC? Obama's totally beholden to rotten democrat teachers unions who in the District of Columbia's public schools, teach "science" so well, these kids can't read, write or do 'rythmetic?

97 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:44:50pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Not much support for Obama's science budget here. Go figure.

I'm not anti-science and I'm glad to see (and surprised actually ) that he's funding NASA. Leftists generally hate space spending. The left want all the money to go to their "free" government health care.

98 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #95 Hengineer

What about scuzzlebutt?

Must.Not.Make.Joke.About.Michelle.Obama...

99 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:44:55pm

re: #95 Hengineer

What about scuzzlebutt?

I haven't heard any scuttlebutt about scuzzlebutt. Please enlighten me.

100 HelloDare  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:45:48pm
Obama's Budget Strong in Science Funding

What does Obama have against religion?

101 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:46:11pm

ND is only down 4 to UCONN with 3:18 to go----ugh make that only 2

102 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:46:23pm

re: #88 Maui Girl

One interesting tidbit: the Advanced Research Projects Agency - Energy, an energy research unit modeled on DARPA, finally got $400 million to start up. Former President Bush officially created ARPA-E last year, but it received no funding until the stimulus package.

Something for which Bush will get no credit and the slimeball Obama will say was all his doing. Pfft!

* * * *
Al Gore created the Internet, not DARPA! Al Gore the former seminarian & present gasbag, knows something about SCIENCE!

103 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:46:27pm

re: #98 livefreeor die


OT: I was driving behind a car with the bumper sticker 'livefreeor die' recently, was that you?

104 Dirk Diggler  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:46:43pm

They should have set aside a billion or so to teach basic arithmetic to the Obama economic team.

105 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:46:53pm

re: #101 Nevergiveup

It's a good game, eh? The earlier UNC/GT game was a rout.

106 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:47:03pm

re: #103 outsidephilly

OT: I was driving behind a car with the bumper sticker 'livefreeor die' recently, was that you?

No, but I should get one! Especially now...

107 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:47:16pm

re: #96 alegrias

* * * *
Who you calling Luddites? Don't you remember John Edwards promised the lame would walk, if democrats were elected? Democrats elected Mr. Messiah, yet they need to tap our wallet to make these miracles happen?

I'm not impressed anymore by democrat funded science projects.

Notice they're cutting off freedom of choice in schools, here in DC? Obama's totally beholden to rotten democrat teachers unions who in the District of Columbia's public schools, teach "science" so well, these kids can't read, write or do 'rythmetic?


Gave ya an upding.

108 freedombilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:47:28pm

Did I really just read this right? The cover of The Messiah's new budget is labeled:

"A New Era of Responsibility: Renewing America's Promise"

That sure is a happy and fluffy way to say the death of capitalism as we know it.

Excuse me for a second...

(Barf)

109 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:47:29pm

re: #105 Lincolntf

It's a good game, eh? The earlier UNC/GT game was a rout.

Yeah GT has been to good lately

110 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:05pm

re: #106 livefreeor die

No, but I should get one! Especially now...

Too bad, thought we were neighbors......., how's the baby?

111 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #109 Nevergiveup

Yeah GT has been to good lately

Hasn't I mean

112 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:21pm

re: #56 itellu3times

And if you organize your entire neighborhood to launch rockets at the adjacent neighborhood, then Obama wants to talk with you without preconditions so he can apologize for making you do it.

Check this out:

[Link: hotair.com...]

It just keeps getting better and better.

113 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:33pm

re: #77 DEZes

Too much will go to global warming studies, But thats hardly a reason to mothball NASA.

NASA needs to get back to doing the kind of things that made legends.

114 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:35pm

re: #98 livefreeor die

Must.Not.Make.Joke.About.Michelle.Obama...

Please feel free to comment. We're not coming in the middle of the night to drag you out of bed by your heels and off to a reeducation camp - at least not yet.

115 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:43pm

re: #101 Nevergiveup

ND is only down 4 to UCONN with 3:18 to go----ugh make that only 2

ND now down three with 2:44 left & the ball.

116 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:48:59pm

re: #108 freedombilly

Did I really just read this right? The cover of The Messiah's new budget is labeled:

"A New Era of Responsibility: Renewing America's Promise"

That sure is a happy and fluffy way to say the death of capitalism as we know it.

Excuse me for a second...

(Barf)

What a joke! We're giving people who acted irresponsibly more money so they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions. I wonder what kind of promise they're "renewing".

117 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:49:05pm

re: #111 Nevergiveup

I figured.

They're a long way from the Kenny Anderson days.

118 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:49:16pm

re: #115 opnion

ND now down three with 2:44 left & the ball.

1

119 Hengineer  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:50:01pm

re: #99 Colonel Panik

I haven't heard any scuttlebutt about scuzzlebutt. Please enlighten me.

South Park: Scuzzlebutt

120 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:50:04pm

re: #96 alegrias

I find it interesting that conservatives have the same reaction to science as progressives have to military action. I expect most people here to oppose whatever Obama does but the reaction to science is pretty unique.

121 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:50:07pm

re: #114 Perplexed

Please feel free to comment. We're not coming in the middle of the night to drag you out of bed by your heels and off to a reeducation camp - at least not yet.

Why do I worry that the reeducation camp uniform is a yellow dress with an upholstered jacket?

122 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:50:19pm

Waltzed in for that layup.

123 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:50:28pm

re: #114 Perplexed

Please feel free to comment. We're not coming in the middle of the night to drag you out of bed by your heels and off to a reeducation camp - at least not yet.

Please Obama only been president for a month. Give him some time.

124 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:50:34pm

Obama gets to pick life's winners and losers.

125 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:04pm

re: #121 livefreeor die

Why do I worry that the reeducation camp uniform is a yellow dress with an upholstered jacket?


I don't look good in yellow -- I don't want a yellow uniform!

126 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:04pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

I find it interesting that conservatives have the same reaction to science as progressives have to military action. I expect most people here to oppose whatever Obama does but the reaction to science is pretty unique.

Ha? I'm in favor of science. What do you mean?

127 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:05pm

re: #107 opnion

Gave ya an upding.

* * *
Thanks, I've lived in and around democrat run-into-the-ground DC long enough to have a Ph.D. in how little they care about "public school" dependent poor people's freedom to learn to read, write 'n' do arithmetic!

You'll be happy to learn all DC public schools are drug-free, nuclear free, gun-free, and generally, true-education free ZONES.

128 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:14pm

re: #110 outsidephilly

Too bad, thought we were neighbors......., how's the baby?

He's great! He's mastered smiling and just started laughing. I guess he can't understand news reports yet...

129 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:26pm

re: #112 capitalist piglet

Check this out:

[Link: hotair.com...]

It just keeps getting better and better.

Prairie Fire ... 25 million ... timely action ...

/why th f*** is he named "Freeman"?

130 HelloDare  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:32pm

re: #102 alegrias

* * * *
Al Gore created the Internet, not DARPA! Al Gore the former seminarian & present gasbag, knows something about SCIENCE!

Here is what he actually said.

BLITZER: I want to get to some of the substance of domestic and international issues in a minute, but let's just wrap up a little bit of the politics right now.

Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination process, support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of yours, a former colleague in the Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn't necessarily bring to this process?

GORE: Well, I will be offering -- I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

During a quarter century of public service, including most of it long before I came into my current job, I have worked to try to improve the quality of life in our country and in our world. And what I've seen during that experience is an emerging future that's very exciting, about which I'm very optimistic, and toward which I want to lead.

131 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #118 Nevergiveup

1

Back to three.

132 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:51:56pm

re: #128 livefreeor die

He's great! He's mastered smiling and just started laughing. I guess he can't understand news reports yet...


Ah, but he's got a funny mom.......

133 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:52:15pm

re: #128 livefreeor die

He's great! He's mastered smiling and just started laughing. I guess he can't understand news reports yet...

No he can. It's when you see something in the news and want to crap your pants you don't. He does.

134 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:52:19pm

re: #113 Colonel Panik

NASA needs to get back to doing the kind of things that made legends.

Oh I couldn't agree more, the shuttles need a replacement, and Hubble wont last forever, I"m just amazed Obama didn't gut NASA like a trout.

135 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:52:37pm

re: #96 alegrias

I'm not impressed anymore by democrat funded science projects.

Notice they're cutting off freedom of choice in schools, here in DC? Obama's totally beholden to rotten democrat teachers unions who in the District of Columbia's public schools, teach "science" so well, these kids can't read, write or do 'rythmetic?

I'm sure the D.C. public schools are good enough for the 0bamas to send their children to....

Wait....say what now?

136 Hengineer  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:52:38pm

This book I read called Nerds 2.0, talking about the orginial Darpa-net and the first "web" of interconnected computers DOES mention a Senator. And no, it isn't Al Gore.

137 brookly red  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:02pm

re: #84 DEZes

"rockets are tricky toys..." it confused me.

138 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:03pm

Wait a second. I teach kids science here at my house. Shouldn't I be in line for some of this?

No?

If I got an official government title, could I get some funds?

/Just kidding

Note 1: My favorite HS question is: So, do you get a stipend or something? (I've learned not to laugh, just smile.)

Note 2: We successfully had a dry run on the dissections by cutting up a lily. Nobody cut his or herself. Woo hoo!

139 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:06pm

re: #132 outsidephilly

Ah, but he's got a funny mom.......

Especially when she's sleepy!

140 freedombilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:13pm

re: #116 livefreeor die

What a joke! We're giving people who acted irresponsibly more money so they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions. I wonder what kind of promise they're "renewing".

Renewing the promise of handouts.

141 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:16pm

re: #134 DEZes

Oh I couldn't agree more, the shuttles need a replacement, and Hubble wont last forever, I"m just amazed Obama didn't gut NASA like a trout.

All that missile stuff is "unproven" technology! Get with the program!

////////

142 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:23pm

re: #119 Hengineer

South Park: Scuzzlebutt

LOL. Hadn't seen that episode.

143 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:25pm

re: #121 livefreeor die

Why do I worry that the reeducation camp uniform is a yellow dress with an upholstered jacket?

Well, to go along with the bad food, poor housing, non-existent medical care, they also provide you with mis-matched clothing that displays an incredible affront to any fashion sense whatsoever.

144 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:44pm

re: #127 alegrias

* * *
Thanks, I've lived in and around democrat run-into-the-ground DC long enough to have a Ph.D. in how little they care about "public school" dependent poor people's freedom to learn to read, write 'n' do arithmetic!

You'll be happy to learn all DC public schools are drug-free, nuclear free, gun-free, and generally, true-education free ZONES.


Sounds like Chicago.

145 Macker  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:53:53pm

re: #99 Colonel Panik

I haven't heard any scuttlebutt about scuzzlebutt. Please enlighten me.

It is said that the only thing in the Universe which travels faster than FTL (choose your method: warp, hyperspace, fold) is scuttlebutt.

146 Salem  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:54:13pm

re: #85 alegrias

* * * *
Last night on PBS' Washington Week, liberal grand dame Nina Tottenberg said "All doctors want nationalized medicine" or nationalized one payer healthcare.

Scientists prefer totalitarianism, according to this PBS hag.

Outcome-based science, in other words. Also known as not-science.

147 livefreeor die  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:54:20pm

re: #143 Perplexed

Well, to go along with the bad food, poor housing, non-existent medical care, they also provide you with mis-matched clothing that displays an incredible affront to any fashion sense whatsoever.

Must.Not.Make.Another.Michelle.Obama.Joke...

148 debutaunt  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:54:21pm

re: #103 outsidephilly

OT: I was driving behind a car with the bumper sticker 'livefreeor die' recently, was that you?

I love deadpan humor and that was delivered perfectly.

149 freedombilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:54:23pm

re: #135 Fenway_Nation

The end of that game sucked, huh?

150 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:54:36pm

re: #136 Hengineer

This book I read called Nerds 2.0, talking about the orginial Darpa-net and the first "web" of interconnected computers DOES mention a Senator. And no, it isn't Al Gore.

I looked up the dates once. Al Gore was 8 days into Army basic training when Darpanet took delivery of it's first servers.

151 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:55:09pm

re: #134 DEZes

Oh I couldn't agree more, the shuttles need a replacement, and Hubble wont last forever, I"m just amazed Obama didn't gut NASA like a trout.

Yes. I always thought the shuttle was a poor compromise. We should have developed a true spaceplane for crew to orbit missions and kept evolving the Saturn series rockets for heavy cargo lift.

152 Boxy_brown  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:55:12pm
Obama's Budget Strong in Science Funding

You dump enough money on everything sooner or later some of it might actually be of some benefit.

Still, I'd bet the science community is envious of ACORN.

153 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:55:14pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

I find it interesting that conservatives have the same reaction to science as progressives have to military action. I expect most people here to oppose whatever Obama does but the reaction to science is pretty unique.

* * *
sorry but you're making a rhetorical fallacy & building a strawman argument.

Speaking for myself, I'm not against "science".

I am against CORRUPTUS PORKULUS SCIENTIFICUS OBAMICUS PELOSICUS KALIFORNIENSIS REIDUS ILLINOISIS with a little Karl Marxist factors of production & facotors of labor thrown in for good measure.

154 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:55:14pm

re: #138 EmmmieG

You've got to get some T-shirts made (see livefreeor die @ #62)

155 Hengineer  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:55:38pm

re: #142 Colonel Panik

LOL. Hadn't seen that episode.

Season One: They parody "Duck and Cover"

156 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:56:04pm

re: #121 livefreeor die

Why do I worry that the reeducation camp uniform is a yellow dress with an upholstered jacket?

* * *
But your chic Maoist cap will be made in USA by Michelle's favorite Cuban designer.

157 Hengineer  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:56:08pm

re: #150 jcm

I looked up the dates once. Al Gore was 8 days into Army basic training when Darpanet took delivery of it's first servers.

I still have the book, I should look up the Senator

158 Macker  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:56:21pm

re: #155 Hengineer

Season One: They parody "Duck and Cover"

Now THAT was truly funny!

159 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:56:52pm

re: #129 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Prairie Fire ... 25 million ... timely action ...

/why th f*** is he named "Freeman"?

This quote of his is, ummmm...interesting:

"[T]he truly unforgivable mistake of the Chinese authorities was the failure to intervene on a timely basis to nip the demonstrations in the bud, rather than -- as would have been both wise and efficacious -- to intervene with force when all other measures had failed to restore domestic tranquility to Beijing and other major urban centers in China. In this optic, the Politburo's response to the mob scene at 'Tian'anmen' stands as a monument to overly cautious behavior on the part of the leadership, not as an example of rash action. . . .

160 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #155 Hengineer

Season One: They parody "Duck and Cover"

You mean old Bert the Turtle of Civil Defense fame?

161 Maui Girl  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:57:01pm

re: #85 alegrias

* * * *
Last night on PBS' Washington Week, liberal grand dame Nina Tottenberg said "All doctors want nationalized medicine" or nationalized one payer healthcare.

A simple poll of doctors would dispel this ridiculous notion!

162 Hengineer  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:57:02pm

re: #158 Macker

Now THAT was truly funny!

Yes, apparently if you see a volcano spout, duck and cover, the lava will flow right over you and you'll be ok.

163 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:58:40pm

I have a close family member who works specifically in the biotech field. The company he works for does just fine without government grants. Much of the private sector can work if you just get government out of the way.

164 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:58:51pm

What percentage of scientific discovery came out of:
Privately owned laboratories?
Government owned laboratories?

Time to do a surf check................at least "0" doesn't TAX ocean sports ....yet.

165 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:04pm

re: #161 Maui Girl

That's how they do it. They just decide on the narrative, and it's "Make it happen."

166 Salem  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:09pm

If only science could protect us from Obama.

167 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:29pm

re: #164 IslandLibertarian

What percentage of scientific discovery came out of:
Privately owned laboratories?
Government owned laboratories?

Time to do a surf check................at least "0" doesn't TAX ocean sports ....yet.

5% tax on surfer shark attacks . . .

168 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:37pm

re: #153 alegrias

I'm not talking about specific individuals but there is a collective fear/distrust/loathing of science in general among conservatives. It's a pretty deeply ingrained reflex. It's not about the complaints of bias either, the creationists are busy trying to push their own bias. The anti-global warming crowd is doing the same thing (as is the global warming crowd). I'm not sure why, just a general observation.

169 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:41pm

re: #135 Fenway_Nation

I'm sure the D.C. public schools are good enough for the 0bamas to send their children to....

Wait....say what now?

* * *
Yes, for their children's science education, the Obamas prefer QUAKER science teachers. The Clintons agreed Quaker science beat public school teachers union science any day, for their only child.

Democrat union teachers don't to science justice, apparently. Take the Obama's words for it!

170 Macker  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:43pm

re: #162 Hengineer

Yes, apparently if you see a volcano spout, duck and cover, the lava will flow right over you and you'll be ok.

Just ask the copulating couple of Pompeii!

171 swamprat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:45pm
Still waiting for the government-sponsored, mass-produced, modular solar water heaters. Cheap, light weight, snap together.

Waiting for the electric car that uses AC technology for greater efficiency....

Automobile air conditioning that runs off the engine' excess heat...

Universal Internet access and telephone broadcast to every home via satellite.

Energy drawn off internal combustion engines by using the exhaust heat to drive a steam turbine ...two engines for the fuel of one with reduced thermal footprint.

Piezo-electric elements placed into tires as an additional source of power.

Vegetables that retain nutrition after cooking due to genetic engineering.

Or we could, you know, give the money to further entrench existing bureaucracies....that'd be just as good.

172 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:53pm

re: #166 Salem

If only science could protect us from Obama.

Maybe it can blind him with science?

173 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:57pm

re: #85 alegrias

* * * *
Last night on PBS' Washington Week, liberal grand dame Nina Tottenberg said "All doctors want nationalized medicine" or nationalized one payer healthcare.

Scientists prefer totalitarianism, according to this PBS hag.

Well wait a minute. First, equating practicing physicians with scientists might just make both sides laugh. Second, I doubt if Ms. Nina has any f'ing idea what she's talking about. No doctors are going to get rich under nationalized medicine, and that will turn off at least half of them bigtime.

174 debutaunt  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 12:59:57pm

re: #166 Salem

If only science could protect us from Obama.

Science did come up with the NObama bumper sticker.

175 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:00:02pm

re: #151 Colonel Panik The X-33 was wrought with problems as a Shuttle replacement and was abandoned, for now I think we will see them replaced with the Aries rockets to do the heavy lifting.

176 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:00:33pm

re: #167 Wyatt Earp

5% tax on surfer shark attacks . . .


Make that 7% tax on Jersey surfer shark attacks
/

177 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:00:37pm

re: #175 DEZes

The X-33 was wrought with problems as a Shuttle replacement and was abandoned, for now I think we will see them replaced with the Aries rockets to do the heavy lifting.

Or a big, giant slingshot.

178 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:01:12pm

OT:WHAT DID I SEE AT CPAC?

The hatred of professionalism. Tucker Carlson mildly suggests that conservatives need more than their feelings. That, whatever you think of the bias of the New York Times, they at least care that they spell your name correctly, and they actually do something: gather news.

He was booed and challenged by the audience of course.

Joe the Plumber was the star of the day. I haven't confirmed this, but I was told he recently briefed a group of Republicans on his trip to Gaza. I don't care what your foreign policy is: Joe the Plumber shouldn't be informing it.

All day, the message I got was this: The movement enjoys being hated by its enemies, more than it cares about its own goals. It is populist, and irresponsible. A little popularizing is good, a little political theatre is good.

CPAC is just unpleasant. And it is not just the elites flattening the ambitions of the people, it is the people dumbing down their own elites. Well-adjusted people, even if they feel alienated from certain parts of American society don't wish to be hated by society. People who want to advance some goals, want more responsibility, not less. I hate that CPAC seems to give credibility to Adorno: that conservatives have defective personalities.

/Hot Air Headlines.

179 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:01:33pm

re: #149 freedombilly

Very anti-climatic....but at least we got the one point.

180 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:01:34pm

re: #112 capitalist piglet

Check this out:

[Link: hotair.com...]

It just keeps getting better and better.

He faults the Chinese for using too much restraint at Tienanmen Square. Unreal.

181 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:01:41pm

re: #176 outsidephilly

Make that 7% tax on Jersey surfer shark attacks
/

No chance that will happen. The average Jersey guy will look down and yell, "Ay, I'm surfin' here!"

182 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:01:56pm

One of my biggest priorities, science wise, if I was President, would be to increase funding for Robert Bussard's "Polywell" experimental fusion reactor project.

183 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:02:04pm

re: #150 jcm

I looked up the dates once. Al Gore was 8 days into Army basic training when Darpanet took delivery of it's first servers.

* * * *
Al Gore was smoking dope when DARPAnet was hatched by someone else.

184 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:02:07pm

re: #163 FrogMarch

I have a close family member who works specifically in the biotech field. The company he works for does just fine without government grants. Much of the private sector can work if you just get government out of the way.

I have a close family member who is a government scientist. I'd have to discuss it more at length with him to say more, but it is my impression that at least occasionally, part of his work involves fixing problems government caused.

185 Salem  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:02:32pm

The Democrats poison everything they touch. I don't expect science to be an exception.

186 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:02:40pm

re: #180 monkeytime

He faults the Chinese for using too much restraint at Tienanmen Square. Unreal.

And he doesn't like Israel.

187 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:02:46pm

re: #177 Wyatt Earp

Or a big, giant slingshot.

Or make a giant cannon (Jules Verne and Gerald Bull) to shoot equipment/supplies into space.

188 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:03:30pm

ND loses by seven. Much closer than the score indicates.
They actually might have helped themselve's with the NCAA Selection Committee, going onto U Conn's home court & palying the nations #2 team tough.

189 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:03:46pm

re: #159 capitalist piglet

This quote of his is, ummmm...interesting:

Interesting indeed.

The Russians sent two waves of troops into Budapest. The first was merely sent in, and largely went over to the Hungarian side, once the soldiers learned what the rebellion was all about. The second wave, several days later, was methodically "prepared". No doubt, Freeman would characterize the first as a screw-up.

/the second wave was met by teenage boys with Molotov cocktails

190 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:03:55pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

I'm not talking about specific individuals but there is a collective fear/distrust/loathing of science in general among conservatives. It's a pretty deeply ingrained reflex. It's not about the complaints of bias either, the creationists are busy trying to push their own bias. The anti-global warming crowd is doing the same thing (as is the global warming crowd). I'm not sure why, just a general observation.


Depends on what you define as "science". I find a pretty deeply ingrained fear of any sort of research that might lead to more efficient defense technology among liberals. Particularly anything relating to missile defense.

191 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:04:02pm

Honorably Discharged Soldier Called Back for Duty Plans to Bring Kids

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Do they make assault weapons that small?
/

192 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:04:34pm

re: #191 Nevergiveup

Honorably Discharged Soldier Called Back for Duty Plans to Bring Kids

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Do they make assault weapons that small?
/


They'll kill ya five times before you hit the ground!

193 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:04:40pm

re: #177 Wyatt Earp

Or a big, giant slingshot.

This is latex 1, we are good to go Houston. ;)

194 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:04:48pm

re: #188 opnion

ND loses by seven. Much closer than the score indicates.
They actually might have helped themselve's with the NCAA Selection Committee, going onto U Conn's home court & palying the nations #2 team tough.

Dream on

195 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:05:22pm

re: #190 Colonel Panik

Genetically modified food is pretty universally feared by the left and the right.

196 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:05:39pm

re: #193 DEZes

This is latex 1, we are good to go Houston. ;)

And they'll be "protected" from alien STD's.

197 Fenway_Nation  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:06:02pm

re: #186 capitalist piglet

And he doesn't like Israel.

Something tells me it isn't because they were showing restraint.

198 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:06:12pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

OT:WHAT DID I SEE AT CPAC?

/Hot Air Headlines.

the movement is restless and ready to purge the old tired stand-bys - like Ann Coulter and Tom Delay and... and....
That's not all bad.

199 outsidephilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:07:00pm

((((Wyatt))))
you, and all philly cops are in my prayers!

200 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:07:28pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

I'm not talking about specific individuals but there is a collective fear/distrust/loathing of science in general among conservatives. It's a pretty deeply ingrained reflex. It's not about the complaints of bias either, the creationists are busy trying to push their own bias. The anti-global warming crowd is doing the same thing (as is the global warming crowd). I'm not sure why, just a general observation.

Killgore, "among conservatives" is painting with too broad a brush. I understand where you're coming from, but you're leaving your argument open to attack. "Conservative" does not automatically equate with "Creationist".

201 DEZes  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:07:41pm

re: #196 Wyatt Earp

And they'll be "protected" from alien STD's.

Fanged and four headed STD"s.
/

202 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:08:06pm

It appears LSU is playing alot of "Look out" defense?

203 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:08:09pm

re: #182 Colonel Panik

One of my biggest priorities, science wise, if I was President, would be to increase funding for Robert Bussard's "Polywell" experimental fusion reactor project.

OK, is this for real? I mean, has this truly produced measurable neutrons at all? Anyway, I don't get it, if it does produce neutrons and/or heat, I don't see how to get it out, or how it won't destroy the device itself within minutes. Hey, if it produces enough energy, I suppose that might be OK, but if this really worked, wouldn't big US companies be funding it up the wazoo?

204 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:08:09pm

re: #187 Perplexed

Or make a giant cannon (Jules Verne and Gerald Bull) to shoot equipment/supplies into space.

Saddam had one he was aiming at Tel Aviv. You get to bomb it with a tactical nuke as one of the missions in an F-18 Hornet Gulf War I sim I used to play.

205 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:08:11pm

re: #180 monkeytime

I wonder what the professional protesters over at Code Pink, DailyKos, HuffPo, etc. think about this Lefty with jackboots in his closet?

206 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:08:20pm

re: #194 Nevergiveup

Dream on

If they win their next two Coference games, ya never know.
They had the big win over Louisville & their seven game losing streak was with the exception of one game to ranked teams.
But yeah, I wouldn't bet on it.

207 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:09:09pm

re: #184 capitalist piglet

I have a close family member who is a government scientist. I'd have to discuss it more at length with him to say more, but it is my impression that at least occasionally, part of his work involves fixing problems government caused.

Interesting; and not at all surprising. Government meddling leads to disaster (and more need for "bailouts") most of the time.

208 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:09:10pm

re: #187 Perplexed

Or make a giant cannon (Jules Verne and Gerald Bull) to shoot equipment/supplies into space.

It's called a mass driver, and it's an excellent idea.

209 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:09:11pm

For those who want to understand the markets, the economy, the bailout, personal finance listen to Bob Brinker: listen live

210 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:10:03pm

re: #206 opnion

If they win their next two Coference games, ya never know.
They had the big win over Louisville & their seven game losing streak was with the exception of one game to ranked teams.
But yeah, I wouldn't bet on it.

I love March madness and college basketball. You don't have to argue about who is best. just get in and win it.

211 FrogMarch  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:10:09pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

I'm not talking about specific individuals but there is a collective fear/distrust/loathing of science in general among conservatives. It's a pretty deeply ingrained reflex. It's not about the complaints of bias either, the creationists are busy trying to push their own bias. The anti-global warming crowd is doing the same thing (as is the global warming crowd). I'm not sure why, just a general observation.

OK. I don't fear science. I fear government.

212 Higgs Boson  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:10:12pm

$9.7 Billion to the E.P.A. is NOT for science. It's for propaganda!

E.P.A. doesn't DO science; think James Hanson.

213 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:10:38pm

re: #203 itellu3times

The Navy seems to think it shows promise.

214 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:10:40pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

OT:WHAT DID I SEE AT CPAC?

/Hot Air Headlines.

One of the comments:

sinz54
8:21 AM
I wasn't at CPAC, so I can't comment on what went on there. But I have been browsing the right-wing blogs. And what I've noticed is a tendency to scapegoat just about everybody else for the GOP's losses: McCain was a "RINO" and a weak candidate. The media was against the Republicans. Some of the more daring conservatives dare to point out that "Our Commander-in-Chief," Bush, may have made a few mistakes here and there. And when all else, blame the American people: They're ignorant and "pussified"--soft, and unwilling to tolerate being unemployed and impoverished--if that's what it takes to preserve a free economy. What almost never comes up as an issue on these right-wing blogs is: What did we conservatives do wrong, and what can we learn from that to do better next time? Blaming others and wallowing in self-pity are convenient rationalizations for avoiding introspection and determination to change for the better. And that's rampant within the GOP right now.
215 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:10:58pm

re: #209 Killgore Trout

It's also worthwhile to listen if you want to avoid hysteria and develop a real world understanding of what's going on.

216 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:11:29pm

re: #200 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Killgore, "among conservatives" is painting with too broad a brush. I understand where you're coming from, but you're leaving your argument open to attack. "Conservative" does not automatically equate with "Creationist".

Agreed. This blog seems to me to be filled with pro-science people who lean toward the conservative side of politics.

217 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:11:29pm

re: #205 Lincolntf

I wonder what the professional protesters over at Code Pink, DailyKos, HuffPo, etc. think about this Lefty with jackboots in his closet?

They will never see it. I was working with a lefty during the election. We were debating the candidates and when I brought up Bill Ayers he said "Who?" as did my dumbass Bush brought down the twin towers partner. When I told them who Bill Ayers was they said "That's not true. We would have heard of him". Head in sand, just like that.

218 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:11:39pm

re: #191 Nevergiveup

Honorably Discharged Soldier Called Back for Duty Plans to Bring Kids

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Do they make assault weapons that small?
/

Yes, I have one here at the house, it's called a Nerf Vulcan. (We have a longshot, too. About about 30 other guns. I have four boys.)

219 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:11:46pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

It's also worthwhile to listen if you want to avoid hysteria and develop a real world understanding of what's going on.

heck, no, right now I just want to be hysterical for awhile.

220 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:11:52pm

re: #214 reine.de.tout

That's a good one.

221 SixDegrees  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:11:52pm

re: #41 alegrias

* * *
How'd you like your "investment" in a $250 million climate change satellite go poof upon takeoff last week?

This sort of problem isn't unique to NASA. In fact, NASA has the best launch record of any nation. But getting an extremely complex piece of machinery into a precise orbit using another extremely precise piece of machinery, each containing hundreds of thousands of exquisitely crafted parts, and having everything work, is not a simple task. Failure at launch is still fairly common, and the chances of everything going well enough to call the mission a success - placement in the correct orbit and passage of all initialization checks - is somewhere around 75% - 80%.

The ESA numbers are more like 60% - 70%. And no one else even comes close to that.

There will always be failures when you're working at the bleeding edge of what's possible.

222 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:12:18pm

re: #204 Colonel Panik

Saddam had one he was aiming at Tel Aviv. You get to bomb it with a tactical nuke as one of the missions in an F-18 Hornet Gulf War I sim I used to play.

Bull didn't listen to the warnings and was killed for his involvement in that cannon. I read some write ups on that cannon and it was to use copper jacketed shells and the gun powder had a grain size of a lump of coal to provide an even slow burning, slow accelerating push down a very long barrel. It might have just worked had he been able to finish it.

223 brookly red  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:13:11pm

re: #211 FrogMarch

OK. I don't fear science. I fear government.

I never used to fear government...

224 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:13:33pm

re: #219 reine.de.tout

He's explaining Obama's tax plan now.

225 opnion  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:13:33pm

re: #217 monkeytime

They will never see it. I was working with a lefty during the election. We were debating the candidates and when I brought up Bill Ayers he said "Who?" as did my dumbass Bush brought down the twin towers partner. When I told them who Bill Ayers was they said "That's not true. We would have heard of him". Head in sand, just like that.


I had a guy say to me that ,'Ayers must be respectable or a University would never employ him."

226 Lynn B.  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:14:17pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

C'mon, you bunch of Luddites. Expanding science budgets and lightening up on stem cell research are good things.

They certainly are! And I'm hoping that in the not too distant future we'll once again have the money to support them.

But right now, we don't. So where's it going to come from?

227 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:15:19pm

re: #196 Wyatt Earp

And they'll be "protected" from alien STD's.

Ever been abducted, Mandrake?

Gray alien infiltration, Gray alien subversion, Gray aliens polluting our precious bodily fluids! I will not allow the integrity of the American rectum to be compromised by Zeta Reticulan probes!

228 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:15:33pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

I'm not talking about specific individuals but there is a collective fear/distrust/loathing of science in general among conservatives. It's a pretty deeply ingrained reflex. It's not about the complaints of bias either, the creationists are busy trying to push their own bias. The anti-global warming crowd is doing the same thing (as is the global warming crowd). I'm not sure why, just a general observation.

* * *
Generalize about conservatives all you want. I know a little something about science "administration" and know a little about politization of science grant/funding.

Please don't misunderstimate my direct observation there IS political bias in science funding.

229 freedombilly  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:16:13pm

re: #179 Fenway_Nation

Thank you Chara.

230 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:16:20pm

re: #187 Perplexed

Or make a giant cannon (Jules Verne and Gerald Bull) to shoot equipment/supplies into space.

Don't laugh.

Earth to Orbit Railgun.

231 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:16:56pm

re: #222 Perplexed

Bull didn't listen to the warnings and was killed for his involvement in that cannon. I read some write ups on that cannon and it was to use copper jacketed shells and the gun powder had a grain size of a lump of coal to provide an even slow burning, slow accelerating push down a very long barrel. It might have just worked had he been able to finish it.

Yup, I think the Mossad whacked him. Rightly so.

232 Salem  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:18:46pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

Genetically modified food is pretty universally feared by the left and the right.

I haven't heard anyone on the right complaining about it, actually. Probably more due to religious faith than faith in science, though.

233 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:19:17pm

re: #230 jcm

Don't laugh.

Earth to Orbit Railgun.

We're going to ORBIT a railgun?!?!
heh ... :D

234 Cato the Elder  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:19:28pm

Meanwhile, magazines like The Nation are boiling mad about his military budget increases. So much for the notion that he would "gut" the military and leave us all crouching in trenches, trembling at the imminent onslaught of jihadis, Chicoms and Russkies.

235 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:19:32pm

Slumdog child star slapped for refusing interview: report

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

What, is Hollywood using disposable kids now for movies?

236 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:20:03pm

re: #173 itellu3times

Well wait a minute. First, equating practicing physicians with scientists might just make both sides laugh. Second, I doubt if Ms. Nina has any f'ing idea what she's talking about. No doctors are going to get rich under nationalized medicine, and that will turn off at least half of them bigtime.

* * **
Nina Tottenberg invoked her dead former husband as an authority that all doctors want singlepayer (government) insurance.

She also quoted a scientific observation by an impartial friend of hers watching Obama's non-State of the Union Message: "At last we have a real President."

(Because you know, well, ummm, President Bush was not scientifically elected enough for some of our electorate, so did not meet scientific criteria to have been president for 8 years, therefore was just a pretender to our presidency.)

Pull the plug on PBS please.

237 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:20:12pm

re: #231 Colonel Panik

Yup, I think the Mossad whacked him. Rightly so.

He was warned

238 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:20:23pm

re: #214 reine.de.tout

I guess the lefties can lecture us about whining and self pity since they perfected it and then mutated it into a Frankenstein version of it's former self for the last 8 years. Must give credit where credit is due, when it comes to whining and self pity, we are amatures.

239 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:20:25pm

re: #232 Salem

I haven't heard anyone on the right complaining about it, actually. Probably more due to religious faith than faith in science, though.

Were do people think most food came from? Selective breeding for certain traits.
Which is just the slow manual method of genetic engineering.

240 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:21:24pm

re: #233 pre-Boomer Marine brat

We're going to ORBIT a railgun?!?!
heh ... :D

CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford is slated to have railgun catapults.

241 ToddHerman  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:21:42pm

Yes and here is his Science Adviser:

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

242 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:22:21pm

re: #233 pre-Boomer Marine brat

We're going to ORBIT a railgun?!?!
heh ... :D

Just thing orbit velocity plus railgun.... uber orbit to earth kinetic energy weapons.

243 snowcrash  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:22:22pm

There is a superconducting supercollider (Fermi Labs) in Illinois that is doing remarkable stuff with neutrinos. I would like to see budget/stimulus money going to funding a big project that is already running. It is in Illinois so maybe they have a chance. I worry that all the post war scientific technologies (physics, molec biology etc) will not be invested in, rather green tech and Global disease issues will take all the funding.

244 SixDegrees  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:22:28pm

re: #90 debutaunt

The wreck is coming in slow-motion and the way to deflect or stop it is hazy.

Work from within. Big O torqued off Congressional leadership big time with his announcement that his removal of "all troops" in Iraq really meant "all combat troops," and that somewhere between a third and a half will be left in place - similar to what Bush was proposing by the same point in time. Reid, Pelosi and Schumer are fuming. And Congressman Gene Taylor, a Mississippi Democrat, blasted Obama's budget as being fiscally irresponsible ([Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...] We need to exploit these fissures and widen them - from the GOP side, the strategy would be to point out that O's been lying all along, and can't keep his word. We should also be encouraging Democrats who are espousing Conservative economic positions.

One thing the O doesn't seem to deal with well at all is criticism. A showdown with "his" Congress may very well drive him to public meltdown. And at the very least, we can still play the "bi-partisan" card in tandem with the "broken promises" them to at least blunt, if not completely stop, this budget's excesses.

245 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:22:51pm

re: #239 jcm

Were do people think most food came from? Selective breeding for certain traits.
Which is just the slow manual method of genetic engineering.

The only people that I have heard bitch about it are unshaven total organic lefties.

246 KitchenQueen  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:23:29pm

re: #16 livefreeor die

How much did the Institute for Baffling People with BS get?

Three billion. Page 3,893, right under the 28% increase for the Ministry of Silly Walks.

247 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:23:35pm

re: #173 itellu3times

Well wait a minute. First, equating practicing physicians with scientists might just make both sides laugh. Second, I doubt if Ms. Nina has any f'ing idea what she's talking about. No doctors are going to get rich under nationalized medicine, and that will turn off at least half of them bigtime.

* * *
I have a tingly leg feeling, under Obama's nationalized medicine and with Hollywood's encouragement, plastic surgery will become a science we will ALL FUND, not an art.

Like Octomom's In Vitro Fertility treatments, which most states do not pay for--under Obama, you'll have a right not only to assisted reproduction, but to designer children. SciencE!

248 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:24:16pm

re: #240 jcm

CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford is slated to have railgun catapults.

*chuckle*
Yeah, I know. I was twisting your tail. You left the hyphens out of "Earth-to-orbit", panicking the Klingons, who now think we're about to orbit a railgun.

249 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:24:33pm

re: #234 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, magazines like The Nation are boiling mad about his military budget increases. So much for the notion that he would "gut" the military and leave us all crouching in trenches, trembling at the imminent onslaught of jihadis, Chicoms and Russkies.

Time will tell.

250 FreeRadical  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:25:12pm

O great. More people not particularly producing all that much and yet completely dependent on theft in order to get paid. Fuck Obama.

251 SixDegrees  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:25:37pm

re: #226 Lynn B.

They certainly are! And I'm hoping that in the not too distant future we'll once again have the money to support them.

But right now, we don't. So where's it going to come from?

Good point. But I'll point out that it's also in the national interest to keep the best and the brightest we have working. In this country. They're highly paid for a reason, and they're smart enough to learn Chinese in a hurry if they have to.

I'd much rather see us deficit spending to keep our engineers and scientists working than throwing it away on nebulous "infrastructure" jobs that will vanish the moment the Magical Money Pump gets turned off.

252 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:25:46pm

re: #241 ToddHerman

Yes and here is his Science Adviser:

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

Holdren gave a clear indication of his philosophical views in the 1977 book Ecoscience, which he co-authored with Paul and Anne Ehrlich. [1] In its pages, the authors noted, "The neo-Malthusiasn view proposes...population limitation and redistribution of wealth." They concluded, "On these points, we find ourselves firmly in the neo-Malthusian camp" (p. 954).

Economist Thomas Malthus is one of the most literally anti-human theorists in human history. He viewed overpopulation as the fount of all woe, but one which could be staunched with enough blood. In "An Essay on the Principle of Population" Malthus wrote, "All the children who are born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the death of grown persons...if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use...and court the return of the plague." Like their intellectual forebear, Holdren and the Ehrlichs proposed their own acceptable sacrifice to the environment.

The trio prescribed a rigidly enforced, government-imposed limit of two children per family. Holdren and the Ehrlichs maintained "there exists ample authority under which population growth could be regulated." Hiding behind the passive voice, they note, "it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society." (Emphasis added.) To underscore they mean business, they conclude, "If some individuals contribute to general social deterioration by overproducing children, and if the need is compelling, they can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" (pp. 837-838). Moreover, if the United States government refuses to take proper measures, they authorize the United Nations to take compelling force.

SNIP

253 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:25:58pm

re: #248 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*chuckle*
Yeah, I know. I was twisting your tail. You left the hyphens out of "Earth-to-orbit", panicking the Klingons, who now think we're about to orbit a railgun.

I can always count on a tail twist from you!
;-)

254 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:26:18pm

re: #212 Higgs Boson

$9.7 Billion to the E.P.A. is NOT for science. It's for propaganda!

E.P.A. doesn't DO science; think James Hanson.

* * *
EPA brings lawsuits! They have more lawyers than scientists, I'll wager.

255 Macker  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:26:45pm

re: #204 Colonel Panik

Saddam had one he was aiming at Tel Aviv. You get to bomb it with a tactical nuke as one of the missions in an F-18 Hornet Gulf War I sim I used to play.

Were you able to nuke Baghdad too in the same game?

256 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:26:49pm

re: #241 ToddHerman

I'm going to have to go find the original sources for these statements of Holdren's beliefs...

"What none has yet noted is that Holdren is a globalist who has endorsed "surrender of sovereignty" to "a comprehensive Planetary Regime" that would control all the world's resources, direct global redistribution of wealth, oversee the "de-development" of the West, control a World Army and taxation regime, and enforce world population limits. "

If the quotes are the real deal (and not out of context) then I think it's obvious that science is the least of this guys interests.

257 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:27:24pm

Chechen leader imposes strict brand of Islam

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

The bullnecked president of Chechnya emerged from afternoon prayers at the mosque and with chilling composure explained why seven young women who had been shot in the head deserved to die.

The Kremlin appears willing to continue allowing Kadyrov to rule as he wishes, as long as he prevents another outbreak of violence. And Kadyrov has won the grudging respect of many Chechens for bringing a measure of peace and stability.

Hum, the devil making a deal with the devil? Only thing I am sure of, it ain't good for us.

258 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:27:42pm

lol. Click on the orange box on the right. It is a Tina Feyesk SNL news bit but it is conservative - ha - love it!


Newbusters

259 Cathypop  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:27:47pm

re: #239 jcm

Were do people think most food came from? Selective breeding for certain traits.
Which is just the slow manual method of genetic engineering.

Not sure what the scientific word is but the produce you buy at the grocery store has been nuetured. Seeds from a green pepper will produce a plant but no peppers. Alot of people are not aware of this

260 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:27:53pm

re: #255 Macker

Were you able to nuke Baghdad too in the same game?

You could nuke your own carrier.... but got a court martial for doing it.....

261 SixDegrees  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:28:21pm

re: #234 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, magazines like The Nation are boiling mad about his military budget increases. So much for the notion that he would "gut" the military and leave us all crouching in trenches, trembling at the imminent onslaught of jihadis, Chicoms and Russkies.

Exactly. We should encourage such displays of (at least marginal) rationalism, while exploiting the Left's displeasure with them.

262 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:28:49pm

Obama has the "understanding" of economics of someone who's essentially lived off other people for most of his life.

263 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:29:17pm

re: #257 Nevergiveup

Chechen leader imposes strict brand of Islam

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

The bullnecked president of Chechnya emerged from afternoon prayers at the mosque and with chilling composure explained why seven young women who had been shot in the head deserved to die.

The Kremlin appears willing to continue allowing Kadyrov to rule as he wishes, as long as he prevents another outbreak of violence. And Kadyrov has won the grudging respect of many Chechens for bringing a measure of peace and stability.

Hum, the devil making a deal with the devil? Only thing I am sure of, it ain't good for us.

Shooting 7 young women in the head? Oh good. No violence going on.
/God help us

264 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:29:28pm

re: #250 FreeRadical

O great. More people not particularly producing all that much and yet completely dependent on theft in order to get paid. Fuck Obama.

Honestly, I am closely related to a fairly high-level scientist who works for the federal government (he's been there through a few administrations), and he frankly works his ass off...and I don't want to give a lot of information about what he does, but believe me, his job is useful and necessary.

I can't speak to the funding for the agencies in this piece, of course, but some of it might be money put to decent use.

265 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:29:39pm

re: #260 jcm

You could nuke your own carrier.... but got a court martial for doing it.....

What they court martial your ashes?

266 Salem  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:29:53pm

re: #234 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, magazines like The Nation are boiling mad about his military budget increases. So much for the notion that he would "gut" the military and leave us all crouching in trenches, trembling at the imminent onslaught of jihadis, Chicoms and Russkies.

Well, I don't remember anyone putting it that way, exactly.

267 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:30:17pm

re: #241 ToddHerman

Yes and here is his Science Adviser:

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

The function of such welfare is twofold: to enrich citizens of the Global South and to impoverish Americans for their own good. In a 2006 paper, Holdren noted that reducing "GDP per person" -- that is, cutting your personal wealth -- also reduces Greenhouse Gas emissions. True, it is "not a lever that most people would want to use to reduce emissions"; "People are not getting rich as fast as they think, however, if GDP growth is being achieved at the expense of the environmental underpinnings of well-being" (pp. 15-16).

268 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:30:28pm

re: #253 jcm

I can always count on a tail twist from you!
;-)

:D
Just humbly trying to do my duty.
/also getting good at touch-typing while hiding under the desk

269 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:30:41pm

re: #259 Cathypop

Not sure what the scientific word is but the produce you buy at the grocery store has been nuetured. Seeds from a green pepper will produce a plant but no peppers. Alot of people are not aware of this

Hybrid

270 VioletTiger  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:30:59pm

I'm glad that science is not under the bus.

However, I hope the Rumplestiltskin 'turn straw into gold' project is funded. We're gonna need it./

271 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:31:22pm

re: #253 jcm

I can always count on a tail twist from you!
;-)

addendum to #268 ...
We tease people whom we like.

272 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:31:50pm

re: #262 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Obama has the "understanding" of economics of someone who's essentially lived off other people for most of his life.

* * *
Obama's mastered the SCIENCE of Community Organizing, and perfected it at Harvard, then got his Ph.D in Crooked Cook County, IL.

273 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:32:21pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

OT:WHAT DID I SEE AT CPAC?

/Hot Air Headlines.

Interesting.

274 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:32:22pm

re: #265 Nevergiveup

What they court martial your ashes?

Idiots loop! Start at 5,000, pull to 45° release at about 8000, pull over the top and punch the burners, you're a long way away when the thing hits.

275 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:32:24pm

re: #252 MandyManners

I hate people who hate humanity.

276 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:32:35pm

re: #256 Lincolntf

I'm going to have to go find the original sources for these statements of Holdren's beliefs...

"What none has yet noted is that Holdren is a globalist who has endorsed "surrender of sovereignty" to "a comprehensive Planetary Regime" that would control all the world's resources, direct global redistribution of wealth, oversee the "de-development" of the West, control a World Army and taxation regime, and enforce world population limits. "

If the quotes are the real deal (and not out of context) then I think it's obvious that science is the least of this guys interests.


Holdren gave a clear indication of his philosophical views in the 1977 book Ecoscience, which he co-authored with Paul and Anne Ehrlich.

277 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:32:58pm

re: #264 capitalist piglet


I can't speak to the funding for the agencies in this piece, of course, but some of it might be money put to decent use.

P.S. I realize that this doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. : )

278 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:33:25pm

re: #256 Lincolntf

Other souces are provided in the article.

279 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:34:48pm

re: #263 monkeytime

Shooting 7 young women in the head? Oh good. No violence going on.
/God help us

* * *
The f'ng WashingtonPost characterized an Iraqi woman dancing in a bar in Baghdad, in today's paper, as a prostitute. She was fully clothed, only arms exposed.

Niiiiiiiice, liberal WashPost, takes the beheaders' side in judgmentalism against women.

280 kafir lover  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:35:21pm

re: #252 MandyManners

I think this is a clear indication of a much larger philosophical agenda at work within the new administration.

281 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:35:43pm

Good afternoon lizards..I just rented body of lies..Hope it's good.
How is everyone this chilly day?

282 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:35:47pm

re: #276 MandyManners

Does Obama know anybody who isn't a seething fringe-dweller, no matter what their area of "expertise" is? Sheesh.
As for the other poster who said science hadn't been thrown under the bus, I wouldn't be so sure. Just because money is "going to" science doesn't mean we'll get any real science. Think about how much money goes to "education" with very limited returns.

283 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:35:50pm

re: #238 monkeytime

I guess the lefties can lecture us about whining and self pity since they perfected it and then mutated it into a Frankenstein version of it's former self for the last 8 years. Must give credit where credit is due, when it comes to whining and self pity, we are amatures.

Perhaps, but we don't want to become professionals at it, do we?

284 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:36:13pm

re: #270 VioletTiger

I'm glad that science is not under the bus.

However, I hope the Rumplestiltskin 'turn straw into gold' project is funded. We're gonna need it./

* * *
That's the science Obama believes in: Wallet extraction.

285 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:36:17pm

re: #274 jcm

Idiots loop! Start at 5,000, pull to 45° release at about 8000, pull over the top and punch the burners, you're a long way away when the thing hits.

Yeah I heard about that technique. I wonder who came up with the name. I assume a pilot, but someone must have been the first.

286 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:36:19pm

re: #259 Cathypop

Not sure what the scientific word is but the produce you buy at the grocery store has been nuetured. Seeds from a green pepper will produce a plant but no peppers. Alot of people are not aware of this

They are hybrids that don't breed true. The seeds don't make a plant just like its parent. Sometimes the plant is patented.

287 bellamags  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:36:32pm

re: #281 HoosierHoops

Good afternoon lizards..I just rented body of lies..Hope it's good.
How is everyone this chilly day?

I'm goin to the MONSTER TRUCK JAM tonight. No, really, I am.

288 Cathypop  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:37:23pm

re: #286 wrenchwench

Thank you

289 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:37:40pm

re: #275 wrenchwench

I hate people who hate humanity.

There's a lot to hate with this guy.

290 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:37:42pm

I am happy that the DOE is getting funding. Bush talked a good game on energy, but really did zip -- it was all planning, commissions, and pretty much zero real action. Nothing really went to funding -- we should have had some nuclear plants built during his two terms, we got zip. It's one of the areas I have a real disagreement with him on.

291 Timbre  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:04pm

O/T: Just got Rush's "Retrospective 3" CD/DVD & lithograph in the mail! Well worth the $22.00!

292 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:13pm

re: #287 bellamags

I'm goin to the MONSTER TRUCK JAM tonight. No, really, I am.

* * *
Enjoy it while you can.

293 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:16pm

re: #287 bellamags

I'm goin to the MONSTER TRUCK JAM tonight. No, really, I am.

That sounds like fun! What are you going to do afterwards?

294 SurferDoc  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:25pm

Hiya, HH. You just rented a body of lies? I just got handed a pile of bullshit. I think you did better.

295 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:37pm

re: #283 reine.de.tout

Perhaps, but we don't want to become professionals at it, do we?

No, we couldn't if we wanted to. The lefties take all the cry babyjobs as soon as they come open.

:>)

296 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:41pm

re: #282 Lincolntf

Does Obama know anybody who isn't a seething fringe-dweller, no matter what their area of "expertise" is? Sheesh.
As for the other poster who said science hadn't been thrown under the bus, I wouldn't be so sure. Just because money is "going to" science doesn't mean we'll get any real science. Think about how much money goes to "education" with very limited returns.

Science is just a tool. It can be used to hurt humanity or, to help it. And, what some see as helping us can actually destroy us.

297 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:38:53pm

re: #290 Thanos

I am happy that the DOE is getting funding. Bush talked a good game on energy, but really did zip -- it was all planning, commissions, and pretty much zero real action. Nothing really went to funding -- we should have had some nuclear plants built during his two terms, we got zip. It's one of the areas I have a real disagreement with him on.

Congress and the nature lovers never would have gone along

298 Lynn B.  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:39:13pm

re: #251 SixDegrees

Good point. But I'll point out that it's also in the national interest to keep the best and the brightest we have working. In this country. They're highly paid for a reason, and they're smart enough to learn Chinese in a hurry if they have to.

I'd much rather see us deficit spending to keep our engineers and scientists working than throwing it away on nebulous "infrastructure" jobs that will vanish the moment the Magical Money Pump gets turned off.

I couldn't agree more. But that's not what Obama is suggesting. He has no intention of sacrificing the "infrastructure jobs" and he insists he's going to cut the deficit in half. So I already feel the little hands trying to slip into my nearly empty pocket. Meanwhile, as discussed above, we're sending almost a billion dollars in spare change to fund the development of more deadly rockets in Gaza. It's all nuts.

299 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:39:26pm

re: #297 Nevergiveup

Congress and the nature lovers never would have gone along

We had control of congress, remember?

300 jcm  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:39:58pm

re: #285 Nevergiveup

Yeah I heard about that technique. I wonder who came up with the name. I assume a pilot, but someone must have been the first.

Official name was Low Altitude Bombing System. Pilots had the more accurate name.

301 alegrias  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:40:09pm

re: #290 Thanos

I am happy that the DOE is getting funding. Bush talked a good game on energy, but really did zip -- it was all planning, commissions, and pretty much zero real action. Nothing really went to funding -- we should have had some nuclear plants built during his two terms, we got zip. It's one of the areas I have a real disagreement with him on.

* * *
Department of Energy? What did Clinton's DOE do when his crony,
Bill Richardson the fat democrat presidential wannabee & Obama supporter & recent candidate for Commerce Secretary, ran DOE?

Democrats were supposed to have given us magical free energy years ago.

302 bellamags  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:40:09pm

re: #293 HoosierHoops

That sounds like fun! What are you going to do afterwards?

Well, if I can still hear properly and if the rain hasn't soaked us through, we will probably hit some bars in a cool part of town called Riverside. Its an old renovated theater district near downtown. Lots of trendy spots. Drink too much and definitely have a blast.

303 Proximate  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:06pm

Who care's if it's $25,000 a taxpayer and we have to inflate all our money! If he's spending money on my favorite cause, let's all hail Obama! In fact, let's urge him to spend $100,000,000 per taxpayer. The money won't be worth spit soon anyway.

/sarcasm off

304 pat  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:07pm

None to DARPA, the most successful science/tech program in the world? And second only to Bell Labs as the best in history. Dimes to pennies DARPA gets its budget cut.

305 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:15pm

re: #289 MandyManners

There's a lot to hate with this guy.

Personally, I don't believe in overpopulation. I think the "carrying capacity" of the earth is at least 50 billion people. Those who make kids feel unwelcome on this planet because "people are bad for the environment" are among the most evil.

306 kafir lover  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:26pm

re: #298 Lynn B.

What none has yet noted is that Holdren is a globalist who has endorsed "surrender of sovereignty" to "a comprehensive Planetary Regime" that would control all the world's resources, direct global redistribution of wealth, oversee the "de-development" of the West, control a World Army and taxation regime, and enforce world population limits.

It's less irrational when seen in this context.

307 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:34pm

re: #299 Thanos

We had control of congress, remember?

Not the whole time and some republicans would have gone over to the dark side on that issue I think.

308 monkeytime  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:40pm

re: #301 alegrias

* * *
Department of Energy? What did Clinton's DOE do when his crony,
Bill Richardson the fat democrat presidential wannabee & Obama supporter & recent candidate for Commerce Secretary, ran DOE?

Democrats were supposed to have given us magical free energy years ago.

Free lives in the land of our unicorns. If it is real and we have it, it will be taxed.

309 VioletTiger  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:41:57pm

re: #281 HoosierHoops

Good afternoon lizards..I just rented body of lies..Hope it's good.
How is everyone this chilly day?


Snowing out your way? We're waiting for a little winter weather tonight. Early dinner and we'll rent something I think.

310 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:42:27pm

re: #301 alegrias

* * *
Department of Energy? What did Clinton's DOE do when his crony,
Bill Richardson the fat democrat presidential wannabee & Obama supporter & recent candidate for Commerce Secretary, ran DOE?

Democrats were supposed to have given us magical free energy years ago.

It doesn't matter what Clinton did or didn't do. We had Congress, the courts pretty much, and the Presidency and did really squat for energy, it was one of our biggest failures. Would we have had two years of sustained high energy prices if we had a few Nukes building in 2006? I think the Republicans wanted the issue, not the solution.

311 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:42:29pm

re: #290 Thanos

I am happy that the DOE is getting funding. Bush talked a good game on energy, but really did zip -- it was all planning, commissions, and pretty much zero real action. Nothing really went to funding -- we should have had some nuclear plants built during his two terms, we got zip. It's one of the areas I have a real disagreement with him on.

Is there some indication that the DOE is going to invest in nuclear technology with this stimulus money?

312 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:43:20pm

re: #302 bellamags

Well, if I can still hear properly and if the rain hasn't soaked us through, we will probably hit some bars in a cool part of town called Riverside. Its an old renovated theater district near downtown. Lots of trendy spots. Drink too much and definitely have a blast.

Thats what I'm talking about! we went out with 2 other couples last night and had way too much fun..Have a blast bella!
Regards
/my head kindof hurts..Is that normal? :)

313 Lynn B.  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:43:44pm

re: #306 kafir lover

It's less irrational when seen in this context.

It is?

314 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:44:00pm

re: #311 capitalist piglet

Is there some indication that the DOE is going to invest in nuclear technology with this stimulus money?

I haven't heard peep about building any Nuclear Power plants. And that is a shame, whoever is to blame.

315 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:44:28pm

re: #307 Nevergiveup

Not the whole time and some republicans would have gone over to the dark side on that issue I think.

Like I said above, it's one of my big disappointments with President Bush. We could have done more. It's not as big a deal as Schiavo I guess.

316 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:45:07pm

His thirst for economic redistribution (read: socialism) is not limited to foreign affairs. In a chapter of Ecoscience entitled "Changing American Institutions," Holdren and the Ehrlichs call for a "considerably more equitable distribution of wealth and income" in the United States, offering in passing, "Possibly this would be achieved by some formal mechanism" (p. 875). Might that mechanism perchance be government force? The text praises an economist's plan to limit American achievement at a $100,000 maximum annual salary, or just under $350,000 in 2009 dollars, adjusted for inflation (p. 850). Such would be the most socialistic proposal made in modern times. Even Huey Long allowed men a million dollars a year, in 1934.

But the intervening years have not been pleasant ones for such as Holdren. In a 1995 article co-written with Paul Ehrlich, he lists among the factors preventing a "sustainable" world such "Underlying human frailties" as "Greed, selfishness, intolerance, and shortsightedness." These, he expounds, "collectively have been elevated by conservative political doctrine and practice (above all in the United States in 1980 92) to the status of a credo."

Holdren blasted his country last January before the AAAS as "the stingiest among all" wealthy nations in its development of the Third World, making us "the meanest of wealthy countries." He summed up his view of the U.S. budget by favorably quoting Robert Kates: "Too much for warfare, too little for welfare."

317 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:45:30pm

re: #309 VioletTiger

Snowing out your way? We're waiting for a little winter weather tonight. Early dinner and we'll rent something I think.

No..we are dry..but really chilly..The wind is really blowing..went out with the dog and it just cuts right through you...Can't wait till spring!

318 Maui Girl  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:45:36pm

re: #257 Nevergiveup

Chechen leader imposes strict brand of Islam

And we can thank Prez Clinton for this, his biggest foreign policy faux pas regarding Bosnia.

319 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:46:26pm

re: #315 Thanos

Like I said above, it's one of my big disappointments with President Bush. We could have done more. It's not as big a deal as Schiavo I guess.

I agree with you 100%. Whoever is at fault, it is a tragedy we did/have not/ and will not move forward on that.

320 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:46:35pm

It was really a big fat blown opportunity, under Obama there aren't going to be nuclear plants built.

/I am hoping I'm wrong, but... seeing hopenchange so far is not encouraging.

321 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:46:36pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

Personally, I don't believe in overpopulation. I think the "carrying capacity" of the earth is at least 50 billion people. Those who make kids feel unwelcome on this planet because "people are bad for the environment" are among the most evil.

Did you read what he wrote about forced abortions?

322 Truck Monkey  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:47:26pm

re: #303 Proximate

Who care's if it's $25,000 a taxpayer and we have to inflate all our money! If he's spending money on my favorite cause, let's all hail Obama! In fact, let's urge him to spend $100,000,000 per taxpayer. The money won't be worth spit soon anyway.

/sarcasm off

No sarcasm sensed. You are speaking truth. I never thought that I'd see the day when our money fell to the level of the Turkish Lira but I fear that that is where we are headed. If you are still a producer in todays economy prepare to be bitch slapped. I, for one, am tired of pulling the wagon. I think that I might just want to ride for a while.

323 capitalist piglet  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:47:36pm

re: #319 Nevergiveup

I agree with you 100%. Whoever is at fault, it is a tragedy we did/have not/ and will not move forward on that.

Was there resistance from individual states?

324 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:47:58pm

re: #321 MandyManners

Did you read what he wrote about forced abortions?

Yes. That's the ultimate evil. And I'm pro-choice.

325 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:50:22pm

re: #255 Macker

Were you able to nuke Baghdad too in the same game?

Nope. It was a tactical nuke for hardened targets. The giant cannon mission was the only one where the tactical nuke was in the loadout.

326 Lincolntf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:50:59pm

re: #316 MandyManners

Alright, now I've scanned a few of his articles/wikis. This guy is a raving lunatic. Anyone who thinks that science is getting a boost from Obama might want to check to see if their definition of science includes global social engineering achieved by applying limits on human (particularly Western) achievement.
If Obama insists on keeping this bozo around, I hope he puts him in a tiny, out of the way office where he can't effect anything.

327 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:51:53pm

re: #324 wrenchwench

Yes. That's the ultimate evil. And I'm pro-choice.

I bet he just loves China.

328 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:52:45pm

re: #326 Lincolntf

Alright, now I've scanned a few of his articles/wikis. This guy is a raving lunatic. Anyone who thinks that science is getting a boost from Obama might want to check to see if their definition of science includes global social engineering achieved by applying limits on human (particularly Western) achievement.
If Obama insists on keeping this bozo around, I hope he puts him in a tiny, out of the way office where he can't effect anything.

Why should he? His ideas go along with those of Wright, Dohrn, Ayers, et al..

329 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:53:34pm

re: #327 MandyManners

I bet he just loves China.

Admires their "infrastructure," just like Obama, I'm sure.

330 VioletTiger  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:54:45pm

re: #316 MandyManners

That is really scary. I'm reading Atlas Shrugged right now, and the parallels are both strange and disturbing.

331 VioletTiger  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:55:57pm

Well, hubby meant Really early dinner. Have a great evening all.

332 Wendya  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:57:35pm

re: #19 revGDright

What's so scientific about increasing the EPA budget? All they'll do is hire more bureaucrats to write more rules. Most "investment" by industry in cleaning up the environment will then be applied to hiring more buildings full of bean counters who's job it is to produce paperwork to prove how their company is in compliance with the new rules the new bureaucrats will write.

Not to mention the new taxes that will be imposed on us by government agencies.

333 Dragonwolf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:58:20pm

re: #114 Perplexed

Please feel free to comment. We're not coming in the middle of the night to drag you out of bed by your heels and off to a reeducation camp - at least not yet.

After all, we haven't finished the emptying and refit of Gitmo yet.

334 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:59:12pm

re: #329 wrenchwench

Admires their "infrastructure," just like Obama, I'm sure.

Children were dying during the Olympics due to tainted milk yet the government refused to warn the public because it would smear their reputation.

335 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 1:59:41pm

re: #330 VioletTiger

That is really scary. I'm reading Atlas Shrugged right now, and the parallels are both strange and disturbing.

Yes, they are.

336 Colonel Panik  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:00:49pm

re: #260 jcm

You could nuke your own carrier.... but got a court martial for doing it.....

LOL. Never tried that. Even in a sim, that's just wrong!

The giant cannon mission was difficult. There were several Sukhoi 27 Flankers (which AFAIK the Iraq Air Force never had in real life) that were trying to bracket you on the way in, and if you didn't fly the right approach and release for the bomb correctly the shockwave from the nuke would take you out.

Actually, there was one other mission in the game where you used the tactical nuke on a dam.

337 Wendya  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:05:27pm

re: #311 capitalist piglet

Is there some indication that the DOE is going to invest in nuclear technology with this stimulus money?

Well, Obama has killed Yucca Mountain. Now he's going to descend from the heavens, wave his magic wand and invent a brand new way to store nuclear materials without generating any more nuclear waste.

In other words, the only money he's going to spend on anything nuclear will be spent on eliminating our nuclear arsenals.

But don't worry... even though you'll spend every waking moment trying to pay for a roof over your head and "clean green energy", hope and change will make you feel all warm and fuzzy!

338 JCM  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:05:56pm

re: #336 Colonel Panik

LOL. Never tried that. Even in a sim, that's just wrong!

The giant cannon mission was difficult. There were several Sukhoi 27 Flankers (which AFAIK the Iraq Air Force never had in real life) that were trying to bracket you on the way in, and if you didn't fly the right approach and release for the bomb correctly the shockwave from the nuke would take you out.

Actually, there was one other mission in the game where you used the tactical nuke on a dam.

The post mission graphic instead of showing you getting medals and a promotion showed you stripes and behind bars. On the cannon mission I flew really low under the Flankers, tossed the bomb, then took on the flankers on the way out. The AI of the game hand them looking on your inbound track and if you came back at them the other way it got you inside missile range before they detected you.

The carrier was a wild hair one day, I wanted to see want max range on a toss bomb I could get. Didn't get nucs in training missions, and I didn't want to hassale with MiGs just fooling around.

339 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:11:28pm

re: #334 MandyManners

Children were dying during the Olympics due to tainted milk yet the government refused to warn the public because it would smear their reputation.

And yet I never hear about "evil greedy communists." Only capitalists are greedy.

340 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:13:10pm
341 Dragonwolf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:13:13pm

re: #221 SixDegrees

This sort of problem isn't unique to NASA. In fact, NASA has the best launch record of any nation. But getting an extremely complex piece of machinery into a precise orbit using another extremely precise piece of machinery, each containing hundreds of thousands of exquisitely crafted parts, and having everything work, is not a simple task. Failure at launch is still fairly common, and the chances of everything going well enough to call the mission a success - placement in the correct orbit and passage of all initialization checks - is somewhere around 75% - 80%.

The ESA numbers are more like 60% - 70%. And no one else even comes close to that.

There will always be failures when you're working at the bleeding edge of what's possible.

Can NASA really be said to be working at the 'bleeding edge' of what's possible? At the rate technology advances, there's no reasonable way that a government agency can be using anything newer than 3-4 generations old by the time they get it produced and on the launch pad.

342 formercorpsman  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:16:20pm

While I think it is great we push into the future, & persist as the vanguard of technology, I can't help but feel concerned by what strings might be attached.

Perhaps I am just fooling myself, but once upon a time, it seemed as if science & technology might have held a position outside the spectrum of vulnerability in influential politic.

I have become convinced, nothing, anymore, is beyond reproach once a politician has entertained it, even as a passing thought. It morphs into a football, to be kicked, or segued as a vehicle for fund raising, or political payback.

So far, inside of one month, & despite my political objections to him, Obama has managed to contradict nearly every fucking sound bite & declaration spouted during his campaign.

This is the same guy, the benevolent community organizer who directed boatloads of money to Tony Rezko in the spirit of rehabbing insufficient domiciles for his disadvantaged constituency, ironically enough to find himself the obtuse benefactor of the Rezmar Corporation.

Yeah, sure.

We can make side notes, find certain instances to sing praise when it appears to contradict our gut reaction of this impresario, but I am not convinced in the least, this is not an investment minus the forethought of foible dividends.

I just don't.

343 screaming_eagle  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:17:07pm

re: #334 MandyManners

Children were dying during the Olympics due to tainted milk yet the government refused to warn the public because it would smear their reputation.

How many children died due to the construction of schools? Yet Obama bragged up China.

344 Dragonwolf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:17:22pm

re: #223 brookly red

I never used to fear government...

Properly armed citizens have no need to fear their government. And we have the second amendment after all.........we had the...........we...........well heck.

Time to paint a yellow stripe down my back I guess.

345 formercorpsman  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:20:08pm

re: #316 MandyManners

Delusions of grandeur.

The Devil is playing hopscotch.

346 Dragonwolf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:28:27pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

Personally, I don't believe in overpopulation. I think the "carrying capacity" of the earth is at least 50 billion people. Those who make kids feel unwelcome on this planet because "people are bad for the environment" are among the most evil.

I agree. The science is there to produce the needed food/resources. It's the governments that keep getting in the way. But only to get their cut of the money.....I mean only to keep their people safe.

347 So?  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:32:40pm

I can only guess that Obama played a lot of "Monopoly" as a kid and kept building hotels on Park Place. He also probably always passed GO and never went to JAIL.

348 wolfie  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:35:10pm

re: #241 ToddHerman

Yes and here is his Science Adviser:

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

Science!

349 So?  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:36:13pm

re: #346 Dragonwolf

I agree. The science is there to produce the needed food/resources. It's the governments that keep getting in the way. But only to get their cut of the money.....I mean only to keep their people safe.

50 BILLION? SHOW ME THE PROOF. If everyone alive today lived the average American's lifestyle the planet would be overtaxed to the hilt. There's more strain on the Earth besides growing food. Have 50 billion people flush their toilets twice a day....am I getting through. Didn't think so.

350 Dragonwolf  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:52:53pm

re: #349 So?

50 BILLION? SHOW ME THE PROOF. If everyone alive today lived the average American's lifestyle the planet would be overtaxed to the hilt. There's more strain on the Earth besides growing food. Have 50 billion people flush their toilets twice a day....am I getting through. Didn't think so.

I said the technology exists. Look at the reclamation technology aboard the intl. space station. Look at out nuclear subs and our aircraft carriers.

I never said that the processes or products would be natural. Your claiming a lack of resources (the planet would be overtaxed) but then argue a lack of garbage space. Perhaps you're not getting through because you're not being consistent from premise to proof.

351 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:54:21pm
352 formercorpsman  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 2:55:21pm

re: #351 Iron Fist

Most people in the military do not make enough to donate politically.

353 Proximate  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 3:41:56pm

re: #322 Truck Monkey

re: #322 Truck Monkey

No sarcasm sensed. You are speaking truth. I never thought that I'd see the day when our money fell to the level of the Turkish Lira but I fear that that is where we are headed. If you are still a producer in todays economy prepare to be bitch slapped. I, for one, am tired of pulling the wagon. I think that I might just want to ride for a while.

Thanks. These radical actions are scaring everybody, and a big percentage of the people I know are being laid off or are on light hours.

If the US become more repressive, my fallback positions are Australia (depending on what's happening there) or Brazil. I need to start boning up on Portuguese.

354 Lib Wingnut  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 4:01:04pm

Too late for my suffering father, dying of Alzheimer's. But I hope that with the new emphasis this administration has in using science for the greater good, there will be a cure one day. Stem cell research, here we come.

355 Yosemite Bill  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 4:53:32pm

354 - Lib Wingnut -
My prayers for your father but embryonic stem cell research has been and is a dead end.
Adult stem cell research on the other hand has yielded some useful and applicable therapies. If you doubt that statement look into where the private research money in stem cells is going.
On the primary topic of this thread - funding "science" through the porkulus bill....... .
The EPA is NOT I repeat NOT a science based bureaucracy !
From first person experience with the Gore/ Browner/ Clinton EPA I assure you all - Charles included- that science ain't got a Da** thing to do with the EPA's eco-socialist agenda.
We - the Republic- came within a few votes on the FQPA of 1996 of being forced to surrender 80% of our crop protectants - "pesticides" if Gore and Browner and those idiots at EPA had gotten their wishes.
We - those of us in production agriculture- would have literally be forced to go back to farming with a hoe.
The New Earthers look like Edison next to the bunch Obummer has installed...... .

356 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 5:39:49pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

C'mon, you bunch of Luddites. Expanding science budgets and lightening up on stem cell research are good things.

Yeah, too bad these budget measures seem to be more about expanding bureaucracy, ain't it?

And Bush didn't impose any kind of ban on stem-cell research. His policy was simply that Federal funds were not to be used for research using fetal stem cells, which are obtained as a byproduct of abortions. Seems he had an ethical problem with that. But corporations and privately-funded foundations were free to work in that realm, if they so chose.

Not all science has to be funded by government, you know.

357 Dr. Stu  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 5:51:41pm

I'm not sure if they listed this, but the National Institute of Health will be getting $10 billion. I knew that if Obama got in we would experience a windfall. I'm wondering if this will stop the annoying and inevitible graphs at scientific conferences showing a big dip in funding that was a result of a freeze in NIH funds not in cut in when Bush got into office. That's not all though folks; before Obama was elected I had lunch with a seminar speaker who was excited to be working with Ted Kennedy on his national healthcare plan which would include millions for an Center for Organogenesis. In other words, covering the healthcare of everyone isn't the only thing that will be coveredvin the healthcare plan.

358 Dr. Stu  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 5:54:31pm

Please excuse any mispellings in my post. I used an iPod touch to post, and LGF is the slowest and buggiest website on an iPod touch.

359 kywrite  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 6:51:49pm

This, believe it or not, is a very large part of why our universities are dying. About a decade ago, the nursing school I worked at was in an uproar because the university president was pushing for this local commuter university to become a Stage III research university -- read, lots of grant money, lots of eggheads thinking and not teaching, and much higher costs overall. The result has been a lower quality of teaching for the students, lots more politics and stress for the professors, and much higher costs. And really -- a nursing college focusing on research instead of educating nurses? Not so great an idea. But where the university goes, thither goeth the schools and colleges under its umbrella.

Money funnelled into the big federal science organizations seems like a good idea on the surface. Unfortunately, it centralizes decisions like what projects get money, politicizing science and stifling innovative new research angles that might otherwise be funded by universities. This is a bad thing, not a good one.

360 kywrite  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 6:57:30pm

re: #344 Dragonwolf

Properly armed citizens have no need to fear their government. And we have the second amendment after all.........we had the...........we...........well heck.

Time to paint a yellow stripe down my back I guess.

My daddy's farm has plenty of ammo and places to hide. I very much doubt they will be taking his guns anytime soon because he will use them on anyone who tries it.

Love it that the new AG is pro-legal marijuana, anti-gun. I guess the states-rights argument is completely meaningless now.

361 Westward Ho  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 10:23:12pm

re: #164 IslandLibertarian

What percentage of scientific discovery came out of:
Privately owned laboratories?


Hey cut the government some slack the NUKES came from their labs.

Here's some research that is highly counterintuitive with regards to the role of government in high tech and sciences

Specialist universities that focus on technology are well regarded by academics around the world, The Times Higher ranking for technology subjects reveals. But some general universities with a technology focus also do well. Many governments regard technology (engineering, information technology and related areas of applied science) as a priority area for investment. These disciplines are also probably the area of academe for which industrial funding is most readily available. The strength of such institutions is exemplified by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's position as the top technology university. It has long been heavily funded by the US Government. It gets substantial funding for life sciences research as well as for its longer established work in engineering. In addition, its students tend to become successful executives and plough their wealth back into their alma mater. Second in the list is the University of California, Berkeley. It is one of a group of Californian institutions including Stanford University and the California Institute of Technology, in fifth and ninth places respectively, that rode the wave of the IT revolution and that now have similar plans for nanotechnology, robotics and other emerging forms of technology. But the presence of the Indian Institutes of Technology in third place shows that less developed nations can be effective competitors. The institutes appeared fourth and third respectively in this table in 2004 and 2005. They have been funded for decades at a lavish level by Indian standards, to a degree that has aroused ire in India's less well-resourced universities.But IIT graduates are leading India's surge into high technology, and the institutes have high-level political influence at federal and state levels, so they are likely to go on being well funded.MIT is probably the university every politician on Earth would like in their country. In recent years there has been discussion in Brussels about starting a European Institute of Technology to bring its economy-transforming virtues to the European Union. But this table would seem to show that Europe already has a university, Imperial College London, that can claim to be Europe's MIT. While no European institution matches the IITs in status with our peer reviewers, Imperial, Cambridge and Oxford all appear in the top 20, along with two other European universities, ETH Zurich in Switzerland and Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands. This suggests that European money would be better used to strengthen existing institutions than starting new ones. This table also shows that technological prowess is more widespread than other forms of academic excellence. The top 20 has universities from ten countries. Spending on specialist technology universities is simple for politicians to justify as an essential investment. This top 100 includes 25 institutions whose names suggest a technology orientation. In the US, it is routine for these institutions to be key economic players, spinning off companies or producing graduates who launch fast-growing start-ups. This model has spread to other parts of the world, notably to the UK but also to Germany, especially Munich, whose technical university comes in 32nd. But the ability of regions to produce successful spin-offs depends on more than a good university. It also calls for financial and government systems that support emerging businesses. This means that Europe and North America remain the best places to turn academic innovation into profit. ....

362 Westward Ho  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 11:08:29pm

re: #350 Dragonwolf


I am sorry you are full of shit there is no way 50 billion people could exist in this planet enjoying a modern western life style. If you think overcrowding is cool check the slums in the third world.

363 Westward Ho  Sat, Feb 28, 2009 11:37:47pm

re: #355 Yosemite Bill

354 - Lib Wingnut -
My prayers for your father but embryonic stem cell research has been and is a dead end....... .

Has been(SCR) is probably correct but I think that is very premature to pronounce it a dead end since genetics is still in it's infancy.

364 SixDegrees  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 4:22:30am
Can NASA really be said to be working at the 'bleeding edge' of what's possible? At the rate technology advances, there's no reasonable way that a government agency can be using anything newer than 3-4 generations old by the time they get it produced and on the launch pad.

I'm not aware of any private sector launch capabilities.

365 A.W.  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 8:38:02am

Mmm, and you know useful science only comes from governmental intervention. The TV, the automobile, the vacuum cleaner, all of these came from goverment, right?

Well, wrong of course.

In fact the government so far has given us computers. Which is a big thing, but one thing. Oh, and Tang. And Velcro. Anything else?

So i find the entire idea that funding science is "stimulative" to be dubious at best. Government isn't the solution, guys; it is the problem.

366 donk1100  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 8:38:34am

these government agencies (except for NASA) are pseudoscience organizations at best,,esp the EPA. the EPA has ignored science for fifty years. the other groups are lefty, global warming money holes. it reminds me of ghost busters when Dan Ackroid (sp) said after they were fired from the university..... "we will just have to get a private sector research position" to which Bill m. said "what? are you kidding me,,,,they expect results"

367 SigniferOne  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 11:27:16am

I don't understand, Charles why are you supporting spending taxpayers' dollars like this?

And why mock Jindal's opposition to 'volcano monitoring' just a few days earlier?

We as a society didn't establish government for all this!

368 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 12:04:19pm

re: #367 SigniferOne

I don't understand, Charles why are you supporting spending taxpayers' dollars like this?

And why mock Jindal's opposition to 'volcano monitoring' just a few days earlier?

We as a society didn't establish government for all this!

The kind of "big science" that's done by agencies like the NSF and NASA has to be funded by government. Their projects, and the Department of Energy's Advanced Research Projects Agency, I consider vital to the future of America.

And that "volcano monitoring" thing could potentially save a lot of human lives.

Yes, absolutely, I do support these kinds of government projects. As opposed to the massive health care takeover, for example, which will be much more expensive with far less chance of productive results.

369 Doctor Know  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 1:20:44pm

re: #368 Charles

The kind of "big science" that's done by agencies like the NSF and NASA have to be funded by government. Their projects, and the Department of Energy's Advanced Research Projects Agency, I consider vital to the future of America.

Really? You consider NASA's projects "vital to the future of America"? As for the Department of Energy, I think it's rather optimistic of you to suppose that simply throwing money at the problem of energy is a means to improvement. Most disappointing over the last month or so has been the complete absence of any prominent mention of increasing nuclear power in the US. We haven't built a new nuclear power plant in the US in decades, not because of safety or technical problems, but because of political considerations. Political considerations that show very little sign of changing, and in that light it's instructive that the quote you provide details a dramatic increase in the funding of the EPA, which will in fact have a larger budget then the NSF.


And that "volcano monitoring" thing could potentially save a lot of human lives.

It could save a lot of lives, true, but it may also save no lives; as an objective matter, if saving lives is your goal, there are many expenditures that could yield orders of magnitude greater savings on a dollar-for-dollar comparison. Mosquito control and basic water hygiene in the developing world, for instance. Many things could save lives, that's not a blanket reason to abandon the question of who should be paying for it and how we prioritize spending our (very limited) resources.


Yes, absolutely, I do support these kinds of government projects. As opposed to the massive health care takeover, for example, which will be much more expensive with far less chance of productive results.

Where specifically do you see government projects (as opposed to government supported private projects) as critical? Granted there is some big science that simply cannot be done by private companies such as large accelerators and so on, but most public health issues of science don't seem particularly neglected by private industry, and materials science (such as semiconductors) isn't exactly lacking interest in private research.

A greater role of government, on the other hand, as arbiter of what is perused in science as a whole can be quite worrisome; witness the debate on embryonic stem cells, where the science took an overwhelming back-seat to political posturing on both sides. Or consider the current brouhaha over vaccine safety: the possible damage to the nation by indulging the fantasists on this issue would be staggering.

On the healthcare takeover, I don't think any reasonable person can look honestly at what is coming without trepidation.

370 Leigh  Sun, Mar 1, 2009 2:41:45pm

Throwing government money at biotech research is a BAD idea - I know it kills jobs - it killed mine.

I worked for a biotech company until about a month ago. My 9 year job came to an end because we merged with another company after the prime candidate drug we were researching failed it's phase III clinical trial. That happens - so I don't hold any particular grudges about that - we needed to merge with somebody.


The problem I have is that we merged with a private company that gets ALL their research done by NIH grant money - which the company re-directs through universities. So... the university gets the jobs (and some of the profits) employing professors and low-wage graduate students; the company gets to share the intellectual property (patents) with the university; the taxpayer gets nothing; and I get UNEMPLOYED because these TAKERS that run the company we merged with "don't employ private researchers." The management at the private company we merged with were quite pleased with themselves - and quite proud of their business plan. Do research with free money and pocket the resulting research profits. Privatize the profits and make the research costs and risks public - while putting non-government and non-academic researchers unemployed.

OK - that's just stupid.

371 MJBrutus  Mon, Mar 2, 2009 4:47:00am

re: #9 Emmmieg

I would be happier if the National Science folks were getting a 35 percent increase, and the EPA was getting an 8.5 percent increase.

Me too. The billions going to the EPA are for chasing CO2 hysteria. I'm all for science and glad to see legitimate scientific research getting funding, but can only imagine what the global warming junk science crowd will do with the massive cash infusion.


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