Miniaturizing the Sun

Science • Views: 5,935

The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is preparing to start the first serious experiments on a possibly world-changing new technology: Fusion tests set at new Livermore facility.

Outside a concrete slab of a building 10 stories high that holds the most powerful array of lasers and high-precision optics ever assembled, the scientists, engineers and workers who created the massive structure at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory celebrated its dedication Friday.

The celebration in a heavily guarded section of the Lawrence Livermore lab marked the fact that research and tests are about to start at the new $3.5 billion National Ignition Facility, or NIF. It will be an unprecedented, years-long physics experiment, and the outcome is by no means certain.

It’s purpose is to focus the immense energy in an array of 120 laser beams onto a tiny glass target the size of a BB shot, which is filled with hydrogen. This is all done under immensely high pressure to make the target heat like the fiery interior of a star at a 180 million degrees Fahrenheit.

At that instant - theory says but experiments have yet to achieve - the hydrogen isotope atoms inside the target would fuse to become helium and release more energy in a trillionth of a second than it took to produce the blast in the first place.

To scientists that outcome is called “ignition,” a self-sustaining split-second of thermonuclear fusion that would - if successful - serve three vital functions:

— Enable the keepers of America’s nuclear warheads to make sure that, after decades in storage, those elderly weapons are still “safe, secure and reliable,” as their keepers hope.

— Enable astrophysicists and other scientists to study for the first time what kind of matter lies inside exploding stars, as well as in the deep high-pressure interior of Earth and its sister planets.

— Finally, if the coming years of experiments, which start next year, are successful, a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans.

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186 comments
1 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:06:07pm

Well...since that particle collider didn't end the world, maybe this will do the trick

/

2 Nevergiveup  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:06:17pm

I think I saw the movie.

3 Kragar  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:06:49pm

re: #2 Nevergiveup

I think I saw the movie.

Spiderman 2?

4 poteen  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:06:59pm

Thermo-nuclear power. Al Gore will hate it.

5 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:08:07pm

re: #4 poteen

Thermo-nuclear power. Al Gore will hate it.

Al Gore will fly around in a chartered learjet and charge a couple hundred bucks a head to let us know exactly how much he hates it.

6 Nevergiveup  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:08:40pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Spiderman 2?

Chain Reaction

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

7 SpaceJesus  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:09:48pm

will they be unlocking the terrible secret of space

8 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:10:20pm

OT: Military train passing through Plano, TX on the Kansas City Southern.

Interestingly, the third locomotive in is still wearing the colors of the National Railway of Mexico (Ferrocarriles Nacionales de Mexico/FNM).

9 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:10:44pm

re: #8 Fenway_Nation

A link would help

10 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:11:27pm

re: #6 Nevergiveup

That's 106 minutes of my life that I'm never getting back, thank you very much!

11 DEZes  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:12:19pm

Just to add.
[Link: www.courier-journal.com...]

12 Velvet Elvis  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:12:35pm

re: #1 Fenway_Nation

Well...since that particle collider didn't end the world, maybe this will do the trick

/

We don't know yet on that one. They broke it before they could complete the experiment. It could still happen. /sarc

13 avanti  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:12:51pm

OT Susan Boyle comes in second in Britain Got
talent

link...

14 enoughalready  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:13:42pm

1: The particle collider was never intended to support fusion as a viable energy source (That would be ITER)
2: This is very cool although myon catalyzed would be infintely cooler
3: We will get some form of cheap and emission free energy within the next ten years, the question is just which contender will be first to commercialize their technology (it takes much MUCH longer than you think and the building of serious MW plants is a pretty daunting feat.)
4: The major problem going forward will be how we can build the next generations of batteries with materials that don't run out wuickly.

15 poteen  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:14:26pm

re: #11 DEZes

Imagine that kind of power in a 64 GTO.

16 Nevergiveup  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:14:34pm

re: #12 Conservative Moonbat

We don't know yet on that one. They broke it before they could complete the experiment. It could still happen. /sarc

Is the lowest bidder doing the repairs also?

17 enoughalready  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:14:38pm

1: Also, I should learn how to read.
2: Also to stop making bullet lists.
3: I love cookies.

18 BlueCanuck  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:14:50pm

re: #6 Nevergiveup

Chain Reaction

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I got a Chain Reaction for you.

/careful, it's addictive

19 Jack Burton  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:15:10pm

re: #6 Nevergiveup

Chain Reaction

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That was Bubble Fusion from Sonoluminescence, and likely isn't possible to release more energy than it requires to produce the reaction, if it's legitimate at all.

20 Racer X  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:15:41pm
To scientists that outcome is called “ignition,” a self-sustaining split-second of thermonuclear fusion that would - if successful - serve three vital functions:

Could also be a nifty way to toast marshmallows.

21 loup-garou  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:16:07pm

it could be cheep energy and could give every one in the the world a 22ed century life style in our life time. Al Gore will hate it.

22 Nevergiveup  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:16:28pm

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

That was Bubble Fusion from Sonoluminescence, and likely isn't possible to release more energy than it requires to produce the reaction, if it's legitimate at all.

Hey if I wanted an education......
/

23 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:16:32pm

"National Ignition Facility"?

Oh, noes, they're going to set America ON FIRE!
/h

24 opilio  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:17:09pm

re: #14 enoughalready

2: This is very cool although myon catalyzed would be infintely cooler.

Muon-catalyzed fusion would be cooler still.

25 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:17:19pm

here it comes...it's alright

26 VegasRick  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:17:21pm

re: #21 loup-garou

it could be cheep energy and could give every one in the the world a 22ed century life style in our life time. Al Gore will hate lie and say that he invented it.

FTFY.

27 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:18:01pm

re: #23 NelsFree

"National Ignition Facility"?

Oh, noes, they're going to set America ON FIRE!
/h


You know what they say- immolation is the sincerest form of flattery.

28 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:18:20pm

"Enable the keepers of America’s nuclear warheads to make sure that, after decades in storage, those elderly weapons are still “safe, secure and reliable,” as their keepers hope."

Obama won't like that. He just wants them disassembled.

29 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:18:38pm

The Saudis ain't gonna love this.

30 Nevergiveup  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:19:03pm

re: #28 NelsFree

"Enable the keepers of America’s nuclear warheads to make sure that, after decades in storage, those elderly weapons are still “safe, secure and reliable,” as their keepers hope."

Obama won't like that. He just wants them disassembled.

Maybe no one will tell him where they are?

31 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:19:11pm

re: #24 opilio

Muon-catalyzed fusion would be cooler still.

...but Moon-catalyzed fusion would be most cool!
/undoes belt

32 Nevergiveup  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:19:38pm

re: #29 HelloDare

The Saudis ain't gonna love this.

What are they gonna do? Behead it and crucify it?

33 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:19:43pm

re: #29 HelloDare

The Saudis ain't gonna love this.

I sincerely hope not....dogs

34 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:19:47pm

Allah will not allow this to happen. What would happen to his constituency?

35 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:19:55pm

re: #30 Nevergiveup

Maybe no one will tell him where they are?

Biden will leak it...

36 loup-garou  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:20:10pm

re: #26 VegasRick
HA!
i be he already has.

"truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world's oceans."
the envro Luddites will hate this. it will put them all out of work.

37 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:20:36pm

"Finally, if the coming years of experiments, which start next year, are successful, a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans."

The Environmentalists will find a reason to be against it, too.

38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:20:55pm

Lasers!

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzAP!

39 rightside  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:21:17pm

How will the democrats tax this? Fusion cap & trade?

40 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:21:38pm

re: #36 loup-garou

HA!
i be he already has.

"truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world's oceans."
the envro Luddites will hate this. it will put them all out of work.

like they wouldn't be bailed out...

41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:22:26pm

re: #37 NelsFree

(psst.)

(It's powered by puppy teeth.)

42 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:22:58pm

re: #39 rightside

How will the democrats tax this? Fusion cap & trade?

by the hydrogen foot print..

43 rightside  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:23:16pm

re: #32 Nevergiveup

Behead those who create suns.

44 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:24:08pm

If this becomes a reality, Texas won't be talking about seceding. Its economy will be in the crapper.

45 rightside  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:24:45pm

And another things, who is going to hold it up? The ov-glove just ain't gonna cut it.

46 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:24:50pm

sun king.....

47 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:25:30pm

re: #32 Nevergiveup

What are they gonna do? Behead it and crucify it?

Stone it. Stone the evil mini-sun to hell.

48 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:25:53pm

re: #44 HelloDare

If this becomes a reality, Texas won't be talking about seceding. Its economy will be in the crapper.

they can always sell wood carvings to the touristas

49 opilio  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:25:59pm

re: #37 NelsFree

"Finally, if the coming years of experiments, which start next year, are successful, a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans."

The Environmentalists will find a reason to be against it, too.

But, but,... when we split the water to get the hydrogen what will we do with all the toxic oxygen?   And when all the hydrogen in the oceans has been fused to form helium, then all the fish will die, and the planet will float off into space like a giant balloon!

//

50 Jack Burton  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:26:09pm

re: #37 NelsFree

"Finally, if the coming years of experiments, which start next year, are successful, a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans."

The Environmentalists will find a reason to be against it, too.

They wont have to look far. Fusion reactions which use deuterium and/or tritium as the fuel release neutrons. Neutrons flying away from the reaction tend to make things around it radioactive eventually.

Until they can do this with an 3He + 3He reaction chain, it will still have plenty of side effects for envirofascist luddites to scare people with.

51 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:26:23pm

Enable astrophysicists and other scientists to study for the first time what kind of matter lies inside exploding stars, as well as in the deep high-pressure interior of Earth and its sister planets.

My Cub Scouts know what's at the center of the Earth. I again relate the story of a Den meeting. "Imagine if you will being at the center of the Earth. Incredible pressure will crush you flat as a pancake! Incredible heat will incinerate you crispy! However, since you would be at the center of this huge mass, all gravity pulling in every direction, you would be weightless!"
"So, at the Center of the Earth, there is a space filling with crispy floating pancakes made out of imaginative Cub Scouts!"
After a few nervous seconds, laughter ensued.

52 VioletTiger  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:26:25pm

re: #39 rightside

How will the democrats tax this? Fusion cap & trade?


They will gind a way, you can bet!

53 Cato  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:26:48pm

A relative who is a Homeland Security agent is going for special training at that facility. The lucky bastard will be there for the test.

54 rightside  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:27:23pm

re: #46 albusteve

Lizard King.

55 Kragar  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:27:40pm

re: #53 Cato

A relative who is a Homeland Security agent is going for special training at that facility. The lucky bastard will be there for the test.

His death will be quick. The rest of us will have to wait for the shockwave.

/

56 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:28:28pm

Dr. C gives his review of the Movie Angels and Demons
A world class Scientist liked it!
Who knew?
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com...]

57 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:28:36pm

re: #53 Cato

A relative who is a Homeland Security agent is going for special training at that facility. The lucky bastard will be there for the test.

Make sure he doesn't forget to bring marshmallows.

58 Cato  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:28:54pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LOL

59 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:28:55pm

re: #57 HelloDare

Make sure he doesn't forget to bring marshmallows.

And a really long stick.

60 rightside  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:29:26pm

re: #52 VioletTiger

They tax the dead, why not?

61 Ojoe  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:29:29pm

If this fusion works, we will go back to electric baseboard heaters in homes,

but a gas range will still be better for cooking.

Gold Medallion electrical home badge, for an all electric home.

Link to article about these homes.

62 Cato  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:29:57pm

re: #57 HelloDare

Smores!

63 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:30:25pm

re: #54 rightside

Lizard King.

whoa....

64 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:30:28pm

re: #60 rightside

They turn out for every election, so might as well....

65 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:31:09pm

I just hope the mini-sun doesn't melt the polar ice cap and flood Al Gore's mansion.

66 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:31:54pm

re: #53 Cato

A relative who is a Homeland Security agent is going for special training at that facility. The lucky bastard will be there for the test.


Tell him to not look directly at it!
/h

67 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:32:39pm

re: #62 Cato

Smores!

S'moreFest at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.

68 Fenway_Nation  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:33:13pm

Another military train- this time passing through rural Georgia on Norfolk Southern.

69 Jimmah  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:33:45pm

re: #46 albusteve

70 Jimmah  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:35:06pm

Watch out for the "fusion is just as dirty as fission" wet blankets. (It isn't true btw)

71 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:35:24pm

re: #67 HelloDare

S'moreFest at Lawrence Liver S' more National Laboratory.


/I never did like Liver-more
/h

72 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:35:31pm

so if this thing works does the fed get the monoploy on electric power?

73 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:36:15pm
A truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste

Al Gore would have no reason to live.

74 davinvalkri  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:36:51pm

re: #4 poteen

Thermo-nuclear power. Al Gore will hate it.

You'd think the solar power guys would be all over this stuff. Fusion is how the sun works after all; we're just moving the power generation stateside...

75 davesax  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:36:52pm

Charles:

Weren't they trying this a Princeton for years, and then it was shut down due to lack of funding or something?

This is good news.

76 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:36:55pm

re: #73 HelloDare

Al Gore would have no reason to live.

/ sure hope it works...

77 Racer X  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:37:12pm

re: #54 rightside

Lizard King.

Got LSD?

78 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:38:01pm

re: #69 Jimmah

put me in a trance....

79 justdanny  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:38:17pm

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, A nice self contained secure looking place. Good for that.

80 DEZes  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:38:19pm

re: #73 HelloDare

Al Gore would have no reason to live.

He will still have food.

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:38:45pm

Having just been without power for a whole torturous 75 minutes, I am in favor of whatever keeps electricity abundant and cheap.

Seriously, there's an amazing amount you can't do without power, like go into my garage without raising the door. Yes, I am proudly a modern wimp.

82 kynna  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:39:07pm

One day soon it will be impossible for our "leaders" to fake environmentalism while they're lining their pockets with energy special interest $$. The success of this kind of project threatens the livelihoods of our crooks in office and their cronies. What "study" will be used to derail it?

83 solomonpanting  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:39:36pm
a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans.

Perhaps we'll realize a couple years of this energy before we all succumb to global warming.

84 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:39:56pm

re: #37 NelsFree

"Finally, if the coming years of experiments, which start next year, are successful, a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans."

The Environmentalists will find a reason to be against it, too.

It would inspire us to buy more electronic toys, which break down and then fill up the landfills.

There, already done. Not agreed with, but done.

85 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:39:57pm

re: #81 EmmmieG

Having just been without power for a whole torturous 75 minutes, I am in favor of whatever keeps electricity abundant and cheap.

Seriously, there's an amazing amount you can't do without power, like go into my garage without raising the door. Yes, I am proudly a modern wimp.

just wait...the Big One is gonna hit someday...our energy problems are greater than any foreign threat imo

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:40:36pm

re: #81 EmmmieG

How many times did you hit a light switch or try to turn something on in that hour and fifteen minutes?

87 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:40:38pm

re: #49 opilio

But, but,... when we split the water to get the hydrogen what will we do with all the toxic oxygen?   And when all the hydrogen in the oceans has been fused to form helium, then all the fish will die, and the planet will float off into space like a giant balloon!

//


Save the SeaKitties!

88 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:40:48pm

re: #82 kynna

One day soon it will be impossible for our "leaders" to fake environmentalism while they're lining their pockets with energy special interest $$. The success of this kind of project threatens the livelihoods of our crooks in office and their cronies. What "study" will be used to derail it?

astute observation...bad moon risin

89 Dan G.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:40:57pm

Helium, the next "greenhouse gas".
/

90 Jack Burton  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:41:03pm

re: #75 davesax

Charles:

Weren't they trying this a Princeton for years, and then it was shut down due to lack of funding or something?

This is good news.

LLNL is doing this: Inertial Confinement Fusion

Princeton (and most previous non "cold" fusion experiments) were doing this: Magnetic Confinement Fusion

91 justdanny  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:41:18pm

re: #77 Racer X

I seriously see Jim Morrison as the least talented 'musician, in America music history.

On the other hand, RacerX was pretty cool.

92 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:41:29pm

re: #42 brookly red

by the hydrogen foot print..

Brookly Red-
Watch out for the Di Hydrogen Monoxide - the stuff can kill you. Seriously though, Tesla and Farnsworth both came tantalizingly close. Maybe this time it will work.

-S-

93 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:41:40pm

re: #86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How many times did you hit a light switch or try to turn something on in that hour and fifteen minutes?


I lay on the couch with ice water and listened for my AC to kick on.

But I wasn't happy. Relaxed, but not happy.

94 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:42:15pm

re: #91 justdanny

I seriously see Jim Morrison as the least talented 'musician, in America music history.

On the other hand, RacerX was pretty cool.

haha!...totally agree...the whole band was just awful

95 itellu3times  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:42:28pm

re: #73 HelloDare

A truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste

Al Gore would have no reason to live.

Al Gore would be reclassified as carbon waste, if he isn't already.

But what about those endless stacks of used laser cartridges, no carbon in them?
/

96 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:42:41pm

re: #89 Dan G.

Helium, the next "greenhouse gas".
/

Watch for the Danger Signs! Before you succumb, you talk with a funny voice!
/h

97 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:43:05pm

re: #92 Dr. Shalit

Brookly Red-
Watch out for the Di Hydrogen Monoxide - the stuff can kill you. Seriously though, Tesla and Farnsworth both came tantalizingly close. Maybe this time it will work.

-S-

even if I use a brita filter?

98 davinvalkri  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:43:13pm

re: #84 EmmmieG

It would inspire us to buy more electronic toys, which break down and then fill up the landfills.

There, already done. Not agreed with, but done.

Aren't most electronic toys battery powered?

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:43:19pm

re: #93 EmmmieG

Well, hell! You could'a lied or sumthin.

100 jcm  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:43:35pm

It's bound to go badly....

101 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:43:36pm

re: #95 itellu3times

Al Gore would be reclassified as carbon waste, if he isn't already.

But what about those endless stacks of used laser cartridges, no carbon in them?
/

man, that's just cold...hahahaha!....oh the irony

102 Racer X  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:44:12pm

re: #91 justdanny

I seriously see Jim Morrison as the least talented 'musician, in America music history.

On the other hand, RacerX was pretty cool.

There was a time long ago when I was really in to The Doors. Thinking back now I'm like wtf?

103 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:44:39pm

re: #98 davinvalkri

Aren't most electronic toys battery powered?

The really expensive ones recharge from the wall (Blackberries, Iphones, Kindles...)

104 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:45:00pm

OT

Damn the chiseler Texas banks and their corrupt 19th century rules anyway. I went to a local store this afternoon and made a small purchase on my debit card. I should have checked the receipt but I didn't. When I got home, I realized that they had tagged an extra digit onto the amount and I had been debited several thousand dollars! I went back to the store, and they did a forced refund. Problem solved right? Wrong. Under Texas banking procedures, debits are posted immediately while credits and deposits are not posted until the end of the next business day. This is classic chiseling, designed to siphon off a few bucks in interest while the transaction is delayed. The legislature is, harrumph, traditionally very friendly to banking interests, for some reason I cannot fathom./
The upshot is that I have 9 friggin' dollars in my bank account until Monday night, late Monday night at that.

105 Jimmah  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:45:08pm

Starpower

Apologies for the shitty video quality/sound/performance/song, and band on this one.

106 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:46:09pm

re: #97 brookly red

even if I use a brita filter?

Brookly Red -

In a high enough concentration, or "down the wrong pipe," Yes.

-S-

107 pink freud  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:46:22pm

An interesting recap from the SCOTUS blog:

Judge Sotomayor and Race — Results from the Full Data Set

"In sum, in an eleven-year career on the Second Circuit, Judge Sotomayor has participated in roughly 100 panel decisions involving questions of race and has disagreed with her colleagues in those cases (a fair measure of whether she is an outlier) a total of 4 times. Only one case (Gant) in that entire eleven years actually involved the question whether race discrimination may have occurred. (In another case (Pappas) she dissented to favor a white bigot.) She particulated in two other panels rejecting district court rulings agreeing with race-based jury-selection claims. Given that record, it seems absurd to say that Judge Sotomayor allows race to infect her decisionmaking."

108 Van Helsing  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:46:30pm

re: #73 HelloDare

Al Gore would have no reason to live.

We can dream...

109 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:46:36pm

So, who's going to post a link to a "Star Trek" scene featuring Scotty (the Original Star Trek, by the way)?

110 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:46:48pm

re: #104 Shiplord Kirel

OT

Damn the chiseler Texas banks and their corrupt 19th century rules anyway. I went to a local store this afternoon and made a small purchase on my debit card. I should have checked the receipt but I didn't. When I got home, I realized that they had tagged an extra digit onto the amount and I had been debited several thousand dollars! I went back to the store, and they did a forced refund. Problem solved right? Wrong. Under Texas banking procedures, debits are posted immediately while credits and deposits are not posted until the end of the next business day. This is classic chiseling, designed to siphon off a few bucks in interest while the transaction is delayed. The legislature is, harrumph, traditionally very friendly to banking interests, for some reason I cannot fathom./
The upshot is that I have 9 friggin' dollars in my bank account until Monday night, late Monday night at that.

I was almost charge over 2,000 for a one pound package of hamburger. I do feel your pain, though. Maybe you could go and blow the nine dollars on...two ice cream cones?

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:47:37pm

re: #104 Shiplord Kirel

Can I borrow nine dollars?

112 Kragar  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:47:41pm

re: #109 NelsFree

So, who's going to post a link to a "Star Trek" scene featuring Scotty (the Original Star Trek, by the way)?

I'm waiting for the next movie. Rumors are they plan to reintroduce Khan for the new timeline.

113 brookly red  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:48:07pm

re: #106 Dr. Shalit

Brookly Red -

In a high enough concentration, or "down the wrong pipe," Yes.

-S-

Oh, I better go get some beer then... bbiab

114 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:48:23pm

Wow, this will really be great for Michelle's children.

115 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:48:36pm

Any chance fusion happens in our lifetimes? (because that would be way cool)

116 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:49:21pm

Kids are back from camping trip. I'll see if they survived intact.

117 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:49:26pm

re: #107 pink freud

An interesting recap from the SCOTUS blog:

Judge Sotomayor and Race — Results from the Full Data Set

"In sum, in an eleven-year career on the Second Circuit, Judge Sotomayor has participated in roughly 100 panel decisions involving questions of race and has disagreed with her colleagues in those cases (a fair measure of whether she is an outlier) a total of 4 times. Only one case (Gant) in that entire eleven years actually involved the question whether race discrimination may have occurred. (In another case (Pappas) she dissented to favor a white bigot.) She particulated in two other panels rejecting district court rulings agreeing with race-based jury-selection claims. Given that record, it seems absurd to say that Judge Sotomayor allows race to infect her decisionmaking."

fine...yet I consider 11yrs as a novice....she has bad hair too

118 Ojoe  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:50:01pm

re: #109 NelsFree

"I doan think she kin take much more, keptin!"

119 jcm  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:50:04pm

re: #115 Taqyia2Me

Any chance fusion happens in our lifetimes? (because that would be way cool)

Gotta' git rid of the watermelons first.

120 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:50:36pm

re: #105 Jimmah

Starpower

Apologies for the shitty poor abysmal video quality/sound/performance/song, and band on this one.

You SHOULD be ashamed! I only lasted 45 seconds with it.
/h

121 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:50:43pm

re: #105 Jimmah

brick

122 legalpad  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:51:40pm

re: #104 Shiplord Kirel

Some other state does it differently with national banks? You got to watch your money. Debit cards carry extra risk. I have two different banks I deal with: one that I use a debit card from and one where I keep most of the money.

123 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:52:00pm

re: #107 pink freud

She particulated

Sounds dirty.

124 Clemente  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:52:39pm

re: #104 Shiplord Kirel

OT

...

The upshot is that I have 9 friggin' dollars in my bank account until Monday night, late Monday night at that.

Yikes! I just hope you don't have any automatic debits or transfers set up for the last day, or the first, of the month!

125 Jack Burton  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:53:08pm

re: #115 Taqyia2Me

Any chance fusion happens in our lifetimes? (because that would be way cool)

They have been saying "in about 25-50 years" since the 1950s. I think that "25-50 years" is scientists version of the building contractors "2 weeks" which tends to balloon into months or simply vaporware.

126 Jimmah  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:53:13pm

re: #115 Taqyia2Me

Any chance fusion happens in our lifetimes? (because that would be way cool)

[Link: www.scienceblog.com...]

Now a new inertial confinement fusion research facility is about to come on line at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. After twelve years of construction, the National Ignition Facility (NIF) is now complete, with first operations set for June.

For its half-century history, fusion power research has always seemed to be 30-40 years from practical application. That still may be true. But NIF offers the possibility that fusion power may indeed become practical on a much shorter time scale. Just as it took little more than a decade from atomic bomb to commercial fission reactors, could it now take a comparably short period from NIF to fusion power, just when we need it most to stave off the worst consequences of global warming?

If I were a fresh Ph.D. looking for work these days, I would be eager to work at NIF.

I hope the early results are encouraging and follow-up work leads to commercialization in my lifetime.

127 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:53:22pm

re: #107 pink freud

"She particulated in two other panels rejecting district court rulings agreeing with race-based jury-selection claims. "

I hope someone cleaned up the mess...
/h

128 DEZes  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:53:49pm

re: #109 NelsFree

So, who's going to post a link to a "Star Trek" scene featuring Scotty (the Original Star Trek, by the way)?

[Link: vids.myspace.com...]

129 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:54:31pm

re: #119 jcm

Gotta' git rid of the watermelons first.

R Lee will handle it....commie watermellons

130 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:54:51pm

I'm not worried about anything going wrong.

If they lasers get too hot, they can dump some cold fusion on 'em.

131 Jimmah  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:55:16pm

re: #120 NelsFree
re: #121 albusteve

The title was really the strong point of that one.

132 Kronocide  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:56:31pm

"Cold fusion is Hot."

Paris Hilton, 2009

133 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:57:43pm

re: #131 Jimmah

re: #121 albusteve

The title was really the strong point of that one.

if you say so......bro

134 Clemente  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:58:01pm

re: #115 Taqyia2Me

Any chance fusion happens in our lifetimes? (because that would be way cool)

Sure would take the wind out of the terrorists' sails if America got in the business of building and selling the world's cheapest, cleanest energy plants, wouldn't it? Very sweet.

135 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:58:38pm

re: #128 DEZes

Oh noes! That was 'The Next Generation'! Who's next?
/h

136 Van Helsing  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:58:48pm

re: #126 Jimmah

For its half-century history, fusion power research has always seemed to be 30-40 years from practical application. That still may be true. But NIF offers the possibility that fusion power may indeed become practical on a much shorter time scale. Just as it took little more than a decade from atomic bomb to commercial fission reactors, could it now take a comparably short period from NIF to fusion power, just when we need it most to stave off the worst consequences of global warming?


They were working on the science of fission for decades before the Manhattan project. Not to make it sound simple, all they had left was the engineering of fission reactors which was fairly straightforward. A lot of material science and engineering work but no new science.

They're still working on the science side of controlled fusion and even after they get that figured out the engineering is going to be a whole lot more difficult than fission was.

137 Kragar  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:59:18pm

re: #134 Clemente

Sure would take the wind out of the terrorists' sails if America got in the business of building and selling the world's cheapest, cleanest energy plants, wouldn't it? Very sweet.

Once the Feds get a hold of it, they'll regulate and license it into something that never gets implemented

138 Clemente  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:00:45pm

*pop*

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Once the Feds get a hold of it, they'll regulate and license it into something that never gets implemented

/dang bubble-buster!

139 guftafs  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:01:13pm
Finally, if the coming years of experiments, which start next year, are successful, a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste would be created using the limitless hydrogen fuel in the world’s oceans.

Poor environmentalists. They'd have to invent something else other than 'carbon footprint' to make us feel guilty.

140 gregb  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:01:59pm

Pons and Fleischmann are rolling over in their graves--no wait, they are hanging out in France. I can't wait to see what clever arguments the gaia crowd comes up with in the face of all that carbon free energy.

141 spinmore  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:02:30pm

Way Cool !

Let us know when they hit the switch for the first test; I'm gonna hide under my blankets.

142 VegasRick  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:03:11pm

re: #140 gregb

Pons and Fleischmann are rolling over in their graves--no wait, they are hanging out in France. I can't wait to see what clever arguments the gaia crowd comes up with in the face of all that carbon free energy.

Global cooling!
/

143 HelloDare  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:03:38pm

d'uh! One obvious problem. What happens to the mini-suns at night?
/

144 Van Helsing  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:03:52pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Once the Feds get a hold of it, they'll regulate and license it into something that never gets implemented

Just like fission. The Greens watermelons commies will hang it up for decades with legal challenges.

*spit*

145 DEZes  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:04:08pm

re: #135 NelsFree

Oh noes! That was 'The Next Generation'! Who's next?
/h

I know, I just liked him wanting to see the old Enterprise. ;)
No bloody A, B, C or D. ;)

146 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:05:52pm

Actually All -

When you get down to it, the generation of electricity by coal, natural gas or nuclear of either fission or fusion flavor all amounts to which source is most practical to generate steam or something similar to spin a turbine/generator.
Effectively the technology of a teapot.

-S-

147 spinmore  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:06:04pm

Anyone following the Giro?
Any guesses for tomorrow?

148 abolitionist  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:06:49pm

In the 1980s, I got to visit a similar facility, the Laboratory for Laser Energetics at the University of Rochester, NY. Here's a short video - Spiderlab. Glass bead targets containing heavy hydrogen and held in place by spider "silk" get zapped (very briefly) by about 60 terawatts of laser light.

149 Clemente  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:07:31pm

And after all the trash-talkin' the 0 has done about every single practical (scale-wise) domestic energy resource available, one might think this could get some juice.

150 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:08:34pm

re: #145 DEZes

I know, I just liked him wanting to see the old Enterprise. ;)
No bloody A, B, C or D. ;)

Guess I'll have to do it myself...

151 DEZes  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:10:37pm

re: #150 NelsFree

Guess I'll have to do it myself...


Kirk sure liked his new body.

152 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:10:58pm

re: #147 spinmore

"Anyone following the Gyro?"
It usually spins in place.
"Any guesses for tomorrow?"
More of the same.
/h

153 spinmore  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:11:59pm

re: #152 NelsFree
Zing!

154 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:12:08pm

re: #149 Clemente

And after all the trash-talkin' the 0 has done about every single practical (scale-wise) domestic energy resource available, one might think this could get some juice.

he does not want energy...he wants restriction and Congress will hand it to him

155 wrenchwench  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:12:52pm

re: #147 spinmore

Anyone following the Giro?
Any guesses for tomorrow?

I have not been following very closely. Isn't the TT tomorrow too short to be likely change the outcome from today's GC?

156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:14:07pm

re: #143 HelloDare

You cue Corey Hart.

157 solomonpanting  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:16:27pm
a truly limitless supply of clean electrical energy with no carbon waste

"For more on this story we bring you ABC news correspondent, Maria Escalante."
"Thank you, Teresa. The potential for this exciting, new technology is almost too good to be true. Some of the more beneficial results of such an energy source are"

-clean world environments
-a break from dependence upon terror-sponsoring nations
-improved living condiditons throughout the world
-greater economic and societal benefits for poorer countries to develop, diversify and grow their economies
-a lessening of tensions among nations for energy exploration and importation
-fewer oil spills from decreased oil shipments

"And now, for an alternative point of view on the downside of this potential world-shattering news, we present the environmentalist Democrat spokesperson......"

158 Jimmah  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:16:42pm

re: #133 albusteve

if you say so......bro

So you want to knock the title as well...lol. Ok here's a beatles song for you to wash the memory of that one away.

159 spinmore  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:17:32pm

I was thinking with a TT as the final stage #1 "the Russian" and #2 "the Italian" have got to be sweatin' it going into tommorow. (?) Should be fun. How much time (if any) can Levi reclaim? Podium?

160 Jack Burton  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:17:40pm

re: #146 Dr. Shalit

Actually All -

When you get down to it, the generation of electricity by coal, natural gas or nuclear of either fission or fusion flavor all amounts to which source is most practical to generate steam or something similar to spin a turbine/generator.
Effectively the technology of a teapot.

-S-

There are methods to convert reaction energy directly to electricity in fusion. I think the reactions that produce free protons as products can turn the entire reactor into a large electric inductor. More than likely though, the first ones will be running a steam turbine, especially if they employ this type of fusion that LLNL is experimenting with.

161 spinmore  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:18:35pm

re: #155 wrenchwench
Sorry, meant to Reply (re-posted instead)

162 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:19:34pm

re: #149 Clemente

And after all the trash-talkin' the 0 has done about every single practical (scale-wise) domestic energy resource available, one might think this could get some juice.

Clemente -

Don't count on it. It is still "NUKE-YOU-LAR."

-S-

163 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:20:58pm

re: #146 Dr. Shalit

Actually All -

When you get down to it, the generation of electricity by coal, natural gas or nuclear of either fission or fusion flavor all amounts to which source is most practical to generate steam or something similar to spin a turbine/generator.
Effectively the technology of a teapot.

-S-

Direct Energy Conversion: A primer;

[Link: www.britannica.com...]

and some examples...

[Link: gcep.stanford.edu...]

[Link: web.gat.com...]

164 albusteve  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:22:12pm

re: #158 Jimmah

oh my god....you're scarin me!

165 NelsFree  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:23:04pm

Ooohh! New thread!

Bye.

166 wrenchwench  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:29:39pm

re: #159 spinmore

I was thinking with a TT as the final stage #1 "the Russian" and #2 "the Italian" have got to be sweatin' it going into tommorow. (?) Should be fun. How much time (if any) can Levi reclaim? Podium?

The TT is only 9 miles long. Levi has almost 5 minutes to make up, or 3:16 for third, and 5 riders ahead of him. Odds are pretty long for a podium finish. Would have been nice, though.

How do you think Contador and Armstrong will get along in the Tour de France?

167 Randall Gross  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:36:51pm

Color me as happy that they are researching, but skeptical of good results being achieved anytime soon. See what Atomic Rod had to say here:
[Link: atomicinsights.blogspot.com...]

This is research scientists trying to keep their meal ticket stamped, ok by me since I support fusion research - we will need it longer term, at least by next millenia. But they are being as disingenuous as some of the climate alarmist camp, and if we put the billions into building off the shelf fission plants a lot of problems go away quickly.

168 ShanghaiEd  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:41:01pm

re: #102 Racer X

There was a time long ago when I was really in to The Doors. Thinking back now I'm like wtf?

I think the Doors were an example of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Or something. There was a strange kind of wildness to Morrison that was appealing on a visceral level. They sure struck a nerve with a lot of folks, me included. Their stuff doesn't age nearly as well as some others, IMO.

169 spinmore  Sat, May 30, 2009 3:45:27pm

re: #166 wrenchwench

The TT is only 9 miles long. Levi has almost 5 minutes to make up, or 3:16 for third, and 5 riders ahead of him. Odds are pretty long for a podium finish. Would have been nice, though.

How do you think Contador and Armstrong will get along in the Tour de France?

Yes - I didn't realize the final TT was so short . . . was kinda hoping for a killer TT to shake things up (oh well).
As for the team with too many Leaders (Can't wait!) I want to see what Lance does to establish himself. He said he would ride for 'the strongest rider' . . . I'm sure he believes that 'that be he' (lol)

170 Sabnen  Sat, May 30, 2009 4:27:10pm

This sounds so . . . so . . . NIF-ty!

171 Macker  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:44:42pm

re: #4 poteen

Thermo-nuclear power. Al Gore will hate it.

So will the Islamofascists.

172 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:48:51pm

re: #168 ShanghaiEd

I think the Doors were an example of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Or something. There was a strange kind of wildness to Morrison that was appealing on a visceral level. They sure struck a nerve with a lot of folks, me included. Their stuff doesn't age nearly as well as some others, IMO.

Shanghai Ed -

Unless I am mistaken, "Light My Fire" was in the "Top 10 Hits" for two (2) years running - in 1967 by The Doors and in 1968 by Jose Feliciano - the ONLY tune with that distinction that I know of, 2 years and 2 Different Artists. Charles, If I am wrong on this one - Please Correct Me. That is all.

-S-

173 Gearhead  Sat, May 30, 2009 5:50:29pm

The holy grail of energy. And someone will still find something to protest about it.

"It's depriving individual atoms of their rights, forcing them together under extreme conditions!"

174 Timbre  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:04:08pm
It’s purpose is to focus the immense energy in an array of 120 laser beams onto a tiny glass target the size of a BB shot, which is filled with hydrogen. This is all done under immensely high pressure to make the target heat like the fiery interior of a star at a 180 million degrees Fahrenheit.

"Careful, kids, you'll shoot your eyes out."

175 Dr. Shalit  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:06:46pm

re: #173 Gearhead

The holy grail of energy. And someone will still find something to protest about it.

"It's depriving individual atoms of their rights, forcing them together under extreme conditions!"

Gearhead -

More or less - YOU GOT THE PROGRAM. Expect the foundation of the "PROTON PROTECTION PROJECT" any second now. That is all.

-S-

176 notutopia  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:52:32pm

Magic on Earth!

Stardust Nat King Cole

177 lostlakehiker  Sat, May 30, 2009 7:08:04pm

The engineering obstacles to controlled fusion are daunting. This isn't going to be showing up at the meter any time in the next 25 years. There's a very real chance that it just won't work, and another good chance that it can be done, but figuring out how and then building the machinery that will do it on an industrial scale is mind-blowingly difficult.

Still, doing cool stuff with lasers is cool, and there are applications to cool capabilities even if they aren't the application we had in mind.

178 M. Simon  Sat, May 30, 2009 9:14:56pm

Have you guys heard of Polywell Fusion? A Much Better Bet.

Bussard's IEC Fusion Technology (Polywell Fusion) Explained

Why hasn't Polywell Fusion been fully funded by the Obama administration?

179 freetoken  Sat, May 30, 2009 11:41:28pm

re: #178 M. Simon

That is the same post as you did upstairs:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Generally, I find trying to restart the same conversation lower down on the stack doesn't do much. If you want more discussion the best bet is to go to the top floor.

180 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:54:46am

No! WAIT!

www.Steorn.com
www.SwallowCommand.com

Now THESE are the cure to all of our energy needs!

/sorry couldn't resist...

181 Areozol  Sun, May 31, 2009 9:15:04am

Todays' science-fiction is tomorrow's science.

Also: check this out: Image: File:Fusion_target_implosion_on_NOVA_laser.jpg - microsun created by NOVA laser, during inertial fusion research.

And look at this: video from the inside of tokamak (here: Join European Torus), the competitor of inertial fusion: [Link: www.jet.efda.org...]

182 Stephen Macklin  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:10:41pm

And don't discount the benefit of all the helium created in the process. Think of the endless supply a balloons!

183 bruxellesblog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:59pm

re: #46 albusteve

How about this (he always reminds me of Gert Wilders too)...

Your text to link...

184 leftover54  Sun, May 31, 2009 10:40:21pm

75 davesax :

Did this have anything to do with the 'Paterson' (or was it 'Peterson' ?) Energy Cell ? I remember back around '98 this old scientist, famous for perfecting the 'ball bearing' back in the 50's (no, I'm not kidding) claimed that he had used these same ball bearings and water to come up with an energy cell - about the size of a road flare, that would power the average home forever. This thread opener has a line that says in part:
'release more energy in a trillionth of a second than it took to produce'
This has always been thought to be an impossible. This guy Patterson says he can prove that it can be done, He gave several universities what they needed to try the experiment for themselves. I followed this for years but the trail went cold around '00. Apparently his son began assembling various experts in all sorts of fields to start a company that would produce a workable product. I remember there was all sorts of speculation as to how 'big' this project would be as notable experts in business had been recruited for this start up. One guy from Greenwich Conn, got peoples curiosity going as apparently the son convinced him to leave his lucrative business and move to Florida to join the sons team - that was the last I heard of this company. It was to be privately held - much to my dismay 'cause, at the time, I wanted to get in on the ground floor. I've since forgot all about the story until reading this here. I don't know if I'm mixing up Edison and Princeton or if this was one of the schools that took Paterson up on his claim. Time to do some 'searching' (avoiding use of the name that will remain nameless here when speaking of 'searches). I wonder if this is all related ?
Now that I think of it, I saw this story originally on Ted Koppel !
Woke up at 2am and the bedroom TV was still on. As I stood using the 'john' I heard Ted describing this Patterson thing so I stayed up and listened. The next day I woke up wondering if I had dreamt it. I asked everyone I knew if they caught this show. No one knew what the hell I was talking about ! 'You say a road flare filled with BB's will power my house ? You trippin' ? LOL !
Thank G_d for the intenets because I was able to find evidence that this show did actually air ! Exciting times we live in !
"BB's, water and road flares oh my !"

'Cold fusion" and all that is supposed to be a bit different IIRC.
I'll shut up now as I forgot more than I remember about all of this.

185 Sacred Plants  Mon, Jun 1, 2009 4:07:42am

Buy Perpetuum Mobile stocks, helps science explore the national money hole!

186 TallDave  Mon, Jun 1, 2009 1:27:42pm

Laser will never be a continous power source. We need to fund Polywell and FRCs.


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