The Most Influential Conservative

US NewsNovember 2009 • Views: 7,403

The most “influential” conservative in America is a race-baiting creationist who mocks H1N1 victims, falls for obvious hoaxes, wants environmentalists to kill themselves, and panders to the Birther movement: Poll: Limbaugh is most influential conservative.

NEW YORK – By a wide margin, Americans consider Rush Limbaugh the nation’s most influential conservative voice.

Those are the results of a poll conducted by “60 Minutes” and Vanity Fair magazine and issued Sunday. The radio host was picked by 26 percent of those who responded, followed by Fox News Channel’s Glenn Beck at 11 percent. Actual politicians — former Vice President Dick Cheney and former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin — were the choice of 10 percent each.

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76 comments

Sharmuta Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:13:33pm

I would have to agree Rush is the most influential, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:16:15pm

I don't consider Rush a "conservative." His program used to be entertaining back in the day, but he completely trashed his own career after the Oxycontin caper.

brookly red Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:16:17pm

But his musical parodies are still knee-slappers.

Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:16:43pm

re: #3 brookly red

But his musical parodies are still knee-slappers.

Paul Shanklin does the musical parodies.

citybilly Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:17:13pm

is it to much to ask for Rationalist Materialist Conservative?

Charles Johnson Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:17:17pm

re: #2 Alouette

I don't consider Rush a "conservative." His program used to be entertaining back in the day, but he completely trashed his own career after the Oxycontin caper.

Actually, he didn't. He's making more money now fleecing the right wing than he ever has.

Sharmuta Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:17:22pm

re: #2 Alouette

I don't consider Rush a "conservative." His program used to be entertaining back in the day, but he completely trashed his own career after the Oxycontin caper.

The only one on that list I consider a conservative is Dick Cheney.

davinvalkri Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:18:02pm

re: #5 citybilly

is it to much to ask for Rationalist Materialist Conservative?

We want our Buckley and Goldwater back, dammit!

Big Steve Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:18:08pm

Haven't listened to him in over three years and damn proud of it!

brookly red Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:18:21pm

re: #4 Alouette

Paul Shanklin does the musical parodies.

And he is as funny as it gets... but I guess that don't count for much else.

Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:19:11pm

Well, at least it's not Ron Paul.

Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:20:04pm

He used to have many more musical parodies, and duddle-duddle-duddle-up updates! with appropriate theme music, and his Chinese and Iraqi counterparts, but he just isn't funny anymore.

Dennis Prager is on opposite Rush in my area, and I listen to Dennis more frequently than Rush, but Dennis can get very pompous from time to time.

Most of the time I don't listen to talk radio at all, when I'm in the car I put on music. Sometimes I even listen (oh the horror) to NPR.

citybilly Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:20:07pm

re: #8 davinvalkri

and Ayn Rand. a American Thacher would be nice. she was a chemist.

Vicious Babushka Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:21:46pm

re: #6 Charles

Actually, he didn't. He's making more money now fleecing the right wing than he ever has.

BTW are you still good buds with Dennis Prager? Is Dennis a creationist?

citybilly Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:21:55pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul and his fans are the one of the reason i gave up on the Libertarian Party.

Sharmuta Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:22:08pm

Beck is significantly behind Rush on this poll. I wonder if it made him cry?

Big Steve Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:23:33pm

re: #13 citybilly

and Ayn Rand. a American Thacher would be nice. she was a chemist.

Some other famous people who were/are chemists...Knute Rockne, Angela Merkel, believe it or not Jerry Buss, owner of the Lakers and finally of infamous note...Marion Berry, disgraced ex-mayor.

Charles Johnson Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:25:52pm

re: #14 Alouette

BTW are you still good buds with Dennis Prager? Is Dennis a creationist?

Yes, Dennis is a creationist. And I haven't heard from him in quite a while, which may or may not be connected.

lostlakehiker Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:26:57pm

Come back, Ronnie. We need you.

But seriously, Limbaugh won't be the nominee. Huckabee won't be the nominee. Nor Ron Paul, nor Palin. The Republicans will find someone who avoids talking about evolution or AGW, and sticks to topics such as the war, taxes, the economy, and health care.

All this, assuming we don't get another game-changing "shock" event. That's by definition a fairly safe bet, but not utterly safe.

Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:27:12pm

re: #15 citybilly

I looked into libertarianism briefly while questioning my political identity a few years back. There's nothing really wrong with it as a political philosophy but most libertarians today take it too far. Fundamentalist libertarianism is just a fantasy and wold never work in the real world.

Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:28:24pm

Ricky Gervais reads Genesis...

Youtube Video

lawhawk Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:30:15pm

It looks like Huckabee might be toast after today. It seems that a guy who's suspected of murdering four police officers today in Washington State had his sentence commuted by Huckabee despite protestations from state prosecutors.

Maurice Clemmons, the 37-year-old Tacoma man being sought for questioning in the killing of four Lakewood police officers this morning, has a long criminal record punctuated by violence, erratic behavior and concerns about his mental health.
Nine years ago, then-Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee granted clemency to Clemmons, commuting his lengthy prison sentence over the protestations of prosecutors.

"This is the day I've been dreading for a long time," Larry Jegley, prosecuting attorney for Arkansas' Pulaski County said Sunday night when informed that Clemmons was being sought in connection to the killings.

Clemmons' criminal history includes at least five felony convictions in Arkansas and at least eight felony charges in Washington. The record also stands out for the number of times he has been released from custody despite questions about the danger he posed.

There are good reasons to allow for clemency and commutation of sentences, but there are also good reasons to not do so - and this was one of those instances where Clemmons should never have been allowed out of prison. He was a serial criminal, and may be a mass murderer to boot.

Mich-again Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:32:40pm

re: #22 lawhawk

It looks like Huckabee might be toast after today.

If that story pans out then what you said is true. Huxster is done like dinner.

kobra_55 Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:33:22pm

I'm a little bit surprised it's Limbaugh. Going by what people are talking about these days you would think for sure it would be some combination of Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin being the most influential.

Sharmuta Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:33:28pm

re: #22 lawhawk

Huckabee- the Dukakis of the right.

Charles Johnson Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #22 lawhawk

I was just about to post that story. Huckabee's in big trouble.

avanti Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #22 lawhawk

It looks like Huckabee might be toast after today. It seems that a guy who's suspected of murdering four police officers today in Washington State had his sentence commuted by Huckabee despite protestations from state prosecutors.

There are good reasons to allow for clemency and commutation of sentences, but there are also good reasons to not do so - and this was one of those instances where Clemmons should never have been allowed out of prison. He was a serial criminal, and may be a mass murderer to boot.

I'll bet you a beer he was granted clemency for accepting Christ.

Mich-again Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:36:09pm

As for Limbaugh, he is at least as strong a rallying point for the left as for the right and I'm not sure what his net benefit is to conservatives. He might actually do more bad than good.

J.S. Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:38:55pm

re: #22 lawhawk

So that's why Huckabee's throwing in the towel! (was wondering about that when I saw it on CNN's ticker.) wow...

Mich-again Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:41:44pm

re: #27 avanti

I'll bet you a beer he was granted clemency for accepting Christ.

Thats an excellent point. And if true points out a dangerous mixing of Church and State. If the Huxster tied clemency to some alleged religious conversion it would be a really dangerous abuse of power. I did find this snip from an old story..

Although the Republican presidential contender and Southern Baptist preacher plays down any personal involvement in that release, Huckabee granted 1,033 pardons and commutations in his 10 years as governor of Arkansas. The acts of clemency benefited the stepson of a staff member, murderers who worked at the governor's mansion, a rock star and inmates who received good words from their pastors.
``It seems to be true at least anecdotally that if a minister is involved, (Huckabee) seems likely to grant clemency,'' prosecutor Robert Herzfeld said in 2004 after successfully battling the then-governor over the release of a killer.

prairiefire Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:42:07pm

re: #22 lawhawk

This is not the first time for Huckabee. Huck released a rapist early in his sentence who went on to rape and murder a woman in Parkville, MO. It seems he was persuaded that Bill Clinton as then Gov of Ark. had not given the rapist a fair hearing for leniency. Huckabee made the wrong decision then, and it looks like he has made another one.

Killgore Trout Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:42:36pm

re: #29 J.S.

It might not be related. I think his most recent statements were before the shooting. His career is toast now.

BARACK THE VOTE Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:42:42pm

re: #27 avanti

I'll bet you a beer he was granted clemency for accepting Christ.

Huckabee pardoned someone who went on to rape and murder others. Didn't stop his POTUS bid.

2. Huckabee Enables the Politically-Motivated Parole of Repeat Rapist/Murderer
As Murray Waas documented at the Huffington Post, Mike Huckabee might claim to be a man of God, but he acted a pure partisan operator in the parole of Wayne Dumond in Arkansas.

The expanding scandal surrounding Dumond, a convicted rapist, is not limited to Huckabee's direct personal involvement in securing his parole. Nor is Huckabee's disgrace merely compounded by his later denials that he had no way of knowing the dangers posed by Dumond, who went to rape and murder against after his release. (Waas produces extenstive documentation, including letters to Huckabee from Dumond's past victims.) Huckabee's abominable role is all the more shocking because it was done at the behest of conservative zealots like Steve Dunleavy and Guy Reel furious because Wayne Dumond's victim was a distant cousin of Bill Clinton who also happened to be the daughter of a prominent Arkansas Democrat.

Documents Expose Huckabee's Role In Serial Rapist's Release

prairiefire Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:43:40pm

re: #33 iceweasel

Thanks for all clarification!!

Ben G. Hazi Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:46:35pm

re: #30 Mich-again

Ruh-roh...

Seriously, if Huckabee was pardoning inmates primarily on the testimony of religious folks that had been counseling the inmate, while discounting the inmates' rap sheets and warnings from prosecutors, his future political ambitions should be stomped on and ground into a fine powder.

/Huckabee has totally showed his ass here...

acwgusa Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:46:57pm

re: #27 avanti

I'll bet you a beer he was granted clemency for accepting Christ.

Bah. My idea of clemency for accepting Christ for the scum the Huckster let go would involve sending said scum off to meet Christ immediately as part of the commutation. But then, I'm not a nice person when it comes to scum.

Sharmuta Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:46:58pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

That was pretty funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Hawkins Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:46:58pm

Mr. Limbaugh gives me a stomach ache. He's so full of bile that it gives me a sort of sympathetic erosion of my stomach lining.

Ugh.

acwgusa Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:48:22pm

re: #35 talon_262

Ruh-roh...

Seriously, if Huckabee was pardoning inmates primarily on the testimony of religious folks that had been counseling the inmate, while discounting the inmates' rap sheets and warnings from prosecutors, his future political ambitions should be stomped on and ground into a fine powder.

/Huckabee has totally showed his ass here...

The Huckster became a Dem?

Cato the Elder Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:50:16pm

Yes, well. There's a strange parallelism here between The Narrative as told by Limbaugh and The Narrative as told by Osama bin Ladin.

In each, the True Believers are the victims.

prairiefire Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:50:19pm

re: #39 acwgusa

Down ding for implication that Dems are support Rapists & Killers

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:51:38pm

I am happy to say, that all I know about Rush is what I have learned from LGF'rs. I am so VERY disappointed in the politicians we have, today. A fricking talk show radio host is "the most influential conservative"?

Ayeless in Ghazi Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:52:20pm

Another corker from Pat Condell : 'Aggressive atheism'

Youtube Video

prairiefire Sun, Nov 29, 2009 6:59:30pm

re: #30 Mich-again

I want to see Huckabee questioned about this on Fox news. I am Sick of the cocoon the right wingers have spun for themselves. Disgusting!

acwgusa Sun, Nov 29, 2009 7:00:46pm

re: #41 prairiefire

re: #39 acwgusa

Down ding for implication that Dems are support Rapists & Killers

Yeah, I blew that post. That wasn't what I intended at all. I was trying to equate the Huckster to the jackass that he is, and failed.

prairiefire Sun, Nov 29, 2009 7:07:24pm

re: #45 acwgusa

A jackass as in a Dem? I'm sorry, I am not usually argumentative, but I have had it with old libels against myself and my family.

Boogberg Sun, Nov 29, 2009 7:09:03pm

I like Charles Krauthammer. He seems intelligent and measured in his opinions.

joest1973 Sun, Nov 29, 2009 7:18:39pm

Krauthammer is a genius. I love how the liberal biased media goes story fishing with these kind of polls. I wonder if they did the same poll about the democrats in 2004-2005?

acwgusa Sun, Nov 29, 2009 7:22:36pm

re: #46 prairiefire

A jackass as in a Dem? I'm sorry, I am not usually argumentative, but I have had it with old libels against myself and my family.

As in the Donkey, the symbol of the Democratic party, not the Democrats themselves.

prairiefire Sun, Nov 29, 2009 7:27:23pm

re: #49 acwgusa

ohhh, ok.

Kruk Sun, Nov 29, 2009 8:47:21pm

This is sad, but not surprising. People like Limbaugh and Rush can break any Republican in the primaries, so naturally anyone who wants to be selected has to conform. And once they are selected, there is very little chance of pivoting to the centre without being branded RINOs.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Nov 29, 2009 8:58:56pm

Guys, guys. Rush is a victim of the establishment. He was just standing on the corner, minding his own business, when suddenly a bunch of feds came along and stuffed his pockets full of scrips signed by several different doctors. Rush was never a drug abuser. It's completely coincidental that he suffered nerve damage that just coincidentally happens to be known as a side-effect of chronic abuse of the prescription meds that he's just coincidentally accused of illegally obtaining.

Like evolution, and black holes**, this is all just another liberal conspiracy.

cringe
** : "There's a broader point here. Why the big push for black holes by liberals, and big protests against any objection to them? If it turned out empirically that promoting black holes tends to cause people to read the Bible less, would you still push this so much? Certainly there is no practical justification to pushing black holes; no one will ever be helped by them in any way.--Andy Schlafly 12:03, 13 November 2009 EST"

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Nov 29, 2009 9:05:00pm

on the other hand:

Limbaugh seems to have no such similarly popular Youtube presence:

Youtube Video

WaveriderCA Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:21:59am

A lot of this seems to be more of a power vacuum inside of the GOP instead of a rise to power of Rush. If we take a look at the frontrunners like Romney and Huckabee it really is not a pretty sight. The GOP does not have an articulate candidate with decent ideas to push their platform forward I was a few sheets to the wind on cheap whiskey and I still couldn't watch Huckabee's television show.

People in general aren't opposed to new ideas on the table, but I think many of them are scared by the push of government trying to take more by expanding and spending while others are cutting back. Looking at the dems gives us bills that are passed on weekends with half day time tables for reading 2000+ pages and appropriating 1+ trillion dollars per bill. Rush speaks to many of the fears of people in America who are legitimate in their fear. Am I saying that Rush is right? Not at all. What I am saying though is that many people, including myself, are simply scared by how out of touch both republicans and democrats are with whats going on and how what they're doing is perceived.

Neuron Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:20:19am

re: #18 Charles

Charles, with all do respect to the gentleman (person) who claims Dennis is a creationist, Dennis is NOT a creationist. Jews do not subscribe to creationism.
He does defend their right to hold the theory and believes they do not pose any threat to society.
He has said many times that as a Jew he has faith in God's existence but everything else we (Jews) try to prove. That means science.

keloyd Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:26:12am

We do ourselves a disservice when we are sloppy or exaggerate about someone even like Rush. If we object when the HuffPo, creationists, or Keith Olbermann is sloppy, then we should hold ourselves to as high a standard.

Rush NEVER stated that environmentalists should kill themselves. I was listening to the radio when rush used a bit of rhetorical flourish on the way to a commercial break that is cited above. Its meaning in the original context is obvious. It is part of the medium of talk radio that the host paints with a broad rhetorical brush. When a comedian says like Lisa Lampinelli says "you should kill yourself," its meaning is different than what those words literally mean. Same for Rush...come to think of it, I've never seen those two people in the same place at the same time...hmmm

keloyd Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:52:18am

Neuron, Charles, 55, 18 -

I did a little poking around of DennisPrager.com re creationism. He seems so rational on other things that I did not want to believe you. I found:
1. He seems to avoid this issue (I am guessing it would divide, and reduce the total numbers, of his audience),
2. He has stated on several occasions that Man was created in the image of the Almighty, (and I will add this is necessary but not sufficient to earn the title of creationist)
3. He believes the universe is much older than 6000 years. He was incredulous that an anti-religion, anti-hard-right-wing author Chris Hedges stated that the US National Parks service was selling creationist books at our national parks, and that park rangers are not allowed to state the age of the Grand Canyon. Dennis said he would look into it. No later links on his site confirm or deny the guest's assertion.

I would like more evidence that Prager is a creationist, mostly because I actually LIKE Prager.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:07:52am

Sorry, folks, but you are wrong. I've heard Dennis Prager interviewing the shill for ID, Michael Behe, on his show, and he was absolutely on Behe's side -- he even got angry and started yelling at a caller who tried to point out that ID is creationism in a cheap suit.

Please note: I don't say these things just off the top of my head. I would not have said Dennis Prager is a creationist unless I knew it to be true.

And yes, if you believe in "intelligent design," you're a creationist.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:10:32am

re: #56 keloyd

We do ourselves a disservice when we are sloppy or exaggerate about someone even like Rush. If we object when the HuffPo, creationists, or Keith Olbermann is sloppy, then we should hold ourselves to as high a standard.

Rush NEVER stated that environmentalists should kill themselves.

I'm continually amazed at the kinds of things people will try to spin.

Rush Limbaugh absolutely did suggest that environmentalist Andrew Revkin should kill himself, and if you think that kind of thing is a joke, you're nuts. Here's the quote:

The environmentalist wackos are the same way. This guy from The New York Times, if he really thinks that humanity is destroying the planet, humanity is destroying the climate, that human beings in their natural existence are going to cause the extinction of life on Earth — Andrew Revkin. Mr. Revkin, why don’t you just go kill yourself and help the planet by dying?

Indisputably, he told Revkin to kill himself.

iceman1960 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:05am

re: #59 Charles

Indisputably, he told Revkin to kill himself.

It's pretty obvious to me that Rush was making fun of the liberal concept that man is to blame for the coming extinction of man so why not do what is needed to do and kill yourself since you're are man and you are the problem.
Maybe Rush needed a sarc tag.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:38:14am

re: #60 iceman1960

It's pretty obvious to me that Rush was making fun of the liberal concept that man is to blame for the coming extinction of man so why not do what is needed to do and kill yourself since you're are man and you are the problem.
Maybe Rush needed a sarc tag.

Oh yeah, it's just hilarious to tell people to go kill themselves in an angry tone of voice. Now that's humor!

iceman1960 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:11:48pm

Sorry Charles I respectfully disagree.
I heard the whole episode. He didn't sound angry to me. He sounded like he was poking fun at the notion that if the final conclusion is that we are killing ourselves why not go ahead and get it over with.
That's all.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:13:52pm

re: #62 iceman1960

Sorry Charles I respectfully disagree.
I heard the whole episode. He didn't sound angry to me. He sounded like he was poking fun at the notion that if the final conclusion is that we are killing ourselves why not go ahead and get it over with.
That's all.

Nonsense. He was absolutely raging about this, and even compared environmentalists to jihadis. There was nothing funny about this at all. Here's the recording.

FLV Video

iceman1960 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:23:37pm

So he likes pulling the chains of radical environmentallists. I tend to think groups like ELF setting buildings and car lots on fire for the sake of their philosophies are a lot like jihadists trying to force their beliefs on others.
They are trying to force a system of belief on us almost like religious zealots.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:53:14pm

re: #64 iceman1960

So he likes pulling the chains of radical environmentallists. I tend to think groups like ELF setting buildings and car lots on fire for the sake of their philosophies are a lot like jihadists trying to force their beliefs on others.
They are trying to force a system of belief on us almost like religious zealots.

Oh, good grief.

Andrew Revkin is about as far from a "radical environmentalist" as it's possible to get. And while I agree that the ELF uses terrorist tactics, the fact is that they are an absolutely TINY way-out-on-the-fringe group, with no support whatsoever from mainstream environmentalists. And Limbaugh was NOT talking about the ELF, he was talking about mainstream environmentalists.

I notice you've moved the goalposts now. Previously, it was "Rush was kidding! It's a joke!" Now it's "He's pulling their chains!"

It was not a joke, it was hate speech. If you tell someone in real life to go kill themselves, you're likely to get a punch in the nose. Limbaugh does this on his radio show all the time, and the excuse that he's "joking" is beyond ludicrous at this point.

Alan K. Henderson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:16:09pm

H1N1: I just watched the MediaMatters H1N1 vid. Where's the controversy? Rush was mocking the overestimation of child H1N1 victims, not the victims themselves.

Isn't there a Simpson's character that reflexively shouts "But what about the children" whenever the townfolks are discussing some big issue that may or may not have to do with children?

On Revkin: what iceman1960 said in #60.

On the Obama thesis: Charles, weren't you initially fooled by fake Rush quotes? And didn't it take you longer than an hour to backtrack?

And shouldn't the falsity of the James Earl Ray quote have been obvious - far more obvious than the Jumping in Pools spoof? (It was a parody, not a hoax. Even Joe Klein agrees on that.)

Ledeen should have fact-checked the spoof (and noticed the "satire" tag). Rush should have read the source and not just Ledeen.

For the record, Rush did not defend Ledeen's error. He did say that the spoof was good satire; I agree with his general point that it contains an element of truth (O's political attitudes), but I think it was too wonky and not outlandish enough to merit a grade higher than a C-.

On creationism: Rush is a non-scientist like most of us. Whichever side of the debate is correct, why should you assume that Rush has available all the relevant data on an exceedingly complex question any more than he can figure out game theory or quantum physics?

On the birth certificate: Does this (October 23, 2008 broadcast) sound like pandering to birthers?

I don't know, let's say for example that somebody does come up with proof that something's screwy with his birth certificate and something's screwy about the fact that he's allegedly a natural citizen, American citizen, but may not be, dual citizenship, born in Kenya, who knows, there's all kinds of stuff out -- so what? What's going to happen this late in the campaign? Do you think if it's proven that they're going to dump him? That's not going to happen. But still, these are just questions that I have. And, look, both of my parents have died. When I was told the end was near, bam, I got there, fast as I could. I didn't announce to the audience, "I just got word my father is said to be passing away and in four or five days I'm going to go to Missouri. In the meantime, I will not leave you here on this radio program." These are just natural questions. I think any inquisitive reporter -- I know the risk I'm running here by raising all this. But I wouldn't be me if I didn't do that.

I sounds to me like a) he hadn't figured out the birther claims yet, and b) he didn't think that proof of foreign birth would affect O's campaign anyway. He also implies that we should be saying "your papers, please" to politicians as often as they say it to us.

But, but, what about that joke? "What do God and Obama have in common? Neither have a birth certificate." IT'S FUNNY! You don't have to be a birther to find the humor.

On the whole birther thing...I think that a lot of it is fueled by the general public ignorance about Certificates of Live Birth. Best way to get people to understand is to explain that the CoLB is like a college transcript - not an original document, but legal evidence that the bearer is "in the system."

I'm told by someone who occasionally has lunch with Stanley Kurtz's barber that Obama does have a genuine birth certificate proving American birth, but that he's hiding it cuz he doesn't want anyone to know that he was born in one of those extra seven states.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:32:12pm

re: #66 Alan K. Henderson

On the Obama thesis: Charles, weren't you initially fooled by fake Rush quotes? And didn't it take you longer than an hour to backtrack?

And isn't it you who continues to blatantly ignore the dozens of verified, sourced racist statements made by Rush Limbaugh? Telling a black caller to "take that bone out of your nose?"

All that's fine with you, obviously.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:35:32pm

re: #66 Alan K. Henderson

On the birth certificate: Does this (October 23, 2008 broadcast) sound like pandering to birthers?

Does this sound like pandering to Birthers to you? (I'm guessing you'll try to make excuses for this one too.)

“Barack Obama has yet to have to prove that he’s a citizen. All he has to do is show a birth certificate. He has yet to have to prove he’s a citizen. I have to show them 14 different ways where the hell I am every day of the year for three years.”

Lee Coller Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:10:00pm

re: #66 Alan K. Henderson

On the birth certificate: Does this (October 23, 2008 broadcast) sound like pandering to birthers?

Since you asked, it sure sounds like he's pandering to me.

keloyd Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:29:55pm

I suspect that Rush realizes that the birther thing is nonsense. He is business-minded and amoral enough to realize he wants birthers to keep listening to his show. He never clearly states anything, but the implications will hit a birther's ear and make him feel like Rush secretly supports The Cause. Meanwhile, the rest of us just let it go; it's just Rush being Rush. Everyone hears what they want, which is part of how Rush keeps his audience, that and every 4th NPR guest being too boring to keep from channel surfing.

Charles - I am guessing you don't spend much time listening to really harsh shock comedians like Lisa "You should kill yourself" Lampanelli. Rush's 3/4 angry 1/4 comedic tone is very close to some of these other angry misfit comedians. Are you something like an engineer in real life? You are too literal. I really want you to come around on this because I'm too lazy to make my own center-right blog, and photos of where I live are less interesting. It's like trying to explain nuance to that Bones scientist lady from that show on Fox.

Alan K. Henderson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:26:49pm

I'll check out the list and try to find the unlinked quote.

You're getting all your material from MediaMatters?!?!?!? Do you ever fact-check them against Rush's own transcripts to check against selective journalism and to separate MM'sw editorializing from fact?

I already addressed the “favorite sport of gangs” quote in an earlier thread. I recall it wasn't racist (or even anti-basketballish) in the least. It was about that midnight basketball nonsense. MM's own transcript vindicates him:

OK, a 1 cent sales tax to fight gang violence. What do you spend the money on to fight gang violence? Afterschool program -- don't we already have afterschool programs? Don't we already have -- what do you call it, extracurricular events? Midnight basketball -- I mean, we've done it all. We've taken the favorite sport of gangs, and we put it at midnight to get them on the basketball court. We had 100,000 new cops with Clinton -- we've done it all. And the problem still is out of control. Liberalism doesn't work.

Media Matters Video

Ah, memory returns. Rush is criticizing approaches to crime control. Cop surge without a strategy is one of those plans. Opening urban basketball courts at midnight is another. (Note sure what the lefties were trying to accomplish.) Who would be most likely to access those courts at midnight? Gangs, thinks Rush. Why does he think it's their favorite participatory sport? Because gangs are almost all urban; in that setting you see far more basketball courts than softball diamonds or putting greens

(Yeah, I listened to Bill Cosby's shtick about urban football, but I haven't heard about anyone actually try it. Using mass transit to fan out wide receivers is a neat trick.)

I don't see a racial component, unless you assume that any talk of gangs is necessarily racial. But that's prejudice.

How come Dittoheads don't think Rush is racist? They hear the Rush who says race shouldn't matter in politics and everyday getting along with folks, who criticizes the Left for being race-obsessed and for dragging race into issues where it is irrelevant, who gets called "racist" for criticizing racists. Maybe you should talk to dittoheads more often, Charles.

Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:51:35pm

re: #71 Alan K. Henderson

You're getting all your material from MediaMatters?!?!?!? Do you ever fact-check them against Rush's own transcripts to check against selective journalism and to separate MM'sw editorializing from fact?

It's a RECORDING of Rush Limbaugh's radio show. Are you going to try to claim they faked it? Good freaking grief.

And no, I don't get "all" my material from Media Matters. What crap. This is really getting stupid.

Alan K. Henderson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:15:18pm

re: #68 Charles

Does this sound like pandering to Birthers to you? (I'm guessing you'll try to make excuses for this one too.)

“Barack Obama has yet to have to prove that he’s a citizen. All he has to do is show a birth certificate. He has yet to have to prove he’s a citizen. I have to show them 14 different ways where the hell I am every day of the year for three years.”

NYC and New York State bureaucracies had hounded Rush for all sorts of paperwork proving that he really isn't a NY resident any more (and thus off their tax rolls), that he's been a Floridian for years. Rush implies that Obama's birth proof is a lot simpler than Rush's, that a single universally-accepted trump card can be played that leaves no doubt.

Unfortunately, WND doesn't have surrounding context to qualify the statement "He has yet to have to prove he’s a citizen." Does Rush imply that he doesn't believe Obama is a citizen? It doesn't fit with Limbaugh's lack of attention to the meme, or the pride he holds in his politically incorrect positions.It's more likely that he means "prove" in the same context that Rush has to prove stuff. (Rush certainly doesn't doubt his own FL citizenship.)

Alan K. Henderson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:20:12pm

re: #72 Charles

And no, I don't get "all" my material from Media Matters. What crap. This is really getting stupid.

Okay, I shouldn't have said "all" - you did cite WND, after all.

Recordings, just like partial transcripts, are not immune from selective journalism. I vaguely recall a MM recording that stopped before a vital part of the news story in question came into play. I think it was a Limbaugh piece - my recent visits to them have been via this place.

Alan K. Henderson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:51:13pm

Relying on MediaMatters as a major Limbaugh source is pretty sloppy. Especially for someone who shows little evidence of having actually listened to the guy for a significant time.

On Powell...I've been mystified why an Army general would endorse a guy who implemented school curricula drafted by the founder of the organization that once tried to blow up Fort Dix.

I don't need to turn to MediaMatters or Rush transcripts for that. I've heard these remarks. Rush does believe race influenced Powell's endorsement. It's not irrational (and thus not racist) to suspect such a thing - if he ever discussed specific issues it was on the Sunday talk shows and not in whatever forum Huffpo reported - but to state with certainty without a Certificate of Vulcan Mind Meld is another matter. There's a difference between "strongly believe" and "proven."

I regarded the Powell endorsement as meaningless solely because he didn't qualify it with anything in his field of expertise.

Decatur Deb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:55:32pm

re: #19 lostlakehiker

Come back, Ronnie. We need you.

(snip)

See today's "Onion".

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