Texas School Board Chairwoman Nominates Creationists to Science Panel

Creationists competing for the huge Texas schoolbook market
Wingnuts • Views: 38,130

The religious fanatics on the Texas State Board of Education are gearing up for another fundamentalist hoedown, as Chairwoman Gail Lowe tries to stack the panel that will review the state’s science curriculum with creationist loons.

Lowe has nominated more potential panelists than any other board member. And a number of Lowe’s nominees have publicly supported teaching “intelligent design”/creationist arguments in science classrooms.

Among them:

  • Pierre G. Velasquez, a teacher at Cornerstone Christian School in San Antonio, who testified before the state board during the 2009 science curriculum debate, urging that science students be taught creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution
  • Richard White, occupation unknown, who also testified in 2009 in support of teaching students creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution
  • Cherry A. Moore, a “consultant” who testified in 2009 in support of teaching creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution
  • Daniel Romo, a Texas A&M University chemistry professor who is listed as a “Darwin Doubter” on a creationist website.
  • Walter L. Bradley, a professor of engineering at Baylor University, believes that there is scientific evidence for the existence of God and a “designed universe.” A 1993 article Bradley co-wrote for The American Biology Teacher journal, “Origins of Life & Evolution in Biology Textbooks — A Critique,” suggests that students in science classrooms should learn about supernatural explanations.

If Lowe wants to persuade senators that she won’t turn the adoption of science instructional materials into another “culture war” battle in her anti-science crusade, she’ll clearly have to try a lot harder.

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117 comments
1 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:43:25pm

A creationist thread, yippee!!

I was just praying for one.

2 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:45:38pm
3 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:46:42pm

Sorry. Bronze age mythology has no place in a science class.

4 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:47:41pm

Insert your own “everything is bigger in Texas” joke.

5 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:48:54pm

LOL!

creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution


It’s going to prove to be stronger than your faith.

6 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:49:36pm

re: #1 b_sharp

A creationist thread, yippee!!

I was just praying for one.

Gotta get my kid involved here on these!

She’s becoming more and more aware of things happening, politically, at a state level here, and has become aware of local attempts to insert creationism in school curricula, and is dead set against it! This is a kid with a Catholic school education including 12 years of religion class - plus 12 years of actual science, science classes. She gets it.

7 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:49:52pm

re: #4 jamesfirecat

Insert your own “everything is bigger in Texas” joke.

Except the brains of the schoolboards!

8 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:50:00pm

It’s not a Creationism thread without the Romanian girl’s new stuff:

How To Be a Good Creationist - In 5 Easy Steps

9 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:50:23pm

re: #2 Lidane

In related news:

China set to overtake US in scientific research output

That’s been coming for a while.

10 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:51:55pm

The good people in Texas are just trying to make sure that America’s school children are not the first to die in any natural disaster.
/

11 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:52:16pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Gotta get my kid involved here on these!

She’s becoming more and more aware of things happening, politically, at a state level here, and has become aware of local attempts to insert creationism in school curricula, and is dead set against it! This is a kid with a Catholic school education including 12 years of religion class - plus 12 years of actual science, science classes. She gets it.

Get her on here. We need young minds.

Well brains really.

With fava beans.

12 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:52:52pm

re: #9 b_sharp

That’s been coming for a while.

True. And it’s only going to get worse the longer all these religious fanatics insist on denying science and reality.

13 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:52:56pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Gotta get my kid involved here on these!

She’s becoming more and more aware of things happening, politically, at a state level here, and has become aware of local attempts to insert creationism in school curricula, and is dead set against it! This is a kid with a Catholic school education including 12 years of religion class - plus 12 years of actual science, science classes. She gets it.

Well, I’m going to assume that is, at least in part, because the Catholic Church actually embraces the theory of evolution, unlike a lot of other Christian groups in the U.S.

14 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:53:19pm

You know. It’s hard to type with my palm on my face. I’m afraid it’s terminal.

15 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:53:32pm

Isn’t packing a science panel full of creationists a bit like consulting Big Oil CEOs on national energy policy?

16 BishopX  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:53:57pm

re: #11 b_sharp

I thought fava beans went with liver?

17 Simply Sarah  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:54:06pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Isn’t packing a science panel full of creationists a bit like consulting Big Oil CEOs on national energy policy?

So…what’s the problem?
/

18 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:54:12pm

I don’t want to sanction willful stupidity as a National Sport. I want to keep it here in Texas. Here in Austin, we are Liberal and well armed. We’ll hold our own.

19 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:54:29pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Isn’t packing a science panel full of creationists a bit like consulting Big Oil CEOs on national energy policy?

In way it’s probably worse. At least the CEOs know something about energy.

20 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:55:49pm

re: #18 austin_blue

Here in Austin, we are Liberal and well armed. We’ll hold our own.

A lot of people forget that bit. There might be a lot of liberals around here, but they own guns too. Heh.

21 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:56:00pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Isn’t packing a science panel full of creationists a bit like consulting Big Oil CEOs on national energy policy?

More like staffing a hospital with nothing but Christian Science practitioners.

22 Skeetghazi  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:57:30pm

BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo’s Cobra

At Planet Rose in the East Village to get my karaoke on. Gonna sing some “White Snake.” #snakeonthetown #likeadrifteriwasborntowalkalone

23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:57:48pm

re: #18 austin_blue

I don’t want to sanction willful stupidity as a National Sport. I want to keep it here in Texas. Here in Austin, we are Liberal and well armed. We’ll hold our own.

Unpossible. Anyone with half a brain knows that libruls are allergic to guns and self defense. Moran!
/derp derp

24 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:58:41pm

re: #21 negativ

More like staffing a hospital with nothing but Christian Science practitioners.

Or appointing Scientologists to a board of psychology.

25 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:58:57pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Isn’t packing a science panel full of creationists a bit like consulting Big Oil CEOs on national energy policy?

OK, I think I have one. It would be like packing an energy policy commission with something like a telekineticist. Magical energy created from nothing! Just a lot of eye squinting and chanting of “glommmmm!”

//

26 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:59:38pm

re: #24 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Or appointing Scientologists to a board of psychology.

I don’t need a radio operator anymore. I got myself some private with ESP!

//

27 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:01:56pm

re: #8 Decatur Deb

It’s not a Creationism thread without the Romanian girl’s new stuff:

How To Be a Good Creationist - In 5 Easy Steps

[Video]

Sweet baby jeebus she’s cute. And smart. If only I was 25 again…

28 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:02:26pm

re: #24 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Or appointing Scientologists to a board of psychology.

Or appointing people who swear by homeopathy to the American Medical Association.

29 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:02:46pm

re: #25 Gus 802

OK, I think I have one. It would be like packing an energy policy commission with something like a telekineticist. Magical energy created from nothing! Just a lot of eye squinting and chanting of “glommm!”

//

Pyramid power!

30 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:03:14pm

re: #2 Lidane

In related news:

China set to overtake US in scientific research output

China’s charting a course to the 21st century, while we’re sinking ourselves back to the Dark Ages.

Maybe this is a backdoor way of killing public schools for good in favor of private ones, by polluting the public school system with so much bullshit, that parents simply refuse to send their kids anymore for fear that they’re actually losing IQ points.

31 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:04:04pm

re: #28 Lidane

Or appointing people who swear by homeopathy to the American Medical Association.

Touch therapy!

32 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:04:41pm

I’m a mentalist. Everytime I read the creationist news coming from Texas I go mental.

//

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:06:02pm

The oft maligned PZ Myers…

[O]nce you recognize the fallacies behind creationism, you also realize that creationism’s promoters are not simply deluded folk — they are monsters of malice who are intentionally trying to undermine science education because it conflicts with their religious values, and they are perfectly willing to lie and slander to achieve their goals.

And as the Wedge Document illustrates, the goal is to coercivelly convert this nation’s children into accepting their twisted dogma in order to gain power and wealth.

34 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:06:29pm

re: #30 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

China’s charting a course to the 21st century, while we’re sinking ourselves back to the Dark Ages.

Maybe this is a backdoor way of killing public schools for good in favor of private ones, by polluting the public school system with so much bullshit, that parents simply refuse to send their kids anymore for fear that they’re actually losing IQ points.

Meanwhile, with unemployment and downward pressure on wages, nobody who isn’t already sending their kids to a private school will be able to afford it. Once OSHA is disbanded, kids unable to go to school will be able to get lucrative jobs down at the local coal mine.

35 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:07:17pm

re: #31 Gus 802

You stay outta my pr0n collection, damnit!

36 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:07:44pm

re: #35 Slumbering Behemoth

You stay outta my pr0n collection, damnit!

I’m a musician. I play the flute.

//

37 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:08:03pm

re: #34 negativ

Meanwhile, with unemployment and downward pressure on wages, nobody who isn’t already sending their kids to a private school will be able to afford it. Once OSHA is disbanded, kids unable to go to school will be able to get lucrative jobs down at the local coal mine.

It’ll do them some good! They’ll be learning a trade! And nobody ever died from a little honest work! *Coughs a few time* I mean, it’s not like coal mines collapse anymore…right?

38 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:08:51pm

re: #30 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

China’s charting a course to the 21st century, while we’re sinking ourselves back to the Dark Ages.

Maybe this is a backdoor way of killing public schools for good in favor of private ones, by polluting the public school system with so much bullshit, that parents simply refuse to send their kids anymore for fear that they’re actually losing IQ points.

And the R’s are saying funding Public Schools is throwing money at an unsolvable problem.

Seems to be working in China!

(What’s this about American Exceptionalism? Really? Really? Not if you don’t fund it, you sack of reeking assholes.)

39 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:10:01pm

re: #31 Gus 802

Touch therapy!

40 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:12:41pm

This makes a lot of sense, since so many of these faith leaders are Dr’s and PhD’s….

41 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:16:32pm

re: #40 BigPapa

This makes a lot of sense, since so many of these faith leaders are Dr’s and PhD’s…

Snake handlers

42 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:16:36pm

Just a copy and past of the creationist in question:

• Pierre G. Velasquez, a teacher at Cornerstone Christian School in San Antonio, who testified before the state board during the 2009 science curriculum debate, urging that science students be taught creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution.

• Richard White, occupation unknown, who also testified in 2009 in support of teaching students creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution.

• Cherry A. Moore, a “consultant” who testified in 2009 in support of teaching creationist-fabricated “weaknesses” of evolution.

• Daniel Romo, a Texas A&M University chemistry professor who is listed as a “Darwin Doubter” on a creationist website.

• Walter L. Bradley, a professor of engineering at Baylor University, believes that there is scientific evidence for the existence of God and a “designed universe.” A 1993 article Bradley co-wrote for The American Biology Teacher journal, “Origins of Life & Evolution in Biology Textbooks — A Critique,” suggests that students in science classrooms should learn about supernatural explanations.

What years is it again? Oh that’s right, it’s 2011. For a minute there I thought I was back in 1511.

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:17:29pm

re: #38 austin_blue

They’ve got a deal worked out with China, and we’re gonna trade places.

They’ll get to be the ones who be at the educational/technological/economical forefront from now on, while we get to be the ones that are under educated and working in sweat shops for pennies a day making all the cheap crap they buy.
/

44 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:23:59pm

“I have serious problems with fundamentalist Christians and their creationist theories. Although I believe that scripture is divinely inspired and infallible, I have a hard time going along with the belief that the whole creation process occurred in six twenty-four hour days. My skepticism is due, in part, to the fact that the Bible says that the sun wasn’t created until the fourth day of creation (Genesis 1:16-19). I have a hard time figuring how twenty-four hour days could have been measured before that.”
-Tony Campolo

45 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:24:35pm

Evening lizards!

46 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:25:26pm

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth

Just be patient, they are trying!

”If we took away the minimum wage — if conceivably it was gone — we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.”
~Michele Bachmann

47 Girth  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:25:31pm

re: #42 Gus 802

A 1993 article Bradley co-wrote for The American Biology Teacher journal, “Origins of Life & Evolution in Biology Textbooks — A Critique,” suggests that students in science classrooms should learn about supernatural explanations.

Does he teach his engineering students to account for supernatural forces in their designs? Un-fucking-believable.

Science. Supernatural forces. These are absolutely 100% mutually exclusive subjects.

48 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:27:04pm

re: #46 Cankles McCellulite

Just be patient, they are trying!

Yeah, we’ll just offer them the jobs that we’re already giving to the illegals.

/

49 Girth  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:27:45pm

re: #46 Cankles McCellulite

Just be patient, they are trying!

Ooo…ooo…can we get rid of anti-trust laws too while we’re at it? Then we can go all the way back to the 1890s.

50 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:29:31pm

re: #48 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like presidency of the USA!

////

51 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:30:13pm

Hey, maybe we’re not screwed after all.

/Nah, we’re probably pretty screwed.

52 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:30:22pm

In 1978, beset by protests, the president of the Mormons announced that God had changed his mind about black people.

53 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:30:31pm

re: #47 Girth

Does he teach his engineering students to account for supernatural forces in their designs? Un-fucking-believable.

Science. Supernatural forces. These are absolutely 100% mutually exclusive subjects.

Do you think that includes Shamanism or Voodoo? Better yet, how about witchcraft or Satanism. Not likely. It would the WASP version of supernaturalism. Now that I think about it though maybe we should press for the teaching Satanism as it applies to science.

54 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:30:58pm

re: #49 Girth

Farther i say! I will not be satisfied until male hosiery finally comes back!

55 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:31:37pm

If we took away the minimum wage

and just think of how great it would be if we brought back serfdom!!! wow!!!

56 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:32:27pm

re: #55 engineer dog


I have always wanted to be a wet nurse!

57 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:32:32pm

re: #44 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Tony is on the right track. If he continues on that path, he’ll eventually discover the “infallible” part is bogus too.

58 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:32:42pm

re: #54 Cankles McCellulite

Passes her panty hose to Cankles.
Here, YOU wear them.

59 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:32:47pm

re: #54 Cankles McCellulite

Farther i say! I will not be satisfied until male hosiery finally comes back!

I’m partial to the powdered wigs myself. The chicks dig’em.

/

60 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:33:38pm

re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I’m partial to the powdered wigs myself. The chicks dig’em.

/

Sneezes.
Gazoondheight!

61 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:34:11pm

In retrospect, at 60 years of age, were I a child again, I would flee to the hills, far far away from any such “educational” system that made of my young mind such a political-fundamentalist football.

They have no respect for their charges, no, none at all.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:35:01pm

re: #47 Girth

Science. Supernatural forces. These are absolutely 100% mutually exclusive subjects.

Until you come to the point of explaining the operation of fucking magnets.

63 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:35:34pm

I’d like to know how the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster fits in on all this.

64 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:36:21pm

Why do I have to get this stuff from LGF? How come the Democrats, who I think are not mostly creationists, never take up the issue?

And I might add even CNN and MSNBC.

65 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:37:09pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

I’d like to know how the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster fits in on all this.

Bah, damned heathens. We all know that Discordianism is where it’s at. Hail Eris!

/

66 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:37:21pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

The oft maligned PZ Myers…

And as the Wedge Document illustrates, the goal is to coercivelly convert this nation’s children into accepting their twisted dogma in order to gain power and wealth.

It’s right up there with Global Warming and the whole myth of fiscal conservatism. It’s all a joke.

67 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:37:32pm

re: #64 Naso Tang

Both major parties suck IMHO.

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:37:44pm

re: #56 Cankles McCellulite

I have always wanted to be a wet nurse!

Great! You put on this vinyl nurse outfit while I go get the giant bottle of champagne to poor over you.

/this is gonna be freakin’ awesome!

69 freetoken  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:37:51pm

Too bad ancient history isn’t on the curriculum - the students are missing out on the truth of the multi-millennial evolution of religions, the polytheistic origins of the monotheistic systems coming from the near Middle East, and how what today we call “Christianity” was built by splicing in pagan beliefs and Greek philosophy.

Something tells me that Gail Lowe doesn’t want her students to learn that.

70 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:38:02pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

I’d like to know how the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster fits in on all this.

Tuck the meatballs under the noodles, and then coil the noodles underneath, and with a little compression it fits in quite well. A bit snug, but it does fit.

71 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:38:13pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

I’d like to know how the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster fits in on all this.

They’ve got their tentacle around the topics!

72 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:39:22pm

re: #56 Cankles McCellulite

Enrico Caruso was saved by one, so the story goes.

73 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:39:24pm

re: #69 freetoken

Too bad ancient history isn’t on the curriculum - the students are missing out on the truth of the multi-millennial evolution of religions, the polytheistic origins of the monotheistic systems coming from the near Middle East, and how what today we call “Christianity” was built by splicing in pagan beliefs and Greek philosophy.

Something tells me that Gail Lowe doesn’t want her students to learn that.

Nope. Which is what I alluded to in #53. They only serve white bread at that diner.

74 freetoken  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:40:06pm

re: #64 Naso Tang

Why do I have to get this stuff from LGF? How come the Democrats, who I think are not mostly creationists, never take up the issue?

Because many people registered as members of the Democratic Party are themselves proponents of various versions of creationism/ID.

Remember, only a small minority of Americans truly accept the Theory of Evolution in totality.

75 Girth  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:40:21pm

re: #65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Bah, damned heathens. We all know that Discordianism is where it’s at. Hail Eris!

/

Hey! Don’t fuck with Bob! You don’t have the slack.

Image: JR-BOB-DOBBS.jpg

76 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:41:11pm

when the flying spaghetti monster reads the book of mermen, he’ll realize he was born with original fins

77 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:41:12pm

Damn.
We’re under our 2nd tornado watch of the day.

78 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:41:43pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Do what you need to do, to stay safe!
*waves*

79 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:41:52pm

re: #74 freetoken

Because many people registered as members of the Democratic Party are themselves proponents of various versions of creationism/ID.

Remember, only a small minority of Americans truly accept the Theory of Evolution in totality.

With all the great things going for the US, why are many Americans so backwards when it comes to religion?

80 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:42:33pm

0re: #77 reine.de.tout

Damn.
We’re under our 2nd tornado watch of the day.

Be careful out there!

81 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:42:56pm

re: #64 Naso Tang

Why do I have to get this stuff from LGF? How come the Democrats, who I think are not mostly creationists, never take up the issue?

And I might add even CNN and MSNBC.

Possible explanations:

1) The liberal media has cleverly chosen a cunning strategy of not reporting on the most egregious and repulsive policies emerging from the modern American Right, because not reporting on these things serves their liberal agenda.

2) Mass media is not liberal at all, and instead reports on stories that well-researched market groups follow. And it just so happens that the most vocal market segment is one that wants to hear stories about how evil liberals are.

82 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:43:02pm

re: #78 Floral Giraffe

Do what you need to do, to stay safe!
*waves*

*waves back*
Oh, I will.
It usually means we will have about a really thundery/lightening hard rainstorm, and not much more than that. But I’m staying inside all the same.

83 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:43:29pm

re: #64 Naso Tang

Why do I have to get this stuff from LGF? How come the Democrats, who I think are not mostly creationists, never take up the issue?

And I might add even CNN and MSNBC.

Because we have been conned into accepting that blind faith is a virtue to be respected. That, and the creationists would crank up the whole anti-christian persecution derangement to eleventy if that happened.

84 freetoken  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:43:39pm

re: #79 b_sharp

With all the great things going for the US, why are many Americans so backwards when it comes to religion?

I do not believe the majority of Americans are religious fundamentalists. However, many are in some sort of uncomfortable middle ground, unsure of how to integrate modernity into their basic religious beliefs.

That means whoever runs with the publicity ball - as the fundamentalists love to do - get the most attention and therefor influence political decisions.

85 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:44:45pm

re: #74 freetoken

Because many people registered as members of the Democratic Party are themselves proponents of various versions of creationism/ID.

Remember, only a small minority of Americans truly accept the Theory of Evolution in totality.

Given the emphasis on popular culture I wonder if they even care. People are funny though and they think that if they accept evolution they will magically turn into a atheist. Then there is the “you will burn in hell” factor so a lot of people will reject evolution because they think if they do they’ll spend a zillion years being burned with fire. That would be something wouldn’t it? But, I’m still sure apathy and popular culture plays a large role.

86 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:47:04pm

re: #79 b_sharp

With all the great things going for the US, why are many Americans so backwards when it comes to religion?

Because pollsterism does not lend itself to accurately representing facts. As a media-watching public, we are trained to believe that everything is about opinions, not facts. Thus, too many people believe that facts are just ‘one side’ of a debate between two competing opinions. (And it’s always two, no more, no less.) This is why so many normal people will believe a few completely ridiculous conspiracy theories or lies - because they think that the ‘truth’ lies somewhere between facts and made-up stuff.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:47:49pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Damn.
We’re under our 2nd tornado watch of the day.

I’d make a joke about atheists dying first in such situations, but really, I just want you to stay safe. Good luck Reine, may you and yours remain unscathed.

88 freetoken  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:49:59pm

re: #85 Gus 802

Being human I can confidently affirm the following: Humans avoid as long as possible tackling something that promises discomfort.

89 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:52:53pm

re: #74 freetoken

Because many people registered as members of the Democratic Party are themselves proponents of various versions of creationism/ID.

Remember, only a small minority of Americans truly accept the Theory of Evolution in totality.

No, I believe something like half accept it, and let us not quibble about small percentages. However a minority of Republicans accept it, but a majority of Democrats and Independents do, if my memory serves me right.

90 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:57:54pm

re: #81 Renaissance_Man

Possible explanations:

1) The liberal media has cleverly chosen a cunning strategy of not reporting on the most egregious and repulsive policies emerging from the modern American Right, because not reporting on these things serves their liberal agenda.

2) Mass media is not liberal at all, and instead reports on stories that well-researched market groups follow. And it just so happens that the most vocal market segment is one that wants to hear stories about how evil liberals are.

You are being far too kind. We know where Fox stands. CNN tries harder to be centrist and MSNBC is left, but the only one willing to bring religion to the fore is Fox, and that is in defense of religion.

There seems to be this American tradition that one cannot be critical of religious views and the Republican are laughing all the way to the donation pile, while the Scientologists snigger.

91 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:58:40pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Isn’t packing a science panel full of creationists a bit like consulting Big Oil CEOs on national energy policy?

Cheney already did that.

92 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:59:35pm

re: #83 Slumbering Behemoth

Because we have been conned into accepting that blind faith is a virtue to be respected. That, and the creationists would crank up the whole anti-christian persecution derangement to eleventy if that happened.

They do that every Christmas. I’ve heard them even as I was decorating the tree. Time to push back.

93 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:08:48pm

re: #74 freetoken

Because many people registered as members of the Democratic Party are themselves proponents of various versions of creationism/ID.

Remember, only a small minority of Americans truly accept the Theory of Evolution in totality.

Only a small minority of Americans know much about it. Unfortunately.

94 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:22:47pm

re: #75 Girth

Hey! Don’t fuck with Bob! You don’t have the slack.

Image: JR-BOB-DOBBS.jpg

Ah! The Floating Face of Slack!

All hail Bob Dobbs!

95 freetoken  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:23:50pm

re: #89 Naso Tang

No, I believe something like half accept it, and let us not quibble about small percentages.


Both Gallup and Pew have long running investigations into this, and there are some other organizations who have sampled popular opinion from time to time.

The problem is that rarely to the polling questions provide enough detail to differentiate between the possible variations of what people may truly believe.

For example, try asking your neighbor to tell you the difference between “Theistic Evolution” and “Intelligent Design”.

96 austin_blue  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:28:05pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Damn.
We’re under our 2nd tornado watch of the day.

Actually, it looks like the worst of it is going to to pass just north of BR:

[Link: radar.weather.gov…]

Close thing, though. Get the cars under cover. Hail sucks.

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:35:56pm

re: #93 Romantic Heretic

Only a small minority of Americans know much about it. Unfortunately.

I think that part of it is that for most people evolution is something they don’t deal with on a day to day basis, as it only really has an impact on the work of a very few people. By contrast, most people view their religion has having a much greater impact in their lives as they live them. Thus they side with the immediate and personal over the distant and abstract.

98 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:36:18pm

re: #95 freetoken

I don’t think you address the issue.

How many Americans accept the theory of evolution?

In political terms, I believe that a majority of Republicans don’t, and a majority of all others do, but none of them are prepared to make it an issue of ignorance because religion is the last bastion of political civility in the USA, even as it amounts to an abdication of the separation of church and state.

99 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:45:02pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I think that part of it is that for most people evolution is something they don’t deal with on a day to day basis, as it only really has an impact on the work of a very few people. By contrast, most people view their religion has having a much greater impact in their lives as they live them. Thus they side with the immediate and personal over the distant and abstract.

Those people are not the ones who get worked up about having their children supposedly taught they were related to monkeys. They are the ones who go to church to socialize, occasionally. They don’t actually think about these things, they just react to them.

We are not talking of sincerely held beliefs in most cases, we are talking of ignorance peddled by the usual hierarchy of those who are in it for control.

100 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:45:59pm
Walter L. Bradley, a professor of engineering at Baylor University, believes that there is scientific evidence for the existence of God and a “designed universe.”

Much of Mathematical Thought from Ancient to Modern Times (by Klein) indicates that this was a central theme of the Enlightenment era. It was a significant motivation for many who pursued science over the last couple centuries. Examples of such scientists include Newton, Mendel, and more recently, Einstein.

Rapid developments in mathematics, physics, biology, geology, astronomy, and computing in the last few decades have made it significantly harder to reconcile science and religion, especially when so many people embracing religion are actively rejecting science.

101 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:51:36pm

re: #100 abolitionist

pimf: by Morris Kline

102 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:52:06pm

re: #100 abolitionist

Much of Mathematical Thought from Ancient to Modern Times (by Klein) indicates that this was a central theme of the Enlightenment era. It was a significant motivation for many who pursued science over the last couple centuries. Examples of such scientists include Newton, Mendel, and more recently, Einstein.

I’m an engineer and old enough to prove without a shred of doubt that the designer flunked class 101.

As you you mention of Einstein. You need to to go back to school. He was no example of the sort you suggest, and I have no time to educate you.


Rapid developments in mathematics, physics, biology, geology, astronomy, and computing in the last few decades have made it significantly harder to reconcile science and religion, especially when so many people embracing religion are actively rejecting science.

Duhh.

103 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:55:58pm

re: #102 Naso Tang

Einstein was slow to accept quantum mechanics (“God does not play dice”), altho the 1905 paper that won him a Nobel Prize helped to launch that new branch of science.

104 freetoken  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:02:09pm

re: #98 Naso Tang

As I wrote, both Gallup and Pew have looked into this.

The wikipedia entry on the subject compares one result from Gallup and one from Pew:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
which illustrates the problem, with “belief in evolution” varying among self declared Democrats from 57% to 44%.

And even then, what is “belief in evolution”? My suspicions is that a non-trivial portion of those who said “yes” don’t really know of what the modern synthesis of the ToE is composed and that some of these people believe in a variant of “intelligent design.”

That is, these people believe that God is actively directing the process, at least in how man came to be.

This is in contrast to the Biologos-esque “theistic evolution” where evolution is truly a materialistic process that then gets interpreted in a theistic viewpoint (and IMO borders on Deism.)

105 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:10:28pm

re: #103 abolitionist

Einstein was slow to accept quantum mechanics (“God does not play dice”), altho the 1905 paper that won him a Nobel Prize helped to launch that new branch of science.

He also came to say that his biggest mistake was the bit about the dice, figuratively speaking. He was clearly, in many other comments, not referencing a theistic deity; but that has not prevented the theists from claiming what amounts to a “death bed conversion”, just as they have wrongly done with Darwin.

106 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:17:50pm

re: #104 freetoken

That educational ignorance of the subject in endemic in the USA is not in dispute. That is the unanticipated result of the commendable “separation of church and state” that the US has and that the better educated parts of the world don’t have.

The others have allowed themselves to actually say what is wrong with what the church has taught, but our high minded democracy has decided that the meaning of separation of church and state is that both have to be right at the same time.

George Orwell would have loved it.

107 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:20:23pm

Gotta go.

Subscribed but Good night.

108 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:25:33pm

re: #105 Naso Tang

He also came to say that his biggest mistake was the bit about the dice, figuratively speaking. He was clearly, in many other comments, not referencing a theistic deity; but that has not prevented the theists from claiming what amounts to a “death bed conversion”, just as they have wrongly done with Darwin.

I accept that Einstein wasn’t a particularly religious person, so he’s a poor example for that being a motivation. Clearly he pursued science for the thrill of discovery, for the most part. But I thought it was that fudge-factor, the so-called cosmological constant, that said he regretted most, not the comment about dice.

109 Spocomptonite  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:26:27pm

Creationsist thread?

Time to link to Aronra’s excellent “Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism series”.

Also, this video from potholer54, just because I can’t get enough of Mr. Hatfield saying in his British accent, “Oy, Hovind, there’s no F***ing carbon in it!”

110 dragonfire1981  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:35:38pm

re: #2 Lidane

In related news:

China set to overtake US in scientific research output

This times a million.

THIS is what’s going to get us killed in the 21st century economy. China is not the only country increasing investment in science and research. Whether your Right wing or Left wing, scientific research should be justifiable one way or another.

Instead of actually competing on the world stage, we’re needlessly selling out our future.

111 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 9:39:08pm

Einstein’s ‘Biggest Blunder’ Turns Out to Be Right

A new study confirms that the cosmological constant is the best fit for dark energy, and offers the most precise and accurate estimate yet of its value, researchers said.
112 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:17:34pm

re: #2 Lidane

In related news:

China set to overtake US in scientific research output

re: #110 dragonfire1981

[snip] THIS is what’s going to get us killed in the 21st century economy. China is not the only country increasing investment in science and research. [snip]

From the link,

China’s potential to match and even outstrip American science research output in absolute terms, in the near to medium term, is pretty certain according to the professor. An analysis of the findings suggests that this could happen as soon as in 2013.
113 aagcobb  Wed, Mar 30, 2011 4:25:57am

re: #110 dragonfire1981

We still have a lot going for us as a nation. We will have vast hordes of undereducated lower-class people who have no hope of advancement and will have to settle for the sub-minimum wage jobs Bachmann has planned for them, but we will still have world-class universities where cutting-edge research is done, and a well-educated elite who will have the best of everything. The British have done fine since they ceased being a superpower, and we will as well.

114 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 30, 2011 6:39:08am

re: #108 abolitionist

I accept that Einstein wasn’t a particularly religious person, so he’s a poor example for that being a motivation. Clearly he pursued science for the thrill of discovery, for the most part. But I thought it was that fudge-factor, the so-called cosmological constant, that said he regretted most, not the comment about dice.

You are correct about the “constant” regret. My poor choice of words because what I meant to say was that he repeatedly regretted some of his comments about spirituality and mentions of god, because people were constantly misinterpreting or misquoting him.

However having said that I do believe that the dice (Quantum Mechanics) and the cosmological constant are related, although I can’t recall the specific connection as I write. They do however obviously and fundamentally relate to the same existence, so that seems logical at the simplest level.

115 freetoken  Wed, Mar 30, 2011 6:54:10am

re: #114 Naso Tang

They do however obviously and fundamentally relate to the same existence, so that seems logical at the simplest level.

The forced ( = accelerated) expansion of the universe via “dark energy” (aka “cosmological constant”) is perplexing and not well defined outside of simply saying - “here, look at this strange phenomenon!”

The inherently probabilistic nature of existence at small scales, the Uncertainty part of the “Uncertainty Principle” is unsettling, but well documented and well described.

The only way to associate the two, as of today’s physics, is to hold to the idea of a “big bang”, that all of matter, energy, and space-time had an origination and that “dark energy” and fundamental constants (including Planck’s constant, which comes into play in QM) both must spring from such an event.

Beyond that - it’s physics la-la land with, as far as I am concerned, no clear evidence that in my lifetime there will be any meaningful progress on going any farther in understanding this.

116 Achilles Tang  Wed, Mar 30, 2011 7:52:23am

re: #115 freetoken

Getting into areas that I can’t argue specifics with here, although Hawking has some thoughts on the matter that can’t be described as la la. EG “The Grand Design”, for dummies.

If there is one statements that has repeatedly been proven wrong it is the one that says “We will never understand”.

117 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 30, 2011 8:26:41am

creationist loon?
The guy’s not a clown from top to bottom. He’s wrong about evolution, but he does know something about chemistry.


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