Michele Bachmann (R-Mars): Not Teaching Creationism Is ‘Censorship’

Bachmann joins the anti-science chorus
Wingnuts • Views: 27,395

Just to drive home the point that the Republican Party has become the anti-science bad craziness party, Michele Bachmann came out today and joined Rick Santorum in calling for creationism to be taught in public school science classes.

Youtube Video

BACHMANN: I think what you’re advocating for is censorship on the part of government. So the government would prohibit intelligent design from even the possibility of being taught in questioning the issueof evolution. And if you look at scientists there is not a unanimity of agreement on the origins of life. … Why would we forestall any particular theory? Becuase I don’t think that even evolutionists, by and large, would say that this is proven fact. They say that this is a theory, as well as intelligent design. So I think the best thing to do is to let all scientific facts on the table, and let students decide.

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346 comments
1 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:16:04pm

More reliable than Old Faithful.

2 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:16:51pm

The lower rungs of the GOP candidates must be feeling their time in the sun is coming to a close, so they are playing their Ace Card - God.

3 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:16:59pm

I also demand that alchemy, astrology. and the balancing of humours be taught in science classes.

4 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:18:27pm

"A grain of wheat plus a starfish does not equal a dog, and that this was what evolutionists were teaching in our schools."
-- Michelle Bachmann
[Link: stillwatertribune.blogspot.com...]

5 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:21:32pm

I say bring back leeches as the cure all, but I bet Obama and big pharma would never let that happen...
Marxists !!!

6 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:22:06pm

re: #4 jaunte

"A grain of wheat plus a starfish does not equal a dog, and that this was what evolutionists were teaching in our schools."
-- Michelle Bachmann
[Link: stillwatertribune.blogspot.com...]

Obviously she knows as much about science as she knows about history.

7 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:22:21pm

How Noah got Martians onto the Ark is the real untold story.

8 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:24:12pm

re: #7 jaunte

How Noah got Martians onto the Ark is the real untold story.

Heh, that sounds like it would be a good subject for the next History Channel special.

Write up the script and send it in; you never know, it could be a gold mine.

9 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:24:16pm

20% of the country is unemployed or under employed. America can't service its debt. The housing crisis has yet to hit bottom as its been artificially propped up. The gap between rich and poor is growing at an alarming rate. The fact that these douche bags spend even a moment discussing issues like this means they are not fit to govern.

10 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:26:37pm

Richard Dawkins:

A politician’s attitude to evolution is perhaps not directly important in itself. It can have unfortunate consequences on education and science policy but, compared to Perry’s and the Tea Party’s pronouncements on other topics such as economics, taxation, history and sexual politics, their ignorance of evolutionary science might be overlooked. Except that a politician’s attitude to evolution, however peripheral it might seem, is a surprisingly apposite litmus test of more general inadequacy. This is because unlike, say, string theory where scientific opinion is genuinely divided, there is about the fact of evolution no doubt at all. Evolution is a fact, as securely established as any in science, and he who denies it betrays woeful ignorance and lack of education, which likely extends to other fields as well.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

11 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:26:41pm

Censorship? It's not censorship not to teach biblical stuff in a science class.

12 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:27:05pm

just kill me now...these relentless fuckers are gonna win out...in 50years we will be eating ourselves

13 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:28:25pm

For these antsy religious conservatives, the obvious miracle of creation, which is in front of their noses all the time, just isn't enough?

Just shut up and look at it.

Quit arguing about the pale ghostly shreds in your mind, those unimportant personal ideas about exactly how it got here.

Just drink it all in as it is.

You aren't going to be able to put adequate words on the truth of it all anyway.

14 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:30:53pm

Karl Giberson:

Unfortunately, millions of evangelicals – and this would include much of the political base being courted by the GOP presidential candidates as well as the candidates themselves – are trapped in an alternative "parallel culture" with its own standards of truth. The intellectual authorities mentioned above – with the exception of Schaeffer who died in 1984 – all have media empires that spread their particular version of the gospel. Millions of dollars every year support the production of books, DVDs, radio shows, school curricula, and other educational materials. Very few evangelicals grow up without hearing some trusted authority – perhaps even with a PhD – tell them that the age of the Earth is an "open question". Or that scientists are questioning evolution. Or that gays are getting spiritual help and becoming straight. Or that secular historians are taking religion out of US history.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

15 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:32:01pm
16 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:32:25pm

re: #14 jaunte

Karl Giberson:

man the tunnels!

17 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:33:09pm

Imagine that. The state gets to decide what the curriculum is in a state school. That is not censorship. That is how one designs a curriculum having regard to the law. I wonder if I were a teacher, and I proposed to teach a theory about Christianity being an evil oppressive social construct created and perpetuated solely to subjugate the disenfranchised, would she feel that it was deserving of a class or two at school. It is a theory after all. We should just let the students decide. After all, students are known for sound judgement.

18 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:33:57pm

re: #9 Petero1818

20% of the country is unemployed or under employed. America can't service its debt. The housing crisis has yet to hit bottom as its been artificially propped up. The gap between rich and poor is growing at an alarming rate. The fact that these douche bags spend even a moment discussing issues like this means they are not fit to govern.

Welcome to the modern Republican Party, where being anti-science, anti-reason, anti-intellectual, anti-education, and in favor of turning the clock back to the Dark Ages isn't a bug. It's a feature.

19 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:34:08pm

If you ain't dancin' with snakes or speaking in tongues, you ain't feelin' the spirit.
Not joking.
Oh, and if evolution was real, how come we don't see any half ape half humans walking around?
I heard that one at the natural history museum...

20 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:35:19pm

re: #19 OhNoZombies!

If you ain't dancin' with snakes or speaking in tongues, you ain't feelin' the spirit.
Not joking.
Oh, and if evolution was real, how come we don't see any half ape half humans walking around?
I heard that one at the natural history museum...

Never seen Bryan Fischer eh?

21 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:35:24pm

When will The Establishment Clause become a central issue of this Election?

22 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:35:46pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He's a silvertop.

23 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:36:20pm

I would like to point out that Einstein, by showing that time and space are inextricable, has put an end forever to the question "how old is the universe." It is an incomplete question, and has no answer.

24 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:37:23pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Not if I can help it.

25 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:38:54pm

re: #21 ggt

When will The Establishment Clause become a central issue of this Election?

It's a central issue in every election because of these cretins. They always overreach and always forget that we've got a secular government for a reason.

26 darthstar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:39:01pm

There's a reason Bachmann and Santorum are at the bottom of their respective gene pools (as well as primary polls).

27 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:39:40pm

I'm terribly disappointed that the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't getting equal time, too.

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:39:47pm

re: #25 Lidane

It's a central issue in every election because of these cretins. They always overreach and always forget that we've got a secular government for a reason.

Was it addressed in the debates?

29 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:41:15pm

re: #28 ggt

Was it addressed in the debates?

No. It's addressed every time the social conservatives overreach, like with the personhood amendments. They've constantly got to be reminded that we were established as a secular nation, but the only way to do that is to defeat their bad ideas at the ballot box.

30 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:41:19pm

what "scientific facts" in support of creationism would she like introduced to the children. Just curious.

31 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:41:21pm

re: #26 darthstar

There's a reason Bachmann and Santorum are at the bottom of their respective gene pools (as well as primary polls).

Those words, in close proximity, should merit an automatic trip to the Bottom Comments :P

32 darthstar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:42:33pm

re: #31 publicityStunted

Those words, in close proximity, should merit an automatic trip to the Bottom Comments :P

I wasn't talking about Marcus Bachmann and Santorum...that would be a crossing of the streams.

33 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:42:53pm

I wonder if we'll get any late incoming trolls to these creationism threads.

34 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:43:03pm

re: #30 Petero1818

what "scientific facts" in support of creationism would she like introduced to the children. Just curious.

The ones that ignore fossil records, geology, and centuries of science to suggest that the Earth is only 6000 years old, of course.

35 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:43:04pm

Good night from Cisalpine Gaul.

36 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:44:19pm

re: #35 Ojoe

Good night from Cisalpine Gaul.

:)!

37 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:45:22pm

Does Michele Bachmann Think the Apocalypse is Imminent?

As Bachmann explained in a 2010 speech, she believes that if the United States turns its back on Israel, "a curse" will be placed on the land. As proof, she cited Genesis 12:3, in which God says to Abraham, "The one who curses you I will curse."
....
Bachmann's prophecy-driven politics extends to education, as well. As a conservative activist in the early 2000s, she was a member of the Minnesota-based Maple River Education Coalition, a small network dedicated to defeating state and national curriculum standards. As one newsletter published by the group explained, "[I]n the core curriculum now required by federal law, there is one unifying theme, which is the disbanding of the United States of America as a sovereign, free people, and the creation of an international one-world government."

38 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:46:37pm

re: #37 jaunte

Does Michele Bachmann Think the Apocalypse is Imminent?

She'd fit in great in a theocracy.

39 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:47:30pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

She'd fit in great in a theocracy.

the next Lucretia Borgia?

40 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:48:23pm

re: #39 ggt

the next Lucretia Borgia?

Don't know the Borgias well to comment.

41 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:48:48pm

re: #39 ggt

the next Lucretia Borgia?

I never thought I would say this, but that seems unfair to the legacy of Lucretia Borgia.

42 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:48:59pm

re: #29 Lidane

No. It's addressed every time the social conservatives overreach, like with the personhood amendments. They've constantly got to be reminded that we were established as a secular nation, but the only way to do that is to defeat their bad ideas at the ballot box.

I think it needs to be front page material.

could we have an OWS type promotion of it?

I can't stand that it isn't part of the public discussion, front and center.

43 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:48:59pm

In an evil way, I want her to be the Republican candidate for President.

44 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:49:44pm

re: #40 HappyWarrior

Don't know the Borgias well to comment.

Baddy Baddy Types. Really bad juju to invoke their names, in fact.

:)

45 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:51:03pm

re: #44 ggt

Baddy Baddy Types. Really bad juju to invoke their names, in fact.

:)

Uhh don't they have a tv show?

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:51:11pm

re: #41 Petero1818

I never thought I would say this, but that seems unfair to the legacy of Lucretia Borgia.

Yeah, Lucretia was sort of used and abused. Her bad nature was created, in part, by being treated as a pawn, IIRC.

47 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:52:11pm

re: #34 Lidane

The ones that ignore fossil records, geology, and centuries of science to suggest that the Earth is only 6000 years old, of course.

Well, see, God, at the creation of the Earth, salted the rocks with a plethora (Yes! A Plethora!) of bones and shells just to fool these so called scientists into thinking that the world is older than the young Earth actually is!

Various atomic decay dating techniques? Built in!

Gene regression studies? Built in!

It's all part of God's plan. He played all of the scientists for fools.

My kind of God.

48 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:52:46pm

Went to the usual wingnut sites to see if they picked up on Santorum's and Bachmann's hail mary passes... but it doesn't look like it.

However, they seem quite hot for Ron Paul's latest ad that takes a direct swipe at Newt.

Oh, and on Townhall they are pushing another Michelle Obama shopping story on food, complete with comments about wookies and apes. This is what it means to be "conservative" in America in 2011.

49 Spocomptonite  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:53:37pm

Hey, no one is advocating science be taught in Sunday School, so why do they want creationism taught in Science classes and then act like they are the ones being persecuted over it?

50 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:54:20pm

re: #49 Spocomptonite

It's a [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

51 erik_t  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:55:11pm

I'm profoundly embarrassed to even live in the same time zone (Greenwich Mars Time) as this woman.

52 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:55:27pm

re: #49 Spocomptonite

Hey, no one is advocating science be taught in Sunday School, so why do they want creationism taught in Science classes and then act like they are the ones being persecuted over it?

Oh, you and your silly logic.

Pfhh.

Liberal bastard.

53 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:56:37pm
Because I don’t think that even evolutionists, by and large, would say that this is proven fact.

Wrong again, Michelle. I am, I would, and I do.

I am also a believing Christian. I am late tonight because of that, in fact. No, I was not sorting my ammo stash or attending a Tea Party rally. I was at a local free clinic helping them give flu shots to people who cannot afford them. The turnout was huge, but all went well thanks to a posse of local doctors and medical students who volunteered their time.

54 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:57:44pm

re: #53 Shiplord Kirel

Thanks, Sk.

55 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:58:51pm

re: #53 Shiplord Kirel

Wrong again, Michelle. I am, I would, and I do.

I am also a believing Christian. I am late tonight because of that, in fact. No, I was not sorting my ammo stash or attending a Tea Party rally. I was at a local free clinic helping them give flu shots to people who cannot afford them. The turnout was huge, but all went well thanks to a posse of local doctors and medical students who volunteered their time.

Kudos, my man. A well played wednesday.

56 Spocomptonite  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:58:59pm

re: #52 austin_blue

Oh, you and your silly logic.

Pfhh.

Liberal bastard.

I know. Logic and reason makes me an elitist commie. Yay for oxymorons!

57 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:59:02pm

Indeed, Redstate and Foxnews don't even have a Santorum or Bachmann story on their front pages. I think it's all over for those two.

Cain and Perry likewise are clearly toast.

That leaves only Newt to carry the torch for the religious right, against the onslaught of Mormons (Romney) and Atheist Muslims (Obama).

So Newt is the man of the hour.

58 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:59:04pm

re: #53 Shiplord Kirel

Wrong again, Michelle. I am, I would, and I do.

I am also a believing Christian. I am late tonight because of that, in fact. No, I was not sorting my ammo stash or attending a Tea Party rally. I was at a local free clinic helping them give flu shots to people who cannot afford them. The turnout was huge, but all went well thanks to a posse of local doctors and medical students who volunteered their time.

Actually, it sounds like a wonderful way to spend the evening!

Good for you!

59 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:00:27pm

re: #53 Shiplord Kirel

That is what it is about.

Thank you.

60 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:01:04pm

re: #53 Shiplord Kirel

Wrong again, Michelle. I am, I would, and I do.

I am also a believing Christian. I am late tonight because of that, in fact. No, I was not sorting my ammo stash or attending a Tea Party rally. I was at a local free clinic helping them give flu shots to people who cannot afford them. The turnout was huge, but all went well thanks to a posse of local doctors and medical students who volunteered their time.

You sure those flu shots that you forced on those unsuspecting young women wont lead to some form of negligent and promiscuous winter activity like mot wearing a scarf or hat?/

61 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:02:00pm

re: #57 freetoken

So Newt is the man of the hour.

It's going to take a long time to plaster over his positions enough to appeal to the center.

62 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:03:36pm

re: #60 Petero1818

You sure those flu shots that you forced on those unsuspecting young women wont lead to some form of negligent and promiscuous winter activity like mot wearing a scarf or hat?/

Each one included one of our new LGF Zionist/Lizardoid tracking chips, which was obviously my real mission there.

63 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:03:36pm

re: #61 jaunte

It's going to take a long time to plaster over his positions enough to appeal to the center.

I think he is just the last in the series of speeddates. They chose him because he will bore the-hell-out of the GOP base and they will beg to nominate Romney.

64 Locker  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:10:22pm

A. It's religion.
B. The students are suppose to be TAUGHT you fucking moron not decide for themselves what is and is not science. I hope your grand daughter comes home taking about how she got an A in tarot card science today.

65 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:10:48pm

Sorry to go OT, but :

Mugshots Of The Senior Citizen Militia Members Charged In Attack Plot

66 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:13:13pm

Bachmann: I Would Close Our (Non-Existent) Embassy In Iran

Could you imagine the uproar if the Democrats had a candidate that said that?

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:14:59pm

re: #66 ggt

Bachmann: I Would Close Our (Non-Existent) Embassy In Iran

Could you imagine the uproar if the Democrats had a candidate that said that?

Um, Michelle, there was this little problem the last time we had an embassy in Iran.

I was a small child then, but I do recall it.

68 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:15:56pm

re: #64 Locker

A. It's religion.
B. The students are suppose to be TAUGHT you fucking moron not decide for themselves what is and is not science. I hope your grand daughter comes home taking about how she got an A in tarot card science today.

NO, NO, NO, children should not be allowed to think for themselves. Don't you understand? They are little balls of clay which G-d has given us, as parents, to shape in our image. . . . they are not individuals that G-d has entrusted to us to nurture and support.

/gah

69 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:18:42pm

re: #65 Lidane

Sorry to go OT, but :

Mugshots Of The Senior Citizen Militia Members Charged In Attack Plot

Why are you showing us that? it's the Marxist, athiest, Mooslims that are the problem . .

/gah

70 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:19:19pm

Cranky old domestic terrorists
[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Crump was allegedly the groups expert on ricin. “Ya got, ya can’t let none of it get on your skin,” he allegedly said. “Got to be a closed environment when it’s made. No wind. If it gets up your nose… there’s no cure.”

Crump recommended that the group “take a pound of that (unintelligible), get upwind, up around Washington, DC, get about 20,000 feet (in an airplane), and turn that shit loose, it’d cover the whole (unintelligible) of Washington.”

71 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:19:21pm

re: #65 Lidane

Sorry to go OT, but :

Mugshots Of The Senior Citizen Militia Members Charged In Attack Plot

Wow. The old coot on the bottom would be better employed playing Santa Claus than in his chosen pursuit of WMD terrorist.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:21:22pm

re: #65 Lidane

Sorry to go OT, but :

Mugshots Of The Senior Citizen Militia Members Charged In Attack Plot


Thomas allegedly claimed there was “no way for us, as militiamen, to save this country, to save Georgia, without doing something that’s highly, highly illegal. Murder. That’s fucking illegal, but it’s gotta be done.”

“When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people gotta die,” Thomas said.

I'm going to to focus on the loopiest aspect of this whole thing: how the hell is killing poor crazy Cynthia McKinney supposed to save the Constitution?

73 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:23:21pm

re: #65 Lidane

Thank god there are plenty of drunk illiterate rednecks of borderline intelligence or there would be no one left to save the constitution.

74 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:23:52pm

@Bill_Gardner
Updated, wonderful "Powers of 10" RT @thegarance: My God, it's full of stars. RT @JonHenke Unimaginably cool -->
[Link: dk.filmomania.pl...]

75 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:24:26pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist


Thomas allegedly claimed there was “no way for us, as militiamen, to save this country, to save Georgia, without doing something that’s highly, highly illegal. Murder. That’s fucking illegal, but it’s gotta be done.”

“When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people gotta die,” Thomas said.

I'm going to to focus on the loopiest aspect of this whole thing: how the hell is killing poor crazy Cynthia McKinney supposed to save the Constitution?

Cynbat the Sailor is the best thing the right has going for them. If she didn't exist, they would have to invent her (and probably would).

76 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:26:52pm

re: #70 jaunte

Cranky old domestic terrorists
[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...] Crump was allegedly the groups expert on ricin. “Ya got, ya can’t let none of it get on your skin,” he allegedly said. “Got to be a closed environment when it’s made. No wind. If it gets up your nose… there’s no cure.”

Crump recommended that the group “take a pound of that (unintelligible), get upwind, up around Washington, DC, get about 20,000 feet (in an airplane), and turn that shit loose, it’d cover the whole (unintelligible) of Washington.”

Fortunately, this old fool has no idea how to deploy an agent like ricin Once again, I think it wise not to elaborate on the flaws in his plan.

77 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:28:40pm

Ok you lizards on the west coast.. Watch Leno Tonight..His guest is Bill Cosby and it was just really special.. I probably haven't seen Bill on TV for a decade or so....Record it tonight.. I don't know what to say..You be the judge.. It was every where between a really old guy..( Really sad ) and a genius.. He was so funny about half way through..He was just funnier than hell..
But he is so old..It is so sad...I love him..
This is so rare so record Leno tonight....

78 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:30:30pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist


Thomas allegedly claimed there was “no way for us, as militiamen, to save this country, to save Georgia, without doing something that’s highly, highly illegal. Murder. That’s fucking illegal, but it’s gotta be done.”

“When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people gotta die,” Thomas said.

I'm going to to focus on the loopiest aspect of this whole thing: how the hell is killing poor crazy Cynthia McKinney supposed to save the Constitution?

They sound a lot like that Brevik--no?

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:31:09pm

re: #75 Shiplord Kirel

Cynbat the Sailor is the best thing the right has going for them. If she didn't exist, they would have to invent her (and probably would).

Cynbat the Sailor

*snicker*

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:31:42pm

re: #78 ggt

They sound a lot like that Brevik--no?

Ideological killers...yeah, they do.

81 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:31:45pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

Um, Michelle, there was this little problem the last time we had an embassy in Iran.

I was a small child then, but I do recall it.

We're pretty hard on their Michelle, but not like they are on the first lady. Nobody here has called Bachmann "Moo-chelle," for instance, or said she resembles a wookie----- a flesh-eating zombie or a Stepford wife maybe, but not a wookie.

82 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:31:59pm

re: #78 ggt

Speaking of which, Norway has an astoundingly low bar for insanity.

By their logic, ~25% of the US is insane.

83 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:32:26pm

re: #77 HoosierHoops

Ok you lizards on the west coast.. Watch Leno Tonight..His guest is Bill Cosby and it was just really special.. I probably haven't seen Bill on TV for a decade or so...Record it tonight.. I don't know what to say..You be the judge.. It was every where between a really old guy..( Really sad ) and a genius.. He was so funny about half way through..He was just funnier than hell..
But he is so old..It is so sad...I love him..
This is so rare so record Leno tonight...

I love Cosby. Even when he got the better of Jesse Jackson and everyone was down on him, he stood strong on his beliefs: Education!

84 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:33:03pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Ideological killers...yeah, they do.

They both had to create major violence to "save" white society . . .

85 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:33:45pm

re: #82 ProLifeLiberal

Speaking of which, Norway has an astoundingly low bar for insanity.

By their logic, ~25% of the US is insane.

Its true. their other name? The base of the Republican party.

86 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:34:00pm

re: #77 HoosierHoops

Ok you lizards on the west coast.. Watch Leno Tonight..His guest is Bill Cosby and it was just really special.. I probably haven't seen Bill on TV for a decade or so...Record it tonight.. I don't know what to say..You be the judge.. It was every where between a really old guy..( Really sad ) and a genius.. He was so funny about half way through..He was just funnier than hell..
But he is so old..It is so sad...I love him..
This is so rare so record Leno tonight...

Now, I'm seventy four years old...

Yes, a brilliant interview (mostly because of Bill, Leno just let him loose). My dad bought all of his albums when we were kids and we wore the grooves off of them.

87 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:34:26pm

re: #81 Shiplord Kirel

We're pretty hard on their Michelle, but not like they are on the first lady. Nobody here has called Bachmann "Moo-chelle," for instance, or said she resembles a wookie--- a flesh-eating zombie or a Stepford wife maybe, but not a wookie.

The Patriarchs are blinded by her Blue Eyes.

It's the only explanation I have.

88 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:35:12pm

re: #85 Petero1818

I agree sarcastically, but at the same time, I think Norway may be a naive here. He has reduced inhibitions, but that is it.

89 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:35:12pm

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Ideological killers...yeah, they do.

And that's the terrifying bit. Home grown sin.

90 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:36:14pm

re: #88 ProLifeLiberal

I agree sarcastically, but at the same time, I think Norway may be a naive here. He has reduced inhibitions, but that is it.

don't disagree with you. I saw a door open and walked through it.

91 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:38:15pm

Major religious leaders not coming out in public and denouncing this nonsense makes them complicit.

92 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:42:56pm

Were we talking about this last night, or this morning? Maybe it's a reptile/Lizard thing.

How animals predict earthquakes

Strange behaviour

The L'Aquila toads are not the first example of strange animal behaviour before a major seismic event. There have been reports throughout history of reptiles, amphibians and fish behaving in unusual ways just before an earthquake struck.

In 1975, in Haicheng, China, for example, many people spotted snakes emerging from their burrows a month before the city was hit by a large earthquake.

This was particularly odd, because it occurred during the winter. The snakes were in the middle of their annual hibernation, and with temperatures well below freezing, venturing outside was suicide for the cold-blooded reptiles.

But each of these cases - of waking reptiles, fleeing amphibians or deep-sea fish rising to the surface - has been an individual anecdote. And major earthquakes are so rare that the events surrounding them are almost impossible to study in detail.

This is where the case of the L'Aquila toads was different.

93 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:43:16pm

re: #91 Amory Blaine

Major religious leaders not coming out in public and denouncing this nonsense makes them complicit.

Which nonsense - creationism, or the wanna-be killers?

94 darthstar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:43:35pm

re: #91 Amory Blaine

Major religious leaders not coming out in public and denouncing this nonsense makes them complicit.

Especially since they don't really believe this shit either. Religion is a weapon used to control people...nothing more.

95 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:43:44pm

I do have to commend Norway for at least giving us all sorts of ability for us to snark and mock the Republicans. Because, by the Justice Ministry's logic, they are insane.

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:44:01pm

re: #91 Amory Blaine

Major religious leaders not coming out in public and denouncing this nonsense makes them complicit.

A couple have, but they haven't screamed it from the rooftops or specifically denounced candidates or preachers who espouse it.

97 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:46:13pm

Romney is now in serious trouble:

There are 13 places PPP has polled the Republican race in October or November where it also did a poll sometime between January and March. In those places Romney's net favorability has dropped by an average of 15 points over the course of the year.

On average Romney's favorability with primary voters was 54/25 in these 13 places at the begininng of the year. Now it's only 50/35. His problem is partially that his positives have gone down but more than that it's that as his name recognition has increased, most folks moving off the fence have gone into the negative column.

What's most remarkable about the decline in Romney's popularity is how uniform it's been- he's less popular now than he was at the start of the year in all 13 places where there are polls to compare. And in 11 out of the 13 places that decline in his net favorability has been at least 14 points- the only places with more modest declines are Maine and North Carolina.

98 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:50:00pm

re: #97 goddamnedfrank

I think he doesn't have any natural constituency other than millionaires. Everyone else who'd vote for him would do so "holding their nose".

99 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:50:15pm

re: #95 ProLifeLiberal

I do have to commend Norway for at least giving us all sorts of ability for us to snark and mock the Republicans. Because, by the Justice Ministry's logic, they are insane.

I don't know. Calling a sociopath insane and thus putting him in the category of the criminally insane where he will be incarcerated for life makes a certain amount of sense.

Life without parole has its advantages.

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:51:13pm

PUBLIC SERVICE COFFEE ANNOUNCEMENT

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:57:15pm

@AngryBlackLady Michael Moore is turning into the Orly Taitz of the left.

This is getting Twittered around like mad. What did he do now?

Char

102 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:59:22pm

Adios, Lizards. Sweet dreams to all!

103 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 9:59:25pm

Random; It blows my mind that Broderbund is still making and selling Print Shop!

(edit: sadly they won't let you play Karateka, which is what I was looking for)

104 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:02:21pm

G'night all. Sweet dreams and all of that.

105 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:10:21pm

re: #103 windsagio

Random; It blows my mind that Broderbund is still making and selling Print Shop!

(edit: sadly they won't let you play Karateka, which is what I was looking for)

Wait... Broderbund and Print Shop still exist???

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:13:02pm

Luap Nor, always good for a laugh!

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:23:25pm

This is actually On-Topic!

Complaint Tests Rule Protecting Science From Politics

Obama wrote a directive --who knew?

108 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:25:29pm

Good night from CisIowa Chicago.

Have a great evening/morning all!

109 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:26:46pm

re: #66 ggt

Bachmann: I Would Close Our (Non-Existent) Embassy In Iran

Could you imagine the uproar if the Democrats had a candidate that said that?

This is the person we're talking about.

Bachmann was selected by House Speaker John Boehner for a position "on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, giving her a new role as overseer of the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency and the rest of the U.S. intelligence community."

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:29:11pm

re: #109 JasonA

This is the person we're talking about.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I need a link for that.

111 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:32:36pm

re: #110 ggt

I need a link for that.

You can't wish this one away, ggt. It's for real.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

112 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:52:28pm

re: #105 JasonA

I guess its not the 'real' broderbund, but a successor company after they got bought out (notice there's no / in the o).

There's a 2011 version of print shop for reals tho' :D

[Link: www.broderbund.com...]

113 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 10:55:11pm

I can't bother wasting anymore time on Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, or Perry.

I'm saving my fire for our next republican nominee: Gingrich. :)

Romney is not going to be the nominee, and I'm still not sure why people thought he was going to get it.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:07:28pm

re: #113 bloodstar

I can't bother wasting anymore time on Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, or Perry.

I'm saving my fire for our next republican nominee: Gingrich. :)

Romney is not going to be the nominee, and I'm still not sure why people thought he was going to get it.

He's the best choice.

The one they don't want, but the best choice.

115 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:11:39pm

re: #113 bloodstar

I can't bother wasting anymore time on Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, or Perry.

I'm saving my fire for our next republican nominee: Gingrich. :)

Romney is not going to be the nominee, and I'm still not sure why people thought he was going to get it.

It seemed like it was 'his turn' and he seemed electable. My problem with him has become that he stands for nothing but a desire to be president. In that regard, he's worse than Gingrich, and worse than Obama as well. Both Barack and Newt want to be president because they have things they want to do and they need the presidency to enact them. Romney seems to just want to be president.

116 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:12:34pm

re: #113 bloodstar

romney is almost certainly going to be the nominee.

When push comes to shove the GOP just about always goes with the historical forces, and in this case that means first name recognition, and second whose turn it is.

117 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:14:08pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

He's the best choice.

The one they don't want, but the best choice.

I used to think that, but part of me is now wondering if, baggage and all, Newt might be the better choice. Newt will at least be able to offer a coherent set of answers and alternatives to Obama's policy proposals, whereas Mitt seems to shift with the wind.

118 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:22:48pm

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

I used to think that, but part of me is now wondering if, baggage and all, Newt might be the better choice. Newt will at least be able to offer a coherent set of answers and alternatives to Obama's policy proposals, whereas Mitt seems to shift with the wind.

Newt is every bit as inconsistent and ruled by expedience.

"Any ad which quotes what I said Sunday is a falsehood ..."

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:28:34pm

Oh, I see.

Michael Moore praised Huntsman.

ABL is yelling about it in terms of him being a 'damn Republican', but frankly, I'm more wondering what the hell Huntsman ever did to Moore to make him do this to him.

120 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:31:49pm

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

What to you think of Newt's recent assertions that Congress can simply choose to pass laws exempt from judicial review? The idea that he can even make such a proposal with a straight face is unbelievably frightening.

121 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:32:25pm

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

I used to think that, but part of me is now wondering if, baggage and all, Newt might be the better choice. Newt will at least be able to offer a coherent set of answers and alternatives to Obama's policy proposals, whereas Mitt seems to shift with the wind.

Same Newt who bashed Obama for not leaping head-first into Libya, then bashed him again when he did?

122 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:47:45pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm more wondering what the hell Huntsman ever did to Moore to make him do this to him.

Haha. I was just thinking the same thing.

I'd think that being praised by Moore would amount to being damned with faint praise. Sort of like when Bill Clinton praised Newt.

123 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:58:10pm

re: #113 bloodstar

Romney is not going to be the nominee, and I'm still not sure why people thought he was going to get it.

It's the inevitability. You know, sort of like how Hillary was the inevitable Democratic nominee in 2008.

124 dragonath  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:01:36am
"There's only one that has sanity operating inside of him, and that's Jon Huntsman. I mean when they asked 'who here believes in science?' he wanted to raise his hand," Moore said.

HAHAHA, ABL is freaking out over this? Wow.

125 Jaerik  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:27:39am

So banning discussion of Christian beliefs = censorship, but banning discussion of Islamic beliefs = national security.

Got it.

126 freetoken  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:39:04am
MP3 Audio
127 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:42:09am

The neonazi terror cell story gets weirder and weirder. Now a protocol made by the US Defense Intelligence Agency surfaced, detailing the shooting of a female cop in Heilbronn in 2007 (the DIA was on scene!):

SHOOTING INCIDENT INVOLVING BW OPS OFFICER WITH RIGHT WING OPERATIVES AND REGULAR POLICE PATROL ON THE SCENE

Oh, and the shooters deposited 2,3 MILLION euros at a a bank immediately prior to this.

[Link: www.stern.de...]

128 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:44:04am

re: #127 000G

The neonazi terror cell story gets weirder and weirder. Now a protocol made by the US Defense Intelligence Agency surfaced, detailing the shooting of a female cop in Heilbronn in 2007 (the DIA was on scene!):

Oh, and the shooters deposited 2,3 MILLION euros at a a bank immediately prior to this.

[Link: www.stern.de...]

O_o
What in Oblivion is going on?

129 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:44:21am

Suez Port Employees Reveal 21-Ton US Tear Gas Order for Interior Ministry

Port workers in Suez refuse to receive initial seven ton shipment as the interior ministry looks to restock after firing tear gas at protesters in Egypt for six days last week

[Link: english.ahram.org.eg...]

130 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:51:33am

re: #128 Varek Raith

O_o
What in Oblivion is going on?

I dunno, but the DIA says that two German intelligence agents were also on scene, observing the thing.

Bad, bad mojo. This is a very deep rabbit hole.

131 freetoken  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 1:11:52am
MP3 Audio
132 researchok  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 1:25:32am

Morning, all

133 researchok  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 1:29:51am

re: #131 freetoken

Great selection

TY

134 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 1:51:27am

re: #113 bloodstar

I can't bother wasting anymore time on Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, or Perry.

I'm saving my fire for our next republican nominee: Gingrich. :)

Romney is not going to be the nominee, and I'm still not sure why people thought he was going to get it.

if romney's not the nominee they lose bad

political parties are not part of the constitution. there is no constitutional requirement that they make nominations in a democratic fashion.

the people who really run the republican party will see to it that romney is nominated

135 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:04:47am

re: #17 Petero1818

Imagine that. The state gets to decide what the curriculum is in a state school. That is not censorship. That is how one designs a curriculum having regard to the law. I wonder if I were a teacher, and I proposed to teach a theory about Christianity being an evil oppressive social construct created and perpetuated solely to subjugate the disenfranchised, would she feel that it was deserving of a class or two at school. It is a theory after all. We should just let the students decide. After all, students are known for sound judgement.

She also skips over the fact that local school boards are elected, and state school boards are appointed by elected officials. And all of them are supposed to swear they will uphold the (state) Constitution and by extension the US Constitution. There is no Federal Censorship Czar dictating to state BOEs that creationism is out and evolution is in. If there was, all that science curriculum nonsense in Texas would never have happened.

Basically, she's parroting the claptrap that the Discovery Institute peddles. No original thought here. Move along, folks.

136 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:05:02am

re: #134 engineer dog

if romney's not the nominee they lose bad

political parties are not part of the constitution. there is no constitutional requirement that they make nominations in a democratic fashion.

the people who really run the republican party will see to it that romney is nominated

They like to make the practice look and feel democratic for PR reasons. Romney has to win, the party establishment knows he is their ohly chance.

The only fly in the ointment would be a backlash leading to a third-party conservative candidate.

This is the only reason to pay attention to the likes of Bachmann and Santorum: they nontheless represent a sizeable chunk of the GOP electorate.

137 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:43:14am

'Morning, all. My fair state enjoyed busting a visiting German Mercedes executive on immigration paperwork. To prove they're not profiling Europeans, we seem to have just done the same to a Japanese Honda worker.

"Show us your papers, and don't forget to come back, y'all hear."

138 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:43:51am

Works better with the link:

[Link: annistonstar.com...]

139 freetoken  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:44:49am

re: #137 Decatur Deb

'Morning, all. My fair state enjoyed busting a visiting German Mercedes executive on immigration paperwork. To prove they're not profiling Europeans, we seem to have just done the same to a Japanese Honda worker.

Has your state heard that WWII is over, and that we won?

140 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:46:08am

re: #139 freetoken

Has your state heard that WWII is over, and that we won?

If we won, why are they here taking advantage of our low-cost colonial labor force?

141 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:50:25am
A violent clash in Oakland, California, was a game-changer for the "occupy" movement. Iraq war veteran Scott Olsen was there, and suffered a fractured skull. Today, Scott is on his way to a full recovery and joins Ed for his first live television interview since he was injured.

Money quote:

"I swore to uphold & defend the Constitution from enemies foreign & domestic"

[Link: video.msnbc.msn.com...]

142 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:52:49am

re: #141 000G

Money quote:

[Link: video.msnbc.msn.com...]

Yeah--that "Oathkeepers" thing cuts both ways.

143 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 2:59:58am

re: #142 Decatur Deb

Yeah--that "Oathkeepers" thing cuts both ways.

It's no surprise that those are usually Paulbots.

144 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:01:29am

Anyone read this yet?:

November 27, 2011, 11:34 pm
The Future of the Obama Coalition
By THOMAS B. EDSALL

For decades, Democrats have suffered continuous and increasingly severe losses among white voters. But preparations by Democratic operatives for the 2012 election make it clear for the first time that the party will explicitly abandon the white working class.

All pretense of trying to win a majority of the white working class has been effectively jettisoned in favor of cementing a center-left coalition made up, on the one hand, of voters who have gotten ahead on the basis of educational attainment — professors, artists, designers, editors, human resources managers, lawyers, librarians, social workers, teachers and therapists — and a second, substantial constituency of lower-income voters who are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic.

[Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]

The fallout: [Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]

145 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:01:47am

Good waking up music.

Youtube Video
146 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:07:32am

re: #144 000G

More:

The 2012 approach treats white voters without college degrees as an unattainable cohort. The Democratic goal with these voters is to keep Republican winning margins to manageable levels, in the 12 to 15 percent range, as opposed to the 30-point margin of 2010 — a level at which even solid wins among minorities and other constituencies are not enough to produce Democratic victories.

“It’s certainly true that if you compare how things were in the early ’90s to the way they are now, there has been a significant shift in the role of the working class. You see it across all advanced industrial countries,” Teixeira, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, said in an interview.

In the United States, Teixeira noted, “the Republican Party has become the party of the white working class,” while in Europe, many working-class voters who had been the core of Social Democratic parties have moved over to far right parties, especially those with anti-immigration platforms.

See also:

Meanwhile, a recent poll spells trouble for President Barack Obama when it comes to blue-collar Democrats. The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey shows nearly half of all white Democrats with no college education say they don't want Obama heading the party's ticket.

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/29/what-does-it-mean-if-democrats-are-giving-up-on-white-working-class-voters/

That poll:

"The biggest change comes among white Democrats with no college education, a group typically considered the core of the party's blue-collar constituency," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Half of all white Democrats with no college education say they don't want President Obama heading their party's ticket next year."

Then-Sen. Obama's appeal to blue collar whites was limited in the 2008 cycle. In the Democratic primaries they tended to back his main rival, then-Sen. Hillary Clinton. And in the general election they went for the Sen. John McCain, the GOP presidential nominee, by 18 points, according to CNN exit polls.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/23/cnn-poll-blue-collar-democrats-support-for-obama-drops/
Full poll results

147 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:13:26am

"Working class" has also come to mean something different than it did for our parents' generation: my dad was a steelworker, but he managed to send five of his six kids on to college or continuing education, and all of us wound up more or less middle class.

The modern American "working class" has now come to embrace people in low-paid service jobs who would be happy to see their kids finish high school before dropping out because of pregnancy or criminal records...

They no longer think in terms of advancing socially, just in getting by from paycheck to paycheck and from job(s) to job(s).

148 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:21:16am

re: #144 000G

Anyone read this yet?:

November 27, 2011, 11:34 pm
The Future of the Obama Coalition
By THOMAS B. EDSALL

[Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]

The fallout: [Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Don't know Edsall. What's his bent? His thesis sort of flies in the face of the Vast Democratic Labor Union Conspiracy.

149 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:26:23am

re: #147 ralphieboy

"Working class" has also come to mean something different than it did for our parents' generation: my dad was a steelworker, but he managed to send five of his six kids on to college or continuing education, and all of us wound up more or less middle class.

The modern American "working class" has now come to embrace people in low-paid service jobs who would be happy to see their kids finish high school before dropping out because of pregnancy or criminal records...

They no longer think in terms of advancing socially, just in getting by from paycheck to paycheck and from job(s) to job(s).

Of course, back in the day, the "working class" also didn't live in constant fear that they were a paycheck away from being on the streets. Or that they could find themselves jobless because their boss gets a bonus if he fires people and still increases production by working the others like slaves. Or that their job might be A) automated into obsolesce or B) shipped overseas to be worked by a 12-yr old kid making pocket change a day.

Seriously, with so many folks living in constant fear that they could be jobless tomorrow, it's not surprising that when "experts" declare that allowing the Bush Tax Cuts to expire or raising taxes on the rich could lead to job losses, the "working class" automatically panics and screams down such policies. Thankfully, though, polls showing the public more in favor of taxing the rich seems to show some light at the end of the tunnel. Whether that's an oncoming train or not, we'll find out in the coming year.

150 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:28:20am

re: #148 Decatur Deb

Don't know Edsall. What's his bent? His thesis sort of flies in the face of the Vast Democratic Labor Union Conspiracy.

Thomas Byrne Edsall (born August 22, 1941) is an American journalist and academic, best known for his 25 years covering national politics for the Washington Post. He holds the Joseph Pulitzer II and Edith Pulitzer Moore Professorship in Public Affairs Journalism at Columbia University, and is a correspondent for The New Republic and National Journal. He is political editor of the Huffington Post.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

See also:

November 21, 2011, 6:22 pm
The White Party
By THOMAS B. EDSALL

In the wake of the 2008 election, conservative Republican strategists like Karl Rove, Grover Norquist and William Kristol warned that their party faced even worse defeats if it continued in its anti-immigrant posturing.

“An anti-Hispanic attitude is suicidal,” Rove wrote. The decision to “demagogue” the immigration issue was a “totally self-inflicted wound by House Republicans,” Kristol declared. “Beating up on immigrants,” Grover Norquist said, “loses you votes.”

Their advice was rejected. Republicans running for the House and the Senate defiantly calculated that they could win in 2010 with a surge of white voters, affirming the Republican role as the default party of white America. Initially, this approach appeared quixotic. A demographic tidal wave of African-American and Hispanic voters threatened to wash the Republicans out to sea.

But many Republican candidates — incumbents and challengers — did not budge. They not only held firm in their adamant opposition to immigration reform (despite its crucial importance to many Hispanic voters), but they also became even more hard-nosed. Former apostates on the issue, like Senator John McCain of Arizona, who had proudly backed immigration reform in 2004 and 2005, saw the light — in other words, read poll data on Republican voters — and moved to the right.

[…]

The percentage of non-Hispanic whites voting for Republican House candidates in 2010, 62 percent, set a record for off-year contests, beating even the 1994 Republican rout when Republicans got 58 percent of the white vote. In presidential elections, you have to go back to the landslide Republican victories of 1972 (Richard Nixon versus George McGovern) and 1984 (Ronald Reagan versus Walter Mondale) to get white Republican margins similar to those of 2010. McGovern and Mondale carried just one state each, Massachusetts and Minnesota respectively.

Another way of looking at it is this: fully 88.8 percent of all ballots cast in 2010 for House Republicans were cast by whites, compared to 63.9 percent for Democrats.

The degree to which the Republican Party has become a white party is also reflected in the composition of primary voters. For example, on March 4, 2008, in Ohio — where non-Hispanic whites are 81.1 percent of the population, blacks 12.2 percent, and Hispanics 3.1 percent — the Republican primary turnout was 97 percent white. Hispanics were 2 percent and the black turnout was so low it was zero percent, statistically speaking. One percent was described as “other.”

In the Jan. 19, 2008, South Carolina primary, 96 percent of the Republican turnout was white, 2 percent black, 1 percent Latino and 1 percent other. The population of the state is 64.1 percent white, 27.9 percent black and 5.1 percent Hispanic.

Now, moving toward what has all the markings of a historic ideological and demographic collision on Nov. 6, 2012, Republicans are doubling down on this racially fraught strategy.

[Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]

151 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:33:38am

re: #150 000G

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

See also:

November 21, 2011, 6:22 pm
The White Party
By THOMAS B. EDSALL

[Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]

An academic surrendering the white worker vote to the TPGOP, then. I'll worry more when the AFofL/CIO shows up at CPAC.

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:33:46am

“All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats.”
- Groucho Marx

153 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:36:37am

re: #151 Decatur Deb

An academic surrendering the white worker vote to the TPGOP, then. I'll worry more when the AFofL/CIO shows up at CPAC.

What percentage of the white working class is unionized?

154 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:41:11am

re: #153 000G

What percentage of the white working class is unionized?

Smaller than when the unions and the country were at their peak. Not insignificant when you throw in the public sector unions. If the Koch types are too successful I look for a resurgence along the lines of Wisconsin. One thing that throws Brin off is his false dichotomy between 'educated' and 'labor'.

155 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:45:29am

re: #154 Decatur Deb

If the Koch types are too successful I look for a resurgence along the lines of Wisconsin.

AFAIK, the unions lost in Wisconsin. Significant, no?

One thing that throws Brin off is his false dichotomy between 'educated' and 'labor'.

Edsall, not Brin. ;-)

And how is it false? Would "uneducated labor" and "educated labor" be a more accurate dichotomy?

156 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:46:41am

re: #155 000G

AFAIK, the unions lost in Wisconsin. Significant, no?

Edsall, not Brin. ;-)

And how is it false? Would "uneducated labor" and "educated labor" be a more accurate dichotomy?

Yeah, ask Scott Walker how pissing off the unions is working for him.

157 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:47:51am

Honesty:

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

AT&T admits that its underground fuel storage tanks have leaked gasoline and carcinogenic benzene into groundwater for years, threatening the public water supply, but the company's "suggested approach was to 'do nothing' because it would be 'too much of a hassle to remove'" the leaking tanks, Harris County and Texas say in Harris County Court.

The state and county say AT&T and several of its subsidiaries, including Southwestern Bell Telephone, violated the Texas Water Code.

According to the 40-page complaint, AT&T decided to buy gasoline in bulk for its vehicles, and buried hundreds of thousands of gallons of it in underground storage tanks throughout Harris County.

"AT&T's underground gasoline tanks are located in communities near homes, schools, churches and public and private drinking water wells. In public documents, AT&T has admitted its underground tanks have leaked chemicals into the environment and have done so for years, affecting the neighborhoods across the county," the complaint states.

"In addition to the fact that AT&T's actions have violated state and local laws regulating underground storage tanks and the protection of the environment, Harris County's already limited resources have been further strained by the need to address contamination left behind by AT&T."

Harris County says AT&T has long been aware of problems with its storage tanks, as California filed a similar lawsuit against the company in 2006, and AT&T paid $25 million in civil penalties to that state.

"In Harris County alone, AT&T has admitted that it has 34 leaking underground fuel storage tanks, and that at least 13 of those tanks have been allowed to pollute the groundwater with gasoline and hazardous substances that are known to cause harm and adverse health effects to humans and the environment," the complaint states.

The county claims AT&T and its consultants have taken a "cavalier attitude" toward its water pollution, as shown by its communications with state regulators.

In one case, "AT&T learned that a sewer line near one of AT&T's leaking USTs [underground storage tanks] contained explosive concentrations of leaked gasoline. In response, AT&T's consultants told the state that AT&T's suggested approach was to 'do nothing' because it would be 'too much of a hassle to remove' the leaking UST out of the ground," according to the complaint.

158 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:49:56am

re: #157 Obdicut

Honesty:

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

Obviously AT&T is over-regulated. Why, if we deregulated, I'm sure they'd have the money to fix this problem.

///

159 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:50:07am

The 2012 approach treats white voters without college degrees as an unattainable cohort

yet the core of obama campaign rhetoric is about democrats fighting for the middle class & working class, as in the payroll tax cut, vs the republicans fighting to keep upper class tax cuts but screwing the middle class, working class, & unions

it may not work, but it sure in hell doesn't sound to me like he's given up on trying to appeal to them

160 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:51:49am

re: #155 000G

AFAIK, the unions lost in Wisconsin. Significant, no?

Didn't lose--Walker et al will be toast when the recalls are done.

Edsall, not Brin. ;-)

Yup--reading several threads and sites at once.

And how is it false? Would "uneducated labor" and "educated labor" be a more accurate dichotomy?

There are entire unions that are college grads--Pilots for example, Screen Actor's Guild, writers etc.

(I'm trying to get my kid to organize his codemonkeys, but he's turning management and his company is hiring a lot of programmers from India.)

161 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:53:03am

obama 2012 campaign: watch me force the gop to choose between raising taxes on rich people or screwing you working folk over

162 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:54:09am

re: #161 engineer dog

obama 2012 campaign: watch me force the gop to choose between raising taxes on rich people or screwing you working folk over

That's the message he took to PA this week.

163 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:56:34am

re: #161 engineer dog

obama 2012 campaign: watch me force the gop to choose between raising taxes on rich people or screwing you working folk over

The GOP's already trying to head that one off. Word came out yesterday that they'd suddenly had a change of heart and are now looking to support an extension on the payroll tax cut.

164 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 3:59:27am

re: #163 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The GOP's already trying to head that one off. Word came out yesterday that they'd suddenly had a change of heart and are now looking to support an extension on the payroll tax cut.

Mitch McConnell is backing into that with his nose pinched shut but my idiot, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, is going to fight him.

165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:00:34am

re: #164 Decatur Deb

Mitch McConnell is backing into that with his nose pinched shut but my idiot, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, is going to fight him.

I swear if that name doesn't sound like something from Lil' Abner.

166 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:01:48am

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I swear if that name doesn't sound like something from Lil' Abner.

That, or Foghorn Leghorn. Just love typing it out.

167 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:03:15am

re: #164 Decatur Deb

Mitch McConnell is backing into that with his nose pinched shut but my idiot, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, is going to fight him.

And that's the sort of thing Obama needs to stoke more and more of in the coming year. Put the GOP in the position of being seen as supporting the rich over the working class, then watching the fireworks as the leadership fights it out with the TPers and "small government" types.

168 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:11:56am

re: #160 Decatur Deb

There are entire unions that are college grads--Pilots for example, Screen Actor's Guild, writers etc.

If they are not structurally linked with the rest of the unions, divide and conquer might work, though.

(I'm trying to get my kid to organize his codemonkeys, but he's turning management and his company is hiring a lot of programmers from India.)

Indians cannot unionize?

169 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:12:43am

re: #4 jaunte

"A grain of wheat plus a starfish does not equal a dog, and that this was what evolutionists were teaching in our schools."
-- Michelle Bachmann
[Link: stillwatertribune.blogspot.com...]

Youtube Video
170 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:14:15am

re: #159 engineer dog

The 2012 approach treats white voters without college degrees as an unattainable cohort

yet the core of obama campaign rhetoric is about democrats fighting for the middle class & working class, as in the payroll tax cut, vs the republicans fighting to keep upper class tax cuts but screwing the middle class, working class, & unions

it may not work, but it sure in hell doesn't sound to me like he's given up on trying to appeal to them

There might be a divergence between how the President runs and how other members of his party run for other offices. Remember Joe Manchin?

171 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:14:28am

re: #169 Alouette

[Video]

I think I actually lost IQ points hearing that.

172 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:15:24am

re: #168 000G

If they are not structurally linked with the rest of the unions, divide and conquer might work, though.

Indians cannot unionize?

Tough to organize mechanically--some of them seem to be here, some in Australia. I don't know enough about the labor attitudes or vulnerability of trained Indian programmers.

173 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:15:31am

Herman Cain's Vision for Foreign Policy

174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:15:50am

re: #166 Decatur Deb

That, or Foghorn Leghorn. Just love typing it out.

I'd probably go by Jeff, also.

175 freetoken  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:17:56am

re: #149 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Of course, back in the day, the "working class" also didn't live in constant fear that they were a paycheck away from being on the streets.

I disagree. That fear - of being only one step away from the poorhouse - was not uncommon. Lots and lots of stories. My father came of age during the Great Depression, and my mother grew up during that time. Going without and not knowing from where your next meal might come wasn't unheard of. If I have the story correct, my father basically had to leave his family's farm and live with an uncle. And my mother lived with her grandparents and her stories tell of her big gifts for birthday/christmas were things like new shoes.

176 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:18:19am

re: #174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd probably go by Jeff, also.

Here's Senator Leghorn's take (from the American Spectator blog):

"As a matter of financial responsibility, there's nothing easy about it," Sessions remarked, after explaining that the plan proposed by Senate Democrats would permanently raise taxes on higher income earners for only a one-year reduction of the payroll tax. The Alabaman also expressed doubt about the economic value of a payroll tax holiday. "It's not a tax cut, I don't think," he said. "Social security is a trust fund, it has trustees, they have bonds when they loan to the federal government....We're talking about having 160 million Americans not pay in to their retirement."

177 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:19:05am

re: #161 engineer dog

obama 2012 campaign: watch me force the gop to choose between raising taxes on rich people or screwing you working folk over

Versus the Republican slogan for 2012: "Obama: He's kind of a dick!"
(Ann Coulter's idea)

178 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:20:12am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

Tough to organize mechanically--some of them seem to be here, some in Australia. I don't know enough about the labor attitudes or vulnerability of trained Indian programmers.

You would think that internet-affine geeks might be the easiest to unionize…

179 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:22:03am

re: #175 freetoken

I disagree. That fear - of being only one step away from the poorhouse - was not uncommon. Lots and lots of stories. My father came of age during the Great Depression, and my mother grew up during that time. Going without and not knowing from where your next meal might come wasn't unheard of. If I have the story correct, my father basically had to leave his family's farm and live with an uncle. And my mother lived with her grandparents and her stories tell of her big gifts for birthday/christmas were things like new shoes.

True, guess I might have been a bit more specific. Even many of those we consider in the "upper middle class," folks who are usually seen as "financially secure," are finding themselves a paycheck away from the poorhouse. Or a hospital bill. Or a utility rate hike. Or skyrocketing gas prices. Or any number of unforeseen events.

180 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:24:10am

Barney Frank on the Rachel Maddow show on financial reform & TBTF, reducing military spending & obsolet Democratic Hawks, and the advance of congress inertia & right-wing radicalism for House Democrats:

MSNBC Video
181 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:24:17am

re: #178 000G

You would think that internet-affine geeks might be the easiest to unionize…

Son says programmers all think they're ronin/ninja/cowboys.

Sun's almost up, and I have to go see if the garden survived the near-freezing night. BBL

182 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:31:40am

re: #173 Obdicut

Herman Cain's Vision for Foreign Policy

Needs more Ubekibekibekibekistanstan.

183 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:34:31am

re: #181 Decatur Deb

Son says programmers all think they're ronin/ninja/cowboys.

Incorrect.
For I am an Evil Space Overlord.

184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:35:00am

Watching "Goldeneye" (1995) for the helluvit.

Funny. Minnie Driver has a little "bit part" in it as a terrible Russian torch singer.

185 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:35:56am

Oh!
I forgot!
Obdicut?
I read your book.
Quite liked it.

186 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:36:21am

re: #184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching "Goldeneye" (1995) for the helluvit.

Funny. Minnie Driver has a little "bit part" in it as a terrible Russian torch singer.

Irina, take a hike!

187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:36:59am

re: #186 Varek Raith

Ifuckingloveherfreckles.

188 sagehen  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:43:21am

re: #137 Decatur Deb

'Morning, all. My fair state enjoyed busting a visiting German Mercedes executive on immigration paperwork. To prove they're not profiling Europeans, we seem to have just done the same to a Japanese Honda worker.

"Show us your papers, and don't forget to come back, y'all hear."

It would serve them right for Mercedes and Honda to pack up their plants and move to California (where immigrants are treated, generally, as if we think they're actual residents).

189 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:43:42am

Off to the salt mines.
Laters.

190 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:51:45am

In a follow-up to a discussion yesterday:

How Paulson Gave Hedge Funds Advance Word of Fannie Mae Rescue (Bloomberg Markets Magazine)

191 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 4:57:24am

re: #150 000G

In theory, hispanics should be very receptive to GOP politics: pro-family, pro-small business, socially conservative. Yet the GOP seems to be doing everything it can to alienate them.

192 Flounder  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:15:57am

No poo flinging today I'm wearing a clean shirt, and I have a meeting at 9:30

193 Flounder  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:19:02am

That will teach him to buy Walmart brand kibble:
[Link: www.ksl.com...]

194 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:20:24am

That's the difference between Dick Cheney and a dog: the dog hot him in the butt...

195 Flounder  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:22:52am

re: #194 ralphieboy

Kinky

196 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:27:13am

Morning Lizardim. We had a short snowfall overnight here in the wild north country. Don't know how long it'll last, but at least for now, the countryside is overlaid in a blanket of beautiful white. MNDOT lived up to their reputation and the roads were in reasonable shape for the commute this morning, which makes me a happy fish.

197 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:47:45am

re: #185 Varek Raith

Thanks, man. Feel free to email me with any critiques or things you specifically liked.

198 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 5:50:44am

re: #129 000G

Suez Port Employees Reveal 21-Ton US Tear Gas Order for Interior Ministry

[Link: english.ahram.org.eg...]

Those type of shipments might be delayed for others. Combined Tactical had a fire last week in their gas production building. No one was hurt but it destroyed the building (spark from a machine set some gas alight, which spread). They are gearing up a test building for production but that will take some time. And yes, I have many friends that work there. It is 6 miles up the road from my house. I got the info from a friend that was working at the time of the fire (of course I got the info after I teased him about starting the fire to get out of work).

200 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:14:19am

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I swear if that name doesn't sound like something from Lil' Abner.

Or someone who will fetch his hound and then go down to the ballpark to keep the Yankees out of Chattanooga at gunpoint.*

201 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:16:31am

Eighteen foot Great White shark circles boat off the coast of N.c.:[Link: www.grindtv.com...]

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:26:31am

re: #111 JasonA

You can't wish this one away, ggt. It's for real.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Thanks for the link. I do wish she would just go away.

I need to email this around.

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:28:11am

re: #106 ggt

Luap Nor, always good for a laugh!

Newt doesn't have a chance. This is an political attack ad and it is EXCELLENT.

He's the date of the minute. The GOP will nominate Romney.

204 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:28:27am

re: #202 ggt

Thanks for the link. I do wish she would just go away.

I need to email this around.

If that committee is still anything like it was described in _Charlie Wilson's War_ then it is a plum assignment with a *lot* of influence in the intelligence community.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:31:37am

re: #204 oaktree

If that committee is still anything like it was described in _Charlie Wilson's War_ then it is a plum assignment with a *lot* of influence in the intelligence community.

Yep. She should be no where near anything that has to do with National Security, (or any other avenue of government, IMHO)

206 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:35:36am

re: #203 ggt

Newt doesn't have a chance. This is an political attack ad and it is EXCELLENT.

He's the date of the minute. The GOP will nominate Romney.

As I've been saying about the Republican nomination almost from the beginning: Whoever wins, they lose.

207 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:35:39am

She's right not teaching creationism is censorship - censorship of outright lies. Good teaching is the filtering of the jungle of true and false information through the censoring filter of good scholarship and factuality. Of course, I don't expect someone as daft as Michele Bachmann to get that.

208 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:35:50am

re: #199 ProLifeLiberal

Found this bit on the Egyptian Elections on TVTropes:

The women in Egypt worry about what could be next if the MB wins...

Egyptian women: your new government will want you back in the kitchen

209 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:41:38am

re: #207 SidewaysQuark

She's right not teaching creationism is censorship - censorship of outright lies. Good teaching is the filtering of the jungle of true and false information through the censoring filter of good scholarship and factuality. Of course, I don't expect someone as daft as Michele Bachmann to get that.

"censorship" is a good thing when it comes to anything they disagree with or seek to suppress, it is a bad thing when it comes to what they seek to promote.

210 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:45:28am

US Military on US Soil?

Can detain US Persons without Due Process?

I am so confused . . .

Huff Post Article:

What makes this sinister is that it comes at just the moment when the Senate has passed the National Defense Authorization Act (SB 1867) co-authored by Senators Carl Levin and John McCain, which contains a "worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial" provision. The bill legislates into law the capacity of the president to deploy the U.S. military anywhere in the world, including the United States, and have the legal right to arrest, hold without charge, incarcerate indefinitely, and even execute any U.S. citizen as a military matter without judicial oversight or control. As Senator Lindsey Graham says, the bill "does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland." This is the mentality dealing with Occupy, and unlike the Arab Spring, there is nothing that Occupy has done to date that has shaken this prevailing mentality. While Occupy has certainly challenged the prevailing elites, it has also given them the opportunity to exercise more powerfully the very powers Occupy is protesting.

211 darthstar  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:45:33am

“[The Republican House] consists half of people who think like Michele Bachmann and half of people who are afraid of losing a primary to people who think like Michele Bachmann.”
--Barney Frank

You can't say it any more accurately than that.

Mornin' everyone.

212 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:50:43am

re: #208 NJDhockeyfan

While some scions of the Muslim Brotherhood (like the Tunisian Branch) have moderated, the main body itself is still repressive.

The one in Tunisia is in alliance with two secular left parties. The Ennadha have the Prime Minister-ship, while one of the Left parties holds the head of the Constituent Assembly (which writes the new constitution), and last party holds the Presidency.

213 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:50:55am

teehee

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:52:33am

re: #202 ggt

Thanks for the link. I do wish she would just go away.

I need to email this around.

on my fb and already reshared!

215 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:52:50am

Greetings from wind storm swept Los Angeles. We got trees down, sigalerts, 200,000+ without electricity... Pasadena seems worst hit. It was weird. First warm and calm. Then a cold fog descended with a breeze. Then a hard cold (by LA standards) wind. Some traffic signals came apart right on the pole.

If Charles were up I'd ask how things went in his corner of SoCal. There may be a generator somewhere keeping LGF up and online.

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:54:03am

re: #215 Rightwingconspirator

Greetings from wind storm swept Los Angeles. We got trees down, sigalerts, 200,000+ without electricity... Pasadena seems worst hit. It was weird. First warm and calm. Then a cold fog descended with a breeze. Then a hard cold (by LA standards) wind. Some traffic signals came apart right on the pole.

If Charles were up I'd ask how things went in his corner of SoCal. There may be a generator somewhere keeping LGF up and online.

TURBO-HAMSTERS!!!

217 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:58:27am

re: #210 ggt

US Military on US Soil?

Can detain US Persons without Due Process?

I am so confused . . .

Huff Post Article:

I'd hold out any outrage for a bit. This may be one of those overblown things. I gotta go soon but this Thomas link has the text etc.

218 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:58:36am

re: #212 ProLifeLiberal

Morocco has something similar occurring. There, the number of seats needed for majority is 198. The Justice and Development Party received 107 seats in Parliament. Because of how the vote broke down, by necessity, they must have 2 other parties for a coalition. (Next Largest Party got 60 seats. 107+60 != 198)

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:58:46am

re: #210 ggt

US Military on US Soil?

Can detain US Persons without Due Process?

I am so confused . . .

Huff Post Article:

I made it a Page.

220 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:59:15am

re: #215 Rightwingconspirator

If Charles were up I'd ask how things went in his corner of SoCal. There may be a generator somewhere keeping LGF up and online.

This site runs on pure brain power...

(the brains, however, are powered by hamsters...)

221 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:59:25am

Coming Soon To A Supermarket Near You: Horse Meat?

Coupon clippers, keep your eyes peeled for great savings on the country's hottest new Congressionally sanctioned treat: horse meat! Yes, that's right, Congress has just lifted a five-year-old ban on funding horse meat inspections, which means that horse slaughterhouses in the US could be up and running in the next month.

For the past five years, Congress stripped the USDA's funding for horsemeat inspections, essentially killing the horse-killing industry. But just before Thanksgiving, Obama signed a new agriculture spending bill that did not include a ban for the inspections, which basically gives the go-ahead to slaughterhouses to get back to business. Congress released a report over the summer saying that the ban only "depressed prices for horses here while causing many of the animals to be shipped to 'foreign slaughtering facilities where U.S. humane slaughtering protections do not apply.'" Some pro-slaughter activists say that the ban actually resulted in more sick, aging horses being abandoned by owners who could no longer care for them.

One thing the new bill did not do, however, is allocate any new money to pay for the inspections, which critics says could cost taxpayers $3-5 million every year. And beyond the tax issue, there's always the sentimental argument against eating horses, too: "If plants open up in Oklahoma or Nebraska, you'll see controversy, litigation, legislative action and basically a very inhospitable environment to operate," predicted Wayne Pacelle, president and of The Humane Society of the United States. "Local opposition will emerge and you'll have tremendous controversy over slaughtering Trigger and Mr. Ed." Which is probably true, although the legions of foreign horse meat customers who import the remains of our Black Beauties have always praised her lean, clean flavor and rosy flesh.

Sorry, I can't eat horse meat.

222 darthstar  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 6:59:57am

re: #215 Rightwingconspirator

If Charles were up I'd ask how things went in his corner of SoCal. There may be a generator somewhere keeping LGF up and online.

LGF is hosted in Texas...which is good, as lizards are naturally drought resistant

223 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:00:57am

re: #221 NJDhockeyfan

Coming Soon To A Supermarket Near You: Horse Meat?

Sorry, I can't eat horse meat.

In this case, why not just let the vaunted Free Market (TM) decide?

224 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:01:22am

Heh. I was just reading through some articles on Cracked. Apparently, several US Presidents have admitted to misplacing either the nuclear "football" or the key that goes with it, the "biscuit". Including, but not limited to, our friend Jimmy Carter; Gerald Ford; Saint Ronald; and most notoriously, absentminded ADD sufferer Bill Clinton. You'd think it'd be your top priority NOT to lose those items...

225 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:01:43am

re: #221 NJDhockeyfan

Coming Soon To A Supermarket Near You: Horse Meat?

Sorry, I can't eat horse meat.

I take it that you are not French.

226 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:01:53am

re: #217 Rightwingconspirator

Our cousins in L.A. are without power.

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:03:10am

re: #221 NJDhockeyfan

Coming Soon To A Supermarket Near You: Horse Meat?

Sorry, I can't eat horse meat.

IIRC, the ban on slaughtering horses for meat (exported at the time) has caused a plethora of horses without homes. It was in the news a while back and was a real problem. Horses were suffering.

It think it's an issue of the lesser of two evils.

228 darthstar  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:06:03am

re: #221 NJDhockeyfan

Coming Soon To A Supermarket Near You: Horse Meat?

Sorry, I can't eat horse meat.

It's meat. The US exports tons of it a year to Europe. The rest is fed to those cuddly little tigers and other carnivores you see at the zoo with your kids...the US banned it for pet food in the 70s...that was before today's GOP.

You'll eat it.

229 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:06:06am

re: #227 ggt

IIRC, the ban on slaughtering horses for meat (exported at the time) has caused a plethora of horses without homes. It was in the news a while back and was a real problem. Horses were suffering.

It think it's an issue of the lesser of two evils.

I understand restrictions on dogs and cats, as they are kept solely as pets and not as livestock in any sense, but have no problem with the concept of slaughtering horses. Just wouldn't eat it myself.

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:07:39am

re: #229 ralphieboy

I understand restrictions on dogs and cats, as they are kept solely as pets and not as livestock in any sense, but have no problem with the concept of slaughtering horses. Just wouldn't eat it myself.

I don't eat meat at all, so, it's not an issue for me in that respect.

I wish it weren't necessary. But I'd rather feed people.

231 darthstar  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:09:21am

Shit...it's after 7...time to wok the dogs...I mean WALK! WALK THE DOGS!...

232 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:10:03am

re: #230 ggt

I don't eat meat at all, so, it's not an issue for me in that respect.

I wish it weren't necessary. But I'd rather feed people.

My buddy had a vegetarian girlfriend who would tell him "If you going to eat meat, you should at least kill it yourself!"

He brought back a steak once, and I reminded him of that quote, at which point he whacked the steak against the counter top as hard as he could and declared "There. It's dead!"

233 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:11:42am

re: #225 Alouette

I take it that you are not French.

LOL...no. I don't eat snails either.

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:11:48am

hot dog!

235 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:12:08am

re: #232 ralphieboy

My buddy had a vegetarian girlfriend who would tell him "If you going to eat meat, you should at least kill it yourself!"

He brought back a steak once, and I reminded him of that quote, at which point he whacked the steak against the counter top as hard as he could and declared "There. It's dead!"

I don't get that mentality at all. I could care less what other people eat--well, within the law -- just don't put it on MY plate.

236 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:13:33am

re: #235 ggt

I don't get that mentality at all. I could care less what other people eat--well, within the law -- just don't put it on MY plate.

We did look at meat differently back in the days when you slaughtered your own.

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:14:20am

Dilaudid is what they gave my Dear Ole Dad in hospice to curb is pain from advanced Cancer of the Spine. It is in a lesser classification than Marijuana???

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:16:27am

I have to start my Day.

Have a good one all!

239 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:17:35am

re: #236 ralphieboy

We did look at meat differently back in the days when you slaughtered your own.

My neighbor will only eat what he grows or kills. He doesn't shop at the grocery store...ever.

240 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:22:06am

re: #237 ggt

Dilaudid is what they gave my Dear Ole Dad in hospice to curb is pain from advanced Cancer of the Spine. It is in a lesser classification than Marijuana???

It has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with ideology.

Which about sums up the GOP's approach to almost anything.

241 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:23:49am

OWS protesters show no love for the POTUS...

Occupy Protesters Mobilize for Obama’s Visit

10:06 p.m. | Updated More than 100 Occupy Wall Street protesters marched to a Midtown hotel on Wednesday night to protest a fund-raising event for President Obama.

Escorted by police vehicles as they helped snarl traffic across the Times Square area, beginning at Bryant Park, the group settled in front of barricades on the southwest corner of 53rd Street and Seventh Avenue, in view of the Sheraton hotel at which Mr. Obama was expected to appear by 9 p.m.

Demonstrators held signs that leveled some of the Occupy protest’s most pointed criticism to date of the president. “Obama is a corporate puppet,” one said. “War crimes must be stopped, no matter who does them,” read another, beside head shots of President George W. Bush and President Obama.

One man, wearing a mask of the president’s face and holding a cigar, carried a sign that read, “I sold out!”

Ben Campbell, 28, one of the march’s organizers, said he hoped to prove to skeptics of the protests that the demonstrators were political critics of equal opportunity.

“President Obama is coming to town solely to raise money from the richest of the rich,” Mr. Campbell said.

...

242 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:26:26am

re: #241 NJDhockeyfan

How is Fox gonna spin this?

243 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:28:17am

re: #18 Lidane

Welcome to the modern Republican Party, where being anti-science, anti-reason, anti-intellectual, anti-education, and in favor of turning the clock back to the Dark Ages isn't a bug. It's a feature.

My understanding is that Bachmann is running behind just about all the others. For good reason. The Republicans are crazy when it comes to science, but not as crazy as she is.

Oh, and while we're at it, all this unemployment? Didn't we have a Democratic president, house majority, and senate majority that was so big it was filibuster proof, for two years? And now the democrats still hold quite a few cards, with the presidency and the senate. So how come this unemployment is entirely the fault of the Republicans?

And while we're at it, let's talk about the income gap. Are incomes more nearly equal in Utah, or in California?

The Republican party is crazy when it comes to science, and wrong every time it opens its mouth. But the democrats have their own faults and one of them is blind faith that liberalism, if only taken to a sufficient extreme, would solve any economic problem. All their failures are put down to the fact that some residual Republican resistance got in the way.

Economic thinking that bears little relation to reality is not a bug in the Democratic party, it's a feature.

244 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:30:35am

Kanye West has more Grammy nominations than Adele.

God, in his heaven, is weeping, and seriously re-thinking his promise not to send more floods.

245 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:31:03am

re: #243 lostlakehiker

The Democrats aren't perfect and nobody is claiming they are. But at this point, their economic policy is more in line with reality than the Republican "let's audit the Fed, annihilate the federal budget, raise taxes on the middle-class to pay for tax cuts to the rich, and unfetter our corporations so they can bend us over and pull our pants down" train of thought.

246 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:31:09am

re: #243 lostlakehiker

Keep grasping at those straws and denying reality.

247 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:32:18am

re: #235 ggt

I don't get that mentality at all. I could care less what other people eat--well, within the law -- just don't put it on MY plate.

Put it on mine. Squid, grasshoppers, ants, horsemeat, bison, frogs, whatever. Well, almost whatever. No whale or dolphin for me, no chimpanzee, no gorilla etc., and of course, no long pig. No rhino, whooping crane, cheetah or tiger meat either, but for different reasons.

248 blueraven  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:32:37am

re: #241 NJDhockeyfan

OWS protesters show no love for the POTUS...

Occupy Protesters Mobilize for Obama’s Visit

What? I thought OWS was Obama minions.

/

249 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:34:16am

re: #248 blueraven

What? I thought OWS was Obama minions.

/

Seriously. Hasn't that been the right wing meme all these weeks?

Guess OWS didn't get the memo that they were supposed to have blind faith.

250 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:35:03am

re: #245 thedopefishlives

The Democrats aren't perfect and nobody is claiming they are. But at this point, their economic policy is more in line with reality than the Republican "let's audit the Fed, annihilate the federal budget, raise taxes on the middle-class to pay for tax cuts to the rich, and unfetter our corporations so they can bend us over and pull our pants down" train of thought.

I wonder if that's the Republican platform. If it is, the Democrats will win. But the last I looked, Republicans didn't want taxes raised on anyone [itself, an untenable position, but different from the untenable position you ascribe to them] and if allowing Boeing to operate a factory that's already built is unfettering, then we could use some of it. It's just scandalous to make that factory sit idle.

251 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:35:48am

re: #248 blueraven

What? I thought OWS was Obama minions.

/

Only when it suits the ideological rant. That which does not fit will be stricken from record and flushed down the memory hole.

252 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:35:54am

re: #243 lostlakehiker

My problem with the GOP is that they see the unrestricted and unregulated Free Market as a matter of ideology, not just a mechanism for balancing supply and demand.

"Markets are there to serve the people, people are not there to serve the markets"

-Adam Smith

253 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:37:12am

re: #250 lostlakehiker

I wonder if that's the Republican platform.

Yeah, for the last 40 years or so.

They've also deluded millions into thinking that all those things are in their best interest. For example:

Frank Luntz is already teaching the GOP faithful how to spin OWS.

254 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:37:17am

re: #241 NJDhockeyfan

Demonstrators held signs that leveled some of the Occupy protest’s most pointed criticism to date of the president. “Obama is a corporate puppet,” one said. “War crimes must be stopped, no matter who does them,” read another, beside head shots of President George W. Bush and President Obama.

Lovely.
/

255 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:37:28am

re: #250 lostlakehiker

if allowing Boeing to operate a factory that's already built is unfettering, then we could use some of it. It's just scandalous to make that factory sit idle.

depends on what they are building - passenger planes or bombers?

256 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:37:29am

re: #211 darthstar

“[The Republican House] consists half of people who think like Michele Bachmann and half of people who are afraid of losing a primary to people who think like Michele Bachmann.”
--Barney Frank

You can't say it any more accurately than that.

Mornin' everyone.

Barney Frank, your hero? He's a lowlife. And everybody here knows it. Corrupt from top to bottom.

257 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:37:46am

re: #250 lostlakehiker

I wonder if that's the Republican platform. If it is, the Democrats will win. But the last I looked, Republicans didn't want taxes raised on anyone [itself, an untenable position, but different from the untenable position you ascribe to them] and if allowing Boeing to operate a factory that's already built is unfettering, then we could use some of it. It's just scandalous to make that factory sit idle.

Okay, so the raising taxes bit was a bit of hyperbole on my part. But the rest of it is all true: Ron Paul wants to audit the Fed, and he actually has a fair following in this idea; Republicans are adamant about slashing multiple federal spending programs at a time when government spending would be beneficial to the economy; they are absolutely in favor of cutting taxes to the richest individuals and corporations; and I believe their record on doing things like neutering the EPA, union-busting, and the like is well-documented. The GOP is staunchly pro-rich and pro-big-business, at the expense of Joe American and the economy as a whole.

258 blueraven  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:38:49am

re: #243 lostlakehiker

Where have you been for the last decade? Or the past 30 years as a matter of fact.
Trickle down, supply side, voodoo economics have reigned.
The Democrats have moved more to the center and the Republicans are off the chart.

Drug Benefit: unpaid for
Wars: unpaid for
Tax cuts: unpaid for

What could possibly go wrong?

259 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:39:06am

re: #256 lostlakehiker

So you're focused on the messenger instead of what he actually said?

That's just more proof of your pathetic attempts at spin.

260 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:39:15am

re: #255 ralphieboy

depends on what they are building - passenger planes or bombers?

Airliners. Very advanced and fuel efficient. Many tons of CO2 emissions could be saved if more of those planes went into service faster.

261 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:39:20am

re: #256 lostlakehiker

Barney Frank, your hero? He's a lowlife. And everybody here knows it. Corrupt from top to bottom.

Just because you agree with someone's view on a particular matter does not mean you want to get into bed with them.

262 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:41:59am

re: #260 lostlakehiker

Airliners. Very advanced and fuel efficient. Many tons of CO2 emissions could be saved if more of those planes went into service faster.

That part makes sense.

But recall: Boeing itself is a corporate monstrosity, half government defense contractor monopoly, half free-market, whose chief competitor is Airbus, which is also a (European) government-sponsored monstrosity.

263 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:42:21am

re: #258 blueraven

The Democrats have moved more to the center and the Republicans are off the chart.

Shh. Don't bring up that little fact. The narrative of the Dems still being a bunch of anti-capitalist hippies has to be maintained.

264 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:44:38am

Remember, kids -- the GOP is the party of smaller, more limited government:

Ohio GOP Rep. Wants To Drug Test Americans Who Need Financial Aid: It’s ‘The Compassionate Thing To Do’

265 blueraven  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:45:42am

re: #264 Lidane

Remember, kids -- the GOP is the party of smaller, more limited government:

Ohio GOP Rep. Wants To Drug Test Americans Who Need Financial Aid: It’s ‘The Compassionate Thing To Do’

Because that worked so well in Florida. /

266 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:48:15am

re: #264 Lidane

Remember, kids -- the GOP is the party of smaller, more limited government:

Ohio GOP Rep. Wants To Drug Test Americans Who Need Financial Aid: It’s ‘The Compassionate Thing To Do’

Small government and individual rights except it's not. I bet good money Schafer got elected bitching about the government.

267 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:49:34am

re: #265 blueraven

Because that worked so well in Florida. /

Pfft. Everyone knows that the only people needing financial assistance in this country are drug addicts trying to cheat the system.

///

268 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:50:47am

It amuses me that people who think they're for small government and against the nanny state support Republicans. The Republicans are just as big government if not more so than the Dems and bigger nannies too.

269 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:53:33am

re: #91 Amory Blaine

Major religious leaders not coming out in public and denouncing this nonsense makes them complicit.

To be fair many clergy have come out for evolution.

270 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:55:30am

re: #269 aagcobb

To be fair many clergy have come out for evolution.

The only people who see a conflict between Evolution and Creation are fundamentalist literalists.

But why is it that a lot of those who reject Evolution are all to happy to embrace Social Darwinism?

271 Lidane  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:55:30am

re: #268 HappyWarrior

It amuses me that people who think they're for small government and against the nanny state support Republicans. The Republicans are just as big government if not more so than the Dems and bigger nannies too.

Pretty much, yeah. Both parties are big government parties and have been for decades. Anyone who thinks that the GOP is a small government party is fooling themselves.

272 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:56:25am

re: #271 Lidane

Pretty much, yeah. Both parties are big government parties and have been for decades. Anyone who thinks that the GOP is a small government party is fooling themselves.

Which, most of the Republican base is fooling themselves about something or other, so it makes a bizarre sort of sense.

273 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:58:09am

Some places still have joining the 21st century to look forward to...

Interracial Couple Banned From Kentucky Church

In a move to "promote greater unity" among its body and the Pike County community it serves, a small Kentucky church voted to ban interracial couples from membership and from participating in certain worship activities, Kentucky.com reports.

274 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 7:58:49am

re: #113 bloodstar

I can't bother wasting anymore time on Santorum, Bachmann, Cain, or Perry.

I'm saving my fire for our next republican nominee: Gingrich. :)

Romney is not going to be the nominee, and I'm still not sure why people thought he was going to get it.

He was supposed to be "next in line." Plus the pundits kept saying it, because if you despise Obama as deeply as the Right does, the logical thing to do is nominate the guy who is supposed to be "most electable." Question is, how can anyone think Romney is electable when noone likes him?

275 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:01:11am

re: #274 aagcobb

He was supposed to be "next in line." Plus the pundits kept saying it, because if you despise Obama as deeply as the Right does, the logical thing to do is nominate the guy who is supposed to be "most electable." Question is, how can anyone think Romney is electable when noone likes him?

He's electable because he's not Obama, didn't you get the memo?

276 blueraven  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:01:29am

Last night I watched the first episode of Cosmos: Who Speaks for Earth? on Hulu. I plan to watch all 13. Again.

I took this as a science course in college in the early 80s and was moved by Carl Sagan's eloquent case for science as savior.
I was once again affected by his words, his passion and his humanity.

Juxtaposed against the anti-science fervor of the right wing, the need for us to embrace science and work together to save our planet was a stark reminder of how much we have failed.

I thought about how much 9/11 changed us, diverted us, divided us, and wonder if we will ever recover.

277 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:04:27am

re: #274 aagcobb

He was supposed to be "next in line." Plus the pundits kept saying it, because if you despise Obama as deeply as the Right does, the logical thing to do is nominate the guy who is supposed to be "most electable." Question is, how can anyone think Romney is electable when noone likes him?

Exactly, what has Mitt done aside from "looking presidential" to earn the electability title. He couldn't beat McCain in 2008 despite the base disliking McCain and a huge war chest. From what I understand, Mitt was fortunate to get elected in Massachusetts in the first place because his Dem opponent was awful.

278 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:05:04am

re: #272 thedopefishlives

Which, most of the Republican base is fooling themselves about something or other, so it makes a bizarre sort of sense.

Not surprising. People prefer lies to truth.

Lies are wonderful, glorious things that make the people that believe in them important, powerful and good, or part of something important, powerful and good.

Truth is often small, weak and not good.

Why would someone prefer truth to a lie?

279 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:07:08am

re: #271 Lidane

Pretty much, yeah. Both parties are big government parties and have been for decades. Anyone who thinks that the GOP is a small government party is fooling themselves.

Yep. I'm sorry but you can't claim to be the party of small government when your party escalated the Drug War, had the president that pushed a federal ban on gay marriage, railed against the right to build a Muslim community center, and supports polices that coddle corporations. I could go on and on but the GOP is not a small government party at all not socially especially or economically either.

280 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:08:45am

re: #272 thedopefishlives

Which, most of the Republican base is fooling themselves about something or other, so it makes a bizarre sort of sense.

They say they're for small government and than be filled with angst that gays are allowed to marry or have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples. The party of the religious right is not a party of small government and individual rights period.

281 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:11:11am

re: #221 NJDhockeyfan

Sauerbraten! Yum!

282 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:11:41am

re: #273 JasonA

Some places still have joining the 21st 20th century to look forward to...

Interracial Couple Banned From Kentucky Church

283 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:14:46am

As I look at the GOP field and dwell on the possible winners, I would like to offer my thanks to God for telling Huckabee to sit this one out. I really think he could have cleaned house in this season.

284 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:24:14am

re: #250 lostlakehiker

I wonder if that's the Republican platform. If it is, the Democrats will win. But the last I looked, Republicans didn't want taxes raised on anyone [itself, an untenable position, but different from the untenable position you ascribe to them] and if allowing Boeing to operate a factory that's already built is unfettering, then we could use some of it. It's just scandalous to make that factory sit idle.

The last time I looked, a lot of Republicans were complaining that 47% of the population don't pay any income taxes and they needed to pay something to have some "skin in the game." That sounds like a middle class tax increase to me.

p.s. Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would constituted a significant middle class tax increase as well.

285 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:25:31am

re: #282 Alouette

In defense of my state, it was just nine bigots at a tiny backwater church who voted to bar interracial couples.

286 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:25:55am

Germany probes if Iran pondering attacks

German media are reporting that prosecutors are investigating suspicions that Iran might be planning attacks on American targets in the country.

Der Spiegel magazine cited head federal prosecutor Harald Range on Thursday as saying prosecutors are investigating whether Iran may be planning attacks on U.S. military facilities in the event of an American attack on Iran. Federal police head Joerg Ziercke said there is no immediate danger.

287 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:27:33am

re: #284 aagcobb

The last time I looked, a lot of Republicans were complaining that 47% of the population don't pay any income taxes and they needed to pay something to have some "skin in the game." That sounds like a middle class tax increase to me.

You really only need to look at their stance on this payroll tax increase to see what they think of think of the middle class. And to see how serious they are about helping this economy, too.

288 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:30:49am

Dear Mr. President,
Please show this BAFOON the door!
..At least it's not both his feet!!


[Link: thehill.com...]

289 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:31:58am

Kilgore bait:

Top GOP Strategist Admits He’s ‘Scared’ Of Occupy Wall Street Because It’s ‘Having An Impact’

The The Republican Governor’s Association met in Florida this week and featured pollster Frank Luntz, who offered a coaching session for attendees about how they should communicate to the public. Yahoo! News’ Chris Moody was there, and captured some of Luntz’s comments on Occupy Wall Street.
Luntz told attendees that he’s “scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I’m frightened to death.” The pollster warned that the movement is “having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism.” So the pollster offered some advice for them about how to fight back. Here’s a few snippets of what he said, according to Moody:

290 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:33:56am

Satire magazine Titanic ridiculing German intelligence services failing at apprehending the neonazi terror cell for many years:

Image: image.jpg

Translated caption: "The Constitution Protection Service asks you for your help – Have you seen this man?"

291 sagehen  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:34:50am

re: #288 reloadingisnotahobby

Dear Mr. President,
Please show this BAFOON the door!
..At least it's not both his feet!!

[Link: thehill.com...]

He'll be 74 years old. Not a chance in hell; older than Ronald Reagan (who we now know was in the early stages of Alzheimer's towards the end of his presidency; thank god HW was on hand to pick up the slack.)

292 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:35:54am

re: #290 000G

Satire magazine Titanic ridiculing German intelligense services failing at apprehending the neonazi terror cell for many years:

Image: image.jpg

Translated caption: "The Constitution Protection Service asks you for your help – Have you seen this man?"

Now, some guy apparently hung up this title page as a poster in some town – and immediately the police got on the case, for the distribution of symbols hostile to the constitution:
[Link: www.sueddeutsche.de...]

Normal day in Germany…

293 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:38:36am

Obama Invokes Cold-War Security Powers to Unmask Chinese Telecom Spyware

The U.S. is invoking Cold War-era national-security powers to force telecommunication companies including AT&T Inc. and Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ) to divulge confidential information about their networks in a hunt for Chinese cyber-spying.

In a survey distributed in April, the U.S. Commerce Department asked for a detailed accounting of foreign-made hardware and software on the companies’ networks. It also asked about security-related incidents such as the discovery of “unauthorized electronic hardware” or suspicious equipment that can duplicate or redirect data, according to a copy of the survey reviewed by Bloomberg News.

The survey represents “very high-level” concern that China and other countries may be using their growing export sectors to develop built-in spying capabilities in U.S. networks, said a senior U.S. intelligence official who asked not to be named because he wasn’t authorized to speak on the matter.

“This is beyond vague suspicions,” said Richard Falkenrath, a senior fellow in the Council on Foreign Relations Cyberconflict and Cybersecurity Initiative. “Congress is now looking at this as well, and they’re doing so based on very specific material provided them in a classified setting” by the National Security Agency, he said.

[…]

The survey required companies to provide a detailed outline of who made equipment including optical-transmission components, transceivers and base-station controllers. The results, which according to the survey were to be shared with the Defense Department, give U.S. authorities a map of who made which parts of the nation’s networks, said Mischel Kwon, a former cyber- security official in President Barack Obama’s administration.

Companies that refused to respond could face criminal penalties under the Defense Production Act, a 1950 law allowing the government to manage the wartime economy, according to the survey. The law was invoked sporadically during the Cold War, said Lewis, the computer security expert.

The possibility that foreign companies could be seeding equipment with “backdoors” to intercept data crossing U.S. networks could have implications for a global economy in which China plays a growing role as a component supplier.

“What we don’t want to say is that we can’t have technology coded or processed in another country,” said Kwon, who has advised some of the companies sent the survey. “This is being read by some as very restrictive.”

[…]

Citing close links between China’s military and the network equipment giant Huawei Technologies Co., the U.S. House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on Nov. 18 said it would investigate potential security threats posed by some foreign companies.

The committee’s chairman, Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican, said China has increased cyber espionage in the U.S. He cited connections between Huawei’s president, Ren Zhengfei, and the People’s Liberation Army. Ren once worked as a military technologist.

“That’s what we would call a clue,” said Rogers, a former agent at the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

William Plummer, a spokesman for Shenzhen-based Huawei, said this month that the company welcomed an investigation.

“Huawei conducts its businesses according to normal business practices just like everybody in this industry,” Plummer said this week in a phone interview. “Huawei is an independent company that is not directed, owned or influenced by any government, including the Chinese government.”

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

294 Cap'nDave  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:38:39am
Michelle Bachmann tells supporters she would also close the U.S. embassy in Iran following an attack like that against the Tehran British embassy, but the U.S. has not had an Iran embassy since 1980.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Africa is a country. In Libya, the Taliban reigns. Muslims are terrorists; most immigrants are criminal; all Occupy protesters are dirty. And women who feel sexually harassed -- well, they shouldn't make such a big deal about it.

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

295 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:40:28am

TV ownership declines for first time in Nielsen history

According to Nielsen Media Research’s annual “Television Audience” report that was released this week, the number of households with a TV set will decline for the first time in the company’s survey history (which extends back to 1970). The rising trend of TV ownership has been leveling off in recent years, and now the number has dropped from 115.9 million homes in 2011 to an estimated 114.7 million in 2012. As TV Barn pointed out, that’s a 1 percent decline despite the number of households rising.

TV ownership among the key adult 18-49 demo also declined, and even steeper (down 2.7 percent — a downtrend that started to a slight degree in 2010 and then accelerated this year). Plus, the percentage of homes without a TV is at the highest level since 1975 (3 percent, up from 1 percent the previous year).

[Link: insidetv.ew.com...]

296 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:40:46am

re: #287 JasonA

You really only need to look at their stance on this payroll tax increase to see what they think of think of the middle class. And to see how serious they are about helping this economy, too.

I just about fell over; last night on the local news, AL FRANKEN, of all people, was on TV giving a speech about how he opposed the payroll tax increase. I never thought I'd live to see the day where I actually agreed with the maroon.

297 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:42:43am

re: #291 sagehen

He'll be 74 years old. Not a chance in hell; older than Ronald Reagan (who we now know was in the early stages of Alzheimer's towards the end of his presidency; thank god HW was on hand to pick up the slack.)

I think he won't run. I like Biden but at 74 and president, no. I think he's just making conversation. Gotta think if Obama's re-elected, he'll want to enjoy retirement and his grandchildren after forty plus years of life in DC. I'd love it if my senator and former governor Mark Warner ran. It's been a long time since Va's had a prescient and I think Mark would be a good one judging by his governorship.

298 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:44:55am

re: #296 thedopefishlives

I just about fell over; last night on the local news, AL FRANKEN, of all people, was on TV giving a speech about how he opposed the payroll tax increase. I never thought I'd live to see the day where I actually agreed with the maroon.

What's really funny is watching the GOP decide that now is the time to insist that tax cuts need to be paid for.

MSNBC Video
299 blueraven  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:48:57am

re: #288 reloadingisnotahobby

Dear Mr. President,
Please show this BAFOON the door!
..At least it's not both his feet!!

[Link: thehill.com...]

He is hardly a BAFOON.
Nice how The Hill takes a story predominately about ending the Iraq war and bringing our troops home and turns it into a 20 second soundbite that means absolutely nothing.

300 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:51:19am

re: #273 JasonA

Some places still have joining the 21st century to look forward to...

Interracial Couple Banned From Kentucky Church

This is what religious freedom is about. There are no female Catholic priests and many mosques have separate areas for men and women.

301 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:51:38am

re: #289 JasonA

Kilgore bait:

Top GOP Strategist Admits He’s ‘Scared’ Of Occupy Wall Street Because It’s ‘Having An Impact’

Luntz is an idiot. Although the general goals of OWS (taxing the rich, income inequity) are very popular with voters, OWS itself is less popular than the Tea Party. If OWS has any impact it still looks to me that they're going to damage Obama and the Dems.

302 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:52:58am

re: #284 aagcobb

The last time I looked, a lot of Republicans were complaining that 47% of the population don't pay any income taxes and they needed to pay something to have some "skin in the game." That sounds like a middle class tax increase to me.

p.s. Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would constituted a significant middle class tax increase as well.

They forget that everybody pays some sort of taxes, be it only sales tax. It is just a polemic device to exclude certain parties from consideration.

303 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:53:00am

These bigots' brats are too good for public school, anyway, so why do they give a damn what is taught in them?

304 blueraven  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:54:52am

re: #301 Killgore Trout

Luntz is an idiot. Although the general goals of OWS (taxing the rich, income inequity) are very popular with voters, OWS itself is less popular than the Tea Party. If OWS has any impact it still looks to me that they're going to damage Obama and the Dems.

Luntz may be an idiot. But the GOP thinks he is the bees knees. Watch and listen: they will be using the words and phrases he spews forth.

305 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:55:41am

re: #301 Killgore Trout

Luntz is an idiot. Although the general goals of OWS (taxing the rich, income inequity) are very popular with voters, OWS itself is less popular than the Tea Party. If OWS has any impact it still looks to me that they're going to damage Obama and the Dems.

More wishful thinking, same old bullshit.

306 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:59:18am

re: #304 blueraven

Luntz may be an idiot. But the GOP thinks he is the bees knees. Watch and listen: they will be using the words and phrases he spews forth.

Probably. By posing OWS as a serious threat is going to be used as a way to rally the troops and get everybody excited. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to use OWS as way to breathe life back into the dead Tea Party nonsense.

307 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:59:22am

re: #303 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

These bigots' brats are too good for public school, anyway, so why do they give a damn what is taught in them?

Because they need to ensure the next generation is brainwashed into the community of derp to solidify their power base for the next 50 years.

308 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 8:59:32am

re: #303 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

These bigots' brats are too good for public school, anyway, so why do they give a damn what is taught in them?

They want to soften up the potential new recruits.

309 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:03:28am

Get ready to replace your 100-watt incandescent lightbulbs

The phase-out of inefficient bulbs starts in January 2012 with 100-watt bulbs that use too much energy. Fans of 100-watt incandescent bulbs like the added brightness they provide, but when it comes to their energy-saving replacements, you can't have it all. Based on Consumer Reports tests of seven compact fluorescent lightbulbs and two halogen bulbs, to save energy you may have to sacrifice some brightness.

Though both types of bulbs use less energy than an old- fashioned 100-watt incandescent, a CFL can save you $100 or more on electric costs per bulb over its lifetime, compared to only around $3 per halogen bulb. But the halogen bulbs remain brighter than CFLs and about as bright as a 100-watt incandescent. Here are the details:

All bulbs lose brightness over time, even old fashioned incandescents. But in our tests even the brightest CFLs were roughly only 1,400 lumens after 3,000 hours of testing. Energy Star recommends 1,600 lumens or more to replace a 100-watt bulb when new, though it allows lumens to drop off as CFLs age. None of the bulb’s lumen output dropped more than Energy Star allows. (Lumens measure brightness; watts just indicate energy use. Both numbers are on the Lighting Facts Label on the package.)

"The challenge in making a brighter CFL is to get the spiral glass wrapped in a way that light is diffused and doesn't just bounce around the inside of the bulb, without making the bulb larger than the incandescent it's replacing," explains Terry McGowan, director of engineering at the American Lighting Association, a trade group.

I am going to buy as many halogen bulbs as I can before the new year. They make the room look much better IMO.

310 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:04:04am

Well, they finally had a crime at Occupy Lubbock. No, it wasn't the crazed hippies going on a rampage or sacrificing some shmuck to Cthulhu, it was a scumbag stealing their generator. The guy stopped his car at the encampment, cut the chains on the portable generator and threw it into the back of the car with the generator still running. He got away but the cops are looking for him.

311 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:12:12am

re: #264 Lidane

Remember, kids -- the GOP is the party of smaller, more limited government:

Ohio GOP Rep. Wants To Drug Test Americans Who Need Financial Aid: It’s ‘The Compassionate Thing To Do’

States rights is totalitarianism.

312 Flounder  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:13:03am

Some really great pics of the First Lady in this:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I wish my floors would shine like that!

313 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:15:22am

re: #312 Shropshire_Slasher

Some really great pics of the First Lady in this:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I wish my floors would shine like that!

Is Fox news complaining about the cost of the Obama's Christmas celebrations yet?

314 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:15:51am

So my morning commute to classes coincides with NPR's On Point. Every time the discussion is about a GOP candidate, someone calls in and complains about how the show...and the media in general...is showing favoritism by talking about Candidate X rather than Ron Paul. Seriously...every time, in almost the same sentences and tone. Either there's one guy dedicated to doing this--quite possible, the voice is the same--or there's a bunch of Paulbots with a script and the will to deceive the first round of vetting before they put you on air.

315 iossarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:16:36am

re: #312 Shropshire_Slasher

Some really great pics of the First Lady in this:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I wish my floors would shine like that!

Christmas is such an appropriate festival at which to celebrate the military.

After all, the message of Christmas is all about how, when faced with death at the hands of his enemies, Christ himself took up a M-16 and laid waste to the evil Romans and Pharisees, before liberating the people of Israel by force of arms.

The US - beyond irony at this point.

316 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:18:08am

re: #315 iossarian

Ever heard of the Christmas truce?

317 iossarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:19:46am

re: #316 000G

Ever heard of the Christmas truce?

Of course.

Then the people in charge told the truce participants to spend the next few years annihilating each other.

Christianity and military activity don't mix all that well.

318 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:19:55am

re: #312 Shropshire_Slasher

Some really great pics of the First Lady in this:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I wish my floors would shine like that!

Some of the comments are vomit-worthy.

319 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:21:06am

re: #317 iossarian

Too bad it didn't happen on the Eastern front. Damn those diverging calendars!

Edit: Oh no, I am wrong. There were some instances.

320 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:22:38am

re: #315 iossarian

Christmas is such an appropriate festival at which to celebrate the military.

After all, the message of Christmas is all about how, when faced with death at the hands of his enemies, Christ himself took up a M-16 and laid waste to the evil Romans and Pharisees, before liberating the people of Israel by force of arms.

The US - beyond irony at this point.

Oh wait, he totally did:

Youtube Video
321 Flounder  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:23:35am

re: #318 Alouette

I don't read them, I know what they are going to say. I just thought Michelle looked great, and the kids in it will never forget the experience.

322 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:24:41am

re: #318 Alouette

Some of the comments are vomit-worthy.

37 Christmas trees ... seriously!!!!! Nothing like throwing it in the face of those struggling. Kudos Mooshelle.

- dave, Anywhere USA, 1/12/2011 4:52
Rating 134

Living large on the sweat of hard working Americans. How do these people look at themselves in the mirror? Disgraceful!

- That's So Wrong, Anytown USA, 1/12/2011 4:26
Rating 122

Meanwhile, as Michelle Antoinette enjoys a luxurious and lavish Xmas, the growing number of poor and unemployed are worried that they won't be able to afford Xmas this year. As usual, the American Royals are blatantly out of touch. And to think that they used to jump all over Nancy Reagan for the very same lavish White House Xmas seasons. But somehow it's "different" now.

- Frank LeMoyne, United States of Obama, 1/12/2011 3:02
Rating 116


What a monumental example of bad taste! Does this woman have NO concept of class and style, or even economy? I wasn't a Bush fan, but at least Laura Bush didn't make the White House look like a bordello when she was in charge. Class will out I suppose, or lack of it!

- Grace, Colchester, 1/12/2011 4:24
Rating 110

323 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:24:55am

re: #315 iossarian

Christ himself took up a M-16 and laid waste to the evil Romans and Pharisees, before liberating the people of Israel by force of arms.

It's much cooler when the hero massacres his foe with some improvised weapon, like the jawbone of an ass, an ox goad, or a chariot wheel.

If long as we're retooling Christ to meet the manly specifications of "Action Christianity," taking on the Romans with a vinegar-soaked sponge and the sign saying "Behold, the King of the Jews" would be better mythopoesis.

324 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:24:59am

re: #197 Obdicut

Thanks, man. Feel free to email me with any critiques or things you specifically liked.

And I'll get to it...eventually. Just haven't had much time to do so lately. >.>

325 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:25:35am

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

I used to think that, but part of me is now wondering if, baggage and all, Newt might be the better choice. Newt will at least be able to offer a coherent set of answers and alternatives to Obama's policy proposals, whereas Mitt seems to shift with the wind.

You'll vote for any old GOP bigot crammed down your throat. Hilarious, and absurd.

326 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:26:50am

And now for the worst rated comments:

One of the ways conservative right-wing nuts attack the left is every Christmas they start up with their nonsense that "Liberals are waging a war on Christmas." I haven't heard it this year, probably thanks to Mrs. Obama. Is the White House decked-out enough now?

- Garrick S., Eugene, USA, 1/12/2011 8:04
Rating -77

I don't think this is tacky at all... Having Bo the dog be a little center piece for the holiday is good for the kids. You know you can't make it a santa, because that would be politically incorrect. I think its kind of cute to be quite honest and the kids seem to enjoy the crafts. The holidays are for positive cheer, any little bit helps. It's too bad that some of you posters are too miserable to miss the meaning and have to complain about everything. This holiday decorating has been done EVERY SINGLE YEAR under EVERY SINGLE president. I really don't understand the negative comments.

- kc, new york, 1/12/2011 17:07
Rating -74


LOL to you folks who say this will be their last Christmas in the White House. Do you not know anything??? Even if they aren't re-elected they don't leave the White House until JANUARY when the inauguration happens, and December comes before January in case you haven't heard. Jeez but Faux news is dumbing ya'll down. pathetic - TinaT, Phx, USA, 01/12/2011 12:42 Ummm Tina, you have only clarified just how stupid you are!

- Libby, London, 1/12/2011 15:51
Rating -74

I love, love, love it!!

- 4everyoung, Killen, USA, 1/12/2011 17:14
Rating -64

Wow. I'm shocked at the unbelievably disrespectful comments towards our President. He is our Commander in Chief, whether you voted for him or not, and all Presidents deserve our respect. Republican or Democrat. Vote against him in the ballot box if you want to. This isn't about politics, this is about Christmas! Every First Lady has done up the White House at Christmas. It's an American tradition.

- mags, williston, usa, 1/12/2011 11:29
Rating -50

Kudos to the Daily Fail for providing awesome photo spreadsheets that load nicely, but their reporting and their commentors leave a lot to be desired.

327 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:27:33am

re: #322 000G

KwanzaClaus has a very special gift picked out just for Barry. It's a new guilded Blow Gun. It will deliver sharp attacks, with questionable results. Try to ignore the spittle, just RUN.....
- BlownfuelCoupe, Las Vegas, America, 01/12/2011 16:59

And they paid for it with all the left over food stamps
- msnvirus1, hyde, 01/12/2011 16:37

328 iossarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:27:33am

re: #321 Shropshire_Slasher

I don't read them, I know what they are going to say. I just thought Michelle looked great, and the kids in it will never forget the experience.

It did look really cool and obviously an amazing experience for the kids.

Why the everlasting focus on the military though? Why not teachers or nurses or any other worthy group. Why always the guys with guns and bombs?

329 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:30:27am

I took a skim through DKos and it's encouraging to see some of the debate about OWS. Idealists vs pragmatists, at least there seems to be some level of awareness that there might be some problems.

330 allegro  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:31:51am

re: #321 Shropshire_Slasher

I don't read them, I know what they are going to say. I just thought Michelle looked great, and the kids in it will never forget the experience.

I agree with the sentiment but I felt a pretty strong negative twinge at the lavish displays that, to me, send a pretty negative message when so many millions of Americans are hungry, scared, sick, and either homeless or fearing homelessness. The tributes to the military are excellent and deserved and the parties for the kids are terrific. One or two big, beautifully decorated trees would be lovely, one inside and one outside - 37 seems... ugly with waste.

331 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:34:23am

re: #328 iossarian

It did look really cool and obviously an amazing experience for the kids.

Why the everlasting focus on the military though? Why not teachers or nurses or any other worthy group. Why always the guys with guns and bombs?

Since the White house represents the country, and those in our all-volunteer military have put themselves in the line of danger for the benefit of the country, I don't see anything wrong with it. Teachers and nurses sure deserve some appreciation, but not on the same order as people who give up some of their rights and possibly sacrifice their lives for the sake of the USA (and our allies).

332 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:36:11am

re: #329 Killgore Trout

I took a skim through DKos and it's encouraging to see some of the debate about OWS. Idealists vs pragmatists, at least there seems to be some level of awareness that there might be some problems.

You mean this?:

This isn't about "pragmatists" vs "idealists" on the left, this is bigger than all of us.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

333 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:40:21am

re: #273 JasonA

Oh, for fuck's sake.

334 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:45:05am

re: #314 The Ghost of a Flea

So my morning commute to classes coincides with NPR's On Point. Every time the discussion is about a GOP candidate, someone calls in and complains about how the show...and the media in general...is showing favoritism by talking about Candidate X rather than Ron Paul. Seriously...every time, in almost the same sentences and tone. Either there's one guy dedicated to doing this--quite possible, the voice is the same--or there's a bunch of Paulbots with a script and the will to deceive the first round of vetting before they put you on air.

Hah. Yeah, I heard the caller that did that over Newt last night. Didn't seem to want to take "We've had him on before and he's welcome to come on again if he wants" as an answer.

335 iossarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:48:04am

re: #331 wrenchwench

Since the White house represents the country, and those in our all-volunteer military have put themselves in the line of danger for the benefit of the country, I don't see anything wrong with it. Teachers and nurses sure deserve some appreciation, but not on the same order as people who give up some of their rights and possibly sacrifice their lives for the sake of the USA (and our allies).

I think teachers and nurses (and others) serve our country just as much as the military do. The "all-volunteer" stuff is frankly overdone - the military get paid to do a job, just like anyone else.

The real tragedy is that employment is so shitty in the US that going into the army is a good deal for a lot of people.

In any case, my original point is that military service is something that has virtually nothing to do with Christianity, which is a religion founded on the notion of turning the other cheek and loving your enemies to the point of not resisting death at their hands. So it's a little bit odd to make the military the focus of what is a Christmas celebration in all but name.

336 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:48:58am

re: #334 Simply Sarah

Hah. Yeah, I heard the caller that did that over Newt last night. Didn't seem to want to take "We've had him on before and he's welcome to come on again if he wants" as an answer.

I can't guarantee it's the same guy, but someone called in to say the same thing back when they were discussing Herman Cain awhile ago...literally the same thing...and I'm pretty confident I heard the same complainer back when Perry was flavor of the week.

337 Simply Sarah  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:51:55am

re: #336 The Ghost of a Flea

I can't guarantee it's the same guy, but someone called in to say the same thing back when they were discussing Herman Cain awhile ago...literally the same thing...and I'm pretty confident I heard the same complainer back when Perry was flavor of the week.

Oh, that doesn't shock me at all. All Paul supporters basically sound exactly the same. I think it's due to them having bought into all of his writing and statements at the cost of giving up on actually thinking. Massive groupthink = army of clones

338 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:52:45am

re: #273 JasonA

Some places still have joining the 21st century to look forward to...

Interracial Couple Banned From Kentucky Church

Pike County, Ky
This is the extreme eastern tip of Kentucky, the heart of the Appalachian hill country. Some of the stats may be enlightening:

The racial makeup of the county was 98.35% White, 0.45% Black or African American, 0.11% Native American, 0.41% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.10% from other races, and 0.56% from two or more races. 0.65% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

The median income for a household in the county was $23,930, and the median income for a family was $29,302. Males had a median income of $32,332 versus $19,229 for females. The per capita income for the county was $14,005. About 20.60% of families and 23.40% of the population were below the poverty line, including 30.20% of those under age 18 and 16.10% of those age 65 or over.

It is clearly an enclave of poor Whites, dis-enfranchised and passed by relative to the world they see on cable TV. Such places are breeding grounds for racism, resentment, and fanaticism.

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:56:37am

re: #338 Shiplord Kirel

"This kind of thing brands all of us so easily," said Randy Johnson, president of the Pike County Ministerial Association. "That's not who we are. From all the churches I've talked to so far, it's really not anger so much as it is shock."

Angers me. Angry Christian is ANGRY.

340 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 10:03:09am

My first morning of jury duty this morning for the first case, though mine was the first name called for the first panel. Didn't make it through voir dire. I'm shocked.

I think it's because I interrupted the proceedings about five times because I couldn't hear a word that anyone but the Judge said.

Clerk of Court asked me to fax a letter in telling them of my impairment and they'd probably excuse me from service.

And people tell me to get hearing aids...
/

341 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 10:04:37am

re: #338 Shiplord Kirel

Pike County, Ky
This is the extreme eastern tip of Kentucky, the heart of the Appalachian hill country. Some of the stats may be enlightening:

It is clearly an enclave of poor Whites, dis-enfranchised and passed by relative to the world they see on cable TV. Such places are breeding grounds for racism, resentment, and fanaticism.

you mean the ones who cling to their guns and bibles? elitist!!!

/

342 Billy Crimson  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 10:11:27am

My biggest hope has always been that Michelle Bachmann's campaign lasts well into 2012. After all, the filing deadline for the Congressional election is 6/5. If she just hands on long enough so that she can't run for Congress I'd be happy.

343 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 10:19:10am

re: #335 iossarian

I think teachers and nurses (and others) serve our country just as much as the military do. The "all-volunteer" stuff is frankly overdone - the military get paid to do a job, just like anyone else.

The real tragedy is that employment is so shitty in the US that going into the army is a good deal for a lot of people.

In any case, my original point is that military service is something that has virtually nothing to do with Christianity, which is a religion founded on the notion of turning the other cheek and loving your enemies to the point of not resisting death at their hands. So it's a little bit odd to make the military the focus of what is a Christmas celebration in all but name.

I still disagree with you on several points, but I'm just going to address one, and then let it go.

The real tragedy is that employment is so shitty in the US that going into the army is a good deal for a lot of people.

There has always been a class of people in this country whose options were more limited than those of other people. Many of those people were able to get out of bad circumstances by joining the military, which is more of a meritocracy (in the enlisted ranks) than other parts of the economy. It wasn't until after WWII that this applied to more than just white people, and it's only starting to be the case for women. It is a tragedy that some people join when it's not their first, second or third choice of activities, but once in, they can't stay without making a huge commitment and fulfilling it well. They deserve much more than they get paid, and they deserve celebration year round. And they deserve lifelong good care as veterans, especially if they lost some of their functionality because of their service.

344 Funky_Gibbon  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 10:24:37am

In the spirit of freedom from censorship I DEMAND that an alternative to chemistry is also taught in schools. You can keep your Periodic Table, what's wrong with good old Earth, Fire, Air and Water?

And anothe thing! Why isn't alchemy taught in schools? All we need to do is turn lead into gold and our financial worries are over!

And do we really need the number 0 in maths?

345 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 10:55:53am

re: #256 lostlakehiker

Barney Frank, your hero? He's a lowlife. And everybody here knows it. Corrupt from top to bottom.

*Citation needed!*

346 poundpod  Thu, Dec 1, 2011 12:11:21pm

Maybe I'm a little thick, but I thought the purpose of teaching science to children was to familiarize them with the scientific method, and the development of scientific thought, so they could perform experiments, understand how geology, medicine, chemistry, physics, biology, and the other scientific disciplines worked. This, so that they could understand the world as science explains it, and participate in activities which demand the scientific approach.
I am unable to recall a single invention, discovery, or advancement in chemistry, mathematics, physics, biology, medicine, geology, biochemistry, or computer science that was occasioned by an understanding of creationism or theology, or by reference to any holy book at all. The analogy is to teaching poetry in medical school to make cardiac surgeons perform better valve replacements. Sure, it sounds good and may comfort the soul, but it isn't going to stop a patient from bleeding out or arresting on the table.
We get the wrong answer from people like Bachmann because we ask the wrong question. We should ask her how any future scientist will be informed in his or her pursuit of science by further information about a speculative belief structure that has nothing to do with science. We do not teach science to raise atheists. We teach science to raise scientists and people who need to learn the link between cause and effect in the world we live in. Bachmann's zero-sum premise is that if you teach science, that diminishes faith. Many people of faith are able to reconcile that seeming conflict. She chooses to perpetuate the conflict because of her fundamentalism. She doesn't defend all religious faith, just her own brand.
I'm waiting for a journalist to call her on it, but that appears unlikely, since our dumbed-down media makes every conflict zero-sum. Sigh.


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