Yet Another Massive Face Plant by Breitbart “News”

Massive fail
Politics • Views: 70,943
Ace Breitbart “News” reporter Patrick Howley

OK, this is hilarious. The Breitbart “News” gang just can’t seem to avoid stepping on rakes lately, and today’s example is a hoot.

Ace Breitbart reporter Patrick Howley, a former employee of the equally ridiculous Daily Caller, has a breathless article implying some kind of nefarious collusion between consultant Liz Mair’s anti-Trump Super PAC “Make America Awesome” and the Carly Fiorina campaign. As usual, the angle here is obvious; the Breitbrats are trying to smear Donald Trump’s opponents by suggesting unethical behavior.

Howley’s big scoop is titled: Liz Mair’s Anti-Trump Super PAC Has Same Mailing Address as Carly Fiorina’s Campaign!

The same mailing address! This has to be proof of something, right? They’re in cahoots, people!

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Consultant Liz Mair’s controversial anti-Donald Trump super PAC shares a mailing address with Carly Fiorina’s presidential campaign, which just re-launched as a nonprofit.

[…]

According to the PAC’s most recent report, filed on February 29, 2016, the group listed only seven donors as having given $200 or more, including consultant Juleana Glover, a former George W. Bush and Bill Kristol employee who now works for Teneo Holdings, an advisory firm linked to Bill Clinton.

The PAC takes money in envelopes at a PO box in Alexandra, Virginia.

“If you would like to donate by mail, send checks to: Make America Awesome PO Box 26141 Alexandria, VA 22313,” the PAC’s website states.

The PAC’s Facebook page also lists its address as “PO Box 26141” in “Alexandria, Virginia.”

That PO box also happens to be the mailing address for Carly for America, which was Fiorina’s presidential campaign and just re-launched as a nonprofit organization.

You can almost hear Howley yelling “GOTCHA!”

But this ace reporter apparently forgot to actually, you know, report. Because a simple Google search reveals that “PO Box 26141” in “Alexandria, Virginia” is the mailing address of a firm named Election CFO that supplies campaign finance services to many different politicians running for office.

Election CFO provides a full-range of campaign finance services, tailored to your needs. Whether you need a full-service treasurer to make deposits and write checks, or just a professional to review compliance reports prepared by volunteers - Election CFO is ready to help.

Campaigns, Leadership PACs, Corporate and trade association PACS, Joint Fundraising Committees - Election CFO is ready to help.

Budgeting, credit card acceptance on your website, lockbox services at your bank, filing reports - Election CFO is ready to help.

So Patrick Howley’s big scoop turns out to be yet another face plant for the comical Breitbart gang. There’s nothing unethical or even unusual about these two organizations having the same PO Box address; it’s the address of a separate company that handles and accounts for their donations.

Right wing journalism for the win! I wonder if Howley will bother to retract this pathetic overheated fake story?

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268 comments
1
Decatur Deb  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:17:20pm

Yeah, but he’s got that dead-Breitpart soulless face down pat.

2
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:19:10pm

I love the smell of fresh fail in the afternoon.

3
Whack-A-Mole  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:21:30pm

OMG! SMOKING GUN! THE PROOFS!

That Breitbarters are idiots.

4
Testy Toad T  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:21:49pm
the Carly Fiorina campaign

the whatnow

5
b.d.  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:22:12pm

Maybe their fact checker quit last week too?

6
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:24:11pm

He may know and not care. Its only a fail if you think Breitbart cares about accurate news reporting, which of course they don’t. If it generates hits and outrage among Trumpers, its a success, without any regard for its veracity.

7
Nyet  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:25:10pm

Breitbart: Alfred E. Neuman of right-wing journamalism.

8
lawhawk  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:25:13pm

re: #5 b.d.

Maybe their fact checker quit last week too?

They had a fact-checker?

Those who check the facts have been sacked. Those who sacked have themselves been sacked.

The majestik møøse are in charge.

9
freetoken  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:25:25pm

I have vague memories of a similar issue the last election… when some noticed that certain candidates all were using the same PO Box… which turned out to be an elections management/consulting group.

10
b.d.  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:26:00pm

Even if the story was true, so what?

Surely the Carly for America folks have caught on that their job probably doesn’t have a great future ahead of them, why not grift in the ever expanding and deep pocketed Stop Trump bubble?

11
Nyet  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:26:54pm

re: #8 lawhawk

A møøse once bit Michelle Fields.

12
lawhawk  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:26:58pm
13
ObserverArt  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:34:58pm

re: #7 Nyet

Breitbart: Alfred E. Neuman of right-wing journamalism.

Don’t you be impugning the reputation of one Alfred E. Neuman.

He served an important purpose.

14
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:36:21pm

So. More RWNJ eating their own? Please continue.

15
Decatur Deb  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:41:52pm

re: #13 ObserverArt

Don’t you be impugning the reputation of one Alfred E. Neuman.

He served an important purpose.

But, sadly, he’s gone corporate.

16
jaunte  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:42:37pm

re: #12 lawhawk

Trying hard to twist my brain into understanding what Richard Grenell is talking about, but it just won’t warp far enough.

17
ObserverArt  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:44:43pm

re: #15 Decatur Deb

But, sadly, he’s gone corporate.

I have my memories of the great days past.

But yeah, I have heard it is nowhere near what it used to be.

18
Timothy Watson  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:45:26pm

re: #16 jaunte

Trying hard to twist my brain into understanding what Richard Grenell is talking about, but it just won’t warp far enough.

Don’t try squaring that circle, you’ll hit a divide by zero.

19
ipsos  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:47:31pm

re: #18 Timothy Watson

I don’t celebrate Easter; in fact, I’m busy starting to get ready for Passover in a few weeks. Um….does that now make me a Muslim? I’m confused!

20
Timothy Watson  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:48:38pm

re: #19 ipsos

I don’t celebrate Easter; in fact, I’m busy starting to get ready for Passover in a few weeks. Um….does that now make me a Muslim? I’m confused!

I’m wondering if he’s stupid enough that he completely forgot about Judaism or thought they also celebrated Easter.

21
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:48:51pm

re: #16 jaunte

Trying hard to twist my brain into understanding what Richard Grenell is talking about, but it just won’t warp far enough.

He’s complaining about her not saying “Christians.” Its like the war on Christmas.

22
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:49:25pm

re: #20 Timothy Watson

I’m wondering if he’s stupid enough that he completely forgot about Judaism or thought they also celebrated Easter.

He just doesn’t care.

23
jaunte  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:50:19pm

re: #21 Big Beautiful Door

That might leave out all the non-Christian Easterbunny Americans.

24
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:50:34pm

re: #18 Timothy Watson

Don’t try squaring that circle, you’ll hit a divide by zero.

Just multiply that by the square root of -2, take a right at the light and keep going straight until night.

RBS

25
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:50:35pm

Oh gee someone just set off fireworks.

26
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:50:50pm

re: #20 Timothy Watson

I’m wondering if he’s stupid enough that he completely forgot about Judaism or thought they also celebrated Easter.

You’re not his target audience.

27
jaunte  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:51:18pm

re: #25 PhillyPretzel

Another EbA tradition.

28
KGxvi  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:51:19pm

re: #9 freetoken

I have vague memories of a similar issue the last election… when some noticed that certain candidates all were using the same PO Box… which turned out to be an elections management/consulting group.

Corporations are generally required to have agents for service of process. There are companies that offer this service. As a matter of fact, if you search the Delaware corporate records, you find that a bunch of very big companies all use the same one.

29
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:52:41pm

EbA? Please define.

30
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:54:32pm

What’s funny is that even at FreeRepugnant they realized that this is a nothing burger. When FR won’t even get outraged (ok, they got outraged for a minute, but then calmed down) you’ve got nothing.

31
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:56:11pm

re: #29 PhillyPretzel

EbA? Please define.

Easterbunny Americans, I think.

32
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:56:31pm

re: #31 Eclectic Cyborg

Thanks.

33
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 4:59:47pm

From a collection of Peeps Dioramas.

RBS

34
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:02:03pm
35
Skip Intro  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:03:03pm

So this is what Howley groveled his way back to Breitbart for? Beats working, I guess.

36
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:07:23pm

re: #12 lawhawk

I’m not a Muslim, yet I don’t celebrate Easter. Where does that place me on his implied assumption that all non-Muslims celebrate Easter?

37
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:08:35pm

good grief…

38
Decatur Deb  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:09:03pm

re: #36 Le Lapin Tueur

I’m not a Muslim, yet I don’t celebrate Easter. Where does that place me on his implied assumption that all non-Muslims celebrate Easter?

You could be a fallen-away Chocolatarian.

39
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:10:32pm

re: #36 Le Lapin Tueur

I’m not a Muslim, yet I don’t celebrate Easter. Where does that place me on his implied assumption that all non-Muslims celebrate Easter?

You’re either Muslim or a lapsing Christian. Those are the only two states of the world.

40
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:10:33pm
41
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:10:35pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

I am waiting for the chocolate covered matzos. No bunnies here.

42
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:11:28pm
43
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:11:56pm
44
Decatur Deb  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:12:29pm

re: #41 PhillyPretzel

I am waiting for the chocolate covered matzos. No bunnies here.

Got a basket of Ghirardelli Squares this morning. No graven lapin issues.

45
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:12:53pm

WHO TO VOTE FOR FLOWCHART

46
Testy Toad T  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:13:15pm

When did the Party of Hey Government Butt Out Of My Life decide that they, personally, needed to have government wish them a happy religious holiday?

47
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:14:51pm

re: #5 b.d.

Maybe their fact checker quit last week too?

Any fact checking impulse they might have had died before Andrew did.

48
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:16:02pm

re: #36 Le Lapin Tueur

I’m not a Muslim, yet I don’t celebrate Easter. Where does that place me on his implied assumption that all non-Muslims celebrate Easter?

Here is your handy guide to help you work it out….

RBS

49
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:17:53pm

re: #48 Reality Based Steve

LMAO @ the Scientologist one.

50
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:19:30pm

re: #49 Eclectic Cyborg

LMAO @ the Scientologist one.

One of my middle son’s friends tried to claim he was a Scientologist. I told my son the kid’s family isn’t rich enough for him to be a Scientologist, and after pressing, the kid admitted he wasn’t one.

51
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:19:31pm

re: #48 Reality Based Steve

Here is your handy guide to help you work it out….

Embedded Image

RBS

I’ve seen a variation of that, which has “Matzah” instead of “hummus”

52
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:20:24pm

re: #39 Belafon

You’re either Muslim or a lapsing Christian. Those are the only two states of the world.

Heh. That does fit well in the rwnj’s binary-only mindset. And, in keeping with their ability to be consistently wrong; they’re wrong.

53
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:20:49pm

I am watching An Adventure in Time and Space again.

I saw something during it that I had to look up, sure enough, it actually happened.

54
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:21:19pm

re: #45 The Vicious Babushka

WHO TO VOTE FOR FLOWCHART

[Embedded content]

There really needs to be a line from “Who did it?” that says “privileged white people.” Where it goes can be debated.

55
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:21:21pm
56
Testy Toad T  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:21:22pm

re: #50 Belafon

One of my middle son’s friends tried to claim he was a Scientologist. I told my son the kid’s family isn’t rich enough for him to be a Scientologist, and after pressing, the kid admitted he wasn’t one.

When I was five or ten years old, I concluded that because my father was a scientist, and because we were christians, logically we were Christian Scientists.

Apparently it doesn’t quite work like that.

57
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:22:27pm

When Easter goes horribly horribly wrong.

RBS

58
Testy Toad T  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:23:29pm

re: #57 Reality Based Steve

It looks like a surface-broaching Graboid.

59
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:24:09pm

re: #56 Testy Toad T

When I was five or ten years old, I concluded that because my father was a scientist, and because we were christians, logically we were Christian Scientists.

Apparently it doesn’t quite work like that.

I remember the first time I passed a First Church of Christ, Scientist I was like: “What the fuck is that about?”

Turns out I still don’t really understand. Very odd denomination.

60
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:24:17pm

re: #41 PhillyPretzel

I am waiting for the chocolate covered matzos. No bunnies here.

I saw some (kosher for Passover) last year. My thought was that the Jewish people are clearly ready for legalized marijuana.

61
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:26:28pm

Stupidest hashtag today: #BernieMadeMeWhite

62
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:26:45pm

re: #41 PhillyPretzel

I am waiting for the chocolate covered matzos. No bunnies here.

Years ago in Israel I saw a Shalach Manot (Purim) gift basket in Meah Shearim that contained strictly kosher chocolates in the shape of Easter bunnies and Santa.

63
Testy Toad T  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:28:31pm

I find this an interesting statement, and I think I agree.

@NateSilver538 3h3 hours ago
If you’re acting in good faith, argue for or against the claim that “the media was a necessary but not sufficient condition in Trump’s rise”

.

As opposed to the claim “the media created Trump!” which is a strawman argument that few people are making.

.

Trump’s rise almost surely requires all 3 of these:
1. Failings of GOP voters (incl. racism)
2. Failings of GOP elites
3. Failings of media

64
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:28:48pm

Think if we celebrated Passover the way we celebrate Easter or Christmas. You could buy this thin plastic sheet you could hang from your door with passover markings on it.

65
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:28:56pm

re: #62 The Vicious Babushka

They were trying to expand their market.

66
Romantic Heretic  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:29:35pm

re: #5 b.d.

Maybe their fact checker quit last week too?

I suspect their fact checker actually found a fact and his or her RWNJ worldview imploded, along with their brain.

67
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:29:56pm

When Donald Trump has another grandchild wingnuts are all HURR HURR HE IS SO VIRILE HIS GENERATIONS LIVE ON!!!11!!! but when Hillary has a grandchild wingnuts are HURR HURR GRANNY IS TOO OLD & DECREPIT TO DO ANYTHING!!11!!!

68
Nyet  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:31:36pm

re: #48 Reality Based Steve

Was the diagram’s author under impression that Buddhism is a specifically Chinese religion?

69
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:32:05pm

re: #65 PhillyPretzel

They were trying to expand their market.

The kosher candy factory made chocolates for export under the name BETHLEHEM CANDY and sold the “min sheni” (stuff that didn’t pass the quality control) to the locals.

70
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:33:34pm

re: #68 Nyet

Was the diagram’s author under impression that Buddhism is a specifically Chinese religion?

I’ll acknowledge that it’s got flaws. For example, I LOVE both bacon and hummus. In fact, I’m wondering if they make a bacon hummus.

RBS

71
Joe Bacon  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:34:03pm

re: #57 Reality Based Steve

When Easter goes horribly horribly wrong.

Embedded Image

RBS

Holy NIGHT OF THE LEPUS, Batman!

Night of the Lepus (Best Clips!!)

72
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:34:30pm

re: #69 The Vicious Babushka

The kosher candy factory made chocolates for export under the name BETHLEHEM CANDY and sold the “min sheni” (stuff that didn’t pass the quality control) to the locals.

I’m going to go buy my chocolate bunnies tomorrow, get them at closeout prices. :)

RBS

73
Mattand  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:34:45pm

re: #5 b.d.

Maybe their fact checker quit last week too?

I see what you did there…

74
MsJ  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:36:15pm

re: #4 Testy Toad T

The Carly campaign

the whatnow

I’m more curious about Fiorina’s non-profit. Because if there’s anything to call bullshit on, Fiorina and non-profit together is it.

75
Decatur Deb  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:37:05pm

re: #74 MsJ

I’m more curious about Fiorina’s non-profit. Because if there’s anything to call bullshit on, Fiorina and non-profit together is it.

Didn’t she convert H-P into a non-profit?

76
Testy Toad T  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:38:09pm

re: #75 Decatur Deb

Didn’t she convert H-P into a non-profit?

Comment of the week.

77
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:41:11pm

awwwwwwww

78
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:42:28pm

The Rage Furby has to be going crazy without any social media platform to spew hatred to his tiny audience of deranged right wing goons. Excellent.

79
b.d.  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:53:15pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

The Rage Furby has to be going crazy without any social media platform to spew hatred to his tiny audience of deranged right wing goons. Excellent.

Rage Furby will be relegated to Short Wave Radio and to sticking hard copies of goatnews under car windshield wipers.

80
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:54:55pm

welp, this message just popped up on my tweetdeck:

81
No Country For Old Haters  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:56:48pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

The Rage Furby has to be going crazy without any social media platform to spew hatred to his tiny audience of deranged right wing goons. Excellent.

He thinks he has the right to have his insane voice amplified by other people’s businesses. You don’t need to be Lawhawk to see that he is mistaken.

82
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 5:57:21pm

re: #80 Backwoods_Sleuth

That does not look good.

83
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:07:28pm
84
Kragar  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:07:58pm

Back after Obama got elected the first time, and I saw still a Republican, I kept waiting for some Conservative voice to actually come up with some valid or reasonable attack or argument against him.

Instead, all we got was a nonstop bullshit barrage like this latest from Breitbart.

Nice to see they’re consistent.

85
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:11:04pm

re: #80 Backwoods_Sleuth

86
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:12:43pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

But I understand that there is an upgrade for it on OS/2

RBS

87
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:12:52pm

re: #80 Backwoods_Sleuth

welp, this message just popped up on my tweetdeck:

Embedded Image

Use the web-based Tweetdeck
tweetdeck.twitter.com

88
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:15:44pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

For us windows folks, supposedly there’s a different tweetdeck:
blog.twitter.com

I’m too tired to deal with it tonight, plus Walking Dead right now…

89
BeachDem  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:17:35pm

Andrea Mitchell, true to form, can’t go after Trump without taking shots at President Obama and Hillary Clinton.

Andrea Mitchell warned on Sunday GOP front-runner Donald Trump was hiding the fact that he was “completely uneducated about any part of the world.”

…And this was a week where he could have gone after President Obama, arguably,” Mitchell noted. “There’s a lot happening, and the president has some vulnerabilities, so does Hillary Clinton. But instead, he’s all over the lot.”

rawstory.com
Gah.

90
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:17:39pm

FUCK YOU BRAZIL

91
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:18:31pm

tornadoes in Kentucky tonight:

92
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:21:16pm

The NY Times Trump interview was a pile of burning garbage, but NYT is giving Donald a tongue bath because they’re sooo afraid he might Tweet bad shit at them.

93
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:22:47pm
94
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:25:05pm

re: #86 Reality Based Steve

But I understand that there is an upgrade for it on OS/2

RBS

Good thing I swallowed right before I got to that comment.

I miss OS/2, Warp & up, aside from the single thread keyboard handler. That could really mess everything up on what was otherwise the best commercial OS of it’s era. The Workplace Shell with REXX was really fun. Ah well…

95
Kragar  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:26:40pm
96
Feline Fearless Leader  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:27:12pm

Good weather, nice walks, and some good photos today. :)

It’s been a good visit to my brother’s place. Venison stew and homemade spanikopita for dinner.

I’ll have the squirrel I think today
97
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:28:56pm

re: #96 Feline Fearless Leader

Golden Eagle?

98
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:32:19pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

The Rage Furby has to be going crazy without any social media platform to spew hatred to his tiny audience of deranged right wing goons. Excellent.

The last post on his Instagram was 29 weeks ago. Phew.

99
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:32:27pm

Bernie Bros are Paulians 2.0.

100
Sherlock Hound  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:34:46pm

re: #99 SoundGuy 2016

I’m convinced they are the true privileged.

101
retired cynic  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:36:50pm

re: #100 Sherlock Hound

I used to really respect a blogger, since the 2008 campaign, and he is pushing a lot of anti-Hillary stuff: that she is rigging the state contests with money behind the scenes. I surely hope that isn’t correct!

102
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:37:18pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

The Rage Furby has to be going crazy without any social media platform to spew hatred to his tiny audience of deranged right wing goons. Excellent.

He’s not vomiting hate posts on his blog?

103
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:38:10pm

Mrs. FBW tells me Rob Reiner has announced he won’t film in North Carolina anymore. All I could think was,

“Nothing could get Reiner
To shoot films in Carolina
In the mo-o-orning!”

104
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:39:53pm

re: #101 retired cynic

I used to really respect a blogger, since the 2008 campaign, and he is pushing a lot of anti-Hillary stuff: that she is rigging the state contests with money behind the scenes. I surely hope that isn’t correct!

Here’s how I look at it: If the results of an election are reasonably close to the polls of that electorate, and you start crying ‘Fraud!’, you’re a moron and/or a stooge.

105
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:40:08pm

re: #91 Backwoods_Sleuth

tornadoes in Kentucky tonight:

[Embedded content]

Damn, that’s just up the road from me…. I can my house on the map (figuratively speaking)

RBS

106
CleverToad  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:42:20pm

re: #103 Blind Frog Belly White

Mrs. FBW tells me Rob Reiner has announced he won’t film in North Carolina anymore. All I could think was,

“Nothing could get Reiner
To shoot films in Carolina
In the mo-o-orning!”

*giggling*

107
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:42:36pm

re: #104 Blind Frog Belly White

Here’s how I look at it: If the results of an election are reasonably close to the polls of that electorate, and you start crying ‘Fraud!’, you’re a moron and/or a stooge.

I’m seeing berner tweets tonight frothing about how California is purging the voter rolls, getting ready to steal votes from Bernie.

geez……….

108
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:42:49pm

re: #91 Backwoods_Sleuth

re: #105 Reality Based Steve

When it is mentioned in a local weather map, it is bad.
forecast.weather.gov

109
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:44:13pm

What a weird election year
As I see it though, we are just seeing Reagan’s conservative scam play out to its logical conclusion: The nonsense has been piled so high that it is starting to collapse of its weight.

110
Eventual Carrion  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:45:51pm

re: #74 MsJ

I’m more curious about Fiorina’s non-profit. Because if there’s anything to call bullshit on, Fiorina and non-profit together is it.

Her companies just end up that way eventually.

111
fern01  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:45:51pm

re: #95 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Sometimes I would like the GOP to win - just to see how bad things can get - then I realize the world would probably not survive such an event.

112
retired cynic  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:45:58pm

re: #104 Blind Frog Belly White

Here’s how I look at it: If the results of an election are reasonably close to the polls of that electorate, if you start crying ‘Fraud!’, you’re a moron and a stooge.

I certainly felt there was hanky panky going on in 2000 in Florida and 2004 in Ohio, and I still don’t feel like a stooge. As far as the unskewed polls of 2008, those folks can be called stooges!

113
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:47:09pm

re: #108 PhillyPretzel

When it is mentioned in a local weather map, it is bad.
forecast.weather.gov

weird part, I’m not under any kind of a severe weather watch at all…. got some rains earlier and some coming in later, but nothing really bad.

RBS

114
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:49:27pm

re: #113 Reality Based Steve

You get a better picture with the Nat’l Maps.
wpc.ncep.noaa.gov

115
retired cynic  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:50:22pm

We were in a severe watch, and the radar indicated it was here a good chunk of the day, but nothing much happened. A good rain, that we needed.

116
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:50:23pm
117
b.d.  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:53:37pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Josh Marshall says it well to the children too:

118
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:54:13pm

re: #107 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m seeing berner tweets tonight frothing about how California is purging the voter rolls, getting ready to steal votes from Bernie.

geez……….

Right. They’re getting rid of all the privileged young white people.

119
calochortus  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:56:54pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

This is no game, folks. If you don’t get behind WHOEVER the Dem nominee is, the consequences will be disastrous for the US.

Shouldn’t that be Whomever?

(ducks and runs…)

120
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:57:12pm

I see by the primary calendar that the next time we get to hear about how Hillary’s wins are irrelevant and that Bernie still has momentum is on April 5, in Wisconsin.

121
Feline Fearless Leader  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:57:57pm

re: #97 PhillyPretzel

Golden Eagle?

Juvenile Bald Eagle

122
PhillyPretzel  Mar 27, 2016 • 6:59:07pm

re: #121 Feline Fearless Leader

Cool.

123
majii  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:00:42pm

re: #121 Feline Fearless Leader

You take beautiful pics. Keep ‘em coming. I look forward to seeing them everyday.

124
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:10:07pm
125
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:12:42pm

re: #120 withak

I see by the primary calendar that the next time we get to hear about how Hillary’s wins are irrelevant and that Bernie still has momentum is on April 5, in Wisconsin.

I’m curious which way that one will go. I haven’t seen any polling.

126
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:15:04pm

re: #125 Belafon

I’m curious which way that one will go. I haven’t seen any polling.

538 has Clinton winning 55/42, but it doesn’t look like there’s a ton of poll data.

It’s an open primary, FWIW.

127
BeachDem  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:16:11pm

re: #92 The Vicious Babushka

The NY Times Trump interview was a pile of burning garbage, but NYT is giving Donald a tongue bath because they’re sooo afraid he might Tweet bad shit at them.

[Embedded content]

Their cartoonist tells a much more accurate story:

Trump Foreign Policy
128
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:16:24pm
129
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:17:20pm

re: #127 BeachDem

The accuracy is great, especially the part where they have the US flag in Canada.

That is exactly how I think DT pictures things.

130
Barefoot Grin  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:17:34pm

Was flipping through channels tonight and stopped on America’s Funniest Videos, the show where people bounce off of trampolines and impale their nuts on fence posts; I said, “Trump supporters.” My wife said, “oh god, I just thought the same thing.”

131
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:18:14pm

Here we go again. In every election Glenn Greenwald deliberately ratfucks the Democratic Party while posing as a “progressive,” and people fall for it every election.

132
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:19:40pm

re: #88 Backwoods_Sleuth

For us windows folks, supposedly there’s a different tweetdeck:
blog.twitter.com

I’m too tired to deal with it tonight, plus Walking Dead right now…

Yeah, it’s the “web app interface” which is an improvement except for the part where you have to keep a browser window open specifically for that and deal with all the extra screen real estate lost by the browser tabs/buttons that you can’t hide.

So really no improvement at all.

133
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:20:59pm

re: #125 Belafon

I’m curious which way that one will go. I haven’t seen any polling.

I’m still trying to decide. I’d like to vote for Sanders simply because his economics are closer to my socialism than anyone else running. OTOH, I _REALLY_ don’t want to give the BernieBots any more encouragement. OTGH, I do want to help keep up at least some pressure towards the left on the Clinton Campaign/Administration.

I’ll probably end up voting for him as he’s probably the only time I’ll ever have a chance to vote for someone even slightly socialistic in a mainstream election and I’ll work for/vote for Hillary in the general election.

134
BeachDem  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:21:44pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Here we go again. In every election Glenn Greenwald deliberately ratfucks the Democratic Party while posing as a “progressive,” and people fall for it every election.

If a bird lands on Greenwald’s computer, there’ll be no stopping him and the bern!
/

135
calochortus  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:22:05pm

re: #126 withak

538 has Clinton winning 55/42, but it doesn’t look like there’s a ton of poll data.

It’s an open primary, FWIW.

And, I think it might be winner take all?

136
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:22:31pm

re: #132 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Yeah, it’s the “web app interface” which is an improvement except for the part where you have to keep a browser window open specifically for that and deal with all the extra screen real estate lost by the browser tabs/buttons that you can’t hide.

So really no improvement at all.

From a software engineering standpoint, I can understand wanting to move from standalone apps to web apps, but it must be frustrating for longtime power-users of the standalone apps. It’s incredibly hostile to the most prolific of the userbase.

But, when your users aren’t your real customers…

137
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:23:57pm

re: #135 calochortus

And, I think it might be winner take all?

I’m pretty sure all the Dem primaries/caucuses are proportional.

138
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:26:04pm

re: #136 withak

From a software engineering standpoint, I can understand the move from wanting to move from standalone apps to web apps, but it must be frustrating for longtime power-users of the standalone apps. It’s incredibly hostile to the most prolific of the userbase.

But, when your users aren’t your real customers…

Hum…. I could knock out a simple app, embed a browser window in it with no tabs / toolbars or anything else, let it resize to fit the size of the window. Maybe throw a couple of buttons at the bottom to refresh or other things you might want. Use a options settings to set the start up page, things like that.

I did a ‘tabbed version’ of IE LONG before microsoft did one back in the VB 6 days.

Think it would be helpful?

RBS

139
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:27:04pm

re: #133 William Lewis

I’m still trying to decide. I’d like to vote for Sanders simply because his economics are closer to my socialism than anyone else running. OTOH, I _REALLY_ don’t want to give the BernieBots any more encouragement. OTGH, I do want to help keep up at least some pressure towards the left on the Clinton Campaign/Administration.

I’ll probably end up voting for him as he’s probably the only time I’ll ever have a chance to vote for someone even slightly socialistic in a mainstream election and I’ll work for/vote for Hillary in the general election.

My theory is you vote for whoever you want in the primary and then vote for the Democrat in the general. It’s how the nomination process is supposed to work. I like Clinton, but I did not choose her based on her supporters, and even if you prefer Bernie, I wouldn’t let the fandom make your decision.

140
calochortus  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:29:13pm

re: #137 withak

I’m pretty sure all the Dem primaries/caucuses are proportional.

Maybe it’s just the GOP then. I don’t really recall.

141
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:29:16pm

Look at this shit.

The whitewashing of Bernie Sanders supporters

After Sanders’ win in the Hawaii Democractic caucus on Saturday, Hillary Clinton supporters tried to discredit the win by saying Hawaii is not a diverse state. Commentators took exception to that narrative using the hashtag, #BernieMadeMeWhite

Hawaii is diverse. But there’s very little black folk here. That’s the missing point.

142
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:30:44pm

re: #136 withak

From a software engineering standpoint, I can understand the move from wanting to move from standalone apps to web apps, but it must be frustrating for longtime power-users of the standalone apps. It’s incredibly hostile to the most prolific of the userbase.

But, when your users aren’t your real customers…

I understand why from a engineering standpoint.

I’m not a prolific Twitter user by far, but for me this just means I’m likely to see a lot of things slip through the cracks and it will decrease my Twitter usage substantially. Which. No skin off my back, I guess. Their website is unhelpful, and I’m not willing to support an app that doesn’t want me as a user.

143
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:31:46pm

re: #127 BeachDem

The American flag in that Cartoon apperas to be jammed into Canada lol.

EDIT: Already been mentioned it seems.

144
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:32:04pm

re: #141 SoundGuy 2016

Look at this shit.

The whitewashing of Bernie Sanders supporters

Hawaii is diverse. But there’s very little black folk here. That’s the missing point.

I think Clinton supporters should have left it at “Bernie had a good weekend.” Not everything needs a pro-Clinton spin.

145
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:32:22pm

re: #138 Reality Based Steve

Hum…. I could knock out a simple app, embed a browser window in it with no tabs / toolbars or anything else, let it resize to fit the size of the window. Maybe throw a couple of buttons at the bottom to refresh or other things you might want. Use a options settings to set the start up page, things like that.

I did a ‘tabbed version’ of IE LONG before microsoft did one back in the VB 6 days.

Think it would be helpful?

RBS

I’m perfectly happy with the basic web client for Twitter, but I’m no power-user, and I don’t have need for block lists, muting, or whatever else folks like Charles need to deal with trolls and serial harassers.

It seems like something like that may be useful, however, and I’m sure there will be a significant “market” for Firefox and Chrome plugins to improve the new web-based TweetDeck experience.

146
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:33:10pm

re: #143 Eclectic Cyborg

The American flag in that Cartoon apperas to be jammed into Canada lol.

If Canada had only listened to us at the end of the American Revolution. If Cuba had joined us after the Spanish-American war, there wouldn’t have been all these issues.

//

147
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:33:30pm

re: #142 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I understand why from a engineering standpoint.

I’m not a prolific Twitter user by far, but for me this just means I’m likely to see a lot of things slip through the cracks and it will decrease my Twitter usage substantially. Which. No skin off my back, I guess. Their website is unhelpful, and I’m not willing to support an app that doesn’t want me as a user.

Twitter has a userbase problem that can’t be solved solely by technology, and I don’t know if they’ve realized it yet.

148
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:33:43pm

So why does Bernie do so poorly with black people? Because he’s an old white guy?

149
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:34:21pm

re: #144 Belafon

That’s the thing. The counter spin is BS too.

150
scottslemmons  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:36:40pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I’ve got quite a few Bernie supporters among my Facebook friends — and several of them have said that they’ll support whoever the nominee is. Only one has said he’d vote for Trump. I really considered dropping him from my list — I really hate having absolute morons among my friends list — but I decided to keep him around so I can make fun of him for the next few years…

151
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:37:04pm

Hawaii is a very diverse state. If you’re talking white vs AA diversity, it’s not diverse at all: 2.5% AA.

So there’s some spin on spin. We’re on perpetual spin cycle folks. Gets tiring being on spin cycle all the time.

152
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:38:55pm

re: #150 scottslemmons

I’ve got quite a few Bernie supporters among my Facebook friends — and several of them have said that they’ll support whoever the nominee is. Only one has said he’d vote for Trump. I really considered dropping him from my list — I really hate having absolute morons among my friends list — but I decided to keep him around so I can make fun of him for the next few years…

I’ve resisted de-friending an old acquaintance for sort of the same reason — she’s working for the Cruz campaign.

It’s amazing how drastically people can change from their high school selves.

153
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:40:05pm

re: #150 scottslemmons

I’ve got quite a few Bernie supporters among my Facebook friends — and several of them have said that they’ll support whoever the nominee is. Only one has said he’d vote for Trump. I really considered dropping him from my list — I really hate having absolute morons among my friends list — but I decided to keep him around so I can make fun of him for the next few years…

I’m going to give them about 2 weeks after Clinton clinches the nomination, without superdelegates. After that my response will be “so your feelings are more important than women, minorities, gays, lesbians, transpeople, and the poor?”

If Sanders somehow wins, I’ll be like “my money and vote’s going to Bernie.”

154
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:41:08pm

re: #152 withak

There are several big Trump supporters where I work, one of them even has several of those “Make America Great Again!” bumper stickers plastered on his cubicle.

155
BeachDem  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:42:46pm

Probably the nicest column MoDo has ever written about Obama.

Oh, she got a few Maureenisms in, but she ends it with:

The president can go to a ballgame and still keep his eye on the ball.

nytimes.com
(he must have been nice to Maureen while they were in Cuba.)

156
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:42:53pm

re: #154 Eclectic Cyborg

There are several big Trump supporters where I work, one of them even has several of those “Make America Great Again!” bumper stickers plastered on his cubicle.

Jeez. Talk about your hostile work environment for anyone who happens to be non-white.

We’ll talk politics at my office, but if anyone were to put up political paraphernalia of any kind, I don’t think it would be welcome.

157
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:43:22pm

re: #148 Eclectic Cyborg

So why does Bernie do so poorly with black people? Because he’s an old white guy?

I don’t think the answer is quite as cut and dried as that.

I am not a black person, so interpret my results in that sense - but what I have read is that a lot of people seem to feel that he glosses over the fact that racism can exist independent of class issues and not everything can be traced back to Wall Street, along with a history of having participated in the civil rights movement in the 60s but then virtually disappearing since then until now, when he needs their votes and suddenly seems to care again - versus Hillary’s presence in the community, along with Bill, for decades.

That’s before we get to his choice of surrogates or the part where he is campaigning in part towards those dissatisfied with Obama’s record from the left side of things (which does not include the majority of African American voters, I believe) or the part where that voting bloc can be slightly more conservative on some issues than the general Democrat electorate.

I certainly welcome hearing other people’s interpretations as well.

158
scottslemmons  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:43:59pm

re: #152 withak

I’ve resisted de-friending an old acquaintance for sort of the same reason — she’s working for the Cruz campaign.

It’s amazing how drastically people can change from their high school selves.

I stopped trying to friend people from high school a while back. So many of them were painfully disappointing. My sister has a higher tolerance for that style of wingnuttery than I do, so I let her tell me when something interesting has happened to some of them…

159
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:44:26pm

re: #156 withak

Jeez. Talk about your hostile work environment for anyone who happens to be non-white.

We’ll talk politics at my office, but if anyone were to put up political paraphernalia of any kind, I don’t think it would be welcome.

He just put them up this past week. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s forced to take them down soon. We’ll see…

160
mmmirele  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:47:39pm

Mark Driscoll, the former head pastor of the now-imploded Mars Hill Church in Seattle, is trying to start a new work here in Scottsdale, called The Trinity Church. Today he had a prayer meeting at 5 pm. (I’m pretty sure it was to gauge interest among the hard core.) There were three of us out there to greet him at the Scottsdale site. My sign read:

to the point

One of Driscoll’s fan club took to Twitter to express his disappointment:

Here’s the flyer I would have given this guy had he had the guts to come up and talk to us. Only one person from the church did, and he gave us water bottles. (It was warm and dusty out there, as freeway construction is taking place not far away.)

When ex-lawyers make flyers

The Trinity Church didn’t like our presence, so two cruisers and an SUV from the Scottsdale PD were dispatched to take care of the dangerous three protesters (all of us in our 50s or older) standing on the sidewalk. They read us the rules of the road (stay on the sidewalk, not in the street or the church’s property) and then left.

161
BeenHereAwhile  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:48:34pm

re: #79 b.d.

Rage Furby will be relegated to Short Wave Radio and to sticking hard copies of goatnews under car windshield wipers.

He could always write a column for _The Thunderbolt_.

162
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:49:47pm

re: #157 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I don’t think the answer is quite as cut and dried as that.

It surely isn’t. I am not black nor do I have any black friends. All I know is the connections I’ve made on social media with black folk since Mike Brown’s death. I followed lots of black folk ever since and have sat back and just took it all in.

The one thing I know is I am not going to tell an AA citizen how to vote or who is best for them or the black community. I will absolutely vote for Hillary or Bernie.

That is all I can tell you right now.

163
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:52:38pm

re: #162 SoundGuy 2016

It surely isn’t. I am not black nor do I have any black friends. All I know is the connections I’ve made on social media with black folk since Mike Brown’s death. I followed lots of black fold ever since and have sat back and just took it all in.

The one thing I know is I am not going to tell an AA citizen how to vote or who is best for them or the black community. I will absolutely vote for Hillary or Bernie.

That is all I can tell you right now.

That’s pretty much where I am. I respect what minorities have done for the Democrat party and I am willing to listen to their concerns. I’m sure not going to lecture them about voting against their interests, and think the arrogance involved in doing so doesn’t reflect well on anyone.

My vote in November is an easy decision.

164
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:54:27pm

I think the best case scenario for November is Trump (and the GOP) getting absolutely obliterated in the general, maybe even losing the house and senate.

That should throw enough of a shock into the party that they might start being serious about getting their shit together.

165
stpaulbear  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:54:57pm

re: #163 klys (maker of Silmarils)

the Democrat party

::Ahh-hemm::

166
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:55:25pm

re: #165 stpaulbear

::Ahh-hemm::

Feel free to mentally add the ic if it makes you feel better.

167
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:55:50pm

re: #79 b.d.

Rage Furby will be relegated to Short Wave Radio and to sticking hard copies of goatnews under car windshield wipers.

Well, here’s his chance to get a cutting edge spirit duplicator to revive his empire with.

ebay.com

168
teleskiguy  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:56:07pm

Oy! This happened near me. Video not for the squeamish.

Skier caught in Gore Range 3/19/2016

169
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:56:18pm

re: #157 klys (maker of Silmarils)

But…

The problem traces back to American’s refusal to accept that class is really at the core of almost all our long term ills. Class is behind racism because class is the key to power - how to gain and maintain power of one group - “class” - over all others. The key to understanding that is the classic statement that the poor whites will never rebel against their real oppressors so long as they make them feel superior to the poor blacks who are equally oppressed.

American’s don’t like hearing that racism and the like are class based because of our fatal fantasy that class doesn’t matter - anyone can, with hard work, move from one class to other. And while it’s closer to true here than in many other places and time, that doesn’t mean that even if you get rich somehow you’ll have the power and prestige of the real higher classes.

Racism is a tool of class war by the rich against the poor as much as destroying unions and women’s health care. Trump’s campaign is a Marxist textbook example. We forget that at our peril.

Where Bernie falls down is only seeing the class war boogie man on Wall Street where it has relatively little impact on the day to day life of people in America. The classist attitudes on Fox Entertainment (Married With Children, et al) are far more damaging to the psyche of America than anything a hypothetical “Wall Street” could ever really do.

170
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:57:37pm

re: #169 William Lewis

If you want to go and lecture a black person as a white man about how all of racism is really related to class, go right ahead.

I’m not buying it.

171
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:57:53pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Feel free to mentally add the ic if it makes you feel better.

Well, the full name is the Democratic party. I hear Democrat party from a coworker who goes by his middle name. His first names is James and I really want to ask him if he’d be OK if I called him Jim-Bob.

172
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:58:09pm

re: #158 scottslemmons

That makes me think of this …

Bowling For Soup - High School Never Ends

173
stpaulbear  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:58:55pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Feel free to mentally add the ic if it makes you feel better.

‘The Democrat Party’ is what republicans/wingnuts say when they’re trying to insult or denigrate the Democratic party. It’s really not cool.

174
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:58:55pm

re: #158 scottslemmons

I stopped trying to friend people from high school a while back. So many of them were painfully disappointing. My sister has a higher tolerance for that style of wingnuttery than I do, so I let her tell me when something interesting has happened to some of them…

My wife is the same. She went to a much larger high school, but somehow still knew everyone (working on the yearbook will do that) and for some reason has remained “friends” on Facebook with people for no good reason whatsoever. A lot of them are conservative Christians, and many of them are rather vocal about it.

One of these geniuses posted a meme today that went like this: “To my Christian friends, Happy Easter! To my Jewish friends, Happy Passover! To my atheist friends, good luck.”

My pleas for a telling-off followed by a de-friending went unheeded.

175
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:59:05pm

Between Klys and Soundguy, that seems pretty accurate to me. Bernie’s message isn’t unappealing to “black voters” as a bloc, but given the increased visibility on law enforcement and structural racism in regards to the community, it is seen as lacking *when compared to Hillary*. Compared to any Republican, it’s a no brainer. I don’t know personally know any black person who would vote R over Bernie, but Hillary seems better poised to make inroads on the day to day physical threats encountered by minorities in America.

But BernieBros can fork the hell right off.

176
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 7:59:36pm

re: #160 mmmirele

Speaking as a christian, thank you for helping to keep the church clean and honest.

177
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:00:25pm

re: #169 William Lewis

I think you’ve got it backwards, and the evidence is in the White House. Obama is in the same class as virtually everyone else in the power structure in Washington. Yet the racism is obvious.

Racism and classism are both problems, but, to me, it’s the use of racism that keeps the class structure. If it weren’t for racism, working blacks and whites would be a larger force working toward the same goals.

178
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:01:49pm

re: #173 stpaulbear

‘The Democrat Party’ is what republicans/wingnuts say when they’re trying to insult or denigrate the Democratic party. It’s really not cool.

Apologies. I’d think it’s clear that I am neither a Republican nor a wingnut and that offense was not meant, but if that’s causing some then apparently it is time for me to bow out until a time where I am being more careful with my words.

179
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:02:01pm

re: #170 klys (maker of Silmarils)

If you want to go and lecture a black person as a white man about how all of racism is really related to class, go right ahead.

I’m not buying it.

Neither are black folk. This is the essence of Sander’s support in the AA community.

180
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:02:38pm

Does anyone think its sad that we are in the midst of an Election season and there is only ONE candidate in either major major party that is remotely palatable to black and minority voters?

181
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:03:39pm

re: #170 klys (maker of Silmarils)

If you want to go and lecture a black person as a white man about how all of racism is really related to class, go right ahead.

I’m not buying it.

Lecture? No. But if you want to get into the theory of what is going on - ala poly sci or economics classes - then you need to understand the dynamics of what is happening.

That said, the way forward isn’t determined by that theory. It is by making concrete and sometimes smaller steps than we’d like. The Obama administration does well with this - look to the consent decree accepted by the local government in Ferguson Missouri for one recent example.

182
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:05:18pm

re: #180 Eclectic Cyborg

Does anyone think its sad that we are in the midst of an Election season and there is only ONE candidate in either major major party that is remotely palatable to black and minority voters?

Is that really fair to say, though?

In a vacuum, I would guess that Sanders would be a very attractive candidate to minorities. At least he understands that racism is, you know, a problem that needs a solution. He speaks a lot about police brutality and judicial reform. It just so happens that his message on race may be too one-dimensional when compared to Clinton’s.

183
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:05:22pm

re: #180 Eclectic Cyborg

Does anyone think its sad that we are in the midst of an Election season and there is only ONE candidate in either major major party that is remotely palatable to black and minority voters?

Yes, it’s sad, but here’s the cool thing: 2016 is the first election where blacks have some serious power in a party. Yeah, they kind of had it in 2008 and 2012, but it was kind of seen as supporting the first black president. Now, though, there’s one major party that cannot ignore them.

And this is the thing that truly scares the Trump supporters.

184
calochortus  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:05:49pm

re: #174 withak

My wife is the same. She went to a much larger high school, but somehow still knew everyone (working on the yearbook will do that) and for some reason has remained “friends” on Facebook with people for no good reason whatsoever. A lot of them are conservative Christians, and many of them are rather vocal about it.

One of these geniuses posted a meme today that went like this: “To my Christian friends, Happy Easter! To my Jewish friends, Happy Passover! To my atheist friends, good luck.”

My pleas for a telling-off followed by a de-friending went unheeded.

Eh, as an atheist, I say “Why thank you, a little luck never hurt anyone.”

The clever poster probably doesn’t expect that sort of response.

185
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:06:53pm

re: #184 calochortus

That right there is why I have my golden rule of: “Never post stupid shit on Facebook”.

186
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:07:45pm

re: #184 calochortus

Eh, as an atheist, I say “Why thank you, a little luck never hurt anyone.”

The clever poster probably doesn’t expect that sort of response.

“Back at you” would also work, I think.

187
teleskiguy  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:07:48pm

re: #176 William Lewis

Speaking as a christian, thank you for helping to keep the church clean and honest.

Before it’s too late, here’s a song written by a drummer friend of mine who has toured as a professional musician and is now an ordained minister with his own church in the panhandle of Florida.

Happy Easter to all my Christian Lizard friends.

188
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:07:57pm

re: #169 William Lewis

So here is the thing. I agree that racism has been used as a tool to obfuscate the reality of class warfare in America since Reconstruction. Pitting lower class whites against minorities has been used to divide us and keep our eyes off of the shenanigans happening at the 1%.

The problem is that the racism came first. Labeling black people as 3/5th of a person was a political game played between people of equal class, all of who agreed that it was okay in a supposedly egalitarian society to just have people who weren’t equal, and that basis was either their genitals or their skin color. The structural racism that exists *today* doesn’t discriminate based on how much money the minority person has. While a black person with money can sidestep a lot of the frustrations of one without, they both have to deal with frustrations from the system based purely on their skin color. Bernie doesn’t have an answer for that, which is fine. But he didn’t get out early enough acknowledging that and instead chose to push the economic line. The results are very clear.

189
withak  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:08:57pm

re: #184 calochortus

Eh, as an atheist, I say “Why thank you, a little luck never hurt anyone.”

The clever poster probably doesn’t expect that sort of response.

Yeah, if it were an isolated incident, I’d take it in stride. But she’s got dozens of “friends” posting that kind of bullshit, as well as anti-LGBT/anti-woman screeds and all sorts of nonsense.

At least I don’t have to see it on my feed…

190
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:09:38pm

re: #177 Belafon

If it weren’t for racism, working blacks and whites would be a larger force working toward the same goals.

How is that different from what I said - that racism is used as a way to keep the opposition to the class - to the bosses - from coming together in any kind of solidarity?

Obama is not of the same class as the rest of the power elites. He’s manage to gain power despite his lower class (lower than the elite, not necessarily than others) origin in a rather “exception that proves the rule” way that I would say is a classic (sic) of American politics.

191
calochortus  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:10:47pm

re: #185 Eclectic Cyborg

re: #186 Belafon

Way too many (though by no means all) religious people make the mistake of thinking atheists are out there floating around in a sea of fear and doubt, mourning our lost faith. I never had any faith to lose, not having been raised with any religion.

192
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:16:19pm

re: #190 William Lewis

How is that different from what I said - that racism is used as a way to keep the opposition to the class - to the bosses - from coming together in any kind of solidarity?

Obama is not of the same class as the rest of the power elites. He’s manage to gain power despite his lower class (lower than the elite, not necessarily than others) origin in a rather “exception that proves the rule” way that I would say is a classic (sic) of American politics.

Because you placed the emphasis on class as the driving force. While the upper class can use it as a weapon, there are just too many incidents that race was the overwhelming factor. Take the men who went to Woolworth’s, for instance. Was there any economic reason to deny them service other than the threat of what other whites would do if they were served? Why would blacks need a book to tell them which gas stations were OK to go to, and which were not, considering the money’s the same?

Class wise, Obama is no different than McConnell, Boehner, and is better off than Ryan. Unless you want to try to say that class doesn’t have much to do with economics.

193
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:18:23pm

re: #188 Bass Reeves

I would argue that instead those coming up with the 3/5 “compromise” were one class that existed to keep it’s power over both the blacks enslaved in the south and the white farmers and craftsmen (who would soon form the basis of the Industrial Revolution) up north. There was very little different in the class needs of, for example, Adams and Jefferson and they both benefited by making the small property owning farmer feel superior to the urban poor and the rural enslaved.

You can see the same dynamic in Republican Rome as in revolutionary America - class uses every tool it can to gain and maintain power. The real problem with King George was that his taxes was taking Capital out of the colonies without giving them enough in return and that could not be tolerated by the wealthiest of our founding fathers.

194
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:20:17pm

re: #192 Belafon

Because you placed the emphasis on class as the driving force. While the upper class can use it as a weapon, there are just too many incidents that race was the overwhelming factor. Take the men who went to Woolworth’s, for instance. Was there any economic reason to deny them service other than the threat of what other whites would do if they were served? Why would blacks need a book to tell them which gas stations were OK to go to, and which were not, considering the money’s the same?

And how did it get that way? By one group setting another group against a third group. And those groups differ on the basis of power which is measured, ultimately by the money they can bring to bear.

195
Ubiq  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:26:00pm

re: #126 withak

538 has Clinton winning 55/42, but it doesn’t look like there’s a ton of poll data.

It’s an open primary, FWIW.

Given it’s demographics are ‘Michigan, only whiter and with more of a Western State vibe’, I think that (a) Bernie will make it closer than that polling suggests and that (b) if he can’t win it, it’s a pretty good sign he’s screwed.

And of course, the mantra - he needs to not only win the state, he needs to crush it by about 16 points to actually get traction on his delegate deficit. More, preferably, because he’s going to need to make some ground up for his asskicking coming up in New York.

196
majii  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:26:37pm

re: #163 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I am black, and although I’ve had a positive opinion of Sen. Sanders for years, since he began running for POTUS, there have been some things he’s said that have rubbed me the wrong way, one of them being his criticism of President Obama, particularly, questioning his leadership. I’m not so out-of touch and intolerant that I can’t deal with him being criticized, but the criticism should be realistic. When he questioned the president’s leadership, he ignored the constant obstruction from the GOP/TPers and the cowardly reticence of dems in Congress in standing up to the GOP/TPers. I got the sense that he was living in an alternate reality. Something else that turned me off about him was his saying that the major cause of racism is economic in nature. I’m solidly in the middle class, but I still have to deal with racism quite frequently. I’m not discriminated against by some because I’m poor. I’m discriminated against because I’m black. That’s it. I don’t think it’s one specific thing that accounts for Sanders’ weak support among Black Americans. I think it’s a whole host of issues. I can only speak for myself when I say that I like politicians who are grounded in the realities of the real world. Sen. Sanders has some great ideas, but what bothers me is whether he can actually get his policies enacted with the political climate in D.C. being what it is today. Above all else, I am a devout pragmatist. Idealism is fine, but I prefer results over idealism.

197
electrotek  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:26:50pm

Trying to come up with something witty as a response to this tweet:

198
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:28:36pm

re: #197 electrotek

Trying to come up with something witty as a response to this tweet:

[Embedded content]

“Easy. We’re not as stupid as you.”

But then, I’m on glass four of cheap red wine so that may be a bit too blunt.

199
whitebeach  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:28:50pm

re: #119 calochortus

Shouldn’t that be Whomever?

(ducks and runs…)

Actually, no. “Whoever” is correct here.

200
electrotek  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:31:15pm

re: #198 William Lewis

“Easy. We’re not as stupid as you.”

But then, I’m on glass four of cheap red wine so that may be a bit too blunt.

haha good one, but I was thinking of something that can hit the mark just as effectively when referring to fear of white Christians especially in light of Oregon.

201
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:32:10pm

Please note, I’m talking tonight from a nearly pure Marxist political economics theory perspective to try and give an understanding of some possible thought processes for Senator Sanders. I do believe he’s screwed up the whole issue since day one and being a Wonder Bread boy (white, soft & not good for anyone) from Northern Wisconsin I probably couldn’t do any better.

So take what I’ve said with that good old grain of salt but by the same token, if you get into it on any kind of academic level, these are the arguments you’ll find predominate.

202
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:32:45pm

re: #197 electrotek

Trying to come up with something witty as a response to this tweet:

[Embedded content]

Because Muslims tend not to carry guns?

203
electrotek  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:32:50pm
204
Jay C  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:33:14pm

re: #198 William Lewis

“Easy. We’re not as stupid as you.”

But then, I’m on glass four of cheap red wine so that may be a bit too blunt.

Au contraire, that riposte is politer than the original tweet deserves….

205
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:34:38pm

re: #194 William Lewis

And how did it get that way? By one group setting another group against a third group. And those groups differ on the basis of power which is measured, ultimately by the money they can bring to bear.

Why has that second group been duped into going after the third? Why is it, here in America, that the wealthy can tell the poor that things like SNAP should be cut because those “others” are getting it, without those people realizing that their benefits will be cut?

Another piece of American history. After WW2, due to the effects of the war and the Great Depression, we had a very progressive system in place for whites. Whites who had fought got a college education through the GI Bill. Unions ensured profits were being shared with workers. High taxes on upper income insured money and benefits were keeping the white middle class going strong.

And then blacks started demanding an equal share. They had fought in the war, but the GI Bill was specifically made to be run by the states so that southern ones could deny the benefits to blacks. Blacks weren’t in the unions; they weren’t let into a lot of them. Plus, the southern states prevented (and still do) unions specifically to keep blacks with less power. But, look at what happened when blacks started fighting for what they rightfully deserved: the racism was used to chip away at the programs that helped the middle class. And a lot of those middle class whites fell for it.

Plenty of whites today specifically, if not knowingly, hurt themselves economically in order to deny blacks the same advantages they have. This is why racism will have to be solved first, and why it is the most important issue in this country.

206
kirkspencer  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:34:54pm

re: #197 electrotek

Trying to come up with something witty as a response to this tweet:

[Embedded content]

By taking comfort in the fact they’re unlikely to be members of the KKK?
By taking comfort in the fact they’re unlikely to be militia members?

By remembering that neither the Declaration nor the Constitution say “except for them”?

207
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:35:24pm

re: #193 William Lewis

I would argue that instead those coming up with the 3/5 “compromise” were one class that existed to keep it’s power over both the blacks enslaved in the south and the white farmers and craftsmen (who would soon form the basis of the Industrial Revolution) up north. There was very little different in the class needs of, for example, Adams and Jefferson and they both benefited by making the small property owning farmer feel superior to the urban poor and the rural enslaved.

What is your reasoning in thinking that Adams and Jefferson needed to make the small property owing farmer feel superior to anyone? The small property owning farmer ALREADY owned property and WAS superior in that society to the urban poor. The racism as a tool of class warfare was the pitting of the urban and rural poor against the former slave population, and actually kicked into effect about a century later.

The 3/5 compromise was a purely political play among an oligarchy that literally didn’t care whether or not black people were ‘people’. It had nothing to do with class warfare. Jefferson wasn’t trying to make anyone feel superior, he was trying to pay less taxes.

208
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:36:08pm

re: #200 electrotek

haha good one, but I was thinking of something that can hit the mark just as effectively when referring to fear of white Christians especially in light of Oregon.

I guess I prefer to emphasize that the fear itself is anti-christian. To simply say “Leviticus 19:18 & Matthew 22:39” for example - “love your neighbor as yourself”.

209
Belafon  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:37:20pm

re: #201 William Lewis

Please note, I’m talking tonight from a nearly pure Marxist political economics theory perspective to try and give an understanding of some possible thought processes for Senator Sanders. I do believe he’s screwed up the whole issue since day one and being a Wonder Bread boy (white, soft & not good for anyone) from Northern Wisconsin I probably couldn’t do any better.

So take what I’ve said with that good old grain of salt but by the same token, if you get into it on any kind of academic level, these are the arguments you’ll find predominate.

Make sure you see this in #196 from majii:

I’m solidly in the middle class, but I still have to deal with racism quite frequently. I’m not discriminated against by some because I’m poor. I’m discriminated against because I’m black. That’s it.

210
electrotek  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:37:52pm
211
teleskiguy  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:38:42pm

re: #196 majii

I’m pickin’ up what you’re throwin’ down. It’s good to hear from you.

:)

212
kirkspencer  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:43:11pm

re: #210 electrotek

[Embedded content]

So reject all if one is bad? Ultimately that way lies isolation among the fields of paranoia.

The other extreme is the naivety of the fool - or innocent. If forced to an extreme, Deity of Choice grant I follow that path instead, for I shall never lack for friends even in the midst of my foes.

213
majii  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:44:11pm

re: #208 William Lewis

“I guess I prefer to emphasize that the fear itself is anti-christian.”

Thank you for this. Fear is anti-Christian. The fear-filled Christians I see turn me off. They are easily manipulated by any politician who tells them ___ is a threat to them. I don’t understand it. I’ve reached the conclusion that maybe they aren’t reading the same Bible that I read. Their fear-filled behavior is certainly not a testament to the idea that they actually believe what Christians are supposed to believe, imo. But, then, neither is their rejection of immigrants, refugees, LGBTQ Americans, atheists, etc. They never wonder how they can “spread the Word,” while turning everyone off to listening to anything they have to say on any issue. Hell, I’m a Christian, and I wouldn’t spend one second listening to anything they have to say because all of it is based on fear and hate. I avoid people like this like I would avoid the bubonic plague.

214
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:53:24pm

re: #213 majii

I’ve never actually counted it but I’d bet that the most common quote of Jesus in the bible is “do not be afraid”. Fear is against the love of God. It is, as Dune put it, “the mind killer”. When we refuse to fear and chose to love instead - that is when the kingdom of heaven exists here and now.

I’ve said before that if Christians want to really live by Christ’s teachings we have to live as if the atheists are right and there is no afterlife. We have to live for here and now - to make things as they should be by our actions. To live for another world “beyond” instead is the greatest sin of arrogance imaginable.

No heaven. No hell. Just good works.

215
retired cynic  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:54:38pm

re: #214 William Lewis

Imagine.

216
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:56:39pm

re: #207 Bass Reeves

What is your reasoning in thinking that Adams and Jefferson needed to make the small property owing farmer feel superior to anyone? The small property owning farmer ALREADY owned property and WAS superior in that society to the urban poor. The racism as a tool of class warfare was the pitting of the urban and rural poor against the former slave population, and actually kicked into effect about a century later.

The 3/5 compromise was a purely political play among an oligarchy that literally didn’t care whether or not black people were ‘people’. It had nothing to do with class warfare. Jefferson wasn’t trying to make anyone feel superior, he was trying to pay less taxes.

Actually, southerners were trying to pad their populations compared to the north by counting slaves as citizens — for purposes of representation in Congress. And the north naturally objected that slaves weren’t citizens, and shouldn’t be counted unless they were allowed to vote.

217
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:56:54pm

re: #215 retired cynic

Imagine.

Exactly. I have it, as a prayer, in my personal prayer book.

218
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:57:02pm
219
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 8:59:27pm

Hawaii is high up on my list of places to see before I die.

Also on my list:

Japan
Tuscany
Greece
Switzerland
Australia
Rio De Janiero

220
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:03:41pm

re: #201 William Lewis

Please note, I’m talking tonight from a nearly pure Marxist political economics theory perspective to try and give an understanding of some possible thought processes for Senator Sanders. I do believe he’s screwed up the whole issue since day one and being a Wonder Bread boy (white, soft & not good for anyone) from Northern Wisconsin I probably couldn’t do any better.

So take what I’ve said with that good old grain of salt but by the same token, if you get into it on any kind of academic level, these are the arguments you’ll find predominate.

I would say that “pure Marxist political economic theory” is a lot of what’s screwing him up. (That, and arrogance.) Marx put together his theories from observing nineteenth century Europe — North America just isn’t the same, and solutions that might work there won’t work here (and vice versa, of course).

As to the racism issue, even if it was consciously used by upper class whites to divide the lower classes against each other (don’t agree, but allow it for the sake of argument), it’s not necessary for anyone to reinforce it anymore — racism is wound into our fabric, and you (and I and Bernie) ignore that at our peril.

221
Lidane  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:06:48pm

If you’ve ever wondered what kind of jabbering fuckwits keep voting for GOHMERT! here’s an example:

Facebook Post

*facepalm*

222
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:08:39pm

re: #216 Snarknado!

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Was both, but when the argument was taxes, the South wanted the slaves to count for less, when the argument later turned to representation, the South wanted them to count for more. So I stand…kind of corrected? I dunno, does that invalidate my argument, that they agreed to have the slaves count for less than a full person, and that it had nothing to do with class warfare?

223
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:09:05pm

re: #219 Eclectic Cyborg

Hawaii is high up on my list of places to see before I die.

Also on my list:

Japan
Tuscany
Greece
Switzerland
Australia
Rio De Janiero

I can recommend Hawaii (unless you like hot, humid weather, go in the fall, not between about April and August). The next item on my list that I’ll be able to cross off is Macchu Picchu early next year. (Just did the Panama Canal, which was amazing.)

224
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:10:58pm

re: #222 Bass Reeves

It’s a messy mess? As he also pointed out,

“it’s not necessary for anyone to reinforce it anymore — racism is wound into our fabric, and you (and I and Bernie) ignore that at our peril.”

which is where he and I very firmly agree. I do believe how we got here is important but not as important as how we get away from here.

225
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:11:10pm

re: #222 Bass Reeves

Was both, but when the argument was taxes, the South wanted the slaves to count for less, when the argument later turned to representation, the South wanted them to count for more. So I stand…kind of corrected? I dunno, does that invalidate my argument, that they agreed to have the slaves count for less than a full person, and that it had nothing to do with class warfare?

I don’t think so. Padding the numbers for purposes of increasing votes in Congress sounds like interstate rivalry to me, not class warfare.

226
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:15:52pm

re: #196 majii

Something else that turned me off about him was his saying that the major cause of racism is economic in nature. I’m solidly in the middle class, but I still have to deal with racism quite frequently. I’m not discriminated against by some because I’m poor. I’m discriminated against because I’m black.

When I heard Sanders say this, any chance of my voting for him immediately disappeared. As a white person who lived in the South for a great deal of the past half-century, I witnessed systemic racism on an all-too frequent basis - and that racism had absolutely nothing to do with economic standing.

A glaring example - about six years ago, my father passed away, and part of the process that followed was the inevitable going through all of the documents for the estate left behind. One of these documents was the deed to his house, last financed in 1992.

Right there in black and white was the following deed restriction entered by the bank:

“Said Premises shall never be sold, leased, or conveyed and shall never be occupied by any person or persons other than the Caucasian or White race, except as servants to White occupants”

Anyone claiming that this discrimination was economic is a complete fool.

227
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:20:08pm

re: #223 Snarknado!

I want to see Macchu Picchu too. I’m a HUGE ancient history buff. Seeing the ruins at Chichen Itza when I was younger is a life highlight of mine. I hope to see the Pyramids and the Terra Cotta warriors someday too.

228
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:24:09pm

re: #227 Eclectic Cyborg

I want to see Macchu Picchu too. I’m a HUGE ancient history buff. Seeing the ruins at Chichen Itza when I was younger is a life highlight of mine. I hope to see the Pyramids and the Terra Cotta warriors someday too.

My wife and I had the great fortune to visit Chichen Itza about a month before they stopped allowing tourists to climb the pyramids. To stand there and look out towards the green of the jungle and the openings where the cenotes are? Or look up into the sky where they stargazed? Those stay with me more than the ball courts or the rest.

229
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:24:23pm

re: #227 Eclectic Cyborg

I saw Chichen Itza when I was very young, too. I saw the terra cotta warriors exhibition that was shown in San Francisco (which included some of the figures up close), so seeing them in situ isn’t quite so high on my list. I’d love to see the Great Wall, though. Maybe in a few years….

On the nature side, I’ve wanted to see New Zealand since I watched Hercules, The Legendary Journeys. (if you know anything about ancient Greece, I can recommend it as one of the funniest shows ever produced. Not intentionally, you understand….)

230
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:25:46pm

re: #228 William Lewis

My wife and I had the great fortune to visit Chichen Itza about a month before they stopped allowing tourists to climb the pyramids. To stand there and look out towards the green of the jungle and the openings where the cenotes are? Or look up into the sky where they stargazed? Those stay with me more than the ball courts or the rest.

I remember climbing pyramids too — and stopping halfway on the tallest because of vertigo, but I don’t really remember the view from the top (hey, I was 11 years old!).

231
teleskiguy  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:25:51pm

re: #219 Eclectic Cyborg

I want to see and experience the Himalayas before I check out.

232
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:26:57pm

re: #224 William Lewis

(She, actually.)

233
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:27:39pm

re: #226 Bill and Opus for 2016!

But if it comes to that, you gotta vote for him in the general. So do I.

234
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:27:42pm

re: #228 William Lewis

I was able to make it before then too. You are right, astounding experience to be up at the top.

235
Charles Johnson  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:27:44pm
236
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:28:10pm

re: #231 teleskiguy

I want to see and experience the Himalayas before I check out.

How could I ever have guessed? :P

237
Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:28:19pm

re: #148 Eclectic Cyborg

So why does Bernie do so poorly with black people? Because he’s an old white guy?

One point I haven’t seen mentioned here is that if we gamble on Bernie, and it fails, Black people are the ones that are going to suffer the most and the most directly. For a lot of the more privileged Bernie supporters, the negative effects of a Republican presidency are somewhat abstracted. For a lot of Black voters, they are very concrete, not hypothetical future damages, but things they have personally witnessed or suffered to some degree.

238
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:29:08pm

re: #232 Snarknado!

(She, actually.)

Apologizes. I knew that previously so I’m especially abashed.

239
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:29:32pm

re: #238 William Lewis

No biggie.

240
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:29:39pm

Although I must say, one of the creepiest parts of Chichen Itza, aside from the ball field where they played a game in which the captain of the losing team got KILLED, was a sacrificial pit we saw. Below the waters its still filled with the bones of the Maya.

241
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:30:20pm

re: #231 teleskiguy

I want to see ski and experience the Himalayas before I check out.

FTFY

242
teleskiguy  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:30:25pm

re: #235 Charles Johnson

Some older gentleman brought his great dane into the store today. My co-worker came up to me in the back shop and said “Some guy just brought his horse into the store.”

T’was a very big great dane I saw today. He was also a very nice dog who loved to be rubbed all over the place.

243
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:33:14pm

re: #220 Snarknado!

As to the racism issue, even if it was consciously used by upper class whites to divide the lower classes against each other (don’t agree, but allow it for the sake of argument), it’s not necessary for anyone to reinforce it anymore — racism is wound into our fabric, and you (and I and Bernie) ignore that at our peril.

For the first half of your statement, I refer you to the southern strategy as the most visible example. For the second, it *is* still being reinforced, and claiming that it’s all class based is one of the ways to perpetuate the system. I’m pretty dang tired of looking sideways at police and having to act the supplicant in situations where I actually have the dominant economic position. I don’t think Hillary can fix it, but I think she has a better grasp of the situation as a whole than Bernie, and again BOTH of them are miles ahead of the Republicans, whose rhetoric would seem eager to erase all of the gains of the Civil Rights movement.

244
teleskiguy  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:33:55pm

re: #241 Snarknado!

Someone here knows me deep down!

245
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:34:25pm

re: #243 Bass Reeves

Republicans, whose rhetoric would seem eager to erase all of the gains of the Civil Rights movement.

I actually wonder if the election of a Republican President could potentially trigger a second Civil Rights Movement…

246
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:35:37pm

re: #233 Snarknado!

But if it comes to that, you gotta vote for him in the general. So do I.

Agreed. There is a Grand Canyon-sized gap of difference between Sanders’ myopia regarding racism, and the Republican Party’s main candidates (and core constituency’s) open embrace of white supremacy.

247
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:36:09pm

re: #245 Eclectic Cyborg

Erm…it would probably be less effective and a lot more violent. The supreme court with Scalia made great strides in gutting the VRA, and isn’t the new thing in red states allowing discrimination again?

248
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:38:26pm

re: #247 Bass Reeves

Erm…it would probably be less effective and a lot more violent. The supreme court with Scalia made great strides in gutting the VRA, and isn’t the new thing in red states allowing discrimination again?

You know I don’t think the discrimation ever went away, it just became less overt.

The laws may say one thing, but the reality is VERY different.

I’m sure part of it comes from my ongoing studies into the racial history of Mississippi (Boy, you talk about some depressing reading…) but you really don’t have to try hard to see how racism still pervades the south like humidity on an August afternoon.

249
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:39:50pm

re: #245 Eclectic Cyborg

I actually wonder if the election of a Republican President could potentially trigger a second Civil Rights Movement…

Not as such. That’s like the BernieBros who think it’s ok to elect Trump because he’d bring the “Rebolution!!!!!11ty!!!!” or some shit like that. We hit rock bottom in 1930 -32 and didn’t get a revolution. We had veterans trying to get their bonuses early run out of Washington by the US Army under m*********ing MacArthur and we still didn’t get a revolution.

We could get the literal reincarnation of Hitler in the White House (and no, Donald is at worst a Benito wanna be) and American’s would still be to lazy to revolt without a Pearl Harbor moment somehow.

250
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:40:27pm

re: #243 Bass Reeves

For the first half of your statement, I refer you to the southern strategy as the most visible example. For the second, it *is* still being reinforced, and claiming that it’s all class based is one of the ways to perpetuate the system. I’m pretty dang tired of looking sideways at police and having to act the supplicant in situations where I actually have the dominant economic position. I don’t think Hillary can fix it, but I think she has a better grasp of the situation as a whole than Bernie, and again BOTH of them are miles ahead of the Republicans, whose rhetoric would seem eager to erase all of the gains of the Civil Rights movement.

For the first half of my statement, I was talking about history — I don’t believe that anyone consciously decided to inculcate racism into white non-slaveholders in the south — it grew up by its own self. The southern strategy, IMO, isn’t reinforcing anything, but playing on and taking advantage of something that already exists.

On the Hillary, Bernie, ………………………………………………Republicans ranking, I agree entirely.

251
retired cynic  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:41:38pm

re: #249 William Lewis

I saw that The Trump, in the NYT interview, said what we needed now were Patton and MacArthur, and no more wimpy generals.

252
Shimshon  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:41:59pm

re: #5 b.d.

Maybe their fact checker quit last week too?

Fact checker at a right wing media organization must be the loneliest job ever.

“Hey guy this is blatantly wrong”

“shut up Bob”

“sigh”

253
Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:42:53pm

re: #221 Lidane

If you’ve ever wondered what kind of jabbering fuckwits keep voting for GOHMERT! here’s an example:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

The comments are full of the common clay of the new west, shrieking about how Obama needs to be arrested because taking the codes is treason.

Truly, the Republican base’s credulousness knows no bounds.

254
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:42:55pm

re: #249 William Lewis

Not as such. That’s like the BernieBros who think it’s ok to elect Trump because he’d bring the “Rebolution!!!!!11ty!!!!” or some shit like that. We hit rock bottom in 1930 -32 and didn’t get a revolution. We had veterans trying to get their bonuses early run out of Washington by the US Army under m*********ing MacArthur and we still didn’t get a revolution.

We could get the literal reincarnation of Hitler in the White House (and no, Donald is at worst a Benito wanna be) and American’s would still be to lazy to revolt without a Pearl Harbor moment somehow.

Of course, if Roosevelt hadn’t been elected, and Done Something about the Depression, a real revolution might well have followed.

255
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:45:57pm

re: #251 retired cynic

I saw that The Trump, in the NYT interview, said what we needed now were Patton and MacArthur, and no more wimpy generals.

I about puked when I read that. The two most over rated scum to ever wear the Army uniform… Would that I could go back in time and have MacArthur courts marshaled for losing the Philippines and give all of Patton’s stars to LtC Abrahms.

256
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:46:10pm

re: #227 Eclectic Cyborg

I want to see Macchu Picchu too. I’m a HUGE ancient history buff. Seeing the ruins at Chichen Itza when I was younger is a life highlight of mine. I hope to see the Pyramids and the Terra Cotta warriors someday too.

I visited the warriors last summer. While I had seen photos of them before, standing in a huge quonset-style building as large as a soccer stadium, with row upon row of terra cotta figures — each one unique in appearance — was breath taking. And that’s not even all of them. There are some sections of the tomb that either are not excavated yet or are not open to the public yet. Also, some of the figures have not survived the millennia and are too busted up for display.

Pro-tip: Don’t go in the summertime, like I did, unless you want to melt. A building that size is not easily cooled, especially with thousands of tourists inside.

257
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:48:25pm

re: #254 Snarknado!

Of course, if Roosevelt hadn’t been elected, and Done Something about the Depression, a real revolution might well have followed.

I tend to doubt it. The Army follows orders in America; our democracy’s greatest strength and weakness. Of course there are also those who say that was the _real_ reason for the National Firearms Act that “took away” military grade firearms from the people.

258
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:50:50pm

re: #257 William Lewis

I tend to doubt it. The Army follows orders in America; our democracy’s greatest strength and weakness. Of course there are also those who say that was the _real_ reason for the National Firearms Act that “took away” military grade firearms from the people.

Yeah, I hate hypotheticals like that too — there’s no way to test what Might Have Happened. But every army follows orders right up the the moment it doesn’t.

259
William Lewis  Mar 27, 2016 • 9:59:56pm

re: #258 Snarknado!

But every army follows orders right up the the moment it doesn’t.

Yeah, but ours has stayed out of it in cases far messier than when other nation’s armies have committed treason/coups.

I think the history of Washington staring down the Newburgh Conspiracy in March 1783 makes the US Army not want to cross a bright line so drawn that hard and early in our history.

en.wikipedia.org

260
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:00:51pm

re: #248 Eclectic Cyborg

That is why state’s rights is such a horrible argument, and libertarian ideology is shit. When the state government allows discrimination, usually the only recourse is to the federal level.

re: #249 William Lewis

Eclectic said a civil rights movement, not a Berniebro revolution. I’d say the current movement has been building for almost 2 years now? Where do you all think the trajectory of the BLM movement is going to go with Trump/Cruz in the White House and another 5-4 conservative Supreme Court?

re: #250 Snarknado!

I agree if you are focusing on pre-Civil War racial sentiments. However, I didn’t say the southern strategy was the first, just the easiest to recognize. There is a lot to unpack in the period directly before the Civil War and in the Reconstruction era, but one of the earliest examples I can remember offhand is negatively associating black people with watermelon.

theatlantic.com

261
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:02:37pm

re: #256 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

While I had seen photos of them before, standing in a huge quonset-style building as large as a soccer stadium, with row upon row of terra cotta figures — each one unique in appearance — was breath taking.

After staring at pages and pages of reproductions, I had the impression that they mixed and matched a number of features (eyes, eyebrows, ears, moustaches, etc.), leaving them with many different figures, but not with each one unique. (see, for example the picture on this page Not that that detracts from the achievement.

But you’ve seen more of them than I have, of course.

262
Shimshon  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:03:11pm

re: #48 Reality Based Steve

Here is your handy guide to help you work it out….

[Embedded content]

RBS

Atheism is a religion after all! Checkmix liberados.

263
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:06:20pm

re: #221 Lidane

If you’ve ever wondered what kind of jabbering fuckwits keep voting for GOHMERT! here’s an example:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

SMH. You would think, maybe, the article further down the page about Obama endorsing Trump would have been a give-a-way that it’s a humor site. As it is, they had to get to comment 61 before somebody pointed out it’s a joke. All that indignation sputtered out for nothing.

RBS

264
Reality Based Steve  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:07:19pm

re: #261 Snarknado!

After staring at pages and pages of reproductions, I had the impression that they mixed and matched a number of features (eyes, eyebrows, ears, moustaches, etc.), leaving them with many different figures, but not with each one unique. (see, for example the picture on this page Not that that detracts from the achievement.

But you’ve seen more of them than I have, of course.

so, it’s like an ancient Mr. Potato Head?

RBS

265
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:09:18pm

re: #264 Reality Based Steve

so, it’s like an ancient Mr. Potato Head?

RBS

I wouldn’t have put it that way, but maybe so. With more variations and considerably more artistry. (It would be very hard and even more time consuming than what’s there to create thousands of individual sculptures.)

266
Snarknado!  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:13:24pm

re: #260 Bass Reeves

Not sure what watermelon has to do with conscious inculcation vs. “it just grew.” Especially since it was low class before it was specifically racist.

267
Bass Reeves  Mar 27, 2016 • 10:47:02pm

re: #266 Snarknado!

Maybe a signal crossing, we weren’t talking about origins of racism, we were talking examples of racism used as a tool for class warfare. To me that means banking on the racism that already exists to some degree, and using it to divide the lower class. If you don’t like the example of the watermelon, how about anti-miscegenation laws?

268
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 27, 2016 • 11:04:29pm

re: #261 Snarknado!

After staring at pages and pages of reproductions, I had the impression that they mixed and matched a number of features (eyes, eyebrows, ears, moustaches, etc.), leaving them with many different figures, but not with each one unique. (see, for example the picture on this page Not that that detracts from the achievement.

But you’ve seen more of them than I have, of course.

Well, I haven’t seen *all* of them, so it’s possible they mixed and matched features, but each head was cast or sculpted as one piece. So, it’s not like each head was assembled like Mr Potato Head. The legend goes that each warrior duplicated a living member of the emperor’s army, but of course we have no way to verify that conjecture.

It is true, however, that the bodies (torsos, legs, arms, weapons) were mostly mixed and matched, since an army would presumably be in uniform and using standard equipment. Officers got special treatment, however, so the bodies would have more differences.


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