What if Humans Are NOT Earth’s First Civilization? (The Silurian Hypothesis)

Science • Views: 12,989

Don’t worry, PBS Space Time isn’t going all “Chariots of the Gods” on us. This is an interesting exploration of a very speculative hypothesis.

We’re almost certainly the first technological civilization on Earth. But what if we’re not? We are. Although how sure are we, really? The Silurian hypothesis, which asks whether pre-human industrial civilizations might have existed.

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Hosted by Matt O’Dowd
Written by Christopher Pollack & Matt O’Dowd
Post Production by Leonardo Scholzer, Yago Ballarini & Stephanie Faria
Directed by Andrew Kornhaber
Associate Producer: Bahar Gholipour
Executive Producers: Eric Brown & Andrew Kornhaber
Executive in Charge for PBS: Maribel Lopez
Director of Programming for PBS: Gabrielle Ewing
Assistant Director of Programming for PBS: John Campbell

Spacetime is produced by Kornhaber Brown for PBS Digital Studios.
This program is produced by Kornhaber Brown, which is solely responsible for its content.
© 2023 PBS. All rights reserved.

End Credits Music by J.R.S. Schattenberg: youtube.com

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130 comments
1
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:04:14am

That’s straight from Doctor Who.

2
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:06:04am

They should have used Madam Vastra for their Silurian.

3
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:06:59am

re: #270 Dave In Austin

It’s a start.

See my long rant from the other day:

littlegreenfootballs.com

4
Captain Ron  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:11:19am
5
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:12:46am

Mastodon

6
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:15:52am

re: #285 Vicious Babushka

It’s important to keep in mind that the issues around climate change are so large that people are pretty immune to news bits about the topic.

And I still come across the never ending stream of denialism on, for example, YouTube, both in videos posted and in comments to serious videos on the topic.

Long story short: I was planning a long Page here on the latest entries from Dr. James Hansen, but sort of ran out of steam as I was collecting link.

Said entries by Hansen emphasize over and over that the warming coming is worse than the IPCC ‘s most likely-scenario.

The IPCC is actually quite conservative, contrary to the rantings of right-wing know-nothings about the IPCC.

Hansen proposes that recent cuts in aerosol emissions from ship traffic reveals that even at today’s CO2 levels we can expect warming greater than 2C.

And he further proposes that this will take us back to a climate before the permanent ice sheet in Antarctica.

This is all besides issues such as the methane clathrate problem which is linked in the Mastodon post you shared.

Not everyone accepts Hansen’s assertions, but the huge jump up in temps this year support his claim, as the cuts in ship aerosols happened only recently.

7
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:18:20am

Oh, the wingnuts will LOVE this idea.

/

8
lawhawk  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:19:29am

DC appellate court limits Trump gag order, while reiterating the 1A has its limits, and Trump’s testing those boundaries.

9
Charles Johnson  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:22:32am

re: #8 lawhawk

DC appellate court limits Trump gag order, while reiterating the 1A has its limits, and Trump’s testing those boundaries.

[Embedded content]

This is completely nuts.

Trump is going to get someone killed with his deliberately violent rhetoric and our justice system is pitifully unable to do anything about it.

10
Charles Johnson  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:23:28am

Maybe when the inevitable violent attacks happen by Trump’s rabid followers, they’ll fucking wake up and smell the incitement.

11
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:24:15am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

WaPo ping just confirmed it.

12
Charles Johnson  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:26:23am

They’re giving Trump free rein to attack Jack Smith. It’s just a matter of time until Trump cultists try to murder him.

13
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:26:45am

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Maybe when the inevitable violent attacks happen by Trump’s rabid followers, they’ll fucking wake up and smell the incitement.

When you have a massive problem at the societal level, it generally does take a lot of death to wake people up, and even then, many people will stay in denial regarding the problem rather than face the fact that they’re part of the problem.

14
jaunte  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:26:58am

DC Circuit: “Well, they’re not here to hurt me.”

15
Nerdy Fish  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:28:45am

re: #8 lawhawk

DC appellate court limits Trump gag order, while reiterating the 1A has its limits, and Trump’s testing those boundaries.

[Embedded content]

In general, I’m sympathetic to the idea of restricting gag orders. I still maintain that the justice system and/or our legal code has not yet caught up to the reality of the Internet, our modern connected society, and the outsize influence demagogues such as Trump have over millions of people - some of whom may be delusional and deranged. Mark my words: Someone will die over this. It may be a deranged Trumper, or it may be someone close to the court, but this decision will have consequences.

16
Nerdy Fish  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:28:54am

re: #14 jaunte

DC Circuit: “Well, they’re not here to hurt me.”

Yet.

17
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:31:31am

Mastodon

this is the African reporter that kept disrupting briefings by shouting over everyone else because he felt he was being ignored

18
Captain Ron  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:31:46am
19
Charles Johnson  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:33:23am
“Surely he is has a thick enough skin,” Pillard said of Smith, a former international war crimes prosecutor.

Let’s hope his skin is thick enough to stop bullets.

20
Nerdy Fish  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:35:50am

re: #18 Captain Ron

[Embedded content]

Are they still bitter about that? Jesus Christ, guys. You lost. Get off the cross, we need the wood.

21
Nerdy Fish  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:36:19am

God forbid government actually do something to help people, especially those who aren’t about to die without it.

22
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:36:32am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

This is completely nuts.

Trump is going to get someone killed with his deliberately violent rhetoric and our justice system is pitifully unable to do anything about it.

He’s just going to pound the table and try to wear down every Judge he has to deal with.

23
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:37:07am

Shane MacGowan’s family dance to Fairytale of New York during funeral

bbc.com

24
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:37:20am

re: #13 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

When you have a massive problem at the societal level, it generally does take a lot of death to wake people up, and even then, many people will stay in denial regarding the problem rather than face the fact that they’re part of the problem.

See also: Covid-19 pandemic

25
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:37:47am

re: #19 Charles Johnson

Let’s hope his skin is thick enough to stop bullets.

I’d expect the courts to put Trump in a cell immediately if a member of his cult kills a prosecutor.

26
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:39:20am

re: #25 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

I’d expect the courts to put Trump in a cell immediately if a member of his cult kills a prosecutor.

You expect too much, methinks.

27
Nerdy Fish  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:41:33am

re: #25 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

I’d expect the courts to put Trump in a cell immediately if a member of his cult kills a prosecutor.

They won’t do that, because the case law for incitement doesn’t fit his MO. It’ll have to get litigated all the way up to SCOTUS to prove that what he said was directly related to the actions that occurred, and that’s also a big hole the government can drive a bus through to railroad people who aren’t as guilty as Trump is.

28
wrenchwench  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:45:40am

re: #13 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

When you have a massive problem at the societal level, it generally does take a lot of death to wake people up, and even then, many people will stay in denial regarding the problem rather than face the fact that they’re part of the problem.

Whether a number of deaths wakes anybody up depends on who is dead and where.

After tens of thousands of deaths in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, then suddenly ‘4 dead in Ohio’ started to change things. Then 11 days later, 2 more dead and 11 wounded at Jackson State meant less.

29
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:50:12am

Mastodon

30
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:54:59am
31
dat_said  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:57:22am

Correction. He’s billing $877,500. Whether he gets paid is TBD.

32
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 11:57:34am

re: #30 Belafon

[Embedded content]


Fake Christian Carter doesn’t even know how to be a Christian Nationalist.

He’s so much better a Christian than any Republican is.

33
jeffreyw  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:00:36pm

Mastodon

34
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:02:36pm

Mastodon

35
wrenchwench  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:06:35pm

Looks like Presta when he was young.

Mastodon

36
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:10:14pm

Hank speaking the truth about his cancer treatment and those who hated on him for getting proper medical treatment:

Did “Natural” Cancer Treatments Save My Life?

..

37
jaunte  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:15:54pm

re: #31 dat_said

“…Donald Trump exaggerating the size of his Manhattan penthouse on financial filings was merely the type of “error” that is “inevitable” in accounting, an NYU professor testifying in the former president’s defense claimed at his civil fraud trial Thursday.

Eli Bartov — a professor of accounting at New York University — said that when the former president tripled the square footage of his Trump Tower triplex on annual statements of financial condition it was just an “error in calculation.”“

38
jaunte  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:17:29pm

Lying is “inevitable” among the wealthy. Just lie back and enjoy it.

39
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:18:08pm

re: #37 jaunte

Which is why you usually have several sets of eyes on any important calculations.

40
dat_said  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:18:28pm

re: #38 jaunte

Lying is “inevitable” among the wealthy. Just lie back and enjoy it.

These rules and regulations against lying are anti-business /s

41
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:22:57pm

re: #37 jaunte

“…Donald Trump exaggerating the size of his Manhattan penthouse on financial filings was merely the type of “error” that is “inevitable” in accounting, an NYU professor testifying in the former president’s defense claimed at his civil fraud trial Thursday.

Eli Bartov — a professor of accounting at New York University — said that when the former president tripled the square footage of his Trump Tower triplex on annual statements of financial condition it was just an “error in calculation.”“

I want to be there when one of his students demands an A because the types of errors they made were inevitable and due to a simple error in calculation.

Of course the key here is that Trump did not make a simple error but changed the valuation of the same property in order to gain a benefit - high for loands and low for taxes. That suggests mens rea.

42
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:25:34pm

re: #37 jaunte

“…Donald Trump exaggerating the size of his Manhattan penthouse on financial filings was merely the type of “error” that is “inevitable” in accounting, an NYU professor testifying in the former president’s defense claimed at his civil fraud trial Thursday.

Eli Bartov — a professor of accounting at New York University — said that when the former president tripled the square footage of his Trump Tower triplex on annual statements of financial condition it was just an “error in calculation.”“

The stupidity defense. It worked for Don Jr. when he conspired with Russians.

43
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:26:44pm

There was an interesting paper a few years ago that looked at the amount of tax fraud in a country vs the degree the economy was based on cash. The less cash meant that banks and others had eyes on the transactions had much lower fraud. What a surprise. People ar emore honest when they know they are being watched. By the way, the US had the highest fraud rates and the largest cash economy.

44
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:34:32pm

Missouri GOP Would Charge Women Getting Abortions

So, the state would be able to put to death a woman who had an abortion. Nonsensical. Plus it now means that any woman who has a miscarriage could likely be investigated by a prosecutor. Woe betide any woman who has a miscarriage in private without witnesses of the process.Or even going to the ER and having some intern claim she initiated the miscarriage.

45
Vicious Babushka  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:41:00pm

Mastodon

46
Vicious Babushka  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:41:30pm

Mastodon

47
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:42:02pm

re: #45 Vicious Babushka

A very happy Chanukah and Shabbat.

48
Dangerman  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:45:06pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

This is completely nuts.

Trump is going to get someone killed with his deliberately violent rhetoric and our justice system is pitifully unable unwilling to do anything about it.

49
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:46:54pm

re: #37 jaunte

“…Donald Trump exaggerating the size of his Manhattan penthouse on financial filings was merely the type of “error” that is “inevitable” in accounting, an NYU professor testifying in the former president’s defense claimed at his civil fraud trial Thursday.

Eli Bartov — a professor of accounting at New York University — said that when the former president tripled the square footage of his Trump Tower triplex on annual statements of financial condition it was just an “error in calculation.”“

Bullshit.

My brother in law taught accounting at St. Vincent’s College for 50 years and if any one of his students tried this Tom would have Tongue-Fu’ed them in class.

50
Dangerman  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:49:20pm

re: #25 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

I’d expect the courts to put Trump in a cell immediately if a member of his cult kills a prosecutor.

His argument will be you can’t tie me to what some rando does

Not even if the rando expilicitly said it was cause of me.

I can’t control what randos say or think.

,…………
Wait for it

51
Dangerman  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:50:31pm

re: #31 dat_said

[Embedded content]

Correction. He’s billing $877,500. Whether he gets paid is TBD.

His testimony was absurd

52
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:51:54pm

HuffPo is one of few outlets where she doesn’t look 100% white in the photo heading articles.

Selecting this photo, seen at most articles on the subject, feels racist to me. Click through to the article to see what this beautiful lady really looked like when not overexposed into whiteness.

Ellen Holly, the first Black actor to star in a soap opera with a lead role on “One Life To Live,” died Wednesday at a hospital in the Bronx, New York. She was 92.

Her publicist confirmed her death, saying she died in her sleep.

Holly began her career on stage, debuting on Broadway in 1956. She went on to work with James Earl Jones, Jack Lemmon and Cicely Tyson.

Her hit role on “One Life to Live” came after she published a column in The New York Times in 1968 describing her difficulties finding roles as a Black woman with lighter skin, backed by the “turbulent and racially divisive 1960s.” A producer chose the actress for the role of Carla Gray after she read the piece, titled “How Black Do You Have To Be.”

Holly would go on to star on the soap for more than a decade, from 1968 to 1980 and again from 1983 to 1985. Her storylines included a love triangle between her character and two doctors, one white and one Black. The soap became a popular feature on daytime television, and other programs, including “All My Children” and “General Hospital,” later featured major storylines involving Black characters.

Ellen Holly, America’s First Black Soap Opera Star, Dead At 92 (HuffPo)

53
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:53:01pm

re: #50 Dangerman

His argument will be you can’t tie me to what some rando does

Not even if the rando expilicitly said it was cause of me.

I can’t control what randos say or think.

,…………
Wait for it

The Bill O’Reilly defense.

54
Dangerman  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:53:20pm

re: #49 Joe Bacon ✅

Bullshit.

My brother in law taught accounting at St. Vincent’s College for 50 years and if any one of his students tried this Tom would have Tongue-Fu’ed them in class.

Every cpa knows this guy is full of shit

55
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:54:54pm

re: #54 Dangerman

Every cpa knows this guy is full of shit

It’s all for the rubes who at least pretend to believe that Trump is persecuted. It’s not a way to win a court case.

56
Dangerman  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:56:17pm
57
A Cranky One  Dec 8, 2023 • 12:59:51pm

58
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:02:14pm

re: #57 A Cranky One

[Embedded content]

The pain while you die will feel like an eternity, but I’d choose another unpleasant experience to slow down time rather than taking it that far.

59
A Cranky One  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:07:42pm

61
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:11:52pm

re: #59 A Cranky One

[Embedded content]

“Googling old high school classmates?” No I just came across the Facebook page for my high school class yesterday completely by random. Not because I wanted to see if some of them were still alive.

62
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:19:18pm

63
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:19:22pm

re: #56 Dangerman

👀 Rep. Bob Good, a DeSantis supporter, told me this last month: “I challenge you or anyone else to find my criticism of Donald Trump.”

Appears Good was secretly recorded doing just that:

His criticism is basically Trump isn’t vile enough for true believers, but DeSantis certainly is.

64
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:22:01pm

re: #56 Dangerman

[Embedded content]

Blacks for Trump are white, and Good for DeSantis is bad. There’s no truth in labeling when Republicans are involved.

66
KGxvi  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:29:15pm
We’re almost certainly the first technological civilization on Earth. But what if we’re not? We are. Although how sure are we, really? The Silurian hypothesis, which asks whether pre-human industrial civilizations might have existed.

something would have shown up in the archeological record by now.

67
Vicious Babushka  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:31:57pm

OK gotta log off now, Shabbat Hanukkah comes in EARLY!

I will think of you all while I am enjoying a doughnut.

68
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:34:23pm

re: #66 KGxvi

something would have shown up in the archeological record by now.

How do you explain these folks then?
/

69
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:34:50pm

just in case Jonestown might trigger

bFpkTnNOUkF2QUhzajU1MVowd2NMWjlYZGdWM2krRUJaZTN5czZvUFBzaUZJR3lMbEF3SXE1N21oU0g4dUxJZlF3N2QyWUlkRHZIaVhFODFLMzRaYThQZHhXWnhySGRKbTUyaHovcWVNUzlKMDlNcmRWVVlqNVFwOFR5TjBNRXc6OrZxNqwa92d1zkZJYFUaNHg=

70
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:36:32pm

At least in Edge, hidden Mastodon posts stay hidden.

71
Semper Fi  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:39:06pm

For me, it’s age 90 today. LGF and lizard talk has been a complete pleasure for many years now. Gonna keep lurking.
Thank you, Charles.

72
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:41:35pm

re: #71 Semper Fi

For me, it’s age 90 today. LGF and lizard talk has been a complete pleasure for many years now. Gonna keep lurking.
Thank you, Charles.

Wow. You’ll have seen so much change in that time. Do we have any more senior members here?

73
A Cranky One  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:43:15pm

re: #69 Backwoods Sleuth

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

74
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:43:37pm

re: #66 KGxvi

something would have shown up in the archeological record by now.

Hard to see any civilization arising without going through an extractive period. We have extracted huge amounts of minerals and dispersed them around the world, obviously destroying the natural deposits found in the Earth. In particular, large banded iron deposits laid down in Precambrian times, which serve as the major deposits used in mining iron ore, have not shown any incident of earlier mining. They are easily extractable so any earlier civilizaton should have mined them, leavoing a lot less for us.

And rarer mineral deposits (ie gold) do not appear to have been touched by any earlier civilizations before humans found them. So, if there were earlier civilizations, they had to arise without really using much of the Earth’s natural resources. IMHO.

75
William Lewis  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:51:27pm

Bought some Christmas presents today after the payroll snafu was figured out.

Dad & step mom: framed 16x20 print of this image that she likes:

Son:
Moderately high end video card, new computer case that can fit it and a power supply that can run it.

Me:
Copy of Cyberpunk 2077 (now that it’s been mostly debugged) & Xplane11 plus a (used on ebay) video card that can run them decently without being silly expensive.

Ho Ho Ho ;)

76
Randall Gross  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:53:39pm

We just used our UN Security council veto against a cease fire resolution in Gaza.

77
Semper Fi  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:55:19pm

re: #25 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

I’d expect the courts to put Trump in a cell immediately if a member of his cult kills a prosecutor.

I also would expect him to be jailed…but I don’t think it will happen. But I do expect someone will lose their life.

78
Randall Gross  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:56:36pm

79
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 1:59:06pm

re: #78 Randall Gross

Stop, or I’ll shout “Stop” again.

Was the UN going to send in a peacekeeping force?

80
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:00:53pm

re: #77 Semper Fi

I also would expect him to be jailed…but I don’t think it will happen. But I do expect someone will lose their life.

People already have died because of that maniac’s lies. Covid and Jan 6th come to mind.
We just let him keep walking around and lying to idiots in his creepy Mussolini voice.

81
William Lewis  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:03:27pm

For those into such things: his is a still fairly recent RX6600 whereas mine is a relatively elderly RX580 card. However, used it’s an 8gb video card for $40 😈 and it’s still a heck of a lot better than the Vega 11 graphics on my Ryzen 5 2400G.

More fun to consider than how we crippled the possibility of a real UN in 1945…

82
Nojay UK  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:05:01pm

re: #74 silverdolphin

Hard to see any civilization arising without going through an extractive period.

Harry Harrison’s “West of Eden” books posited a descendant species of the dinosaurs (no Chicxulub impactor 65 million years ago) which used purely biological engineering to maintain their civilisation for millions of years without resource extraction. A predecessor species like that would have left little in the way of a record in geological strata and possibly no record in the fossil history.

83
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:05:55pm

re: #76 Randall Gross

We just used our UN Security council veto against a cease fire resolution in Gaza.

This really upsets me.

84
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:06:49pm

Mastodon

85
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:08:17pm

Any idea why the U.S. vetoed the resolution?

86
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:08:36pm

Mastodon

87
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:10:50pm

re: #85 Eclectic Cyborg

Any idea why the U.S. vetoed the resolution?

U.S. Deputy Ambassador Robert Wood said halting military action would allow Hamas to continue to rule Gaza and “only plant the seeds for the next war.”

pbs.org

88
A Cranky One  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:11:27pm

89
Semper Fi  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:12:00pm

re: #75 William Lewis

Bought some Christmas presents today after the payroll snafu was figured out.

Dad & step mom: framed 16x20 print of this image that she likes:

[Embedded content]

Son:
Moderately high end video card, new computer case that can fit it and a power supply that can run it.

Me:
Copy of Cyberpunk 2077 (now that it’s been mostly debugged) & Xplane11 plus a (used on ebay) video card that can run them decently without being silly expensive.

Ho Ho Ho ;)

Such a good shot of that old red barn…nice,.

90
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:15:46pm

Mastodon

91
Semper Fi  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:15:51pm

re: #80 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

People already have died because of that maniac’s lies. Covid and Jan 6th come to mind.
We just let him keep walking around and lying to idiots in his creepy Mussolini voice.

I expect it will continue until the idiots stop being idiots.

92
A Cranky One  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:17:07pm

re: #91 Semper Fi

I expect it will continue until the idiots stop being idiots.

Idiots: To infinity and beyond!

93
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:20:23pm

re: #75 William Lewis

Bought some Christmas presents today after the payroll snafu was figured out.

Dad & step mom: framed 16x20 print of this image that she likes:

[Embedded content]

Son:
Moderately high end video card, new computer case that can fit it and a power supply that can run it.

Me:
Copy of Cyberpunk 2077 (now that it’s been mostly debugged) & Xplane11 plus a (used on ebay) video card that can run them decently without being silly expensive.

Ho Ho Ho ;)

Cyberpunk was playable on PC on day 1. The only issue I had was that sometimes the character from a previous call would still be present overlaying the new character calling. They’d move through each other, which was creepy, but not a game-breaker.

It was an absolute shitshow on last generation consoles. They should not have released for those consoles at that time.

It’s been rebalanced and had some nice DLC added since then and is a much better game today.

94
HRH Stanley Sea  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:21:08pm

re: #71 Semper Fi

SEMPER FI!!

95
KGxvi  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:21:47pm

re: #68 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

How do you explain these folks then?
/

[Embedded content]

60 years of retconning?

96
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:25:33pm

re: #82 Nojay UK

Harry Harrison’s “West of Eden” books posited a descendant species of the dinosaurs (no Chicxulub impactor 65 million years ago) which used purely biological engineering to maintain their civilisation for millions of years without resource extraction. A predecessor species like that would have left little in the way of a record in geological strata and possibly no record in the fossil history.

Perhaps but harnessing life for tools would seem so much harder than having a rock. The primitive forms of any such species would likely find early success using natural resources than trying to modify living organisms. That is, the efforts to modify a living organism to make it a tool would fall victim to a hard rock, or a bronze arrowhead. Living things are complex. A rock is simple.

Reversing entropy is hard enough for extractive processes of living organisms. Relying on life in order to survive would seem to be even harder and a less eficient use of the external energy hitting the planet.

But I guess it could happen ;-) If life is going to reverse entropy who knows what is possible.

Great series and looking for a good TV version. Deathworld is a favorite also (although the fourth season of The Expanse comes close.).

97
Ace Rothstein  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:30:05pm

re: #37 jaunte

I owed $25,000 in income tax for the year but paid zero. It was just an “error in calculation.”

98
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:30:56pm

re: #95 KGxvi

60 years of retconning?

I do like that a Silurian can be good-looking now. The originals were extremely goofy. The old show did a lot better with the Sea Devils.

99
Randall Gross  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:32:01pm

Mastodon
Largest grossing concert film ever.

100
Ace Rothstein  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:33:56pm

re: #99 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Largest grossing concert film ever.

Tour, I think.

101
Ace Rothstein  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:35:23pm

“The Eras Tour smashes the previous record, held by Elton John for his Farewell Yellow Brick Road Tour. Sir Elton’s five-year goodbye took in a nassive $939 million haul. But it took him 328 shows, as opposed to Swift’s 60.”

Dayum, Mrs. Kelce rich as fuck.

102
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:36:07pm

re: #68 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

What about these:

103
Nojay UK  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:37:13pm

re: #96 silverdolphin

Perhaps but harnessing life for tools would seem so much harder than having a rock.

The Yilane species were not “uncle harry in a fur coat” aliens so beloved of SF at the time and since (replace fur coat with rubber forehead for Amerian SF TV shows). Reproduction for them is fraught with difficulty, something akin to spiders or salmon so their populations remained small. Harry was picking the brains of an old acquaintance of mine, the reproductive biologist Jack Cohen who provided a lot of the plausibility for the biology that made the Yilane work as a species which could survive for tens of millions of years as an intelligent race without being mechanically inclined.

104
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:37:16pm

re: #101 Ace Rothstein

“The Eras Tour smashes the previous record, held by Elton John for his Farewell Yellow Brick Road Tour. Sir Elton’s five-year goodbye took in a nassive $939 million haul. But it took him 328 shows, as opposed to Swift’s 60.”

Dayum, Mrs. Kelce rich as fuck.

I’m pretty sure Mr. Swift is enjoying the ride.

105
goddamnedfrank  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:41:34pm

Really just incredibly fucked up that we’re allowing the most flagrant anti-semites in our society become the arbiters of what is and is not anti-semitism:

106
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:41:34pm

re: #102 Belafon

What about these:

[Embedded content]

I loved that show when I was 11.

107
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:43:11pm

re: #99 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Largest grossing concert film ever.

Go woke, go broke, they said.

108
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:43:22pm

re: #106 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

I loved that show when I was 11.

I did too and I will never forgive Will Farrell for fucking up the movie.

109
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:50:35pm

WaPo ping: EU landmark AI Bill

110
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:52:08pm

re: #103 Nojay UK

Harrison really did a great job with the idea and the narrative. He should be better remembered today. Only Soylent Green (Make Room! Make Room! made it to a mass audience.

111
gocart mozart  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:52:21pm
112
Randall Gross  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:54:58pm

How the USS Nimitz was converted to a car ferry for their rehome to Bremerton
facebook.com

113
HRH Stanley Sea  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:57:35pm

The going after colleges & student protests is so lame, weak & old. Done before wah wah.

Stefanik is a scammer. Greenblatt is fucking up by propping her up.

Read the popehat comments.

114
Belafon  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:58:19pm

re: #110 silverdolphin

Harrison really did a great job with the idea and the narrative. He should be better remembered today. Only Soylent Green (Make Room! Make Room! made it to a mass audience.

The Stainless Steel Rat books were popular. Im surprised those have been used for some kind of series.

115
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:58:45pm

re: #112 Randall Gross

How the USS Nimitz was converted to a car ferry for their rehome to Bremerton
facebook.com

Did someone call for a car fairy?
116
Randall Gross  Dec 8, 2023 • 2:59:53pm

re: #100 Ace Rothstein

Tour, I think.

re: #100 Ace Rothstein

Tour, I think.

How about film and tour? The Film crossed the “Highest Grossing” concert film line weekend before last iirc.
I also like this snippet:

And it’s not just tickets.

Pollstar estimates Swift’s The Eras Tour merchandise revenue at an additional $200 million for all 60 dates. And since Swift was smart enough to set up merchandise trailers outside of venues on non-show days, that total is even higher when one includes non-concert day revenue.

117
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:02:50pm

Mastodon

118
HRH Stanley Sea  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:04:47pm

119
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:07:29pm

Mastodon

120
Dangerman  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:08:55pm

sorry to all y’all in the northern climes and elsewhere

it’s 77 degrees in our house and im freezing
dangerlizards like it up at 80-81

no we wont put the heat on

but i’m wearing lots of clothes right now

121
Randall Gross  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:11:37pm

Oh yeah, been meaning to bring this up for a while:

If you have Apple TV and are not watching “Slow Horses” then you are really missing a good show.

122
goddamnedfrank  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:14:25pm

re: #113 HRH Stanley Sea

The going after colleges & student protests is so lame, weak & old. Done before wah wah.

Stefanik is a scammer. Greenblatt is fucking up by propping her up.

Read the popehat comments.

The key thing we should always keep in mind is the nexus to power. College students can have myopic, even extremely shitty antisemitic opinions but they generally have little to no power. Congress people like Stefanik and billionaires like Elon Musk have immense power to effect their antisemitic agenda, and Greenblatt kowtows to the them because he doesn’t give a shit about what’s good for Jews in toto, only about what advances Israel’s interests geopolitically. He’s all too happy to demonize anti-Zionist Jewish orgs and synagogs because flattening Judaism and conflating it with one particular ethno-nationalist project is his entire raison d’être.

123
Charles Johnson  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:23:28pm

re: #66 KGxvi

something would have shown up in the archeological record by now.

I’ve always thought so, too, but one thing I learned from this video I hadn’t considered before: geologists estimate the entire surface crust of the Earth is replaced every 500 million years due to subduction and tectonic/seismic activity. No matter what structures or technology this hypothetical civilization might have possessed, there could very well be no easily detectable traces of their existence left in the physical record.

124
wrenchwench  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:27:47pm

Barry Commoner

That’s me giving the side eye behind him. We’re in somebody’s living room in Portland, OR, where I was involved with the Citizen’s Party. For which I now give myself the side eye. Mid 1980s (he ran for president in 1980).

125
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:29:50pm

re: #123 Charles Johnson

I’ve always thought so, too, but one thing I learned from this video I hadn’t considered before: geologists estimate the entire surface crust of the Earth is replaced every 500 million years due to subduction and tectonic/seismic activity. No matter what structures or technology this hypothetical civilization might have possessed, there could very well be no easily detectable traces of their existence left in the physical record.

I’d expect a large facility on the moon from any civilization that got even a little more advanced than we are. It would take a long time to destroy any sign of that. Even the little stuff we put on the moon will take a long time to be indetectable.

126
silverdolphin  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:33:50pm

re: #114 Belafon

The Stainless Steel Rat books were popular. Im surprised those have been used for some kind of series.

And of course, Bill the Galactic Hero. Just foud out that Alex Cox (Repo Man) had a student movie made based on this novel that got good reviews. Seems like it is on Vimeo. Have to check it out.

127
Semper Fi  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:35:48pm

re: #120 Dangerman

sorry to all y’all in the northern climes and elsewhere

it’s 77 degrees in our house and im freezing
dangerlizards like it up at 80-81

no we wont put the heat on

but i’m wearing lots of clothes right now

Layering is the thing to do and at night slip between flannel sheets and comforter.

128
DodgerFan1988  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:36:12pm

re: #117 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]


Probably Ryan’s best film.

129
Decatur Deb  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:39:08pm

re: #123 Charles Johnson

I’ve always thought so, too, but one thing I learned from this video I hadn’t considered before: geologists estimate the entire surface crust of the Earth is replaced every 500 million years due to subduction and tectonic/seismic activity. No matter what structures or technology this hypothetical civilization might have possessed, there could very well be no easily detectable traces of their existence left in the physical record.

That’s like the reincarnation joke. If the Silurians lived here and left no record, it’s the same as one of us coming back with no memory. Don’t make no never-mind.

130
wrenchwench  Dec 8, 2023 • 3:39:12pm

re: #71 Semper Fi

For me, it’s age 90 today. LGF and lizard talk has been a complete pleasure for many years now. Gonna keep lurking.
Thank you, Charles.

Happy Birthday. And at least 10 more! Good to have you here.


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