Suspect Arrested in Tiller Murder

US News • Views: 9,165

KWCH in Kansas reports that the suspected murderer of abortion doctor George Tiller has been arrested near the town of Gardner.

Eyewitness News has confirmed the suspect in the shooting of Dr. George Tiller is in custody in the Kansas City area. Wichita police say the man was arrested near Gardner, KS at around 2:00 Sunday afternoon.

Wichita Police are hosting a news conference on the shooting at 4:00 pm today. Look for live coverage here.

UPDATE at 5/31/09 1:07:44 pm:

A free paper in Kansas has posted this picture of the suspect being arrested: Suspect in George Tiller killing arrested in Johnson County.

UPDATE at 5/31/09 1:10:28 pm:

A disgusting statement from Operation Rescue’s Randall Terry: George Tiller was a Mass-Murderer, says Randall Terry — We Grieve That he Did Not Have Time to Properly Prepare his Soul to Face God.

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue states, “George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

UPDATE at 5/31/09 1:53:35 pm:

Raw video of the suspect, with partial views of him sitting in a police car:

Wichita Abortion Provider George Tiller Shot, Killed.

FLV Video

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588 comments
1 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:43:40pm

Glad he didn't hurt anybody else

2 Bloodnok  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:43:51pm

Nice work law enforcement.

3 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:44:36pm

"life is sacred! protect life!"

*shoots somebody*

4 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:44:58pm

You go, Wichita PD!

5 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:45:34pm

Good work and props to the local Police. at least no one else was hurt

6 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:46:04pm

At least no one else was hurt and the suspect was arrested in quick order.

7 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:46:04pm

Friggin' assassins! In AMERICA! WTF is wrong with people?

8 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:46:54pm

I said this on the last thread, but I want to repeat it.

Some of those folks might have a very difficult time attending church for awhile due to trauma. And the children will suffer more from the trauma than the adults. Imagine not being able to attend church because your child is frightened! The killer has actually harmed people's relationship to God with this heinous act.

9 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:47:32pm

It will be interesting to see where this story goes over the next few weeks. What kind of person this killer is.....what motivated him.......

10 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:47:49pm

At least we won't have another Eric Rudolph, assuming of course that this holds up. The crazies practically turned that psycho into a folk hero before the law caught his mangy ass rummaging in a dumpster and locked it up.

11 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:48:14pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

I saw he was shot outside church at 10:03. so hopefully most of the children were inside and missed the shooting and suffered the minimum amount of trauma.

12 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:48:35pm

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

At least we won't have another Eric Rudolph, assuming of course that this holds up. The crazies practically turned that psycho into a folk hero before the law caught his mangy ass rummaging in a dumpster and locked it up.

I am sure he is already a hero to many. And, that is truly sick and pathetic.

13 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:48:41pm

Investigate and Prosecute. Let the suspect suffer the full extent of the Rule of Law if he is found guilty.

14 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:48:57pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

I said this on the last thread, but I want to repeat it.

Some of those folks might have a very difficult time attending church for awhile due to trauma. And the children will suffer more from the trauma than the adults. Imagine not being able to attend church because your child is frightened! The killer has actually harmed people's relationship to God with this heinous act.

According to my reading of the news he was shot inside the church while serving as an usher. At the time of his shooting his wife was in the choir.

15 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:49:19pm

re: #14 Gus 802

According to my reading of the news he was shot inside the church while serving as an usher. At the time of his shooting his wife was in the choir.


oh, that's really bad then. I thought it was outside

16 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:49:46pm

re: #15 Shug

oh, that's really bad then. I thought it was outside

Maybe it was outside as you noted. Have to wait I guess.

17 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:50:23pm

re: #16 Gus 802

Maybe it was outside as you noted. Have to wait I guess.

I would have missed it since I'm always at least 10 minutes late for church ( and I'm Catholic )

18 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:51:39pm

re: #11 Shug

I saw he was shot outside church at 10:03. so hopefully most of the children were inside and missed the shooting and suffered the minimum amount of trauma.

I certainly hope so. Little children's imaginations can run away with them though, and they might still be afraid of church. It can happen to adults too.

19 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:51:58pm

re: #17 Shug

I would have missed it since I'm always at least 10 minutes late for church ( and I'm Catholic )

Found a video and it looks like he was shot inside the church. They're removing the body of Tiller in this video:

[Link: videos.kansascity.com...]

20 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:52:04pm

Inside or outside, the violence done will affect the congregants long after most people forget the crime and the victim.

21 P. Aaron  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:52:23pm

Murder is murder.

22 mikalm  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:52:46pm

Some protector of the Faith, this assassin (assuming he's Christian). A church is holy space, where all are brothers and sisters in Christ. The last thing one does there is an act of violence. It's bad enough that this psycho "protested" Dr. Tiller by whacking him; that he did it in sacred space, with his wife present and children in attendance, is as evil an act as anything ever attributed to an abortionist.

23 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:53:07pm

Inside the lobby area.

24 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:54:23pm

re: #23 Gus 802

Inside the lobby area.

No matter where the murder happened, the police and media attention will scar the congregants.

25 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:55:05pm

Cold comfort that the killer didn't go on a spree and hurt anyone else.

26 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:55:34pm

Murdering the man in public only shows the depravity of this killer. That he should have tried escape shows how dangerous he is/was. If it was a one & done assassination, he'd have hung around, but he left. More work to do, perhaps? Pure speculation, I know, but there it is.

If he feared legal jam-ups, then he needs to think about this: his cause was "just" enough in his mind to require him to slay a man in a house of worship, but not so just that it could stand up in court as an affirmative defense.

27 neocon hippie  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:56:12pm

Wasn't there a mass murder in a church sometime within the last year or so?

28 Dianna  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:56:56pm

re: #27 neocon hippie

Wasn't there a mass murder in a church sometime within the last year or so?

There was. It started at a retreat site, and went on from there.

29 Lawrior  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:57:25pm

re: #22 mikalm

The nature of the space where Dr. Tiller ended his journey should not change the nature of the act in any way. Would this be less reprehensible if he was shot at a gun range, butcher shop, or movie theater? No.

30 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:57:40pm

(1) I am utterly opposed to late-term abortion.

(2) I am GLAD the police have (what I sincerely hope) is the perp.

No matter WHAT Tiller did, there is NO excuse for his murder.
Anyone who claims there is a justification is (IMHO) guilty of murder too.

/Rant off ... and an up-ding to Sharm's #8 !

31 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:58:28pm

re: #25 Sharmuta

Cold comfort that the killer didn't go on a spree and hurt anyone else.

Very true and it was not at all impossible. Many of the crazies commenting elsewhere have condemned the church itself for allowing Tiller to attend. One said they "must be worshipers of Satan."

32 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:58:51pm

re: #27 neocon hippie

Wasn't there a mass murder in a church sometime within the last year or so?

In Colorado. I know a young lady who was friends with one of the victims. Her and the young lady's family were devastated.

33 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:58:56pm

Evil will always try to cloak itself in respectability. The suspect will probably be proud of stopping what he sees as a murderer.

34 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:59:14pm

re: #27 neocon hippie

Wasn't there a mass murder in a church sometime within the last year or so?

David Adkisson?

Unitarian Church

2 dead 7 injured.

35 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:59:23pm

It's Rush's fault! A comment on Gateway Pundit:

The gunman wouldn't have done it if Rush Limbaugh wasn't preaching so much hate.
How long is it going to be before the MSM puts that in their articles?
8MyFoot %P% 05.31.09 - 2:24 pm %P%

LOL

36 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 12:59:41pm

re: #26 Guanxi88

Murdering the man in public only shows the depravity of this killer. That he should have tried escape shows how dangerous he is/was. If it was a one & done assassination, he'd have hung around, but he left. More work to do, perhaps? Pure speculation, I know, but there it is.

If he feared legal jam-ups, then he needs to think about this: his cause was "just" enough in his mind to require him to slay a man in a house of worship, but not so just that it could stand up in court as an affirmative defense.

He was running away...he's a coward. A coward for gunning down an unarmed man in a church and a coward for running away. Gardner, KS is almost 200 miles away from Wichita....he was getting away as fast as he could.

37 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:00:14pm

re: #34 Gus 802

David Adkisson?

Unitarian Church

2 dead 7 injured.

Seems there's more than one church killing spree. Sickening.

38 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:01:07pm

re: #37 Sharmuta

Seems there's more than one church killing spree. Sickening.

Yeah, I was just doing a search.

39 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:01:09pm

re: #29 Lawrior

The nature of the space where Dr. Tiller ended his journey should not change the nature of the act in any way. Would this be less reprehensible if he was shot at a gun range, butcher shop, or movie theater? No.

But the act is more reprehensible when performed in a house of worship, in the presence of friends, family, and acquaintances of the victim, as it shows depravity by the killer, reckless disregard for the life and safety of others, and a dangerous callousness. That he attempted escape showed he was aware of the consequences of his actions, and sought to flee them.

40 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:01:15pm

Smart idea using a powder blue Ford Taurus for your getaway car

/

41 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:02:13pm

re: #40 Shug

you'd think he wanted to get caught.....

42 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:02:48pm

re: #40 Shug

Smart idea using a powder blue Ford Taurus for your getaway car

/

Perhaps he was influenced by the ghost of Tim McVeigh, who made his escape in a car with no license plate.

43 JustMyView  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:03:24pm

re: #28 Dianna

There was. It started at a retreat site, and went on from there.

In that case, there may have been two, as there was one at a Unitarian church in Knoxville, Tennessee last summer, and I don't think the Tennessee shooting had anything to do w/ a retreat site. It did, though, have a political thrust in that the killer said he wanted to kill liberals and Democrats.

44 mikalm  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:03:36pm

re: #29 Lawrior

From the perspective of the law, yes. From the perspective of someone who takes seriously the teachings of Christ and the role of the sacred, no.

45 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:03:40pm

Did we have any trolly events on the prior thread?
I just got here.

46 pestolover  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:03:49pm

If the fellow claims to hate the sin but love the sinner, are they still charge him a hate crime? He stomped out the sinner with the sin, but was it hate? Hate does seem to be a component. But how will they measure it? If he hates the sin and the sinner it seems pretty cut and dry. Also, it's possible he hated the sinner for unrelated reasons and didn't hate the sin that much at all, in which case he stands to get the book thrown at him. Anyway, the fellow broke the commandment. The gunman, I mean. But the commandments don't figure in, I think. Still, he did break the law, and by God he'll answer for it.

47 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:04:05pm

re: #36 Desert Dog

He was running away...he's a coward. A coward for gunning down an unarmed man in a church and a coward for running away. Gardner, KS is almost 200 miles away from Wichita....he was getting away as fast as he could.

Fleeing Northeast. Odd, looks like he was running to Kansas City.

48 mikalm  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:04:06pm

re: #39 Guanxi88

Thanks. You put it far better than I could.

49 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:04:17pm

re: #45 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did we have any trolly events on the prior thread?
I just got here.

Yes, quite a lot.

50 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:04:22pm

re: #45 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did we have any trolly events on the prior thread?
I just got here.

Many gamey buttocks.

51 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:04:59pm

re: #45 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Go and look! It is a veritable plethora of deleted posts!

52 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:05:19pm

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

At least we won't have another Eric Rudolph, assuming of course that this holds up. The crazies practically turned that psycho into a folk hero before the law caught his mangy ass rummaging in a dumpster and locked it up.

They sure are a credit to their cause with making a hero out of a murderer. Last I check we are a nation with the rule of law. Actions of the murderer and the comments left by the nut-jobs giving their approval to his actions on various other blogs and article comment sections does nothing to stop or limit partial birth abortion. It only hurts the more peaceful efforts to change the law.

53 Lawrior  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:05:32pm

re: #39 Guanxi88

We can't say the killer was depraved per se? The killer was more depraved because it was in a house of worship? Fiddlesticks.

54 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:05:53pm

re: #51 pingjockey

Go and look! It is a veritable plethora of deleted posts!

And at least one defender of the insanity at other blogs.

55 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:06:21pm

re: #45 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did we have any trolly events on the prior thread?
I just got here.

I got here just a bit ago myself, and just skimming the last thread, it seems the answer is yes. My guess is there will be more and these two threads will need to be monitored, because Lord knows more will show up and post vileness when they think no one is looking.

56 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:06:47pm

re: #4 Pvt Bin Jammin

You go, Wichita PD!

From the pic it's looking like state trooper... I think this guy gave me a ticket not too long ago:

[Link: blogs.pitch.com...]

57 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:06:54pm

charles, any hate mail over this ?

58 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:07:00pm

re: #14 Gus 802

According to my reading of the news he was shot inside the church while serving as an usher. At the time of his shooting his wife was in the choir.

Oh, no...that is horrible. Just when you think the story couldn't get worse.

59 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:07:22pm

re: #54 FurryOldGuyJeans
Missed that one. Just got here about 10 minutes ago. We were watching Inside 9/11 on NatGeo.

60 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:08:02pm

re: #57 Shug

charles, any hate mail over this ?

If not then it will only be a matter of time. Sanity is a strong attractant for reviling by the insane.

61 mikalm  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:08:33pm

re: #60 FurryOldGuyJeans

If not then it will only be a matter of time. Sanity is a strong attractant for reviling by the insane.

LOL!

62 IslandLibertarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:08:48pm

A horrible act by a self appointed executioner(murderer).
And possibly another piece of shit the Left can hold up as a symbol of conservatism.
Anything from Garolfolo yet? Mahr?

/thanks, creep......

63 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:09:18pm

re: #49 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #50 Guanxi88

oh, *spit* !

I'm opposed to almost all forms, and situations, of abortion ... HOWEVER, some of these people go to lunatic extremes. I keep my mouth shut in here because of respect for the room.

/my beliefs are my beliefs, and shouldn't be forced upon anyone else

64 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:09:54pm

re: #53 Lawrior

We can't say the killer was depraved per se? The killer was more depraved because it was in a house of worship? Fiddlesticks.

No, I recognize that the law does not recognize or respect such distinctions. Murder is murder, naturally. I'm looking more at the intangibles and the setting of the alleged crime. Of course it was a depraved act by a depraved man.

For that matter, a murder committed in a private viewing booth of an "adult theatre" is every bit as depraved as one committed anywhere else. All true; but examine the psychology of the killer. IN one case, in an isolated place, away from witnesses and bystanders; no uninvolved persons - just killer and victim. Contrast this with someone committing murder in a crowded and public place; this latter type of act shows a single-minded focus on the commission of the crime, to the exclusion of all other factors. A killing in private shows a recognition of the existence of other people; a killing in public is, psychologically and symbolically, the annulment of the existence of all others but the killer; the victim is but an object to the killer, in all cases of murder.

65 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:10:03pm

OT,

While looking to see if Drudge has posted anything on this incident, I saw this:

US debuts super laser

sounds pretty cool to me

66 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:10:10pm

re: #59 pingjockey

Missed that one. Just got here about 10 minutes ago. We were watching Inside 9/11 on NatGeo.

I normally skim a thread with 100+ comments before I comment, but the prior thread was bringing out the kookery so I had to actually pay some close attention. By the time I got to the end this thread had popped up.

67 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:10:22pm

re: #58 capitalist piglet

Oh, no...that is horrible. Just when you think the story couldn't get worse.

Yes, I think it adds to the intensity of the event.

68 ladycatnip  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:10:51pm

I'm updinging on this thread because you're all saying it so well - thank God this scum was caught. Well done, men in blue.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:11:25pm

Hell and damn. It's getting even worse, a crazy at another site has just compared this as yet unnamed suspect to Count von Stauffenberg and the other anti-Hitler plotters.

70 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:12:24pm

Operation Rescue's Randall Terry:

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue states, “George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

71 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:12:44pm

re: #51 pingjockey

Go and look! It is a veritable plethora of deleted posts!

I ain't goin' over there.
I know my limitations.
If I encountered one, I would be deleted too.

72 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:13:01pm

re: #36 Desert Dog

He was running away...he's a coward. A coward for gunning down an unarmed man in a church and a coward for running away. Gardner, KS is almost 200 miles away from Wichita....he was getting away as fast as he could.

re: #47 Guanxi88

Fleeing Northeast. Odd, looks like he was running to Kansas City.

Anyone think he was running for Canada? Just a thought - I think they are hesitant to extradite in capital cases.

73 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:13:39pm

re: #70 Charles

I am so glad we, for the most part, follow the laws of man instead of the Laws of God. I don't want a theocracy, no matter what flavor.

74 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:02pm

re: #53 Lawrior

We can't say the killer was depraved per se? The killer was more depraved because it was in a house of worship? Fiddlesticks.

YOU can't say it, but I can. That killer is depraved.

75 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:03pm

re: #56 Thanos

From the pic it's looking like state trooper... I think this guy gave me a ticket not too long ago:

[Link: blogs.pitch.com...]

Sorry you got a ticket but "hats off" to the troopers.

76 Dar ul Harb  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:33pm

I wonder how the photographer who happened to be driving by knew that it was the arrest of the Tiller murder suspect that they were photographing, and not, say, a drug bust.

(I highly doubt the citizen journalists would stop and ask: "Excuse me officer, but is that guy you're arresting the suspect in the Tiller slaying?")

77 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:37pm

re: #45 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did we have any trolly events on the prior thread?
I just got here.

This is the tally so far from the previous thread:

GOBAN [This user is blocked.]
Deleted comments (each one):
Nim Chimpsky / Fearless Fred / restitutor orbis / restitutor orbis / leereyno


Let's see how many down dings I receive for this.

78 Idle Drifter  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:37pm

re: #65 Desert Dog

Sweet! I've heard of this experimentation towards development of fusion power via super lasers.

79 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:38pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel
That's sick. Abortion, however we feel about is legal and lawful in this country. Going around killing people becuse you violently disagree with what they do is not going to get you converts to your way of thinking, unless said converts are as mad as you are.

80 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:48pm

re: #55 Sharmuta

I got here just a bit ago myself, and just skimming the last thread, it seems the answer is yes. My guess is there will be more and these two threads will need to be monitored, because Lord knows more will show up and post vileness when they think no one is looking.

I'll be a watchdog at the end of most any thread, but probably not these.

/see my #71

81 jaunte  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:14:54pm

re: #70 Charles

There's no shortage of gasoline throwers around this issue.

82 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:15:04pm

Wow, that was quick. I wish more criminals used vanity plates.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:15:10pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

I said this on the last thread, but I want to repeat it.

Some of those folks might have a very difficult time attending church for awhile due to trauma. And the children will suffer more from the trauma than the adults. Imagine not being able to attend church because your child is frightened! The killer has actually harmed people's relationship to God with this heinous act.

I imagine the community will draw together. What a nightmare for them.

84 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:15:15pm

re: #70 Charles

Operation Rescue's Randall Terry:

Jaw-dropping. What an asshole.

85 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:15:42pm

re: #70 Charles


“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

Is that what it looks like? Sneaky support for this murderers actions? That is just...wow.

86 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:15:46pm

re: #75 Pvt Bin Jammin

Sorry you got a ticket but "hats off" to the troopers.

Bah, I deserved it, I know better than to speed through that area. My fault.

87 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:16:11pm

re: #72 Guanxi88

Anyone think he was running for Canada? Just a thought - I think they are hesitant to extradite in capital cases.

About the only notion I recall is that Canada is reluctant to extradite if the death penalty is allowed by the state.

Is Kansas a death penalty state?

88 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:16:14pm

re: #70 Charles

Operation Rescue's Randall Terry:

That's akin to rummaging through a dead man's pockets to get his cell phone to call his family and tell them what a prick he was.

Unbelievable.

89 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:16:38pm

re: #85 Jimmah

Is that what it looks like? Sneaky support for this murderers actions? That is just...wow.

That's exactly what it is. There isn't one word of condemnation for the murderer in Terry's statement.

90 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:16:47pm

re: #87 FurryOldGuyJeans

About the only notion I recall is that Canada is reluctant to extradite if the death penalty is allowed by the state.

Is Kansas a death penalty state?

Hell, I think this one'll go federal pretty quickly.

91 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:16:49pm

Does Randall Terry really think that FCBBHO can stop protests?

92 TedStriker  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:17:08pm

The perp, through his twisted and warped perspective, may have though he was doing God's will, but all they did was decide to play God themselves with this doctor's life.

Ironic, ain't it?

/I hope the perp either gets death himself or rots in jail for the rest of their putrid, wasted life...to some twisted people though, the perp will become a martyr either way

93 Velvet Elvis  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:17:17pm

re: #27 neocon hippie

Wasn't there a mass murder in a church sometime within the last year or so?

There was a politically motivated mass murder at the Tennessee Vally Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville TN. A friend of mine grew up in that church and still isn't totally over it. It's a liberal congregation and the guy wanted to kill as many liberals as he could before cops took him out. He didn't count on dirty hippies sacrificing their lives to stop him.

94 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:17:37pm

re: #34 Gus 802

BTW, there is a Unitarian Church just down the road from the Lutheran Church where Tiller was shot. The church is basically located in 'church lane'. I have mixed feelings -- relieved that this was isolated and wasn't a mass slaughter. Angry that it happened at all.
That doesn't lessen the horror of what has happened in Wichita today.
I'm pissed. Totally pissed.
I'm glad Kline is out of town and won't be prosecuting this case. I am sick that he issued a statement denouncing the "lawlessness" of this act. There is a sick irony in the man who perpetrated a witch hunt against tiller denouncing vigilantism. Of course, I'm waiting to hear what kind of protest horror awaits the funeral.
A few years ago, the local paper ran an article where former patients of Tiller gave their stories. It was a frank and enlightening article that showed the compassion of what Tiller did. I am searching for it, when I find it I will post.

95 Vicious Babushka  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:17:46pm

re: #70 Charles

Operation Rescue's Randall Terry:

What. A. Freaking. Asshole.

96 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:01pm

re: #89 Charles

That's exactly what it is. There isn't one word of condemnation for the murderer in Terry's statement.

Translation of Terry's statement: "A murderer was executed, but there are more to deal with "

97 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:02pm

re: #76 Dar ul Harb

I wonder how the photographer who happened to be driving by knew that it was the arrest of the Tiller murder suspect that they were photographing, and not, say, a drug bust.

(I highly doubt the citizen journalists would stop and ask: "Excuse me officer, but is that guy you're arresting the suspect in the Tiller slaying?")

It could be bogus, but car description matches and it's in right area.

98 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:05pm

re: #90 Guanxi88

Hell, I think this one'll go federal pretty quickly.

I personally would rather see the state of Kansas take first crack and let the Feds have sloppy seconds.

99 Dar ul Harb  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:19pm

re: #89 Charles

That's exactly what it is. There isn't one word of condemnation for the murderer in Terry's statement.

And just what are the "most effective rhetoric and actions" anyway, in this context?

Religious solicitation to murder?

100 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:20pm

re: #70 Charles

Operation Rescue's Randall Terry:

that's pretty brazen but completely expected from him.

I have tried very hard to temper my comments about Tiller given how I feel about elective late term abortions. I will leave it at that. The guy was murdered. No matter how vile he was he didn't deserve to be murdered. We are a nation of laws and there is no justification for what happened to Tiller. None

Randall Terry could have used the platform to display a bit of class and to emplore his followers to resist violence AT ALL TIMES.
His last little blurb about peacefully protesting was probably inserted by his lawyer.

101 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:24pm

re: #91 MandyManners

Does Randall Terry really think that FCBBHO can stop protests?

Yes- he can stop people from expressing their opinions about government policy too. We need an insurrrection.

/pamela

102 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:32pm

re: #87 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yes

103 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:50pm

re: #87 FurryOldGuyJeans

Is Kansas a death penalty state?

Yes it is. Link.

104 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:18:59pm

re: #85 Jimmah

Is that what it looks like? Sneaky support for this murderers actions? That is just...wow.

Notice he had no harsh words for the sonofabitch who did this.

105 Dar ul Harb  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:19:08pm

re: #97 Thanos

It could be bogus, but car description matches and it's in right area.

Good point.

106 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:19:42pm

re: #70 Charles

Wow. That is NOT the OR quote given by the Wichita Eagle in their article.

107 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:19:43pm

re: #94 KansasMom

BTW, there is a Unitarian Church just down the road from the Lutheran Church where Tiller was shot. The church is basically located in 'church lane'. I have mixed feelings -- relieved that this was isolated and wasn't a mass slaughter. Angry that it happened at all.
That doesn't lessen the horror of what has happened in Wichita today.
I'm pissed. Totally pissed.
I'm glad Kline is out of town and won't be prosecuting this case. I am sick that he issued a statement denouncing the "lawlessness" of this act. There is a sick irony in the man who perpetrated a witch hunt against tiller denouncing vigilantism. Of course, I'm waiting to hear what kind of protest horror awaits the funeral.
A few years ago, the local paper ran an article where former patients of Tiller gave their stories. It was a frank and enlightening article that showed the compassion of what Tiller did. I am searching for it, when I find it I will post.

There's a candlelight vigil at 8 PM, fully expect Terry demonstrators to show up...

108 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:19:49pm

re: #102 Thanos

Yes

Thanks, nice to know that the ultimate justice can be meted out if this suspect is found guilty.

109 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:19:53pm

re: #104 capitalist piglet

Notice he had no harsh words for the sonofabitch who did this.

It's probably a friend of his

110 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:19:57pm

re: #65 Desert Dog

OT,

While looking to see if Drudge has posted anything on this incident, I saw this:

US debuts super laser

sounds pretty cool to me

Video

It looks like Cerebro from Xmen!

111 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:20:01pm

The perp is a white guy who is probably an alleged "Christian", so for once, media bias will work in our favor - you can bet this guy's family life, website/blog affiliations, criminal history, and favorite flavor of ice cream will be totally exposed within 36 hours.

I wonder what his Kos Freeper handle was.

112 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:20:10pm
“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

Are there a wink and a nudge behind the word "peacefully"?

113 Wendya  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:20:31pm

re: #36 Desert Dog

He was running away...he's a coward. A coward for gunning down an unarmed man in a church and a coward for running away. Gardner, KS is almost 200 miles away from Wichita....he was getting away as fast as he could.

How far did he think he would get in a powder blue Ford Taurus?

114 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:20:45pm

re: #94 KansasMom

BTW, there is a Unitarian Church just down the road from the Lutheran Church where Tiller was shot. The church is basically located in 'church lane'. I have mixed feelings -- relieved that this was isolated and wasn't a mass slaughter. Angry that it happened at all.
That doesn't lessen the horror of what has happened in Wichita today.
I'm pissed. Totally pissed.
I'm glad Kline is out of town and won't be prosecuting this case. I am sick that he issued a statement denouncing the "lawlessness" of this act. There is a sick irony in the man who perpetrated a witch hunt against tiller denouncing vigilantism. Of course, I'm waiting to hear what kind of protest horror awaits the funeral.
A few years ago, the local paper ran an article where former patients of Tiller gave their stories. It was a frank and enlightening article that showed the compassion of what Tiller did. I am searching for it, when I find it I will post.

I was looking at a "street view" on Google of the church location and noticed the adjacent churches.

This event is going to create a lot of chatter on both sides of the abortion issue.

115 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:20:50pm

re: #112 MandyManners
Yup!

116 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:21:07pm

re: #101 Sharmuta

Yes- he can stop people from expressing their opinions about government policy too. We need an insurrrection.

/pamela

Speaking of the devil, I wonder how she's treating this and how the stalker's treating this.

117 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:21:13pm

People like Randall Terry frighten me. They don't care about the laws of this nation. They don't need any validation for their actions except their own sense of righteousness.

118 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:21:51pm

re: #112 MandyManners

Peaceful is now from the barrel of a gun.

119 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:21:54pm

re: #111 Pawn of the Oppressor

so for once, media bias will work in our favor -

huh!?!?!?

They'll lap this up as EVIDENCE that the "right' is spewing AND acting on hate !

120 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:21:56pm

re: #113 Wendya

How far did he think he would get in a powder blue Ford Taurus?

I would guess that most of his actions today were lacking in thought

121 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:21:57pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

People like Randall Terry frighten me. They don't care about the laws of this nation. They don't need any validation for their actions except their own sense of righteousness.


They are cut from the same cloth as Jihadists

122 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:22:14pm

re: #107 Thanos

Thank you. I may go.

123 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:22:32pm

re: #109 Shug

It's probably a friend of his

I'm waiting for Alan Keyes to pop his head up.

124 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:22:51pm

Re the comments on this at free republic etc - I'm realising more and more that those who go around with "We are all extremists now" badges/bumper stickers really aren't kidding (speaking for themselves that is).

125 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:23:07pm

re: #82 Fluffster

Wow, that was quick. I wish more criminals used vanity plates.

Judging by the open country in the background of the photo, I think in that part of Kansas on a Sunday afternoon, it's going to be pretty hard to miss a nervous-looking guy in a Ford going 90. He shouldn't have wasted the gas trying to run.

126 Lawrior  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:23:27pm

re: #87 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yes and no. They have it, but have not executed anyone since 1965. LINK

127 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:23:28pm

re: #117 Sharmuta
Y'all forgive me ahead of time, but people like Terry remind me of the jihadis. IOW God/Allah told me to do it or it's the will of God/Allah. They are crazy scary.

128 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:23:43pm

re: #70 Charles

From the Wichita Eagle:
"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," anti-abortion group Operation Rescue said in a statement on its Web site. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller's family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ."


WTF?

129 Wendya  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:24:02pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

People like Randall Terry frighten me. They don't care about the laws of this nation. They don't need any validation for their actions except their own sense of righteousness.

They don't frighten me but they do seem to be particularly effective at gathering a mob to hide behind.

130 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:24:20pm

re: #123 capitalist piglet

I'm waiting for Alan Keyes to pop his head up.

No, you're not, really, are you? I could go the rest of my life without hearing from "ambassdor" Keyes ever again, and not have missed anything.

131 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:24:27pm

re: #70 Charles

Operation Rescue's Randall Terry:

(merely to be fair -- I don't know anything about Operation Rescue)

An AP article I saw earlier has this:

Anti-abortion group Operation Rescue issued a statement denouncing the shooting.

"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," said Troy Newman, Operation Rescue's president. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning."

I don't know the relationship between Terry and Newman. Newman sounds decent. (Terry? I'm wondering.)

132 JammieWearingFool  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:24:38pm

Randall Terry is really a loathsome PoS. Nothing justifies murdering this doctor.

133 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:24:39pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

so for once, media bias will work in our favor -

huh!?!?!?

They'll lap this up as EVIDENCE that the "right' is spewing AND acting on hate !

Um, parts of the right ARE spewing and acting hate. And now they will be exposed thoroughly. (Or, "more thoroughly")

It's always good to know who the thugs are, no?

134 Lawrior  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:24:46pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

I'd say Terry & co. get their validation directly from the Bible.

135 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:25:01pm

re: #127 pingjockey

Shug already beat you to it. I think it goes to show that islam doesn't have a monopoly on religious extremists.

136 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:25:18pm

re: #121 Shug

They are cut from the same cloth as Jihadists

Religion trumps law and civilization. *SPIT*

I just say NO!

137 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:25:35pm

re: #135 Sharmuta
Shug types faster'n me!

138 Wendya  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:25:39pm

re: #134 Lawrior

I'd say Terry & co. get their validation directly from the Bible.

No, they get their validation from idiots.

139 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:25:41pm

re: #133 Pawn of the Oppressor

Um, parts of the right ARE spewing and acting hate. And now they will be exposed thoroughly. (Or, "more thoroughly")

It's always good to know who the thugs are, no?

The MSM won;t seperate "PARTS OF THE RIGHT" for the REST of the right!

It's ALL "right" to them

140 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:25:49pm

re: #105 Dar ul Harb

Good point.


UPDATE:

It's a Johnson County Sherriff's car, not trooper. There's a second photo where you can make that out.

141 amir  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:26:11pm

Google "operation rescue".
Notice they have a category called "tiller watch."
I haven't been able to get in yet though. Probably lots of traffic.

142 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:26:39pm

re: #104 capitalist piglet

Notice he had no harsh words for the sonofabitch who did this.

Yeah - not even token condemnation. Not even a muslim terrorist apologist style "I condemn this, but..."

143 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:26:46pm

re: #134 Lawrior

I'd say Terry & co. get their validation directly from the Bible.

They use the Bible to justify their righteousness. They go on to use their "righteousness" to validate their actions.

144 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:27:12pm

re: #128 KansasMom

I must be missing something (not a 1st for me, btw0 I see nothing inflammatory or wrong with that press release

145 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:27:26pm

re: #134 Lawrior

I'd say Terry & co. get their validation directly from the Bible.

Can you cite that verse?

146 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:27:29pm

re: #132 JammieWearingFool

Randall Terry is really a loathsome PoS. Nothing justifies murdering this doctor.

Where are these words from Randall Terry? I don't see his words that say he condones such action.
*askin*

147 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:27:30pm

re: #137 pingjockey

Shug types faster'n me!

GMTA.

148 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:27:50pm

re: #130 Guanxi88

No, you're not, really, are you? I could go the rest of my life without hearing from "ambassdor" Keyes ever again, and not have missed anything.

Curiosity, I guess. I have had a deep dislike for Alan Keyes for many years, and I just have to wonder how he's going to play this, since he seems to be sort of an ideological soulmate of Randall Terry.

Will he win the race to the bottom, or come in second?

Come on, Alan - you're not going to let that chump make you look like a wimp, are you? It's time to go Full Nutburger!

149 zombie  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:28:01pm
UPDATE at 5/31/09 1:10:28 pm:

A disgusting statement from Operation Rescue’s Randall Terry: George Tiller was a Mass-Murderer, says Randall Terry — We Grieve That he Did Not Have Time to Properly Prepare his Soul to Face God.

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue states, “George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

Randall Terry must be psychotic.

Do citizens commit vigilante lynchings, even of criminals of who murder adults?

No. Because we live in a civilized country. Even if you thought Tiller was a murder, you have no right to execute him yourself -- that is up to the police and the court system.

Vigilante-ism is a crime as worse as any other -- especially when it leads to death.

150 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:28:18pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

They use the Bible to justify their righteousness. They go on to use their "righteousness" to validate their actions.

Ya think?!?!

/Did you know my paternal grandmother? ... Huh?

151 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:28:35pm

re: #22 mikalm

Some protector of the Faith, this assassin (assuming he's Christian). A church is holy space, where all are brothers and sisters in Christ. The last thing one does there is an act of violence. It's bad enough that this psycho "protested" Dr. Tiller by whacking him; that he did it in sacred space, with his wife present and children in attendance, is as evil an act as anything ever attributed to an abortionist.

IMHO, it's far more evil.

Murder in the first degree -- which this surely is -- is not excusable in any way, shape, or form. IIRC, the Biblical remedy for this was the (often painful and prolonged) death of the murderer. I don't recall, offhand, where that admonition is, but I think it may be in Deuteronomy.

Murdering someone in the presence of children is far worse. I sincerely hope that Kansas still has the death penalty.

152 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:28:38pm

re: #144 sattv4u2

The interesting part is the contrast with the OR quote that Charles located.
This group speaks with a forked tongue. They know what they should say to the press, and what they should say to their followers.
Bastards.

153 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:28:55pm

From what I can surmise is that this "operation rescue" is fully responsible for this reprehensible cold-blooded murder.

154 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:29:08pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

People like Randall Terry frighten me. They don't care about the laws of this nation. They don't need any validation for their actions except their own sense of righteousness.

If we assume the murder was abortion related, the murderer was as secure in the rightness of his cause as anyone else is that thinks they are on a mission from God. Folks like Randall, just feed that belief.

155 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:29:25pm

re: #147 Shug
Heh!

156 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:30:02pm

I tried accessing the operation rescue site, but it won't load

157 ladycatnip  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:30:08pm

Lots of good comments here...need to work off the anger in my garden - this whole thing has me crazy.

Have a good day, lizards.

158 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:30:18pm

re: #153 callahan23

From what I can surmise is that this "operation rescue" is fully responsible for this reprehensible cold-blooded murder.

Yes. Although I do place some blame on Kline and his well-publicized witch hunt.

159 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:30:21pm

re: #154 avanti

He is as secure in his belief in his going to Paradise as the Jihadis are of getting 72 virgins.

*SPIT*

160 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:30:37pm

re: #153 callahan23

From what I can surmise is that this "operation rescue" is fully responsible for this reprehensible cold-blooded murder.

Operation Rescue itself?
We don't know that.

161 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:30:38pm

re: #156 Shug

I tried accessing the operation rescue site, but it won't load


oops

it's blocked by my work firewall as a hate site !

no joke

162 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:00pm

re: #161 Shug

Is that ironic?

163 JammieWearingFool  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:06pm

re: #146 unrealizedviewpoint

Where are these words from Randall Terry? I don't see his words that say he condones such action.
*askin*

Look at the update.

164 lawhawk  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:08pm

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Been away all weekend and just heard of this particular news (caught a game at Camden Yards - nice game, great seats). This news is sick stuff - both the murder of this particular doctor and then Operation Rescue's response.

165 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:15pm

re: #153 callahan23

From what I can surmise is that this "operation rescue" is fully responsible for this reprehensible cold-blooded murder.

How have you come to this conclusion?

166 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:29pm

re: #124 Jimmah

Re the comments on this at free republic etc - I'm realising more and more that those who go around with "We are all extremists now" badges/bumper stickers really aren't kidding (speaking for themselves that is).

You can find people celebrating the murder at almost every right-wing blog that has posted about it. I'm completely appalled.

167 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:30pm

re: #156 Shug

I tried accessing the operation rescue site, but it won't load

Bandwidths probably getting bombarded with both followers and detractors

168 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:31:59pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

Is that ironic?


yes considering I can access dailykos and huffpo and vlaams belang ( I just tried to see if I could.....not a regular visitor of these sites if you get my drift )

169 Fearless Fred  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:32:09pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

I said this on the last thread, but I want to repeat it.

Some of those folks might have a very difficult time attending church for awhile due to trauma. And the children will suffer more from the trauma than the adults. Imagine not being able to attend church because your child is frightened! The killer has actually harmed people's relationship to God with this heinous act.

"harmed people's relationship to God" ... really?

"very difficult time attending church" ... ?

I believe they'll be very happy the shooter is caught, and that he will be tried in court. Most of them will be relieved that Dr. Tiller will perform no more abortions. Hopefully they're sorry for the wrongful and sinful act committed by Tiller's killer.

170 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:32:37pm

re: #154 avanti

If we assume the murder was abortion related, the murderer was as secure in the rightness of his cause as anyone else is that thinks they are on a mission from God. Folks like Randall, just feed that belief.

I hope you realize that you're destroying your karma.

/teasing -- reverse meaning

171 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:32:42pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

Is that ironic?

I'd say its accurate.

172 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:32:52pm

re: #166 Charles
Is it really that bad? Have they(bloggers) all gone mad?

173 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:33:34pm

re: #144 sattv4u2

I must be missing something (not a 1st for me, btw0 I see nothing inflammatory or wrong with that press release

Perhaps with the words and phrases that are emphasized. Also in what he didn't say in condemning the perpetrator. I find Terry's final phrase to be rather suspect: even their churches.

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue states, “George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

“Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

174 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:34:03pm

re: #166 Charles

You can find people celebrating the murder at almost every right-wing blog that has posted about it. I'm completely appalled.

But probably not surprised.
Reminds me of the Palestinians parading and handing out candy on 9/11.
Anyone who finds reason to celebrate death and murder are sick.
And scary.

175 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:34:48pm

re: #169 Fearless Fred

Yes, really. Have you ever been the victim of a violent crime? Ever witness one? The trauma can last for quite awhile. And I worry some of the congregants will have a difficult time in the weeks to come. They might not be able to attend church because the building will trigger traumatic memories.

176 TedStriker  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:34:51pm

IIRC, wasn't Randall Terry pushed out of OR for having an affair or something not too long ago?

177 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:35:17pm

Re Randall Terry -- there's no righteousness quite like self-righteousness

/rant off

178 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:35:24pm

re: #173 Gus 802

I was referrong to the statement on KANSAS MOMS #128

179 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:35:34pm

re: #169 Fearless Fred

"harmed people's relationship to God" ... really?

"very difficult time attending church" ... ?

I believe they'll be very happy the shooter is caught, and that he will be tried in court. Most of them will be relieved that Dr. Tiller will perform no more abortions. Hopefully they're sorry for the wrongful and sinful act committed by Tiller's killer.

You don't think a child could be traumatized, witnessing a cold-blooded murder in a place they once considered safe?

You think people in that congregation are feeling "relief" about anything today?

Wow.

180 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:35:35pm

re: #158 KansasMom

Yes. Although I do place some blame on Kline and his well-publicized witch hunt.

Sure, all those like Kline and "operation rescue" who instigated this witch hunt are responsible.
If they wanted to fight abortion they shouldn't have made it personal in this case targeting Tiller. The correct way to 'fight' is to debate and discuss but never singling out one individual.
Reprehensible to the max.

181 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:36:38pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

I was referrong to the statement on KANSAS MOMS #128

Ah, OK. I should get more coffee.

182 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:37:01pm

re: #173 Gus 802

Gus, sat was commenting about ANOTHER post -- a press release by a Mr. Newman, the president of Operation Rescue, which was extremely decent.

183 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:37:24pm

I certainly hope medical professionals will step up and offer the church members counseling like we often see with other crimes.

184 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:37:27pm

re: #181 Gus 802

Ah, OK. I should get more coffee.

While you're up ,,, I'll have a Vodka and OJ on the rocks

ummm,,,, but hold the rocks ,,, and the OJ ,, and double the Vodka !

185 jaunte  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:37:44pm

(March 28)
Doctor acquitted by Kansas jury in late-term abortion trial

Tiller was charged with 19 criminal misdemeanor counts. Kansas law requires that a physician get a second opinion from a doctor with whom he or she has no legal or financial ties before terminating a pregnancy of longer than 22 weeks when the fetus is considered "viable" (able to survive outside the womb). The consulting doctor must agree that continuing a pregnancy to term would cause "substantial and irreversible harm" to the woman, including mental or emotional harm.

The criminal charges were based on cases involving mostly teenagers. One patient was a 10-year-old who was 28 weeks pregnant; another, 24 years old, was 30 weeks pregnant.

Many of the abortions Tiller performed were of fetuses found to be medically compromised.


[Link: www.monnat.com...]

186 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:37:50pm

re: #154 avanti

If we assume the murder was abortion related, the murderer was as secure in the rightness of his cause as anyone else is that thinks they are on a mission from God. Folks like Randall, just feed that belief.

Same Jihad, different book.

187 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:37:53pm

re: #169 Fearless Fred
The murder was in a church, sounds like where everyone could see it. Violent death up close and personal is very traumatic.

188 Bloodnok  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:04pm

re: #166 Charles

You can find people celebrating the murder at almost every right-wing blog that has posted about it. I'm completely appalled.

Another gigantic step deeper into the wilderness.

189 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:07pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

I was referrong to the statement on KANSAS MOMS #128

Please see my #152

190 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:09pm

re: #182 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #184 sattv4u2

While you're up ,,, I'll have a Vodka and OJ on the rocks

ummm,,,, but hold the rocks ,,, and the OJ ,, and double the Vodka !

And get BOOMER whatever he wants too!

191 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:11pm

re: #182 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Gus, sat was commenting about ANOTHER post -- a press release by a Mr. Newman, the president of Operation Rescue, which was extremely decent.

Yep, and I agree. The one he was referring to seemed rather decent.

192 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:12pm

re: #170 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I hope you realize that you're destroying your karma.

/teasing -- reverse meaning

My Karma is like the stock market, I'll hit a bear market again if we get a climate change thread. :)

193 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:17pm

re: #160 pre-Boomer Marine brat

see my: re: #180 callahan23

194 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:28pm

re: #189 KansasMom

Please see my #152

I did , thanks

195 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:38:31pm

re: #149 zombie

Randall Terry must be psychotic.

Do citizens commit vigilante lynchings, even of criminals of who murder adults?

No. Because we live in a civilized country. Even if you thought Tiller was a murder, you have no right to execute him yourself -- that is up to the police and the court system.

Vigilante-ism is a crime as worse as any other -- especially when it leads to death.

My take is that Randall Terry is psychotic, and has been for at least the last 20 years.

He isn't quite at the Fred Phelps stage, but he's getting there.

196 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:15pm

re: #184 sattv4u2

While you're up ,,, I'll have a Vodka and OJ on the rocks

ummm,,,, but hold the rocks ,,, and the OJ ,, and double the Vodka !

I just have an unopened box of wine in the fridge. =]

197 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:15pm

I'm disgusted by so many conservatives/republicans praising a murderer when these same people would be lining up calling for deportation of muslims had this been done in the name of allah

hypocrites, the lot of em

198 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:20pm

re: #188 Bloodnok

Another gigantic step deeper into the wilderness.

I've deleted several of my regular blog bookmarks in the last month or three. LGF is the last one left.

199 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:20pm

re: #192 avanti

My Karma is like the stock market, I'll hit a bear market again if we get a climate change thread. :)

That's a grizzly prospect!

200 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:33pm

re: #196 Gus 802

I just have an unopened box of wine in the fridge. =]

Not for long.

201 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:41pm

I'm sorry, but anything "decent" that comes out of Operation Rescue about this murder is nothing more than ass-covering. They feed the mentality that produces these kinds of crimes, and issue nudge-nudge, wink-wink statements when people take their encouragement to heart and commit murder.

The truth about Operation Rescue is right there in Randall Terry's vile remarks. Anything else is window dressing.

202 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:39:45pm

re: #165 unrealizedviewpoint

see my: re: #180 callahan23

203 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:40:03pm

re: #179 capitalist piglet

You don't think a child could be traumatized, witnessing a cold-blooded murder in a place they once considered safe?

You think people in that congregation are feeling "relief" about anything today?

Wow.

Really nicely stated. It may even cause some of these people to question their faith to have seen such an act in a House of the Lord. Who knows? I certainly believe God will comfort those who look to Him for such.

204 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:40:33pm

re: #186 Pawn of the Oppressor

Same Jihad, different book.

Really? The New Testament has a suggestion to "find a (insert) behind a rock and kill him"?

205 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:41:11pm

re: #166 Charles

You can find people celebrating the murder at almost every right-wing blog that has posted about it. I'm completely appalled.

If anyone had said to me that this is how the right wing blogosphere would respond to an event like this, I would have thought they were going a bit too far. This is really shocking.

206 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:41:16pm

Randall Terry's Wiki:

Though she was only 16 when she left home, Ebony Whetstone soon became pregnant and would eventually have two children outside of marriage.[3] She converted to Islam, a religion her father has preached is composed of "murderers" and "terrorists."[3] In 2004, Terry described his relationship with Ebony as "good."[3] However, Terry banned Tila from his home after she became pregnant outside of marriage twice by age 18; her first pregnancy ended in miscarriage.[3][5]

He has also banished his adopted son. In 1998, when Terry was running for Congress and accused of racism, his son Jamiel stepped forward to defend him.[3] In 2000, Jamiel worked with his father on Steven Forbes's campaign for the Republican nomination for U.S. President, and campaigned with his father against gay marriage in Vermont.[3] In 2004, Jamiel publicly announced that he was a homosexual and wrote an article for Out Magazine for which he was paid $2,500.[3] Terry contends much of the article was written by other people and most of the statements purported to be facts in the article were untrue. Terry promptly disowned his son and claimed that he had "prostituted" the family name. He attributed Jamiel's sexuality to his biological mother, saying that she was a prostitute.[3] Jamiel's response was, "My father's first and foremost aim is to protect himself. He talks about how I prostitute the family's name, but he's used the fact that he saved my sister from abortion and rescued me from hardship in his speeches and interviews. What's the difference?"[3]

When he learned in 2004 that his son was giving an interview about his orientation to the Washington Post, Terry pre-empted Jamiel by writing an essay, My Prodigal Son, the Homosexual,[6] which was published on Terry's own website and several other websites, rejecting his son and referring to his life as "a shambles."[3]

In 2000, Terry divorced his wife of 19 years, Cindy,[3] and married his former church assistant, a young woman named Andrea Sue Kollmorgen.[4][5][7] Kollmorgen, born circa 1976, was approximately 25 at the time of their nuptials;[8] Terry is 17 years older. As a consequence of the divorce, the home on 119 acres where he had lived with Cindy and their four children was to be sold.[7] His decision to divorce in 2000 to marry the youthful Kollmorgen was unfavorably contrasted in the mainstream press to his own stern judgment expressed in his 1995 book, The Judgment of God: "Families are destroyed as a father vents his mid life crisis by abandoning his wife for a 'younger, prettier model.' "[3] His sentiments against divorce had been so strong that when his own parents divorced, "Randall refused to let his children speak with their grandfather for three years," according to interviews with the family done by the Washington Post.[3]


Fucking hypocrite.

207 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:41:24pm

re: #180 callahan23

Sure, all those like Kline and "operation rescue" who instigated this witch hunt are responsible.
If they wanted to fight abortion they shouldn't have made it personal in this case targeting Tiller. The correct way to 'fight' is to debate and discuss but never singling out one individual.
Reprehensible to the max.

Exactly.

208 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:41:26pm

re: #193 callahan23

see my: re: #180 callahan23

Done, and I now see what you mean.
I'd taken the other one literally.

209 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:41:57pm

This statement is at the top of the Army of God website:

A great day for the unborn children scheduled to be murdered by Babykilling Abortionist George Tiller.
George Tiller reaped what he sowed and now has been cast alive into everlasting torment and fire for the innocent blood he has shed.

Also of note: Tiller was murdered in a Reformation Lutheran Church. Mike Bray, Pastor, Reformation Lutheran Church, Bowie, Maryland, is one of the signers of this statement in defense of murder:

We, the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary to defend innocent human life including the use of force. We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child. We assert that if Michael Griffin did in fact kill David Gunn, his use of lethal force was justifiable provided it was carried out for the purpose of defending the lives of unborn children. Therefore, he ought to be acquitted of the charges against him.

I call Army of God craziness.

210 amused  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:42:00pm

I don't 'like' abortion but I think women should have that choice.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the murderer has a history of being abused such that he has self-esteem issues that spiraled out of control. My perception of a lot of the anti-choice people is that they are self-serving. Their emotional 'save the baby humans' is a device to create a noble cause that they can pretend to support, which makes them feel like a better person. (Nothing inherently wrong with that until laws get passed that affect other people.) So I'm predicting that this murderer has so obsessed over this issue that he could justify violence, because of his own needs to feel better about himself.

211 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:42:03pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

Really? The New Testament has a suggestion to "find a (insert) behind a rock and kill him"?

Would you like a pair of binoculars to watch my point fly over your head in low earth orbit?

212 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:42:29pm

re: #203 Sharmuta

Really nicely stated. It may even cause some of these people to question their faith to have seen such an act in a House of the Lord. Who knows? I certainly believe God will comfort those who look to Him for such.

So do I, Sharm. That very thing will be in my prayers today, thanks to your suggestion.

213 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:42:57pm

re: #211 Pawn of the Oppressor

Would you like a pair of binoculars to watch my point fly over your head in low earth orbit?

No ,, but if you wear a hat we won't notice it !

//

214 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:43:35pm

re: #199 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That's a grizzly prospect!

Yes, I take a polar opposite opinion.

215 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:44:11pm

re: #199 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #214 avanti

Yes, I take a polar opposite opinion.

I can't bear this !

216 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:44:20pm

re: #206 MandyManners

They always do seem to be hypocrites, don't they?

217 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:44:24pm

re: #213 sattv4u2

No ,, but if you wear a hat we won't notice it !

//

Hilarious, but evidently you still don't get it.

218 enoughalready  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:44:58pm

There are no words that can describe what I feel. But I will try anyway and I'm sure to step on some toes while doing it. If I do then remember that while I was writing this I was listening to Al Green's "L-O-V-E". That might mean something to you.

This is disgusting. It angers me to no end. It is no less of a terrorist act than was the bombing in Oklahoma City. This doesn't mean that the act is worse in and by itself. Just that the act, the very meaning of the act, is exactly the same. To create and spread fear among a specific group. In this case it's the physicians and nurses that handle abortions in our society. Abortions which are legal. Taste that word. L E G A L. There's nothing illegal about what Dr Tiller was doing per se. (I won't go in to the ethical argument, most of the people who want to discuss that tend to end up talking about books I don't believe in and invisible men-in-the-sky, which has always struck me as a rather unorthodox version of appeal to - an imaginary - authority)
All of these physicians, nurses (and countless other staffers at clinics) are the targets of this. As is their immediate families. Someone wants them to FEAR. And that is nothing less than terrorism. Nothing less. In fact it is the very definition of terrorism. Now. Let me be perfectly clear. I am all for freedom. Freedom of religion. Freedom of (all!) speech. Etc. You all know the drill. What I am starting to get fed up with are all these religious people (regardless of affiliation) who KEEP telling everyone else what they can and can't do. Who spread fear and engage in more or less direct hate-mongering - and YES this goes for EVERY major religion out there regardless of whether it's christians, muslims, hindus or buddhists. The only religions I don't see spreading this kind of vile crap is the church of the sub-genius and the church of the spaghetti monster.
And statements like the one above is NOT AN IOTA BETTER than some of the crap I have seen coming from people like CAIR. I will say that again. IT'S THE SAME EFFING CRAP.
Now, to all you nice, warm and friendly religious folks out there that are pro-life in the non-murdering sense - I know, this is not you.

But the people who harass women outside of clinics, who threaten, who hurt and ultimately in some cases kill others for their "cause" can (excuse my french) go straight to hell (which coincidentally is pretty close to Gardemoen, the airport outside of Oslo, Norway) as far as I am concerned. You are no better than suicide bombers.

And if you think that these doctors are murderers then I suggest you argue your case with your elected representative instead of standing around in the street acting NO BETTER than the Black Panthers that we have all seen standing around looking menacing.

Now I will take a long walk and think of something else before I spontaneously self combust.

219 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:16pm

I cannot locate the article where former patients explained why Tiller's services were necessary for them.
Unfortunately, the closest thing I could find is from Ms. Magazine. I'm not exactly a fan of their mag, but there are some good points in this article.
The Last Resort

220 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:20pm

I hope when he gets to this comment, Salamantis will take the time to once again describe what pro-lifers did to him, and his cat.

221 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:22pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

I certainly hope medical professionals will step up and offer the church members counseling like we often see with other crimes.

I'd say that's pretty much a given.

In such cases in schools, counselors and medical professionals are there within a couple of hours or so. I don't see any reason why the response in this case would be any longer than that.

222 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:23pm

re: #195 Steffan

My take is that Randall Terry is psychotic, and has been for at least the last 20 years.

He isn't quite at the Fred Phelps stage, but he's getting there.

It's embarrassing that they are both from Kansas.

223 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:39pm

re: #216 Sharmuta

They always do seem to be hypocrites, don't they?

When you point a finger at someone else, there are three pointing back.

224 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:46pm

re: #214 avanti

Yes, I take a polar opposite opinion.

I'm going into overload already.
/brown out

225 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:54pm

Another image of the suspects car:

[Link: item.slide.com...]

Supposed to be a press conference at the top of the hour.

226 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:45:54pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

re: #214 avanti

I can't bear this !

The issue can be Smokey.

227 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:46:17pm

re: #223 MandyManners

When you point a finger at someone else, there are three pointing back.

That happened to me at Disney Land

weird efn big mouse !

228 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:46:17pm

gonna check out fora while....as a guess, I'm gonna take a guess that the killer's party affiliation is Democrat as we normally would have heard by now if he was republican.

being cynical, but given past press behavior, would it suprise anyone

229 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:46:18pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

re: #214 avanti


I can't bear this !

Ursus is Horrible!

230 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:46:28pm

re: #226 avanti

The issue can be Smokey.

Just like a leftie - always talking the market down!

231 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:46:55pm

re: #220 Sharmuta

I hope when he gets to this comment, Salamantis will take the time to once again describe what pro-lifers did to him, and his cat.

Well, I'm a "pro-life" person, but would never murder anyone, nor would I do anything to Sala and his cat.

I hope you meant "some" pro-lifers.

232 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:47:04pm

re: #229 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Ursus is Horrible!

And so, we come back to the Arthurian discussion from a short while ago.

233 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:47:21pm

re: #229 pre-Boomer Marine brat
That is about enough pandaring around!

234 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:47:53pm

re: #229 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Ursus is Horrible!

You're making a BOO BOO

235 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:47:57pm

re: #218 enoughalready

Right there with ya. I think we both need a strong drink.

236 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:48:08pm

re: #233 pingjockey

That is about enough pandaring around!

Oh Pooh!

237 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:48:19pm

re: #231 reine.de.tout

Well, I'm a "pro-life" person, but would never murder anyone, nor would I do anything to Sala and his cat.

I hope you meant "some" pro-lifers.

I didn't mean to offend. I consider myself pro-life as well. I mean specifically the activist type that are fueled by the likes of Randall Terry.

238 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:48:34pm

re: #206 MandyManners


I wish I could give you 10000 updings

239 Bloodnok  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:48:44pm

re: #198 Pawn of the Oppressor

I've deleted several of my regular blog bookmarks in the last month or three. LGF is the last one left.

I can live with bad decisions made by politicians that are supposed to be representing my beliefs. I really can. Politicians can be voted out or can, at the very least be swayed back in line by pressure and opinion.

But I am having a MUCH tougher time witnessing the vile behavior of some of the people that claim to be on my side. This is their vile nature bubbling to the surface and it is pushing me away. It won't change my vision of how politics and the world works, but it will change who I will listen to and where my support is placed.

240 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:48:48pm

re: #207 reine.de.tout

Did you get my email last night?
This morning I decided to go ahead and write up a hydroponics article anyways. I figure I'll just add the disclaimer that it's fairly experimental and it's a primer for people to start their own experiments. I'm writing it now and might be finished by the end of the day.
I'm thinking maybe I won't submit a recipe, I'm already hogging up a lot of space in the cookbook.

241 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:48:57pm

re: #233 pingjockey

That is about enough pandaring around!

This thread is Oso predictable

242 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:49:05pm

re: #206 MandyManners

That guy is a really nasty piece of work!

243 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:49:44pm

re: #241 Desert Dog
Oh! Good one 5 points.

244 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:49:53pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

hydroponics are all wet

245 Vicious Babushka  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:49:54pm

re: #151 Steffan

IMHO, it's far more evil.

Murder in the first degree -- which this surely is -- is not excusable in any way, shape, or form. IIRC, the Biblical remedy for this was the (often painful and prolonged) death of the murderer. I don't recall, offhand, where that admonition is, but I think it may be in Deuteronomy.

Murdering someone in the presence of children is far worse. I sincerely hope that Kansas still has the death penalty.

Genesis 9:6: "Whoever sheds the blood of a man, by men shall his own blood be shed for G-d made man in his image." Nothing there about painful and prolonged.

246 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:50:01pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

Send me a copy, please? I'll help proofread it.

247 Wendya  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:50:01pm

re: #195 Steffan

He isn't quite at the Fred Phelps stage, but he's getting there.

He's right up there with Phelps but he's chosen to present a "more sane" face to the public.

248 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:50:14pm

re: #220 Sharmuta

I hope when he gets to this comment, Salamantis will take the time to once again describe what pro-lifers did to him, and his cat.

I don't think I've heard that story.

249 MandyManners  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:50:44pm

I'm watching L.A. Confidential, reading and posting here and reading The Closers by Michael Connelly. I'm gonna' lighten up my Sunday afternoon by taking The Kid to the park.

Have a good afternoon, Lizards. Hug someone you love.

250 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:50:45pm

re: #248 Jimmah

That's why I hope Sala shares it again.

251 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:50:56pm

re: #218 enoughalready

Just that the act, the very meaning of the act, is exactly the same. To create and spread fear among a specific group.

Yup.

Wasn't it the U.N. that couldn't (or wouldn't) come up with a legal definition of capital-T Terrorism? I tried to come up with one on my own and made up something like:

"The deliberate attacking of non-combatants with deadly force in order to influence political policy"

Of course, the civilized man's "non-combatant" is the terrorist's "enemy of (Allah/Gawd/Jesus/whoever)", so...

252 MarineMomSue  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:51:02pm

re: #30 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(1) I am utterly opposed to late-term abortion.

(2) I am GLAD the police have (what I sincerely hope) is the perp.

No matter WHAT Tiller did, there is NO excuse for his murder.
Anyone who claims there is a justification is (IMHO) guilty of murder too.

/Rant off ... and an up-ding to Sharm's #8 !


and to yours also!

253 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:51:33pm

re: #244 pre-Boomer Marine brat

hydroponics are all wet

Every time I heard the word "hydroponics", I cannot but help think about some hippie stoners growing some killer buds down in the basement.....I know it can be used to grow anything, but that is what comes into my mind for some reason.

254 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:51:34pm

re: #201 Charles

I'm sorry, but anything "decent" that comes out of Operation Rescue about this murder is nothing more than ass-covering. They feed the mentality that produces these kinds of crimes, and issue nudge-nudge, wink-wink statements when people take their encouragement to heart and commit murder.

The truth about Operation Rescue is right there in Randall Terry's vile remarks. Anything else is window dressing.

He's been pulling the same crap for at least the last 20 years.

Do we know what color the sky is on his planet?

255 neocon hippie  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:51:52pm

Let's all remember the 24-48 hour rule. While the killer may have been an anti-abortion nut, it's also possible that he killed Tiller for personal, non-political reasons. Hopefully the upcoming news conference will clarify

256 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:51:54pm

re: #218 enoughalready

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I'd ding you a million if only I could.

257 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:52:12pm

re: #254 Steffan

He's been pulling the same crap for at least the last 20 years.

Do we know what color the sky is on his planet?

Dark.

258 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:52:19pm

re: #246 Sharmuta

I'll definitely send you a preview. It's actually very easy to do but describing it is a little tough. I want to make sure people can understand it well enough to give it a try.

259 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:52:53pm

Taking a break. BBL

260 jvic  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:53:00pm

re: #138 Wendya

re: #134 Lawrior

I'd say Terry & co. get their validation directly from the Bible.

No, they get their validation from idiots.

Some of the validators are idiots. Some are insane. Some are evil.

261 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:53:01pm

re: #180 callahan23

Sure, all those like Kline and "operation rescue" who instigated this witch hunt are responsible.
If they wanted to fight abortion they shouldn't have made it personal in this case targeting Tiller. The correct way to 'fight' is to debate and discuss but never singling out one individual.
Reprehensible to the max.

Tiller was singled out for prosecution and ridicule because his actions were the most egregious of abortionists. He performed hundreds of late term abortions at (his price of) $5000 each and without good medical justification. Regardless one's position, Pro-Life or Choice, Tiller was one bad guy.

262 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:53:14pm

A true "Operation Rescue" would be giving support, both emotional and financial, to mothers thinking of aborting. And they would give support after the child is born, handling adoption should the mother chose to give the baby for adoption.
This "Operation Rescue" is certainly not that.

The only organization I have heard of that does support the women is in Israel.

263 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:53:49pm

I wanted to right something befitting here, but seeing what some of the defenders of this murder has written has made me lost for words, so all I will say is that right now my thoughts are with the Tiller family.

264 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:54:27pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

Did you get my email last night?
This morning I decided to go ahead and write up a hydroponics article anyways. I figure I'll just add the disclaimer that it's fairly experimental and it's a primer for people to start their own experiments. I'm writing it now and might be finished by the end of the day.
I'm thinking maybe I won't submit a recipe, I'm already hogging up a lot of space in the cookbook.

Just sent you an answer.

265 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:54:36pm

re: #241 Desert Dog

This thread is Oso predictable

Pooh, on it.

266 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:54:38pm

I've just posted a raw video clip showing the suspect sitting in a police car -- appears to be a middle-aged white man, partially balding.

You'll need to reload the page to see the video.

267 JammieWearingFool  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:54:38pm

re: #164 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Been away all weekend and just heard of this particular news (caught a game at Camden Yards - nice game, great seats). This news is sick stuff - both the murder of this particular doctor and then Operation Rescue's response.

Been down there a number of time. Where'd you sit? The mezzanine level where the suites are is really nice. If it's too hot you can always go inside where's there AC and and bars.

I'm going out to PNC Park in a couple of weeks.

268 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:54:45pm

re: #255 neocon hippie

Let's all remember the 24-48 hour rule. While the killer may have been an anti-abortion nut, it's also possible that he killed Tiller for personal, non-political reasons. Hopefully the upcoming news conference will clarify


With it being only several hours ago I doubt very much if the authorities will get into things like motive. They'll mostly stick to the "facts" as they know them. Tiller went to church, The nut was driving such and such a car. Type of gun,,,,

269 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:54:55pm

re: #253 Desert Dog

Every time I heard the word "hydroponics", I cannot but help think about some hippie stoners growing some killer buds down in the basement.....I know it can be used to grow anything, but that is what comes into my mind for some reason.

Well, it's like this - they've been some of the biggest users of the technology. To a certain extent, if you REALLY want to learn how it's done, you gotta go to them.

270 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:55:27pm

re: #237 Sharmuta

I didn't mean to offend. I consider myself pro-life as well. I mean specifically the activist type that are fueled by the likes of Randall Terry.

Yes, that guy seems to be really awful.

271 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:55:34pm

re: #261 unrealizedviewpoint

Tiller was singled out for prosecution and ridicule because his actions were the most egregious of abortionists. He performed hundreds of late term abortions at (his price of) $5000 each and without good medical justification. Regardless one's position, Pro-Life or Choice, Tiller was one bad guy.

Medical justification was required BY LAW. The prosecution he was singled out for failed because he proved he had followed that law.

272 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:55:58pm

re: #262 Kosh's Shadow

A true "Operation Rescue" would be giving support, both emotional and financial, to mothers thinking of aborting. And they would give support after the child is born, handling adoption should the mother chose to give the baby for adoption.
This "Operation Rescue" is certainly not that.

The only organization I have heard of that does support the women is in Israel.

There are organizations that do this, but they are usually local. There is a clinic in my hometown that was/is regularly protested. Across the street is a crisis pregnancy clinic that gives free ultrasounds and counseling. That clinic has saved more babies than the protesters ever did.

273 Desert Dog  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:56:09pm

re: #269 Guanxi88

Well, it's like this - they've been some of the biggest users of the technology. To a certain extent, if you REALLY want to learn how it's done, you gotta go to them.

Well, while in college, I probably did go to them, often! ;-)

274 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:56:14pm

re: #255 neocon hippie

Let's all remember the 24-48 hour rule. While the killer may have been an anti-abortion nut, it's also possible that he killed Tiller for personal, non-political reasons. Hopefully the upcoming news conference will clarify

I don't know anything about this Tiller guy, wasn't he shot once already?

The first thing that came to mind when the news reported his profession was "I wonder what his personal security arrangements were, or if anybody had tried to kill him before." I remember the stories years ago about anti-abortion websites compiling hit lists of doctors on the internet, which was a fairly new thing at the time, if I recall correctly.

It's going to be fun watching people try to spin this, and by "fun" I mean "disgusting".

275 Vicious Babushka  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:56:16pm

re: #262 Kosh's Shadow

A true "Operation Rescue" would be giving support, both emotional and financial, to mothers thinking of aborting. And they would give support after the child is born, handling adoption should the mother chose to give the baby for adoption.
This "Operation Rescue" is certainly not that.

The only organization I have heard of that does support the women is in Israel.

Efrat.

276 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:56:16pm

re: #201 Charles

I'm sorry, but anything "decent" that comes out of Operation Rescue about this murder is nothing more than ass-covering. They feed the mentality that produces these kinds of crimes, and issue nudge-nudge, wink-wink statements when people take their encouragement to heart and commit murder.

The truth about Operation Rescue is right there in Randall Terry's vile remarks. Anything else is window dressing.

That's the worst part of this: The murder itself is appalling but philosophically comprehensible since we can understand that there are going to be homicidal lunatics in a population of 300 million+.
What is much harder to accept is that thousands, perhaps millions, of otherwise decent people will gleefully endorse a cowardly murder in the lobby of a church. Yet that is exactly what is happening as this story unfolds and I am afraid it will get much much worse.

277 Code Red 21  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:56:27pm

You can't be pro-life and commit cold blooded murder the positions are diametrically opposed to one another. Throw the book at the him.

278 lawhawk  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:57:17pm

re: #267 JammieWearingFool

Field level, Section 28, which was right behind the Orioles on deck circle and had a perfect view of the 3b line. Most awesome seats I've ever had for a MLB game, and the tix weren't all that expensive (by ny standards). I can definitely see going back to games there - better food (and cheaper beer options than Yankee Stadium).

279 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:57:46pm

re: #266 Charles

I've just posted a raw video clip showing the suspect sitting in a police car -- appears to be a middle-aged white man, partially balding.

You'll need to reload the page to see the video.

Looked like he was wearing sunglasses. I'm surprised the police let him keep those on unless they were prescription

280 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:57:56pm

re: #264 reine.de.tout

Got it.

281 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:58:02pm

re: #273 Desert Dog

Well, while in college, I probably did go to them, often! ;-)

I think it's great the way the free market can so efficiently direct resources to the development of technologies.

Seriously, though, these growers know more about the ins and outs of hydroponic cultivation than anyone else. If NASA et al ever decide to try hydroponics in space, the biggest challenge facing them will be developing a space-safe method of smoking dope, for the technicians.

282 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:58:19pm

re: #261 unrealizedviewpoint

Tiller was singled out for prosecution and ridicule because his actions were the most egregious of abortionists. He performed hundreds of late term abortions at (his price of) $5000 each and without good medical justification. Regardless one's position, Pro-Life or Choice, Tiller was one bad guy.

Not according to the courts, his detractors charged him many times. The last time time spent a year investigating, four days of court time and the jury took less then a hour to find him innocent. By a pro life definition he was a bad guy, but legally not so much.

283 Salamantis  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:58:44pm

re: #209 Kreuzueber Halbmond

A copy of Turner Diaries was found in the car with Tim McVeigh when he was arrested. I wonder if a copy of Michael Bray's book A Time To Kill will be found in this antiabortion jihadist's car.

284 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:58:48pm

re: #266 Charles

I've just posted a raw video clip showing the suspect sitting in a police car -- appears to be a middle-aged white man, partially balding.

You'll need to to reload the page to see the video.

I wish the videographer would have zoomed in on that bumper sticker to see what it says

285 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:58:52pm

re: #89 Charles

That's exactly what it is. There isn't one word of condemnation for the murderer in Terry's statement.

Like condemnation with an askerisk. Friggin' weasel.

286 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:59:36pm

re: #266 Charles

I've just posted a raw video clip showing the suspect sitting in a police car -- appears to be a middle-aged white man, partially balding.

You'll need to reload the page to see the video.

If you hit the link that Charles posted with the video you can see segments of O'Reilly demagoguing against Dr. Tiller.

287 Bloodnok  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:59:45pm

I am dreading the right wing blogosphere reaction if the Obama administration condemns the murder.

288 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 1:59:52pm

re: #271 KansasMom

Medical justification was required BY LAW. The prosecution he was singled out for failed because he proved he had followed that law.

I guess you are okay with 'extreme late term' abortion. Some people are.

289 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:00:35pm

re: #287 Bloodnok
Completely, absolutley frothing at the mouth, howling at the moon, crazy!

290 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:00:50pm

Balloon Juice has some of the comments posted at the Free Republic here.

A sample:

What goes around comes around...

One less nazi as far as I am concerned.

This isn't good, boys and girls ... not good at all. This serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist, every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.

Obama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze [sic] even more control over our society.
I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze [sic] power. Reichstag Fire, and all that...

No doubt this ‘man’ is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his ‘passing’ is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don’t know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.

Frankly, I don’t give a damn what they say. I suspect more people than would publicly admit it are glad Tiller is dead. I doubt there will be a lot of Doctors lining up to take over his practice.

Like i said in my last post, I am lost for words.

291 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:01:04pm

At the parking lot where I work there is a junky old car. Shoe-polished on the rear window is "Abortion makes you a murderer". Cluttering up the inside are piles of pro-life leaflets and fast-food junk.
Nobody is ever parked next to it. The car itself has cooties.

I am honestly surprised to see a different car in the video.

292 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:09pm

re: #222 Thanos

It's embarrassing that they are both from Kansas.

You should not, in any way, be embarrassed about that. We certainly don't blame those morons on you.

I'm in California. Nancy Pelosi is from California. So was Richard Nixon.

Now that I think of it, George S. Patton was born in California.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.

:)

293 jaunte  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:15pm

ANTI-ABORTION EXTREMISTS/The Army Of God and Justifiable Homicide
[Link: www.prochoice.org...]

294 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:17pm

re: #277 Code Red 21

You can't be pro-life and commit cold blooded murder the positions are diametrically opposed to one another. Throw the book at the him.

I hope it's a heavy book.

295 ladycatnip  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:38pm

Had to come back from the garden briefly - I just remembered this scripture - it's directed to all those nutjobs who are actually happy about this man's murder:

"Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles [or is murdered], lest the Lord see it and it displease Him, and He turn away His wrath from him." Proverbs 24: 17, 18

back to my roses.

296 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:42pm

re: #276 Shiplord Kirel

That's the worst part of this: The murder itself is appalling but philosophically comprehensible since we can understand that there are going to be homicidal lunatics in a population of 300 million+.
What is much harder to accept is that thousands, perhaps millions, of otherwise decent people will gleefully endorse a cowardly murder in the lobby of a church. Yet that is exactly what is happening as this story unfolds and I am afraid it will get much much worse.

The term "cognitive dissonance" seems to come to mind...or perhaps just rank hypocracy.

297 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:49pm

re: #283 Salamantis

I wouldn't bet against it.

298 fizzlogic  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:52pm

In the primary leading up to the '06 election, Randall Terry ran against my state senator as the "true" Reagan conservative. Since then, every time I hear someone say they're a true conservative, I think of Randall Terry.

299 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:02:57pm

re: #292 Steffan

You should not, in any way, be embarrassed about that. We certainly don't blame those morons on you.

I'm in California. Nancy Pelosi is from California. So was Richard Nixon.

Now that I think of it, George S. Patton was born in California.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.

:)

Hey now... I voted for Nixon! :)

300 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:03:05pm

re: #286 Thanos

If you hit the link that Charles posted with the video you can see segments of O'Reilly demagoguing against Dr. Tiller.

Tiller deserved the criticism.
but we are a nation of law. Criticism does not mean go shoot somebody.

I don't want the actions of one murderer to shut down legitimate criticism of people who deserve it

301 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:03:22pm

Fox News is reporting Operation Rescue's ass-covering statement, but ignoring Randall Terry's ugly excuses for the murder.

302 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:03:57pm

re: #226 avanti

The issue can be Smokey.

On top of old Smokey,
All covered with hair,
Of course, I'm referring
To Smokey the Bear.
--Allan Sherman

303 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:04:33pm

re: #300 Shug

Tiller deserved the criticism.
but we are a nation of law. Criticism does not mean go shoot somebody.

I don't want the actions of one murderer to shut down legitimate criticism of people who deserve it

I'm with you.

304 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:04:48pm

re: #301 Charles

Fox News is reporting Operation Rescue's ass-covering statement, but ignoring Randall Terry's ugly excuses for the murder.

VERY interesting

305 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:06:12pm

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

Dr. George Tiller was a baby-killing monster who got what he deserved and is currently burning in Hell for his sins.

306 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:06:20pm

re: #301 Charles

Fox News is reporting Operation Rescue's ass-covering statement, but ignoring Randall Terry's ugly excuses for the murder.

Out of ignorance of the statement or otherwise?

Will be interesting to see if they acknowledge it later.

307 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:06:53pm

re: #282 avanti

Not according to the courts, his detractors charged him many times. The last time time spent a year investigating, four days of court time and the jury took less then a hour to find him innocent. By a pro life definition he was a bad guy, but legally not so much.

OJ got off the 1st time too.
/s
I don't know all the facts surrounding the case. Maybe the case was weak. I don't know
I know (based upon my morals, not religious belief) that Tiller was a monster.

308 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:06:57pm

re: #288 unrealizedviewpoint

I guess you are okay with 'extreme late term' abortion. Some people are.

In cases where the child has zero chance of survival outside of the womb, and the mother cannot emotionally handle the remaining time in the pregnancy. Or when the mother will die as a result of continuing the pregnancy. Then yes, I am allright with it.
He didn't only perform abortions. Some of the procedures were induced premature births where it was known the child could not survive. The parents chose to let the child be born and die earlier rather than at full term. They had their reasons.
Unless you are ever faced with such horrible circumstances, you cannot judge the women who needed him. Compassion is sorely missing from the pro-life debate in these cases.
Its NOT black and white. Not all women who have abortions are reckless or irresponsible. Some are in truly horrific circumstances and deserve compassion. Instead they get protesters and truth trucks.
I guess you're OK with that. Some people are.

309 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:04pm

re: #305 Charles

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

Oh crap!

310 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:18pm

re: #305 Charles

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

And reverted. Fast.

311 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:26pm

re: #262 Kosh's Shadow

A true "Operation Rescue" would be giving support, both emotional and financial, to mothers thinking of aborting. And they would give support after the child is born, handling adoption should the mother chose to give the baby for adoption.
This "Operation Rescue" is certainly not that.

The only organization I have heard of that does support the women is in Israel.

Well, and in the U.S., Catholic Charities provides that sort of support.

312 dapperdave  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:33pm

Wow! This whole thing is mind blowing.

313 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:40pm

re: #305 Charles

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

Give children unfettered and unsupervised access to the crayon box and a wall, the wall loses every time!

314 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:48pm

re: #295 ladycatnip

Had to come back from the garden briefly - I just remembered this scripture - it's directed to all those nutjobs who are actually happy about this man's murder:


"Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles [or is murdered], lest the Lord see it and it displease Him, and He turn away His wrath from him." Proverbs 24: 17, 18


back to my roses.

Oh I weep.
That is so right.
And this coming from an atheist.

315 TedStriker  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:07:58pm

re: #305 Charles

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

The monstrous ghouls couldn't even wait for the body to get cold and his killer to get cuffed and stuffed...people like that scare the shit out of me.

316 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:08:00pm

They fixed the Wikipedia page already. That was only up for a few minutes. Good for the Wikipedia editors.

317 lawhawk  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:08:02pm

It's one thing to be anti-abortion and hope to encourage women to give their children up for adoption instead of undergoing this procedure. It's quite another to openly welcome the murder of abortion doctors, which is (and has been) Terry's approach: to condone the murder of doctors and health professionals so as to intimidate others so to not consider providing this care.

318 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:08:21pm

re: #305 Charles

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

weird.
I saw that up for 1 second.
now it's back to normal

319 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:08:21pm

re: #305 Charles

The Wikipedia page for George Tiller has been defaced:

Lovely. What's next, crucifixion and beheading? Becoming what you hate the most is not progress, it's suicide.

320 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:08:32pm

re: #316 Charles

They fixed the Wikipedia page already. That was only up for a few minutes. Good for the Wikipedia editors.

maybe FR should try to get those guys on board? Just sayin'

321 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:09:00pm

Suspect is 51 years old.

322 eon  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:09:48pm

re: #301 Charles

Fox News is reporting Operation Rescue's ass-covering statement, but ignoring Randall Terry's ugly excuses for the murder.

It's a shame that the only part of the MSM we could count on for "fair and balanced" coverage seems to be OD'ing on Stupid Pills these days.

They're rapidly turning into the mirror image of MSNBC.

/Well, except with hotter female anchors.

As for Terry;

Creep. Period. Dot.

/My opinion of the murderer would be deleted for language, so I'm self-deleting it in advance.

cheers

eon

323 Preposter S  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:09:50pm

While this is a reprehensible murder; the suspect is in custody. People would do far better to contemplate on the fact we are on the verge of a world war in North East and South Asia:

North Korea has convinced the world the regime has out lived its usefulness. But who wants to lose a city to these monsters? This was the whole problem all along- you have a rogue regime, they have nukes and they threaten all their neighbors. Problem is any action might see Seoul hit by 300,000 conventional artillery shells and rockets in the first couple days of a war (the Norks have a huge conventional arsenal aimed at the South). That assumes the conflict stays conventional. In any war you get a huge mess that will affect the world economy for a couple of years.

South Asia is serving a double nuclear buffet: it looks like Pakistan is fighting to stay in the community of nations but who knows if they can defeat the deeply ingrained Islamists. That gets us to Iran who are openly in league with the North Koreans and every bit as well behaved.

The last few weeks have shown the danger of nuclear rogue regimes. Shame the lesson is lost on Date Night Barry. I could care less about the cost of his flight to NYC, I care about the cost in lives of having a certified Carterite Fool as President. He is fighting like a tiger to "solve" the mideast peace problem, while the real problem, the rogue regimes he reaches endlessly out to, grow ever more dangerous and are pushing the world to the brink of war.

324 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:10:49pm

The video isn't real clear, but I've been doing a mental inventory on the all the kooks I know (quite a few) to see if any of them match the suspect. So far, I'm drawing a blank, which is just as well.

325 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:10:55pm

re: #308 KansasMom

That's not the case with this Tiller guy.
Let's agree to disagree and drop it. Okay?
What a gorgeous dog you have (your avatar), just gorgeous.

326 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:10:57pm

If anyone can't see what an anchor to progress these types of people are to conservative causes, I just don't know what will turn on the light for them.

327 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:10:59pm

re: #323 Preposter S

While this is a reprehensible murder; the suspect is in custody. People would do far better to contemplate on the fact we are on the verge of a world war in North East and South Asia:

Yeah ,, because we NEVER talk about ANY of that stuff here !

/////

328 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:11:24pm

I'm ambivalent toward abortion but I can understand the lunacy that would drive a person on a mission from God or whatever...people believe very strongly that abortion is murder and that in turn this murder is justifiable...I'm not surprised and we may see more of it....pundits giving venue to extremists on any issue is dicey...there is personal responsibilities on both sides of these issues that is disregarded...gunning down this guy will only turn more lives upside down and needlessly charge up the political atmosphere....this whole incident is very bad all the way around...everybody loses bigtime

329 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:11:35pm

re: #316 Charles

They fixed the Wikipedia page already. That was only up for a few minutes. Good for the Wikipedia editors.

They were on standby.

330 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:11:41pm

re: #308 KansasMom

Great post. Others should read about a few real cases before assuming a total ban is appropriate.

late term

331 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:12:47pm

re: #317 lawhawk

It's one thing to be anti-abortion and hope to encourage women to give their children up for adoption instead of undergoing this procedure. It's quite another to openly welcome the murder of abortion doctors, which is (and has been) Terry's approach: to condone the murder of doctors and health professionals so as to intimidate others so to not consider providing this care.

What's really maddening is the number of folks like Terry who also don't want to support affordable, accessible contraception to young women so they might not even have to be in a position of having an unplanned pregnancy.

332 Salamantis  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:12:49pm

re: #220 Sharmuta

I hope when he gets to this comment, Salamantis will take the time to once again describe what pro-lifers did to him, and his cat.

They decided to go after me after I began volunteering as a NOW clinic escort in my home town of Pensacola, a town in which abortion clinics have been firebombed nearly a dozen times, and in which two doctors and one clinic escort have been murdered by two different people - Michael Griffin and the Methodist preacher Paul Hill. I just happened to drive by one day and saw women being beaten with wooden protest placards as they tried to enter or leave the clinics, so I began helping them in and out, shielding them with my body, and taking the blows intended for them on my own head and shoulders. The vicious and abusive protesters were bussed to the clinic on a weekly basis from a Southern Baptist and an Assembly of God church.

First, they illegally accessed my college transcripts, to help them build a profile to help them phone harrass me more effectively. I received sometimes hundreds of calls a day, for weeks on end, from many different phone booths by many different people, condemning and threatening me. When that didn't work, they began surveilling my home, trailing me wherever I went, and then they sabotaged my car. Finally, they strangled my family cat to death and hung it from a tree in my backyard by a noose around its neck, and safety pinned a note to its belly reading YOU'RE NEXT, BABY KILLER! But I never stopped helping those women.

Fucking bastards.

333 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:13:07pm

re: #324 Shiplord Kirel

The video isn't real clear, but I've been doing a mental inventory on the all the kooks I know (quite a few) to see if any of them match the suspect. So far, I'm drawing a blank, which is just as well.

Why Shiplord, you seem so sane! Operating in deep cover, are you? :)

334 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:13:50pm

re: #316 Charles

They fixed the Wikipedia page already. That was only up for a few minutes. Good for the Wikipedia editors.

TECHIE QUESTION

Could Wki have blocked access to that ONE bio (knowing someone would try to add something to it today, straight fact or vile) without compromising access for people to edit OTHER info today?

335 drogheda  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:14:14pm

re: #310 Fluffster

And reverted. Fast.

The offending IP address has also been temporarily blocked from editing Wikipedia for vandalism. The user at the offending IP address has already posted an appeal of their block BTW. Giving as the reason:


Reason for unblocking:
George Tiller WAS a baby-killing monster, and he IS certainly burning in Hell for his sins. These are FACTS.

Somehow I don't think the block will be lifted anytime soon.

336 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:14:15pm

re: #325 unrealizedviewpoint

That's not the case with this Tiller guy.
Let's agree to disagree and drop it. Okay?
What a gorgeous dog you have (your avatar), just gorgeous.

It is the case with this Tiller guy.
But yes, dropping it is probably the healthiest thing to do. So agreed.
Thank you, her name is Calypso.

337 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:14:48pm

re: #334 sattv4u2

TECHIE QUESTION

Could Wki have blocked access to that ONE bio (knowing someone would try to add something to it today, straight fact or vile) without compromising access for people to edit OTHER info today?

They sometimes mark pages as protected, thus disallowing edits by anonymous and new users.

338 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:14:58pm

Thanks, Sala.

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:15:00pm

re: #332 Salamantis

Dude.

340 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:15:51pm

re: #333 MacDuff

Why Shiplord, you seem so sane! Operating in deep cover, are you? :)

Living in Lubbock. I'm also a self-confessed gun nut so I meet a lot of these people at the range or hanging around my favorite weapons emporium.

341 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:15:52pm

re: #332 Salamantis

You are a hero.

342 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:15:58pm

re: #332 Salamantis

I guess that's what they mean by pro-life jihadis?....sorry to hear all the grief they put on you

343 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:16:12pm

re: #337 Fluffster

They sometimes mark pages as protected, thus disallowing edits by anonymous and new users.

Thanks (my 14 year old is never around when I need his help with the interwebbies)

344 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:16:20pm

re: #325 unrealizedviewpoint

That's not the case with this Tiller guy.
Let's agree to disagree and drop it. Okay?
What a gorgeous dog you have (your avatar), just gorgeous.

you and kansas mom might enjoy reading this

what the experts say, on both sides

345 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:16:30pm

re: #332 Salamantis

Friggin' domestic terrorism; conspiracy to use violence and/or the threat of violence, for the attainment of political objectives.

346 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:16:51pm

re: #332 Salamantis

Good grief!

Fucking bastards.

347 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:17:31pm

re: #335 drogheda

Somehow I don't think the block will be lifted anytime soon.

At least we now know he wasn't a scientologist.

Sorry, lame joke. Not really appropriate for the post i know.

Appologies.

348 NelsFree  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:17:47pm

I have read almost all the posts. No jokes or puns this time. I shall pray for Dr. Tiller's family and the members of their Church.
For Pawn and Satt: there are differences between the Old Testament, New Testament, and Qur'an. Let's not get into a shouting match right now. I'll be glad to compare and contrast another time.

349 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:18:40pm

re: #345 Guanxi88

Friggin' domestic terrorism; conspiracy to use violence and/or the threat of violence, for the attainment of political objectives.

conspiracy....in a way that's far worse than one deranged missionary assassin

350 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:19:08pm

re: #349 albusteve

conspiracy....in a way that's far worse than one deranged missionary assassin

In a lot of ways worse than one deranged lone gunman type. A lot worse.

351 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:19:33pm

re: #332 Salamantis

You are one brave soul. Glad to see some civic decency these days.

352 notutopia  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:19:34pm

re: #332 Salamantis

Sheer Insanity!
Thanks for taking the high road Salamantis and helping instead of ducking out! Kudos!
I am so sad for the loss of your precious cat.

353 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:19:42pm

re: #340 Shiplord Kirel

Living in Lubbock. I'm also a self-confessed gun nut so I meet a lot of these people at the range or hanging around my favorite weapons emporium.

And you deal with a lot of heavy crude at work, too.

/plagiarized that from a movie

354 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:19:58pm

re: #344 Shug

Interesting. One of the few balanced articles I have ever seen.
If only all discussion on abortion was like this.....

355 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:20:26pm

re: #353 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And you deal with a lot of heavy crude at work, too.

/plagiarized that from a movie

Texas: Lubbock, or leave it.

356 fizzlogic  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:20:29pm

re: #332 Salamantis

I still can't get over the pro-lifers beating drums and blowing horns outside the Hospice Terry Schiavo was in. They are truly sick.

I'm sorry to hear about your cat. It disgusts me--pro-life my ass.

357 MarineMomSue  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:20:49pm

re: #332 Salamantis

I'd not heard that story before, Salamantis. It is amazing and sad how completely deranged some people allow themselves to become toward those who hold opposing views.

I'd like to think there are pro-life folks who would also do what you did.

Kudos to you.

358 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:20:53pm

re: #334 sattv4u2

TECHIE QUESTION

Could Wki have blocked access to that ONE bio (knowing someone would try to add something to it today, straight fact or vile) without compromising access for people to edit OTHER info today?

Yes, they can lock individual pages

359 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:21:23pm

This is awful.

Bill O'Reilly (who on many things I am a fan) has been calling him "Tiller the Killer" for years.

Bill? You should also be ashamed of what has happened. Not saying it is your fault, but things build up. Unbalanced people listen to you too.

Words do mean things.

360 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:21:36pm

re: #356 trendsurfer

I still can't get over the pro-lifers beating drums and blowing horns outside the Hospice Terry Schiavo was in. They are truly sick.

I'm sorry to hear about your cat. It disgusts me--pro-life my ass.

It was the same group btw: Operation Rescue

361 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:22:12pm

Latest Update:

Det. Tom Stolz w/ Wichita Police Dept. says Dr. Tiller died of a single gunshot wound. A 51-year-old suspect is in custody in Johnson County. Police say the suspect was arrested without incident after a traffic stop.

Stolz says formal charges are expected Monday. Suspect faces one count of murder, two counts of aggravated assault. Detective says suspect threatened two others who tried to keep him from leaving the area.

[Link: www.kwch.com...]

362 Jetpilot1101  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:22:40pm

re: #332 Salamantis

I am pro-life and do not agree with the act of abortion but what you did Salamantis, to me is heroic. There are ways to disagree about issues like abortion; beating someone with a protest sign and killing cats are not acceptable ways. While we may disagree on the issue of abortion, you sir, are a hero and I respect you for what you did.

363 jaunte  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:22:52pm

re: #359 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have been trying to make this point today, too. I just don't write very well.

364 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:23:04pm

re: #268 sattv4u2

With it being only several hours ago I doubt very much if the authorities will get into things like motive. They'll mostly stick to the "facts" as they know them. Tiller went to church, The nut was driving such and such a car. Type of gun,,,,

If they've caught the actual killer, the emphasis shifts from "what" and "how" to "why."

I peeked. Kansas has a death penalty. I sincerely hope that they evoke this upon sentencing.

365 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:23:13pm

re: #356 trendsurfer

I still can't get over the pro-lifers beating drums and blowing horns outside the Hospice Terry Schiavo was in. They are truly sick.

I'm sorry to hear about your cat. It disgusts me--pro-life my ass.

I don't think it's ideology driven....these are behavioral problems....we have a fast and loose culture where kooks are under every rock and around every corner....personal responsibility is caving in to the collective

366 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:23:19pm

re: #357 MarineMomSue

Hello Sue. Well said.

367 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:23:22pm

re: #361 Gus 802

Latest Update:

Det. Tom Stolz w/ Wichita Police Dept. says Dr. Tiller died of a single gunshot wound. A 51-year-old suspect is in custody in Johnson County. Police say the suspect was arrested without incident after a traffic stop.

Stolz says formal charges are expected Monday. Suspect faces one count of murder, two counts of aggravated assault. Detective says suspect threatened two others who tried to keep him from leaving the area.

[Link: www.kwch.com...]

The first comment on that page:

Tiller is screaming as the demons rape him. The babies he murdered have been given their just regenge.

368 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:23:31pm

re: #361 Gus 802

Latest Update:

Detective says suspect threatened two others who tried to keep him from leaving the area.

[Link: www.kwch.com...]

For a man who did a "good" thing, he was sure as hell willing to injure or kill the innocent to get away, wasn't he?

369 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:24:29pm

re: #332 Salamantis

nice job.

but if I may ask, how on Earth could they get college transcripts, when you just stopped to help a person in distress?

370 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:24:37pm

re: #367 Charles
It doesn't seem like these folks imbibed the "milk of human kindness" does it?!

371 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:24:46pm

re: #363 jaunte

Just got here. Haven't had the time to go back. I'm sure you wrote well, silly.

372 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:24:51pm

re: #367 Charles

Yikes. I didn't read the comments. This event sure will show the true colors of a lot of folks.

373 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:24:54pm

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

374 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:25:11pm

re: #364 Steffan

If they've caught the actual killer, the emphasis shifts from "what" and "how" to "why."

I peeked. Kansas has a death penalty. I sincerely hope that they evoke this upon sentencing.

I don't. Like Jihadists, I would expect this nutcase to harbor visions of becoming some sort of martyr for the cause. Let him rot in some cell with a few nice, "friendly", inmates until he dies of old age.

375 notutopia  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:25:19pm

re: #367 Charles

okay, I'm physically sick now. Just sick and fed up with these hatefilled people. This statement is totally vile.

376 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:25:35pm

re: #359 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is awful.

Bill O'Reilly (who on many things I am a fan) has been calling him "Tiller the Killer" for years.

Bill? You should also be ashamed of what has happened. Not saying it is your fault, but things build up. Unbalanced people listen to you too.

Words do mean things.

nice...just fucking cool eh?...whatever happened to propriety in this country?

377 Gus  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:25:44pm

re: #368 Guanxi88

For a man who did a "good" thing, he was sure as hell willing to injure or kill the innocent to get away, wasn't he?

True. Makes me wonder what would have happened had Tiller not been alone in the lobby.

378 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:25:45pm

re: #364 Steffan

If they've caught the actual killer, the emphasis shifts from "what" and "how" to "why."

I peeked. Kansas has a death penalty. I sincerely hope that they evoke this upon sentencing.

I was responding to someone that hoped motive would be discussed at the news conference coming up soon. I speculated that the authorities will NOt get into that, rather sticking to known facts. Times, weapon used, where caught, name of officers that caught him, etc

379 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:26:23pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

They feel justified by their own sense of righteousness. It doesn't occur to them that their righteousness might be debatable.

380 eon  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:27:18pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Sir, I can only assume that they are (if you'll pardon my French) just plain batshit crazy.

/I could say more, but it would be a rant, and this is neither the time nor the place for same.

cheers

eon

381 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:27:22pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

base instinct...the net provides it

382 Jetpilot1101  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:27:33pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

If you ask me Charles, many of then who claim to be Christians have failed to pick up a Bible and read it. If they had, they would know that this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable. Unfortunately for folks like me and a few others who comment here (read Christians), we'll get lumped into this group of sickos. This type of s*** coming from "Christians" sickens me and really ticks me off.

383 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:27:37pm

re: #375 notutopia

okay, I'm physically sick now. Just sick and fed up with these hatefilled people. This statement is totally vile.

Same here. I have to swallow real hard not to puke.

384 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:27:47pm

re: #381 albusteve

a forum, that is

385 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:27:52pm

re: #356 trendsurfer

I still can't get over the pro-lifers beating drums and blowing horns outside the Hospice Terry Schiavo was in. They are truly sick.

I'm sorry to hear about your cat. It disgusts me--pro-life my ass.

The good thing about the Terry Schiavo case is it showed how fast the GOP could get things done when motivated. Sadly, the motivation was misdirected.

386 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:28:03pm

re: #367 Charles

The comments page is full of more like it.
I clicked "report as offensive" on several and then lost my stomach for it.

387 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:28:24pm

re: #386 KansasMom

The comments page is full of more like it.
I clicked "report as offensive" on several and then lost my stomach for it.

Augean Stables.

388 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:28:58pm

re: #369 Shug

get outta me head !

//

389 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:28:59pm

re: #386 KansasMom
I went and looked. Absolutely vile.

390 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:29:20pm

re: #372 Gus 802

Yikes. I didn't read the comments. This event sure will show the true colors of a lot of folks.

The thought occurs -- what if these individuals' comments were placed on billboards, along with names and photos?

I can think of lots of reasons why it shouldn't be done, however ... accountability anyone?

391 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:29:43pm

re: #386 KansasMom

The comments page is full of more like it.
I clicked "report as offensive" on several and then lost my stomach for it.

re: #389 pingjockey

I went and looked. Absolutely vile.

Don't get too close to that stuff. It'll splash around and it's almost impossible to get the stink out.

392 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:29:48pm

re: #362 Jetpilot1101

I am pro-life and do not agree with the act of abortion but what you did Salamantis, to me is heroic. There are ways to disagree about issues like abortion; beating someone with a protest sign and killing cats are not acceptable ways. While we may disagree on the issue of abortion, you sir, are a hero and I respect you for what you did.

re: #382 Jetpilot1101

If you ask me Charles, many of then who claim to be Christians have failed to pick up a Bible and read it. If they had, they would know that this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable. Unfortunately for folks like me and a few others who comment here (read Christians), we'll get lumped into this group of sickos. This type of s*** coming from "Christians" sickens me and really ticks me off.

You keep saying what I want to say; so I'll just stay quiet and repost your comments.

393 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:29:58pm

Statement from Dr. Tiller's Family:

Dan Monnat and Lee Thompson, Dr. George Tiller's attorneys, issued the following statement today at the request of Mrs. Jeanne Tiller, the Tiller's four children and ten grandchildren:

"Today we mourn the loss of our husband, father and grandfather. Today's event is an unspeakable tragedy for all of us and for George's friends and patients. This is particularly heart wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace.

We would like to express the family's thanks for the many messages of sympathy from our friends and from all across the nation. We also want to thank the law enforcement officers who are investigating this crime.

Our loss is also a loss for the City of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality heath care despite frequent threats and violence. We ask that he be remembered as a good husband, father and grandfather and a dedicated servant on behalf of the rights of women everywhere."

394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:29:58pm

re: #373 Charles

See why I don't go to other sites?

395 Salamantis  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:30:19pm

re: #369 Shug

nice job.

but if I may ask, how on Earth could they get college transcripts, when you just stopped to help a person in distress?

They took down my license plate number, and had a mole in the Department of Transportation run it for them. That's how they found out where I lived; then it was a simple matter to look up my phone number. Then they tailed me to college, thus finding out that I was attending, and had a mole in the college clerical staff (a wife of an associate preacher at the Assembly of God Church) illegally access my transcripts.

396 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:30:43pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

They feel justified by their own sense of righteousness. It doesn't occur to them that their righteousness might be debatable.

Nor does it occur to them that they are not in charge of the judging.

397 [deleted]  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:30:45pm
398 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:31:05pm

re: #396 reine.de.tout

Nor does it occur to them that they are not in charge of the judging.

True.

399 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:31:20pm

re: #395 Salamantis

They took down my license plate number, and had a mole in the Department of Transportation run it for them. That's how they found out where I lived; then it was a simple matter to look up my phone number. Then they tailed me to college, thus finding out that I was attending, and had a mole in the college clerical staff (a wife of an associate preacher at the Assembly of God Church) illegally access my transcripts.

I hope somebody went to jail over this

400 Guanxi88  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:31:35pm

re: #393 Thanos

Statement from Dr. Tiller's Family:

Notice - they make NO POLITICAL POINTS AT ALL.

You Operation Rescue folk might wanna take notes, here. They treat a murder as a murder, not as an occasion for the making of political points.

401 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:31:43pm

re: #287 Bloodnok

I am dreading the right wing blogosphere reaction if the Obama administration condemns the murder.

There is no reason why the Obama admistration should not condemn the murder.

402 [deleted]  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:32:05pm
403 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:32:18pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

KWCh.com does not require people to register before commenting. They also don't moderate very well. They attract the trolls and crazies.

404 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:32:55pm

take out 402 please

405 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:33:04pm

Thanks to Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit for deleting all the comments at his blog trashing me, and the comments celebrating the Tiller murder.

406 [deleted]  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:33:07pm
407 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:33:30pm

re: #395 Salamantis

They took down my license plate number, and had a mole in the Department of Transportation run it for them. That's how they found out where I lived; then it was a simple matter to look up my phone number. Then they tailed me to college, thus finding out that I was attending, and had a mole in the college clerical staff (a wife of an associate preacher at the Assembly of God Church) illegally access my transcripts.

You should have used this
[Link: www.wartmolevanish.com...]

408 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:33:46pm

re: #406 suntory_boss

So we should have kind words for Arafat on here while he was still alive? I don't understand the double standard.

doesn't seem you do

409 dapperdave  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:18pm

re: #373 Charles

They're sick Charles, I don't agree with abortion, as a matter of fact I believe it is murder but repaying evil with evil is wrong, this guy took matters into his own hands and I hope he gets punished within the full extent of the law.

410 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:23pm

re: #406 suntory_boss

Get off my website.

411 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:39pm

re: #406 suntory_boss

GAZE

412 Shug  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:41pm

I want to adress this comment

Shug (-8)
He's facing judgement now and not liking it .....as will his murderer some day.

Sometimes in the heat of the moment things come out wrong.

I believe that Tiller did evil deeds on this Earth, but it is up to God to judge him Not me.
I spoke on behalf of God, which I should not have
His murderer will also be judged one day, again by God, not by me.

I don't want to be seen in the same light as the people who are celebrating his death, because as I have stated many times, I am not.

just to clarify

413 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:44pm

re: #405 Charles

Thanks to Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit for deleting all the comments at his blog trashing me, and the comments celebrating the Tiller murder.

Kudos Gateway

414 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:47pm

DON"T QUOTE DELETED COMMENTS! You'll get your post whacked!

415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:48pm

re: #397 suntory_boss

Don't you have a frightened woman to terrorize?

(was not my point, and you know it.)

416 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:34:52pm

re: #410 Charles

Get off my website.

Thank you!

417 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:00pm

re: #410 Charles

Get off my website.

The hell with that. Get off my PLANET!

418 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:15pm

I think this is the tip of the iceberg as far as vileness goes. Imagine if we were discussing a high profile Democrat. The thought makes me sick.

419 jaunte  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:24pm

That Arafat comment made no sense.

420 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:36pm

re: #417 sattv4u2
It's gone.

421 MarineMomSue  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:38pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

They feel justified by their own sense of righteousness. It doesn't occur to them that their righteousness might be debatable.

I seem to remember something about a "Golden Rule"...
Doesn't it say something like "Do onto others?

What a sad state this old world seems to have descended into

422 solomonpanting  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:40pm

re: #414 pingjockey

DON"T QUOTE DELETED COMMENTS! You'll get your post whacked!

That's gotta hurt.

423 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:35:46pm

re: #414 pingjockey

DON"T QUOTE DELETED COMMENTS! You'll get your post whacked!

Gotta be clairvoyant to know they're GONNA be deleted!

//

424 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:36:00pm

re: #410 Charles

Get off my website.

heh, you're slowing down in your old age
I had the chance to take a shot at him

425 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:36:15pm

There is also this from the comments at Channel 12

Dr. Tiller was therefor my husband and I in a time ofgreat need. As I carried a SEVERLY sick child that would have suffered his entire short life, Dr. Tiller was the only one who could/would help us and did. At 27 weeks pregnant Dr.Tiller surrounded us in love,understanding and extremly good medical care. Care that could not be provided any where else, care that was not covered by my insurance despite the medical neccesity. In this country so many people judge abortion and a womens right to choose. Before you make a decision put yourself in my shoes, not allowed to make a choice to keep my child from suffering because other people decided that I didnt have the right to protect my baby from suffering. I was a young woman happily marrried in my early 20's, educated and wanting that child. Dr. Tiller helpedme save my baby from pain, and saved me and my husband from the pain of loosing an Infant. It was hard, there are still bad days but I thank god every day for HERO's like Dr. Tiller. People who fight for those who cannot, people who makethis world a better place through love and caring and never giving up. Thank you Dr. Tiller and your family for all you have done and the support you providedhim. Thank you for not giving up. Thank You.

426 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:36:47pm

re: #423 sattv4u2
Nah. Just look at the bs it was spewing!

427 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:37:07pm

Abortion is murder, maybe. But murder is murder most definitely, and must be prosecuted as such to the fullest. No excuse for this crime, at all.

428 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:37:08pm

re: #332 Salamantis

That's when you start carrying an ax handle, at the very least.

If that doesn't stop them, a dose from ol' Dr. Twelve Gauge might.

429 Bloodnok  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:37:22pm

re: #401 Steffan

There is no reason why the Obama admistration should not condemn the murder.

I agree. My comment was not expressing a desire for the administration not to condemn it. Rather it's just making the easy prediction that, once done, the right wing blogosphere will embarrass itself further. I'm not a part of that scene, so it doesn't matter much to me. But unfortunately it will reflect on the right as a whole. It's not fair, but it's the way things are.

430 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:37:40pm

re: #421 MarineMomSue

I seem to remember something about a "Golden Rule"...
Doesn't it say something like "Do onto others?

What a sad state this old world seems to have descended into

Yeah- something about to err is human and to forgive Divine. Love each other as I have loved you....

Sad.

431 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:37:41pm

re: #420 pingjockey

It's gone.

Take a few pings.
See if it's intact ... or if it got chopped up by the screws.

432 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:38:27pm

re: #426 pingjockey

Nah. Just look at the bs it was spewing!

Heat of the moment. You see a stupid comment and automatically want to respond. You hit QUOTE as a matter of course.

433 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:38:38pm

re: #417 sattv4u2

The hell with that. Get off my PLANET!

As long as he doesn't end up on my planet...

/Pluto is still MY planet!

434 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:38:44pm

re: #425 Shiplord Kirel

Now I'm crying.

435 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:38:47pm

re: #431 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Fish bait! I think stinky diced it up.

436 The Shadow Do  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:39:24pm

Sure are a lot of people gettin' they hate on today.

Sure are a lot of people who need to be on the receiving end of a big bucketful of cold water.

437 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:39:31pm

Jim Hoft is the only right-wing blogger who has ever taken action when the haters start posting ugly comments about me, and I appreciate it.

Some of the other bloggers who allow it to take place are doing it because they think they're going to increase their traffic at my expense.

438 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:39:36pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Obviously, blood lust isn't just for Muslims. It's an equal opportunity disorder.

439 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:39:44pm

re: #418 Sharmuta

I think this is the tip of the iceberg as far as vileness goes. Imagine if we were discussing a high profile Democrat. The thought makes me sick.

OTOH some of it is so beyond the pale I wonder if they believe what they are saying...there may be some insidious group psychology going on...a Hooligan effect or whatever...I'm having a little trouble with it...these are not good people or they might be but just use the web to vent over the top....either way there is a disconnect in there, and it's very dangerous

440 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:39:47pm

re: #432 sattv4u2
Ya. I don't quote, just reply.

441 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:40:01pm

re: #405 Charles

Thanks to Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit for deleting all the comments at his blog trashing me, and the comments celebrating the Tiller murder.

Credit where do.

442 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:40:41pm

re: #438 MacDuff

fanaticism is fanaticism is fanaticism.

443 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:41:11pm

re: #437 Charles

Jim Hoft is the only right-wing blogger who has ever taken action when the haters start posting ugly comments about me, and I appreciate it.

Some of the other bloggers who allow it to take place are doing it because they think they're going to increase their traffic at my expense.

Thank you, Jim.

444 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:41:12pm

re: #433 Fluffster

As long as he doesn't end up on my planet...

/Pluto is still MY planet!

Image: XkcdPluto.png

Just saying ..

445 Vicious Babushka  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:41:29pm

re: #395 Salamantis

They took down my license plate number, and had a mole in the Department of Transportation run it for them. That's how they found out where I lived; then it was a simple matter to look up my phone number. Then they tailed me to college, thus finding out that I was attending, and had a mole in the college clerical staff (a wife of an associate preacher at the Assembly of God Church) illegally access my transcripts.

Have you pressed charges against these people who invaded your privacy, harassed you, vandalized your property and killed your pet?

446 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:41:50pm

re: #442 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

fanaticism is fanaticism is fanaticism.

Alas, so true.

447 Ojoe  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:41:54pm

Oh no.

448 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:41:56pm

re: #438 MacDuff

Obviously, blood lust isn't just for Muslims. It's an equal opportunity disorder.

There's no group so pious that you can't find an insufferable idiot among them...

449 eon  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:42:07pm

re: #440 pingjockey

Ya. I don't quote, just reply.

I count to ten before I do either.

Nine times out of ten, by the time I'm done, the Lizard Master and Stinky have already dealt with the problem.

/One more reason to love LGF.

cheers

eon

450 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:42:16pm

re: #440 pingjockey

Ya. I don't quote, just reply.

Ya ,, but then if i'm not the commenter you're replying too and I want to see what the "debate" is about, I have to scroll back (or click the number) to see!

The Quote function is helpful, IMHO

451 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:43:20pm

re: #435 pingjockey

Fish bait! I think stinky diced it up.

Fond memories of coming back from WestPac in '66, straight across from Yoko to Alameda. Some guys from the welding shop just off the fantail made a big hook out of half-inch steel rod, got a slab of beef from the galley, and trolled it off the fantail at the end of a quarter-inch cable.

Lord only knows what they were after.

452 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:43:42pm

re: #450 sattv4u2

I understand that. I just hate seein' folks posts get deleted cause they're arguing with troll/asshat/idjit.

453 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:43:45pm

re: #449 eon

I count to ten before I do either.

Nine times out of ten, by the time I'm done, the Lizard Master and Stinky have already dealt with the problem.

/One more reason to love LGF.

cheers

eon

LGF is the most well-run site I know of.
Its why I like it too.

454 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:44:00pm

re: #439 albusteve

OTOH some of it is so beyond the pale I wonder if they believe what they are saying...there may be some insidious group psychology going on...a Hooligan effect or whatever...I'm having a little trouble with it...these are not good people or they might be but just use the web to vent over the top....either way there is a disconnect in there, and it's very dangerous

It is the crudest kind of triumphalism. Tiller was the highest of high profile targets for these nuts. They had been gunning for him for 20 years, literally, and they finally got him. They remind me of the hominid tribe in 2001: A Space Odyssey after they use their newly-discovered weapons to rout the rival tribe.

455 Salamantis  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:44:00pm

re: #399 Shug

I hope somebody went to jail over this

Nope. Couldn't prove a thing. But I did help to send another of them to prison.

Joan Andrews, a radical Catholic antiabortionist, posed as a woman seeking an abortion to gain acess to the Ladies Center clinic, then went on a rampage once inside and wrecked medical equipment. She was arrested on a misdemeanor charge of property destruction.

A mole we had in the antiaborrtion camp had furnished us with the phone number of the Pro Life Action Newsline, where all these people from across the nation would call and get their recorded updates and marching orders from former Catholic priest Joseph Scheidler of Chicago, the guy who wrote the sabotage manual Closed: 99 Ways To Stop Abortion. When Joan Andrews failed to appear for her arraignment, I called the number and found out that she couldn't show because she was in jail, having been arrested for the doing the very same thing at a clinic in St. Louis.

I told the local newspaper and the local television station about this fact, gave them both the phone number to check it out themselves, and told each of them that I'd told the other one, so they would have to run with it for fear of being scooped by the competition and being seen as suppressing legitimate news. Due to the publicity, the court ordered a pre-trial investigation that determined that she had done the same thing at more than 120 clinics in the previous two years; apparently these people were paying to ship her from clinic to clinic across the nation to vandalize them. As a felony repeat offender, she received 5 years instead of the 90 days she would have most likely otherwise received.

Our Catholic governor released her early.

456 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:44:03pm

re: #452 pingjockey

I understand that. I just hate seein' folks posts get deleted cause they're arguing with troll/asshat/idjit.

thanks ,,,

457 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:44:03pm

re: #450 sattv4u2

Ya ,, but then if i'm not the commenter you're replying too and I want to see what the "debate" is about, I have to scroll back (or click the number) to see!

The Quote function is helpful, IMHO

Quoting keeps the flow moving.

458 HAL2010  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:44:16pm
Kansas's former Attorney General Phil Kline, an anti-abortion crusader who brought an unsuccessful prosecution against Tiller, denounced the murder this afternoon. "I am stunned by this lawless and violent act which must be condemned and should be met with the full force of law. We join in lifting prayer that God's grace and presence rest with Dr. Tiller's family and friends," he said in a statement through a spokesman.

From politico.

459 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:45:03pm

re: #441 avanti

Yer karma's goin' t' heaven ina handbasket, Chief!

460 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:45:19pm

re: #457 callahan23

Quoting keeps the flow moving.

so do prunes!

461 DEZes  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:45:41pm

I see we had a few melt downs.
Insanity.

462 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:45:45pm

re: #448 Fluffster

There's no group so pious that you can't find an insufferable idiot among them...

I think that "pious" is the key word. Pious isn't (or shouldn't be) the end we seek; humility should be that to which we aspire.

463 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:46:01pm

re: #461 DEZes

I see we had a few melt downs.
Insanity.

BURP ,, wha!?!?!?!

464 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:46:04pm

re: #451 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Megaladon! We did that in Diego Garcia while anchored out and caught a 14+ foot Tiger shark. Had it tied off on the aft capstan once it was dead the other sharks ate it!

465 Ojoe  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:46:34pm

People who really try to be Christian in the best sense will never hear the end of this.

466 DEZes  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:46:38pm

re: #463 sattv4u2

BURP ,, wha!?!?!?!

Was that my beer?

467 albusteve  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:46:42pm

re: #454 Shiplord Kirel

It is the crudest kind of triumphalism. Tiller was the highest of high profile targets for these nuts. They had been gunning for him for 20 years, literally, and they finally got him. They remind me of the hominid tribe in 2001: A Space Odyssey after they use their newly-discovered weapons to rout the rival tribe.

well said....they wield their jawbone of justice....how civilized

468 solomonpanting  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:47:32pm

re: #454 Shiplord Kirel

They remind me of the hominid tribe in 2001: A Space Odyssey after they use their newly-discovered weapons to rout the rival tribe.

For a monment there I thought you were referencing 9-11-2001.

469 wiffersnapper  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:47:38pm

There's no such thing as right wing extremists!

/////////////sarcasm to the max (obviously)

470 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:47:59pm

re: #455 Salamantis

You are outstanding and a 'mensch'.
(Salamantis)

471 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:48:20pm

re: #462 MacDuff

I think that "pious" is the key word. Pious isn't (or shouldn't be) the end we seek; humility should be that to which we aspire.

You're right. My apologies for my broken English, passable grammar is easy enough* but your vocabulary plays tricks on me!

*good enough for the intarwebs at least

472 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:48:31pm

re: #464 pingjockey

Megaladon! We did that in Diego Garcia while anchored out and caught a 14+ foot Tiger shark. Had it tied off on the aft capstan once it was dead the other sharks ate it!

Must have been quite a photo op.

473 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:49:02pm

re: #459 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yer karma's goin' t' heaven ina handbasket, Chief!

Quite, someone will notice and I'll be back down to minus 2000 by the weekend. :)

474 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:49:26pm

White supremacists, anti-abortion extremists, and patriot conspiracists are the unholy trinity. Fuck rebuilding the Republican party as long as they are camped on the lawn.

475 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:49:32pm

re: #395 Salamantis

They took down my license plate number, and had a mole in the Department of Transportation run it for them. That's how they found out where I lived; then it was a simple matter to look up my phone number. Then they tailed me to college, thus finding out that I was attending, and had a mole in the college clerical staff (a wife of an associate preacher at the Assembly of God Church) illegally access my transcripts.

Your story raises some real concern about my ex-wife, whom I have discussed many times here in a lighter vein. Like her detestable husband (my traitorous brother "Judas"), she is a fundamentalist fanatic, crusading variously against public schools, evolution, and (of course) legal abortion. She also happens to be a senior bureaucrat at a notably liberal northeastern university.

476 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:50:37pm

OT ,, (and a repeat for some)

But to lighten up the mood a little

Two VERY great moments at the Georgia Secial Olympics yesterday. I was assigned to help at the Aquatics ctr. Swimming races once across the pool and back. One kid finishes, gets out of the pool, spies his parents and family in the stands and yells out
"MOM ,,, I DIDN'T PEE IN THE POOL!"

The other. Most of the kids made it back and forth in 1:40-1;50 minutes (the lanes were set by the width of the pool, not the length)
It toom one straggler over 8 minutes. The reason was he would take 4 swimming strokes, stop, tread water and wave at EVERY person he could spy in the stands (4 sided) . When he got out I spoke to his older sister. Seems as if last year he could onlt perform 2 stokes before he had to stop and re-orient himself. he was SO proud he could now do 4 strokes!

I had a smile ear to ear as tears streamed down my face !

477 MacDuff  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:51:07pm

re: #471 Fluffster

You're right. My apologies for my broken English, passable grammar is easy enough* but your vocabulary plays tricks on me!

*good enough for the intarwebs at least

No apologies necessary. My comment wasn't a criticism, merely an expansion on yours.

478 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:51:42pm

re: #471 Fluffster

You're right. My apologies for my broken English, passable grammar is easy enough* but your vocabulary plays tricks on me!

*good enough for the intarwebs at least

You're doing okay.

Where are you -- or what original nationality?

479 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:52:01pm

re: #472 pre-Boomer Marine brat
It was one of the damndest things I have ever seen. The snipes had made a big ass treble hook in engineering. One of the cooks gave them a huge hunk of raw roast beast, they had a chain leader tied off to a wire rope. I go out to check on my troops who are supposed to be restowing mooring lines and there is this crowd around the aft starboard side. Sharks all over the damn place, blood, froth, I'd have liked to had a video camera!

480 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:52:26pm

re: #470 callahan23

You are outstanding and a 'mensch'.
(Salamantis)

Totally off topic question for a Jewish Lizard. While in the Navy, my Jewish buddy would share a kind of Jewish candy he'd be sent in a can. It was very sweet as I recall and I think we ate it with a spoon. Any ideas ?

481 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:52:37pm

re: #461 DEZes

I see we had a few melt downs.
Insanity.

The dialogue has been especially civil considering the subject matter and the usual impassioned responses when the subject of abortion is raised elsewhere. Lizards are civil beings.

482 RememberSekhmet?  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:53:11pm

Who can argue for the sanctity of life with blood on their hands?
Who can argue for the rule of law when acting as a vigilante?

Actions peak louder than words. This man's actions should be denounced far and wide.

483 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:53:19pm

re: #476 sattv4u2

OT ,, (and a repeat for some)
"MOM ,,, I DIDN'T PEE IN THE POOL!"

Oh, that's classic! Thanks for the comic relief.
(Probably a relief of a different sort for other swimmers about to enter the pool!)

484 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:53:38pm

re: #473 avanti

Quite, someone will notice and I'll be back down to minus 2000 by the weekend. :)

*grin*

Whether I always agree with you or not, you're a valuable Lizard.

/and, as someone said a day or two ago -- a gentleman.

485 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:53:44pm

re: #474 Kreuzueber Halbmond

White supremacists, anti-abortion extremists, and patriot conspiracists are the unholy trinity. Fuck rebuilding the Republican party as long as they are camped on the lawn.

Rebuild the big tent, and leave them on the friggin lawn.

486 Charles Johnson  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:53:45pm

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

487 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:53:52pm

re: #473 avanti

Quite, someone will notice and I'll be back down to minus 2000 by the weekend. :)

How long till we can get avanti into the green?

488 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:54:36pm

re: #480 avanti

Halvah?

489 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:54:39pm

re: #484 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin*

Whether I always agree with you or not, you're a valuable Lizard.

/and, as someone said a day or two ago -- a gentleman.

Back at ya sailor.

490 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:54:47pm

re: #476 sattv4u2
Very cool! My 15 year old volunteered for the WA state Spec. Olympics for the winter games. It changed his outlook quite a bit. Yaaay!

491 lostlakehiker  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:54:52pm

re: #332 Salamantis

They decided to go after me after I began volunteering as a NOW clinic escort in my home town of Pensacola, a town in which abortion clinics have been firebombed nearly a dozen times, and in which two doctors and one clinic escort have been murdered by two different people - Michael Griffin and the Methodist preacher Paul Hill. I just happened to drive by one day and saw women being beaten with wooden protest placards as they tried to enter or leave the clinics, so I began helping them in and out, shielding them with my body, and taking the blows intended for them on my own head and shoulders. The vicious and abusive protesters were bussed to the clinic on a weekly basis from a Southern Baptist and an Assembly of God church.

First, they illegally accessed my college transcripts, to help them build a profile to help them phone harrass me more effectively. I received sometimes hundreds of calls a day, for weeks on end, from many different phone booths by many different people, condemning and threatening me. When that didn't work, they began surveilling my home, trailing me wherever I went, and then they sabotaged my car. Finally, they strangled my family cat to death and hung it from a tree in my backyard by a noose around its neck, and safety pinned a note to its belly reading YOU'RE NEXT, BABY KILLER! But I never stopped helping those women.

Fucking bastards.

Good for you. Sometimes courage is the only way. These guys can't actually carry through on their threats in any systematic way, because any time they do, the law is all over them. This killing today is a case in point; murder and arrest in the same day.

Honestly, though---to lynch a cat? Do they idly pull the wings off flies while at "prayer"?

On top of everything else, they're scoring "own goals" right and left with this sadistic nonsense. It scuttles the arguments of those who think that a birth rate below replacement is a bad idea and that healthy women carrying healthy fetuses carry the future in their womb and while they have a right (whether it's a moral right is another question, but as things stand, it is definitely a political and judicial right) to kill it rather than go to the trouble of pregnancy and labor, we would be much obliged and would owe them some gratitude if they could find it in their heart to carry the child to term and maybe even raise it.

492 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:55:27pm

re: #479 pingjockey

It was one of the damndest things I have ever seen. The snipes had made a big ass treble hook in engineering. One of the cooks gave them a huge hunk of raw roast beast, they had a chain leader tied off to a wire rope. I go out to check on my troops who are supposed to be restowing mooring lines and there is this crowd around the aft starboard side. Sharks all over the damn place, blood, froth, I'd have liked to had a video camera!

... and your pulse raced for a moment, because you thought it might be that jerk who worked down in ...

/ *grin*

493 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:55:35pm

re: #378 sattv4u2

I was responding to someone that hoped motive would be discussed at the news conference coming up soon. I speculated that the authorities will NOt get into that, rather sticking to known facts. Times, weapon used, where caught, name of officers that caught him, etc

There are five questions that need to be asked in this, or ANY, case.

These questions are, allegedly, the questions that journalists are supposed to answer, or so says the AP Guidebook.

WHO
WHAT
WHEN
HOW
WHY

Without those answers, your case is inconclusive at best.

494 debutaunt  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:55:56pm

re: #82 Fluffster

Wow, that was quick. I wish more criminals used vanity plates.

"I DID IT"

495 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:55:58pm

re: #483 KansasMom

Oh, that's classic! Thanks for the comic relief.
(Probably a relief of a different sort for other swimmers about to enter the pool!)

I didn't talk to his family, but I'm guessing that all during the build up to him practicing and getting to the Olympics his mom and family would admonish him not too.

I did talk to the other family and every day from last years their child PROMISED that he would do 4 strokes, not only 2

496 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:56:08pm

re: #488 KansasMom

Halvah?

That's it ! I kept thinking it was hala- something. WTF is in the stuff.

497 Hengineer  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:56:33pm

re: #486 Charles

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

Not surprised. Once when leaving my church (and again at the local junior college) there was this guy with his head shaved, wearing a white t-shirt and combat fatigue pants and (obviously) combat boots. He was passing out a flier preaching "Yes God DOES Hate! He Hates (fags...etc....)".

You almost want people to see how bad they are, but you also don't want to give them another audience.

498 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:56:42pm

re: #486 Charles

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

IMHO, it would be a public service.
This cannot be allowed to run below the radar.

499 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:57:00pm

re: #486 Charles
What else can they do to you? They already want to tar and feather you or worse. Those of us here are an 'echo chamber'.....right. Fuck 'em all and post what YOU want.

500 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:57:23pm

re: #489 avanti

Back at ya sailor.

Thanks.

501 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:57:36pm

All I aspire to is to respect others as I would rightfully expect them to respect me.

And being an atheist (which I dont like saying because there doesnt need to be a word that describes disbelief in something) I ultimately believe in two things. Love and hope.

502 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:58:03pm

re: #492 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Mwahahaha! Actually I was worried about one of the 'kids' falling overboard trying to see the show!

503 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:58:11pm

re: #489 avanti

Back at ya sailor.

re: #500 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks.

geeeezzzz,, get a room you two !

///////

504 Hengineer  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:58:22pm

re: #492 pre-Boomer Marine brat

... and your pulse raced for a moment, because you thought it might be that jerk who worked down in ...

/ *grin*

Hey Hey!

There'll be none of that kind of talk!


/Merchant Marine Engineer out

505 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:58:42pm

re: #494 debutaunt

"I DID IT"

Some people even title their books with...

506 enoughalready  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:58:42pm

Salamantis.

I will try to put this in a way that makes sense. One can serve a nation in many ways and there are times when I wish we could hand out decorations of distinguished services to humanity on the smaller scale. If it was in my power to do that then consider yourself decorated. There are far too few of us (as a species) who will actually act humanely.

Above and beyond. I salute you.

507 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 2:58:53pm

re: #496 avanti

That's it ! I kept thinking it was hala- something. WTF is in the stuff.

I think its made from sesame paste. Yummy stuff!
I buy it locally at an Indian market.

508 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:00:41pm

re: #501 justdanny

All I aspire to is to respect others as I would rightfully expect them to respect me.

And being an atheist (which I dont like saying because there doesnt need to be a word that describes disbelief in something) I ultimately believe in two things. Love and hope.


and yet you've mentioned it at least twice today!

509 [deleted]  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:00:42pm
510 avanti  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:01:16pm

re: #503 sattv4u2

geeeezzzz,, get a room you two !

///////

Well, after a few months at sea..... :)

511 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:01:34pm

re: #508 sattv4u2


Im an atheist
Im an atheist
Im an atheist

Thats five times.

512 Sharmuta  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:02:03pm

re: #486 Charles

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

Do what you think you need to do, Charles.

513 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:02:11pm

I'm an atheist.

six

514 Perplexed  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:02:17pm

I am pro-life myself, and find this murder to be disgusting. We are supposed to be a nation of laws and if a law is found repugnant, then go through the legal process of changing that law.

Sorry, Salamantis, for what those folks did to you and your family.

515 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:02:21pm

re: #480 avanti

Totally off topic question for a Jewish Lizard. While in the Navy, my Jewish buddy would share a kind of Jewish candy he'd be sent in a can. It was very sweet as I recall and I think we ate it with a spoon. Any ideas ?

Sorry, no idea.
I am not Jewish myself yet I like to use some Hebrew expressions.
I frequently use 'Shalom' and I live in Germany and teach immigrants (many with muslim origins).
I wear my hair longer than my shoulder and I am a man. Makes a lot of people think that I am a liberal. It is when I voice my opinion that I literally see their heads explode.
So much fun to be had from those little things.
;-)

516 Hengineer  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:02:55pm

re: #509 Iron Fist

This is most unfortunate. This is obviously a premeditated murder. I wonder if Kansas has the death penalty. I suspect that dude is getting ready to find out. If they do have the death penalty it would only be justioce.

That said, you are right. Christians everywhere (at least in the US) are going to be blamed along with talk radio and Fox nws. Not because they deserve to be tainted, but because that serves a political purpose. This will be a club used to beat them anytime they voice the least little opposition to even the most extreme abortions (which it sounds like this doctor was performing).


And yet every time a man beheads his wife because of his "interpretation" of Islam, we are all admonished not to blame Islam.

517 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:02:57pm

re: #508 sattv4u2


Youre starting to be a pain in my ass.

518 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:03:03pm

re: #486 Charles

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

I think it would be good. The usual suspects would accuse you of cherry-picking but the links would demonstrate to any fair-minded person that there is, in fact, a tsunami of vile hate-speech washing over the blogosphere. It needs to be documented since subsequent events could lead to some ass-covering and belated cleanup by the site administrators.

519 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:03:41pm

re: #511 justdanny

Im an atheist
Im an atheist
Im an atheist

Thats five times.

re: #517 justdanny

Youre starting to be a pain in my ass.

Only 'starting too"? I'll have to try harder!

520 pingjockey  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:03:56pm

BBL

521 Hengineer  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:04:09pm

re: #510 avanti

Well, after a few months at sea..... :)

It ain't queer, away from the pier

It ain't gay, underway


//////

522 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:05:00pm

re: #510 avanti

Well, after a few months at sea..... :)

Any port in a storm !

523 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:05:03pm

re: #519 sattv4u2

Crank it up junior. I got skills.

524 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:05:10pm

re: #486 Charles

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

I'm guessing it would lead to one of your "I've got mail!" threads.

525 Steffan  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:05:10pm

re: #486 Charles

I'm debating with myself about whether to post an article exposing the vile comments celebrating the murder of Dr. Tiller. They're literally everywhere, all over the right-wing blogosphere and news sites. I expected to see a few of these, but I'm actually stunned at the number of people involved.

This is very bad craziness.

I think you should.

Advocating murder is inexcusable and intolerable. Those idiots need to take a step back and look at what they're excusing, tolerating, and advocating.

I don't particularly care about the central issue; murder is the absolute last contingency that anyone should consider.

526 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:06:39pm

re: #523 justdanny

Crank it up junior. I got skills.


And a fine grasp of "urban" speak !

527 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:06:58pm

re: #524 KansasMom

I'm guessing it would lead to one of your "I've got mail!" threads.

oooo ,,, I LOVE those !

528 Hengineer  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:07:04pm

re: #525 Steffan

I think you should.

Advocating murder is inexcusable and intolerable. Those idiots need to take a step back and look at what they're excusing, tolerating, and advocating.

I don't particularly care about the central issue; murder is the absolute last contingency that anyone should consider.

Especially people who claim to be "pro-life"

529 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:07:20pm

re: #501 justdanny

All I aspire to is to respect others as I would rightfully expect them to respect me.

And being an atheist (which I dont like saying because there doesnt need to be a word that describes disbelief in something) I ultimately believe in two things. Love and hope.

Try 'Bright'. It is another way of saying you are an atheist.
Hello brother btw.

530 Salamantis  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:07:46pm

Here's a couple of war stories for you.

There was this antiabortion fundie preacher who used to sneak into the clinic parking lot through a gap in the fence, and write down the license plate numbers so that the clients could be harrassed at home and at work and their kids could be harrassed at school. He also would leave repulsive antiabortion tracts under the windshield wipers.

One morning before dawn, I went out to the field acroos the road from my hopuse and filled four large grocery bags with fresh cowpies, then drove to the clinic with them. I dug a foot-deep trench throughout the fence gap, filled it with the manure, then sprinkled it over with sand and leaves. When he showed up and hit the gap, he sunk down to mid-calf level, and quickly withdrew.

A funny thing happened, though. The cows had been eating briars and brambles, and the seeds sprouted and grew an impenetrable thicket closing the gap. We Pagans would say that the Goddess sometimes moves in mysterious ways.

Another time, there was a pregnant teen who had been referred by a famous late televangelist to the unwed mother's home run by a local antiabortionist who vigorously protested at the clinics since they cost him the welfare payments he received for warehousing the girls. The proprieter, a self-styled preacher who had previously achieved the nearly impossible (being ejected from the local KKK for moral turpitude), had left some cooked beans out on the stove overnight, where they had spoiled. He fed some of them to this pregnant girl and some to his dog, and they both became violently ill from food poisoning. He told her to scrub the stairs, that Jesus would heal, and took his dog to the vet. Her family removed her.

He is now in prison serving a long term for molesting some of the pregnant teens in his care.

531 wiffersnapper  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:08:20pm

re: #526 sattv4u2

urbandictionary.com

:)?

532 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:08:42pm

re: #510 avanti

Well, after a few months at sea..... :)

GET AWAY FROM ME !

/ :D

533 Dar ul Harb  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:09:16pm

re: #529 callahan23

Try 'Bright'. It is another way of saying you are an atheist.
Hello brother btw.

That's actually another way of saying you're pretentious. :)

534 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:09:44pm

sattv4u2
Youre way too easy man. Five seconds and your open like low rent hooker.

535 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:10:04pm

I've gotta take a break.
Tomorrow will be an interesting day at work. Everyone knows I'm an adoptive mother, so there are a lot of incorrect assumptions about my religion and views on abortion. Views I prefer to keep closeted at work.
Maybe I'll call in sick.

536 Liberal Classic  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:10:33pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

People like Randall Terry frighten me. They don't care about the laws of this nation. They don't need any validation for their actions except their own sense of righteousness.

It wasn't long after 911 when the term "Christian Taliban" started to appear in the popular media. At the time, there was a lot of outrage from some people at the use of the term. The term is apt, though, and it applies all too well to tragic events such as Tiller's murder. Before anyone accuses me of calling out Christians, let me say this, though. We must preciously guard liberty. We must "never forget." We must never fall into the complacency that comes from believing "it can't happen here."

537 reine.de.tout  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:12:54pm

re: #291 KansasMom

At the parking lot where I work there is a junky old car. Shoe-polished on the rear window is "Abortion makes you a murderer". Cluttering up the inside are piles of pro-life leaflets and fast-food junk.
Nobody is ever parked next to it. The car itself has cooties.

I am honestly surprised to see a different car in the video.

Late in my response to this, but I've been trying to figure out what point this was supposed to be making.

I am pro-life.
I attend pro-life events.
I have a "Choose Life" license plate on my car (which is not a junk heap)
When the occasion arises, I refer people to Catholic Charities.
I eat fast food.
What does this make me?
And more importantly, what does any of this have to do with the price of tea in china?

538 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:13:41pm

re: #530 Salamantis

had previously achieved the nearly impossible (being ejected from the local KKK for moral turpitude

tried to cavort with the Grand Weasels sheep, did he?

539 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:13:57pm

re: #529 callahan23

Try 'Bright'. It is another way of saying you are an atheist.
Hello brother btw.

I examined that awhile back. And although I self identify as an atheist, it bothers me that I have to. There shouldnt be a need to say what I am when the truth is that I am not something. Atheist means I reject all notions of a creator.

I just dont want to identify with any group or organization that represents disbelief in something. Atheism, atheist, unbeliever, I dont like any of those words. Im just danny.

540 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:14:08pm

re: #534 justdanny

sattv4u2
Youre way too easy man. Five seconds and your open like low rent hooker.

(yawn) ,,,, huh ?

541 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:15:25pm

re: #529 callahan23

And hello back my brother. Peace to you and I hope your sunday is warm with comfort and hope.

542 ShanghaiEd  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:15:30pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

Really? The New Testament has a suggestion to "find a (insert) behind a rock and kill him"?

I believe they get all the killing and smiting advice from the Old Testament.

543 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:16:27pm

re: #458 HAL2010

Kline is ex attny general for joining in the witch hunt to get Tiller. Kobach who appeared on O'Reilly bashing Tiller also failed in his last election bid.


Politicians take note: Even in staunchly red Kansas promoting these extremists will get you de-selected for office.

544 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:16:51pm

re: #540 sattv4u2

(yawn) ,,,, huh ?

Dont fuck with me. You dont know me. Point your little plastic sword at someone else.

545 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:17:26pm

re: #537 reine.de.tout

Late in my response to this, but I've been trying to figure out what point this was supposed to be making.

I am pro-life.
I attend pro-life events.
I have a "Choose Life" license plate on my car (which is not a junk heap)
When the occasion arises, I refer people to Catholic Charities.
I eat fast food.
What does this make me?
And more importantly, what does any of this have to do with the price of tea in china?

Reine,
Trust me, the car I referred to does not belong to a rational person. Its not a bumper sticker, its shoe polish over every window. Writing that uses the word "murderer" several times.
I posted because it was the first thing I thought of when I heard Tiller was killed. I honestly suspected I would see that car in the video of the arrest.
I'm sure you are much more rational and compassionate than the crazy car guy.

546 callahan23  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:18:38pm

re: #539 justdanny

I examined that awhile back. And although I self identify as an atheist, it bothers me that I have to. There shouldnt be a need to say what I am when the truth is that I am not something. Atheist means I reject all notions of a creator.

I just dont want to identify with any group or organization that represents disbelief in something. Atheism, atheist, unbeliever, I dont like any of those words. Im just danny.

Same with me, except that 'I am just Harry'.
;-)

547 David IV of Georgia  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:19:32pm

re: #262 Kosh's Shadow

A true "Operation Rescue" would be giving support, both emotional and financial, to mothers thinking of aborting. And they would give support after the child is born, handling adoption should the mother chose to give the baby for adoption.
This "Operation Rescue" is certainly not that.

The only organization I have heard of that does support the women is in Israel.

I know of one in Texas: [Link: www.livalt.org...]

548 KansasMom  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:19:33pm

re: #537 reine.de.tout

And I have respect for the work Catholic Charities does. Its organizations like Operation Rescue I have issue with.

OK, I'm really logging off now. Stuff other than the computer to attend to.

549 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:19:36pm

re: #544 justdanny

Dont fuck with me. You dont know me. Point your little plastic sword at someone else.

As Sergeant Hulka said in the movie Stripes


Lighten up, Francis

550 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:21:28pm

re: #549 sattv4u2

Fuck you. Get outta my ass.

551 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:22:39pm

Fair enough. What would you like up there instead?

552 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:28:42pm

re: #478 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You're doing okay.

Where are you -- or what original nationality?

Thanks, I'm Icelandic - still clinging on to that wet little arctic rock, hoping I'll be able to emigrate to America one day.

553 Ojoe  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:29:37pm

re: #509 Iron Fist

It is good that one's faith is an interior thing & not visible automatically to everyone else. I have to be quiet with words, and show by actions. It is enough to act correctly. Sometimes where I live one gets a cannon blast of vehement angry words if anything christian is spoken of positively.

But the faith can get through centuries of this.

554 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:30:14pm

re: #552 Fluffster

Thanks, I'm Icelandic - still clinging on to that wet little arctic rock, hoping I'll be able to emigrate to America one day.

The way things are going here, you may see many of us packing our parkas and heading THERE!

555 justdanny  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:31:13pm

sattv4u2

Your obsession with me is almost interesting.

556 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:32:52pm

re: #555 justdanny

sattv4u2

Your obsession with me is almost interesting.

Don't be flattered.

I'm at work
I'm doing about 5 other things
This is easy!

YOU do the math!

557 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:33:45pm

re: #554 sattv4u2

The way things are going here, you may see many of us packing our parkas and heading THERE!

A new frontier is sorely needed. Too bad Mars is so far away...

558 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:37:13pm

re: #557 Fluffster

A new frontier is sorely needed. Too bad Mars is so far away...

I've been investigating various places to "retire" too. I know things may change in the next 6 or so years (I'm opting for early retirement) but Australia and Greenland have been on my shortlist. How does the political and economic climates between Icleand and Greenland compare? (no pun intended)

559 ladycatnip  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:38:04pm

#530 Salamantis

I'd upding you but I signed out earlier and now I can't. Thankfully my entire Christian life has been associated with sane, moral, level-headed and kind pastors and congregants. It's easy to understand if someone hasn't ever associated with the good folks how hard it would be to ever want to be a Christian with the examples that you've encountered.

It grieves me and makes me angry at the same time.

560 TedStriker  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:39:36pm

re: #555 justdanny

sattv4u2

Your obsession with me is almost interesting.

It seems to me that the only person between you two I see obsessing in this exchange is you, justdanny...take that for what it's worth.

561 right_wing2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:40:14pm

Nobody, regardless of what you think of their occupation, deserves to be murdered in cold blood like Dr. Tiller was.

562 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:41:43pm

re: #558 sattv4u2

I've been investigating various places to "retire" too. I know things may change in the next 6 or so years (I'm opting for early retirement) but Australia and Greenland have been on my shortlist. How does the political and economic climates between Icleand and Greenland compare? (no pun intended)

Psychologically, politically and economically (and geographically!) Iceland is right between Europe and the US, perhaps similar to some of your blue states. The current political and economic climate is not very good, we were an early casualty of the economic downturn (first leftist government in 18 years was voted in this spring), but we'll get over it in under 6 years!

563 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:41:53pm

re: #560 talon_262

It seems to me that the only person between you two I see obsessing in this exchange is you, justdanny...take that for what it's worth.

sshhhhhh ,,, you'll ruin all my workday fun !

564 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:46:08pm

re: #562 Fluffster

Psychologically, politically and economically (and geographically!) Iceland is right between Europe and the US, perhaps similar to some of your blue states. The current political and economic climate is not very good, we were an early casualty of the economic downturn (first leftist government in 18 years was voted in this spring), but we'll get over it in under 6 years!

Thanks. Like I said, Greenland and Australia along with Ireland intrigue me. I don't mind the cold and the absolute beauty of Greenland (and Iceland from what i've seen videos of, although I've never been there) so that compensates for the 10 months of winter. Ireland, I've been too and although I liked a LOT about it it seems to be dreary weather wise a LOT

565 Dominic Yeso  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:48:37pm

I wonder ...

Does judicial activism and its cronies set these things in motion? Does the imposition of authority without clear constitutional backing create conditions for rebellion and vigilantism? Its one thing for localities to establish their norms and laws within the framework of the Federal and state constitutions however when the federal judiciary creates law by fiat then something is bound to give. In no way do I condone the murder of Dr Tillman, nor am I seeking to be an apologist for the murderer (he can fry as far as I'm concerned), but the lesson may be in the mayhem that results when political busy-bodies freely operate in an atmosphere of subjective PC-enabled rule. Just wondering ...

566 Fluffster  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:50:24pm

re: #558 sattv4u2

Oh, and to actually answer your question, Greenland is still technically under the Danish throne although the Danish parliament recently voted to give them more self-rule. The eastern coast of Greenland is a pretty miserable place I think, with sky-high alcoholism, suicide and abuse levels. The western coast is in better shape, but rather fragile economically. Iceland is a much more modern country, for good and bad.

567 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:53:20pm

re: #565 Dominic Yeso

You're all over the map on that one, IMHO.

Bottom line is that people have to take personal responsibility. One does NOT have to have read the 10 commandments to know that "thou shalt not kill". Sitting in front of a video game shooting people/soldiers/cops is NO excuse for going out and shooting people/ soldiers/ cops.
THE TEST
If you're walking down a street alone and find a wallet with I.D. in it and say $500 what do you do?

568 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:54:58pm

re: #566 Fluffster

with sky-high alcoholism

You say tyhat like it's a BAD thing !

(remember,,, I'll be RETIRED !)

////

Thanks. I'll re-look at Iceland

569 VioletTiger  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:55:28pm

It just boggles my mind...how can you be opposed to killing and murder, and then murder somebody? And how can anyone applaud that murder? There are too many sick people out there. It's just sad.

570 sattv4u2  Sun, May 31, 2009 3:57:23pm

re: #569 VioletTiger

It just boggles my mind...how can you be opposed to killing and murder, and then murder somebody? And how can anyone applaud that murder? There are too many sick people out there. It's just sad.

Lets Give Them A Country!

oh ,, wait ,, thats a different issue !

(hey ,, but not a bad idea for all the "sick people" out there !)

571 capitalist piglet  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:00:20pm

re: #332 Salamantis

Sal, I am so sorry (not to mention angry) that happened. What incredible ugliness. It is an embarrassment that people who would do such things claim to have anything at all in common with me.

I am so very sorry.

572 VioletTiger  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:00:56pm

re: #496 avanti

That's it ! I kept thinking it was hala- something. WTF is in the stuff.

I think it is ground sesame seed. Love the stuff.

573 Roger  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:01:39pm

To exemplify the life of Christ a person must not commit murder. Assuming this murderer will claim Christ he should read these words of Christ over and over again:

Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. -- Jesus Christ

and shutter with guilt, knowing he is guilty before G-d and humanity.

574 VioletTiger  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:03:57pm

re: #332 Salamantis

Just awful Salamantis-so sorry to hear it. Can't understand how people who are suppoed to be motivated by God's love become so consumed with hate.

575 Dominic Yeso  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:19:42pm

re: #567 sattv4u2

Sure - murder is out of bounds and this is a clear case of murder - no argument there. My point is this -> a law, without constitutional foundation is forced on you. You can accept it and go on or you can fight it. A problem arises when there is a perception that there is no civil/legal recourse to fight a tyrannical edict. There are times when standing up and fighting will be accepted by certain people and the winners will be remembered as those on the right side, maybe even heros - our history has several such precedents. Again, this is a broader philosophical question not a defense or justification for murder as in this particular case.

576 Salamantis  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:21:02pm

One time, some big name national antiabortion leaders were visiting town, so the locals decided to put on a show for them. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement was alerted, and sent a squad in to the clinic, taping the crowd (about 2000) so that if some of them committed crimes, they could be identified. I was also inside.

Fist they listened to emotionally inciting firebrand speeches. Then they marched around the clinic seven times, and each time, these guys blew trumpets. The reference was clearly to the Battle of Jericho, where the walls fell down after trumpet blasts, and then Joshua's army entered and slaughtered every person inside.

Worked up into a self-righteous lather, they began besieging the clinic door in waves. The clinic guard, a local cop wearing an antiabortion 'precious feet' pin on his lapel, called back and said that he didn't think he could hold them back, at which point this tiny black woman with the FDLC drew this big ass gun and told the cop that if he couldn't hold them back, to just let 'em on through, and she'd deal with them herself.

He suddenly found the strength to hold the door.

The mass protests stopped after we turned the protest tables on them. One bright Sunday morning, we drove from the local Catholic church supporting the actions, to the local Southern Baptist church that was bussing in church member protestors, and then to the local Assembly of God church that was also bussing in protesters from their pews. In each place, dozens of women who had been painted ghostly white with stage paint and were clothed in white shroudlike dresses silently protested outside the churches when they let out of services, each of them holding a tombstone shaped sign on which were displayed the graphic particulars of women who has died from illegal abortions.

The church members were horrified; they never imagined when they began dishing it out that they might have to take it. Our counter-protests made the local paper and TV station, the ministers of those congregations took heavy public flak, and the weekly church congregation antiabortion protester bussings ended.

577 ShanghaiEd  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:21:55pm

re: #373 Charles

Good lord. Hundreds more comments celebrating and gloating over the murder.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

I think it shows that, as you and others at LGF have been saying for a while, there aren't "a few" kooks out there. There are thousands, perhaps millions, of them. And they have a large "support system" of slightly less extreme enablers.

I read a fascinating book about the Eric Rudolph case, that detailed how he was given sanctuary and help by "normal" people who shared his cause.

578 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:22:57pm

re: #332 Salamantis

They decided to go after me after I began volunteering as a NOW clinic escort in my home town of Pensacola, a town in which abortion clinics have been firebombed nearly a dozen times, and in which two doctors and one clinic escort have been murdered by two different people - Michael Griffin and the Methodist preacher Paul Hill. I just happened to drive by one day and saw women being beaten with wooden protest placards as they tried to enter or leave the clinics, so I began helping them in and out, shielding them with my body, and taking the blows intended for them on my own head and shoulders. The vicious and abusive protesters were bussed to the clinic on a weekly basis from a Southern Baptist and an Assembly of God church.

First, they illegally accessed my college transcripts, to help them build a profile to help them phone harrass me more effectively. I received sometimes hundreds of calls a day, for weeks on end, from many different phone booths by many different people, condemning and threatening me. When that didn't work, they began surveilling my home, trailing me wherever I went, and then they sabotaged my car. Finally, they strangled my family cat to death and hung it from a tree in my backyard by a noose around its neck, and safety pinned a note to its belly reading YOU'RE NEXT, BABY KILLER! But I never stopped helping those women.

Fucking bastards.

OMG Sal. To paraphrase Hitchens, it's a pity there isn't a hell for this sort of diseased scum to go to.

Well done to you for refusing to be intimidated.

579 SpaceJesus  Sun, May 31, 2009 4:30:00pm

I wonder why FOX hasn't opened comments on this story yet

580 el polacko  Sun, May 31, 2009 5:03:35pm

K-lo over at the national review is wringing her hands like lady macbeth over the shooting while simultaneously calling the doctor 'evil' ... this is exactly the sort of thing that drives me nuts. how is it that these folks can so easily absolve themselves of blame when they regularly reduce people with whom they disagree on an issue to expendable caricatures ?

581 feedupdem  Sun, May 31, 2009 5:13:19pm

Thrilling video. That's two (or so) minutes I'll never get back.

582 zeebeach  Sun, May 31, 2009 5:39:23pm

re: #576 Salamantis

One time, some big name national antiabortion leaders were visiting town, so the locals decided to put on a show for them. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement was alerted, and sent a squad in to the clinic, taping the crowd (about 2000) so that if some of them committed crimes, they could be identified. I was also inside.

Fist they listened to emotionally inciting firebrand speeches. Then they marched around the clinic seven times, and each time, these guys blew trumpets. The reference was clearly to the Battle of Jericho, where the walls fell down after trumpet blasts, and then Joshua's army entered and slaughtered every person inside.

Worked up into a self-righteous lather, they began besieging the clinic door in waves. The clinic guard, a local cop wearing an antiabortion 'precious feet' pin on his lapel, called back and said that he didn't think he could hold them back, at which point this tiny black woman with the FDLC drew this big ass gun and told the cop that if he couldn't hold them back, to just let 'em on through, and she'd deal with them herself.

He suddenly found the strength to hold the door.

The mass protests stopped after we turned the protest tables on them. One bright Sunday morning, we drove from the local Catholic church supporting the actions, to the local Southern Baptist church that was bussing in church member protestors, and then to the local Assembly of God church that was also bussing in protesters from their pews. In each place, dozens of women who had been painted ghostly white with stage paint and were clothed in white shroudlike dresses silently protested outside the churches when they let out of services, each of them holding a tombstone shaped sign on which were displayed the graphic particulars of women who has died from illegal abortions.

The church members were horrified; they never imagined when they began dishing it out that they might have to take it. Our counter-protests made the local paper and TV station, the ministers of those congregations took heavy public flak, and the weekly church congregation antiabortion protester bussings ended.

When was this, Salamantis? What year, I mean.

583 The Monster  Sun, May 31, 2009 7:12:05pm

re: #56 Thanos

From the pic it's looking like state trooper... I think this guy gave me a ticket not too long ago:

[Link: blogs.pitch.com...]

Actually, Johnson County Sheriff's Dept. The WPD probably got on the horn to KS Highway Patrol, who spread the news to all the LEAs in the state, then as soon as they had a confirmed sighting on I-35, JCSD would have been all over it, and it would have been a crapshoot whether they or a KHP trooper got him first.

I've driven past where they nabbed him like a kajillion times. It's kinda creepy when I see something in the news in a place I know so well.

584 Randall Gross  Sun, May 31, 2009 9:32:27pm

re: #583 The Monster

Yeah, I saw a second photo and corrected it downthread.

585 Salamantis  Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:05:15am

re: #582 zeebeach

When was this, Salamantis? What year, I mean.

It was in the late '80's.

586 elclynn  Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:21:58am

What the Doc has been doing in regard to late term abortion is horribly disgusting. What the murderer did is just as disgusting. A no win situation for everyone.

587 Salamantis  Mon, Jun 1, 2009 7:37:10am

re: #586 elclynn

What the Doc has been doing in regard to late term abortion is horribly disgusting. What the murderer did is just as disgusting. A no win situation for everyone.

See these two comments of mine on another thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

588 Land Shark  Mon, Jun 1, 2009 8:26:20am

The people who believe murdering an abortion doctor will intimidate other doctors into not performing them are terrorists, pure and simple. Their intent is no different than that of terrorists, to impose their will and affect other people's behaviour through violence and the threat of violence.


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