Honduran Troops Detain Journalists

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The Honduran military has been interrupting news broadcasts and clamping down on freedom of the press.

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (AP) — Honduran troops detained seven international journalists covering the aftermath of a military coup Monday, freeing them unhurt a short time later. The government also took at least two television stations off the air and interrupted the broadcasts of others.

At least 10 soldiers, most with rifles drawn, arrived at the hotel where journalists from The Associated Press and the Venezuela-based television network Telesur were staying and unplugged their editing equipment in an apparent attempt to stop their coverage of protests in support of deposed President Manuel Zelaya.

One of the Telesur journalists was speaking on a telephone at the time of the detention, and AP’s Nicolas Garcia saw a soldier lightly slapping her hand so she would hang up.

Garcia, an Argentine videojournalist, and Esteban Felix, a Peruvian photographer, and two Nicaraguan assistants were loaded into a military Land Cruiser, with another military vehicle following close behind. Also detained were Telesur journalists Adriana Sivori, producer Maria Jose Diaz and cameraman Larry Sanchez.

“They’re taking us prisoner at gunpoint,” Sivori told Telesur by telephone as she was being detained. Telesur is financed by Venezuela’s government and its allies.

Garcia said the four AP journalists were taken to an immigration office where two officials demanded to see their Honduran visas. They were released after explaining they were journalists. Telesur confirmed that its journalists were also released.

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493 comments
1 JamesTKirk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:36:08am

The AP are the enemy.

2 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:38:00am

You would think Chavez would agree with Honduras over this... detaining jounalists and all that...

//

3 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:38:02am

Hard to know who to cheer for (if anyone) in this mess. It's clearly more complex than a simple "military coup", as the press keeps saying (and I retract my statement from yesterday re: the same). But this development does not bode well.

An aside:

At least 10 soldiers, most with rifles drawn

As opposed to... in their rifle holsters?

4 JustABill  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:38:29am

The real question is, does Obama respect the US Constitution more than he does the Honduras Constitution...

5 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:38:30am

Is it a coup if the congress used the military to enforce the constitution?

6 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:03am
At least 10 soldiers, most with rifles drawn

Pen and ink?

Charcoal sketches?

Maybe the old reliable Crayola?

I'd like to see those rifle holsters those guys were wearing. Sounds like an idea whose time has not yet arrived.

7 pat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:09am

No surprise here. It is what they do. The people are the enemy of government.

8 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:17am
When Zelaya was first arrested Sunday morning, power was cut throughout the capital and all radio and television stations went off the air or simply played traditional "marimba" music.


THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED, BUT IT WILL BE DANCEABLE

9 jones  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:26am

I have a list of american journalists they can round up if they have time.


semi-/

10 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:36am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

Hard to know who to cheer for (if anyone) in this mess. It's clearly more complex than a simple "military coup", as the press keeps saying (and I retract my statement from yesterday re: the same). But this development does not bode well.

An aside:


As opposed to... in their rifle holsters?

Oooh. They were pointing that little hole that makes the cartridge thingies come out.

11 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:40am

Just read an article on this as well. Still calling it a military coup, even though half way down they talk about how the military acted on the supreme court's orders. I can't understand how they talk about the rule of law done by the government and then turn around and call it a military coup.

12 ointmentfly  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:39:51am

Maybe if they simply reported the news instead of creating it, they wouldn't have so many guns pointed at them...

13 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:40:23am

re: #6 razorbacker

I see you have a copy of the Associated Press Field Guide to Firearms

14 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:40:31am

The AP and Telesur? I'm okay with that. Kick them out.

15 jemima  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:40:46am

Message of praise to be released by Robert "Potomac Bob" Gibbs later this afternoon.

/

16 Kragar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:41:05am
AP’s Nicolas Garcia saw a soldier lightly slapping her hand so she would hang up.

ITS LIKE NAZI GERMANY ALL OVER AGAIN!

/

17 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:41:07am

re: #14 Ward Cleaver

The AP and Telesur? I'm okay with that. Kick them out.

How about we just kick them? Obviously they don't know how to report a news story at all.

18 Zimriel  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:41:13am

At least the AP can claim to be journalists. Sorta. Constant propagandising for Hamas aside.

The other set of "journalists" are better described as Venezuelan agents sent there from Telesur, Hugo Chavez's very own network.

19 wahabicorridor  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:41:21am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

Correct me if I'm wrong but.........

Didn't the court order this overthrow because Zeyala (or whatever his name is) was trying to undermine their constitution somehow?

20 Clemente  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:41:34am
Telesur is financed by Venezuela’s government and its allies.

This, to me, is nearly as destructive to their journalistic credentials as an AP paycheck.

21 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:41:55am

Supreme Court Coup?

That would be a first.

However...cutting off the press is never good.

22 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:42:06am

re: #5 MandyManners

Is it a coup if the congress used the military to enforce the constitution?

I very interesting concept here. Is it lawful what they did according to thier constitution...

23 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:42:09am

re: #6 razorbacker

Pen and ink?

Charcoal sketches?

Maybe the old reliable Crayola?

I'd like to see those rifle holsters those guys were wearing. Sounds like an idea whose time has not yet arrived.

Maybe they're fans of en.wikipedia.org...]>Lucas McCain

24 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:42:28am

re: #13 Occasional Reader

I see you have a copy of the Associated Press Field Guide to Firearms

Nah. Dese guys wasn't following the meme.

Not 'high-powered' rifles.

Not 'assault' rifles.

Just 'drawn' rifles.

Amatuers. And pretty rank, at that.

25 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:43:19am

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Maybe they're fans of Lucas McCain

I almost forgot:

"Get behind me, Mark!"

26 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:43:32am

So, on the one hand:

-Zelaya himself had engaged in behavior that had been deemed unconstitutional (referendum, firing army chief), and had ignore the supreme court.

-Supreme court says they gave the order to the army to arrest him.

-Congress has sworn in a new president

On the other hand:

-From my quick perusal of the Honduran constitution, the supreme court has no authority to give orders to the army.

-The congress could have impeached him... instead, first they (or the army and/or the court) arrested and expelled him, then sorta kinda impeached him, in a way.

A mess all around.

27 jones  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:43:39am

re: #21 EmmmieG

Supreme Court Coup?

That would be a first.

However...cutting off the press is never good.

Never is a long time. What if W. came out behind the podium and punched a deserving moonbat in the jaw, mid-hostile question.

28 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:43:41am

re: #24 razorbacker

Amatuers. And pretty rank, at that.

They have a deoderant out for that I think.

29 BLBfootballs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:43:45am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

As opposed to... in their rifle holsters?

I guess they could have been pointing them at people.

All your editing hardware are belong to us.

30 eff  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:43:53am

re: #19 wahabicorridor

It's not very clear who the good guy is in this. Or the "gooder" of the two, anyway.

Chavez is against the coup, which leads me to believe it may be a good thing.

31 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:44:05am

re: #8 Occasional Reader

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED, BUT IT WILL BE DANCEABLE


Youtube Video
32 Kragar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:44:29am

Given most media outlets outright partisanism and willingness to pursue political agendas in the name of journalism, I find their cries of "freedom of the press" less than moving.

33 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:44:42am

re: #6 razorbacker

Pen and ink?

Charcoal sketches?

Maybe the old reliable Crayola?

I'd like to see those rifle holsters those guys were wearing. Sounds like an idea whose time has not yet arrived.

Rifle Holster

34 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:45:01am

It's been alleged that the Venezuelans have been pushing the referendum and the Honduran president was operating at the behest of [T]hugo. Cracking down the media isn't a good idea, even if the media was operating at the behest of [T]hugo. It's all about appearances, and this doesn't look good.

35 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:45:21am

I read this story years ago. Wasn't it called "The Ransom of Red AP Chief"?

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:45:23am

re: #27 jones

Never is a long time. What if W. came out behind the podium and punched a deserving moonbat in the jaw, mid-hostile question.

Sure. As long as the guy could publish a story about it afterward--if he could find a willing publisher, which I am certain he could.

You have the right to speak. You don't have the right to make other people listen to you.

37 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:45:27am

re: #24 razorbacker

One quibble:

Not 'assault' rifles.


"Assault rifle" is a perfectly legitimate firearms term. It's "assault weapon" that's b.s.

38 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:45:39am

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

Maybe they're fans of Lucas McCain

You have to admit, that was one of the most attention grabbing intro scenes on television.

And that great old big circular cocking lever? Comeon, what redblooded American boy didn't want one of those?

Well, okay. Perez Hilton. But if he'd had higher heels on those boots?

Fabbbbbulos!

39 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:45:47am

re: #22 MikeAlv77

I very interesting concept here. Is it lawful what they did according to thier constitution...

From what I've read, I'm not sure.

40 JamesTKirk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:46:01am

re: #33 Creeping Eruption

Rifle Holster

You know he has one.

41 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:46:30am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

So, on the one hand:

-Zelaya himself had engaged in behavior that had been deemed unconstitutional (referendum, firing army chief), and had ignore the supreme court.

-Supreme court says they gave the order to the army to arrest him.

-Congress has sworn in a new president

On the other hand:

-From my quick perusal of the Honduran constitution, the supreme court has no authority to give orders to the army.

-The congress could have impeached him... instead, first they (or the army and/or the court) arrested and expelled him, then sorta kinda impeached him, in a way.

A mess all around.

Sounds like a Charley Foxtrot to me.

42 clgood  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:46:45am

What the hell does it mean to "draw" a rifle? I smell "journalism".

This sounds like a very benign sort of crackdown. Poor widdle jownawists inconvinienced for a couple of howahs?

Let's see: "Please hang up the phone and prove to us you're here legally."

"We're journalists, see?"

"Oh, OK. Bye."

I don't see a lot of "there" there.

43 JustABill  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:47:12am

re: #19 wahabicorridor

Correct me if I'm wrong but.........

Didn't the court order this overthrow because Zeyala (or whatever his name is) was trying to undermine their constitution somehow?

As near as I an tell, the facts go something like this...

The President called for a referendum on extending his term limit. According to their constitution only their congress can initiate such a referendum. Their Courts ruled against the President. The President tried to order the referendum anyways, the military refused. He then tried to have his supporters distribute the ballots themselves at which point the military sent the President packing...

44 Miss Molly  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:47:36am

Hugo Chavez is angry as can be and wringing his hands over what to do now that the Supreme Court has followed the rule of law in Honduras. Heaves knows his Supreme Court would never do something like that.

45 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:47:50am

re: #11 BlueCanuck

Just read an article on this as well. Still calling it a military coup, even though half way down they talk about how the military acted on the supreme court's orders. I can't understand how they talk about the rule of law done by the government and then turn around and call it a military coup.

As discussed last night, it sounds like a coup to me, with a good result perhaps, but a coup.

768.

46 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:48:00am

re: #33 Creeping Eruption

Holster is 65"?

Wow.

Razorbacker is a big ol' boy, himself, but I bow to a superior waistline when I see it.

47 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:48:14am

re: #6 razorbacker

Pen and ink?

Charcoal sketches?

Maybe the old reliable Crayola?

I'd like to see those rifle holsters those guys were wearing. Sounds like an idea whose time has not yet arrived.

Etch-A-Sketch?

48 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:48:55am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

So, on the one hand:

-Zelaya himself had engaged in behavior that had been deemed unconstitutional (referendum, firing army chief), and had ignore the supreme court.

-Supreme court says they gave the order to the army to arrest him.

-Congress has sworn in a new president

On the other hand:

-From my quick perusal of the Honduran constitution, the supreme court has no authority to give orders to the army.

-The congress could have impeached him... instead, first they (or the army and/or the court) arrested and expelled him, then sorta kinda impeached him, in a way.

A mess all around.

Had the referendum gone ahead, it wouldn't have been binding in any event because it wasn't legitimate. The Court could have ruled as much, leaving the President open to impeachment in any event.

What it looks like is everyone jumped the gun and engaged in illegal actions, but that's up to the Hondurans to figure out.

If anything, it's like the NYS state senate on a good day. /

49 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:49:22am

re: #45 avanti

Okay, it may be a coup. But it's not a MILITARY COUP! The civilian government is still in control, and was never co-opted by the military.

50 Spartacus50  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:49:23am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

Hard to know who to cheer for (if anyone) in this mess. It's clearly more complex than a simple "military coup", as the press keeps saying (and I retract my statement from yesterday re: the same). But this development does not bode well.

An aside:

As opposed to... in their rifle holsters?

There is nothing complex about this. Telesur has been instrumental in fomenting revolution in Honduras under the guise of being "international journalists". They work under the direction of Hugo Chavez and are attempting the very same thing in every corner of Latin America. There is way too much naivety involved in this

51 Spider Mensch  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:49:27am

a guy who worker for me is originally from Honduras. Still has family and contacts down there. Most people are against zelaya starting a chavez likepresidente for life type rule. So in the average man on the street in Honduras, the Honduran court was in it's right to remove him from office. the problem was they should have kept him in Honduras, not fly him to Costa Rica, and now he's at the UN talking to them. It isn't a coup, but the court screwqed up in sending him out of the country.

52 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:49:38am

So Zelaya won't be asked to play cards?

53 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:49:47am

I guess the real question is did/does their supreme court guys have the legal authority to have the president arrested under their constitution?

54 JamesTKirk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:50:19am

re: #50 Spartacus50

They work under the direction of Hugo Chavez and are attempting the very same thing in every corner of Latin America. There is way too much naivety involved in this

Or deliberate collusion and obfuscation.

55 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:50:42am

re: #22 MikeAlv77

I very interesting concept here. Is it lawful what they did according to thier constitution...

From an (again) quick perusal of the Honduran Constitution, it isn't clear to me. I see no explicit mention of impeachment procedure, or How To Get Rid Of A Crummy President.

56 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:51:15am

re: #47 MandyManners

Draw!

Youtube Video
57 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:51:15am

re: #26 Occasional Reader

Kinda Tin-Potty.

58 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:51:29am

re: #49 BlueCanuck

Okay, it may be a coup. But it's not a MILITARY COUP! The civilian government is still in control, and was never co-opted by the military.

A little civilian, a little military . . .a little deuce coup?

59 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:51:47am

There's a lot of debate over whether the Honduran constitution allows this kind of action, but I think "military coup" is exactly the right word when the army breaks in with guns, hauls off the president and expels him from the country.

And when they start arresting journalists and censoring the news, it begins to look even more like a traditional military coup.

Zelaya may have been toadying up to Hugo Chavez, but it's not a good idea to make heros of the opposition.

60 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:52:52am

re: #50 Spartacus50

There is nothing complex about this. Telesur has been instrumental in fomenting revolution in Honduras under the guise of being "international journalists". They work under the direction of Hugo Chavez and are attempting the very same thing in every corner of Latin America. There is way too much naivety involved in this

I'm quite aware of who Telesur is, and what Chavez is up to, thanks. The question is, did the congress, supreme court and army act legitimately in what they did in reaction to this.

61 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:53:11am

re: #49 BlueCanuck

Okay, it may be a coup. But it's not a MILITARY COUP! The civilian government is still in control, and was never co-opted by the military.

I won't argue the semantics since I don't know the definitions well enough.

62 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:53:12am

re: #33 Creeping Eruption

Actually, full disclosure, I made something like that for myself. Never thought to call it a holster, though.

I just thought it was a regular sling, with a piece of velcro strip attached to a belt.

But I don't use it with a gun, no. 'Cause guns are bad, mmkay?

I use it to hold my hiking stick safely out of the way when I'm rescuing kittens and birdies and little spotted puppies.

63 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:53:36am

re: #57 debutaunt

It puts the banana in banana republic.

64 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:54:13am

I blame Obama!
/ODS

65 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:54:41am

re: #62 razorbacker

But I don't use it with a gun, no. 'Cause guns are bad, mmkay?

/So how do you get the kittens and birdies and little spotted puppies out of the trees?

66 ~Fianna  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #11 BlueCanuck

Just read an article on this as well. Still calling it a military coup, even though half way down they talk about how the military acted on the supreme court's orders. I can't understand how they talk about the rule of law done by the government and then turn around and call it a military coup.

Put it in US perspective - this is like Nancy Pelosi and Justice Kennedy deciding that they hated Bush so much they were going to have the Marines surround the White House at 2 in the morning and escort George and Laura to the airport in their pajamas and force them out of the country at gunpoint.

That's a coup.

The House holding hearings in to Clinton's or Nixon's conduct in office and Constitutionally removing them from office according to the rule of law is not a coup.

It looks from what I read like the Honduran government did the first scenario, not the second.

Also, if they're rounding up journalists they have something to hide.

67 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:54:46am

re: #59 Charles

but I think "military coup" is exactly the right word when the army breaks in with guns, hauls off the president and expels him from the country.

Except that the term is usually used to denote a situation when the army does that to TAKE OVER the country, leaving a general or two or five in charge. Here, they were (at least arguably) acting on the orders of civilian authorities, and civilian authorities are currently running things. It's not Chile 1973.

68 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:55:08am

Honduras coup holds few risks for Latin leftists

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a foe of U.S. trade and foreign policy in Latin America, has threatened military action in Honduras to restore Zelaya and rallied his leftist bloc since the weekend coup, casting the crisis as an attack on democracy by imperialist forces.
69 turn  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:55:12am

re: #64 Killgore Trout

I blame Obama!
/ODS

I blame those friggin tea parties!
/

70 Rancher  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:55:37am

Zelaya is Chávez-style thug who is trying to become President for life and who seems to have little popular support. That being said this seems like a dumb move by the military, unless they have no intention of allowing the elections to go forward this fall.

71 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:55:59am

re: #55 Occasional Reader

Stinky, my posts keep getting half-eated today. What's going on?

72 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:56:06am

re: #67 Occasional Reader

Except that the term is usually used to denote a situation when the army does that to TAKE OVER the country, leaving a general or two or five in charge. Here, they were (at least arguably) acting on the orders of civilian authorities, and civilian authorities are currently running things. It's not Chile 1973.

Oh great. I'll have to make new protest signs now.

73 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:57:01am

re: #56 lawhawk

Draw!



Dang. Here I was feeling special because I could draw stairs.

74 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:57:52am

re: #71 Occasional Reader

Stinky, my posts keep getting half-eated today. What's going on?

An unclosed HTML tag.

75 Buster  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:57:56am

re: #53 JohnnyReb

I guess the real question is did/does their supreme court guys have the legal authority to have the president arrested under their constitution?

From what I've read, they do. They were enforcing the constitution and under their constitution the Supreems can order the military to take action if the President is unwilling to abide by constitutional limits on his power.

As for the journalists; it looks as if the government is checking to see that they are who they claim to be, then releasing them. Perhaps they fear outside agitators...perhaps from Venezuela?

76 Zimriel  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:58:19am

I notice the AP bias here, including Telesur agents as "international journalists" and using "Action-McNews

77 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:58:38am

Is this now a military junta or has a politician been installed to take Pres. Zelayas place?

78 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:58:41am

re: #55 Occasional Reader

From an (again) quick perusal of the Honduran Constitution

... there is no explicit provision for impeachment, nor for anyone other than the President giving orders to the Army. [The part of my post that got eated, this is.] Of course, what happens if the President is acting illegally, ignores clear court orders, etc.... sounds to me like they jumped the gun, but again, this is not your father's "military coup", it's more complex than that.

79 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:59:02am

re: #67 Occasional Reader

Except that the term is usually used to denote a situation when the army does that to TAKE OVER the country, leaving a general or two or five in charge. Here, they were (at least arguably) acting on the orders of civilian authorities, and civilian authorities are currently running things. It's not Chile 1973.

I'm not so sure the civilian government is still running things, if the army's going around to TV stations and newspapers and shutting things down.

80 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:00:10am

re: #78 Occasional Reader

... there is no explicit provision for impeachment, nor for anyone other than the President giving orders to the Army. [The part of my post that got eated, this is.] Of course, what happens if the President is acting illegally, ignores clear court orders, etc.... sounds to me like they jumped the gun, but again, this is not your father's "military coup", it's more complex than that.

OR, how can I fit all that on a protest sign?

81 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:00:15am

re: #79 Charles

I'm not so sure the civilian government is still running things, if the army's going around to TV stations and newspapers and shutting things down.

Well, the question is, are they doing it on their own, or following civilan orders? Michelletti imposed a curfew, that much I know.

82 JamesTKirk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:00:18am

re: #79 Charles

I'm not so sure the civilian government is still running things, if the army's going around to TV stations and newspapers and shutting things down.

Under whose orders are they doing that?

83 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:00:55am

re: #65 Creeping Eruption

/So how do you get the kittens and birdies and little spotted puppies out of the trees?

Chainsaw.

Someday, I hope to have one live through the rescue.

But my intentions are good, and that's what really matters, right?

84 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:00:55am

re: #80 debutaunt

OR, how can I fit all that on a protest sign?

Protests signs with extensive footnotes almost never work.

85 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:00:58am

Hey Afternoon Lizards! It's overcast and cool in the
Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland. I miss the shores of Superior. At least when it's overcast and cool there, it is still wonderful.

Only here for a short time. I need a refuge from Michael Jackson and Billy Mays.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

86 ~Fianna  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:01:03am

re: #34 lawhawk

It's been alleged that the Venezuelans have been pushing the referendum and the Honduran president was operating at the behest of [T]hugo. Cracking down the media isn't a good idea, even if the media was operating at the behest of [T]hugo. It's all about appearances, and this doesn't look good.

Lawhawk - upding on the appearances thing.

It's my understanding that what the issue was was that the President of Honduras called for a non-binding referendum asking the people if they wanted to hold a constitutional convention. It seems like there's speculation that the President wanted to change the constitution to allow himself to serve in office for more time than currently allowed, but he was trying to do that legally (sorta, I guess like what Bloomberg is trying to do in New York.)

I don't see that as being particularly nefarious, I guess. It's a better way of going about that than ordering the military to detain the congress and declaring the constitution amended. I wonder how the people would have voted.

87 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:01:39am

re: #84 Occasional Reader

Protests signs with extensive footnotes almost never work.

You got one bad attitude, mister.

88 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:02:00am

re: #79 Charles

I'm not so sure the civilian government is still running things, if the army's going around to TV stations and newspapers and shutting things down.

We'll have to wait and see what develops out of this. I see way too many people jumping to the "it's not a coup" or "it's a military coup" conclusions way too quickly. So far, it's a clusterfuck for lack of a better term. And whatever it is, it's not a good thing.

89 clgood  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:02:27am

re: #66 ~Fianna

It's more like a majority of congress, plus a majority of the supreme court, finding that President Obama's illegal attempt to remain "president for life" is unconstitutional, and requesting the military to remove him from office so that constitutional government can continue.

It's the civilian Honduran government doing this, not the military. Not much of a coup.

90 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:02:48am

re: #88 Honorary Yooper

We'll have to wait and see what develops out of this. I see way too many people jumping to the "it's not a coup" or "it's a military coup" conclusions way too quickly. So far, it's a clusterfuck for lack of a better term. And whatever it is, it's not a good thing.

I'm standing up in favor of clusterfucks.

91 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:03:01am

re: #83 razorbacker

Chainsaw.

Someday, I hope to have one live through the rescue.

But my intentions are good, and that's what really matters, right?

Good intentions make the world go around dontcha know.

92 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:03:26am

re: #84 Occasional Reader

Protests signs with extensive footnotes almost never work.

Try a bound appendix?

93 JamesTKirk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:03:29am

re: #90 debutaunt

I'm standing up in favor of clusterfucks.

I do that every chance I get!

94 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:03:43am

So, one possible solution: The Honduran congress agrees to bow to pressure from the "international community", and reinstates Zelaya. Then, impeach him. Keep the plane on the tarmac with engine warm for the return trip to Costa Rica.

/just thinking out loud

95 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:04:08am

OT--I'm buying The Hiding Place for a class my son is taking next year, and trying to decide which edition to get. Some weirdos actually gave it one star on Amazon. Decided to check out why. One person was just rating their edition poorly because of typos, etc, the rest were eighth graders ticked off they had been forced to read it.

If my kids read a book like this, at about 13, and found it bo-ring. I think I would worry about them.

96 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:04:20am

re: #85 ggt

Hey Afternoon Lizards! It's overcast and cool in the
Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland. I miss the shores of Superior. At least when it's overcast and cool there, it is still wonderful.

Only here for a short time. I need a refuge from Michael Jackson and Billy Mays.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Michael Jackson and Billy Mays.

Where do you go for the frigid waters of Lake Superior?

97 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:04:21am

re: #89 clgood

I think the issue is not so much his removal but the events that followed. I think it's a lot more complex than we understand.

98 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:04:28am

re: #92 Creeping Eruption

Try a bound appendix?

Can't that be fatal?

99 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:04:33am

re: #92 Creeping Eruption

Try a bound appendix?

When you're reminding people to check the "pocket parts" on your protest sign, you know you just weren't cut out to be a protester.

Lunch!

100 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:05:11am

re: #96 Creeping Eruption

Michael Jackson and Billy Mays.

Where do you go for the frigid waters of Lake Superior?

Apostle Islands area --wherever we land.

101 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:05:18am

Not that it is a good thing, but since they are in bed with 0, why not kick them out. I hope they get things squared away quickly there. Mainly because I am tired of things like this.

A little OT, but when I was in Israel a few years ago, talking with my brother-in-law, who is a Russian immigrant to Israel, he said that the US has too much freedom of the press. Wrong thing to say to a guy who believes strongly in the US Constitution.

102 pat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:05:49am

The Constitutional Convention was for the specific purpose of allowing a third or permanent term. It is right out of the Chavez playbook. Vote fraud was likely assured, and the Convention would be controlled by appointments. Polls show the Convention was overwhelmingly opposed by the populace. But polls in Venezuela showed the same thing (60-40) prior to Chavez last "victory". The latter fell short for Chavez though. Sometimes you can only do so much voter fraud.

103 snowcrash  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:06:20am

re: #94 Occasional Reader

Arrest and trial maybe could have avoided this. I like your idea.

104 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:07:02am

Have the tweets started in Honduras yet?

105 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:07:18am

re: #95 EmmmieG

OT--I'm buying The Hiding Place for a class my son is taking next year, and trying to decide which edition to get. Some weirdos actually gave it one star on Amazon. Decided to check out why. One person was just rating their edition poorly because of typos, etc, the rest were eighth graders ticked off they had been forced to read it.

If my kids read a book like this, at about 13, and found it bo-ring. I think I would worry about them.

I don't even remember that book. I looked it up and sorta remember it, I might have seen the movie.

106 Stuart Leviton  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:07:27am

Is there a reliable political analyst - or some other resource - on Latin American affairs?

107 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:07:48am

You know your in trouble when your supporters have protest signs that read:

"C'mon I wan Zelaya"

108 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:07:58am

Barf, Bloomberg TV has just reported that the Mn court has ruled for Freaken Franken.

109 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:08:02am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

Hard to know who to cheer for (if anyone) in this mess.

Yes, we have no still have bananas.

110 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:08:06am

re: #106 Stuart Leviton

Is there a reliable political analyst - or some other resource - on Latin American affairs?

Latin American Bloggers?

111 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:08:06am

re: #100 ggt

Apostle Islands area --wherever we land.

Sail?

We had family friends that had land and a cabin on Lake Superior. It was on the bluff and had a little beach (grandfathered-in) and you could see both Madaline and Long Islands from the house.

I grew up on Lake Michigan, but fell in love with Lake Superior. There is nothing like it up there.

112 ~Fianna  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:08:46am

re: #89 clgood

re: #89 clgood

It's more like a majority of congress, plus a majority of the supreme court, finding that President Obama's illegal attempt to remain "president for life" is unconstitutional, and requesting the military to remove him from office so that constitutional government can continue.

It's the civilian Honduran government doing this, not the military. Not much of a coup.

Too secretive for that, from what I've read. Showing up at 2 in the morning is a raid. It doesn't look like the Constitution allows this kind of behavior.

That's the difference between my first scenario and the second. If he's breaking the law, impeach him right and proper. If he refuses to go under the orders of the civilians, then bring in the military. Disrupting the rule of law to prevent the disruption of the rule of law is sorta like fornicating for virginity, no?

113 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:09:33am

re: #108 Shr_Nfr

Barf, Bloomberg TV has just reported that the Mn court has ruled for Freaken Franken.

A liberal court siding with a liberal? Never seen that in Florida.
/////

114 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:09:33am

re: #111 Creeping Eruption

Sail?

We had family friends that had land and a cabin on Lake Superior. It was on the bluff and had a little beach (grandfathered-in) and you could see both Madaline and Long Islands from the house.

I grew up on Lake Michigan, but fell in love with Lake Superior. There is nothing like it up there.

NO, I sit on the deck and read. I grew-up in Michigan and now am in Chicagoland. I also love the Great Lakes. I could stay forever on the shores of Superior --even in the frigid winters.

They have an ice road over to Madeline, dog sled races and everything.

115 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:10:09am

re: #99 Occasional Reader

When you're reminding people to check the "pocket parts" on your protest sign, you know you just weren't cut out to be a protester.

Lunch!

But wait! There's more info on the back of my sign!

116 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:10:49am

re: #115 debutaunt

But wait! There's more info on the back of my sign!

"Doh! Who the hell didn't update these!"

117 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:10:54am

I think in some ways we are very "English". If we were going to oust our President by Military means. We'd announce it and it would be done in broad daylight according to protocal --pomp and circumstance and everything. Reporters would be emceeing it and everything.

118 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:11:19am

I was being to think there were no constants in the universe ...
... but Latin American "politics" have come through !

/ yeah, probably should add one

119 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:12:29am
120 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:12:40am

****BREAKING****
State Supreme Court rules for Franken, 5-0

121 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:13:13am

re: #120 jcm

****BREAKING BROKEN****
State Supreme Court rules for Franken, 5-0

122 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:13:24am

re: #120 jcm

****BREAKINGBARFING****
State Supreme Court rules for Franken, 5-0

FTFY

123 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:13:33am

re: #120 jcm

****BREAKING****
State Supreme Court rules for Franken, 5-0

Well fine, as long as there was no cheating.

124 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:13:54am

re: #121 Creeping Eruption

heh
GMTA

125 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:14:03am
126 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:14:31am

The journalists targeted by the Army were employees of Telesur, which seems to be a state run media organization controlled by Hugo Chavez:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The other two stations shut down were either controlled by Zelaya or sympathetic to him.

It seems to me that if the Supreme Court has determined that Zelaya must go, it would make little sense to allow 'journalists' from a potentially hostile neighbor shape your news, especially during such a volatile time, bad appearances or not.

127 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:14:48am

OT: Fox News and Rush just said Franken is decreed winner as Senator!
Hello Cap and Tax, ObamaCare, and God knows what else.

128 jayzee  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:15:14am

I still think that this may be a crisis, it is not a coup. In this country, and many other democracies, martial law has been implemented to maintain the peace. If that is what is occurring here then I have no problem with it. Lightly slapping a newswoman's hand or questioning and releasing reporters, really doesn't upset me all that much.

129 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:15:15am
130 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:15:21am

A straight case of Venezuela meddling in Honduras called out by the just authorities of Honduras.

The dude just wanted to be President until 2040 but he doesn't have 3m bpd to 'spread the wealth around'...

131 Rexatosis  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:15:48am

Interesting the "International Reporters" were from Venezuela (controlled by Chavez), Nicaragua (Ortega), Peru, and Argentina. There may be more than "neutral reporting" going on with this bunch.

132 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:15:56am
Telesur is financed by Venezuela’s government and its allies

What could anyone possibly object to?

133 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:16:31am

re: #122 pre-Boomer Marine brat

FTFY

Franken will have to start campaigning again soon,
//

134 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:16:45am

Franken --well we know know, officially, what the electorate things of Congress.

135 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:17:22am

re: #127 Picayune

OT: Fox News and Rush just said Franken is decreed winner as Senator!
Hello Cap and Tax, ObamaCare, and God knows what else.

If I'm not mistaken didn't one of the Roman Emporeres appoint his horse as a senator - Caligula I believe?
History repeats itself, in that at least a part of a horses anatomy has just been made a senator.....
/

136 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:17:24am

re: #134 ggt

Franken --well we know know, officially, what the electorate thinKs of Congress.

PIMF

137 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:17:27am

re: #120 jcm

****BREAKING****
State Supreme Court rules for Franken, 5-0

That's about as funny as Franken.

138 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:17:38am

Norm Coleman "may" take decision to Fed Courts - Fox News.

139 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:17:40am

re: #133 jorline

Franken will have to start campaigning again soon,
//

DAMN! I just used up my last barf bag!

140 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:18:02am

re: #135 LGoPs

If I'm not mistaken didn't one of the Roman Emporeres Emperors appoint his horse as a senator - Caligula I believe?
History repeats itself, in that at least a part of a horses anatomy has just been made a senator.....
/

PIMF

141 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:18:42am

Truly, if the majority of voters thinks so little of Congress that they would elect Franken, WTF?

Why not elect a bad comedian--that what's the rest of the congresschumps are in the public eye. No reason not to make it obvious.

142 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:19:21am

re: #134 ggt

Franken --well we know know, officially, what the electorate things of Congress.

Al Franken being sent to Congress......

Youtube Video
143 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:19:36am
144 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:20:03am

re: #135 LGoPs

Here come the Stuart Smally jokes, as they should!

145 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:21:41am

re: #138 Picayune

Norm Coleman "may" take decision to Fed Courts - Fox News.

It doesn't matter if he does or not to Kos kids. Bet they are already screaming over there that Coleman is trying to steal the election like you know who.

146 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:21:56am

re: #144 Picayune

Here come the Stuart Smally jokes, as they should!

"I deserve good things, I am entitled to my share of happiness. I refuse to beat myself up. I am an attractive person. I am fun to be with."

147 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:22:08am

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

The print ad for the "BK Super Seven Incher" — a limited time promotion in Singapore, a society known around the world for its strict government controls of social conduct — shows the "mind-blowing" sandwich near the open mouth of a wide-eyed, red-lipsticked woman accompanied by the suggestive tagline: "It'll blow your mind away."

148 turn  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:22:13am

re: #138 Picayune

Norm Coleman "may" take decision to Fed Courts - Fox News.

It is unlikely since the feds don' have any say in State elections, unlike what they were tasked with in Bush vs Gore.

[Link: wcco.com...]

149 Cygnus  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:22:24am

re: #10 MandyManners

Oooh. They were pointing that little hole that makes the cartridge thingies come out.

Shooty/No Shooty!

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:22:25am

re: #6 razorbacker

Pen and ink?

Charcoal sketches?

Maybe the old reliable Crayola?

I'd like to see those rifle holsters those guys were wearing. Sounds like an idea whose time has not yet arrived.

I think that might be 'pointed' as opposed to 'not pointed'. Or 'in hands' as opposed to 'slung over back'. Hard to tell, though.

151 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:23:03am

I'm almost tempted to go to the Minnesota state web site and find out whether the official name of that panel of jurists is "Supreme Court" or "Guardians Council".

152 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:23:48am

re: #146 redstateredneck

Ah,..... Affirmations!

153 Cygnus  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:23:53am

re: #24 razorbacker

Nah. Dese guys wasn't following the meme.

Not 'high-powered' rifles.

Not 'assault' rifles.

Just 'drawn' rifles.

Amatuers. And pretty rank, at that.

Maybe they meant to say 'drawn swords'.

154 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:24:08am

bbl

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:24:22am

re: #12 ointmentfly

Maybe if they simply reported the news instead of creating it, they wouldn't have so many guns pointed at them...

Freedom of the press is, uh, kind of important. Ya know?

156 Buster  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:24:25am

re: #121 Creeping Eruption

Minnisota recounts work like Iranian recounts.

157 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:24:33am

re: #152 Picayune

Ah,..... Affirmations!

Coming soon from the floor of the Senate.

158 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:24:59am

Minnesota is known as the 'Land of 10,000 Lakes'.

If you have that many lakes, you're bound to have a few lake loons.

That doesn't mean that you have to send one to Congress, but I'm not one to judge.

159 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:24:59am

Rule #1 for deposing overreaching leaders, don't make yourself out to be the bad guy. Even the most despicable asshole can get back into power if the rest of the world thinks your cracking down of civil rights.

160 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:25:21am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

LOL!

*wanders off to find some lunch*

161 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:25:22am

Thanks Minnesota. We'll give you a call in a few months if there's anything left in the country that's worth saving so you can screw that up too.....
///

162 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:25:30am

This, from the State that elected Jesse "The Body" Ventura as Governor. Is anyone truly surprised?

163 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:25:38am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich


A bit more then 7

Youtube Video
164 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:25:44am
Garcia said the four AP journalists were taken to an immigration office where two officials demanded to see their Honduran visas. They were released after explaining they were journalists. Telesur confirmed that its journalists were also released.

Because that's so much worse than this or this.

/

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:26:11am

re: #27 jones

Never is a long time. What if W. came out behind the podium and punched a deserving moonbat in the jaw, mid-hostile question.

Unless the deserving moonbat had said something grossly insulting about his wife or daughters, I would say that was beyond inappropriate. We don't behave like that.

166 Cygnus  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:26:12am

re: #33 Creeping Eruption

Rifle Holster

I could use one of those for my camera tripod.

167 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:26:15am

re: #160 scottishbuzzsaw

LOL!

*wanders off to find some lunch*

{scottish}

Enjoy your lunch. ;)

168 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:26:22am

re: #159 Idle Drifter

your => you're PIMF

169 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:27:17am

The Chavez-Honduran Pres. team is trying to foist stories of the military killing civilians on the media. They hope they report on it and push it forward, leaving the people the desire their president in return.

Chavez has tried to do this in Peru a few weeks ago and accomplished it in Bolivia.

It seems like the military might be trying to prevent this reporting...

Heard this theory on Bill Bennett this morning from someone in the know.

170 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:27:37am

re: #163 Cannadian Club Akbar

A bit more then 7

Hold the onions please!

171 Former Belgian  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:28:04am

re: #140 LGoPs

PIMF

There are actually some revisionist historians who claim that Caligula appointing his horse as a senator was actually a political statement. Something like "OK, if a horse's *ss can be a senator, why not the whole horse?"

Say hello to 0bamacare, Cr*p-and-Tax, the "Iraq moneyshot plan",...

172 filetandrelease  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:28:24am

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ITS LIKE NAZI GERMANY ALL OVER AGAIN!

/


LOL that is just funny as shit.

174 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:28:35am

re: #14 Ward Cleaver

The AP and Telesur? I'm okay with that. Kick them out.

I understand why they shut Telesur down. The last thing they wanted was Chavista propaganda flooding the country. Also, the media seems to believe their job is to incite the leftists and help bring down the government rather than report the events. Stable governments are a tenuous thing in Latin America and I'm sure the Honduran government wants to prevent this from snowballing into a full scale leftist coup. This ain't the USA.

175 Kragar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:29:12am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Freedom of the press is, uh, kind of important. Ya know?

It is. Too bad so many of them around the world have become political mouthpeices instead of journalists.

176 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:29:40am
177 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:29:52am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

Well throw that on to the pile of "Good Ideas."

178 Zimriel  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:29:57am

re: #174 Wendya

I understand why they shut Telesur down. The last thing they wanted was Chavista propaganda flooding the country. Also, the media seems to believe their job is to incite the leftists and help bring down the government rather than report the events. Stable governments are a tenuous thing in Latin America and I'm sure the Honduran government wants to prevent this from snowballing into a full scale leftist coup. This ain't the USA.

The USA ain't the USA anymore.

179 Cygnus  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:30:25am

re: #92 Creeping Eruption

Try a bound appendix?

I think there's a surgical procedure to fix that.

180 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:30:41am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Freedom of the press is, uh, kind of important. Ya know?

Not if it's a propoganda organ......as Telesur seems to be.

181 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:30:41am

re: #156 Buster

Minnisota recounts work like Iranian recounts.

Some of the same people who worked for the (D) recount in WA in '04 went to MN for this one.

182 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:31:38am

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It is. Too bad so many of them around the world have become political mouthpeices instead of journalists.

When they become activists, they are no longer journalists.

183 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:32:25am
Antes del amanecer de hoy lanzaron alrededor de 200 soldados profesionales bien entrenados y armados contra la residencia del Presidente, los que apartando rudamente la escuadra de la Guardia de Honor secuestraron a Zelaya, quien en ese momento dormía, lo conducen a la base aérea, lo montan por la fuerza en un avión y lo transportan a un aeropuerto en Costa Rica.

/pure evil

184 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:32:26am

re: #86 ~Fianna

Lawhawk - upding on the appearances thing.

It's my understanding that what the issue was was that the President of Honduras called for a non-binding referendum asking the people if they wanted to hold a constitutional convention. It seems like there's speculation that the President wanted to change the constitution to allow himself to serve in office for more time than currently allowed, but he was trying to do that legally (sorta, I guess like what Bloomberg is trying to do in New York.)

I don't see that as being particularly nefarious, I guess. It's a better way of going about that than ordering the military to detain the congress and declaring the constitution amended. I wonder how the people would have voted.

it certainly looks like zelaya had little pull w/ the military to try to use them to further his take over, the military threw him out. his only option was to change the term limits.
since charez, casto, ortega and o are for zelaya, i'll trust the judgment of the military in giving him the boot.

185 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:32:31am

re: #181 jcm

Some of the same people who worked for the (D) recount in WA in '04 went to MN for this one.

Are you sure these folks don't originally hail from Chicago?

186 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:32:50am
187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:32:59am

re: #181 jcm

Some of the same people who worked for the (D) recount in WA in '04 went to MN for this one.


Didn't the Dem is WA ( Gregoire?) get more votes in King county then there were voters?

188 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:33:29am

re: #173 Alouette

People of Minnesota, I hope you are fucking happy now!

AAGH! MY EYES! The goggles! They do nothing!

189 Randall Gross  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:33:52am

I look at this as equivalent to Israel stopping some Al Jazeera reportage during the Hezbollah war. Honduras might not be in a hot war right now, but they are in constitutional crisis brought on through destabilization efforts from Venezuela. I would characterize Thugo's reporters as inimical to Honduras' constitution.

190 twincitiesgirl  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:34:40am

re: #122 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Just read that myself--who said crime doesn't pay? I moved away quite a few years ago, but still have friends and family there. Well, if they endured "The Body" they will have to suck it up and endure "The Crook".

*sigh*

191 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:34:57am

re: #177 Idle Drifter

Well throw that on to the pile of "Good Ideas."

Rev. Bubba Flavel's will not like this.

Youtube Video
192 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:35:41am

re: #120 jcm

****BREAKING****
State Supreme Court rules for Franken, 5-0

it is disgusting when cheaters win.

193 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:35:42am

From Wiki Answers:

As of January 2, 2009 the makeup of the Senate is:

2 Independents

56 Democrats

41 Republicans

1 Seat undecided: Minnesota, Dem. Franken Vs. Rep. Coleman.

Even with that moron Franken seated, it doesn't look like the Democrats can stop a filibuster (i.e. 61 votes), unless a Republican or two jump ship.

(Trying to find the silver lining here. Sigh.)

194 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:35:43am
Senior Obama officials said an overthrow of the Zelaya government had been brewing for days -- and they worked behind the scenes to stop the military and its conservative, wealthy backers from pushing Zelaya out. The U.S. failure to stop the coup gave antagonists such as Chávez room to use events in Honduras to push his own vision for the region.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

This is bullshit. Obama and his lackeys in the State Department should be investigated.

195 Cygnus  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:35:54am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

At least that creepy Burger King guy isn't holding the other end. Ewwwwww!

196 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:36:33am

Hmm. And I was starting to think that maybe there was some merit to this "coup" after all.

/2:30 AM, can't sleep

197 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:36:53am

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't the Dem is WA ( Gregoire?) get more votes in King county then there were voters?

Close, more votes counted than ballots cast in the election.
The final margin of victory was 136 votes.

King Co. counted about 2000 more votes, than voters who voted.

198 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:37:33am

re: #195 Cygnus

At least that creepy Burger King guy isn't holding the other end. Ewwwwww!

Brain bleach anyone?

199 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:38:08am
200 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:38:11am

re: #184 nyc redneck

since charez, casto, ortega and o are for zelaya, i'll trust the judgment of the military in giving him the boot.

Agreed.

201 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:39:01am
202 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:39:09am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

Hard to know who to cheer for (if anyone) in this mess. It's clearly more complex than a simple "military coup", as the press keeps saying (and I retract my statement from yesterday re: the same). But this development does not bode well.

An aside:


As opposed to... in their rifle holsters?

I'm all aQuiver on this one

203 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:39:19am

re: #195 Cygnus

At least that creepy Burger King guy isn't holding the other end. Ewwwwww!

Worst ads I've seen in a long time. The King is a prev!

204 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:39:59am

re: #195 Cygnus

At least that creepy Burger King guy isn't holding the other end. Ewwwwww!

And you just know where he'd be holding it if this was an ad for Carl's Jr./Hardees.

205 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:06am
206 Cygnus  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:16am

re: #198 scottishbuzzsaw

Brain bleach anyone?

I have a nice stockpile of it, just in case.

207 jvic  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:17am

Mao said that a revolution is not a dinner party.

That goes for any forcible transfer of state power, regardless of which side is in the right.

208 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:22am

re: #195 Cygnus

At least that creepy Burger King guy isn't holding the other end. Ewwwwww!

At least it's not a McDonalds ad.

/oh yeah, i went there.

209 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:26am

The Minnesota Supreme Court on Tuesday ordered that Democrat Al Franken be certified as the winner of the state's long-running Senate race.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming

210 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:43am

Yet now you all know about Burger Kings new sandwich.

It worked.

211 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:40:52am

Hubby said it was this bad during the Johnson Administration. Anyone remember?

212 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:41:05am

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

Are the Burger King people insane?

Mad Cow?

213 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:41:16am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

I prefer healthier alternatives.

214 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:41:22am

re: #197 jcm

Close, more votes counted than ballots cast in the election.
The final margin of victory was 136 votes.

King Co. counted about 2000 more votes, than voters who voted.

Am I correct that Dino Rossi decided not to contest?

215 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:41:41am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

Could be worse. Could have been a corn dog.

216 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:41:59am

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

Yet they keep spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on them.

Are the Burger King people insane?

LLL I guess...spend money on crap! I would have fired the ad company.

217 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:42:13am

re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar

Could be worse. Could have been a corn dog.

On a stick?

218 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:42:18am

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

Yet they keep spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on them.

Are the Burger King people insane?

We are talking about it?

219 KingKenrod  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:42:24am

re: #193 subsailor68

From Wiki Answers:

As of January 2, 2009 the makeup of the Senate is:

2 Independents

56 Democrats

41 Republicans

1 Seat undecided: Minnesota, Dem. Franken Vs. Rep. Coleman.

Even with that moron Franken seated, it doesn't look like the Democrats can stop a filibuster (i.e. 61 votes), unless a Republican or two jump ship.

(Trying to find the silver lining here. Sigh.)

January 2nd? So it doesn't include Specter jumping to the Dems, which gives them 56 + Specter + Franken + 2 independents who are leftists (Lieberman can be trusted on defense issues, but that's all). And you only need 60 votes to stop a filibuster.

/silver lining spent on beans

220 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:42:36am

re: #212 scottishbuzzsaw

Mad Cow?

Now that's fuuny

221 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:42:39am

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

Yet they keep spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on them.

Are the Burger King people insane?

They are treading familiar territory. Carl's Jr./Hardee's has been there before.

222 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:42:47am
223 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:43:09am

re: #201 buzzsawmonkey

If there were more votes counted than cast, some of them must have been right.

/moonbat off


Well, you don't want to disenfranchise anybody - you know...'cause that would be wrong.

224 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:43:27am
225 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:43:28am
226 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:44:01am

re: #213 laZardo

I prefer healthier alternatives.

lmao...balanced meals. The good old five a day program.

227 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:44:18am

re: #193 subsailor68

2 Independents

56 Democrats

41 Republicans

Just something to consider... If the Dem majority reaches 2/3 in the Senate, they can impeach the Supreme Court judges they don't like.

228 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:44:23am

re: #219 KingKenrod

January 2nd? So it doesn't include Specter jumping to the Dems, which gives them 56 + Specter + Franken + 2 independents who are leftists (Lieberman can be trusted on defense issues, but that's all). And you only need 60 votes to stop a filibuster.

/silver lining spent on beans

Crap! Forgot that Specter jumped after that. Good point. Thanks. (He said sadly.)

229 Outrider  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:44:26am

re: #225 Iron Fist

Call it what it is. This is the outright theft of a Senate Seat. The Republicans are partly to blame, because they won't get down in the mud and fight. Franken has been trying to steal this seat since November. There can be no real doubt that he managed to steal it based on illegal votes and suppression of Republican votes. That shouldn't be possible in the United States.

It's a "brave new world" eh?
/

230 turn  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:44:32am

re: #209 Nevergiveup

The Minnesota Supreme Court on Tuesday ordered that Democrat Al Franken be certified as the winner of the state's long-running Senate race.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming

One of the comments at kos:

"Message to the GOP (3+ / 0-)

winning elections - ur doin it rong!

Sad to say I agree with that, the GOP is failing big time. This nation is really divided now and the pendulum is swinging far to the left.

231 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:44:42am

re: #225 Iron Fist

Call it what it is. This is the outright theft of a Senate Seat. The Republicans are partly to blame, because they won't get down in the mud and fight. Franken has been trying to steal this seat since November. There can be no real doubt that he managed to steal it based on illegal votes and suppression of Republican votes. That shouldn't be possible in the United States.

You need to visit Chicago more often. It is indeed very possible in these United States.

232 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:45:02am

re: #224 buzzsawmonkey

Corn dogs for horndogs!

Now there's a slogan.


SANFORD FOR GUVNER!

233 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:45:09am

re: #220 jorline

Now that's funny

fixed

234 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:45:49am

Re: Franken...

Well, it shouldn't be all that surprising. He was leading in the most recent counts from what I could tell. What does this mean for the US Senate control? It further limits the chances of a filibuster until 2010.

And the DSCC knows that things aren't going to go their way since they've sent out yet another plea for money to fight the GOP from gaining seats. I think they know time's short and they need lots of help to keep control in Congress.

235 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:45:53am
236 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:46:05am

re: #209 Nevergiveup

The Minnesota Supreme Court on Tuesday ordered that Democrat Al Franken be certified as the winner of the state's long-running Senate race.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

And the hits just keep on coming

Given that this was the same state that elected Jesse Ventura, this actually doesn't surprise me one bit.

/it does make me facepalm though.

237 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:46:11am

bbl

238 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:46:25am

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

But I don't see anyone rushing out to buy one.

Well I'm on a diet?

239 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:46:25am

re: #225 Iron Fist

Call it what it is. This is the outright theft of a Senate Seat. The Republicans are partly to blame, because they won't get down in the mud and fight. Franken has been trying to steal this seat since November. There can be no real doubt that he managed to steal it based on illegal votes and suppression of Republican votes. That shouldn't be possible in the United States.

The only thing left to do is change the national symbol from an eagle to a sheep.
/

240 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:47:00am

re: #227 Mich-again

Just something to consider... If the Dem majority reaches 2/3 in the Senate, they can impeach the Supreme Court judges they don't like.

Only if they also get 2/3rds of the House as well.

Here's an odd tidbit, Jimmy Carter is the only president to serve a full term (4 years) without appointing a single Supreme Court judge.

241 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:47:10am

re: #225 Iron Fist

Call it what it is. This is the outright theft of a Senate Seat. The Republicans are partly to blame, because they won't get down in the mud and fight. Franken has been trying to steal this seat since November. There can be no real doubt that he managed to steal it based on illegal votes and suppression of Republican votes. That shouldn't be possible in the United States.

We paved the way here in Washington. It took her a couple of recounts and a pile of "discovered" ballots, but Gregoire pulled it off - and the next election, she was voted back in.

242 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:47:13am

re: #219 KingKenrod

I guess we can only hope a couple or several Blue Dog Democrat Senators from energy production and industry heavy states don't hold to the party line on passing the American Clean Energy and Security Act.

243 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:47:34am

re: #212 scottishbuzzsaw

Mad Cow?


Makes a pretty big assumption that cow is an ingredient in their burgers.

244 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:47:40am

re: #94 Occasional Reader

So, one possible solution: The Honduran congress agrees to bow to pressure from the "international community", and reinstates Zelaya. Then, impeach him. Keep the plane on the tarmac with engine warm for the return trip to Costa Rica.

/just thinking out loud

Not a bad idea IMHO.

245 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:48:25am
246 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:48:38am

re: #240 Honorary Yooper

Only if they also get 2/3rds of the House as well.

Here's an odd tidbit, Jimmy Carter is the only president to serve a full term (4 years) without appointing a single Supreme Court judge.

It's comforting to know that he did do one thing right.

247 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:48:54am

re: #231 Honorary Yooper

You need to visit Chicago more often. It is indeed very possible in these United States.

Means of Ascent by Robert Caro--

should be required reading, IMHO. How to steal an election, LBJ style. I think Obama followed the same script.

248 DesertSage  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:49:02am

︻┳ テ=一

Hehe....I drew a gun. Now you all have to stop writing.

249 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:49:05am

re: #245 Iron Fist

Right now my despair is almost complete. I picked the wrong year to quit drinking, that is for sure. Right now I just want to sell my house, get out from under my debt, hunker down and weather the storm. Maybe things will improve four years from now.

Amen... I finally got out from under all my debt 2 weeks ago... $35K gone in 6 months...

250 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:49:12am

re: #192 nyc redneck

it is disgusting when cheaters win.


they disallowed the two boxes of votes in the trunk of my car and the five boxes in my pickup truck.

251 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:49:49am

re: #225 Iron Fist

Call it what it is. This is the outright theft of a Senate Seat. The Republicans are partly to blame, because they won't get down in the mud and fight. Franken has been trying to steal this seat since November. There can be no real doubt that he managed to steal it based on illegal votes and suppression of Republican votes. That shouldn't be possible in the United States.

Screw that. It's not important. I wanna know who's in American Idol..........
///

252 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:50:31am

re: #243 Creeping Eruption

Makes a pretty big assumption that cow is an ingredient in their burgers.

Silly me. ;>)

253 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:50:32am

re: #214 LGoPs

Am I correct that Dino Rossi decided not to contest?

The (R) challenged. But for sum reason decided to go after a small target, not the larger issue. They focused on suspected illegal ballots.

The problem with that is after a ballot is dropped in the box, you can no longer tie it to a voter. With mail in they verify the voter info on the outer envelope then open and file the outer envelope, separating the ballot form the voter.

The judge ruled they had to prove a ballot illegal. Put a person on the stand and have that person testify they voted illegally and how they voted.

They didn't go after the systemic problems, ballots counted that were marked "fatal pending" which the voter could not be verified. The determining voter intent. Ballot 96 which was a write in for Christine Rossi, but counted for Gregiore. The counting of several hundred found ballots which had not been in secured custody. Ballots were found 9 different times usually when Rossi and made gains in the daily recount totals.

254 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:50:46am

re: #251 LGoPs

Screw that. It's not important. I wanna know who's in American Idol..........
///

Entertainment is the opiate of the masses.

255 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:51:50am

re: #147 jorline

What's seven inches long and will blow your mind?

Critics Cringe at Ad for Burger King's Latest Sandwich

blow up dolls eat at burger king!
what a message:)

/

256 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:51:51am

Mel Martinez (R-FLA) isn't running for re-election and we have Charlie Christ that will probably take his seat. Christ gave us HUGE tax increases starting tomorrow. And he's very much a greenie. Don't like him. Don't trust his vote. And we are in debt and he just hauls ass and hands it off. Putz.

257 Kragar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:51:52am

Nobody messes with the Burger King!

258 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:52:04am

re: #245 Iron Fist
Remember when Honduras was a retirement option?
Could live like a king on 1000$ a month!
NOW? Not so much...........
May be Belize?

259 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:52:15am

re: #254 ggt

Entertainment is the opiate of the masses.

Bread and Circuses.......we are the Romans.
/

260 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:52:54am

re: #94 Occasional Reader

So, one possible solution: The Honduran congress agrees to bow to pressure from the "international community", and reinstates Zelaya. Then, impeach him. Keep the plane on the tarmac with engine warm for the return trip to Costa Rica.

/just thinking out loud

Deja vu all over again.

261 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:52:57am

re: #259 LGoPs

Bread and Circuses.......we are the Romans.
/

Um...Obama can keep his pants. I don't want to see him in either a Toga or one of those army leather kilts.

262 ~Fianna  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:53:01am

re: #204 CyanSnowHawk

And you just know where he'd be holding it if this was an ad for Carl's Jr./Hardees.

Happy Star (the Carl's Mascot) is actually kinda creepy looking.

It was worse when Carl Jr. died and they ran ads of Happy Star crying. It looked like it had a prison tattoo.

263 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:53:08am
264 Kragar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:53:15am

re: #257 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nobody messes with the Burger King!

And now with the link since my broswer decided to post before I was ready

Image: driveby_2.gif

265 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:53:22am

re: #254 ggt

Entertainment is the opiate of the masses.

If American Idol is the opiate of the masses, I request the real thing to dull my senses until my drug induced death.

266 jayzee  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:53:32am

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Freedom of the press is, uh, kind of important. Ya know?


While it calls for freedom of the press the Honduran constitution also says that it is strictly to be owned and maintained by Hondurans and cannot be owned or financed by outside governments or parties. It has to be run by Hondurans by birth.

These were foreign outfits that were questioned.
[Link: translate.google.com...]

267 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:53:36am

re: #265 Creeping Eruption

If American Idol is the opiate of the masses, I request the real thing to dull my senses until my drug induced death.

Forgot . . ./

268 KingKenrod  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:54:25am

re: #242 Idle Drifter

I guess we can only hope a couple or several Blue Dog Democrat Senators from energy production and industry heavy states don't hold to the party line on passing the American Clean Energy and Security Act.

What really bugs me is that traditional red states Montana, North Dakota, Arkansas, and Virginia all have 2 Democrat senators! How lame does your party have to be that you can't win one seat out of those 4 states?

269 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:54:40am

re: #242 Idle Drifter

I guess we can only hope a couple or several Blue Dog Democrat Senators from energy production and industry heavy states don't hold to the party line on passing the American Clean Energy and Security Act.

I hope our dem state senators say no, I hope the farmers (we lost all of our other heavy industry 30 years ago) grab the pitchforks.

270 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:54:40am

Is it a sure thing at this point that Pwantly is going to sign Franken's election certificate?

FWIW, I don't like the idea of either party having a 60 seat majority.

271 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:54:46am

re: #248 DesertSage

︻┳ テ=一

Hehe....I drew a gun. Now you all have to stop writing.

Your ASCii fu is strong.

272 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:54:49am
273 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:55:32am

re: #248 DesertSage

　　　∧　∧
　　('(‘ω‘∩ "Aaaah! Please don't take my money!"
　　　(　　　)
　　　　v v

274 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:55:43am
275 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:55:57am
276 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:55:59am

re: #264 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not a bad gif. But funny how blood from a shotgun blast splatters the inside of the window that it was shot through. :)

/yeah, it's the little things I notice at times.

277 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:56:07am

re: #242 Idle Drifter

I guess we can only hope a couple or several Blue Dog Democrat Senators from energy production and industry heavy states don't hold to the party line on passing the American Clean Energy and Security Act.

The blue dogs are house coalition. There is no cutesy name for centrist Dem senators.

278 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:56:33am

I'm getting too depressed. Gotta leave for a while........

279 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:56:44am

re: #261 EmmmieG

Um...Obama can keep his pants. I don't want to see him in either a Toga or one of those army leather kilts.

Leather kilts...*swoon*

280 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:58:40am

Gay soldier faces hearing in Syracuse, possible discharge for 'don't ask-don't tell' violation

[Link: www.syracuse.com...]

"I'm an American soldier that happens to be gay. That's the way I was born. It's unfortunate I had to hide that," said Choi, who on Sunday was a celebrity grand marshal in San Francisco's Gay Pride Parade.
In March, Choi outed himself in the Army Times newspaper and on a nationally broadcast MSNBC show to protest the military's policy.

Well if you are gonna shove it in people's faces don't coming crying to me after the fact. You wanted to be an "activist", well so be it. See the policy is " Don't ask, Don't tell" and the addendum " Don't be an a flaming Idiot".

281 redc1c4  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:58:50am

re: #263 Iron Fist

They've been ducking any attempt at leadership for the past eight years, preferring obstructionism to compromise, and counting on the fact that they can blame all failures on the Republicans. That is over with. The Republicans are as impotent as a gelded bull. While this is bad, the Republicans need to make sure that the Democrats own the disasterous public policies that they are going to ramrod through now.

Scary thought. Obama may have just gotten the votes he needs to ramrod gun control down America's throat. I expect that we'll see gun sales go up further.

my wife says we're buying ammo, reloading supplies and spare parts.

/evidently we have enough guns. %-)

282 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:59:17am

Have a great day all!

283 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:59:30am

re: #249 tfc3rid

Amen... I finally got out from under all my debt 2 weeks ago... $35K gone in 6 months...

How the heck did you do that? Win the lotto?

284 turn  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:59:30am

And at the White House, press secretary Robert Gibbs told POLITICO they were “pleased” with the result. spit. Curious, have the Republicans ever had a 60 vote majority?

[Link: www.politico.com...]

285 VioletTiger  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:59:42am

re: #263 Iron Fist


Scary thought. Obama may have just gotten the votes he needs to ramrod gun control down America's throat. I expect that we'll see gun sales go up further.

What did you hear? I have been waiting for my permit for weeks already.

286 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 11:59:57am

re: #277 Conservative Moonbat

The blue dogs are house coalition. There is no cutesy name for centrist Dem senators.

There are Centrist Dem Senators? I thought there were the 'RINO' GOP'ers.

287 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:00:17pm

re: #270 Conservative Moonbat

Is it a sure thing at this point that Pwantly is going to sign Franken's election certificate?

FWIW, I don't like the idea of either party having a 60 seat majority.

I agree with that. It easier to control the shifts to the left or right as the votes in congress come up rather then waiting years to switch to a conservative or liberal congress to reverse too wide a swing.

288 MrPaulRevere  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:00:26pm

Announcer: Al & Tom will be right back after this message. "The Franken & Davis Show" is brought ot you by the International Communist Party: Sooner or later, you'll be Communist. And now.. here's Al & Tom! SNL transcript / [Link: 74.125.47.132...]

289 SecondComing  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:00:52pm

re: #270 Conservative Moonbat

Is it a sure thing at this point that Pwantly is going to sign Franken's election certificate?

FWIW, I don't like the idea of either party having a 60 seat majority.

I just heard ABC News on the radio say that Pwantly said he would.

290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:01:00pm

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

291 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:01:24pm
292 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:01:27pm

re: #283 Honorary Yooper

How the heck did you do that? Win the lotto?

Took every dime I made and created an account to pay it all off... I took about $6K from my long term savings with the hopes to pay it back in a few months...

It was skimping on things for the time... But now I know the value of a dollar again.

293 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:01:41pm

re: #281 redc1c4
Your wife actually said that?
Wow!
I think I just about passed out..........
Could she call Mrs. Loader for me?
LOL

294 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:01:49pm

re: #290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

He'll be sending the 7th Unicorn Cavalry.

295 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:01:54pm

re: #266 jayzee

something about Venezuelan news is rather fishy anyway.

296 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:02:19pm

re: #127 Picayune

Given Byrd and Kennedy's health, I am not sure that they will have enough votes for closure.

297 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:02:32pm

re: #288 MrPaulRevere

...fuck.

/ D:

298 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:02:57pm

re: #296 Shr_Nfr

Given Byrd and Kennedy's health, I am not sure that they will have enough votes for closure.

Why don't hospital beds have wheels?

299 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:03:09pm

re: #263 Iron Fist


Scary thought. Obama may have just gotten the votes he needs to ramrod gun control down America's throat. I expect that we'll see gun sales go up further.

Obama is too smart to squander political capital and lose votes to care about guns, but the paranoia on the right has been good for the gun industry.

300 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:03:34pm

re: #292 tfc3rid

Ah dicipline. It works quite well.

301 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:03:37pm

re: #293 reloadingisnotahobby

Your wife actually said that?
Wow!
I think I just about passed out..........
Could she call Mrs. Loader for me?
LOL

Add Mrs. Eruption to that list as well.

302 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:03:39pm

re: #277 Conservative Moonbat

The blue dogs are house coalition. There is no cutesy name for centrist Dem senators.

Blue dog or centerist are there enough Senators from both parties to block this Act? An Act that could spark a trade war further hampering the economy's recovery.

303 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:04:08pm

3 AM and I'm headin to bed. Nighty.

304 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:04:26pm

Boy Airbus is sure having a bad month.

305 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:04:31pm

re: #295 Eowyn2

Especially when reported by the NYT reporter on the spot Ann Chovee.

306 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:04:34pm

re: #285 VioletTiger

When you get it(the permit) remember to ALLWAYS notify them if you move!
Two friends didn't......Forgot to renew and had to do it all over again!
I've had mine 20 years and four move and allways remember...

307 Syrah  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:04:50pm

re: #290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

What a happy thought. American troops fighting and dieing to reinstall a Chavez/Ortega toady.

308 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:04:52pm
309 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:00pm

Joke of the day:
IAEA Director: Iran Wants Recognition, Not Nukes

Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Mohamed El-Baradei said that an agreement between Iran and the U.S was necessary and possible, according to a report in the Egyptian daily Al-Ahram. He admitted that Iran might already posses the know-how and technology to manufacture a nuclear weapon, but stated that he believed they had no desire to do so.


Where is this guy? I have a couple of bridges to sell him.

310 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:04pm

re: #234 lawhawk

Re: Franken...

Well, it shouldn't be all that surprising. He was leading in the most recent counts from what I could tell. What does this mean for the US Senate control? It further limits the chances of a filibuster until 2010.

And the DSCC knows that things aren't going to go their way since they've sent out yet another plea for money to fight the GOP from gaining seats. I think they know time's short and they need lots of help to keep control in Congress.


mine came from "Al Gore" I'm still wondering where the hell the DSCC got my email.

311 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:12pm

re: #291 Iron Fist

Why would there be? Centerist Democrat Senators are an extinct species. The Democrats killed them off. Even Lieberman isn't really a centerist. He's far-Left on everything except national defense, and look what they did to him.

And he still caucuses with them. Like I said, he's no centerist.

Even Bayh, Salazar, The Nelson brothers, what's her face down in LA. There are some.

312 laZardo  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:12pm

re: #294 Kosh's Shadow

It must be pretty bad if he's gonna be sending the 229th Rainbow Battalion.

313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:13pm

re: #290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

No, no, we don't meddle. I know this because President Hopeandchange said so last week.
//

314 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:22pm

re: #290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

While there's fairly recent precedent for a US President using military force to re-install a deposed left-wing president in the hemisphere (Clinton/Aristide), I kind of doubt Obama will take that route.

The interesting thing will be, what happens if Chavez tries to do so (as he has threatened)?

315 MrPaulRevere  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:05:30pm

Al Franken: Thank you! Thank you! You see, besides being a professional comedy team, Tom and I are international Communist revolutionaries... and we believe that nothing can really be changed in this country, through the Democratic process! [ brief applause ] Oh, thank you! We're glad a lot of you feel that way! More SNL transcripts/ [Link: 74.125.47.132...]

316 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:06:37pm

re: #307 Syrah

What a happy thought. American troops fighting and dieing to reinstall a Chavez/Ortega toady.

It was more to my liking when we were welling sub par weapons to the Iranians, thru an Israeli middleman, to fund the Contras. Now that's Foreign Policy!

317 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:07:21pm

Here is an interesting piece from Strafor on the gathering Honduran political storm, from five days ago (three days before the coup, or "coup", or whetever the heck it is).

318 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:08:03pm

re: #240 Honorary Yooper

Only if they also get 2/3rds of the House as well.

Here's an odd tidbit, Jimmy Carter is the only president to serve a full term (4 years) without appointing a single Supreme Court judge.

/crossing self and I'm not Catholic.

319 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:08:32pm

re: #299 avanti

I bought my Bushmaster Carbon M4 along with 9 magazines back in October. Those zombies aren't going to shot themselves in the head.

//////////////////////////////////////heavy sarcasim.

320 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:08:42pm

re: #308 Iron Fist

He said he wasn't going to come after the guns. That he didn't have the votes to do it.

And, of course, no mention of the constapatitution-thingy at all. (Anyway, I'm pretty sure that particular bit is all about duck hunting.)

321 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:09:08pm

re: #299 avanti

Obama is too smart to squander political capital and lose votes to care about guns, but the paranoia on the right has been good for the gun industry.

Guns will always be a sideline. Some little rider tacked on to the massive energy tax bill or as a part of the medical bill (research money to do studies on how lead bullets are more injurious than copper ones thereby making lead bullets as illegal as lead paint.) they won't come right out and grab all the guns, they'll make the ammo unavailable and reloading supplies will be black market fare.

322 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:09:20pm

re: #304 NevergiveupYemenia Airways had a sufficiently bad maintenance record that the EU told them to come up with a plan to bring it up to spec or they would not be allowed to land in the EU any more. They almost stopped letting them land at the time they said plan or else it was so bad. I think it is less airbus and more Yemenia Airways this time.

323 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:09:27pm

re: #319 Idle Drifter

I bought my Bushmaster Carbon M4 along with 9 magazines back in October.

But did you buy enough Carbon credits to offset it?

324 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:09:41pm

re: #319 Idle Drifter

shot => shoot

Youtube Video

Same goes for infected too!

//////////////////////

325 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:09:50pm

OT:

I didn't realize on the Sanford thread about his additional dalliances that it was with other women, not just the Argentinian.

326 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:09:57pm
327 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:10:08pm

re: #308 Iron Fist

Doesn't matter, his word is worth for shit anyway.

328 wahabicorridor  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:10:21pm

re: #268 KingKenrod

What really bugs me is that traditional red states Montana, North Dakota, Arkansas, and Virginia all have 2 Democrat senators! How lame does your party have to be that you can't win one seat out of those 4 states?

Well, speaking as a long-time (over 2o yrs) resident of Virginia, I can tell you the deal here. Most of the state in geographic terms is red. But in population terms, Northern Virginia, which is blue, cancels that out.

329 Velvet Elvis  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:11:27pm

re: #321 Eowyn2

Guns will always be a sideline. Some little rider tacked on to the massive energy tax bill or as a part of the medical bill (research money to do studies on how lead bullets are more injurious than copper ones thereby making lead bullets as illegal as lead paint.) they won't come right out and grab all the guns, they'll make the ammo unavailable and reloading supplies will be black market fare.

Let me let you in on a little secret here. An awful lot of democrats support a strong 2nd amendment. (myself included.) The support just isn't there and it would be political suicide for the whole party to try and push it through.

330 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:11:44pm

re: #323 Occasional Reader

But did you buy enough Carbon credits to offset it?

How many undead and infected released from their torment offsets my carbon footprint?

/////

331 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:11:54pm

re: #313 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, no, we don't meddle. I know this because President Hopeandchange said so last week.
//

Don't forget the double standard nuance to that position:

When Iranian thugs are shooting unarmed protesters, that's a purely internal affair into which we cannot meddle.

When a Jew in the West Bank adds a rumpus room to his house, that's "settlement expansion", and is a Crime Against Humanity which we must all urgently confront.

I hope this is a little clearer now.

332 Syrah  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:12:04pm

re: #316 Nevergiveup

It was more to my liking when we were welling sub par weapons to the Iranians, thru an Israeli middleman, to fund the Contras. Now that's Foreign Policy!

Ortega figured into that mess too. The Dems were meeting him on the side then also.

If we look at who the Leadership of the Democrat Party supports on the world scene, are we to feel reassured about what they want to do with our country?

333 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:12:10pm
334 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:12:14pm

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

With Franken's victory, we now officially have a Mack Senate.

Excellent!

335 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:12:20pm

re: #308 Iron Fist

I haven't heard anything, I'm just recalling what Obama said about gun control during the election. He said he wasn't going to come after the guns. That he didn't have the votes to do it. That was tossed off as an arbitrary remark, not telepromptered, and no so-called journalist ever followed up on it. The way I took it was that if he had the votes his take on that would change.

Here you go:

"A woman in the crowd told Obama she had “heard a rumor” that he might be planning some sort of gun ban upon being elected president. Obama trotted out his standard policy stance, that he had a deep respect for the “traditions of gun ownership” but favored measures in big cities to keep guns out of the hands of “gang bangers and drug dealers’’ in big cities “who already have them and are shooting people.”

That is the impression I got, but no reporter ever asked him to clarify his rather ambiguous statement.

Here's the comment:

"A woman in the crowd told Obama she had “heard a rumor” that he might be planning some sort of gun ban upon being elected president. Obama trotted out his standard policy stance, that he had a deep respect for the “traditions of gun ownership” but favored measures in big cities to keep guns out of the hands of “gang bangers and drug dealers’’ in big cities “who already have them and are shooting people.
If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. “This can’t be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. I’m not going to take away your guns.’’

336 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:12:29pm

re: #321 Eowyn2

Guns will always be a sideline. Some little rider tacked on to the massive energy tax bill or as a part of the medical bill (research money to do studies on how lead bullets are more injurious than copper ones thereby making lead bullets as illegal as lead paint.) they won't come right out and grab all the guns, they'll make the ammo unavailable and reloading supplies will be black market fare.

Two years there was the OSHA change of classification for ammo that would have made retail sale and residential storage of ammo virtually impossible. Fortunately people noticed and it got canned.

337 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:13:02pm

re: #321 Eowyn2

Funny, I aways thought that the purpose of a bullet shot at a living object was to cause damage, the more the better per caliber. The choice of caliber is dependent on what you wish to take out and how hard you want to take it out.

338 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:13:29pm

re: #326 buzzsawmonkey

Don't forget the reallocation of strategic metals like copper and brass.

yes, we need more pennies.

Copper mining is not very profitable right now. Hasn't been for years.

339 Idle Drifter  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:13:49pm

It's been fun BBL.

340 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:13:51pm

re: #280 Nevergiveup

Well if you are gonna shove it in people's faces don't coming crying to me after the fact. You wanted to be an "activist", well so be it. See the policy is " Don't ask, Don't tell" and the addendum " Don't be an a flaming Idiot".

They first became suspicious because of his repeated requests to be transferred to Fort Dix.

/sorry

//btw, I think "don't ask don't tell" is schtoopid and should be scrapped

341 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:14:14pm

re: #330 Idle Drifter

How many undead and infected released from their torment offsets my carbon footprint?

/////

280 or so?
/

342 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:14:38pm

re: #332 Syrah

Ortega figured into that mess too. The Dems were meeting him on the side then also.

If we look at who the Leadership of the Democrat Party supports on the world scene, are we to feel reassured about what they want to do with our country?


Well I sleep less well at night.

343 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:14:53pm

re: #335 avanti

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’

And when he has the votes?

344 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:15:02pm

[Link: www.nraila.org...]
One way they will try to come after
us "Recovering Reloaders"........Ahem,
The 12 step Program...Sucke!

345 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:15:08pm

re: #330 Idle Drifter

How many undead and infected released from their torment offsets my carbon footprint?

/////

I think you should offer an Outstretched Hand to any zombie who promises not to eat your Unclenched Fist.

346 hazzyday  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:15:27pm

In the corrupt Seattle 2004 election process the Democrats were better at gaming the system and taking advantages of technicalities. The republicans acted like they couldn't be concerned.

When it was determined that the election for Gov had an 8 vote Rossi lead difference and that many ballots were unclear. The Democrats went and obtained the voters addresses of the unclear democratic ballots. These people then were visited by Democratic operatives in an effort to clear up their vote. This was a clear violation of the election process to me.

I stood behind some guy in the polling line who voted twice. Once by absentee and once by provisional. He had an excuse. It was the Jim McDermott district.

Then the County Executive held up inquiries into the integrity of the election until enough time had passed that the complaints were diluted. He now works for Pres Obama. He's a good guy but has some political and power lapses.

347 bobbuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:15:30pm

re: #37 Occasional Readerre: #37 Occasional Reader

One quibble:
"Assault rifle" is a perfectly legitimate firearms term. It's "assault weapon" that's b.s.

Huh. I thought rock salt was fired from shotguns...

348 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:15:37pm

re: #325 Creeping Eruption

OT:

I didn't realize on the Sanford thread about his additional dalliances that it was with other women, not just the Argentinian.

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford said Tuesday that he "crossed lines" with a handful of women other than his mistress -- but never had sex with them.

349 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:15:38pm

re: #337 Shr_Nfr

Funny, I aways thought that the purpose of a bullet shot at a living object was to cause damage, the more the better per caliber. The choice of caliber is dependent on what you wish to take out and how hard you want to take it out.

Not in the unicorn world

350 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:16:00pm

re: #335 avanti

Here's the comment:

"A woman in the crowd told Obama she had “heard a rumor” that he might be planning some sort of gun ban upon being elected president. Obama trotted out his standard policy stance, that he had a deep respect for the “traditions of gun ownership” but favored measures in big cities to keep guns out of the hands of “gang bangers and drug dealers’’ in big cities “who already have them and are shooting people.
If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. “This can’t be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. I’m not going to take away your guns.’’


"Even if I want to"? Hmmm.

I wonder if this is anything like saying he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class, an assertion even the media is laughing about now.

351 ~Fianna  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:16:02pm

re: #338 Eowyn2

Actually it's very profitable. That's why lots of places are having streetlights and air conditioners dismantled for the wiring inside. Scrap copper is worth quite a bit of money.

Mining is the only industry in NV that's currently doing anything at all. the rest of the state is a wreck, but the mining counties have the lowest unemployment they've had in a decade or so.

352 VioletTiger  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:16:16pm

I can't believe Franken may actually be in the senate. Sorry Minnesota, but what the hell were you thinking? This guy is an ass--why would anybody D or R want him making laws?

353 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:16:18pm

Franken is in for a rude awakening.

He's use to taking shots at everyone...now he will know what it's like to be the clay pigeon and have to hold his tongue.

Al "Buckshot" Franken

354 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:16:26pm
355 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:16:47pm

re: #335 avanti

avanti, please tell me you can spot the weasel-words in Obama's answer.

Please, tell me that.

356 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:17:08pm

re: #321 Eowyn2

Bingo!
The bill none of them f^&king read!

357 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:17:24pm

re: #346 hazzyday

In the corrupt Seattle 2004 election process the Democrats were better at gaming the system and taking advantages of technicalities. The republicans acted like they couldn't be concerned.

When it was determined that the election for Gov had an 8 vote Rossi lead difference and that many ballots were unclear. The Democrats went and obtained the voters addresses of the unclear democratic ballots. These people then were visited by Democratic operatives in an effort to clear up their vote. This was a clear violation of the election process to me.

I stood behind some guy in the polling line who voted twice. Once by absentee and once by provisional. He had an excuse. It was the Jim McDermott district.

Then the County Executive held up inquiries into the integrity of the election until enough time had passed that the complaints were diluted. He now works for Pres Obama. He's a good guy but has some political and power lapses.

Did you just call Ron Sims "a good guy"? What makes you say that?

358 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:18:03pm

On Drudge: Beware the Obama Evil Eye!

We ordinary folks call that intimidation tactics. Not a good character trait.

359 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:18:18pm

re: #335 avanti

[Link: cbs2chicago.com...]

360 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:18:38pm

re: #353 jorline

Franken is in for a rude awakening.

He's use to taking shots at everyone...now he will know what it's like to be the clay pigeon and have to hold his tongue.

Al "Buckshot" Franken

My prediction: He will get into a fist fight within two years. He's a crazy bastard and a notorious hot head.

361 justabill  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:18:43pm

re: #347 bobbuck

re: #37 Occasional Reader


Huh. I thought rock salt was fired from shotguns...

And if you put a C cell in the other barrel its a salt and battery...
/runs

362 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:18:47pm

re: #358 ladycatnip

On Drudge: Beware the Obama Evil Eye!

We ordinary folks call that intimidation tactics. Not a good character trait.

I call it a "tell." Not a good character trait for a world leader.

363 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:19:09pm

re: #343 jcm

And when he has the votes?

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

364 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:19:35pm

re: #340 Occasional Reader

They first became suspicious because of his repeated requests to be transferred to Fort Dix.

/sorry

//btw, I think "don't ask don't tell" is schtoopid and should be scrapped

I think it works fine. It's bozos like this make problems.

365 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:20:24pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

What's Social Security?

366 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:20:26pm

re: #335 avanti

Here's the comment:

"A woman in the crowd told Obama she had “heard a rumor” that he might be planning some sort of gun ban upon being elected president. Obama trotted out his standard policy stance, that he had a deep respect for the “traditions of gun ownership” but favored measures in big cities to keep guns out of the hands of “gang bangers and drug dealers’’ in big cities “who already have them and are shooting people.
If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. “This can’t be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. I’m not going to take away your guns.’’

And you know you can just trust Obama to keep his word... he has never lied before about anything...

Do I need to..?

367 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:20:38pm
368 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:20:51pm

Your Honor,Please let the record show that it was not I,Reloader,
that higjacked this thread to the issue of guns!
( Pointing finger) I believe it was that man!Iron Fist !

369 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:21:22pm

re: #280 Nevergiveup

Gay soldier faces hearing in Syracuse, possible discharge for 'don't ask-don't tell' violation

[Link: www.syracuse.com...]

"I'm an American soldier that happens to be gay. That's the way I was born. It's unfortunate I had to hide that," said Choi, who on Sunday was a celebrity grand marshal in San Francisco's Gay Pride Parade.
In March, Choi outed himself in the Army Times newspaper and on a nationally broadcast MSNBC show to protest the military's policy.

Well if you are gonna shove it in people's faces don't coming crying to me after the fact. You wanted to be an "activist", well so be it. See the policy is " Don't ask, Don't tell" and the addendum " Don't be an a flaming Idiot".

Many Americans feel that he just wants to have his cock and eat it too.

370 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:21:37pm

re: #79 Charles

I'm not so sure the civilian government is still running things, if the army's going around to TV stations and newspapers and shutting things down.

That would depend if they were acting on orders from the congress and the courts. Unlike the US, the army in Honduras acts as an instrument of the Honduran government. They don't have a Posse comitatus act. The army did not independently remove Zelaya, they acted on orders from the government.

371 VioletTiger  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:21:54pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

Hmm, well I never thought an American President could fire a CEO of a corporation, decide salaries, or appoint 'Czars' who need no congressional approval but wield much power over our lives---but it happened. Not putting anything past this administration.

372 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:22:02pm

re: #368 reloadingisnotahobby

Nah, but you are abetting the issue. ;)

373 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:22:12pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

will they do it in one shot... no... they will do it slowly.. first ban the "ugly and mean" assault rifles... then make ammo expensive with a tax to help pay for the socialized health care cause guns are causing all the gunshot victims.. (not the people doing the shooting).. then pass more small laws to raise the price of guns, make them harder to sell and buy... register everything...

Its how you boil a frog...

374 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:22:21pm

re: #345 Occasional Reader

I think you should offer an Outstretched Hand to any zombie who promises not to eat your Unclenched Fist.

That won't work, because zombies don't eat fists, they want brains.

375 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:23:16pm

re: #372 BlueCanuck

Thankyou!
My plesure I'm sure...........

376 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:23:19pm

re: #353 jorline

Franken is in for a rude awakening.

He's use to taking shots at everyone...now he will know what it's like to be the clay pigeon and have to hold his tongue.

Al "Buckshot" Franken

He has quite the mandate!

377 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:23:22pm

re: #363 avanti

No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.


Here boy, here boy...

378 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:23:23pm

re: #290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

More likely he would voice support for Chavez sending in troops.

379 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:23:37pm

re: #350 capitalist piglet

"Even if I want to"? Hmmm.

I wonder if this is anything like saying he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class, an assertion even the media is laughing about now.

Have taxes gone up on the middle class, or is that just media speculation ? Banning guns besides being unconstitutional, if simple political suicide, the left learned that lesson well.

380 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:23:50pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

Hahahahahahaha...oh, dear avanti. Dear, naive avanti.

381 wahabicorridor  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:24:37pm

re: #371 VioletTiger

To say nothing about violataing contract/bankruptcy law.

382 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:24:49pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

Yeah, like the fucking tax break increase I was promised.

Obama has so many versions of his stance on issues you need a score card.

I go with the position that is consistent with his background, his consistent life long choices in associates, and key words in his language.

He doesn't have a consistent voting record other than "present" to go on.
He does have a consistent theme in his life.

383 justabill  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:24:54pm

re: #374 Kosh's Shadow

That won't work, because zombies don't eat fists, they want brains.

Fortunately for libs, they don't have any brains to eat.
/

385 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:26:14pm

re: #365 jorline

What's Social Security?

Old people legally stealing from young people.

386 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #374 Kosh's Shadow

That won't work, because zombies don't eat fists, they want brains.

Does Zombie know that he/she/carbon-based life form only eats brains..

387 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:26:44pm

re: #379 avanti

Have taxes gone up on the middle class, or is that just media speculation ? Banning guns besides being unconstitutional, if simple political suicide, the left learned that lesson well.

If you limit the argument to an increase in the income tax, you can raise every other tax and still claim you didn't jack up taxes on the middle class. Who do you think pays all those tax increases?

388 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:26:54pm

re: #379 avanti

First it will be a safty issue!
If you reload and have powder It becomes an EXPLOSIVE!
Hazmat laws ,registration and licencing to purchase,
special containment / storage of powder....etc
The Primers.....see above list and on and on...........

389 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:26:59pm

re: #367 Iron Fist

Another thing to note is that he didn't mention the Second Amendment at all

And, of course, he referred to "if you [already] have a gun in your house..."; nothing about if you want to buy a new one. And never mind, the shenanigans mentioned above about ammo, etc.

390 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:27:01pm

re: #37 Occasional Reader

One quibble:


"Assault rifle" is a perfectly legitimate firearms term. It's "assault weapon" that's b.s.

Pffft, I have a Battle Rifle.......

*enjoying the sounds of lefty heads popping*

391 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:27:06pm

re: #335 avanti

And he wont run for president in 2008

392 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:27:43pm

re: #366 MikeAlv77

And you know you can just trust Obama to keep his word... he has never lied before about anything...

Do I need to..?

You think he has enough unicorns to ignore the second amendment then ? Every election I hear the same mantra, "There coming after your guns" , and it's getting old. You can thank the framers for the second amendment protections of that right.

393 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:27:47pm

Here's another tidbit to brighten our day: Queen Michele the First?

Personally, I think Obama is going to be a good “queen” for America during the next four years. But the problem with monarchical power is that you never know what you are going to get next.

Just had to slip in that obsequious remark for his conclusion - must stay in their good graces. Otherwise he might have gotten the Obama evil eye.

395 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:28:24pm

re: #379 avanti

Have taxes gone up on the middle class, or is that just media speculation ? Banning guns besides being unconstitutional, if simple political suicide, the left learned that lesson well.

Yup. It will be a stunning turnaround if taxes go up on anyone.

396 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:28:28pm
397 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:28:29pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on... the 2nd amendment

Isn't it odd how Barack Obama, Constitutional Law Scholar Extraordinaire kinda sorta forgot to mention that little detail when he gave his answer?

398 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:28:32pm

re: #365 jorline

What's Social Security?

When Bernie Madoff does it wort 2.2 years per billion.

When Congress does it worth all kinds of fringe benefits.

399 VioletTiger  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:28:34pm

re: #382 jcm

I have started to compile a promises made/promises broken list.

400 SixDegrees  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:28:50pm

re: #365 jorline

What's Social Security?

A system which, if run by a private citizen, would net them 150 years in jail.

401 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:29:00pm

re: #390 jcm

Pffft, I have a Battle Rifle.......

*enjoying the sounds of lefty heads popping*

As opposed to what? A Consensus-Building Rifle?

/

402 nikis-knight  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:29:07pm

re: #280 Nevergiveup

Gay soldier faces hearing in Syracuse, possible discharge for 'don't ask-don't tell' violation

[Link: www.syracuse.com...]

"I'm an American soldier that happens to be gay. That's the way I was born. It's unfortunate I had to hide that," said Choi, who on Sunday was a celebrity grand marshal in San Francisco's Gay Pride Parade.
In March, Choi outed himself in the Army Times newspaper and on a nationally broadcast MSNBC show to protest the military's policy.

Well if you are gonna shove it in people's faces don't coming crying to me after the fact. You wanted to be an "activist", well so be it. See the policy is " Don't ask, Don't tell" and the addendum " Don't be an a flaming Idiot".

I don't like it that we are recruiting that young!

403 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #392 avanti

You think he has enough unicorns to ignore the second amendment then ? Every election I hear the same mantra, "There coming after your guns" , and it's getting old. You can thank the framers for the second amendment protections of that right.

And even though the Supreme court stated the 2nd is an individual right, I still see cities and states moving to further restrict that right.

404 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:29:21pm

re: #387 Wendya

If you limit the argument to an increase in the income tax, you can raise every other tax and still claim you didn't jack up taxes on the middle class. Who do you think pays all those tax increases?

That's the plan. Carbon tax, health benefit tax, etc.
(What happens when no one is left with private insurance? What will they tax then to cover Obamacare?)

405 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:29:31pm
406 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:29:53pm
407 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:00pm

re: #382 jcm

Yeah, like the fucking tax break increase I was promised.

I thought the reduced rate had gone into effect by now, I got mine, but I'm retired. I know it was only a few bucks, but not a increase.

408 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:10pm

re: #399 VioletTiger

Your gointa need more RAM...Pun intended!

409 jorline  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:10pm

re: #376 debutaunt

He has quite the mandate!

zbdent Tue Jan-06-09 07:07 PM
Original message
Al Franken has a greater mandate than George W. Bush did!

I mean, Bush's 537 vote margin in Florida "gave" him the "mandate", despite actually losing the election (but winning the hearts of 5/9ths of the SCOTUS) ...

According to the loons at Democratic Underground.

410 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:16pm

re: #385 experiencedtraveller

Old people legally stealing from young people.

Almost. Old people putting money into an account. Congress taking the money, spending it on pet projects and throwing in an IOU. And Bernie Madoff got 150 years for his Ponzi scheme. What do politicians get? Oh, yea, re elected.

411 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:29pm

re: #379 avanti

Have taxes gone up on the middle class, or is that just media speculation ? Banning guns besides being unconstitutional, if simple political suicide, the left learned that lesson well.

Start with the tobacco tax...who do you think is paying that? The Rich™?

412 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:30pm

re: #379 avanti

Have taxes gone up on the middle class

Have you Traded your Capon today? Because it Obama has his way, you will.

And YES, it will amount to an enormous tax increase on EVERYONE.

413 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:30:49pm

re: #392 avanti

You think he has enough unicorns to ignore the second amendment then ? Every election I hear the same mantra, "There coming after your guns" , and it's getting old. You can thank the framers for the second amendment protections of that right.

Talk to the people in Chicago, CA and DC.

It's here. And they keep trying, while not taking the guns to take the guns.

Civics quiz time.

What is the primary function of the 2nd Amend?

414 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:31:32pm

re: #392 avanti

You think he has enough unicorns to ignore the second amendment then ? Every election I hear the same mantra, "There coming after your guns" , and it's getting old. You can thank the framers for the second amendment protections of that right.

He is ignoring the rest of the constitution. Like I said before, he won't get rid of guns... he will slowly regulate them out of existence.. over time and in small increments...

415 Cosmic X  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:31:56pm

re: #394 Wendya

Nice!

416 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:31:56pm

See you guys later. I'm going to go sit in the hot tub...I need it. Ugh!

417 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:32:00pm

re: #401 Occasional Reader

As opposed to what? A Consensus-Building Rifle?

/

Absolutely. The victor determines the consensus.

419 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:33:09pm

re: #395 debutaunt

Yup. It will be a stunning turnaround if taxes go up on anyone.

Hell no, it would not be a shock, but it's more honest to bitch about a real increase, not a expected one. Yea, I know taxes went up on smokes a while back.

420 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:33:50pm

re: #413 jcm


What is the primary function of the 2nd Amend?

Duck hunting.

/

421 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:34:06pm

re: #418 jcm

2 Kids alive in Yemenia Passenger Plane Crash into Indian Ocean

It's amazing 2 kids survived!

422 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:34:20pm

re: #420 Occasional Reader

Duck hunting.

/

You forgot to duck....

*whack*

423 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:34:23pm
424 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:34:33pm

re: #420 Occasional Reader

Duck hunting.

/

I thought it was to arm bears.

425 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:34:42pm

re: #413 jcm

Talk to the people in Chicago, CA and DC.

It's here. And they keep trying, while not taking the guns to take the guns.

Civics quiz time.

What is the primary function of the 2nd Amend?

To prop up the 3rd amendment?

426 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:34:51pm

re: #420 Occasional Reader

Yuo should DUCK!
LOL Besides It's Wabbit season!

427 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:35:15pm

re: #419 avanti

Hell no, it would not be a shock, but it's more honest to bitch about a real increase, not a expected one. Yea, I know taxes went up on smokes a while back.

I have no problem bitching about expected tax increases. That's generally how you let your legislators know you are unhappy.

428 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:35:16pm

re: #423 buzzsawmonkey

Wabbit hunting!

You're dethpicable.

429 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:35:32pm

re: #413 jcm

Talk to the people in Chicago, CA and DC.

It's here. And they keep trying, while not taking the guns to take the guns.

Civics quiz time.

What is the primary function of the 2nd Amend?


To quell an over reaching government?

430 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:36:01pm

re: #388 reloadingisnotahobby

First it will be a safty issue!
If you reload and have powder It becomes an EXPLOSIVE!
Hazmat laws ,registration and licencing to purchase,
special containment / storage of powder....etc
The Primers.....see above list and on and on...........

I hate those kinds of laws. I can't buy a decent carburetor cleaner now unless it's safe if sprayed in my eyes. The same with auto paint, if I did not have connections, I could not buy it.

431 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:36:25pm

re: #428 Occasional Reader

Besides...I have TWO Unicorn Tags for the fall!1
Where's that Lizard cook Book..........

432 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:36:54pm

re: #430 avanti

Are you in Calif?

433 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:37:12pm

re: #414 MikeAlv77

He is ignoring the rest of the constitution. Like I said before, he won't get rid of guns... he will slowly regulate them out of existence.. over time and in small increments...

Again, we'll just agree to disagree and trust that you'll keep his feet to the fire if that comes up.

434 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:37:45pm
435 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:07pm

re: #409 jorline

According to the loons at Democratic Underground.

Good lord.

436 Kragar  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:17pm

re: #385 experiencedtraveller

Old people legally stealing from young people.

When the government runs it, its called a program.

When you do it, its a pyramid scheme.

437 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:25pm

re: #430 avanti

I hate those kinds of laws. I can't buy a decent carburetor cleaner now unless it's safe if sprayed in my eyes. The same with auto paint, if I did not have connections, I could not buy it.

Add Nyquil to the list:

[Link: www.abcnews.go.com...]

We must all be restricted so stupid people don't kill themselves.

438 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:41pm

re: #432 reloadingisnotahobby

Are you in Calif?

No, California is much worse, I'm in Maryland.

439 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:46pm

re: #296 Shr_Nfr

What, a little "divine intervention"?

440 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:48pm

re: #436 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And don't you forget it!@!

441 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:48pm
442 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:38:57pm

re: #430 avanti

I hate those kinds of laws. I can't buy a decent carburetor cleaner now unless it's safe if sprayed in my eyes. The same with auto paint, if I did not have connections, I could not buy it.

You seem to be assuming that you're enough of an adult to make decisions for yourself.

Dude... that is just SOOO out of fashion. Where have you been?

443 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #438 avanti

I had no idea it was that bad there !
I have a hell of time finding DDT.................Kidding!

444 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:39:49pm
445 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:40:06pm

re: #429 Cannadian Club Akbar

To quell an over reaching government?



The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

446 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:40:17pm

re: #379 avanti

Have taxes gone up on the middle class, or is that just media speculation ? Banning guns besides being unconstitutional, if simple political suicide, the left learned that lesson well.

The answer is that they have absolutely gone up for everyone. One example: the S-CHIP legislation imposed additional taxes on tobacco products. That tax is paid by all purchasers of tobacco

447 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:40:56pm

re: #442 Occasional Reader

You seem to be assuming that you're enough of an adult to make decisions for yourself.

Dude... that is just SOOO out of fashion. Where have you been?

Some regulation makes sense, lawn darts, and fireworks perhaps.

448 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:41:06pm

re: #290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is there an over/under for if Obama will send troops to Honduras to reinstate Zelaya?

i bet chavez is considering it.
he looks like a weakling since his puppet got his butt kicked.

449 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:41:18pm
450 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:41:19pm

re: #437 Wendya

I heard that they want Cheerios at the Pharmacy counter......
If it as good for you as they claim.....It must be regulated!
Right?
/

451 avanti  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:42:38pm

re: #449 buzzsawmonkey

I think that such regulations are excellent; it's clear to me that you are suffering from some blindness where the President is concerned, and I think it only right that the government intervene so that you will not risk it getting worse.

But it was sniffing the fumes that made me vote for the POTUS. :)

452 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:43:50pm

re: #379 avanti

Frak, just screwed up my previous message with a bad link.

Property taxes keep increasing as states find it more difficult to budget. In NJ, the property tax rebates were eliminated for anyone making over $75,000, which means quite a bit of the middle class was whacked with a significant tax hike. Payroll taxes were hit in NY and CA.

All you have to do is look all around the country and read the taxes that were increased and see just how the middle class is being squeezed on all sides. It's hardly a media speculation, but an objective fact.

Add to that the fact that more taxes will be needed to get the federal budgets under control, and that money is going to come from more than just the wealthy - unless you define wealth down to those making more than $40,000 a year.

453 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:43:55pm

re: #445 jcm


The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Tyrannical ducks?

454 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:44:32pm

re: #447 avanti
You forgot Wood Burning sets and BB gun....
You could put an eye out!

Just heard....A good friend of mine was hiking Sat with a buddy
His friend(Steve) slipped off the trail,hitting his head and died!
I'm sure my friend his NOT dealing w/this well at all!

455 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:46:36pm
456 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:47:41pm

re: #454 reloadingisnotahobby


Just heard....A good friend of mine was hiking Sat with a buddy
His friend(Steve) slipped off the trail,hitting his head and died!
I'm sure my friend his NOT dealing w/this well at all!

Yeesh. I'm sorry to hear that.

Weird how we can get killed in such trivial ways... just slipping and falling.

457 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:47:42pm

re: #240 Honorary Yooper

Only if they also get 2/3rds of the House as well.

Not true. It only takes a simple majority in the House.

458 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:48:11pm

re: #455 buzzsawmonkey

Of course; community organizer canvass-backs.

And when they're in Chicago, naturally they stay at The Drake.

459 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:48:22pm

re: #453 Occasional Reader

Tyrannical ducks?

Precursor to Tyrannosaurus Duck, which ultimately led to Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Dinosaurs did come from birds you know.

460 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:48:47pm

re: #444 Iron Fist

SHUT UP WITH YOUR OPPRESSIVE FACTS!

461 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:51:43pm

re: #447 avanti

Some regulation makes sense, lawn darts, and fireworks perhaps.

Recent CA court case. Self defense shooting.
The shooter was convicted on the grounds that because he used hollow points, this showed pre-meditated intent to cause lethal harm, above and beyond the need for defense.

It's not a huge jump to say use of a gun in self defense show pre-meditated intent to cause lethal harm.

Again, two or three years ago now a BUREAUCRAT in OSHA added language to the Federal Register that would have re-classed ammo the same as hi-explosives. Making retail sale and home storage of ammo nearly impossible.

462 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:52:10pm

re: #452 lawhawk

NJ 2001 property tax: $5,500
NJ 2008 property tax: $13,400

The state of NJ is pimp slapping me...

463 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:52:19pm

re: #351 ~Fianna

Actually it's very profitable. That's why lots of places are having streetlights and air conditioners dismantled for the wiring inside. Scrap copper is worth quite a bit of money.

Mining is the only industry in NV that's currently doing anything at all. the rest of the state is a wreck, but the mining counties have the lowest unemployment they've had in a decade or so.

Mining is doing better than gambling in NV? I'd need to see some figures on that.
The Chillian Copper mines which were owned and operated by US companies were confiscated by the commies. Shirts were lost. I'd have to research how many copper mines (underground and pit) were closed between 1985 and 2000. Montana was hit hard. Employment and the tax base has never recovered though it has improved.
I am glad that the mining towns in NV are doing well but I would have to ask if they are actually doing better than they were 30 years ago. I'm pretty sure they were affected in the 80s as well.

464 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:53:17pm

The Honduran Constitution must be like the US Constitution as liberals portray it- a growing, evolving Constitution. One that's always ready to embrace the continued dictatorship of a leftist, one that's always ready to embrace the liberal mantra of more government, higher taxes, and less personal responsibility.

465 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:53:58pm

re: #462 experiencedtraveller

NJ 2001 property tax: $5,500
NJ 2008 property tax: $13,400

The state of NJ is pimp slapping me...

Cripes and I'm barking mad over $4,500.... and 9% sales tax. And user and license fees and anything and everything.....

466 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #461 jcm

Recent CA court case. Self defense shooting.
The shooter was convicted on the grounds that because he used hollow points, this showed pre-meditated intent to cause lethal harm, above and beyond the need for defense.

That is a shocking affont to justice. Simply outrageous.

Gosh, I guess I'll stock up on, what, Nerf bullets now? Or hey, maybe I'll just use nice, "legal" FMJ ammo... so what if it blows through the wall and kills my neighbor?

467 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 12:58:14pm

re: #466 Occasional Reader

Make sure the Nerf round is non toxic, biodegradable, and isn't attractive to kids.

468 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:01:29pm

re: #466 Occasional Reader

That is a shocking affont to justice. Simply outrageous.

Gosh, I guess I'll stock up on, what, Nerf bullets now? Or hey, maybe I'll just use nice, "legal" FMJ ammo... so what if it blows through the wall and kills my neighbor?

Hollow points are SAFER....
For everyone else.

469 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:01:58pm

re: #462 experiencedtraveller

NJ 2001 property tax: $5,500
NJ 2008 property tax: $13,400

The state of NJ is pimp slapping me...

I am smack in the middle of that and holding steady.

470 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:02:37pm

re: #466 Occasional Reader

That is a shocking affont to justice. Simply outrageous.

Gosh, I guess I'll stock up on, what, Nerf bullets now? Or hey, maybe I'll just use nice, "legal" FMJ ammo... so what if it blows through the wall and kills my neighbor?

Super-soakers come full auto these days.

471 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:03:41pm

re: #467 right_wing2

and isn't attractive to kids.

Very important otherwise it could be considered an attractive nuisance and you can face a personal injury suit along with a felony.

472 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:03:46pm

re: #465 jcm

Cripes and I'm barking mad over $4,500.... and 9% sales tax. And user and license fees and anything and everything.....

Middle class property in a middle class town re-appraised at the peak in 2006 and rising every single year.

473 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:04:27pm

Norm Coleman just threw in the towel! Nice guys finish last, damn it. Take off the gloves, and get out the wuup ass, Repubs.

474 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:06:06pm

re: #473 Picayune

Cr-p. Congress has just become an even bigger joke than it already was.

475 right_wing2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:07:02pm

Franken was selected, not elected

476 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:07:31pm

re: #461 jcm

Recent CA court case. Self defense shooting.
The shooter was convicted on the grounds that because he used hollow points


So, the next time you're in a fight, are you supposed to slap instead of punch?

477 Picayune  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:10:20pm

re: #474 right_wing2

Yep, MN just sent in its Clown!

478 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:11:20pm

re: #472 experiencedtraveller

Middle class property in a middle class town re-appraised at the peak in 2006 and rising every single year.

My property assessment was raised the max allowed 7% despite the 12% decline in average values in my area.

On top of that the rate for me increased 13%.

479 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:12:11pm

re: #363 avanti

Then you fall back on his pledge to not take away your guns, the 2nd amendment and the knowledge the Dems would be tossed out on their ear for the vote.
No one is talking away your guns, even if the party in power wanted to, it's like voting against Social Security.

Presidential Fiat.
Addending the constitution so that, although the right to keep and bear arms is not infringed upon, the actual ability to do so will put you in the cross hairs of every homeland security agent on the planet.

480 SixDegrees  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:13:00pm

re: #461 jcm

Recent CA court case. Self defense shooting.
The shooter was convicted on the grounds that because he used hollow points, this showed pre-meditated intent to cause lethal harm, above and beyond the need for defense.

Links? I'm not finding any news articles on this, and I'd be interested in reading about the case directly.

481 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:13:17pm

re: #476 Wendya

So, the next time you're in a fight, are you supposed to slap instead of punch?

No violence allowed in self defense!

482 bunnymud  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:13:43pm

Under the Honduran Constitution the removal of Zelaya by the Military and his subsequent exile with the concurrence of the Supreme Court was apparently entirey appropriate and legal. Under the Honduran Constitution there are three relatively coequal branches: executive, legislative and judicial. No surprises there. However, the Military, something of a separate branch to itself, is given the explicit role of making sure that the executive branch complies with the constitution. Zelaya was attempting to have a public vote to allow him to run for a second term which is not allowed under the Honduran constitution. This proposed public vote was extra-constitutional and it wasn't authorized by any of the other branches or the military. Honduras has had a relatively stable democracy for more than 25 years. This is the first time the military has ever done something like this and it appears that they acted appropriately under their constitution. I have no horse in this race, neither left nor right. It just seems that everyone has over reacted and raced to conclusions without looking into the reality and legality of what happened.

483 The 1SG  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:16:33pm

So just joining here but has anyone noticed that the pictures that have come out of Honduras show (very few) 10 or so regular protesters. Mostly people standing around. At last count only 200 people are protesting the regime change. And in one report a business as usual in downtown. So I get the feeling this is not such a shock to the people of 3.8 million residents.

484 SixDegrees  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #478 jcm

My property assessment was raised the max allowed 7% despite the 12% decline in average values in my area.

On top of that the rate for me increased 13%.

Sure. Home prices have increased faster than whatever cap you have in place for several years, so your rates have been held below the property's actual value. The taxing authority is allowed to play catch-up, though; since your rate still stands below what the home is worth, even after the recent decline, your tax burden increases.

We have a similar setup here, and there was much howling when people got larger tax bills than last year despite falling home values. Tax limitations cut both ways, though; it's important to be aware of what you'll actually face in both expanding and contracting real estate markets.

485 jcm  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:21:02pm

re: #480 SixDegrees

Links? I'm not finding any news articles on this, and I'd be interested in reading about the case directly.



Opps my bad AZ not CA.

For example, the prosecution claimed that Mr. Fish's choice of caliber (10mm) and ammunition type (hollow point) indicates a desire on Fish's part to kill.
486 ~Fianna  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:24:36pm

re: #463 Eowyn2

Mining is doing better than gambling in NV? I'd need to see some figures on that.
The Chillian Copper mines which were owned and operated by US companies were confiscated by the commies. Shirts were lost. I'd have to research how many copper mines (underground and pit) were closed between 1985 and 2000. Montana was hit hard. Employment and the tax base has never recovered though it has improved.
I am glad that the mining towns in NV are doing well but I would have to ask if they are actually doing better than they were 30 years ago. I'm pretty sure they were affected in the 80s as well.

Gambling is dying at this point. Here's the press release and a bunch of attachments from the tax board. Only 3 counties had an increase in taxable revenue in april, all of them are heavy industry counties. Clark and Washoe (home of Vegas and Reno respectively) had steep declines due to lack of tourism and high unemployment.

487 Wendya  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:55:01pm

re: #482 bunnymud

It just seems that everyone has over reacted and raced to conclusions without looking into the reality and legality of what happened.

Some people appear to be basing their opinions on either US law or what they think Honduran law should be vs what it is.

What gets me is the number of so-called world leaders who seem to support Zaleya's autocoup attempt. They will defend their powers, either real or imagined, at all costs.

488 Empire1  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 1:58:16pm

re: #430 avanti

Try some fuel injector/throttle body cleaner. Mr. Empire got some at Auto Zone today to use on my "new" Geo Metro, and swears it's better than any carburetor cleaner he's ever used. I can go find out the brand, if you're interested.

489 Empire1  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 2:00:11pm

re: #488 Empire1

Umm, correction -- it's Throttle Body and Air Intake cleaner, made by STP.

490 jayzee  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 5:22:55pm

re: #462 experiencedtraveller

NJ 2001 property tax: $5,500
NJ 2008 property tax: $13,400

The state of NJ is pimp slapping me...

The real beauty of it is that such a high tax burden state often pushes its residence into the AMT so not only do the real estate and income taxes get you, you can't even deduct them from your federal burden

491 Joshua Cohen  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 7:50:25pm

re: #384 Cosmic X

WOW! That I could witness this. I was not believing that the Israeli navy would do anything against it!

There it is - the Hope and Change! :)

492 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Jun 30, 2009 10:03:22pm

Why does the US take a stand on who gets to be President of Honduras, but not Iran?

493 Tatterdemalian  Wed, Jul 1, 2009 7:31:42am

re: #492 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

Why does the US take a stand on who gets to be President of Honduras, but not Iran?

Because Iran is, like, way over there. And Bush started that mess, anyhow. Obama needs to prove he's not Bush, at least to a bunch of people who will never believe a word he says anyhow.


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