Birther Queen Bee Rushes to McCain Opponent’s Defense

Weird • Views: 5,620

The craziest Birther of them all, Orly Taitz, has posted an attack on John McCain at her blog, raging about McCain’s advertisement playing the Birther card against J. D. Hayworth.

Taitz called the ad — which she misspelled as “add” throughout the post — “despicable” and “appalling.”

She went on to challenge the four-term senator to a televised debate on the president’s citizenship.

“Senator McCain owes me and my clients an apology and an opportunity to discuss this matter with him on the merits on the national TV, as his add was shown all over the national TV and all over the Internet, on a widely watched show, such as Sean Hannity[’s] show,” she wrote.

Amazing. In the McCain-Hayworth race we have a conspiracy-theorizing caveman running for high office against a war hero with a record of moderation, and the caveman has a good chance of being elected. Modern right wing politics in all its weird glory.

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384 comments
1 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:12:46am

Okay, does she really have any clients left? What morons are still employing this shrill bumpkin?

2 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:14:03am

McCain must be doing a happy dance right now. Getting Ms Crazy to campaign against him almost off-sets having his VP candidate for him.

3 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:14:33am

re: #1 Obdicut

Okay, does she really have any clients left? What morons are still employing this shrill bumpkin?

Are you kidding? She has as many clients right now as Arthur Andersen does!
/

4 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:15:11am

My head. It haz teh hurtz.

5 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:16:15am

I have selected a possible rotating title:

his add was shown all over the national TV
6 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:17:06am

Mongo have ally in race against McCain. Mongo like. Mongo think Orly Taitz good.

/

7 albusteve  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:18:48am

you owe me!

8 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:01am

You know if these people could just find a way to bottle and sell crazy the recession would be over....

9 cliffster  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:04am
Amazing. In the McCain-Hayworth race we have a conspiracy-theorizing caveman running for high office against a war hero with a record of moderation, and the caveman has a good chance of being elected. Modern right wing politics in all its weird glory.

Heh. Right.

10 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:17am

*munching popcorn*

This ought to be good... ;)

11 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:39am

Politico has the following tag on this post: OlryTaitz. Is that the equivalent of lizards using "Luap Nor"?

12 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:40am

re: #6 Gus 802

Mongo have ally in race against McCain. Mongo like. Mongo think Orly Taitz good.

/


Heh! :D

13 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:54am

re: #6 Gus 802

Mongo have ally in race against McCain. Mongo like. Mongo think Orly Taitz good.

/

Mongo only pawn in game of politics....

14 Ice-9  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:19:54am

I have to admit, she is sort of mavericky.

15 Mr.Boots  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:20:34am

Debate him? She just wants to get him in the same room with her so she can beat him to death with her eyelashes.

16 Stanghazi  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:20:45am

By going birther, both candidates get the voter's minds off of Abrahamoff & the Keating 5.

17 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:20:58am

re: #14 Ice-9

I have to admit, she is sort of mavericky.

And sort of major fail.

18 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:21:52am

Is it my imagination or do they seem to coming out of the political woodwork these days? The political nut cases I mean.

19 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:22:33am

Whirly Taitz: 'I never met a nativist panderer I didnt' like and Hayworth's no exception'

20 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:22:34am

re: #14 Ice-9

I have to admit, she is sort of mavericky.

Um, sort of??

21 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:23:03am

re: #18 Dragon_Lady

Is it my imagination or do they seem to coming out of the political woodwork these days? The political nut cases I mean.

Happens every Spring...

22 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:23:14am

re: #18 Dragon_Lady

Is it my imagination or do they seem to coming out of the political woodwork these days? The political nut cases I mean.

This is what happens if you ignore the termites at Versailles long enough, there's only so much castle (sanity) for them to chip away at....

23 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:23:33am

re: #17 Walter L. Newton

And sort of totally major fail.

There, fixed!

24 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:24:11am

re: #22 jamesfirecat

This is what happens if you ignore the termites at Versailles long enough, there's only so much castle (sanity) for them to chip away at...

Er... Versailles is not a castle.

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:24:13am

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

26 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:24:17am

re: #21 Thanos

Happens every Spring...

Kinda like new growth on a tree?...

27 dean_k  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:24:23am

I imagine this has been discussed ad nauseum, but does anyone think the bizzaro wingnut wing of the Republic Party has a reasonable chance of gaining real power, for example Palin eventually winning the presidency?

28 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:25:46am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

I knew there was something off about that one.

29 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:26:11am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

Nice work! You done good! Glad you caught him before he lit any more fires, we have enough burning embers around here as it is...

30 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:26:12am

BTW, how does Orly spell "addition"?

31 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:26:26am

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Er... Versailles is not a castle.


Okay there's only so much palace (sanity) for the termites to chip away from.

32 garhighway  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:26:55am

I think you are all being too hard on Orly. She might very well be the best combination dentist/lawyer/realtor in America.

33 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:27:01am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

Does that mean we're gonna get to see it later during a "we've got mail" post?

34 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:27:39am

re: #31 jamesfirecat

Okay there's only so much palace (sanity) for the termites to chip away from.

LOL! Love it!

35 Ice-9  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:27:59am

re: #27 dean_k
I think that ship has sailed for Palin. But she can still squeeze out a few more years of quasifame and make as much cash as she can in the process, cute lil' grifter that she is.

36 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:28:09am

Tea Party cranks support birther-Mongo-man J. D. Hayworth.

JD HAYWORTH IS WINNING POLL ON TEAPARTYDAY Website, Take a Look ...

It's time for John McCain to go… we fully endorse J.D. Hayworth ...

Liberty First PAC Endorses J.D. Hayworth » Campaign Trail ...

National Tea Party Group Endorses J.D. Hayworth Against John...

No surprise of course considering that one of the speakers at the Teabagger Convention was super-birther, Dominionist, Joseph Farah. Speaking of Farah, World Nut Daily has an article (if one could call anything at WND an article) regarding the McCain ad and it quotes Paulian neo-truther Eric Odom:

"Much to our surprise, there appears to be an overwhelming amount of support for Hayworth within the movement," writes Eric Odom. "A lot of activists are looking to oppose John McCain in some way, shape or form."

37 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:28:15am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

I knew that guy was familiar, think he's had a few "bunny" nicks

38 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:28:28am
39 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:29:28am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

That explain things. Bunny Thief was Jay Tea. Yep, there's a lot loose screws in that one.

40 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:29:55am

re: #22 jamesfirecat

This is what happens if you ignore the termites at Versailles long enough, there's only so much castle (sanity) for them to chip away at...

Walter is correct, Versailes is much more than a mere "castle"; its an entire pre-revolutionary pleasure complex and gardens for the purpose of the French king to keep the nobility at close bay:

Youtube Video
41 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:30:04am

re: #27 dean_k

I imagine this has been discussed ad nauseum, but does anyone think the bizzaro wingnut wing of the Republic Party has a reasonable chance of gaining real power, for example Palin eventually winning the presidency?

If the GOP is just in a cyclic low, the screamers are just a symptom. If the Repubs are in line to be replaced by a third party (Ojoe??), then the nuts will dominate them until they extinguish together. First case is most likely.

42 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:30:06am

re: #39 Gus 802

That explain things. Bunny Thief was Jay Tea. Yep, there's a lot loose screws in that one.

Righty tighty, lefty loosey!

43 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:30:17am

re: #38 MikeySDCA

Actually, it is called a castle in French Chateau de Versailles.

My mistake.

44 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:31:06am

re: #36 Gus 802

"Much to our surprise, there appears to be an overwhelming amount of support for Hayworth within the movement," writes Eric Odom. "A lot of activists are looking to oppose John McCain in some way, shape or form."

It's been a really long time since I can remember people voting for someone instead of against someone.

45 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:31:47am

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

It's been a really long time since I can remember people voting for someone instead of against someone.

I voted for McCain.

46 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32:07am

re: #38 MikeySDCA

Actually, it is called a castle in French Chateau de Versailles.

Good point, guess the French have a different definition of Castle than we do. IMHO, 7,000 rooms and thousands of acres of gardens don't exactly come to mind when picturing a "castle", but if thats what they call it, so be it.

47 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32:21am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

I had a feeling about BunnyThief. Didn't know he was an actual competitor (if self appointed) of yours.

48 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32:23am

iirc bunny and ornery used to tag team here a lot...

49 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32:24am

re: #2 darthstar

McCain must be doing a happy dance right now. Getting Ms Crazy to campaign against him almost off-sets having his VP candidate for him.


I wouldn't bet on that in Arizona, to be honest. The militia/tea party thing is a force to beware....especially in a heavily geriatric (sorry, but true) white state where the polity keeps voting in pseudo-fascistic hacks like Sherrif Joe. In Arizona, even conspiratorial madness from the 'Nirther Queen may actually be a threat.

50 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32:58am

re: #48 Thanos

iirc bunny and ornery used to tag team here a lot...

Ornery? Vaguely familiar.

51 Donna Ballard  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:32:59am

Time for me to go, gotta go out to the parents place for the day. Have a great day and a fabulous weekend Lizards! Keep Laughing everyone!

52 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:33:02am

re: #40 Surabaya Stew

Walter is correct, Versailes is much more than a mere "castle"; its an entire pre-revolutionary pleasure complex and gardens for the purpose of the French king to keep the nobility at close bay:


[Video]

Well, yes, no... Chateau does mean castle in French, but, it was a mere castle in 632 when first built, now it fits a much more boarder classification.

53 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:33:15am

re: #36 Gus 802

Tea Party cranks support birther-Mongo-man J. D. Hayworth.

Here's a shocking headline from WND:

McCain blasted in online poll
Just a handful of WND readers favor him over GOP challenger
54 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:33:23am

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

It's been a really long time since I can remember people voting for someone instead of against someone.

The "anyone but ___" vote. Usually I remember the old "lessor of two evils" from older times.

55 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:33:36am

re: #4 Cannadian Club Akbar

My head. It haz teh hurtz.

Image: dudewaitw.jpg

56 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:33:42am

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

Well, yes, no... Chateau does mean castle in French, but, it was a mere castle in 632 when first built, now it fits a much more boarder classification.

1632

57 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:33:55am

re: #45 MandyManners

I voted for McCain.

I voted against Obama. I was not a McCain fan although I do have incredible respect for him. In the primaries I voted for Thompson, who disappointed me.

58 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:34:02am

re: #50 MandyManners

Ornery? Vaguely familiar.

Was there an animal in the name?

59 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:34:05am

I'm thinking about getting a new TV. Does anyone know if Costco carries "The National Television"?

60 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:34:31am

re: #53 wrenchwench

Yeah, WND is known for their scientific polling data.

61 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:34:39am

She's a kook and so is the whole birther movement.

62 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:34:46am

re: #32 garhighway

I think you are all being too hard on Orly. She might very well be the best combination dentist/lawyer/realtor in America.


You left out the bit about also being an attention starved, past-her-prime Puma.

63 garhighway  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:35:11am

re: #62 celticdragon

That's gravy.

64 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:35:21am

Hey Ice-9, do you want to play with us or just troll?

65 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:35:56am

re: #62 celticdragon

You left out the bit about also being an attention starved, past-her-prime Puma.

Is that a crack about menopausal women? Do they somehow have less worth than those who are still able to bear babies?

66 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:35:59am

re: #49 celticdragon

I wouldn't bet on that in Arizona, to be honest. The militia/tea party thing is a force to beware...especially in a heavily geriatric (sorry, but true) white state where the polity keeps voting in pseudo-fascistic hacks like Sherrif Joe. In Arizona, even conspiratorial madness from the 'Nirther Queen may actually be a threat.

One of the fellows who does the best at following the nativist crowd in AZ is Stephen Lemmons, aka "The Feathered Bastard" while he sometimes waxes hyperbolic he's a great source for facts and history of Arpaio and others.
[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]

67 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:36:28am

re: #1 Obdicut

Okay, does she really have any clients left? What morons are still employing this shrill bumpkin?

Strangly Orly is still lead council on the Oompa Loompas v. Wonka class action lawsuit.

68 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:36:31am

re: #50 MandyManners

Ornery Elephant, also banned iirc

69 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:37:15am

Huge shark-filled aquarium in Dubai cracks open

An aquarium and a shopping centre in Dubai have been evacuated after water leaked from a massive tank holding hundreds of sharks.

Safety officials said the "small crack" appeared in the tank which holds 10 million litres of water and more than 33,000 underwater creatures.

The aquarium, opened in 2008, was promoted as being an "indoor ocean".

The mall owners said the leak appeared in a panel joint in the tank and was immediately fixed by engineers.

Teams carrying lifejackets were seen entering the mall.

70 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:37:57am

re: #49 celticdragon

I wouldn't bet on that in Arizona, to be honest. The militia/tea party thing is a force to beware...especially in a heavily geriatric (sorry, but true) white state where the polity keeps voting in pseudo-fascistic hacks like Sherrif Joe. In Arizona, even conspiratorial madness from the 'Nirther Queen may actually be a threat.

Oddly enough, yes, this could backfire on McCain. Especially in light of the frequent rare-air in the current political environment.

71 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:38:12am

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

Well, yes, no... Chateau does mean castle in French, but, it was a mere castle in 632 when first built, now it fits a much more boarder classification.

Thats right, I forget that these places have much longer histories than their existing buildings suggest. Just like how the foundations of the original castle were discovered when the Louvre was restored 20 years ago. Sometimes the names of places don't keep with with the reality....

72 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:38:20am

re: #69 NJDhockeyfan

Huge shark-filled aquarium in Dubai cracks open


It'd take a lot more than a life jacket to make me feel safe anywhere near a leaking tank filled with sharks....

73 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:39:19am

re: #68 Thanos

Ornery Elephant, also banned iirc

I knew it had an animal in the nic!

74 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:39:33am

To wit:

New Poll: Only 32% of Virginia Republicans Think Obama's a US Citizen

76 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:40:31am

Work to do. BBL

77 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:41:03am

So, has McCain accepted the challenge, or is he chicken?
/
Seriously, I almost feel bad for the guy. How do you respond to a challenge from Orly Taitz on the citizenship of the man who beat you in the presidential election? Especially when your VP even said it was "a fair question." I suppose he'll do what he always does...ignore it.

78 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:41:09am

re: #69 NJDhockeyfan

Huge shark-filled aquarium in Dubai cracks open

MOSSAD DUN IT.

80 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:41:33am

re: #66 Thanos

One of the fellows who does the best at following the nativist crowd in AZ is Stephen Lemmons, aka "The Feathered Bastard" while he sometimes waxes hyperbolic he's a great source for facts and history of Arpaio and others.
[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]

I have read him from time to time. I'm waiting for the federal inditement of Arpaio and his cronies for malfeasance and use of law enforcement to intimidate and corrupt the political process. The fact that he can get his buddy prosecuter to bring charges against virtually every political rival, city copuncil member who votes the wrong way, newspaper journalist critic and even judges who have annoyed him is something right out of Mugabe's vision of Zimbebwe.

And they keep voting for him. The over 65 crowd loves him to death. He is one of their own.

81 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:42:10am

re: #74 Gus 802

What the hell.

That's sad.

82 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:42:20am

re: #74 Gus 802

To wit:

New Poll: Only 32% of Virginia Republicans Think Obama's a US Citizen

Jeez, that's embarrassing.

83 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:42:43am

re: #79 Gus 802

And:

Pew Research: 39% of Republicans Want More Nirth

Meanwhile this reporters most recent poll suggests a good 45% of them want more cowbell!

84 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:43:13am

re: #74 Gus 802

To wit:

New Poll: Only 32% of Virginia Republicans Think Obama's a US Citizen


That does not surprise me at all.

I think the political anger parallels with pre-civil war era norms are becoming frightening.

85 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:43:49am

re: #79 Gus 802

And:

Pew Research: 39% of Republicans Want More Nirth


More cowbell!

86 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:44:37am

re: #85 celticdragon

More cowbell!

Maybe we can get Christopher Walken to straighten things out. /

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:44:54am

re: #66 Thanos

Why would someone put a pejorative in their internets name?

88 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:45:00am

re: #86 Gus 802

Maybe we can get Christopher Walken to straighten things out. /


It really does belong on SNL!

89 Slap  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:45:20am

re: #80 celticdragon

What's REALLY depressing is to read any random local paper's comments section whenever there's a story about prison overcrowding or illegal immigrant roundups. There's always at least one yutz (often more) who hold Herr Sheriff up as a hero.

The wingnut blogs aren't the only place to find this kind of delusion....

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:45:45am

re: #88 celticdragon

I'm from VA. Do not know a soul who thinks that way.

Guess I'm glad I don't hang with morons.

91 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:45:56am

re: #84 celticdragon

That does not surprise me at all.

I think the political anger parallels with pre-civil war era norms are becoming frightening.

Right, it's that there are large elements of the Republican base that not only see as Obama as wrong which is a legitimate point of view but as illegitimate. I've seen many a poll with large fractions of the Republican voters blaming ACORN for Obama's win.

92 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:46:56am

re: #87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mongo not know.... mongo just pawn in game of strife {political}

93 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:47:33am

Sorry to go Off-Topic but...

The Northern Palace of Familial and Filial Joy - our current residence - is sold, and our offer on the Southern Palace of Familial and Filial Joy - our future residence - is under contract to us.

This will cut our mortgage payment by 70% without affecting income, quality of life, or any of the rest of it.

Saddle up the cow, Ma! We're going to Seguin!

94 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:47:44am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

Right, it's that there are large elements of the Republican base that not only see as Obama as wrong which is a legitimate point of view but as illegitimate. I've seen many a poll with large fractions of the Republican voters blaming ACORN for Obama's win.

Link?

95 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:48:07am

re: #84 celticdragon

That does not surprise me at all.

I think the political anger parallels with pre-civil war era norms are becoming frightening.

Which includes the resurgence of neo-Confederates, the return of the JBS, etc. Then there was the seminar at CPAC which went as far as calling President Lincoln a tyrant, war criminal, etc.

96 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:48:10am

DOJ: Department Of Jihad?


War On Terror: The Justice Department employs nine lawyers previously involved in the defense of terrorist detainees. This is a colossal conflict of interest. Just whose side are they on?

...We still have not been told all the lawyers' names. Like the detainees they represented, presumably they have the right to remain silent. So much for transparency.

Lawyers in private practice are free to choose their clients and their reasons for defending them. But these lawyers are in the employ of the American people and have the task of prosecuting those who try to kill them. Some chose to defend enemies who are making war on America. We have a right to know who they are, who their clients were and why they defended them.

97 cliffster  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:48:28am

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm from VA. Do not know a soul who thinks that way.

Guess I'm glad I don't hang with morons.

Funny thing about those surveys.. strange how I can live right amongst, say, 73% of a population that thinks a certain way, and not know a single one of them.

99 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:49:04am

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm from VA. Do not know a soul who thinks that way.

Guess I'm glad I don't hang with morons.


Actually it is a fuction of people generally associating with like minded people, which produces something called false correlation. You tend to assume that the people you are with and their attitudes are representative of everybody in your area. A famous example is the female reporter who was aghast that Nixon had won the Presidency. She couldn't understand how he had won, since she didn't know anybody who had voted for him.

100 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:49:46am

Work beckons.

Later lizards!

101 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:49:57am

re: #94 Walter L. Newton

Link?

[Link: publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com...]
It's from November granted but you got twice as much polled self described Republicans saying they think ACORN stole the election as they thought he won legitimately.

102 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:50:02am

re: #93 Guanxi88

Sorry to go Off-Topic but...

The Northern Palace of Familial and Filial Joy - our current residence - is sold, and our offer on the Southern Palace of Familial and Filial Joy - our future residence - is under contract to us.

This will cut our mortgage payment by 70% without affecting income, quality of life, or any of the rest of it.

Saddle up the cow, Ma! We're going to Seguin!

Please tell me this isn't actual video of you celebrating:

Youtube Video
103 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:50:17am

re: #99 celticdragon

A famous example is the female reporter who was aghast that Nixon had won the Presidency. She couldn't understand how he had won, since she didn't know anybody who had voted for him.

I've always loved that story - it demonstrates the phenomenon perfectly.

104 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:50:47am

re: #95 Gus 802

Which includes the resurgence of neo-Confederates, the return of the JBS, etc. Then there was the seminar at CPAC which went as far as calling President Lincoln a tyrant, war criminal, etc.

Yep. The historical revisionism was utterly amazing. I never thought I would live to see "Republicans" (of a sort) actually turning on Lincoln...and in 2010!!

105 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:51:02am

re: #102 darthstar

Please tell me this isn't actual video of you celebrating:


[Video]

No - I'd never have my lava lamp appear in any video of me.

106 Buck  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:51:22am

I hate Birthers.

107 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:51:32am

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

Good thing I just got back from grocery shopping. I can grill the troll for lunch. I've got just enough time to produce Grilled BunnyThief on Sourdough.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:52:01am

re: #27 dean_k

I imagine this has been discussed ad nauseum, but does anyone think the bizzaro wingnut wing of the Republic Party has a reasonable chance of gaining real power, for example Palin eventually winning the presidency?

I'll tell you what I tell everyone on this point. It will not happen, because there is a special providence that watches over children, drunks, and the United States of America.

109 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:52:02am

re: #96 NJDhockeyfan

DOJ: Department Of Jihad?

Yes, and after that death to all defense attorneys who are these people who make a living by seeing to it that people aren't punished for their crimes? I say we start with that smarmy bastard Phoenix Wright!

110 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:52:09am

re: #97 cliffster

Or you don't know they respond that way on surveys.

111 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:52:36am

Do you think Eisenhower is the next Republican to be turned on by the ultra right? With Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln being criticized as of late I can think the Birchers old favorite target Ike the covert Communist would be next. I can just hear Glenn Beck crying because Eisenhower did not end the New Deal. Can imagine if this were the early 50's Beck being a big Robert Taft guy.

112 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:53:01am

re: #104 celticdragon

Yep. The historical revisionism was utterly amazing. I never thought I would live to see "Republicans" (of a sort) actually turning on Lincoln...and in 2010!!

Guess they're the party of Davis now...

113 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:53:02am

re: #106 Buck

I hate Birthers.

I pity them.

114 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:53:09am

re: #106 Buck

I hate Birthers.


Unfortunately, they have infected much of my extended family.

115 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:53:25am

re: #93 Guanxi88

Congratulations!

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:53:35am

re: #40 Surabaya Stew

Walter is correct, Versailes is much more than a mere "castle"; its an entire pre-revolutionary pleasure complex and gardens for the purpose of the French king to keep the nobility at close bay:

[Video]

And take up all their spare plotting time with a hectic schedule of hunting, dancing, card playing, dressing, undressing, and watching the king use the toilet.

117 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:54:00am

re: #111 HappyWarrior

Do you think Eisenhower is the next Republican to be turned on by the ultra right? With Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln being criticized as of late I can think the Birchers old favorite target Ike the covert Communist would be next. I can just hear Glenn Beck crying because Eisenhower did not end the New Deal. Can imagine if this were the early 50's Beck being a big Robert Taft guy.


Good point.

118 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:54:17am

By the way, here's a 2004 post at Wizbang by Jay Tea talking about doing exactly the same kind of trolling he was doing here under the name "bunnythief".

[Link: wizbangblog.com...]

He's a psycho and a serial troll.

119 Slap  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:54:28am

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

"These are my People! I love them!


PULL!!!!"

120 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:54:37am

re: #78 MandyManners

MOSSAD DUN IT.

Aha this one cracked me up. Thanks, needed that today.

121 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:54:37am

re: #104 celticdragon

Yep. The historical revisionism was utterly amazing. I never thought I would live to see "Republicans" (of a sort) actually turning on Lincoln...and in 2010!!

Most of which is coming from the Lew Rockwell and CATO institute sects. What's surprising too is that there seems to be a great deal of silence from the other factions regarding this bizarre criticism and revisionist view of Abraham Lincoln. One of the reasons for this silence I believe is that the Lincoln-bashing fits in with the state-rights and atavistic rhetoric.

122 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:54:43am

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

I recommend Neil Stephenson's System of The World trilogy for an imaginative but fairly accurate look at Versailles under Louis XIV.

123 Batman  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:55:05am

I don't know why crazy conspiracy theorists think people who call them out on their bs "owe" them any sort of response, much less a discussion on national tv on the merits of their long-destroyed theories. Oh so they can just get more exposure, that's why. That's also why they always choose a venue with a host that's entirely on their side and is known for screaming at folks they disagree with before cutting them off entirely.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:55:15am

re: #62 celticdragon

You left out the bit about also being an attention starved, past-her-prime Puma.

She's a Puma?

125 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:55:43am

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:55:48am

re: #102 darthstar

Please tell me this isn't actual video of you celebrating:

I kind of hope it was. Such reckless abandon!

I love people who sing in their cars like that.

That guy was loving life! "Ain't nuthin' wrong with that!"

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:55:52am

re: #69 NJDhockeyfan

Huge shark-filled aquarium in Dubai cracks open

Apparently, this happened during the Dubai Shopping Festival.

Yes, Dubai has a Shopping Festival.

128 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:56:32am

re: #118 Charles

Ah, "bunnythief." Now he makes sense.

129 Slap  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:56:42am

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

In the sense of a smelly old worn-out shoe, you betcha.

130 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:56:42am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

Hope he got Sqoshed... ("sic" on purpose)

131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:56:47am

re: #125 Charles

He sits by his computer...

and waits...

132 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:57:03am

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, this happened during the Dubai Shopping Festival.

Yes, Dubai has a Shopping Festival.

Power-shoppers, those folk. Some of the best luxury shopping in this or any other world can be had there.

133 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:57:10am

re: #118 Charles

By the way, here's a 2004 post at Wizbang by Jay Tea talking about doing exactly the same kind of trolling he was doing here under the name "bunnythief".

[Link: wizbangblog.com...]

He's a psycho and a serial troll.


Pompous, self important ass who likes to whine.

134 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:57:25am

re: #125 Charles

Wait! Only the 6th?

135 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:57:42am

re: #120 McSpiff

Aha this one cracked me up. Thanks, needed that today.

You're welcome.

136 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:57:52am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

He's probably been up for the past 336 hours waiting. I tell you, I'm starting to think that the sockpuppets and the stalkers should be added to the revised DSM IV.

137 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:04am

re: #121 Gus 802

Most of which is coming from the Lew Rockwell and CATO institute sects. What's surprising too is that there seems to be a great deal of silence from the other factions regarding this bizarre criticism and revisionist view of Abraham Lincoln. One of the reasons for this silence I believe is that the Lincoln-bashing fits in with the state-rights and atavistic rhetoric.


It is the same shit coming form our favorite uncle in the treehouse, Pat Buchanan.

138 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:07am

re: #120 McSpiff

I bet the Dubai police will now be checking the passports of the sharks to see if any are faked European ones. Then they can be added to the suspect list for the assassination of the Hamas official.

139 celticdragon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:20am

BBL.

140 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:32am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

Could it be Jay Tea?

141 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:51am

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I kind of hope it was. Such reckless abandon!

I love people who sing in their cars like that.

That guy was loving life! "Ain't nuthin' wrong with that!"

As a car singer married to another car singer (you should see my wife's face glow when Springsteen's version of "Blinded By The Light" comes on...it's always fun watching her sing along to that one), I agree. Reckless abandon is a wonderful thing.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:58:54am

re: #99 celticdragon

Actually it is a fuction of people generally associating with like minded people, which produces something called false correlation. You tend to assume that the people you are with and their attitudes are representative of everybody in your area. A famous example is the female reporter who was aghast that Nixon had won the Presidency. She couldn't understand how he had won, since she didn't know anybody who had voted for him.

I saw that happening here as the election approached. People (mostly the old crowd) simply could not process that Obama was clearly going to win the presidency.

143 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:59:06am

re: #137 celticdragon

It is the same shit coming form our favorite uncle in the treehouse, Pat Buchanan.

Right. With Vdare and Peter Brimelow in tow.

144 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:59:51am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

That is one persistent troll.

145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:00:00am

re: #69 NJDhockeyfan

Sounds like a "The Far Side" comic.

Two sharks, full to the gills, one says, "That was fantastic. No spikes, no venom, no barbs. Just soft pink flesh."

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:00:09am

re: #111 HappyWarrior

Do you think Eisenhower is the next Republican to be turned on by the ultra right? With Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln being criticized as of late I can think the Birchers old favorite target Ike the covert Communist would be next. I can just hear Glenn Beck crying because Eisenhower did not end the New Deal. Can imagine if this were the early 50's Beck being a big Robert Taft guy.

Eisenhower seems like a natural target. Which, of course, will then lead to disparaging his war record. I don't like the direction all this is going in, BTW, just in case someone hadn't noticed.

147 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:00:22am

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

I saw that happening here as the election approached. People (mostly the old crowd) simply could not process that Obama was clearly going to win the presidency.

I wonder, though, whether the wig-out would have been what it has been had HRC gotten the job. Somehow, this McCain voter suspects not.

148 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:01:12am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Eisenhower seems like a natural target. Which, of course, will then lead to disparaging his war record. I don't like the direction all this is going in, BTW, just in case someone hadn't noticed.

Yeah - the beef with Ike was a good sign that something went wrong somewhere. How the hell can you not like Ike?

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:01:26am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

Gotta say this for him--he sure is persistent.

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:02:13am

re: #141 darthstar

I know, heresy, but I prefer Manfred Mann's version.

Long play version, of course.

151 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:02:16am

re: #122 Obdicut

I recommend Neil Stephenson's System of The World trilogy for an imaginative but fairly accurate look at Versailles under Louis XIV.

His whole Baroque Cycle touches on Versailles off and on. "Quicksilver" "The Confusion" and "System of the World." All three books are great fictional history where you will learn more about the time period of around 1615 to 1725 than you probably ever could in a text book or school.

152 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:02:18am

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

And take up all their spare plotting time with a hectic schedule of hunting, dancing, card playing, dressing, undressing, and watching the king use the toilet.

Ah, so you know the dirty secret behind the toilet situation at Versailes? Until Louis XV's time, the only toilet was in Louis XIV's private chambers. (Talk about keeping the Throne to one's self!) So for years, the various nobility (with the exception of the "lucky" ladies chosen to be bedded by the Sun-King) relieved themselves on the floors of various palatial rooms set aside for the purpose! Versailes may have been the shittiest castle ever built....

153 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:02:43am

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

I realize it exists simply from the peer group I usually hang out with, and then interacting outside that general set in a few of the other activities I partake in.

You also see it in terms of where you live at the neighborhood, city, state, and region of the country level. Things that seem to be simple and obvious "truths" are anything but simply by displacing oneself 400-500 miles away.

154 S'latch  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:03:06am

I think Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, Cirroc, once ran for President on the platform of eliminating the capital gains tax.

155 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:03:40am

re: #118 Charles

By the way, here's a 2004 post at Wizbang by Jay Tea talking about doing exactly the same kind of trolling he was doing here under the name "bunnythief".

[Link: wizbangblog.com...]

He's a psycho and a serial troll.

Did you see the second comment there?

I was banned at DU also. I posted there under the nick 'blitz.' I lasted over 2 years and amassed over 2000 posts before they caught onto the fact that I shared none of their leftist idiocy. I wonder what took them so long? I never once espoused any liberal views or pretended to care about their limpwristed candidates for political office. MuddleoftheRoad and DrDon are close personal friends of mine. They both share my distaste for liberals and the Democratic party. They only posted at DU in order to mess with the silly little leftist punks. Muddle got axed last week and I fear DrDon is next. No biggie though. We'll always have Littlegreenfootballs.

jheka

He misused the word "always".

156 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:03:42am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Eisenhower seems like a natural target. Which, of course, will then lead to disparaging his war record. I don't like the direction all this is going in, BTW, just in case someone hadn't noticed.

Yeah I don't like the direction it's going in either. Lincoln was certainly no saint but the confederacy glorifying makes me ill. People need to remember that the states rights they were holding so dearly was the right to own another human being.

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:03:59am

re: #147 Guanxi88

I wonder, though, whether the wig-out would have been what it has been had HRC gotten the job. Somehow, this McCain voter suspects not.

Dunno. Hillary was much-hated here as well. It was also assumed that she was going to win at least the primary because of the sekrit Clinton powers. It would have been different, certainly.

158 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:04:11am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

He's a determined bastard, ain't he? I remember an attempt he made several weeks ago; he gave himself away by being able to "figure out" very quickly how to post videos. Fooled me for a while though, I must admit

159 webevintage  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:04:58am

re: #98 Killgore Trout

Republicans on unemployment...
GOP Rep. Dean Heller claims extending unemployment benefits is creating ‘hobos.’

Bunning Whines About Missing Basketball Game, Tells Dems ‘Tough Sh*t’ On Unemployment Benefits

As shitty as the Republicans are, I am more pissed off at the Senate Dems over this. They said they were going to make Bunning really filibuster and then they let him go home for the night. Today they adjourn and just walk away for the weekend.
weak bastards

and where is my video of that nut Bunning cursing in the Senate?

160 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:05:17am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno. Hillary was much-hated here as well. It was also assumed that she was going to win at least the primary because of the sekrit Clinton powers. It would have been different, certainly.

Thing about the Clintons was that, whatever else their failings might have been, they were familiar and known, and so, to an extent, less likely to become the objects of absurd theorizing (although there was that whole Mena thing...)/

161 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:05:41am

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

His whole Baroque Cycle touches on Versailles off and on. "Quicksilver" "The Confusion" and "System of the World." All three books are great fictional history where you will learn more about the time period of around 1615 to 1725 than you probably ever could in a text book or school.

Sounds like good stuff! Shall have to put them in my books-to-read queue.

162 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:08am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Eisenhower seems like a natural target. Which, of course, will then lead to disparaging his war record. I don't like the direction all this is going in, BTW, just in case someone hadn't noticed.

That may be coming soon especially considering the recent embracing of the John Birch Society where we find:

SNIP

Eisenhower Exposed

First, he discovered that Eisenhower was no military genius, contrary to the image so assiduously cultivated by the liberal media. Such capabilities as he possessed were more in keeping with those of a wily politician, not a military man. So mediocre were Ike's talents that only a few years before his appointment as Supreme Commander he had served as aide-de-camp, with the rank of major, to General Douglas MacArthur. However, what he lacked in military acumen he compensated for in shrewd political "savvy." Succeeding in capturing the attention of President Roosevelt, from that moment his future was assured. Eisenhower rose ever higher in the starry upper echelons of military rank while serving as the ever-faithful crony of Roosevelt and his Administration, the leftist ideology of which he apparently shared fully.

SNIP

Next, Mr. Welch considered Eisenhower's career after his return to civilian life. As president of Columbia University, Eisenhower took great pains to protect faculty members known for their communist sympathies or affiliation. He chose a known communist, Joseph Fels Barnes, to ghostwrite his book, Crusade in Europe. Finally, once elected to the Presidency, Eisenhower, as we noted, resisted those who wished a return to genuine American principles in government. He sabotaged anticommunists such as Senator Joseph McCarthy and continued the march towards bloated, centralized government at home and interventionism and internationalism abroad.

SNIP

163 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:18am

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Though with the caution that they're not strictly accurate, contain lots of anachronisms and impossibilities. But that's all overmastered by the ripping goodness of the yarn.

164 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:19am

re: #161 Surabaya Stew

Sounds like good stuff! Shall have to put them in my books-to-read queue.

Just a bit over 3000 total pages, small print, quick read.

165 Buck  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:19am

I have been banned (totally undeserved) from Kos.

Just registered a new ID and went on...

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:36am

re: #153 oaktree

I realize it exists simply from the peer group I usually hang out with, and then interacting outside that general set in a few of the other activities I partake in.

You also see it in terms of where you live at the neighborhood, city, state, and region of the country level. Things that seem to be simple and obvious "truths" are anything but simply by displacing oneself 400-500 miles away.

I've mentioned this before, but some years ago I was an Independence Day picnic at a friend's house, when one of the other guests suddenly realized that everyone present, except for her and her husband, was a Democrat. She was amazed. I can't quite describe her bafflement at the lot of us.

167 jamesfirecat  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:37am

re: #160 Guanxi88

Thing about the Clintons was that, whatever else their failings might have been, they were familiar and known, and so, to an extent, less likely to become the objects of absurd theorizing (although there was that whole Mena thing...)/

Don't forget the Vince Foster thing....

168 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:45am

re: #155 wrenchwench

He misused the word "always".

When you think serial trolling is fun, its time to seek professional help.

169 webevintage  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:06:59am

Why cows are not good house guests.
[Link: www.todaysthv.com...]

170 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:07:18am

re: #162 Gus 802

Forgot to link.

Remembering Robert Welch

171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:07:44am

re: #158 Surabaya Stew

Hi! It's my first post at LGF!

Youtube Video
How do you like my cool avatar! I'm so excited!

Yeah. riiight...

172 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:07:48am

re: #162 Gus 802

I'd like to add:

Often affiliated with left-wing causes, Barnes was identified as a Communist Party member by several witnesses during the Communist trials of the 1950s, but the charge was never proven.

173 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:07:54am

re: #167 jamesfirecat

Don't forget the Vince Foster thing...

Well, I mean, that was an obvious one, there. I don't fully subscribe to the official version, but I doubt very much he got capped, either.

174 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:08:02am

re: #162 Gus 802

Had a feeling this would happen. But what you're talking about with the Birchers is exactly why I feel Eisenhower will be next because of the Birchers having a resurgence.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:08:02am

re: #158 Surabaya Stew

He's a determined bastard, ain't he? I remember an attempt he made several weeks ago; he gave himself away by being able to "figure out" very quickly how to post videos. Fooled me for a while though, I must admit

I always kind of like him when he shows up. Then he asks Charles for tree-fitty, and I say 'Hey! That ain't no libertarian-leaning conservative, that's the Loch Ness Monster."

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:08:42am

re: #160 Guanxi88

Thing about the Clintons was that, whatever else their failings might have been, they were familiar and known, and so, to an extent, less likely to become the objects of absurd theorizing (although there was that whole Mena thing...)/

There were so many Clinton conspiracy theories out there already though, that they would have provided fuel for the fire.

177 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:08:56am

re: #125 Charles

In other troll news, I opened registration for a short time without mentioning it last night, and within minutes "YoungLibertarian92" tried to register for the 6th time.

Maybe he's a coder and wrote a script to send a text to his phone whenever "reg=open".

Or maybe he sits in front of his monitor all day and night and waits for an opening.

Anyone care to lay odds on number one?

178 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:08:59am

re: #174 HappyWarrior

Had a feeling this would happen. But what you're talking about with the Birchers is exactly why I feel Eisenhower will be next because of the Birchers having a resurgence.

Exactly.

179 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:09:21am

re: #171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi! It's my first post at LGF!

[Video] How do you like my cool avatar! I'm so excited! Yeah. riiight...

Auto-upding for that hamster.

180 garhighway  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:09:47am

re: #96 NJDhockeyfan

DOJ: Department Of Jihad?
War On Terror: The Justice Department employs nine lawyers previously involved in the defense of terrorist detainees. This is a colossal conflict of interest. Just whose side are they on?


...We still have not been told all the lawyers' names. Like the detainees they represented, presumably they have the right to remain silent. So much for transparency.

Lawyers in private practice are free to choose their clients and their reasons for defending them. But these lawyers are in the employ of the American people and have the task of prosecuting those who try to kill them. Some chose to defend enemies who are making war on America. We have a right to know who they are, who their clients were and why they defended them.

This sort of thing displays a lack of understanding of how our justice system works. Everyone is entitled to counsel. If we said that an attorney defending someone was therefore endorsing the defendant's belief or conduct, then there wouldn't be any defense lawyers. We even assigned defense counsel to the Nuremberg defendants. Did that mean that they were believers in the Nazi cause or were somehow disqualified from government legal work thereafter? Of course not.

181 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:09:51am

OT~ Here is a photo of the Sea World trainer who was killed. My deepest sympathies and prayers for her family.
Sea World has decided that the whale, Tilikum, will not be put down.[Link: www.wreg.com...]

182 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:10:23am

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

His whole Baroque Cycle touches on Versailles off and on. "Quicksilver" "The Confusion" and "System of the World." All three books are great fictional history where you will learn more about the time period of around 1615 to 1725 than you probably ever could in a text book or school.

I realize I shouldn't let the opinion of others sway mine, but these 3 books have been my favourite for years. It's really nice to see someone who's opinion of literature I respect come out so strongly in favour of them.

183 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:10:35am

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

Just a bit over 3000 total pages, small print, quick read.


Thats the same as re-reading the LOTR trilogy twice. Difficult, but doable. Of course, my "to-read" queue doesn't have a deadline, so it could be a while before I get to Mr. Stephenson's trilogy. Still sounds good though, thanks!

184 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:10:58am

re: #162 Gus 802

Yep. Watch for calls for the GOP to throw over on of its best presidents. I don't think it'll happen (I think it more likely the Birchers will be shown the door instead) but if it does happen I will no longer be a Republican,

185 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:15am

re: #163 Obdicut

Though with the caution that they're not strictly accurate, contain lots of anachronisms and impossibilities. But that's all overmastered by the ripping goodness of the yarn.

I was surprised at how much was true. In "System of the World" when Daniel was meeting at the thief's ken, and the "old man" on the floor, poxed and consumed, crawled over to the fireplace and threw in a handful of chemical, and the puff of smoke went up the chimney and the Kings men ran in, and we find out the "old man" was Sir Isaac Newton, I thought that was all fiction.

No, Newton did go undercover looking for counterfeiters, he did hang out in unsavory places like that...

There is even a whole book on the subject.

Newton and the Counterfeiter

186 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:22am

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

One of the main differences between Fark and here: On Fark people proudly announce that they're sponsoring (paying for TotalFark membership) for trolls.

187 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:23am

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

There were so many Clinton conspiracy theories out there already though, that they would have provided fuel for the fire.

It may be; truth is, folk are so wound up these days someone as - ultimately - boring as HRC might well have been made the spider in a web of political intrigue. I mean, the Clintons are known quantities - left(ish) when they can be, crooked (but who isn't) when the opportunity presents, and, in general, about exactly like the sort of people who'd be able to drag themselves from obscurity to power. It's funny that our own cursus honorum seems to require one to get a bit dirty, but such is life.

188 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:30am

re: #165 Buck

I have been banned (totally undeserved) from Kos.

Just registered a new ID and went on...

It takes a lot to get banned from Kos. The only people I've seen get banned there were conspiracy theorists, 9/11 truthers, blatant racists and rabid anti-semites.

189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:31am

re: #181 prairiefire

If they even thought of it, I'd go down there myself to protest.

I'd make a biiig fuckin' paper meche head too!

FREE WILLY!

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:38am

re: #181 prairiefire

OT~ Here is a photo of the Sea World trainer who was killed. My deepest sympathies and prayers for her family.
Sea World has decided that the whale, Tilikum, will not be put down.[Link: www.wreg.com...]

I'm relieved to hear that. It's a terrible tragedy, but it would only have been compounded by killing the orca.

191 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:11:45am

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

There were so many Clinton conspiracy theories out there already though, that they would have provided fuel for the fire.

I've been told on this forum, by a well respected by poster, that the clintons were involved in several murders.

192 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:12:05am

re: #171 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi! It's my first post at LGF!

[Video] How do you like my cool avatar! I'm so excited!

Yeah. riiight...

You remembered that too, cool! What a poseur he was....

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:13:16am

re: #191 McSpiff

I've been told on this forum, by a well respected by poster, that the clintons were involved in several murders.

Me too, McSpiff. Me too.

muttermuttermutter

194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:13:17am

re: #191 McSpiff

I've been told on this forum, by a well respected by poster, that the clintons were involved in several murders.

"The Clintons must've killed more men than Cecil B. Demille."

195 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:14:01am

re: #177 Cato the Elder

Maybe he's a coder and wrote a script to send a text to his phone whenever "reg=open".

Or maybe he sits in front of his monitor all day and night and waits for an opening.

Anyone care to lay odds on number one?

Number two is a distinct possibility, methinks. There's no telling what depths a (non-programer) loser will go to to make sure he can flounce in a "blaze of glory"!

196 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:14:46am

re: #160 Guanxi88

Thing about the Clintons was that, whatever else their failings might have been, they were familiar and known, and so, to an extent, less likely to become the objects of absurd theorizing (although there was that whole Mena thing...)/

and the Vince Foster nuts
... the FEMA re-education camps lie
... the New World Order freakout
... the pudwack militias
... the lesbian smear

It would have been different, but I doubt it would have been any better.

197 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:14:46am

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

The classic anecdote of this type of thing in my family was after we moved from eastern Indiana to northern New York. Due to some disagreement a local boy was trying to insult my sister and called her a "n*****r". He hadn't a clue what it meant, but just knew it was an insult word.

The demographics of that village in NY was about 99.5% white. (I think in the entire 10 years I lived there there was one, maybe two, black families residing in the village at any time.) The town in Indiana had a sizable black population and was integrated. At least in my age group there was nothing special noticed or commented on about the skin color of who you hung around with.

Insular small towns are odd things. My family had lived in 4-5 different locations and also travelled a lot. OTOH, one of my best friends up through high school had never been more than 50 miles away from there.

198 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:15:04am

The Greater Icepaw Range

199 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:15:05am

re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It would have been worth it to see the paper meche head.

200 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:15:11am

I think if Clinton were the nominee and elected the hatred would still be there but it would be different. There would be no birther movement but perhaps something else. The thing that kinda pisses me off is that as a liberal voter I was actually voting for who I wanted to become president with Obama. That's what those who don't understand why Obama will never get. You don't win many elections when your voters vote against your opponent and for you. I'll use an analogy from 2004 actually. Kerry didn't have too many people voting for him but rather against Bush. I know they're basically the same thing on the surface but Obama had an ethaisuastic backing that I'd never seen with any Democratic presidential candidate in my 21 years to that point.

201 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:15:34am

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

Yep. Watch for calls for the GOP to throw over on of its best presidents. I don't think it'll happen (I think it more likely the Birchers will be shown the door instead) but if it does happen I will no longer be a Republican,

Apparently the current trend is to throw a lot of previous Republican presidents under the bus if they had anything remotely resembling liberal policies in their administrations. Ronald Reagan and Calvin Coolidge are the only two 20th century Republican presidents that remain untainted by this new trend.

202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:16:14am

re: #195 Surabaya Stew

What real benefit do hacker's get. The joy of the hunt, I guess.

Crackers? different animal.

203 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:16:24am

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

Yes, there's lots of very good information in it. I just mean things like the way Lyon is presented, the founding of MIT happening centuries before it did, there's no actual stable isotope of gold other than the common one, etc. etc.

They're great books, but you can't assume any fact in them is necessarily true.

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:17:29am

re: #201 Gus 802

Apparently the current trend is to throw a lot of previous Republican presidents under the bus if they had anything remotely resembling liberal policies in their administrations. Ronald Reagan and Calvin Coolidge are the only two 20th century Republican presidents that remain untainted by this new trend.

Which is odd, because Reagan at least could certainly go down under their close inspection...but they like the idea of him.

205 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:17:33am

re: #203 Obdicut

Yes, there's lots of very good information in it. I just mean things like the way Lyon is presented, the founding of MIT happening centuries before it did, there's no actual stable isotope of gold other than the common one, etc. etc.

They're great books, but you can't assume any fact in them is necessarily true.

Historical fiction for sure, but great fun.

206 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:17:36am

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

When you think serial trolling is fun, its time to seek professional help.

It may not even be "fun" for them, many alcoholics and substance abusers don't have "fun" doing what they do. Uncontrollable compulsions or urges to do stuff like this may be a true addiction for some trolls out there. Really sad, actually.

207 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:17:44am

re: #201 Gus 802

Apparently the current trend is to throw a lot of previous Republican presidents under the bus if they had anything remotely resembling liberal policies in their administrations. Ronald Reagan and Calvin Coolidge are the only two 20th century Republican presidents that remain untainted by this new trend.

Who the hell doesn't love Coolidge?

208 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:18:17am

re: #201 Gus 802

Apparently the current trend is to throw a lot of previous Republican presidents under the bus if they had anything remotely resembling liberal policies in their administrations. Ronald Reagan and Calvin Coolidge are the only two 20th century Republican presidents that remain untainted by this new trend.

Reagan would be chased out of town by today's GOP for being too liberal. It's the myth of Reagan that protects him from getting the same treatment as the others.

209 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:18:30am

re: #188 darthstar

It takes a lot to get banned from Kos. The only people I've seen get banned there were conspiracy theorists, 9/11 truthers, blatant racists and rabid anti-semites.

They banned all of the people in charge there?

/

210 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:18:51am

What American can president can remain 100% conservative or 100% liberal past day one?

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:19:11am

re: #200 HappyWarrior

Clinton would have the Whitewatervincefosterinvestmentscampantsuitswomanhatinghe-mans (insert other stuff) club.

Oh, and she's a commie.

212 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:19:13am

re: #203 Obdicut

Yes, there's lots of very good information in it. I just mean things like the way Lyon is presented, the founding of MIT happening centuries before it did, there's no actual stable isotope of gold other than the common one, etc. etc.

They're great books, but you can't assume any fact in them is necessarily true.

I know... and what was most fun was not assuming something was fiction. Some of the actual facts came across stranger than fiction. His books certainly had me running back and forth to different references.

I have the "Newton and the Counterfeiter" book, haven't read it yet.

213 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:19:21am

re: #205 McSpiff

Wonderful fun, and the insight into the social changes brought about by the Enlightenment is brilliant. Also, Eliza is one of the most kick-ass female characters ever. And nobody gets just a happy ending, it's all rather more real than that.

Also, Yevgeny, Jeronimo, and the whole bunch of misfits rock.

214 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:20:00am

re: #203 Obdicut

Yes, there's lots of very good information in it. I just mean things like the way Lyon is presented, the founding of MIT happening centuries before it did, there's no actual stable isotope of gold other than the common one, etc. etc.

They're great books, but you can't assume any fact in them is necessarily true.

Wait... wait... wait... you mean there was never any real Solomon's Gold?

215 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:20:20am

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm relieved to hear that. It's a terrible tragedy, but it would only have been compounded by killing the orca.

It should be trained to survive in the wild, and then set free.

216 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:20:23am

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

Wait... wait... wait... you mean there was never any real Solomon's Gold?

Ask the folk over at Rocky Mountain about that one.

217 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:20:45am

re: #213 Obdicut

Wonderful fun, and the insight into the social changes brought about by the Enlightenment is brilliant. Also, Eliza is one of the most kick-ass female characters ever. And nobody gets just a happy ending, it's all rather more real than that.

Also, Yevgeny, Jeronimo, and the whole bunch of misfits rock.

High school me had a huge crush on Eliza. I honestly think it changed the type of women I chase after, for the better.

218 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:20:50am

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What real benefit do hacker's get. The joy of the hunt, I guess.

Crackers? different animal.

Sure could be it for some of them. Craving for recognition from their like-minded peers (from the stalker blog, for example) is also a possibility.

219 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:20:53am

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

Yeah, that's a very good point. And I think Stephenson has done great service in redeeming Hooke, who's legacy Newton worked so hard to diminish. I'd never heard of him before reading the book.

I think the compliments that Daniel gives him, about being the first man to really see a drop of water, etc., are spot-on.

220 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:21:35am

re: #203 Obdicut

It's also a great time period to get details of. The nation-state is starting to come into its own. You also see descriptions of the roots of banking, the modern corporation, and also great steps in scientific discovery and medicine. Along with a bunch of really wack stuff that will eventually get dropped. (But Stephenson plays some of it as being true.)

221 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:21:42am

Speaking of lunatic. Justin Raimondo at Anti-War dot com is applauding the CPAC "victory" of Ron Paul and goes on to defend the John Birch Society:

Ron Paul’s Victory: How Sweet It Is! Paul victory causes panic on neocon Right, Obama-ite Left

Ron Paul is to neocons what a silver bullet is to vampires, and, for me at least, a great deal of the joy accompanying Ron Paul’s CPAC victory has been anticipating the squeals of outrage, shock, and real pain coming from those circles. This may be my sadistic streak coming out, albeit not for the first time, but after years of hearing Paul and his supporters dismissed as "fringe" irrelevant sectarians with no real political prospects, you’ll forgive me if I indulge myself in a little gratuitous cruelty.

SNIP

Although the Society has been smeared as racist, as well as anti-Semitic, and called every name in the book, the truth is quite the opposite: Welch was an intransigent opponent of racism, and he regarded anti-Semites as sinister "neutralizers" who were objectively aligned with the Society’s enemies. (The raving lunatic Revilo P. Oliver, a professor of classics and a fanatical anti-Semite, was unceremoniously kicked off the JBS Council by Welch, and racists regularly received the same treatment.)

The Birchers’ real sin, in Buckley’s eyes, was to oppose the Warfare State as much as they opposed the Welfare State. They were the first to alert conservatives to the dangers of George Herbert Walker Bush’s "New World Order." And when Bush II moved to implement and complete his father’s hegemonist dream at gunpoint in Iraq, the Society strongly opposed the war – unlike various and sundry "liberals."

When liberals who know or care nothing about the history of the conservative movement trot out Buckley, you know they’re up to no good. They claim they want to "understand" what’s going on with the tea-party movement, and the identity crisis on the Right, but their "analysis" is just a lot of ideological ax-grinding. There’s no real attempt to come to grips with the issues raised by the Ron Paul movement, and the much wider wave of discontent that is now rolling across the country.

SNIP

Convergence and strange bedfellows.

222 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:22:10am

Orly should run for president.

Oh, wait...

223 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:22:21am

re: #207 Guanxi88

Who the hell doesn't love Coolidge?

Coolidge gets a pass because he did nothing controversial (other than mishandling the Great Mississippi Flood, but few people know about that). There's nothing to hit him on.

224 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:22:22am

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

I'm afraid, not, Walter. Not unless it wasn't actually gold-- which it wasn't given the uses to which it was put.

Like making the most sweet-ass anti-fouling plating a ship has ever seen.

225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:22:44am

re: #218 Surabaya Stew

Sure could be it for some of them. Craving for recognition from their like-minded peers (from the stalker blog, for example) is also a possibility.

Maybe he sees himself as a ... (from Wiki)

Hacktivist

A hacktivist is a hacker who utilizes technology to announce a social, ideological, religious, or political message.

226 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:22:58am

re: #213 Obdicut

Wonderful fun, and the insight into the social changes brought about by the Enlightenment is brilliant. Also, Eliza is one of the most kick-ass female characters ever. And nobody gets just a happy ending, it's all rather more real than that.

Also, Yevgeny, Jeronimo, and the whole bunch of misfits rock.

His satirical look at Jainism was hilarious. Even though it was an satirical, it made me look up Jainism and once again, there was more truth than fiction in the way he presented them.

227 garhighway  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:23:08am

re: #210 McSpiff

What American can president can remain 100% conservative or 100% liberal past day one?

Wait a minute. Are you seriously suggesting that a President has to engage in compromise and adaptation? That's a pretty radical thought.

228 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:23:16am

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

Coolidge gets a pass because he did nothing controversial (other than mishandling the Great Mississippi Flood, but few people know about that). There's nothing to hit him on.

I've said before - the model of Taoist leadership for these United States. Do nothing.

229 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:23:30am

re: #220 oaktree

He really gives the sense of how much shit was going down, that's for sure. I think it'll take a generation or two for the book to be treated as serious literature, but I'm confident it will.

230 Red Pencil  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:24:15am

re: #213 Obdicut

Wonderful fun, and the insight into the social changes brought about by the Enlightenment is brilliant.


No, it's the insight into the social changes ---and enlightenment --- brought about by the development of MONEY and COMMERCE that is brilliant.

See De Gex's speech in the 3rd Book, Stephenson delivers his actual message rather nicely by having his villain expound on the opposite.

231 HappyWarrior  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:24:22am

I thought I had heard Beck quoted as saying Reagan wasn't conservative enough for him on some things. Not sure who Beck likes but I know that the hardcore Paulians and Libertarians have expressed reverence for Grover Cleveland.

232 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:24:22am

re: #224 Obdicut

I'm afraid, not, Walter. Not unless it wasn't actually gold-- which it wasn't given the uses to which it was put.

Like making the most sweet-ass anti-fouling plating a ship has ever seen.

Brakes... you knew I was kidding about the Solomon's Gold, right? (do I really have to explain this).

233 webevintage  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:24:34am

re: #196 goddamnedfrank

and the Vince Foster nuts
... the FEMA re-education camps lie
... the New World Order freakout
... the pudwack militias
... the lesbian smear

It would have been different, but I doubt it would have been any better.

And one cannot forget the Mena, AR drug stuff and trying to tie President Clinton in with the "boys on the tracks" in Alexander, AR.

234 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:24:45am

re: #208 darthstar

Reagan would be chased out of town by today's GOP for being too liberal. It's the myth of Reagan that protects him from getting the same treatment as the others.

"And Mr. Reagan, during your time in Hollywood, how well did you know Rock Hudson?"

//Channeling Ryan Sobra

235 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:25:04am

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

Yeah, and that whole 'Maybe it was satanic ressurection, maybe it wasn't' trick played on Édouard de Gex was a wonderful fate for a true villain, as well as theologically interesting.

236 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:25:09am

re: #229 Obdicut

I might get around to giving it a re-read at some point. The three volumes are sitting in the bookcase about 10' away right now.

237 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:25:40am

Since we've steered firmly off the rails, any thoughts on Cryptonomicon?

238 darthstar  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:25:45am

Okay folks...time to pack my ski stuff and get ready to head up to the mountains. Expecting 15 inches of snow tonight, so tomorrow should be a powder day! First tracks guaranteed...I love ski patrol.

239 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:26:16am

re: #229 Obdicut

He really gives the sense of how much shit was going down, that's for sure. I think it'll take a generation or two for the book to be treated as serious literature, but I'm confident it will.

To make a finer point... shit had a lot to do with all three books, and even parts of plot arcs, for a matter of fact, excrement seems to appear in a lot of his books.

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:26:25am

re: #238 darthstar

Break a leg.

NO! WAIT!

241 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:26:29am

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Gotta say this for him--he sure is persistent.

And to what end? So he can flounce off again and get whacked by Stinky within minutes of posting? Again?

As someone above noted, that person just isn't quite right in the head.

242 ShaunP  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:26:33am

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

Which is odd, because Reagan at least could certainly go down under their close inspection...but they like the idea of him.

Glenn Beck on Reagan:

“Republicans sold the American people out,” Beck says. “I’ve always said I was a Reagan-style conservative. But I don’t think Reagan was a real Republican. He just maintained some shared values.”

Beck has since denied that he said that, but...

243 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:26:45am

re: #230 Red Pencil

I'm sorry, but the changes include far more than just money and commerce. It's also the end of the divine right of kings, the beginning of the equality of man. Dappa's story, the treatment of Daniel at the Star Chamber and his eventual victory, and the transmutation of the concept of 'power' are all just as important, if not more so, than the money and commerce stuff.

244 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:27:27am

re: #239 Walter L. Newton

Tiger turds in the right place can change history.

245 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:27:47am

Gold medalist in Teh Crazy Olympics

Pamela gets the silver

246 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:27:59am

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

Well, I didn't know. I thought there might be a real stable isotope of gold that they called Solomon's gold. I had to look it up.

247 Girth  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:28:16am

re: #242 ShaunP

Glenn Beck on Reagan:

“Republicans sold the American people out,” Beck says. “I’ve always said I was a Reagan-style conservative. But I don’t think Reagan was a real Republican. He just maintained some shared values.”

Beck has since denied that he said that, but...

Of course he would deny that he said it. To some of his listeners that would be like saying God is a woman.

248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:28:19am

re: #237 McSpiff

That a chapter of the "Necronomicon"?

249 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:28:26am

re: #241 lawhawk

And to what end? So he can flounce off again and get whacked by Stinky within minutes of posting? Again?

As someone above noted, that person just isn't quite right in the head.

Well,,, he is (self described) "YOUNG,,,",, Perhaps he'll grow out of it!

250 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:28:34am

re: #221 Gus 802

Speaking of lunatic. Justin Raimondo at Anti-War dot com is applauding the CPAC "victory" of Ron Paul and goes on to defend the John Birch Society:

Ron Paul’s Victory: How Sweet It Is! Paul victory causes panic on neocon Right, Obama-ite Left

Convergence and strange bedfellows.

The incredible Bad Craziness of that article makes me want to cry. Anyone got any good news to share?

251 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:28:43am

re: #245 Alouette

Gold medalist in Teh Crazy Olympics

Pamela gets the silver

Cindy Sheehan gets the bronze?

252 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:29:13am

re: #247 Girth

Of course he would deny that he said it. To some of his listeners that would be like saying God is a woman.

Are you saying She isn't?

253 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:29:15am

re: #237 McSpiff

Sure. Good read, but jumps around too much with not all the plot lines being interesting. Five pages on how a character eats Capt Crunch cereal... typical Stephenson riff that I think some folk love and others hate.

I like Stephenson a great deal, but none of his books have quite been the "full deal" yet. I think he has the capability for a true masterpiece book where it all comes together in the right proportions.

And, like Bujold, Banks, and a few others, I think his lesser works are still better than 90% of the other material on the market.

* - And it's about time a political thread got hi-jacked into an open discussion since open threads go all political all-to-often.

254 Ericus58  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:29:40am

Girls' team puts religion first, forfeits championship game

[Link: www.komonews.com...]

"The Jewish school is strictly orthodox and Thursday was fasting day before Purim. The girls can't eat or drink until after sunset. And playing a game without hydration could put players at risk.

"Although we really do wish we could play further, we're really just happy we got the chance to play here," said student Julie Owen.

The school asked the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association to move the tournament game to a spot where they could play after sunset, but the request was denied.

"We're just going to keep our fast day today, and we'll be back next year," Owen said.

And the girls showed their good sportsmanship by putting on their uniform and congratulating their opponents.

"We do want to show respect to team, league and anyone who gets to play here," said Owen.

Northwest Yeshiva became the first school in Washington to forfeit out of a state tournament game. It's not known whether the WIAA board will consider imposing any sanctions against the team for forfeiting."

Kudos to them for being good sports. But what the Hell is the WIAA not coming out immediately and squashing any talk about sanctions?

255 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:29:41am

re: #251 Mad Al-Jaffee

Cindy Sheehan gets the bronze?

These days, it's Michelle B.

256 Gus  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:30:25am

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

The incredible Bad Craziness of that article makes me want to cry. Anyone got any good news to share?

Well, there's the Biblioburro in Columbia. It's like a bookmobile but with a donkey.

257 Girth  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:30:30am

re: #252 Surabaya Stew

Are you saying She isn't?

No, I just wonder if She exists...

258 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:30:34am

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

One of my many friends with cancer is feeling well enough to have lunch with me, having completed her chemo. Prognosis is pretty good. I was worried I'd never see her again.

So that makes me happy, even if it's against a sad background.

259 Red Pencil  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:30:35am

re: #243 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but the changes include far more than just money and commerce. It's also the end of the divine right of kings, the beginning of the equality of man.

Of course it does. But the prime mover of these changes was in fact money and commerce (and perhaps religious diversity too, come to that). Re read de Gex's speech on how only evil MONEY could have elevated a lowly wench like Eliza to near royal status, and it was as a symbol of this new "wicked" power that she must be killed.

260 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:30:55am

re: #248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That a chapter of the "Necronomicon"?

Na, another (imho) great Stephenson novel.

261 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:31:14am

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe he sees himself as a ... (from Wiki)

Hacktivist

A hacktivist is a hacker who utilizes technology to announce a social, ideological, religious, or political message.

As what he sees himself as, perhaps. As hackers (and presumably hacktivists) can be good people with a productive role in society, the title is too good for him.

262 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:31:15am

re: #243 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but the changes include far more than just money and commerce. It's also the end of the divine right of kings, the beginning of the equality of man. Dappa's story, the treatment of Daniel at the Star Chamber and his eventual victory, and the transmutation of the concept of 'power' are all just as important, if not more so, than the money and commerce stuff.

I would guide you to a Wired interview with Stephenson, he attributes most of his Baroque cycle plot arc to money and commerce.

I suspect the author know what he is talking about.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

263 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:31:56am

Who was driving this ship? Captain Hazelwood? 3 crewmembers died when a luxury ship struck the pier in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt. The ship is listing to one side and had a gash in its side.

They're blaming bad weather conditions.

264 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:31:56am

re: #254 Ericus58

And why would an Athletic Association not make an accommodation.

If they were Muslim girls... how loud would the screaming be?

265 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:32:05am

re: #258 Obdicut

One of my many friends with cancer is feeling well enough to have lunch with me, having completed her chemo. Prognosis is pretty good. I was worried I'd never see her again.

So that makes me happy, even if it's against a sad background.

Another day is always cause to celebrate, even if I don't always remember it.

266 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:32:19am

re: #259 Red Pencil

I disagree. Sorry. The main change is the perception of man's station in the universe. That includes class freedom and new ways commerce are put. But I think you're focusing on an outcome and not a prime mover.

267 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:32:43am

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

I would guide you to a Wired interview with Stephenson, he attributes most of his Baroque cycle plot arc to money and commerce.

I suspect the author know what he is talking about.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

I believe he also discusses it in some additional material included with the novels, I'm specifically thinking of the third novel, softcover edition. Should I pull it off the shelf and check?

268 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:33:15am

re: #254 Ericus58

That's crazy! They could have moved the game back (or forward) one day for them to play. Don't think thats an unreasonable accommodation.

269 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:33:17am

re: #263 lawhawk

They didn't blame an iceberg?

270 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:33:30am

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

That's like saying Cryptonomicon is mainly about Cryptology, though. Cryptology is an outcome, not a source.

271 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:33:31am

re: #257 Girth

No, I just wonder if She exists...

Don't let Her hear you talk like that! You KNOW how She gets.

272 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:34:20am

re: #267 McSpiff

This might well be "Day the World Changed" material. A bunch of factors came together and there was a new synthesis on how the world could (and would) work. Whether any given factor or two should get primary consideration is what would then be debated.

273 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:34:20am

re: #263 lawhawk

Who was driving this ship? Captain Hazelwood? 3 crewmembers died when a luxury ship struck the pier in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt. The ship is listing to one side and had a gash in its side.

They're blaming bad weather GLOBAL WARMING conditions.

oh ,, wait ,,, weather isn't climate ,,, or is it climate isn't weather!!

//

274 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:34:23am

re: #266 Obdicut

I disagree. Sorry. The main change is the perception of man's station in the universe. That includes class freedom and new ways commerce are put. But I think you're focusing on an outcome and not a prime mover.

"In The Baroque Cycle we have got confusion of a few different sorts: Not only alchemists melting things together, but also pandemonium in the markets, a re-coinage in England (which means gathering together and melting all the old coins) and the confusion of a war between France and her enemies."

[Link: www.wired.com...]

Read the article, one of his main plat arcs is money and commerce and how it effected all the other things you mention. The movement of money and commerce is a reoccurring theme and major plat arc in most of his novels.

275 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:35:05am

re: #257 Girth

No, I just wonder if She exists...

A fair question, He said!

276 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:35:16am

re: #268 Surabaya Stew

'I told those fucks down at the league office a thousand times that I don't roll on Shabbos!"

-Walter Sobchak

277 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:35:47am

re: #270 Obdicut

That's like saying Cryptonomicon is mainly about Cryptology, though. Cryptology is an outcome, not a source.

Cryptonomicon is mainly about the commerce of moving information and money. Once again, his two favorite themes.

Look... if you don't want to agree with the author, don't.

You'll argue with a rock won't you?

278 Girth  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:36:22am

re: #276 Mad Al-Jaffee

'I told those fucks down at the league office a thousand times that I don't roll on Shabbos!"

-Walter Sobchak

HEY! What's with this bush-league psych-out shit?!

279 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:36:41am

re: #276 Mad Al-Jaffee

'I told those fucks down at the league office a thousand times that I don't roll on Shabbos!"

-Walter Sobchak

Shomer fucking shabbos.

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:37:32am

old joke...

Pope walks into a room of Bishops and Cardinals. Says, "I got some good news; I got some bad news. The good news? God just called me on the phone. The bad news? She called from Salt Lake City."

281 Red Pencil  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:37:37am

Obdicut, as Stephenson points out, the commercial revolution between the Renaissance and the 17th century predates the Enlightenment of the 18th. You may disagree with Stephenson (and me) that increased social & even geographical mobility brought about by commerce was a CAUSE of the enlightenment but, assuming we are on a stable timeline, it CAN'T be an outcome.

282 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:37:40am

re: #278 Girth

HEY! What's with this bush-league psych-out shit?!

Walter Sobchak: Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax...
[shouting]
Walter Sobchak: You're goddamn right I'm living in the fucking past!

283 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:37:49am

re: #267 McSpiff

I believe he also discusses it in some additional material included with the novels, I'm specifically thinking of the third novel, softcover edition. Should I pull it off the shelf and check?

Yes he does. And if you read any interviews with him, he constantly stresses how commerce (including the commerce of information) and money is the prime movers behind most of history.

Even if he is wrong, or he's being to simplistic, you can't change what the author has admitted to.

Why would anyone argue with the author?

284 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:38:12am

re: #274 Walter L. Newton

I remember it really giving me an insight at a fairly early age to the idea that money is a means to an ends, and not simply an ends.

And like you say, the idea of information flow being equally important. The idea that these two flowing 'forces' could be used harnessed to do useful work.

Sorry if this all seems horrible obvious, but I started with cryptonomicon at around 15, so just about everything was a major revelation for me... Still is, especially around here.

285 Buck  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:38:18am

re: #188 darthstar

It takes a lot to get banned from Kos. The only people I've seen get banned there were conspiracy theorists, 9/11 truthers, blatant racists and rabid anti-semites.

Well, I am none of those.

They don't tell you why you got banned. You just show up one day, and your password and ID doesn't work.

286 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:39:18am

re: #284 McSpiff

Have you been working back through his earlier material? _Snow Crash_, _The Diamond Age_, etc.?

287 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:39:21am

re: #264 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And why would an Athletic Association not make an accommodation.

If they were Muslim girls... how loud would the screaming be?

Ramadan is somewhat flexible in that fasting is not required in the youth or under special circumstances. On the flip side, the dates of the Islamic months change every lunar year (and even those are open to interpretation), so accommodating annual events around Ramadan will be tricky. I imagine it will come up though more and more in the near future

288 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:39:49am

re: #285 Buck

Well, I am none of those.

They don't tell you why you got banned. You just show up one day, and your password and ID doesn't work.

If someone can't figure out why tehy get banned from somewhere , ANYWHERE , they have more problems than the "banning"!

289 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:39:59am

FWIW, scholars think that the cultivation of the coffee bean and coffee houses led to the elevation of the common man. Instead of drinking their beer for breakfast and then trying to farm, they were gathering in coffee houses and talking about how things sucked for them, actually. And maybe they would do something about it.

290 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:40:25am

re: #284 McSpiff

I remember it really giving me an insight at a fairly early age to the idea that money is a means to an ends, and not simply an ends.

And like you say, the idea of information flow being equally important. The idea that these two flowing 'forces' could be used harnessed to do useful work.

Sorry if this all seems horrible obvious, but I started with cryptonomicon at around 15, so just about everything was a major revelation for me... Still is, especially around here.

Evidently, it's not horribly obvious, since Obdicut wants to argue with the authors own words about the major plot points of his own books.

There is not a single Stephenson book that I have read yet that doesn't feature the idea that commerce and money is the prime movers.

291 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:40:57am

re: #286 oaktree

Have you been working back through his earlier material? _Snow Crash_, _The Diamond Age_, etc.?

Just read snow crash over the winter break. Loved it loved it loved it.

292 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:40:57am

re: #283 Walter L. Newton

Yes he does. And if you read any interviews with him, he constantly stresses how commerce (including the commerce of information) and money is the prime movers behind most of history.

Even if he is wrong, or he's being to simplistic, you can't change what the author has admitted to.

Why would anyone argue with the author?

Time for me to go. BBT

293 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:41:03am

re: #289 prairiefire

FWIW, scholars think that the cultivation of the coffee bean and coffee houses led to the elevation of the common man. Instead of drinking their beer for breakfast and then trying to farm, they were gathering in coffee houses and talking about how things sucked for them, actually. And maybe they would do something about it.

I've seen loads of StarBucks patrons that do the same thing ,,,,,,

294 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:41:15am

re: #274 Walter L. Newton

Yes. It's a reoccurring theme. I'm not debating that at all. But money and commerce have existed forever; what changed was the way that they were used, and that changed because of ideas larger than just commerce and money.

I'm not in the least bit objecting to money and commerce being a major theme, but they don't drive change; they're the agent and the exposition of change.

Both the Land Bank and the Bank of England were about money and commerce. One of them failed, and the other succeeded; because, as Daniel points out, one of them understood the change that had occurred in the world-- the new sources of power that were coming online-- and the other did not.

re: #277 Walter L. Newton


You'll argue with a rock won't you?

Why do you nearly always have to stoop to insults, Walter? It's kind of odd.

295 Sinistershade  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:41:16am

re: #93 Guanxi88

Saddle up the cow, Ma! We're going to Seguin!

We in Central Texas will be most pleased to have ya'll!

296 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:41:43am

re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

old joke...

Pope walks into a room of Bishops and Cardinals. Says, "I got some good news; I got some bad news. The good news? God just called me on the phone. The bad news? She called from Salt Lake City."

Could that joke be the inspiration for this?

What really tipped the scales against me, however, was the fact that I wasn't Mormon. Turns out, the Mormons are God's chosen people. Land o'Goshen, how was I supposed to know that?

297 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:42:35am

re: #295 Sinistershade

We in Central Texas will be most pleased to have ya'll!

I'm in Austin now, and couldn't be more pleased to be moving to Texas.

(A little Lone Star humor for y'all.)

298 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:43:01am

re: #286 oaktree

Have you been working back through his earlier material? _Snow Crash_, _The Diamond Age_, etc.?

I'm just finishing up on Diamond Age... and once again, it's the movement of goods and information, commerce, that is the underlying theme... "The Feed," Dr X. and his ability to deliver information and good "off the Feed" and the different economic zones set up in the future that controls commerce.

I've read 5 of his books so far, and commerce and money underlies all his plots.

299 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:43:31am

re: #281 Red Pencil

I'm more talking about, as I said above, the difference between the competing Land Bank and Bank of England-- likewise, the division between Tories and Whigs-- and what their allegiances to different philosophies of commerce and money show about the philosophies in total.

And then there's Jack.

300 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:43:46am

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Evidently, it's not horribly obvious, since Obdicut wants to argue with the authors own words about the major plot points of his own books.

There is not a single Stephenson book that I have read yet that doesn't feature the idea that commerce and money is the prime movers.

I'd also tie into that, with the idea of information as an intangible but none the less extremely valuable commodity being a recurring theme. Which leads to ideas of information theory, transmission, encryption, storage, etc.

301 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:43:52am

re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

old joke...

Pope walks into a room of Bishops and Cardinals. Says, "I got some good news; I got some bad news. The good news? God just called me on the phone. The bad news? She called from Salt Lake City."

Followed up by this gem:

Well, my petition for admittance into Heaven was finally approved by the Lord God on High Him-self. For over a century, I was not allowed to enter the pearly gates because I was not Mormon. Don't let their polygamous, westward-migrating, hand-cart-pulling ways fool you: They are the chosen people.

302 Ericus58  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:44:12am

re: #264 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And why would an Athletic Association not make an accommodation.

If they were Muslim girls... how loud would the screaming be?

There are issue's that the article and I don't have access to; has there been accommodations made in the past for previous championship games (this isn't some regular game), what's the criteria for allowing a modification to the scheduled date/time, why was it denied?

FBV, why are you interjecting with the Muslim slant?

My main beef with this is the idea of possible sanctions against the girls for forfeiting the game - that is just ludicrous.

303 Buck  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:45:01am

re: #288 sattv4u2

If someone can't figure out why tehy get banned from somewhere , ANYWHERE , they have more problems than the "banning"!

What does that mean?

Anyone can read my posts (pre banning) on DailyKos. My ID was myfreepress

A simple google search of the site brings up every one of my posts...

I was on the other side of may IP discussions, defending Israel. But that should not be a banning offence.

304 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:45:08am

re: #294 Obdicut

Yes. It's a reoccurring theme. I'm not debating that at all. But money and commerce have existed forever; what changed was the way that they were used, and that changed because of ideas larger than just commerce and money.

I'm not in the least bit objecting to money and commerce being a major theme, but they don't drive change; they're the agent and the exposition of change.

Both the Land Bank and the Bank of England were about money and commerce. One of them failed, and the other succeeded; because, as Daniel points out, one of them understood the change that had occurred in the world-- the new sources of power that were coming online-- and the other did not.

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

Why do you nearly always have to stoop to insults, Walter? It's kind of odd.

1) It's his main theme, it drives most of the other plat arcs.

2) Because you will argue with a rock.

3) Give it up, you do your fair share of insulting people here. Mr. Innocent.

305 JeffM70  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:45:59am

When you look at McCain's record, it's moderate if you're looking at it from the far right, but it really isn't all that moderate when you look at it from the center. And now he's just a bitter, raving old man. I don't envy the choice Arizona Republicans have to make.

306 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:46:20am

re: #294 Obdicut

Why do you nearly always have to stoop to insults, Walter? It's kind of odd

Gun//Bullet
Pot// Kettle

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:46:44am

re: #302 Ericus58

Mainstream Protestant kids don't have the same kind of restrictions, so I couldn't use them... Athiest kids? Well, not a problem.

I was trying to think of a religion with strict "time of day" "day of the month" "special holiday"...

Couldn't come up with another one.

308 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:46:54am

re: #300 McSpiff

I'd also tie into that, with the idea of information as an intangible but none the less extremely valuable commodity being a recurring theme. Which leads to ideas of information theory, transmission, encryption, storage, etc.

Sort of interesting how something so intangible and fleeting can drive people to do the most bizarre things...

309 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:46:58am

re: #305 JeffM70

When you look at McCain's record, it's moderate if you're looking at it from the far right, but it really isn't all that moderate when you look at it from the center. And now he's just a bitter, raving old man. I don't envy the choice Arizona Republicans have to make.

ummm,, HUH !?!?!

310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:47:39am

re: #302 Ericus58

My beef is they won't move the games to a time when the girls could play. Muslim girls too.

311 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:47:52am

re: #299 Obdicut

I'm more talking about, as I said above, the difference between the competing Land Bank and Bank of England-- likewise, the division between Tories and Whigs-- and what their allegiances to different philosophies of commerce and money show about the philosophies in total.

And then there's Jack.

Who learns the concepts of commerce and money from Eliza and his travels and adventures and in the third book plans to disrupt the known order of things by trying to destroy the money supply.

Back to money and commerce.

Why is it you can't accept Stephenson's explanation as to what his stories are primarily about?

312 Obdicut  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:48:33am

re: #304 Walter L. Newton

1) It's his main theme, it drives most of the other plat arcs.

2) Because you will argue with a rock.

3) Give it up, you do your fair share of insulting people here. Mr. Innocent.

I agree that commerce is a main theme in many of his books. I think it's not true to say it's the main theme. I think that information and the attributes of cultures are the main themes, which include how those cultures-- and how information-- relates to commerce and money. This theory has the benefit of including his book Anathem, which I do not think yours does.

Since you're getting nasty, I'm going to stop talking to you now. I'm used to being able to have discussions about the themes of books without the person I'm talking to descending to insults, and I don't think there's anything to be gained from doing so.

313 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:50:52am

re: #312 Obdicut

and I don't think there's anything to be gained from doing so.

Physician ,, heal thyself!

(jus' sayin')

314 Ericus58  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:51:19am

re: #310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My beef is they won't move the games to a time when the girls could play. Muslim girls too.

We are in full agreement.

315 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:51:21am

re: #312 Obdicut

I think Walter's just a tad confused, as I am, of why you'd go so far as to disagree to with the author of a novel as to what it's main theme is. You might be able to argue that its not the most important theme to you, but its awfully presumptuous to say you know better than the author.

Sorry for putting any words in your mouth Walter.

316 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:51:40am

Hmm, quick look on Amazon indicates some newer stuff I haven't read yet. Time to make another bookstore visit.

317 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:51:44am

re: #312 Obdicut

I agree that commerce is a main theme in many of his books. I think it's not true to say it's the main theme. I think that information and the attributes of cultures are the main themes, which include how those cultures-- and how information-- relates to commerce and money. This theory has the benefit of including his book Anathem, which I do not think yours does.

Since you're getting nasty, I'm going to stop talking to you now. I'm used to being able to have discussions about the themes of books without the person I'm talking to descending to insults, and I don't think there's anything to be gained from doing so.

Remember that in the future.

318 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:52:11am

re: #311 Walter L. Newton

re: #312 Obdicut

Gentlemen, gentlemen! How can you quarrel so when your somteim-buddy JUST SOLD HIS F*CKING HOUSE!

Everybody grab a Shiner and help yourself to the chips and such.

319 Red Pencil  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:52:46am

re: #311 Walter L. Newton

[Jack] learns the concepts of commerce and money from Eliza and his travels and adventures and in the third book plans to disrupt the known order of things by trying to destroy the money supply.

Jack is trying to destroy Britain's "new" money at the behest of the "old" land based wealth/aristocratic order, aka Louis XIV, because Louis is blackmailing him. I don't know how Stephenson could be much clearer here.

320 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:53:03am

re: #318 Guanxi88

Congrats.

(gets a beer)

321 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:53:26am

re: #318 Guanxi88

Cograts, Guanxi88.

322 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:53:30am

re: #320 oaktree

Congrats.

(gets a beer)

Throw your empties over in the blue bin there. Recycling, you know.

323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:54:26am

re: #318 Guanxi88

You should've moved to Roanoke, VA.

Let the jealousy begin...

Car and house insurance premium? 2300 per year.

THAT'S FOUR CARS!

324 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:54:46am

re: #322 Guanxi88

Yep. Looks like I got myself a Goose Island 312 Urban Wheat...

325 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:55:04am

I've got "The Wild, Wild West", season 2 on DVD for the kids to watch tonight for movie night. I'm wondering if my daughter will crush on James, or (like me), Artemis.

326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:55:14am

re: #318 Guanxi88

You don't have to be here to be my buddy.

You're my buddy all the time.

327 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:55:19am

re: #315 McSpiff

I think Walter's just a tad confused, as I am, of why you'd go so far as to disagree to with the author of a novel as to what it's main theme is. You might be able to argue that its not the most important theme to you, but its awfully presumptuous to say you know better than the author.

Sorry for putting any words in your mouth Walter.

No, that it's exactly. And Obdicut never once indicated if he read the interview I linked to, or what he thought about what Stephenson had to say about his own works.

Stephenson has been a publicly known author since about 1995 (although had publish before that), and there is a dearth of interviews and information available on his writing style, his favorite themes and so on.

This is not a mystery... at least not to Stephenson fans.

328 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:56:04am

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You should've moved to Roanoke, VA.

Let the jealousy begin...

Car and house insurance premium? 2300 per year.

THAT'S FOUR CARS!

Let's see: Mortgage and taxes on new house: $315/month
Mortgage and taxes on old house: $1500/month

Hell, every body grab two beers and let's get some burgers and pizza in here.

329 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:56:06am

re: #325 prairiefire

Everyone loves to proto-geek.

330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:56:23am

re: #325 prairiefire

How cool...

331 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:57:10am

re: #93 Guanxi88

Sorry to go Off-Topic but...

The Northern Palace of Familial and Filial Joy - our current residence - is sold, and our offer on the Southern Palace of Familial and Filial Joy - our future residence - is under contract to us.

This will cut our mortgage payment by 70% without affecting income, quality of life, or any of the rest of it.

Saddle up the cow, Ma! We're going to Seguin!

Congratulations! As the resident financial bore, let me encourage you to keep that former mortgage payment in your budget, and sock it away someplace lucrative. S&P Index funds for the kids, college fund, your own beltsander racing league, whathaveyou...

332 JeffM70  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:57:21am

re: #309 sattv4u2

McCain is a bitter and angry old man.

333 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:57:55am

re: #323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You should've moved to Roanoke, VA.

Let the jealousy begin...

Car and house insurance premium? 2300 per year.

THAT'S FOUR CARS!

Snellville Ga ,,,,, House ,,,, 4 cars ,,,, just under $2400 (and one of the cars I have insured to the MAX ,,, the 57 Chevy!)

334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:58:12am

re: #330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

cooler.

335 prairiefire  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:58:17am

re: #330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My husband is more excited to watch them then my kids.

336 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:58:47am

re: #312 Obdicut

If money and commence is not THE MAJOR THEME in his Baroque Cycle, Stephenson certainly goes on a long time about it in the wired interview...

WN: In the book, a huge financial crisis hits Western Europe in the early 1690s, driven by a lack of available coinage, as well as the entire French government losing its credit rating. Did that really happen?
Stephenson: It really happened. It would take a better economic historian than I to explain why. At some level, trying to explain such events is a little like trying to explain the weather. Very generally, it has to do with the flow of metal around the world. That's important because money is a sort of medium for the exchange of information. When the price of cloth went up in Antwerp, it was because the system of international trade, in some fashion that's too complex for us to understand, was transmitting information about the supply/demand balance. Money makes that kind of information flow better.
Nowadays money is electronic and there's plenty of it. Back then, money had to be silver or gold. In those days silver came from the Spanish colonies of Mexico and Peru, and gold came from the Portuguese colony of Brazil. It was transported across the Atlantic to Europe, though English and other privateers did their best to intercept it en route. Some of it circulated in European markets, some was hoarded in the vaults of wealthy families and institutions, and a lot of it flowed east toward India and China. China was notoriously hungry for silver. It was a complicated flow pattern, with any number of sources and sinks and eddies and feedback loops, and like any other such system it was capable of chaotic behavior. If enough people hoarded their metal, a money shortage would develop, which would make it very difficult to conduct trade on any level beyond that of a village market, and throttle the flow of information.
The English coinage had been reformed a century and a half earlier, under Elizabeth. Thomas Gresham is rightly or wrongly given credit for this. At any rate, he got rich and endowed Gresham's College in London, which became the clubhouse of the Royal Society. And after the Royal Society luminaries had achieved a foothold in London, and helped rebuild the place after the fire, many of them turned their attention to problems relating to money. John Locke and Isaac Newton debated how much silver should be in a pound sterling, and what the exchange rate ought to be between silver and gold. The Bank of England was founded in 1694 at a time when the economy was almost stopped because of a currency crisis, and a general re-coinage got under way at around the same time.
You asked about France's credit rating. This had its ups and downs, which make for a pretty long and complicated story unto itself. I had to set at least a few limits on how much detail I was going to include about such things in this project, and so I've given a highly simplified, streamlined account of it here. The real crash of the old Lyon system occurred some years later, in the early 1700s. In The Baroque Cycle, I have depicted a major crash during the 1690s. This is not far off the mark since the French economy was profoundly screwed up during that period owing to war, famine, hoarding and messed-up coinage. But as always if you want the full story, you need to read some real history. The third volume of Fernand Braudel's Civilization and Capitalism trilogy covers this pretty well.

337 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:59:10am

re: #332 JeffM70

McCain is a bitter and angry old man.

Thats what I thought you said

Well ,,, out of those 4 things (bitter,, angry,,, old ,,, man) ,,,, you at least got 2 of them correct
50% isn't ZACTLY a great score though!!

338 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:59:30am

I'm paying about $1000 to be insured on the two family cars here. Just because I'm young and stupid... According to the insurance companies anyway. My driving record is spotless thus far.

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:59:32am

re: #328 Guanxi88

Let's see: Mortgage and taxes on new house: $315/month
Mortgage and taxes on old house: $1500/month

Hell, every body grab two beers and let's get some burgers and pizza in here.

How many bedrooms does the 1954 Silver Stream trailer have?

340 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 10:59:56am

re: #331 The Sanity Inspector

Congratulations! As the resident financial bore, let me encourage you to keep that former mortgage payment in your budget, and sock it away someplace lucrative. S&P Index funds for the kids, college fund, your own beltsander racing league, whathaveyou...

That's the whole point of the move. I'm wrapping up my MBA in financial planning and it wasn't long before I took those lessons home and to heart. Index funds for the apes, all consumer debt retired in FULL, all within less than one year's time.

With the cash we're not spending, I can start building my dream empire: A trailer park with a pawn shop, liquor store, and check-cashing/payday loan place within easy walking distance.

341 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:00:58am

re: #339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How many bedrooms does the 1954 Silver Stream trailer have?

Depends - how many folk are sleeping in the chemical toilet, and is there an awning?

342 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:01:28am

re: #339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How many bedrooms does the 1954 Silver Stream trailer have?


Does he insure that as a home or a vehicle!?!?

343 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:01:34am

re: #341 Guanxi88

heh

344 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:01:44am

re: #319 Red Pencil

Jack is trying to destroy Britain's "new" money at the behest of the "old" land based wealth/aristocratic order, aka Louis XIV, because Louis is blackmailing him. I don't know how Stephenson could be much clearer here.

I really want to read those books.

345 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:01:53am

Mid-day music break. Have you heard a really cool Van Halen cover done by a New Romantic 80s band today? Yes? Well, here's a better one.

Youtube Video
346 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:02:24am

re: #340 Guanxi88

How I wish I could start over...

Oh... and was smart.

347 Guanxi88  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:03:15am

re: #346 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How I wish I could start over...

Oh... and was smart.

Hell - I'm staring down the barrel of 40 my own damn self. Never too late till you're taking your last inhale.

348 Summer Seale  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:03:47am

I actually really like Orly Taitz.

The fact is that she does the sane, rational, coherent parties an incredible favor by being out there in the limelight as the face of a huge conspiracy theory.

It would have been impossible to pick another person who does such a perfect job of discrediting that entire line of thought in public.

Seriously.

Plus, she's great entertainment. It's kind of like watching the Monty Python village idiot skits. =)

349 Red Pencil  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:05:32am

re: #344 Cato the Elder

I really want to read those books.

This may sound odd, but you should probably start with Cryptonomicon. Though the Baroque Cycle is a prequel to Cryptonomicon, somehow the Baroque Cycle is more of a spoiler to Cryptonomicon than vice versa.

350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:06:41am

re: #347 Guanxi88

There's pot?

351 shiplord kirel  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:06:58am

Here's a great way to persuade the destitute state of California to cough up some more dough for your pet money hole:

Student Protest Erupts Into Riot On Berkeley Streets

A party to protest budget cuts turned violent early Friday with protesters damaging UC Berkeley's Durant Hall and then spilling over into the city streets, igniting trash cans and Dumpsters, smashing windows and clashing with police.

Authorities said at least two people had been arrested and the damage from the melee was evident throughout the campus and adjoining streets.

There were no indications of what would come early in the evening when a dance party to protest the cuts got underway on Upper Sproul Plaza.

Authorities said sometime around 11:15 p.m. a group of protester began occupation of Durant Hall, vandalizing the building.

The crowd then grew to more than 200 and poured into nearby streets. By 1:45 a.m., fueled by anger and alcohol, the crowd reeled completely out of control at the intersection of Durant and Telegraph avenues.

352 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:07:07am

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's pot?

In the kitchen ,, next to the pan!

353 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:07:29am

re: #344 Cato the Elder

I really want to read those books.

I have never had so much fun with a piece of historical fiction before. Really, the narrative was so clever, it kept me going back and forth between references to either discover more information about something, or to find out if Stephenson was being "creative."

As I said up thread, some of the actual facts were stranger than his created fictional history.

One caution, his writing style is also baroque, very freeform, so one moment you are reading a 30 page letter from one character to another and then the next minute you are reading a play script on some topic... and there are times when he can go on for painful pages just describing a walk across a courtyard.

But, he hides so many gems inside everything that you just plod on, even through some of the more self indulgent passages.

354 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:07:36am

re: #346 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How I wish I could start over...

Oh... and was smart.

Getting smart is starting over!

355 McSpiff  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:07:41am

re: #349 Red Pencil

This may sound odd, but you should probably start with Cryptonomicon. Though the Baroque Cycle is a prequel to Cryptonomicon, somehow the Baroque Cycle is more of a spoiler to Cryptonomicon than vice versa.

Agreed with this.

356 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:08:29am

re: #351 shiplord kirel

Here's a great way to persuade the destitute state of California to cough up some more dough for your pet money hole:

Student Protest Erupts Into Riot On Berkeley Streets

Rites of Spring

357 JeffM70  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:10:59am

re: #337 sattv4u2

You don't think he's angry, the man whose temper is infamous? And he's not bitter? Seems like McCain attacks Obama every chance he gets. Look at how he had to contort himself to justify his criticism of Obama advocating the repeal of DADT.

358 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:11:48am

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's pot?

re: #352 sattv4u2

In the kitchen ,, next to the pan!

The real stuff is in the trunk next to the ether, but watch out, this is bat country.

359 shiplord kirel  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:16:38am

re: #356 Thanos

Rites of Spring

No doubt the frustration is real- most of these losers couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse if they owned a banana plantation- but they should find some other way to relieve it, say, by going out to the beach and howling at the Moon until they fall asleep.

360 cliffster  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:17:08am

re: #352 sattv4u2

In the kitchen ,, next to the pan!

Dave's not here

361 soap_man  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:18:15am

OT: I would like to congratulate the Canadian Women's Hockey Team for their impressive performance last night in winning the gold. And kudos to our ladies on their silver and fine effort through these Olympic games.

362 Buck  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:19:04am

re: #361 soap_man

OT: I would like to congratulate the Canadian Women's Hockey Team for their impressive performance last night in winning the gold. And kudos to our ladies on their silver and fine effort through these Olympic games.

Probably the longest 2 nothing in their lives...

363 soap_man  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:19:56am

re: #362 Buck

Probably the longest 2 nothing in their lives...

Probably. But there is nothing to be ashamed of. Team Canada is incredible.

364 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:23:32am

Btreitbart's Big Government site goes undercover and exposes the New World Order tracking chips.....
Hidden Healthcare Reform Objective: Feds Want to Know Your Number (via google)

For the past several months, I have been working with an appointed member of the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST), the sub-committee on health and technology. My contact on the health and technology sub-committee was privy to conversations, which when related to me, literally caused shivers down my spine.

Every single detail in my opening paragraphs of this article were actually discussed in this committee and seen as a good for the future of American society. Only a scientifically controlled populace, according to these gurus of population and health control, can survive. These scientists see their mission as one of absolute control over even the most private aspects of human life.

Not since the aftermath of WWII — when the ends of the scientific-progressive state were revealed to the world in vivid pictures of the Nazi death camps — have progressives dared to raise their heads in America to such a degree as they are now, under the leadership of Obama’s science guru, John Holdren. Holdren, early in his career, declared himself a Malthusian scientist and has, regretfully, never recanted, nor substantially altered his worldview. In Holdren’s mind, as revealed in confirmation testimony, only his numbers have been off in the past, not his conclusions on the necessity of scientific control as a societal good.

FDA approves computer CHIP in humans

Youtube Video
365 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:23:44am

re: #357 JeffM70

You don't think he's angry, the man whose temper is infamous? And he's not bitter? Seems like McCain attacks Obama every chance he gets. Look at how he had to contort himself to justify his criticism of Obama advocating the repeal of DADT.

You seem angry and bitter

(see how easy it is to get labeled!?!?!)

366 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:25:20am

re: #361 soap_man

Pissed me off when people bitched about them having beer and cigars. I thought it was great.

Canadian's drinking beer? OH THE HUMANITY!

(Chicks with cigars? eh.)

"Some men are turned on by women smoking cigars. Just what I want in a girlfriend. I want to think of Edward G. Robinson!"
-Richard Jeni (RIP)

367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:27:13am

"It is a sad fact that 50 percent of marriages in this country end in divorce. But hey, the other half end in death. You could be one of the lucky ones!"
-Richard Jeni

368 cliffster  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:30:55am

"I'd hate to be the headless horsemans dentist. You wouldn't make too much money"

369 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:38:32am

re: #367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"It is a sad fact that 50 percent of marriages in this country end in divorce. But hey, the other half end in death. You could be one of the lucky ones!"
-Richard Jeni

I miss him!

370 JeffM70  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:41:46am

re: #365 sattv4u2

Well, nothing I have said suggests I'm either angry or bitter, whereas McCain is known to have a temper and his behavior over the last year strikes me as the behavior of person who is bitter. Your label is based on nothing, whereas mine is at least based on things McCain has said and done and what others have said about him. What I haven't heard is why you think he isn't angry or bitter.

371 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:57:15am

re: #349 Red Pencil

This may sound odd, but you should probably start with Cryptonomicon. Though the Baroque Cycle is a prequel to Cryptonomicon, somehow the Baroque Cycle is more of a spoiler to Cryptonomicon than vice versa.

I already have Crypto under my belt.

As an aside, does anyone remember my little Kindle-swindle story from last year?

I was reading Stephenson and decided I needed some background on crypto. So I surfed the Kindle and found a cheap intro called "What Is Cryptography?" by one Jimmy Dale for a buck. Usually I download a sample of anything I propose to buy for the Kindle, but in this case I just bought it. A buck, I thought, what the hell?

So it turns out to be three whole pages of stuff taken directly from Wiki and sold by this guy who, I found out, specializes in selling cut-and-paste ripoffs of things in the public domain. Things like "Favorite Hebrew Prayers" (without the Hebrew) or "How to Say the Rosary" cribbed from synagogue or church websites. I checked a bit further and found he had over 3,000 such "books" on Amazon, which at the time represented about one percent of the total Kindle offerings.

Anyway, I got in touch with Amazon's legal department and the said they'd look into it. But every time I checked back in there were even more Jimmy Dale productions.

Finally, this week, I checked again and guess what? They're all gone. Which means Amazon/Kindle is cleaning house. Good on them.

Bye-bye, scamster Jimmy!

372 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 11:58:42am

re: #353 Walter L. Newton

I have never had so much fun with a piece of historical fiction before. Really, the narrative was so clever, it kept me going back and forth between references to either discover more information about something, or to find out if Stephenson was being "creative."

As I said up thread, some of the actual facts were stranger than his created fictional history.

One caution, his writing style is also baroque, very freeform, so one moment you are reading a 30 page letter from one character to another and then the next minute you are reading a play script on some topic... and there are times when he can go on for painful pages just describing a walk across a courtyard.

But, he hides so many gems inside everything that you just plod on, even through some of the more self indulgent passages.

I'm a big fan of Baroque style. Did you ever read John Barth's "The Sot-Weed Factor"? Takes place largely in colonial Maryland.

373 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:17:23pm

re: #251 Mad Al-Jaffee

Cindy Sheehan gets the bronze?

Oh, McKinney is crazier than SHeehan.

374 doubter4444  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:17:47pm

re: #372 Cato the Elder

I'm a big fan of Baroque style. Did you ever read John Barth's "The Sot-Weed Factor"? Takes place largely in colonial Maryland.

I have and really enjoyed it.
I'm half was through the Baroque cycle at the moment.
Interesting side note, he wrote a satiric novel under a pseudonym Stephen Bury called "Interface" about a Governor that runs for president, and then goes from there.
It's an early work but kind of good, and even though it's a satire, it's getting closer to the bone every election cycle. Worth reading, particularly if you like him.
When I find an author I like, I try to read the early stuff to see how the voice and style mature (silly, I guess, but I find it kinda cool) and it's interesting to see how some writers progress and others don't

Another of my favorite big idea books is the Red Mars trilogy by Kim Stanly Robinson.
The politics are fairly liberal, but it's a fascinating look at creating a society from scratch.

375 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:17:56pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Well, there's the Biblioburro in Columbia. It's like a bookmobile but with a donkey.

That is AWESOME.

376 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:19:47pm

re: #370 JeffM70

Well, nothing I have said suggests I'm either angry or bitter, whereas McCain is known to have a temper and his behavior over the last year strikes me as the behavior of person who is bitter. Your label is based on nothing, whereas mine is at least based on things McCain has said and done and what others have said about him. What I haven't heard is why you think he isn't angry or bitter.

Mine is based on the tonality of your post I responded too. Again, this is how these things get spread (what others have said about him).

So now, I have said it about you!

See how that works !?!?!

377 Slap  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:21:22pm

re: #348 Summer

Holy chit -- that's it! Orly's really a GUMBY!!!!!!

378 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:28:47pm

re: #374 doubter4444

I have the first of the Red Mars series on the Kindle.

So many books, so little time.

379 doubter4444  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 12:44:38pm

re: #378 Cato the Elder

I have the first of the Red Mars series on the Kindle.

So many books, so little time.

True, that.
I respect your opinion, so I'd be interested in your take on it.
It takes a few pages to kick in but I found it pretty engrossing, i hope you like it.

380 JeffM70  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 1:40:29pm

re: #376 sattv4u2

Mine is based on the tonality of your post I responded too. Again, this is how these things get spread (what others have said about him).

So now, I have said it about you!

See how that works !?!?!

Your label is based on what you think my tonality is, or what you want it to be to make your point. Nothing more.

And again, you still haven't said why McCain isn't angry or bitter. You just talk about how easy it is to apply labels, which I agree, it is. But that doesn't make them any less true when they are based on actual observations.

381 sattv4u2  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 2:12:24pm

re: #380 JeffM70

Your label is based on what you think my tonality is, or what you want it to be to make your point. Nothing more.

And again, you still haven't said why McCain isn't angry or bitter. You just talk about how easy it is to apply labels, which I agree, it is. But that doesn't make them any less true when they are based on actual observations.

And as "proof" that Mccain is angry and bitter, you offer your "actual observation(s)" of him to "make your point", yet when I did the same in regards to you that wasn't enough for you.

Again ,,, see how that goes !?

382 Egregious Philbin  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 5:17:14pm

Hayworthless is on fox now, saying that the things he said on his radio show were just him trying to gin up ratings.

Can't have it both ways fat boy.

Christ this guy is a nutcase, I can't wait to NOT vote for his kook ass.

383 JeffM70  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 5:49:27pm

Myre: #381 sattv4u2

And as "proof" that Mccain is angry and bitter, you offer your "actual observation(s)" of him to "make your point", yet when I did the same in regards to you that wasn't enough for you.

Again ,,, see how that goes !?

If you think making an observation based on one post of an anonymous person is as valid as making an observation based upon seeing and hearing a public figure speak, I don't know what to tell you. Gratuitous use of quotations marks certainly doesn't bolster your case.

384 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Feb 26, 2010 8:06:44pm

re: #25 Charles

Jay Tea from Wizbang just sent me a long ranting diatribe, after I exposed him as trolling LGF under the name 'BunnyThief'. This guy is a flat out kook. I read the first sentence and filed it in the abuse folder.

Charles -

For the "Hallibutt" - who is the likely "D" Candidate in AZ for US Senate? McCain is a last hurrah at best, and of course Sarah owes him, which accounts for her endorsement. JDH seems to me to be too clever by half.
Glad to live in NJ at this point.

-S-


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