Would Machiavelli Have Loved Open Primaries?

Wisconsin Republicans Advocate Dangerous Tactic

OpinionMay 2012 • Views: 31,398

This question might not be as interesting as the last one I asked of the same form - Would Plato Have Loved The Bossa Nova? - but the answer to this one is more obvious and certainly affirmative. As reported by Adam Rodewald in today’s Oshkosh Northwestern [link forthcoming]-

Republican Senate Leader Scott Fitzgerald and State Rep. Robin Vos have both publicly stated they hope Republicans cross over and vote for Democrat Kathleen Falk in the governor’s race, according to the Associated Press. That’s because recent polls suggest Walker has a better chance of defeating Falk, a former Dane County Executive, than Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett in the general recall election.

However, the Winnebago County Republican Party said Walker supporters could leave the governor vulnerable in his own primary if too many cross over to the other side. Walker also faces competition in Arthur Kohl-Riggs, a 23-year old from Madison, in a primary election Tuesday. Joe Malecki, communications director for the county Republican Party, said he suspects some Democrats might be voting for Kohl-Riggs to make it appear Walker is losing support within his own party.

…

The Winnebago County Republican Party is explicitly recommending Republicans vote in the Democratic primary for lieutenant governor. The party wants its members to vote for Republican protest candidate Issac Weix in an attempt to eliminate the actual Democratic challenger, Mitchell Mahlon.

Machiavelli reputedly advocated the morally problematic view that “the end justifies the means”. Even if this view were true for objectively good ends (and I doubt that it is), surely more evil has at least inadvertently been done in the name of good than in the name of evil. So anyone who thinks that this Machiavellian gaming of the political process is anything but a horrible idea should first have their conscience - and then other parts of their mind - examined. On the (controversial but widely believed) assumption that in any political debate one side would bring about a good while the other would (at least inadvertently) bring about an evil, it is obviously unwise - not to mention self-defeating - for either side to endorse or encourage the use of a deceptive tactic that could just as easily be used against it!

Since it seems clear that we shouldn’t have government or even party bosses deciding who can run in a given primary, all sides should agree: there should be no “open primaries”.

For more: blogherenow.net

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123 comments

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 7, 2012 2:32:48pm

What would be in it for him, personally?

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 2:33:24pm

To jump in with a defense of Machiavelli: the bulk of his writing is pro-Republic, and it is highly possible that The Prince was a satire, or an intentionally flawed work.

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 2:34:37pm

re: #2 Obdicut

To jump in with a defense of Machiavelli: the bulk of his writing is pro-Republic, and it is highly possible that The Prince was a satire, or an intentionally flawed work.

Beat me to it.

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 2:36:34pm

re: #3 Kragar

Beat me to it.

It's a really fascinating bit of literary/political history and the research on it is interestingly byzantine.

But in the modern meaning of Machiavellian, the author of this post has a good point. It's nice to be able to have a primary open to 'independent' people who align with the party for that election, but having it open to anyone obviously leaves it open to abuse.

However, I don't even like having political parties, though it's hard to come up with workable alternatives.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 7, 2012 2:37:39pm

re: #2 Obdicut

To jump in with a defense of Machiavelli: the bulk of his writing is pro-Republic, and it is highly possible that The Prince was a satire, or an intentionally flawed work.

To jump in with another defense of Machiavelli, the phrase goes back at least to Sophocles, and exists as a proverb in English separately of any influence by poor ol' Niccolo.

William Barnett-Lewis Mon, May 7, 2012 2:38:07pm

The Republicans have been using barely legal and certainly immoral tactics here in Wisconsin for a very long time. Scooter & his fellow liars are simply more open about the same things Tommy Thompson used to at least pretend weren't happening.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 2:40:49pm

I've tried twice to get thru The Prince --can't get into it.

S'latch Mon, May 7, 2012 2:42:19pm

I agree that that we shouldn’t have government or even party bosses deciding who can run in a given primary. But, should we have government or party bosses deciding which state-registered voters can vote in a given primary? I don't think so.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 2:42:59pm

re: #8 Lawrence Schmerel

I agree that that we shouldn’t have government or even party bosses deciding who can run in a given primary. But, should we have government or party bosses deciding who vote in a given primary? I don't think so.

Seems it's been going on as long as there have been elections. We do the best we can.

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 2:43:12pm

re: #4 Obdicut

It's a really fascinating bit of literary/political history and the research on it is interestingly byzantine.

But in the modern meaning of Machiavellian, the author of this post has a good point. It's nice to be able to have a primary open to 'independent' people who align with the party for that election, but having it open to anyone obviously leaves it open to abuse.

However, I don't even like having political parties, though it's hard to come up with workable alternatives.

CA has been working on some efforts to control this sort of thing in some areas, where only the top 2 candidates move to the final election, regardless of which party they are a member of. Its one of the reasons why CA the GOP is having so many of their rising stars drop out. Being GOP doesn't guarantee them a spot on the November ballot anymore.

Vicious Babushka Mon, May 7, 2012 2:43:51pm

6 Books Everyone (Including Your English Teacher) Got Wrong.

"Cracked" takes a crack at "The Prince"

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 2:44:19pm

re: #7 ggt

I've tried twice to get thru The Prince --can't get into it.

What about The Moris Day and the Time?

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 2:46:47pm

re: #12 Kragar

What about The Moris Day and the Time?

Morris is pretty awesome, but just not the original --you know?

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 7, 2012 2:47:06pm

re: #11 Learned Mother of Zion

6 Books Everyone (Including Your English Teacher) Got Wrong.

"Cracked" takes a crack at "The Prince"

It's not the only book that was taken, perhaps, more seriously than the author intended. Generations of college students were taught that Capellanus' Art of Courtly Love was a dead serious portrayal of exactly how courtly love worked. More recent scholarship suggests, rather convincingly, that it was a send-up of the mating habits of the nobility, written to entertain his college friends.

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 2:48:37pm

re: #7 ggt

I've tried twice to get thru The Prince --can't get into it.

Did you try again after he changed his name to a symbol?
;)

Having a good afternoon?

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 2:50:08pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Mallory actually thought knights were twits.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 2:51:02pm

re: #11 Learned Mother of Zion

6 Books Everyone (Including Your English Teacher) Got Wrong.

"Cracked" takes a crack at "The Prince"

Part of the blame might also be leveled at the shitty job that people have done in trying to translate his work into English. It's from Machiavelli that we get the notorious phrase "the end justifies the means." A much more accurate translation from the original Italian is something more like "one must consider the end," which kind of means something totally different.

Read more: 6 Books Everyone (Including Your English Teacher) Got Wrong | Cracked.com [Link: www.cracked.com...]

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 2:51:33pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not the only book that was taken, perhaps, more seriously than the author intended. Generations of college students were taught that Capellanus' Art of Courtly Love was a dead serious portrayal of exactly how courtly love worked. More recent scholarship suggests, rather convincingly, that it was a send-up of the mating habits of the nobility, written to entertain his college friends.

Courtly love is a great source of amusement in the Arthurian RPG games. A sub-system that basically revolves around knights voluntarily doing fairly stupid (and often dangerous) activities simply to get a woman's attention. Who could often possibly already be married to someone else.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 2:52:22pm

re: #15 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Did you try again after he changed his name to a symbol?
;)

Having a good afternoon?

Trying to anyway.

Hubby cranky and not feeling well, puts a damper on my whole day.

Thanks for askin'

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 2:52:53pm

Reince Priebus "You can't federalize" the gay marriage issue.

I guess that means the GOP will drop the DOMA and their talk about amending the Constitution about the issue.

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 2:53:32pm

re: #19 ggt

Trying to anyway.

Hubby cranky and not feeling well, puts a damper on my whole day.

I can understand that. My gout flared up and I have a high crankiness rating today as well.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, May 7, 2012 2:54:51pm

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

OMG

That explains a lot of my romantic enterprises…

Charles Johnson Mon, May 7, 2012 2:54:53pm

Random: someone just drove past my office window yelling, "BONITO! BONITO!"

darthstar Mon, May 7, 2012 2:56:46pm

Methinks Varek may have some kids he doesn't know about...

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 2:57:58pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Mallory actually thought knights were twits.

Yep. The reality of politics and alliance marriages of that time period contrasted with the idealism of chivalry and courtly love. Lip service to the latter and the associated concept of honor while the political reality and human nature is headed in the opposite direction (unless there is someone watching.)

Great material for a game. Lots of hooks and paradoxes to whipsaw players around in.

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 2:58:35pm

re: #24 darthstar

So cute. She's got a great glare, too.

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 2:59:22pm

re: #24 darthstar

Methinks Varek may have some kids he doesn't know about...

Youtube Video

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 3:00:31pm

re: #25 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Yep. The reality of politics and alliance marriages of that time period contrasted with the idealism of chivalry and courtly love. Lip service to the latter and the associated concept of honor while the political reality and human nature is headed in the opposite direction (unless there is someone watching.)

Great material for a game. Lots of hooks and paradoxes to whipsaw players around in.

Aristocratic Women were pawns and manipulated their roles as much as they could.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, May 7, 2012 3:01:16pm

Somebody tell me that Ars Amatoria was sincere. :-(

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 3:01:53pm

re: #29 Unlike Some People

Nope. Satire.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 3:02:08pm

re: #29 Unlike Some People

Somebody tell me that Ars Amatoria was sincere. :-(

Ok, it was sincere.

(actually have no clue, haven't read it yet)

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, May 7, 2012 3:03:13pm

Okay, that's it. I am not taking love advice from dead people I can't bop in the nose anymore.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 3:03:38pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Random: someone just drove past my office window yelling, "BONITO! BONITO!"

???

Bonito is a name given to various species of medium-sized, predatory fish in the Scombridae family. First, bonito most commonly refers to species in the genus Sarda, including the Atlantic bonito (Sarda sarda) and the Pacific bonito (Sarda chiliensis lineolata); second, in Japanese cuisine, bonito refers to the skipjack tuna (a species of mackerel) (Katsuwonus pelamis), which, in Japan, is called by its local name, katsuo; and, third, bonito can generally refer to any of various scombroid fish of the mackerel family, and related to, but smaller than, tuna.

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 3:03:41pm

re: #29 Unlike Some People

If it makes you feel better, it was a satire of instructional poetry, using the ribald advice to do so. So the advice may well have been sincerely observed.

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 3:04:43pm

Well, just got a call that my landlord got my rent check, but I forgot to sign it. Off to remedy the situation before penalties ensue.

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 3:04:53pm

re: #28 ggt

Aristocratic Women were pawns and manipulated their roles as much as they could.

Very much so.

Which is one reason I like Martin's _Song of Fire and Ice_ series (write/edit faster dammit!). He hit the politics and such dead on for the feudal mindset and situation. Dynasties and families are the driving unit, not nationalism, at least for the nobility.

And if you ignore the woman folk too long you discover that one of them is Eleanor of Aquitaine too late. O_O

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 3:04:59pm

I have to accomplish something.

Then take Brat Puppy to Agility Class.

Chat wit' U ltr.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, May 7, 2012 3:05:17pm

JFTR: I was being sarcastic.

Later, folks.

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:05:32pm

I see a couple of Pages were just posted that make the heading "What War on Women?" seem a bit too mild...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 3:06:28pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Random: someone just drove past my office window yelling, "BONITO! BONITO!"

Maybe Parcells got hired for something out that way.
/

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 3:08:29pm

re: #39 freetoken

I see a couple of Pages were just posted that make the heading "What War on Women?" seem a bit too mild...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

My Daily T-shirt Rants --yes, another tonite.

share if you like.

copy-paste-share and share alike.--get the message around.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 7, 2012 3:10:40pm

re: #36 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Very much so.

Which is one reason I like Martin's _Song of Fire and Ice_ series (write/edit faster dammit!). He hit the politics and such dead on for the feudal mindset and situation. Dynasties and families are the driving unit, not nationalism, at least for the nobility.

And if you ignore the woman folk too long you discover that one of them is Eleanor of Aquitaine too late. O_O

or Catherine de Medici?

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 3:13:50pm

re: #42 ggt

or Catherine de Medici?

Even more so I'd say. "I drank what...(gurgle)"

bluecheese Mon, May 7, 2012 3:14:04pm

Although Falk more closely alines with my own political beliefs (plus I'd love to have a women Governor), I voted for Barrett just simply cause he polls better against Walker. I'm pragmatic like that. I also got the innernetss, so I aint votin for no fake dem lieutenant governor either.

As for fucking around voting in the other party's elections, it never seem to add up to much here in Wisconsin. I voted for ole frothy in the primary lil while back, but he still not do shit there.

My guess is that aint nobody votin for that idiot running against Walker, and Falk aint gonna even come close to winning either.

My prediction is that Walker wins it, by a very close margin. Look for Waukesha county to do the 'maths'.

Dems need a blow out to overcome the 99.9 percentage of folks that vote (and are registered to vote) in that county.

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:16:44pm

No, you didn't want to be downwind:

Dinosaurs' Gaseous Emissions Warmed Earth?

Charles Johnson Mon, May 7, 2012 3:17:42pm

re: #45 freetoken

No, you didn't want to be downwind:

Dinosaurs' Gaseous Emissions Warmed Earth?

Saw that earlier - the dopes of the right wing blogosphere are all snickering about it.

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:18:48pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

Not surprised at all.

Biological systems iz hard.

Decatur Deb Mon, May 7, 2012 3:20:42pm

On-line Machiavelli biography in graphic-novel format:

[Link: donmacdonald.com...]

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 3:21:12pm

re: #45 freetoken

No, you didn't want to be downwind:

Dinosaurs' Gaseous Emissions Warmed Earth?

Gives new meaning to the translation of dinosaur as "thunder lizard".

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:40:18pm

This is classic - the Tea Partier challenging Lugar claims to not be a creationist, and given his background in geology that is understandable. However, how does he handle all his Tea Party supporters, many of whom are SoCons?

On creationism and schools, his answer is simply that local communities should decide:

Can science save us? Mourdock sees a savior in science

[...]

Mourdock says that topics like teaching creationism in schools should be debated at the local level, not the national level.

[...]

What's to be "debated"? Whether school boards have to follow the US Constitution?

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 3:44:26pm

re: #50 freetoken

This is classic - the Tea Partier challenging Lugar claims to not be a creationist, and given his background in geology that is understandable. However, how does he handle all his Tea Party supporters, many of whom are SoCons?

On creationism and schools, his answer is simply that local communities should decide:

Can science save us? Mourdock sees a savior in science

What's to be "debated"? Whether school boards have to follow the US Constitution?

How can we expect to have any futurists in our population when so many people refuse to even accept the present. They are not even modern humans but instead they are a sort of pre-modern human.

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:46:30pm

Everyone's favorite commie-hunter is finding new places to park his politicking:

Allen West Joins Advisory Board of Far-Right, Anti-Islam Law Center

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:51:24pm

The War On Pink Slime scores a victory:

Beef company closing 3 plants, blaming 'pink slime' uproar

Feline Fearless Leader Mon, May 7, 2012 3:53:07pm

re: #53 freetoken

The War On Pink Slime scores a victory:

Beef company closing 3 plants, blaming 'pink slime' uproar

Their cousins are still conspiring to win Wimbledon. After they load the referendum on Scottish independence.
;)

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 3:55:31pm

Romney loves his wingnut audiences:

Romney stands silent as supporter accuses Obama of treason

Mitt Romney drew criticism Monday after he failed to correct a questioner who suggested at a campaign event that President Obama should be tried for treason.

The woman, in posing a question to Romney, asserted, “We have a president right now that is operating outside the structure of our Constitution.”

She was interrupted by applause from the crowd.

“I want to know," she said before turning to another audience member and saying, “Yeah, I do agree he should be tried for treason. But I want to know what you are going to be able to do to help restore balance between the three branches of government and what you’re going to be able to do to restore our Constitution in this country?”

Romney, after waiting for the applause to die down, answered the woman’s question without addressing the treason remark.

“Well, as I’m sure you do, I happen to believe that the Constitution was not just brilliant, but probably inspired,” he said. “I believe the same thing about the Declaration of Independence.”

[...]

I like to think the torture Romney must feel from not being able to express his feelings openly in these wingnut meetings when the nuts engage in stupidity is some sort of divine justice.

Speaking of the divine, Mitt's belief about the Constitution is pretty standard Mormonism, and true of many SoCons too.

We are a religious nation.

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 3:59:08pm

re: #55 freetoken

Romney loves his wingnut audiences:

Romney stands silent as supporter accuses Obama of treason

I like to think the torture Romney must feel from not being able to express his feelings openly in these wingnut meetings when the nuts engage in stupidity is some sort of divine justice.

Speaking of the divine, Mitt's belief about the Constitution is pretty standard Mormonism, and true of many SoCons too.

We are a religious nation.

Wait. I thought he finally said something. Of course that came hours later. And it wasn't even Mitt but some kind of lame response from the "Romney camp."

#RomneyFail

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, May 7, 2012 3:59:13pm

That's one way to suppress some protests

...and give the black block anarchists the moral high ground as well

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, May 7, 2012 3:59:37pm

re: #55 freetoken

Romney loves his wingnut audiences:

Romney stands silent as supporter accuses Obama of treason

I like to think the torture Romney must feel from not being able to express his feelings openly in these wingnut meetings when the nuts engage in stupidity is some sort of divine justice.

Speaking of the divine, Mitt's belief about the Constitution is pretty standard Mormonism, and true of many SoCons too.

We are a religious nation.

cultist nation

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 4:01:48pm

Romney refuses to learn that he can never win against the stupidity of the haters:

Youtube Video

re: #56 Gus

It is so typical. Everybody who runs for Presidency has to have a bit of lust for power, but in Romney's case it has blinded him to the obvious fact illustrated by the above video: as he lets the right-wing extremists bully him they not only won't back down but in classic bully fashion will just amp up.

Mentis Fugit Mon, May 7, 2012 4:02:46pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Random: someone just drove past my office window yelling, "BONITO! BONITO!"

The Cat?

William Barnett-Lewis Mon, May 7, 2012 4:04:49pm

re: #44 bluecheese

I noticed the other day that they forced the Waukesha county clerk to sit out running the recall election. Probably to make it look better when they go to steal the election again.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, May 7, 2012 4:06:21pm

re: #59 freetoken

The shining city on the hill

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 4:18:46pm

If our election debates were like the recent one in Mexico...

Jimmah Mon, May 7, 2012 4:21:28pm

re: #54 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Their cousins are still conspiring to win Wimbledon. After they load the referendum on Scottish independence.
;)

Scotland and Andromeda - The Auld Alliance ;)

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:27:40pm

re: #63 freetoken

If our election debates were like the recent one in Mexico...

Arianna Huffington's Huffington Post takes it from here.

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 4:29:29pm

re: #65 Gus

Well, maybe the ratings would be higher for American debates if only...

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:31:44pm

re: #66 freetoken

Well, maybe the ratings would be higher for American debates if only...

I'd settle for better candidates, questions, and real journalists asking the questions. It would bring better ratings but then I wouldn't be able to concentrate.

freetoken Mon, May 7, 2012 4:32:22pm

And finally, this sort of explains it all:

People love talking about themselves, brain scans show

Participants who talked about themselves showed signs of activity in the areas of the brain that are linked to value and motivation, said Diana Tamir, lead author of a study published in this week's issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

"This helps to explain why people so obsessively engage in this behavior. It's because it provides them with some sort of subjective value: It feels good, basically," said Tamir, a graduate student in the Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience Lab at Harvard University.

Indeed, the researchers found that the regions of the brain that are activated by talking about oneself are also responsible for the thrills of food, sex, money and drug addiction, Tamir said.
The findings are more than a scientific curiosity, Tamir said, considering how much time people spend discussing themselves. By one estimate, 30 percent to 40 percent of your speech has to do with you.

"Self-disclosure is a behavior that we do all of the time, day in and day out: When you talk to people, they'll often talk about themselves," Tamir said. "On Twitter and Facebook, people are primarily posting about what they're thinking and feeling in the moment. This is one piece of evidence about why we may do that."

[...]

Jimmah Mon, May 7, 2012 4:34:22pm

re: #53 freetoken

The War On Pink Slime scores a victory:

Beef company closing 3 plants, blaming 'pink slime' uproar

Kinda funny that at the same time we're all supposed to be fainting about pink slime, we're also supposed to be getting stoked about 'hoof to tail' cuisine.

I guess it must be the ammonia people are worried about? (which is neither pink nor slimy).

William Barnett-Lewis Mon, May 7, 2012 4:34:29pm

Heh.

I wrote a column last month quoting John Dean, aide to disgraced former President Richard Nixon, suggesting that Scott Walker, Wisconsin’s Republican governor, is “more Nixonian than Nixon.”
Dean had written that Walker is a “classic authoritarian,” someone who seeks to dominate others, opposes equality, strongly desires personal power, and is amoral.
A reader highlighted a new Walker-Nixon connection. Edward Cox, the late president’s son-in-law by marriage to Tricia Nixon in 1971, is chairman of the New York Republican State Committee. Cox’s name and committee are listed on a $10,000 donation to Walker in this list compiled by the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign.
Small world.

[Link: host.madison.com...]

bluecheese Mon, May 7, 2012 4:34:50pm

re: #67 Gus

I'd settle for better candidates, questions, and real journalists asking the questions. It would bring better ratings but then I wouldn't be able to concentrate.

I wonder when Maddow gets to host one....

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:36:46pm

Emperor's Clothes - By Horsey 2-6-00

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:37:37pm

re: #71 bluecheese

I wonder when Maddow gets to host one...

That would be a welcome change. Gwen Ifill did one if I remember correctly?

Interesting Times Mon, May 7, 2012 4:41:55pm

re: #68 freetoken

And finally, this sort of explains it all:

People love talking about themselves, brain scans show

Am I an anomaly, then? :) I absolutely, positively, loathe talking about myself, especially in the context of soul-destroying "how was your weekend?" smalltalk (the sheer inanity and banality of which makes me want to throw myself off a cliff)

On the other hand, the brain activity the researchers discuss does indeed occur for me when I get to talk about things I'm interested in.

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 4:42:53pm

Penalties averted, victory Kragar.

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:45:08pm

Jesus and the Pharisees - By Horsey

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:46:07pm

re: #75 Kragar

Penalties averted, victory Kragar.

Still first down?

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 4:50:15pm

re: #77 Gus

Still first down?

Thats a sports thingee, right?

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:50:54pm

re: #78 Kragar

Thats a sports thingee, right?

So I heard.

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 4:57:16pm

I got nuthin.

Obdicut Mon, May 7, 2012 4:57:36pm

It's my friends Bernie and Leah's 50th wedding anniversary. That's nuts.

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 4:58:12pm

re: #81 Obdicut

It's my friends Bernie and Leah's 50th wedding anniversary. That's nuts.

You know some old people.

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 4:59:45pm

re: #81 Obdicut

It's my friends Bernie and Leah's 50th wedding anniversary. That's nuts.

My Firefox is going nuts. That work?

William Barnett-Lewis Mon, May 7, 2012 5:00:16pm

re: #81 Obdicut

It's my friends Bernie and Leah's 50th wedding anniversary. That's nuts.

The 50th can still be a heck of a fun party :) Alas, the 60th was much more of a snooze.

(My in-laws.)

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:00:35pm

re: #83 Gus

My Firefox is going nuts. That work?

My nuts are on fire. Does that work?

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:01:21pm

re: #85 b_sharp

My nuts are on fire. Does that work?

Like prickly heat?

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 5:01:58pm

re: #81 Obdicut

It's my friends Bernie and Leah's 50th wedding anniversary. That's nuts.

My Uncle's first wife's grandmother shot her husband on their 50th.

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:04:07pm

re: #86 Gus

Like prickly heat?

//

Don't be so cock sure.

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:04:46pm

re: #87 Kragar

My Uncle's first wife's grandmother shot her husband on their 50th.

That is so cool.

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:07:06pm

re: #89 b_sharp

That is so cool.

That's very bold of you.

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:07:14pm

I am so bored.

Somebody fix it.

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:08:48pm

re: #91 b_sharp

I am so bored.

Somebody fix it.

Come on man. We've got end-timers; Godwins galore; bomb plots; shootings; etc.

Stanghazi Mon, May 7, 2012 5:10:43pm

re: #87 Kragar

My Uncle's first wife's grandmother shot her husband on their 50th.

ENOUGH!

EdDantes Mon, May 7, 2012 5:10:59pm

re: #89 b_sharp

That is so cool.

How 'bout this: My grandad, a sharecropper, shot and killed his land owner in 1927. The land owner put a bullet in the rear window between my young uncles. My grandad, after trial, was acquitted.The jury said the man, "needed killin'"

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:12:01pm

Tragedy has struck!

North Face alert: Goose down prices soaring -- and along with them, puffy jacket prices. on.wsj.com/IzgTrb
— Jim Roberts (@nytjim) May 8, 2012

Wow. What will the world do?

Stanghazi Mon, May 7, 2012 5:13:04pm

re: #92 Gus

Come on man. We've got end-timers; Godwins galore; bomb plots; shootings; etc.

//

Traitors in the Whitehouse! How people can be so angry and scared shitless based on ignorance. I'm not feeling very hopeful...

Decatur Deb Mon, May 7, 2012 5:13:36pm

re: #94 EdDantes

How 'bout this: My grandad, a sharecropper, shot and killed his land owner in 1927. The land owner put a bullet in the rear window between my young uncles. My grandad, after trial, was acquitted.The jury said the man, "needed killin'"

What county in Alabama?

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:14:22pm

re: #94 EdDantes

How 'bout this: My grandad, a sharecropper, shot and killed his land owner in 1927. The land owner put a bullet in the rear window between my young uncles. My grandad, after trial, was acquitted.The jury said the man, "needed killin'"

Cool²

EdDantes Mon, May 7, 2012 5:14:45pm

re: #97 Decatur Deb

What county in Alabama?

Close! Oklahoma.

100

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:16:23pm

re: #96 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Traitors in the Whitehouse! How people can be so angry and scared shitless based on ignorance. I'm not feeling very hopeful...

Change comes slowly. Think about what we were within the past 100 years alone. Go back to 1912 which was just a stone's throw away from our lives today.

101

EdDantes Mon, May 7, 2012 5:16:38pm

re: #99 EdDantes

Greer county.

102

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:17:17pm

re: #99 EdDantes

Close! Oklahoma.

Oklahoma sounds like a place that should be in a musical.

103

Stanghazi Mon, May 7, 2012 5:17:21pm

[Link: movies.nytimes.com...]

Heard this review on all things considered today. Jack Black caretaker to the meanest woman, killed her, no one minded. Def going to see.

104

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 5:17:54pm

re: #89 b_sharp

That is so cool.

Shotgun while he was in bed sleeping. Neighbors came by after not seeing him for a few days, she had wrapped him up and stuck him in the closet.

"I was tired of his shit."

105

EdDantes Mon, May 7, 2012 5:18:21pm

re: #102 b_sharp

Oklahoma sounds like a place that should be in a musical.

Nah. It would never sell.

106

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:18:48pm

re: #104 Kragar

Shotgun while he was in bed sleeping. Neighbors came by after not seeing him for a few days, she had wrapped him up and stuck him in the closet.

"I was tired of his shit."

Ballsy woman.

107

Kragar Mon, May 7, 2012 5:19:50pm

re: #106 b_sharp

Ballsy woman.

Died of natural causes before she made it to trial.

108

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:20:33pm

re: #102 b_sharp

Oklahoma sounds like a place that should be in a musical.

I heard it gets hot in Africa.

109

Jack Burton Mon, May 7, 2012 5:22:34pm

re: #95 Gus

Tragedy has struck!

[Embedded content] Wow. What will the world do?

ZOMG!!111! Banana Republic ran out of Khakis!!

110

Lidane Mon, May 7, 2012 5:23:31pm

Hola Lizards!

Today was the official, final, last ever anything that I had to for grad school. Had my final presentation with my client this afternoon. Overall, I think it went well but we'll see. It's all over but the grades now.

Graduation is on Saturday. I have no idea what I'm going to do with myself until then aside from going to see The Avengers.

111

Stanghazi Mon, May 7, 2012 5:25:47pm

re: #110 Lidane

Hola Lizards!

Today was the official, final, last ever anything that I had to for grad school. Had my final presentation with my client this afternoon. Overall, I think it went well but we'll see. It's all over but the grades now.

Graduation is on Saturday. I have no idea what I'm going to do with myself until then aside from going to see The Avengers.

Congratulations - huge! My theory is the grades don't matter in the end its the paper. (I partied pretty hard tho, maybe that was my excuse)

112

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:25:56pm

Gah.

FOX NEWS HEADLINE: "Hillary Forgets Her Makeup" thkpr.gs/Ja3N8y #sexism (via @pourmecoffee)
— ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) May 8, 2012

Derp.

113

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:28:45pm

re: #108 Gus

I heard it gets hot in Africa.

No shit?

114

EdDantes Mon, May 7, 2012 5:29:55pm

re: #110 Lidane

Congrats!
/ you're finally a useful member of society.

115

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:30:32pm

Heck. She looks younger without make-up. She's a fine looking woman. More importantly she's been a hell of a Secretary of State. Freaking idiots.

116

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:31:24pm

re: #115 Gus

Heck. She looks younger without make-up. She's a fine looking woman. More importantly she's been a hell of a Secretary of State. Freaking idiots.

They can't figure out what she's done, so they attack how she looks.

117

Gus Mon, May 7, 2012 5:34:50pm

re: #116 b_sharp

They can't figure out what she's done, so they attack how she looks.

I know these dumb asses are always doing the "conservative women are better looking then liberal women" stupidity. SNADU... Situation Normal all Dumbed Up.

118

Eventual Carrion Mon, May 7, 2012 5:43:42pm

re: #87 Kragar

My Uncle's first wife's grandmother shot her husband on their 50th.

So is that the lead anniversary?

119

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 5:44:46pm

re: #118 RayFerd

So is that the lead anniversary?

Brilliant.

120

Eventual Carrion Mon, May 7, 2012 6:00:47pm

re: #119 b_sharp

Brilliant.

I never could keep those anniversaries straight.

121

b_sharp Mon, May 7, 2012 6:09:14pm

re: #120 RayFerd

I never could keep those anniversaries straight.

I'm coming up to my Oatmeal anniversary. Or maybe it's hide glue.

122

Larry A. Herzberg Mon, May 7, 2012 6:09:39pm

re: #44 bluecheese

Although Falk more closely alines with my own political beliefs (plus I'd love to have a women Governor), I voted for Barrett just simply cause he polls better against Walker. I'm pragmatic like that.

I tend to agree with your pragmatism, bluecheese. I watched the four Democratic candidates debate last Friday, and finally understood why Barrett had been the nominee last year. He may be a little conventional, but he handles himself well in a debate, and his more moderate image would seem to better match up against Walker's conservative dogmatism than Falk's Madison-centric image as a union pawn (unfair as that might be). I also like state Sen. Kathleen Vinehout's obsession with policy details, but she could be a valuable ally of a new governor in her current position, especially if the Democrats retake the state Senate.

123

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, May 7, 2012 7:42:17pm

re: #18 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Courtly love is a great source of amusement in the Arthurian RPG games. A sub-system that basically revolves around knights voluntarily doing fairly stupid (and often dangerous) activities simply to get a woman's attention. Who could often possibly already be married to someone else.

Oh, she has to be married to someone else. If you get married, you can't be lovers anymore. Marie of Champagne herself said so.

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