Donald Trump’s Whiplash on Wages

He was against high wages before he was for them
Politics • Views: 53,660
LifetimeStock / Shutterstock.com

That famous Donald Trump memory needs a reboot. Apparently, Donald Trump forgot (or more likely, is ignoring) that he was attacking Democrats for supporting higher wages. He stated unequivocally on November 12 that high wages are undermining US competitiveness against other nations.

So it’s rather surprising that he’s turned around and now claims we need higher wages.

What’s perhaps even more mind-blowing (or not, given how closely we here at LGF are following Trump’s tirades), is that we can expect the same people who were cheering him when he said wages were too high to continue cheering now that he’s saying they’re too low. Trump supporters will follow him regardless of the position he takes.

Does he think no one is going to remember the video of Trump saying wages were too high? Did he lie then? Or is he lying now? Or will Trump will say anything to any audience?

He’s a one-man Kang and Kodos.

Jump to bottom

345 comments
1
nines09  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:07:08am

To people who did and do more contortions than the Snake Woman at the Carney Freak Show, it’s easy. Real easy. Mind numbingly stupid and simple. They taught their base well. And now King Pimp is eating their lunch.

2
iossarian  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:13:27am

It’s getting a little uncanny how closely Trump’s modus operandi maps to Umberto Eco’s definition of fascism. This being a classic example of the acceptable internal inconsistency of a fascist worldview.

3
b.d.  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:14:52am

That video is a lie! Videos that don’t exist are the only truthful ones!

4
iossarian  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:16:35am

We have always been at war with lower wages.

5
Jack Burton  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:16:42am

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

6
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:21:51am
7
Khal Schlongo  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:22:17am

re: #2 iossarian

It’s getting a little uncanny how closely Trump’s modus operandi maps to Umberto Eco’s definition of fascism. This being a classic example of the acceptable internal inconsistency of a fascist worldview.

There’s a larger narrative at work here: it used to be that the (allegedly) smarter & more disciplined “party elites” would vet potential candidates. Yes, that process was often inept, corrupt and perpetuated longstanding injustices. However, that process was useful in that it tended to weed out freaks like Trump.

Many years ago, for my thesis, I interviewed an aging union organizer in Wisconsin about the impact of Tailgunner Joe McCarthy on his life. I’ll spare you the details (it was a thesis, after all, and in my youthful enthusiasm, I really dug into the minutiae) - but he sang a little ditty that comes to mind, now applicable to Trump:

“Nobody loves McCarthy but the peeeeeeple -
And we just love our Joe!”

8
bratwurst  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:26:10am

Bottom line: as long as he continues spewing bigotry, xenophobia and misogyny he will maintain much of his support regardless of what else he says.

9
Khal Schlongo  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:30:54am

Other tinpot dictators loves them some Trump too:

The bear looks somewhat embarassed by his passengers
10
Dr. Matt  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:32:12am
11
jaunte  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:37:46am

This idiot should not be in a public position of any kind, much less a prosecutor.

12
lawhawk  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:40:16am

re: #11 jaunte

Prosecutors now playing the part of the cops’ defense attorneys. And blaming the victim for looking older than he was? The cops barely looked at him for more than a few moments before they opened fire.

From the time they drove up to Rice to the time they fired was perhaps 2 seconds? Not enough time to recognize how old he was, let alone that he wasn’t carrying anything other than a toy gun. And then they spent little to no time trying to administer first aid.

The officers did everything wrong, but get to claim justified use of force because they felt threatened? The officers didn’t do anything right in the shooting, and they get away with killing Rice.

13
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:40:57am

FUCK

14
Eventual Carrion  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:41:19am

re: #2 iossarian

It’s getting a little uncanny how closely Trump’s modus operandi maps to Umberto Eco’s definition of fascism. This being a classic example of the acceptable internal inconsistency of a fascist worldview.

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia

15
jaunte  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:42:13am

re: #12 lawhawk

I bet it’s not policy to roll up so close to a live shooter.

16
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:44:23am

If the media outlets call trump out on lies and inconsistencies, they are punished: they get the DT cold shoulder and take a hit in the ratings.

And we get the shit piled on us higher and deeper

17
Unabogie  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:44:57am

re: #15 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I bet it’s not policy to roll up so close to a live shooter.

That’s what so infuriating about the case. If they thought it was an active shooter, why the hell did they drive right up to the guy with the gun? And then jump out, guns blazing? And then refuse to give first aid? And then throw the boy’s sister to the ground?

Nothing about this case is within policy, unless we’re talking Third Reich policies. Wait, are we talking Third Reich?

18
unproven innocence  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:47:29am

re: #17 Unabogie

Fourth maybe, but who’s counting.

19
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:48:02am

re: #16 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If the media outlets call trump out on lies and inconsistencies, they are punished: they get the DT cold shoulder and take a hit in the ratings.

And he says mean things about them on Twitter. That’s harsh.

20
Timothy Watson  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:48:03am

re: #15 jaunte

Prosecutor: Officers shooting of Rice fits “within active shooter policy”

Except without the “active” and “shooter” parts, of course

21
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:48:11am

re: #12 lawhawk

Prosecutors now playing the part of the cops’ defense attorneys. And blaming the victim for looking older than he was? The cops barely looked at him for more than a few moments before they opened fire.

From the time they drove up to Rice to the time they fired was perhaps 2 seconds? Not enough time to recognize how old he was, let alone that he wasn’t carrying anything other than a toy gun. And then they spent little to no time trying to administer first aid.

The officers did everything wrong, but get to claim justified use of force because they felt threatened? The officers didn’t do anything right in the shooting, and they get away with killing Rice.

Basically, if you don’t have a video of the unarmed victim running away from the cops and being gunned down, the cops will walk on self defense.

22
Timothy Watson  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:49:14am

re: #12 lawhawk

Prosecutors now playing the part of the cops’ defense attorneys. And blaming the victim for looking older than he was? The cops barely looked at him for more than a few moments before they opened fire.

From the time they drove up to Rice to the time they fired was perhaps 2 seconds? Not enough time to recognize how old he was, let alone that he wasn’t carrying anything other than a toy gun. And then they spent little to no time trying to administer first aid.

The officers did everything wrong, but get to claim justified use of force because they felt threatened? The officers didn’t do anything right in the shooting, and they get away with killing Rice.

And police are held to no objective basis when it comes to determining the appropriateness of them using force.

23
lawhawk  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:50:27am

re: #21 Big Beautiful Door

And even when you have video, someone will come out and claim that the suspect deserved to die because they somehow didn’t comply with the police instructions. Or as Kragar would point out (it’s perfectly fine for a Bundy nutter to point guns at cops/law enforcement, but if you’re a minority complaining about police brutality, you have no choice but to obey).

24
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:51:00am

re: #22 Timothy Watson

And police are held to no objective basis when it comes to determining the appropriateness of them using force.

Sure they are; they objectively have to testify that they thought the victim was holding a weapon or reaching for a weapon. A very stringent standard!/

25
Timothy Watson  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:51:22am

re: #21 Big Beautiful Door

Basically, if you don’t have a video of the unarmed victim running away from the cops and being gunned down, the cops will walk on self defense.

You might get a manslaughter conviction in that case.

Maybe.

26
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:51:30am
27
freetoken  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:51:49am

AP headline screams:

THE LATEST: CAMERAS SHOWED TAMIR RICE POINTING GUN AT PEOPLE

How many will only read the headline and move on?

28
No Country For Old Haters  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:52:41am
29
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:53:09am

ferret + mussolini

30
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:53:29am
31
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:53:38am

re: #25 Timothy Watson

You might get a manslaughter conviction in that case.

Maybe.

I’m hoping for a murder conviction in that S.C. case.

cnn.com

32
No Country For Old Haters  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:55:23am

re: #17 Unabogie

That’s what so infuriating about the case. If they thought it was an active shooter, why the hell did they drive right up to the guy with the gun? And then jump out, guns blazing? And then refuse to give first aid? And then throw the boy’s sister to the ground?

Nothing about this case is within policy, unless we’re talking Third Reich policies. Wait, are we talking Third Reich?

We’re getting there. As progressives try to move us into the 21st century, the awful regressives cling to terrible old ways, and they will take us to a very dark place if we let them.

33
Stanley Sea Toujours  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:56:00am

re: #17 Unabogie

That’s what so infuriating about the case. If they thought it was an active shooter, why the hell did they drive right up to the guy with the gun? And then jump out, guns blazing? And then refuse to give first aid? And then throw the boy’s sister to the ground?

Nothing about this case is within policy, unless we’re talking Third Reich policies. Wait, are we talking Third Reich?

They are lying. Straight to our faces. Again.

34
No Country For Old Haters  Dec 28, 2015 • 11:59:25am

re: #33 Stanley Sea Toujours

They are lying. Straight to our faces. Again.

And the wingnuts are claiming that the grand jury didn’t fall for the Liberal media that wants to lock up cops for something Conservatives see as being OK as long as it doesn’t happen to a white person.

35
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:00:34pm

re: #15 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I bet it’s not policy to roll up so close to a live shooter.

A huge issue in all of these cases is how thoroughly the deck is stacked in favor of the cops’ behavior being “justified”—whether’s it’s departmental policy, state law, or case law, the general theme is that so long as you are on duty, it’s ok.

36
retired cynic  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:02:00pm

re: #13 The Vicious Babushka

Watch out — You don’t need to fall!

37
ausador  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:04:55pm

Lawhawk

You should also have the Morning Joe video from the next day where Trump reiterated his “wages are too high” stance in response to a question from Mika.
(Mika’s question at about 6:45 of video)
Donald Trump on Debate, Putin, China, Minimum Wage

38
Dr. Matt  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:08:04pm

An “active shooter policy” in a state where open carry is legal and no shots were fired and there were no reports of shots fired. Ohio just proved that open-carry laws are a menace to society since police can’t tell the difference between good guys with a gun and bad guys with a gun.

39
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:09:13pm

re: #38 Dr. Matt

An “active shooter policy” in a state where open carry is legal and no shots were fired and there were no reports of shots fired. Ohio just proved that open-carry laws are a menace to society since police can’t tell the difference between good guys with a gun and bad guys with a gun.

No it’s OK to shoot the kid with the toy gun but don’t tread on me with my open carry.

//

40
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:09:47pm

re: #38 Dr. Matt

An “active shooter policy” in a state where open carry is legal and no shots were fired and there were no reports of shots fired. Ohio just proved that open-carry laws are a menace to society since police can’t tell the difference between good guys with a gun and bad guys with a gun.

The good guys are the white ones.

41
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:09:52pm
42
Dr. Matt  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:11:32pm

re: #41 blueraven

The redneck racist actually goes for his weapon and is still alive to pass on his fucked up genome. White privilege.

43
lawhawk  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:12:15pm
44
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:13:01pm

re: #41 blueraven

A police officer was forced to step in, as one pro-Confederate attendee reached for his weapon as tensions escalated. Extra officers had been drafted in for the day.

I am afraid that it is just a matter of time before something like this really gets out of hand…

45
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:14:27pm

re: #43 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I don’t see how the PD doesn’t get hammered for negligent hiring in the forthcoming civil lawsuit.

46
I Would Prefer Not To  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:16:13pm

re: #44 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

A police officer was forced to step in, as one pro-Confederate attendee reached for his weapon as tensions escalated. Extra officers had been drafted in for the day.

I am afraid that it is just a matter of time before something like this really gets out of hand…

When idiots are reaching for their guns it already has. No one is hurt, this time.

47
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:18:03pm

Wingnut response to the Cleveland verdict==>

Click to Reveal
48
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:18:21pm

re: #38 Dr. Matt

An “active shooter policy” in a state where open carry is legal and no shots were fired and there were no reports of shots fired. Ohio just proved that open-carry laws are a menace to society since police can’t tell the difference between good guys with a gun and bad guys with a gun.

Good guys with guns can turn red in the sun. See, easy!/

49
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:18:25pm

re: #43 lawhawk

I hope the family brings a wrongful death suit against the officer involved as well as the entire police department.

50
CuriousLurker  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:19:07pm

re: #6 Nyet

Hey Sergey, if you’re still here I just saw the story below via one of my boss’ Twitter feeds. The main guy in the story is a ginger with a beard, but thankfully (hopefully) he doesn’t poop on floors. It even has a guy named Sergei in it. The whole story is just… weird:

Inside the weird world of cryonics

If you travel to the 15th-century monastery town of Sergiyev Posad on the outskirts of Moscow, drive down a couple of dirt roads and take a sharp left after the pink house with a giant hammer-and-sickle flag out front, you’ll see an unassuming green gate with signs warning of a guard dog and 24-hour video surveillance.

Through that gate, you will enter a different world. Inside a large white hangar are two giant vats filled with the brains and bodies of three-dozen humans from nine different countries and a menagerie of pets (cats, dogs and birds). Watching over them is Danila Medvedev, a 35-year-old who believes Russia will soon outpace the US in the world of anti-ageing, biomedicine and the science of living for ever. He is one of the founders of KrioRus, Russia’s first cryonics organisation. […]

Part of KrioRus’s competitive advantage lies in its pricing. Unlike Alcor, which stores its bodies in individual containers, KrioRus takes a socialist-inspired approach and stores them in giant communal vacuum flasks. As a result, at KrioRus, the cryopreservation procedure costs $36,000 for a full body or $12,000 for just a head. At Alcor it costs $200,000 for a full body and $80,000 for a head. (Alcor advocates that clients pay through life insurance.) […]

ft.com

51
Tigger2  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:20:06pm

re: #41 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Why didn’t the cop shot him he was reaching for a gun, Oh wait he’s white I forgot.

52
Shimshon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:21:07pm

Reap the rewards of a failed education system combined with a consumer culture where you are nothing unless you get rich and famous, America!

53
FormerDirtDart  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:21:31pm

First thing I noticed was the Treason Flag, under what is likely one of those mounted singing trout things

54
Tigger2  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:23:02pm

re: #52 Shimshon

Reap the rewards of a failed education system combined with a consumer culture where you are nothing unless you get rich and famous, America!

I don’t think the education system failed on its own I think the Republicans sabotaged it.

55
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:23:27pm

re: #47 The Vicious Babushka

Wingnut response to the Cleveland verdict==>

[Embedded content]

I’d like to get off the planet now.

56
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:24:02pm
57
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:24:16pm

re: #46 I Would Prefer Not To

When idiots are reaching for their guns it already has. No one is hurt, this time.

This time…

58
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:26:05pm

re: #56 Aunty Entity Dragon

Prosecutors are now telling reporters that Tamir Rice wore size 36 pants, as evidence that he looked older than his 12 years.

Rule one: don’t wear a hoodie

Rule 2: don’t wear pants

59
Eventual Carrion  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:26:05pm

re: #41 blueraven

[Embedded content]

But the gun isn’t to intimidate opposition. Just to exercise their rights, to intimidate others to not exercise their rights.

60
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:26:55pm
61
Eventual Carrion  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:27:07pm

re: #41 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Good thing that guy wasn’t a 12 year old black kid with a toy gun.

62
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:27:26pm

re: #59 Eventual Carrion

But the gun isn’t to intimidate opposition. Just to exercise their rights, to intimidate others to not exercise their rights.

It is there for the same reason they raised the Confederate flag over the state capitols in the 1960’s: to let them uppity folks know who is in charge.

63
FormerDirtDart  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:29:35pm

“The Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, the United States Attorney’s Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been monitoring the investigation that has been conducted regarding the death of Tamir Rice on Nov. 22, 2014. We will continue our independent review of this matter, assess all available materials and determine what actions are appropriate, given the strict burdens and requirements imposed by applicable federal civil rights laws.

“Additionally, the Department of Justice continues in its efforts to pursue ongoing and comprehensive reform pursuant to the consent decree in the federal, civil pattern and practice case filed before Chief Judge Solomon Oliver in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Ohio.”

64
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:30:50pm
65
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:32:02pm
66
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:32:05pm
67
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:33:09pm

re: #35 Mike Lamb

A huge issue in all of these cases is how thoroughly the deck is stacked in favor of the cops’ behavior being “justified”—whether’s it’s departmental policy, state law, or case law, the general theme is that so long as you are on duty, it’s ok.

I provoked a minor firestorm on FB, commenting on the NPR story about the Tamir Rice ruling with my proposal to automatically jail cops who shoot someone who turns out to be unarmed. It just seems like there’s no downside to shooting anyone who makes you feel even remotely threatened. MAYBE you have to move someplace else and get a new job, but do you think for a moment that, for example, the guy who shot Michael Brown couldn’t get a job with somebody like Joe Arpaio in a second?

68
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:33:12pm

re: #64 Aunty Entity Dragon

We’ve seen this before.

#MichaelBrown

69
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:33:19pm

My. God.

Shooting was good policy.

I can’t even.

70
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:34:05pm

re: #60 Aunty Entity Dragon

The woman also shouldn’t have worn that skirt, etc.

//

71
jaunte  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:34:16pm
72
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:36:06pm

re: #69 Aunty Entity Dragon

[Embedded content]

My. God.

Shooting was good policy.

I can’t even.

This is their justification for that:

73
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:36:46pm

If anybody wants to flame away, have at it…

But I am going to say now that the criminal justice system, as well as many of the employees thereof, are enemies of the American people.

74
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:36:51pm

re: #71 jaunte

It’s OK, cops weren’t scared.

//

75
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:36:53pm

re: #67 Blind Frog Belly White

I provoked a minor firestorm on FB, commenting on the NPR story about the Tamir Rice ruling with my proposal to automatically jail cops who shoot someone who turns out to be unarmed. It just seems like there’s no downside to shooting anyone who makes you feel even remotely threatened. MAYBE you have to move someplace else and get a new job, but do you think for a moment that, for example, the guy who shot Michael Brown couldn’t get a job with somebody like Joe Arpaio in a second?

Maybe not jail, but how in the world can someone argue (as the prosecutor apparently is) that killing an unarmed 12 year old was correct under established policy? Just to repeat…they killed an unarmed 12 year old. And for emphasis…they killed an unarmed 12 year old. HOW THE FUCK CAN THAT BE THE RIGHT RESULT?

76
lawhawk  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:37:10pm

Speaking of folks who have loose grasp on reality, here comes Mike Huckabee now claiming he wasn’t protecting/backing Josh Duggar. He was just supporting the Duggar family against claims that the family was engaged in inappropriate and illegal activities. And he supported Josh too:

During an interview with Iowa radio host Simon Conway, Mike Huckabee was asked about how he could continue to stand by Josh Duggar of after he fell from grace after his child molestation scandal broke. Huckabee argued that he never actually defended the oldest son in the 19 Kids and Counting family, but rather the evangelical values the Duggars preached throughout their former show.

“I really didn’t support Josh, I supported his parents, if you’ll go back and look at what I said,” Huckabee stated. “There’s no support for what he did.”

Following revelations that Duggar molested five young girls, including two of his own sisters, Huckabee prominently issued statements in defense of the family. At the time, Huckabee attributed the story’s buzz to media sensationalism, argued that Duggar’s actions were “inexcusable” but not “unforgivable,” and that “good people make mistakes and do regrettable and even disgusting things.”

77
nines09  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:38:47pm

I have a badge. I’m a cop. I get paid. By you. I can kill you and walk. Any questions?

78
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:40:32pm

re: #76 lawhawk

Speaking of folks who have loose grasp on reality, here comes Mike Huckabee now claiming he wasn’t protecting/backing Josh Duggar. He was just supporting the Duggar family against claims that the family was engaged in inappropriate and illegal activities. And he supported Josh too:

I didn’t support Josh—I just supported the people/infrastructure that enabled and covered up his behavior…

79
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:41:11pm
80
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:43:39pm

re: #71 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Too pale to shoot.

81
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:44:01pm

Rage Furby just ain’t right in the head, but so predictable…

82
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:47:28pm

And for the idiots out there arguing that the officers couldn’t tell that it was a fake gun…ok, fine, let’s go with that…that’s why you don’t rush in like Paul Fucking Blart and start shooting.

83
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:47:36pm
84
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:47:52pm

This is what I am coming to myself. The system is irretrievably broken.

85
KGxvi  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:48:43pm

re: #64 Aunty Entity Dragon

Begin lawyerly rant:

There is an absolute conflict of interest when it comes to local district attorneys bringing charges against police officers. All evidence that DA’s rely on is obtained by the police. Most DA’s that I’ve known basically consider themselves part of “law enforcement.” DA’s and the police, by the nature of their jobs and the criminal justice system have to have a good working relationship. So, when it comes to prosecuting a crime allegedly committed by a police officer, the DA is going to be biased toward the cop, it’s a natural reaction - we want to think best of those who we work with and who we rely on in the course of our jobs.

DA’s really should have no role in potential cases against a police officer within their jurisdiction.

End lawyerly rant.

86
Mike Lamb  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:50:54pm

re: #83 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Wait…what? How does this genius explain John Crawford?

87
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:51:29pm

re: #84 Aunty Entity Dragon

This is what I am coming to myself. The system is irretrievably broken.

[Embedded content]

I understand the sentiment. If I were black, I’d probably see it that way. As it is, I’m REAL close to seeing it that way.

I keep hearing, “You can’t judge cops unless you’ve been one”, which seems to be pervasive among cops and a lot of non-cops. Where did THAT idea come from? They work for us. WE give THEM the authority do kill in our names, and you’re telling me we can’t judge whether they’ve misused that authority?

FUCK THAT NOISE!!!

88
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:51:55pm

re: #85 KGxvi

Begin lawyerly rant:

There is an absolute conflict of interest when it comes to local district attorneys bringing charges against police officers. All evidence that DA’s rely on is obtained by the police. Most DA’s that I’ve known basically consider themselves part of “law enforcement.” DA’s and the police, by the nature of their jobs and the criminal justice system have to have a good working relationship. So, when it comes to prosecuting a crime allegedly committed by a police officer, the DA is going to be biased toward the cop, it’s a natural reaction - we want to think best of those who we work with and who we rely on in the course of our jobs.

DA’s really should have no role in potential cases against a police officer within their jurisdiction.

End lawyerly rant.

That was the case in Ferguson as well.

89
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:52:58pm

re: #85 KGxvi

Begin lawyerly rant:

There is an absolute conflict of interest when it comes to local district attorneys bringing charges against police officers. All evidence that DA’s rely on is obtained by the police. Most DA’s that I’ve known basically consider themselves part of “law enforcement.” DA’s and the police, by the nature of their jobs and the criminal justice system have to have a good working relationship. So, when it comes to prosecuting a crime allegedly committed by a police officer, the DA is going to be biased toward the cop, it’s a natural reaction - we want to think best of those who we work with and who we rely on in the course of our jobs.

DA’s really should have no role in potential cases against a police officer within their jurisdiction.

End lawyerly rant.

I’d argue that no DA can be assumed not to be irretrievably prejudiced in an officer involved shooting.

90
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:54:56pm
91
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:55:25pm

[Graham] said on his Facebook page Dec. 21 that the spending bill that passed Congress Dec. 18 “is an example of why I have resigned from the Republican Party and declared myself Independent. I have no hope in the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, or Tea Party to do what is best for America.”

only i am conservative enough for america, and i am the only person that knows what it truly means to be conservative and american. i will vote for myself to lead a truly freedom loving government that will make me independent of all you other 330 million moochers who are ruining this country for me

in closing, let me say fuck you and get off my lawn. god bless me!

92
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:57:34pm

re: #83 Ace-o-aces

93
KGxvi  Dec 28, 2015 • 12:58:22pm

re: #88 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

That was the case in Ferguson as well.

As long as it’s handled at the local level, it’s always going to be the case. I think I said after the Michael Brown case that there should be a division within the state level AG’s office to handle investigations and prosecutions of local police.

re: #84 Aunty Entity Dragon

If we abolish the legal system (I assume he means the criminal justice system vs the civil side, but who knows), what do we replace it with? Trial by combat? Pistols at 20 paces? Lynch mobs? The system is hurting right now, yes, for a lot of different reasons - court funding is being reduced in many states, public defenders get less funding than district attorneys, cops (often) look at DA’s as allies and PD’s as enemies, juries will tend to think “if he’s on trial he must be guilty”, and all that is just the tip of the iceberg. But what’s the alternative?

94
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:00:51pm

re: #93 KGxvi

If we abolish the legal system (I assume he means the criminal justice system vs the civil side, but who knows), what do we replace it with? Trial by combat? Pistols at 20 paces? Lynch mobs?

Not a long-term thinker, that guy.

95
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:06:16pm

re: #93 KGxvi

As long as it’s handled at the local level, it’s always going to be the case. I think I said after the Michael Brown case that there should be a division within the state level AG’s office to handle investigations and prosecutions of local police.

If we abolish the legal system (I assume he means the criminal justice system vs the civil side, but who knows), what do we replace it with? Trial by combat? Pistols at 20 paces? Lynch mobs? The system is hurting right now, yes, for a lot of different reasons - court funding is being reduced in many states, public defenders get less funding than district attorneys, cops (often) look at DA’s as allies and PD’s as enemies, juries will tend to think “if he’s on trial he must be guilty”, and all that is just the tip of the iceberg. But what’s the alternative?

The current system is run by elites for the protection of elites. It does not protect us. It protects power and money.

If you have money and are the right color, you will be looked after. If you are part of the system, you will be looked after. “We do not second guess cops” …not even cops who murder on video. (also see the Fullerton incident where a homeless man was beat to death on video)

No other profession in America gets that kind of consideration… not even the military.

I don’t know what the better system will be…but this sure as fuck isn’t it. We had a damned revolution against the Brits for less.

96
Charles Johnson  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:07:43pm

What the fuck, Chuck.

97
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:09:11pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

[Embedded content]

By next week, Rice will have murdered Chuck, who magically got better.

98
wrenchwench  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:09:44pm
99
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:10:09pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

Embedded Image

Oh yeah, you forgot that Chuck decided that since there were some robberies in the area using airsoft pistols after the shooting that Tamir must have been involved because reasons…..

100
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:10:59pm

We’ve been there.

Stand up, ones who are branded by the curse,
All the world’s starving and enslaved!
Our outraged minds are boiling,
Ready to lead us into a deadly fight.
We will destroy this world of violence
Down to the foundations, and then
We will build our new world.
He who was nothing will become everything!

What followed was usually much, much worse than what had preceded it.

101
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:11:04pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

Embedded Image

Chuck’s all about protecting the immigrants now…..

102
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:11:31pm

re: #99 Ace-o-aces

Oh yeah, you forgot that Chuck decided that since there where some robberies in the area using airsoft pistols after the shooting that Tamir must have been involved because reasons…..

Must have been Tamir’s criminal “associates” the prosecutor was talking about…

103
unproven innocence  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:12:09pm

Family: Charges unlikely in killing of Tamir Rice

Tamir’s family has repeatedly complained and has questioned why the case has dragged on. Tamir was shot Nov. 22, 2014, and died early the next day during surgery.

Only now am I learning of that last bit. Thought it was reported that he’d died at the park.

104
Unabogie  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:12:50pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

Embedded Image

That man is honestly deranged.

105
Ace-o-aces  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:15:00pm
106
KingKenrod  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:15:53pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

Embedded Image

He’s obsessed with showing that black victims deserve what they get, to rationalize it. Witness his obsession with getting Michael Brown’s juvenile records.

107
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:17:10pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

Embedded Image

Send that tweet to the Rice family lawyers along with links to web sites, Facebook page and all the other current crap CCJ is going through legally. Also send that to the lawyers at Gawker and the Abortion Foundation. Maybe nothing would come of it, but then you never know. If it keeps adding to the case against him it might be worth it.

Oh I so wish there was a way to shut Chucky up. That little assclown needs to be taken down. I hope his trials all turn against him and the economic impact squashes the little fucker like a bug.

108
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:19:25pm

I feared for my life as I was driving home. So if I had a gun I would be justified in shooting the icy road.

109
unproven innocence  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:21:17pm

re: #108 The Vicious Babushka

Only if it’s black ice. /

110
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:21:21pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

@BroderickGreer

I honestly don’t know what it will take for White America to - with impunity - stop killing black people.

4:05 PM - 28 Dec 2015

I certainly understand the frustration, but I cringe when it is worded as “White America” is the problem.

I’m White and feel as frustrated as anyone. I too want a complete overhaul of policing in this country. This is not a Black and White thing. It is a police thing that ALL people should want changed. I hope there is that simple understanding.

111
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:21:31pm

re: #108 The Vicious Babushka

I feared for my life as I was driving home. So if I had a gun I would be justified in shooting the icy road.

Only if you are a cop.

112
b_sharp  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:22:04pm

re: #108 The Vicious Babushka

I feared for my life as I was driving home. So if I had a gun I would be justified in shooting the icy road.

Put studs on your tires & stab the ice.

Oh, wait, that isn’t covered by stand your ground, is it?

113
FormerDirtDart  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:22:38pm

This arrest is an obvious suppression of Christianity

114
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:23:52pm

re: #110 ObserverArt

That’s bullshit language. All racial generalizations are bullshit.

115
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:24:04pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

Embedded Image

Tamir Rice, Michael Brown - what’s the difference? They all look alike, right?
///////

116
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:24:34pm

Sources in the Trump camp say they will soon launch a major ad blitz that could cost at least $2 million a week, and possibly several times that.

The initial wave of ads will focus on Trump’s vision and his stance on key issues—no bio spots necessary for the celebrity candidate—but that could change if any GOP rivals target him with negative commercials. “If you attack Trump, he will attack you 10 times as hard,” an adviser says. “We will not allow any attack to go unanswered.”

according to the logic of this campaign so far, trump launching a positive ad campaign that highlights his policies on key issues should absolutely destroy him

117
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:25:58pm

re: #110 ObserverArt

I certainly understand the frustration, but I cringe when it is worded as “White America” is the problem.

I’m White and feel as frustrated as anyone. I too want a complete overhaul of policing in this country. This is not a Black and White thing. It is a police thing that ALL people should want changed. I hope there is that simple understanding.

No, it really IS a black and white thing.

118
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:26:47pm

re: #113 FormerDirtDart

This probably won’t be treated as a hate crime. Because atheism.

119
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:27:23pm

re: #117 Blind Frog Belly White

No, it really IS a black and white thing.

Care to explain your thinking?

120
TedStriker  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:28:21pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

re: #110 ObserverArt

I certainly understand the frustration, but I cringe when it is worded as “White America” is the problem.

I’m White and feel as frustrated as anyone. I too want a complete overhaul of policing in this country. This is not a Black and White thing. It is a police thing that ALL people should want changed. I hope there is that simple understanding.

121
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:29:29pm

re: #113 FormerDirtDart

This arrest is an obvious suppression of Christianity

[Embedded content]

Police said that evidence suggested the victim had been pregnant.

Pro-life.

122
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:29:55pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

[Embedded content]

Interesting choice of words there, Chuck: “the Cleveland police department agrees”.
So, now we know where justice begins and ends in Chuck’s world.

123
wrenchwench  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:30:45pm

re: #110 ObserverArt

I certainly understand the frustration, but I cringe when it is worded as “White America” is the problem.

I’m White and feel as frustrated as anyone. I too want a complete overhaul of policing in this country. This is not a Black and White thing. It is a police thing that ALL people should want changed. I hope there is that simple understanding.

You can be as frustrated, but may not be as afraid for yourself, personally.

124
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:30:50pm

One of the statements the prosecutor made sounds exactly like the study someone mentioned not too long ago. The study showed that whites, even cops, think that blacks are older than they actually are, but something like six years. You would hope cops to be more rational than that, but if they’re not going to pay a price for misjudging, then they aren’t going to learn.

125
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:31:08pm

re: #122 Backwoods_Sleuth

Interesting choice of words there, Chuck: “the Cleveland police department agrees”.
So, now we know where justice begins and ends in Chuck’s world.

UpChuck was brought in as a special Grand Jury consultant, I guess.

///

126
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:31:17pm

re: #114 Nyet

That’s bullshit language. All racial generalizations are bullshit.

Except the time when people who look like him are being murdered with impunity by people who don’t?

You don’t think that might cause that kind of language? Or are you suggesting this?

Link

127
Eventual Carrion  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:31:54pm

re: #113 FormerDirtDart

This arrest is an obvious suppression of Christianity

[Embedded content]

And the victim may have been pregnant. Religious fanatics are fucking insane. Surprised she didn’t behead her too.

128
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:32:03pm

re: #123 wrenchwench

You can be as frustrated, but may not be as afraid for yourself, personally.

Great observation. Which white person here is afraid of being shot by a cop?

129
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:32:22pm
130
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:32:34pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

What the fuck, Chuck.

[Embedded content]

So according to UpChuck Tamir Rice robbed an immigrant business owner with his toy gun?

131
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:33:11pm

re: #126 harlequinade

I’m suggesting that “White America” doesn’t kill anyone because like any other racial group, whites are not a monolith.

If you are against “blacks do this or that” language, you should also be against “whites do this or that” language.

132
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:34:04pm

re: #116 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

I swear I read this as:

The initial wave of ads Ad naseum will focus on Trump’s vision and his stance on key issues—no bio spots necessary for the celebrity candidate—but that could change if any GOP rivals target him with negative commercials. “If you attack Trump, he will attack you 10 times as hard,” an adviser says. “We will not allow any attack to go unanswered.”

133
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:34:13pm

re: #131 Nyet

I’m suggesting that “White America” doesn’t kill anyone because like any other racial group, whites are not a monolith.

If you are against “black do this or that” language, you should also be against “whites do this or that” language.

All lives matter? Not all men? Not my circus, not my monkeys?

134
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:34:35pm

re: #133 harlequinade

You’re not making much sense. Try to be more coherent.

135
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:35:57pm

re: #110 ObserverArt

Let me expand: This kind of ‘shoot first, ask questions never’ with no consequence is what happens to those whom society in general doesn’t give a shit about, and the people in charge of shitgiving are we white people. For all that everyone has a vote, we still completely dominate the society and the culture, and our (on average) belief that black lives are not as valuable as white lives dominates how our society works.

Then there are age-old beliefs and reactions, like the ‘Black Man As Rapist’ and ‘Black Men Are Superhumanly Strong’ beliefs that inform people’s responses and actions. Even black police buy into those, so even if a black officer shoots an unarmed black citizen, it doesn’t mean it’s not about race.

And we, White America, are still dominant, and the response we give when something like this happens? Loudest will be the voices condemning the dead, followed by those telling us how hard it is to be a cop. Then there will be lots of handwringing on the part of the rest of us, and no action.

Imagine if you were black and looking at this: How could you NOT see it as Black and White?

136
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:37:56pm

re: #134 Nyet

You’re not making much sense. Try to be more coherent.

Sorry, massah. Let’s try again.

What you’re saying is the equivalent of “All lives matter” and “Not all men.” Allowing you to wash your hands of the whole “Still living with the privilege, but these people need to get over themselves and see my policing of their tone as actual support in their time of need.”

Is that clearer?

137
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:39:24pm

re: #136 harlequinade

Sorry, massah. Let’s try again.

What you’re saying is the equivalent of “All lives matter” and “Not all men.” Allowing you to wash your hands of the whole “Still living with the privilege, but these people need to get over themselves and see my policing of their tone as actual support in their time of need.”

Is that clearer?

Well, it’s not at all analogous. There’s a difference between recognizing white racism as a driving force and blaming a racial group.

138
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:39:32pm
139
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:39:48pm

QFT

re: #135 Blind Frog Belly White

Let me expand: This kind of ‘shoot first, ask questions never’ with no consequence is what happens to those whom society in general doesn’t give a shit about, and the people in charge of shitgiving are we white people. For all that everyone has a vote, we still completely dominate the society and the culture, and our (on average) belief that black lives are not as valuable as white lives dominates how our society works.

Then there are age-old beliefs and reactions, like the ‘Black Man As Rapist’ and ‘Black Men Are Superhumanly Strong’ beliefs that inform people’s responses and actions. Even black police buy into those, so even if a black officer shoots an unarmed black citizen, it doesn’t mean it’s not about race.

And we, White America, are still dominant, and the response we give when something like this happens? Loudest will be the voices condemning the dead, followed by those telling us how hard it is to be a cop. Then there will be lots of handwringing on the part of the rest of us, and no action.

Imagine if you were black and looking at this: How could you NOT see it as Black and White?

140
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:40:48pm

re: #137 Nyet

Well, it’s not at all analogous. There’s a difference between recognizing white racism as a driving force and blaming a racial group.

#notallwhitepeople Gotcha.

Good luck with that.

141
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:41:18pm

re: #123 wrenchwench

You can be as frustrated, but may not be as afraid for yourself, personally.

I understand that. But the way he worded it makes me and other sympathetic Whites a part of the people that condone these shootings.

And to be truthful, I know I don’t have the apprehension a person of color has regarding the police, but I don’t trust and respect them either. They can shoot anyone of any color and get away with it. That can not be forgotten. Didn’t a young white college kid that was high but unarmed just get shot and killed the other day and it too is very questionable?

It is about the words. All the rest I agree with. It is dangerous wording and it can incite. If it incites someone to shoot a white person because all whites are in on the fix, what is accomplished? This shit is getting to powder keg status and could very easily blow up. If whites are the problem what are we going to see a complete us versus them race war?

142
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:41:28pm

re: #140 harlequinade

#notallwhitepeople Gotcha.

Good luck with that.

Incoherent again. Meh.

143
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:45:33pm

re: #142 Nyet

Incoherent again. Meh.

Must. Resist. Fry. Cartoon.

You should try harder on your comprehension if you can’t see that you’re saying “Not All White People” and using that as a shield.

Or you’re using that lack of comprehension as a tool of denial. I think I’m going to go with this one as Blind is saying exactly the same thing as me, except with a more conciliatory tone. I’m still too full of bile to be at that spot yet. But if denial is working for you, you keep on doing that

144
BeachDem  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:46:18pm

re: #34 No Schlong For Old Haters

And the wingnuts are claiming that the grand jury didn’t fall for the Liberal media that wants to lock up cops for something Conservatives see as being OK as long as it doesn’t happen to a white person.

Ah yes, that old canard about the Liberal Media. Headlines on Cleveland dot com immediately after the murder of Tamir Rice:

11/24/2014
Lawyer representing Tamir Rice’s family defended boy’s mom in drug trafficking case

11/24/2014
Buckeye Firearms Association Chairman calls Tamir Rice shooting ‘legitimate’

11/25/2014
Tamir Rice’s neighborhood has history of gangs, violence

11/26/2014
Tamir Rice’s father has history of domestic violence

Then in an article on 12/1/2014, they described the murderous cop:

Neighbors describe Tim Loehmann as quiet and respectful. He grew up attending Catholic schools, eventually enrolling in Benedictine High School on Cleveland’s East Side….

and

He also played trumpet in the school’s marching band and was in the school’s German Club, Fred Loehmann said…

and

The younger Loehmann began his policing career in Independence in 2012, but he soon grew tired of the slow pace of suburban policing, his father said.

Yeah, that damned Liberal Media…

145
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:46:32pm

re: #143 harlequinade

Must. Resist. Fry. Cartoon.

You should try harder on your comprehension if you can’t see that you’re saying “Not All White People” and using that as a shield.

Or you’re using that lack of comprehension as a tool of denial. I think I’m going to go with this one as Blind is saying exactly the same thing as me, except with a more conciliatory tone. I’m still too full of bile to be at that spot yet. But if denial is working for you, you keep on doing that

If you think that spouting a bunch of twitter/tumblr memes is a good defense for bullshit rhetoric, think again.

146
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:47:13pm

re: #137 Nyet

Well, it’s not at all analogous. There’s a difference between recognizing white racism as a driving force and blaming a racial group.

Sergey, the thing is, this will never change until the people in charge - i.e. White America - change it. Sure not every white person supports the status quo, but we’re the only ones who have the power to change it.

147
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:50:01pm

re: #128 Belafon

Great observation. Which white person here is afraid of being shot by a cop?

Me. I don’t trust them. Are my chances as high as an African American, a Hispanic, a Muslim…or anyone with dark skin and ‘other’ qualities? Of course not. But my chances are not zero.

Here is the thing. If I get pulled over by a cop and am angry and say something they don’t like and we are out a lonely road with no one around they could shoot me and chances are damn good they could get away with it.

Why would I think that way? Because if we do not change the police departments and their thinking everyone has their chances increase.

I am not downplaying the racial aspects of these cases. I also caution no one needs to ramp up the racial aspects to the point of bad shit happening.

148
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:50:28pm

re: #145 Nyet

And if you think policing tone and picking over language is a great method of change, you’re further behind the curve than I thought possible.

149
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:52:45pm

re: #141 ObserverArt

I understand that. But the way he worded it makes me and other sympathetic Whites a part of the people that condone these shootings.

And to be truthful, I know I don’t have the apprehension a person of color has regarding the police, but I don’t trust and respect them either. They can shoot anyone of any color and get away with it. That can not be forgotten. Didn’t a young white college kid that was high but unarmed just get shot and killed the other day and it too is very questionable?

It is about the words. All the rest I agree with. It is dangerous wording and it can incite. If it incites someone to shoot a white person because all whites are in on the fix, what is accomplished? This shit is getting to powder keg status and could very easily blow up. If whites are the problem what are we going to see a complete us versus them race war?

I agree with you. This shit is definitely not all whites. But it definitely impacts all blacks. Were I a black person, how do I decide who are the people that don’t want to hurt me?

150
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:53:12pm

re: #146 Blind Frog Belly White

I am well aware of the power differential. And of the white people who don’t want it to change. Just as I am aware of white people that do. How about not lumping everyone together?

151
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:54:05pm

re: #148 harlequinade

And if you think policing tone and picking over language is a great method of change, you’re further behind the curve than I thought possible.

“Policing tone”, there goes another meme.

Picking over language is what we do at LGF.

152
FormerDirtDart  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:54:34pm
153
wrenchwench  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:54:46pm

re: #147 ObserverArt

I am not downplaying the racial aspects of these cases. I also caution no one needs to ramp up the racial aspects to the point of bad shit happening.

Some people (IMHO, legitimately) feel the need to ramp up the racial aspects until white people quit saying it’s not a race thing. That guy whose tweet I posted is a clergyman, and one of the mellowest Tweeters.

154
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:56:27pm

re: #147 ObserverArt

I also caution no one needs to ramp up the racial aspects to the point of bad shit happening.

But bad shit is happening.

155
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:57:02pm

re: #135 Blind Frog Belly White

Let me expand: This kind of ‘shoot first, ask questions never’ with no consequence is what happens to those whom society in general doesn’t give a shit about, and the people in charge of shitgiving are we white people. For all that everyone has a vote, we still completely dominate the society and the culture, and our (on average) belief that black lives are not as valuable as white lives dominates how our society works.

Then there are age-old beliefs and reactions, like the ‘Black Man As Rapist’ and ‘Black Men Are Superhumanly Strong’ beliefs that inform people’s responses and actions. Even black police buy into those, so even if a black officer shoots an unarmed black citizen, it doesn’t mean it’s not about race.

And we, White America, are still dominant, and the response we give when something like this happens? Loudest will be the voices condemning the dead, followed by those telling us how hard it is to be a cop. Then there will be lots of handwringing on the part of the rest of us, and no action.

Imagine if you were black and looking at this: How could you NOT see it as Black and White?

I understand. I have from the beginning. All I am saying is that could be worded in a way that is not as likely to inflame. I’ve done my explanation in another comment. I stand by it.

And does not the comment you made about Black police think that way say it is a police problem and not strictly a White America issue?

156
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:57:50pm

re: #154 harlequinade

But bad shit is happening.

Do we need to add to it?

157
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:57:57pm

re: #150 Nyet

I am well aware of the power differential. And of the white people who don’t want it to change. Just as I am aware of white people that do. How about not lumping everyone together?

So, we lump all black people together, which makes them a nice, easy target, because it doesn’t matter which one we shoot.

But black people must only criticize the particular white people who are the problem, not all white people who benefit from the privilege of being white while making them bear the burden of being black?

Gosh, that seems fair. You concern is noted.

158
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:59:09pm

re: #151 Nyet

Your “picking over language” is denying a Person of Colour their anger at a time when a white man has murdered a child.

If you feel the need to do that at this time, then I’d have to ask why? What do you get out of questioning that anger now? Do you feel this isn’t the time for that anger? Do you think that, even as another person of colour is killed with impunity, we should think about how our language comes across to white people who hear it?

159
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:59:20pm

re: #155 ObserverArt

I understand. I have from the beginning. All I am saying is that could be worded in a way that is not as likely to inflame. I’ve done my explanation in another comment. I stand by it.

And does not the comment you made about Black police think that way say it is a police problem and not strictly a White America issue?

Who are the black police working for? And where did they get the idea that their fellow blacks are less valuable?

160
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 1:59:30pm

re: #157 Blind Frog Belly White

So, we lump all black people together

I don’t. You do? Are you a racist?

161
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:00:07pm

re: #158 harlequinade

Your “picking over language” is denying a Person of Colour their anger at a time when a white man has murdered a child.

If you feel the need to do that at this time, then I’d have to ask why? What do you get out of questioning that anger now? Do you feel this isn’t the time for that anger? Do you think that, even as another person of colour is killed with impunity, we should think about how our language comes across to white people who hear it?

I always question bullshit rhetoric, sorry.

162
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:00:50pm

re: #160 Nyet

I don’t. You do? Are you a racist?

I live in, and benefit from a society that DOES lump all black people together. Pretending otherwise is nonsense.

163
wrenchwench  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:01:53pm

re: #151 Nyet

“Policing tone”, there goes another meme.

Picking over language is what we do at LGF.

Picking over language is a big part of this issue. LGF has not dealt with it sufficiently, I think. We could, if we focus on it from several perspectives.

164
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:02:06pm

re: #162 Blind Frog Belly White

I live in, and benefit from a society that DOES lump all black people together. Pretending otherwise is nonsense.

And you call it out as bullshit rhetoric, right?

165
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:02:57pm

re: #148 harlequinade

And if you think policing tone and picking over language is a great method of change, you’re further behind the curve than I thought possible.

That is not the point at all.

No one said changing the language from White America is to blame is going to change the problem. But there is no reason to add to the problem. That is the point.

166
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:03:00pm

re: #162 Blind Frog Belly White

I live in, and benefit from a society that DOES lump all black people together. Pretending otherwise is nonsense.

Where I grew up in Gary, Indiana, it just took one black family on the block to send all the whites skedaddling to the suburbs. Real estate agents noticed this and made sure that the first black family on the block fit all the stereotypes so the whites would sell out at a loss…

Hard to fight against decades and decades of this sort of attitude and behavior when it is financially rewarded.

167
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:04:49pm

Whatever happened to “two wrongs don’t make a right”?

168
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:05:36pm

I’m a law abiding 56 year old white woman and police scare me. I’m scared shitless when cops are behind me. I’m afraid to get pulled over. I’m afraid I won’t be respectful enough. I’m afraid of the massive imbalance of power where my life is in the hands of someone who might be having a shitty day.

For whatever that might be worth.

169
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:05:44pm

re: #156 ObserverArt

I’m originally from London. A few years back, I watched the riots that, pretty much, burned London down. Reporters descended on the scene and said “Why are you doing this?” and the answer was: A couple of weeks back we marched from this place, to Scotland Yard, to deliver a petition. It was a few thousand names long. It was about the violent policing in the area. Not even the local press turned up because, why would they. Now we’ve set fire to a carpet store, and look at you all.”

If the language makes you want to say “I’m not like that,” then show, not tell.
Sign a petition. Call the prosecutors office. Send a mail.

170
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:06:06pm

re: #160 Nyet

I don’t. You do? Are you a racist?

Am I A racist? No, I don’t think so.

Am I racist, though? That’s a different, and more important question.

I know that I have emotional reactions to other people, and that I have these reactions to people who are different from me. I know when I read names on Curricula Vitae that I have an emotional reaction that colors (haha) how I look at the rest of the CV. I KNOW that and I battle against it.

I work hard not to RESPOND out of these REACTIONS, though. I recognize them, own up to them, and work not to let them be who I am.

So, I have these REACTIONS - does that make me racist? Or does acknowledging them and working against them make me NOT racist?

171
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:06:43pm

re: #161 Nyet

I always question bullshit rhetoric, sorry.

Yeah - there were some questions there. Here, let me ask them again:

If you feel the need to do that at this time, then I’d have to ask why? What do you get out of questioning that anger now? Do you feel this isn’t the time for that anger? Do you think that, even as another person of colour is killed with impunity, we should think about how our language comes across to white people who hear it?

172
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:08:01pm

re: #159 Blind Frog Belly White

Who are the black police working for? And where did they get the idea that their fellow blacks are less valuable?

Why would a Black person fall into that thinking if it was a strictly Black and White issue?

Please, do not make more of my and Sergey’s comment than what was intended. I will not argue any of your points as I believe you are correct.

But you have not touched on my comment directly for what was intended by it. So let me ask, do words like that increase the race issues already in this country and is that possibility a good or bad thing?

173
Lidane  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:08:37pm

Author is a Newsmax flunkie so of course he spends all his time fluffing Trump.

I really hope the GOP are stupid enough to make the 2016 race a referendum on Bill Clinton’s sex scandals from the 90s. They’d deserve the electoral curb-stomping that would follow.

174
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:11:33pm

re: #173 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Author is a Newsmax flunkie so of course he spends all his time fluffing Trump.

I really hope the GOP are stupid enough to make the 2016 race a referendum on Bill Clinton’s sex scandals from the 90s. They’d deserve the electoral curb-stomping that would follow.

If Trump is in the race, it is going to be about whatever comes out of his pie hole that particular moment of the day.

175
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:12:14pm

re: #169 harlequinade

I’m originally from London. A few years back, I watched the riots that, pretty much, burned London down. Reporters descended on the scene and said “Why are you doing this?” and the answer was: A couple of weeks back we marched from this place, to Scotland Yard, to deliver a petition. It was a few thousand names long. It was about the violent policing in the area. Not even the local press turned up because, why would they. Now we’ve set fire to a carpet store, and look at you all.”

If the language makes you want to say “I’m not like that,” then show, not tell.
Sign a petition. Call the prosecutors office. Send a mail.

I do and did.

176
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:16:15pm

re: #170 Blind Frog Belly White

Those are good questions, and I agree with your line of thinking on this particular issue. There are ingrained prejudices all people battle with.

But that wasn’t my point, which was: you are not “a” racist. You do not accept the racist lumping-together of people when it comes from “your” group. You do *not* think that it is OK. Neither do I. So don’t say “we”, as if you or I did. What other people do may be relevant in other contexts, but not in the context of individual criticism. I’m not bound by the positions that I have not espoused.

177
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:16:28pm

re: #172 ObserverArt

Why would a Black person fall into that thinking if it was a strictly Black and White issue?

Because the society of which he is a part tells him that black lives are worth less than white lives.

Look at how we respond when a white woman goes missing - we lose our shit. We spend hours of news on it. When Lacy Peterson - a pretty, white, pregnant young woman - vanished, it was on all the news, the headline for weeks. Around that time, a pregnant black woman the same age disappeared in the same area. Didn’t even make the news AT ALL. Well, it DID, but only as a story about how little we care about black lives.

He’s also part of ‘Cop Culture’, which clearly has a lot of racism in it. And given that, he’s probably trying to prove, to himself and his fellow cops, that he’s a Cop, not a Thug.

Just because you’re on the downside of the power equation doesn’t mean you don’t buy into it.

Please, do not make more of my and Sergei’s comment than what was intended. I will not argue any of your points as I believe you are correct.

But you have not touched on my comment directly for what was intended by it. So let me ask, do words like that increase the race issues already in this country and is that possibility a good or bad thing?

I think the original point is that the group that is keeping things as they are are white people, and it will only change when white people change it. And I don’t think that’s arguable. I also think it actually helps to put it in stark terms because it’s fucking important.

178
Kryptik  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:17:05pm

I’ll try and put in my two cents here since typing on an ipad is a pain, but my whole view on the whole “White America” thing is that, when people speak of it, they rarely mean White Americans, the same way people seem to mean when they speak of Black America. Rather, they speak of the vast number of institutions that underscore the foundations of American living. The much vaunted source of, dare I say it, ” white privilege”. The things that make living “white” in America the unassailable control group of the great experiment, and all other groups the “other”, the groups ok to generalize and marginalize, because they are not the default.

179
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:17:18pm

re: #173 Lidane

Concha naked Noah Rothman look sane. That’s how much of a dickbag Concha is.

180
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:17:39pm

re: #171 harlequinade

The answer was contained in the comment you responded to. Try contemplating for a sec.

181
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:18:29pm

re: #175 ObserverArt

I do and did.

If only that was enough. I don’t think it is.

182
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:18:29pm

re: #172 ObserverArt

But you have not touched on my comment directly for what was intended by it. So let me ask, do words like that increase the race issues already in this country and is that possibility a good or bad thing?

It shines a spotlight on these issues and forces those with privilege to look at that.

That’s a good thing.

But what tends to happen is this

And that’s not. It makes the discussion about White feelings being hurt, and not black children being murdered.

183
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:19:26pm

re: #180 Nyet

Dark? Is that you?

Withdrawn, your honour.

184
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:20:58pm

re: #179 WhatEVs

Concha naked Noah Rothman look sane. That’s how much of a dickbag Concha is.

Shit. MAKES not naked. WTF autocorrect?

185
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:21:05pm

re: #176 Nyet

Those are good questions, and I agree with your line of thinking on this particular issue. There are ingrained prejudices all people battle with.

But that wasn’t my point, which was: you are not “a” racist. You do not accept the racist lumping-together of people when it comes from “your” group. You do *not* think that it is OK. Neither do I. So don’t say “we”, as if you or I did. What other people do may be relevant in other contexts, but not in the context of individual criticism. I’m not bound by the positions that I have not espoused.

But you see, that’s the essence of white privilege - to be free of blame for things you didn’t do yourself. We swim in this privilege, we absorb it all our lives and then, when someone challenges it, as here, we get upset.

Ta-Nehisi Coates spoke of the need of white people for individual exoneration. This, it seems to me, is an example of it.

186
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:21:24pm

re: #181 WhatEVs

And on this we can agree.

My anger burned for about 10 minutes. And then I stood in my kitchen, crying, washing up. (I tidy when I get angry)

Tamir Rice was 12 years old, and he was gunned down in 2 seconds.

Something has to change.

187
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:21:53pm

re: #183 harlequinade

Predictably, ad hominem is all you got.

188
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:22:51pm

re: #184 WhatEVs

Shit. MAKES not naked. WTF autocorrect?

I wondered.

189
makeitstop  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:23:50pm

re: #184 WhatEVs

Shit. MAKES not naked. WTF autocorrect?

Well, naked Noah Rothman would be pretty fucking insane if you think about it.

190
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:24:33pm

re: #187
Nyet

The fragile glass slipper seemed to slip onto your foot so beautifully.

But, let me borrow other words.

re: #185 Blind Frog Belly White

But you see, that’s the essence of white privilege - to be free of blame for things you didn’t do yourself. We swim in this privilege, we absorb it all our lives and then, when someone challenges it, as here, we get upset.

Ta-Nehisi Coates spoke of the need of white people for individual exoneration. This, it seems to me, is an example of it.

As the reporter reported: Not all white people.

191
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:25:12pm
192
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:26:35pm

re: #186 harlequinade

And on this we can agree.

My anger burned for about 10 minutes. And then I stood in my kitchen, crying, washing up. (I tidy when I get angry)

Tamir Rice was 12 years old, and he was gunned down in 2 seconds.

Something has to change.

I wish I knew what that was. I honestly don’t. But whatever it is, it’s not happening.

We got one “bad cop” raping women. The jury still didn’t believe some of the victims.

And Trump makes all of it ok. He backs police no matter what. He gives the go ahead wink wink to his supporters to become thugs to “others”.

I don’t see a way to resolution.

193
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:27:03pm
194
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:27:51pm

re: #176 Nyet

Those are good questions, and I agree with your line of thinking on this particular issue. There are ingrained prejudices all people battle with.

I have read that it is hard-wired into our consciousness: humans evolved in small clans where we recognized everybody. Anyone who looks “unfamiliar” is automatically perceived as a threat.

Especially if his trousers are too large…

195
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:28:23pm

re: #191 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

It’s the unwritten law: White people felt “threatened,” so obviously it was illegal.

Just like the cops pulled right up on Rice, then plead that they had no time to react.

196
Charles Johnson  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:28:25pm
197
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:29:29pm

re: #185 Blind Frog Belly White

But you see, that’s the essence of white privilege - to be free of blame for things you didn’t do yourself.

Correct. More generally, it’s the majority privilege. And that’s really neither here, nor there vis a vis the point I’m making. Yes, such a state of things exists. It doesn’t mean that we should abandon the individual responsibility principle in order to show solidarity, or something.

198
gocart mozart  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:30:04pm

re: #142 Nyet

199
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:30:36pm

re: #190 harlequinade

Again, I don’t deal with incoherence. Try again.

200
EmmaAnne  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:31:22pm

I feel like there are two separate issues here. One is “my feelings as a white person are hurt because I am lumped in with racists” which is pretty much the “not all men” thing. My feelings as a white person are of little consequence compared to the fact the black people are being murdered on the street with no consequences. My job is to use whatever white privilege I have to make thing better (though I am damned if I know how).

But the other issue is what is the most effective way to attack the issue. I, like Whatevs, am also afraid of the police. I feel like they are out of control and want them reined in, not just as a matter of social justice but out of fear for myself and the people I love. So maybe it is a better strategy to talk about badly trained, out of control, completely unaccountable police?

I am thinking about the gay marriage fight. When the proponents were talking about unfair laws, they got nowhere. When they started talking about love and commitment, the whole mood of the country changed. People should care about fairness, but really, they mostly care about things that connect to their own emotions. Fear for yourself and people you love seems more likely to reach people than pointing out even the most egregious racism.

Really, I think that we need to hit this with both barrels at once. MLK’s polite, law abiding protests were far more effective because of the threat of riots and unrest that from other groups at the same time. MLK spoke to fairness and the more violent groups spoke to fear (for middle class white people).

201
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:31:30pm

Angry Tweets are coming!

202
Kryptik  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:32:33pm

re: #192 WhatEVs

Rather, it feels like we’re backsliding, and hard, with a huge amount of America desperately yearning for the “new normal” where they don’t have to hide their contempt for the other and dispense upon them what they deserve, whether it be second class existence to total decimation.

New normal, same as the old normal of Pre Civil War.

203
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:33:12pm

re: #177 Blind Frog Belly White

Because the society of which he is a part tells him that black lives are worth less than white lives.

Look at how we respond when a white woman goes missing - we lose our shit. We spend hours of news on it. When Lacy Peterson - a pretty, white, pregnant young woman - vanished, it was on all the news, the headline for weeks. Around that time, a pregnant black woman the same age disappeared in the same area. Didn’t even make the news AT ALL. Well, it DID, but only as a story about how little we care about black lives.

He’s also part of ‘Cop Culture’, which clearly has a lot of racism in it. And given that, he’s probably trying to prove, to himself and his fellow cops, that he’s a Cop, not a Thug.

Just because you’re on the downside of the power equation doesn’t mean you don’t buy into it.

I think the original point is that the group that is keeping things as they are are white people, and it will only change when white people change it. And I don’t think that’s arguable. I also think it actually helps to put it in stark terms because it’s fucking important.

You still have not answered the question. No problem.

I think it is time to bug out. I only said what I said because I don’t want to see the race issues in this country grow worse than they are. I happen to think we are this >< close to another ‘65-‘67 period of race riots. I was around then.

And what scares me about that is there are a lot more nasty toys around to make Detroit, Newark and Los Angeles look like a little bar fight. Instead it could be a hell of a war, and just think of all those police we already fear really unleashing their military backgrounds with the toys available.

Later.

204
gocart mozart  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:33:24pm

re: #158 harlequinade

If you feel the need to do that at this time, then I’d have to ask why? What do you get out of questioning that anger now? Do you feel this isn’t the time for that anger? Do you think that, even as another person of colour is killed with impunity, we should think about how our language comes across to white people who hear it?

White Guilt Denialism.

205
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:33:58pm

re: #201 The Vicious Babushka

Honest Tea says it’s removing Donald Trump quote from bottle cap

As far as DT quotes go, that one is entirely inoffensive.

206
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:34:35pm

re: #200 EmmaAnne

My feelings as a white person are of little consequence compared to the fact the black people are being murdered on the street with no consequences.

Not as bad as

207
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:35:57pm

re: #192 WhatEVs

I wish I knew what that was. I honestly don’t. But whatever it is, it’s not happening.

We got one “bad cop” raping women. The jury still didn’t believe some of the victims.

And Trump makes all of it ok. He backs police no matter what. He gives the go ahead wink wink to his supporters to become thugs to “others”.

I don’t see a way to resolution.

I saw Selma a while back. And it struck me that absolutely nothing had changed, except we have a media that would destroy an MLK, now, and we’ve mainstreamed racism, and privilege, so that they can say “He should have done what he was told”, while also saying “I’m not like that” (that wasn’t a dig. Honestly).

We’re divided by colour, we’re divided by the belief that we’re all individual, so we don’t have to take any collective responsibility.

Maybe we all need to join BLM when they close things down, or protest.

208
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:38:19pm

You know, I would have killed about 6 people during my time as a deputy if I had applied the same rules of engagement that cops got away with in the Brown and Tamir Rice cases. Needless to say, I never shot anyone or even came close to it. In particular, I was actually was charged by a 300 teenager. He was stopped with a snap kick to the crotch, something I had practiced a good bit because it seemed likely to be effective if the need arose. It did in fact work as advertised. I was knocked down but so was the perp. I got back on my feet immediately but he, obviously, did not. It was no fun for the over-sized pissant but he did live to apply the lesson.

209
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:38:35pm

re: #181 WhatEVs

If only that was enough. I don’t think it is.

Of course not. I also will be writing to the Ohio Democratic Part and to the Clinton campaign asking that it become a political topic. But even that will be fart in the wind because I doubt anyone would want to touch it in an election.

I do understand numbers and even if it might not be evident, I understand who has the power in this situation. I can’t do anything about that either.

Maybe I should just shut up. Can’t make a dent so why even care, eh? Not my style.

210
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:38:43pm

re: #199 Nyet

This is my last one to you. You really aren’t worth the effort.

YOU are the essence of white privilege - you want to be free of blame for things you didn’t do yourself. YOU swim in this privilege, YOU have absorbed it all your life and then, when someone challenges it, as here, YOU get upset.

Ta-Nehisi Coates spoke of the need of white people for individual exoneration. YOU, it seems to me, are a perfect example of it.

Done with you.

211
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:39:44pm

re: #210 harlequinade

Meh, I’m not even an American. But do go on with your ad hominems.

212
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:40:19pm

re: #199 Nyet

Again, I don’t deal with incoherence. Try again.

Just knock it off now. Down dinged for consistent jerkitude not in keeping with lgf standards.

213
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:41:26pm

re: #212 Aunty Entity Dragon

Sorry if that’s the best response I could muster to a comment that didn’t try to make any coherent argument.

214
EmmaAnne  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:41:34pm

re: #206 Nyet

Not as bad as

You are not an American, right? I feel like you are not getting all the resonances of this conversation. It isn’t that a white person, this one time, points out that “not all white people…” It is that white people, every fucking time, have to have their own need for scrupulous and delicate treatment of themselves be taken care of before they are willing to listen to black people.

When women talk about rape and harassment, the first thing that happens, every time, is that a bunch of men demand that we all admit that not all men are harassers and rapists, and refuse to listen to what we are saying until their tender feelings are attended to properly. It isn’t nice or fair to imply that men are bad, bad, people. Nope. But it is worse to be harassed and raped, and men aren’t such tender flowers that they have to make sure everyone acknowledges and reassures them of how not-bad they are before they can pay attention to far worse unfairness. Or they shouldn’t be.

215
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:42:46pm

re: #182 harlequinade

It shines a spotlight on these issues and forces those with privilege to look at that.

That’s a good thing.

But what tends to happen is this

[Embedded content]

And that’s not. It makes the discussion about White feelings being hurt, and not black children being murdered.

What if my point is as simple as I don’t want to see more Black people killed, nothing about my feelings. Because that was my point…as simple as that.

Okay logging out.

216
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:43:01pm

re: #202 Kryptik

Rather, it feels like we’re backsliding, and hard, with a huge amount of America desperately yearning for the “new normal” where they don’t have to hide their contempt for the other and dispense upon them what they deserve, whether it be second class existence to total decimation.

New normal, same as the old normal of Pre Civil War.

I was thinking more like 11th century England.

217
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:43:33pm

re: #214 EmmaAnne

Yes, everyone deserves a fair and scrupulous treatment. Shocker.

218
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:44:23pm

re: #213 Nyet

Sorry if that’s the best response I could muster to a comment that didn’t try to make any coherent argument.

Your excuses are noted. If you want to be deliberately obtuse, have at it.

219
wrenchwench  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:44:48pm

re: #210 harlequinade

This is my last one to you. You really aren’t worth the effort.

YOU are the essence of white privilege - you want to be free of blame for things you didn’t do yourself. YOU swim in this privilege, YOU have absorbed it all your life and then, when someone challenges it, as here, YOU get upset.

Ta-Nehisi Coates spoke of the need of white people for individual exoneration. YOU, it seems to me, are a perfect example of it.

Done with you.

I find myself agreeing with you much, but not on your second sentence. He is worth the effort. Especially when he IS an effort.

220
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:45:16pm

re: #215 ObserverArt

I’m with you there. On both counts.

Dogs to walk, and beds to go to.

221
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:45:47pm

re: #218 Aunty Entity Dragon

Your excuses are noted. If you want to be deliberately obtuse, have at it.

Facts are not excuses. #190 didn’t offer any coherent argument I could respond to. Only some half-baked insinuations.

222
EmmaAnne  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:46:13pm

re: #217 Nyet

Yes, everyone deserves a fair and scrupulous treatment. Shocker.

Dude. Some people are getting way, way, way less fair and scrupulous treatment than other people, and we are on the winning side. Perhaps we could tend to their hemorrhaging wounds before we fuss over our ruffled feathers?

223
harlequinade  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:46:27pm

re: #219 wrenchwench

Maybe.

But not today. And not in my mood.

But - dogs are dancing with crossed legs. I must away.

224
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:47:02pm

re: #217 Nyet

Yes, everyone deserves a fair and scrupulous treatment. Shocker.

YOUR PRECIOUS FEELINGS GETTING OFFENDED ARE NOT THE FUCKING POINT.

You really do seem to have your priorities badly arranged. How about we stop the militarized police carnage and systemic racism before we tip toe up to you, pat you on the back and assure you that you are okay?

225
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:48:59pm

re: #222 EmmaAnne

You are welcome to do so, if that’s your choice. I think one can walk and chew gum.

226
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:49:26pm

re: #224 Aunty Entity Dragon

#225

227
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:49:50pm
228
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:51:43pm

re: #207 harlequinade

Does shutting down an airport get the message out? I think it does more harm than good.

Taking the stage over from Dem candidates? Ditto.

I’m at a loss as to what can be done. I can, as a well-enough off white woman, voice my own fears. Will anyone care?

I don’t think anyone cares about me. I’m white. Great. If it came down to me vs cops, who’d care? (And I know I have privilege.) Few. Maybe if I looked like Demi Moore (who’s roughly my age.)

I’m not privileged enough to matter.

229
makeitstop  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:52:49pm

re: #214 EmmaAnne

You are not an American, right? I feel like you are not getting all the resonances of this conversation. It isn’t that a white person, this one time, points out that “not all white people…” It is that white people, every fucking time, have to have their own need for scrupulous and delicate treatment of themselves be taken care of before they are willing to listen to black people.

When women talk about rape and harassment, the first thing that happens, every time, is that a bunch of men demand that we all admit that not all men are harassers and rapists, and refuse to listen to what we are saying until their tender feelings are attended to properly. It isn’t nice or fair to imply that men are bad, bad, people. Nope. But it is worse to be harassed and raped, and men aren’t such tender flowers that they have to make sure everyone acknowledges and reassures them of how not-bad they are before they can pay attention to far worse unfairness. Or they shouldn’t be.

This deserves multiple updings. Would that I could give them to you.

230
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:53:07pm

re: #209 ObserverArt

Of course not. I also will be writing to the Ohio Democratic Part and to the Clinton campaign asking that it become a political topic. But even that will be fart in the wind because I doubt anyone would want to touch it in an election.

I do understand numbers and even if it might not be evident, I understand who has the power in this situation. I can’t do anything about that either.

Maybe I should just shut up. Can’t make a dent so why even care, eh? Not my style.

Never shut up. Never.

231
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:54:25pm

re: #226 Nyet

#225

Obviously, making you feel better is just as important as stopping cops gunning down anybody who has hands anywhere near any other part of their bodies, is mentally/emotionally ill, carrying something, not carrying something, running, not running, standing somewhere, at a pool party, leaving a pool party…

Carry on. It all has to be about you.

232
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:56:19pm

re: #231 Aunty Entity Dragon

Obviously. making you feel better is just as important as stopping cops gunning down anybody who has hands anywhere near any other part of their bodies, is mentally/emotionally ill, carrying something,not carrying something, running, not running, standing somewhere, at a pool party, leaving a pool party…

Carry on. It all has to be about you.

I see you are well acquainted with men made of straw.

233
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:58:40pm

re: #232 Nyet

I see you are well acquainted with men made of straw.

Dude, I have read your statements and this is what you are projecting. Stop the bullshit. You want to be offended and contrarian and you got called on it because this is not about you. Get that through your head.

234
unproven innocence  Dec 28, 2015 • 2:59:32pm

re: #232 Nyet

I see you are well acquainted with men made of straw.

Are you familar also with the notion of “the last straw”?

235
Jenner7  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:00:22pm
via IG superpoorkids
236
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:00:23pm

I’m out. I expect better from Nyet and I don’t know what the hell is going with the attitude right now.

237
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:00:51pm

re: #233 Aunty Entity Dragon

Dude, I have read your statements and this is what you are projecting. Stop the bullshit. You want to be offended and contrarian and you got called on it because this is not about you. Get that through your head.

Nope, this is not what I’m projecting. That’s what you want me to have written in order to knock what I say down, but that’s neither what I have written, nor what I have implied, nor what follows from what I have written.

238
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:01:12pm

re: #234 unproven innocence

Are you familar also with the notion of “the last straw”?

Yes.

239
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:02:28pm

re: #236 Aunty Entity Dragon

I’m out. I expect better from Nyet and I don’t know what the hell is going with the attitude right now.

Try not to put egregious distortions into my mouth next time and we may have a friendlier conversation, thank you.

240
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:04:26pm

Darwin Award:

241
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:05:13pm

Oh god

242
Kid A  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:10:01pm

Nine minutes in and no mention of Tamir Rice on Fox News.

243
ausador  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:10:31pm

Saved/bookmarked for future ready use…

244
lawhawk  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:10:51pm

I feel like what I’ve said in the past about the justice system and racial inequality applies again. And every day. It’s what it is.

A better society is one that polices law enforcement and prosecutors so that when they engage in wrongdoing, they are held accountable. Excessive force is handled appropriately, and the show-trial effect of grand juries that don’t return indictments because prosecutors defer to law enforcement who investigate themselves on grounds that they feared for their own lives, all while firing at children who were unarmed (but playing with toy guns, which isn’t a crime).

It means creating a clear system of accountability and getting a mindset changed about how to handle these cases. Politicans don’t want to change it because they want to be seen as law and order, and even in NYC where DeBlasio fought to end stop and frisk, the mayor was attacked by media and right wingers because they thought every blip of crime was a sign of the bad days returning. Well, even after ending stop and frisk, crime overall is down 2% but homicides are up a few percent (a statistical fluke given that last year was a 40+ year low and per capita homicide rate in NYC is at all time lows.

245
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:12:14pm

Speaking of privilege, I think these people won’t get the Paris treatment:

bigstory.ap.org

MAIDUGURI, Nigeria (AP) — Boko Haram Islamic extremists struck a city and a town in northeastern Nigeria with rocket-propelled grenades and multiple suicide bombers Monday, killing at least 80 people, witnesses said.

In Maiduguri, the capital of Borno state, at least 30 were killed and more than 90 wounded in overnight blasts and shootouts, and another 20 died in a bombing outside a mosque at dawn Monday, said Muhammed Kanar, area coordinator of the National Emergency Management Agency.

A twin suicide bombing also killed at least 30 people in Madagali, a town 150 kilometers (95 miles) southeast of Maiduguri, witnesses said. Danladi Buba said two women blew themselves up at a market near a busy bus station at about 9 a.m. Brig. Gen. Victor Ezugwu, the officer commanding in northeast Adamawa State, confirmed the attack but said casualties have yet to be established.

246
Kid A  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:14:52pm

re: #243 ausador

247
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:16:09pm

re: #241 blueraven

Oh god

[Embedded content]

This is one of those times when I can’t help but compare the favorable treatment that police and firefighter unions receive versus virtually every other union under the sun. If we were talking Loehmann as a teacher, he’d be held up as just another example of how teacher unions protect “bad teachers,” preventing administrators for firing them and hiring more “good teachers.” And how wrong it is that “our tax dollars” go to that union rather than school budgets.

But he’s a cop, so the fact that he’s a complete fuck-up will be quietly buried.

248
Kid A  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:19:57pm

Iraqi military retakes Ramadi from Isis. THANKS, OBAMA!!!!!

249
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:21:36pm
250
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:22:51pm
251
Decatur Deb  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:22:53pm

re: #247 Targetpractice

This is one of those times when I can’t help but compare the favorable treatment that police and firefighter unions receive versus virtually every other union under the sun. If we were talking Loehmann as a teacher, he’d be held up as just another example of how teacher unions protect “bad teachers,” preventing administrators for firing them and hiring more “good teachers.” And how wrong it is that “our tax dollars” go to that union rather than school budgets.

But he’s a cop, so the fact that he’s a complete fuck-up will be quietly buried.

It’s a bit useless to fasten on to Loehmann and other abysmal under-qualified cops. There is no fix except to kneecap the dumbfucks who created their hiring process and gave them a gun. If we don’t go after the management side, it probably means Most People are quietly satisfied with the process and its products.

252
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:24:41pm

And it seems like we only hear about the fuck-ups like Loehmann in the ranks after they’ve shot or beaten a black person to death. Then we get that momentary glimpse into the seedy underbelly of our law enforcement community, from piss-poor test scores to emotional basketcases to men who would have long rap sheets if they didn’t have a badge to hide behind.

253
ausador  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:25:58pm

Average age of Fox veiwers still going up, also (shock) 98.9% of viewers are white.

254
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:27:33pm
255
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:28:49pm

re: #206 Nyet

Not as bad as

Is there a fallacy for using the wrong fallacy to wave off an explanation?

256
Snarknado!  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:29:42pm

re: #254 Backwoods_Sleuth

Can’t upding such an awful truth. But thanks.

257
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:29:58pm

re: #255 Belafon

Is there a fallacy for using the wrong fallacy to wave off an explanation?

Maybe. Not that it would apply in this case. This thread is full of “Dear Muslima”.

258
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:30:30pm
259
Decatur Deb  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:30:34pm

re: #254 Backwoods_Sleuth

Every person killed by Cleveland police over the past four years has been black. 70% have been unarmed.

“Look, yunz, it’s time we capped a white guy. The’rs some under the railroad trestle that won’t be missed. Y’all be careful out there, now.”

260
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:30:37pm

re: #254 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

But what about the whites? Right, Nyet?

261
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:31:11pm

THIS FUCKER==>

262
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:32:33pm

re: #258 The Vicious Babushka

Not from LA, but isn’t that something the Pacific normally prevents?

263
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:33:21pm

re: #253 ausador

Average age of Fox veiwers still going up, also (shock) 98.9% of viewers are white.

[Embedded content]

That’s a little too rah-rah. Trump has younger people attending his rallies (almost always white) so there are assholes attracted to him. Fox, if we’re lucky is on the down and out. But I’m not counting them out yet.

264
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:33:54pm

re: #261 The Vicious Babushka

THIS FUCKER==>

[Embedded content]

It’s funny how wingnuts suddenly want to spin being a gov’t employee and union member as a bad thing when it’s to protect the NRA, but don’t let either fact get in the way of defending cops.

265
Charles Johnson  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:37:26pm
266
Charles Johnson  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:37:55pm
267
Charles Johnson  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:39:16pm

Looks like therightstuff​.biz is one of the new white supremacist Internet hubs.

268
No Country For Old Haters  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:39:57pm

re: #15 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I bet it’s not policy to roll up so close to a live shooter.

269
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:40:29pm

Sadly, I’ve seen some European chemtrailers.

Not the Russian ones tho, but having googled just now, yep, there are those too.

270
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:41:40pm

re: #225 Nyet

You are welcome to do so, if that’s your choice. I think one can walk and chew gum.

But all we seem to do, ever, is walk, so your suggestion that we can do both assumes facts not in evidence.

271
No Country For Old Haters  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:42:09pm

re: #261 The Vicious Babushka

THIS FUCKER==>

[Embedded content]

272
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:42:56pm

re: #246 Kid A

Are there people who try to say that if whites evolved from Africans why are there still black people?

273
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:42:57pm

re: #241 blueraven

274
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:44:58pm
275
Jenner7  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:45:34pm

re: #268 No Schlong For Old Haters

I didn’t realize it was policy to shoot from inside your car.

276
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:45:58pm

re: #270 Blind Frog Belly White

But all we seem to do, ever, is walk, so your suggestion that we can do both assumes facts not in evidence.

“Can” as in “doesn’t exclude”.

277
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:46:25pm

re: #236 Aunty Entity Dragon

I’m out. I expect better from Nyet and I don’t know what the hell is going with the attitude right now.

Pedantry. He gets this way. I play till I get tired.

278
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:46:30pm

re: #273 blueraven

If he does get charged, his defense will be copfluenza: He bad decision making should not be held against him since the police force hired him knowing how bad he was.

279
Skip Intro  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:46:37pm

re: #262 Belafon

Not from LA, but isn’t that something the Pacific normally prevents?

Nope, not in winter.

280
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:47:12pm
281
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:48:36pm

re: #237 Nyet

Nope, this is not what I’m projecting. That’s what you want me to have written in order to knock what I say down, but that’s neither what I have written, nor what I have implied, nor what follows from what I have written.

You’re not the one to decide what you’re projecting. That’s a perception on the part of your audience. You may not think it’s what you’re projecting, but yeah, it is.

282
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:49:41pm

re: #281 Blind Frog Belly White

You’re not the one to decide what you’re projecting. That’s a perception on the part of your audience. You may not think it’s what you’re projecting, but yeah, it is.

If the perception is distorted, I will say so, just as I have.

283
ausador  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:50:30pm

How sure are we that these things aren’t a clever ISIS plot?
///

284
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:50:56pm

re: #248 Kid A

Iraqi military retakes Ramadi from Isis. THANKS, OBAMA!!!!!

Obummer didn’t do this! He let ISIS take Ramadi! He’s probably sad no more Muslims are in the city!

285
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:51:32pm

re: #274 blueraven

[Embedded content]

You can be sure that absolutely none of this ever made its way to the grand jury.

286
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:51:52pm

re: #278 Belafon

If he does get charged, his defense will be copfluenza: He bad decision making should not be held against him since the police force hired him knowing how bad he was.

The whole goddamn police force needs to be charged. The city govt as well. This man should have never been hired. He was incompetent at best and we have seen his worst.

287
Kid A  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:53:50pm

re: #283 ausador

How sure are we that these things aren’t a clever ISIS plot?
///

[Embedded content]

Probably confused “Deerbrook” with “Dearborn.”
///

288
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:57:26pm
289
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:57:33pm

re: #282 Nyet

If the perception is distorted, I will say so, just as I have.

Point missed. Completely.

290
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:59:17pm

re: #286 blueraven

The whole goddamn police force needs to be charged. The city govt as well. This man should have never been hired. He was incompetent at best and we have seen his worst.

Unfortunately, the police mindset needs to change. Across the whole damn country.

291
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:59:20pm
292
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 28, 2015 • 3:59:43pm

re: #262 Belafon

Not from LA, but isn’t that something the Pacific normally prevents?

re: #279 Skip Intro

Nope, not in winter.

Also the summer, only when that happens it gets HOT, instead of COLD.

293
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:00:55pm

re: #289 WhatEVs

Point missed. Completely.

…and deliberately, it seems.

294
jaunte  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:01:00pm

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

295
Belafon  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:01:50pm

re: #294 jaunte

Maybe Nyet can answer this one.

296
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:01:56pm

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

In an open carry state, cops were right to fear that black guy walking around with gun might go into Rec Center and open fire, according to study commissioned by DA.

You can’t make this shit up.

297
Decatur Deb  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:02:00pm

re: #290 WhatEVs

Unfortunately, the police mindset needs to change. Across the whole damn country.

How many generations will that take, considering the pace of progress since the police riots of the ’60s?

298
Eric The Fruit Bat  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:02:27pm

They should have brought in a DA from a different county or even used the state AG. The county DA and local LE have an incestuous relationship as it is.

299
Jenner7  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:03:21pm
300
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:03:55pm

re: #296 Targetpractice

In an open carry state, cops were right to fear that black guy walking around with gun might go into Rec Center and open fire, according to study commissioned by DA.

You can’t make this shit up.

Well, given that McGinty flat out said at the presser this afternoon that he had an ethical duty to defend the cops to the grand jury, I am not surprised.

301
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:03:57pm
302
Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:04:18pm
303
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:04:25pm

re: #289 WhatEVs

Point missed. Completely.

Sorry, I still remember the context this appeared in. One only needs to scroll up. Aunty has tried to ascribe to me the positions that I neither hold, nor have expressed, overtly or covertly. Therefore it doesn’t matter in the slightest that she has that perception. Who cares? One should deal (if one so wishes) with what I write, not with phantasms in one’s head.

304
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:05:48pm

re: #295 Belafon

Maybe Nyet can answer this one.

Well, as a matter of fact, I can.

A caller reported that a male was pointing “a pistol” at random people in the Cudell Recreation Center.

305
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:06:21pm

Compare the Rice case, where the DA presented a report saying the cops were right to fear Rice could go into the Rec Center and open fire with the Harpham case in Colorado Springs, where a woman calling 911 to alert them to a white gun walking around with a rifle in broad daylight got her a lecture about how Colorado is an open-carry state.

306
blueraven  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:06:49pm

re: #295 Belafon

Maybe Nyet can answer this one.

Can we stop this now, please. It has gotten out of hand

307
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:06:56pm

re: #304 Nyet

Well, as a matter of fact, I can.

What law was he breaking by doing that?

308
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:07:13pm

re: #304 Nyet

Well, as a matter of fact, I can.

A caller reported that a male was pointing “a pistol” at random people in the Cudell Recreation Center.

Point of fact, the caller said it was a kid with a toy gun, but the dispatcher failed to mention that until much later.

309
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:08:06pm

re: #308 Backwoods_Sleuth

Point of fact, the caller said it was a kid with a toy gun, but the dispatcher failed to mention that until much later.

I know that. The question was about what the cops thought.

310
Jenner7  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:08:43pm
This still applies, just change the names.
311
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:09:26pm

re: #307 Targetpractice

What law was he breaking by doing that?

If pointing weapons at random people on the street is lawful, I might have underestimated the American gun craziness, and I sure know it’s beyond all bounds.

312
The Sheriff's A Ni-  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:09:26pm

re: #117 Blind Frog Belly White

As with all things, its more complicated than black and white. For example, the Cleveland P.D. also have a record of gunning down unarmed white guys. Race is a huge factor in the power equation, no doubt, but its not the only factor.

313
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:09:33pm

re: #309 Nyet

Point of fact, the caller said it was a kid with a toy gun, but the dispatcher failed to mention that until much later.

I know that. The question was about what the cops thought.

Well, the cops weren’t thinking, they were reacting to something that wasn’t actually happening.

314
gwangung  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:10:23pm

re: #309 Nyet

Point of fact, the caller said it was a kid with a toy gun, but the dispatcher failed to mention that until much later.

I know that. The question was about what the cops thought.

Debate about a non-existant process.

315
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:11:36pm

re: #303 Nyet

Sorry, I still remember the context this appeared in. One only needs to scroll up. Aunty has tried to ascribe to me the positions that I neither hold, nor have expressed, overtly or covertly. Therefore it doesn’t matter in the slightest that she has that perception. Who cares? One should deal (if one so wishes) with what I write, not with phantasms in one’s head.

Well, we all see those supposed phantasams. And you come off like a complete jackass.

But do carry on. In your mind you’re just divine.

316
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:11:40pm

re: #311 Nyet

If pointing weapons at random people on the street is lawful, I might have underestimated the American gun craziness, and I sure know it’s beyond all bounds.

Cute. The question being discussed is the law he was breaking, not (as you’ve suggested) what the cops thought at the time. And when the cops arrived, Rice had the “gun” tucked in the waistband of his pants.

317
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:11:48pm

re: #313 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, the cops weren’t thinking, they were reacting to something that wasn’t actually happening.

Now someone will say that I’m projecting a defense of the cops.

Sigh.

The question was, what law the cops thought he was breaking. I answered that as well as I could. I don’t think I need to point out that the rest of their actions are indefensible.

318
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:13:05pm

re: #317 Nyet

Now someone will say that I’m projecting a defense of the cops.

Sigh.

The question was, what law the cops thought he was breaking. I answered that as well as I could. I don’t think I need to point out that the rest of their actions are indefensible.

Tamir wasn’t breaking any law when the police arrived. They didn’t give him time to break any laws in their presence.

319
Kid A  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:14:03pm

“You’re depressed as hell because you lost your job like everybody else has lost their job.”-TRUMP

Have you looked at the unemployment statistics lately, you wanker?

320
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:15:10pm

re: #316 Targetpractice

Cute. The question being discussed is the law he was breaking, not (as you’ve suggested) what the cops thought at the time. And when the cops arrived, Rice had the “gun” tucked in the waistband of his pants.

Actually no, it’s about what the cops were thinking at the time.

Because if you want to literally know what law he was breaking, then no, having a toy gun isn’t breaking any law.

We know that. That’s trivial. So that’s not what was meant:

Ohio is an open carry state, and the cops say they thought Rice was an adult, so what law, exactly, was he breaking?

321
Kid A  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:15:35pm

“We say Merry Christmas, other people say (starts with the mocking face) Happy Holidays. No, we say Merry Christmas,” crowd goes bonkers. Man, does he know his crowd or what?

322
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:16:57pm

re: #315 WhatEVs

Well, we all see those supposed phantasams.

There must be a term for seeing what is not there.

323
WhatEVs  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:18:33pm

re: #322 Nyet

There must be a term for seeing what is not there.

It’s a shame that you’re the only one not seeing them.

324
ausador  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:18:46pm

re: #304 Nyet

Well, as a matter of fact, I can.

The caller also said that it was a juvenile and that he didn’t know if the gun was real. Later he repeated to the 911 operator that the gun was possibly fake. Neither of those statements was transcribed by the operator so the dispatcher who contacted the officers didn’t have that info to relay to them. :(

325
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:19:25pm

re: #318 Backwoods_Sleuth

Tamir wasn’t breaking any law when the police arrived. They didn’t give him time to break any laws in their presence.

Yes. But the question was about what the cops thought.

To repeat:

Ohio is an open carry state, and the cops say they thought Rice was an adult, so what law, exactly, was he breaking?

There would be no reason to mention their alleged perception of him as an adult, as well as that Ohio is an open carry state, only to ask about whether having a toy gun breaks the law. An adult having a toy gun in a non-open-carry state is also not a crime.

326
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:20:46pm

re: #323 WhatEVs

It’s a shame that you’re the only one not seeing them.

I don’t find shame in not having delusions.

327
The Ghost of a Flea  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:21:50pm

The thing about race is that the hierarchy—white on top, everything else subordinate—is more consistent than the criterion of assignment. It *is* different to be White, because racist constructs predominantly stem from people assigning themselves superiority and tying it to Whiteness. It’s a justification system for exploitation: a grand conceptual scam that there exists a plan of God or Nature, whereby there exists Not-Quite-People who cannot have autonomy, but nonetheless labor, perform, and receive sexual attention like a Real Person.

This shit doesn’t make sense because it ain’t supposed to make sense. It’s destiny, Divine Will…make-believe.

Not all white people are racist, but many operate within a framework of assumption in which racism doesn’t have to be a calculation in there day-in, day-out life. Outside of being stuck in Nation of Islam enclave or the Seko dictatorship, that possibility that others might assign you qualities due to race, and you could be under threat because of their assumptions doesn’t come up much.

And there’s the matter of the…patina…of historical racism. Yes, there are other racisms…Arab versus black in North Africa, various hierarchies of what Asian nationality have inherent superiority, colorism in India and elsewhere. But the most successful racist construct is White versus Other—by the numbers, by money and power extracted through racist laws and policies, by the butcher’s bill…and by the communication and spread of the underlying stereotypes and concepts—so much so that “other” racisms echo and repeat deGobineau-esque garbage. To say nothing of the sad history of peoples mealy-mouthing how their ethnicity has parity with Whites, or should have honorary White status.

Mind you, White-ness is also a scam, because the internal hierarchy of whiteness incorporates power, money, and cultural hegemony into its calculations. There are many ways to become a distal white—being poor, not owning land, being a foreigner—and opportunities will close to you because of that assessment, but you’ll still be above non-whites. When MLK talked about poor whites being fed Jim Crow when their stomachs were empty, this is what he meant. The USA beautifully illustrates the emptiness of whiteness, as successive waves of Irish, Slavs, and Mediterranean transitioned from “suspiciously brown” to “a lesser kind of white” to “totally white.”

I will not get distracted by the issue of how “assimilation,” in the colonial era, is effectively about emulation of the material and ritual culture of The Best Kind of White People—be they Romans or Britons or Middle Americans—and rejection of distinct cultural identity. Nor will I harp on how both Whiteness and assimilation are built with movable goalposts. But I will say they’re cojoined twins who share a lot of organs.

Blackness…the contrast to Whiteness, and only recent applied exclusively to Africans (everybody used to be black)…has largely existed as an assigned rather than an assumed group. You were black because Real People (Whites) determined it via blackometrics or whatever. There’s maybe a century, generously, of cultural transformation in which African Americans—slave descendants not just in the US. I mean—have attempted to assign positive qualities to the label “black.” Stuff like “Black is beautiful” came into existence because there was a culture of “black is not beautiful” that was the baseline.

So I could get lost in the heap of bullshit in sausage casings that in racial constructs, but I want to wrap this up. Basically, if you’re uncomfortable with someone being mad at White people in general, you should consider that the very idea of “White people versus Others” was built as a justification system, and is still used (whole, in parts, and concentrated) as a justification system, for distinguishing Real People—worthy of a minimum of autonomy, justice, love—from the undeserving. Every other racial category assignment subtracts.

ETA: Centuries on, “Black” and “Nonwhite” actually have a shared set of experiences that provide them with an identity: shared experiences getting oppressed and exploited. “White” by contrast, has not had that an equivalent common experience: indeed those on the margins of Whiteness are also trod on regularly. That white supremacists manufacture threat to simulate common experience can be understood through this lens.

This is actually a fucking great power and control system. If you’re sort-of White, falling to not-White is terrifying and you’ll do anything to avoid it…including putting up with the aforementioned treading on. You have no incentive to identify with non-Whites, and every reason to identify with the Better Kind of White People (who actually don’t give a shit about you, except that you’re the intermediate cog in a power and control system).
If you’re one of the “better” races in a empire that applies Whiteness as the standard, you’ve incentivized to disassociate from categories below you (assimilation reference: DRINK!). If you’re near the bottom, you’re aware that your suffering is created by the White-Nonwhite distinction: gambling on some Whites being better people is…actually a terrible idea, because they don’t have skin in the game.

And that takes us to the micro-case of internet reactions and “not all whites”-type argumentation. Fast media and the existence of civil rights movements means you get direct exposure to the White-Nonwhite distinction, and you hear from people who’ve been on the down side of that dichotomy. We have a generation for whom “White” is just another race—theoretical equality!—but the full arbitrariness, not-a-fucking-thing nature of race…that it exists predominantly as a power and control system, root and branch…has not been engaged. Because they don’t think of their whiteness as power—even as other White people still claim it as a source of power—they feel attacked.

Like if there was one guy who was like, “Sure, I stayed in Omelas, but that whole diseased starved orphan thing started way before I got here. Perhaps it’s you, person leaving Omelas, who have a problem with civility!”

Did I mention how fucking great a power and control system this is? Yeah.

328
makeitstop  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:22:17pm

re: #285 Targetpractice

You can be sure that absolutely none of this ever made its way to the grand jury.

But boy oh boy, is it ever gonna make it to the civil suit.

329
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:23:56pm

re: #325 Nyet

Yes. But the question was about what the cops thought.

To repeat:

There would be no reason to mention their alleged perception of him as an adult, as well as that Ohio is an open carry state, only to ask about whether having a toy gun breaks the law. An adult having a toy gun in a non-open-carry state is also not a crime.

Except Hayes didn’t ask if having a toy gun breaks the law. He asked what law was being broken by Rice, if the facts as established (Ohio is open-carry, the cops claim they thought he was an adult) are accepted.

330
jaunte  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:24:24pm

I don’t think the police felt threatened by Tamir Rice. They wouldn’t have driven up so close to a man they thought might kill them.

331
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:30:09pm

re: #329 Targetpractice

Except Hayes didn’t ask if having a toy gun breaks the law. He asked what law was being broken by Rice, if the facts as established (Ohio is open-carry, the cops claim they thought he was an adult) are accepted.

Since Rice did have a toy gun and hence a priori broke no law, what is exactly the point of asking a question in this form? This being in Ohio and cops’ thoughts do not alter the fact that having toy guns breaks no laws. He didn’t break any law under any assumption.

332
allegro  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:30:24pm

re: #322 Nyet

There must be a term for seeing what is not there.

Here’s the thing… a black man expresses his rage, pain, and frustration after yet another example of gross injustice in which a young boy is murdered and his killers go free due to a rigged system.

If the main thing you take from his tweet is that he made a reference to white people without the disclaimer that he doesn’t mean ALL white people in his 140 character limit tweet, that’s a privileged, pretty much asshole, take on it since it communicates that your feelings take precedence over their reality.

You tell us you aren’t projecting what a number of us are seeing. Yeah, you are.

333
unproven innocence  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:30:25pm

re: #318 Backwoods_Sleuth

Tamir wasn’t breaking any law when the police arrived. They didn’t give him time to break any laws in their presence.

When I watched a longish version of the park surveillance video, Tamir appeared to have made at least one call from his cellphone while walking back and forth on a sidewalk. I’ve wondered whether he might have been calling for police help, directly or thru a 3rd party, and therefore approached the squad car promptly when it arrived because he was expecting them.

334
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:35:58pm

re: #331 Nyet

Since Rice did have a toy gun and hence a priori broke no law, what is exactly the point of asking a question in this form? This being in Ohio and cops’ thoughts do not alter the fact that having toy guns breaks no laws. He didn’t break any law under any assumption.

The point is that Rice was not actively breaking the law at the time the cops rolled up on him, yet they treated him (and the DA defended them as following established procedure) as if he were an “active shooter” and so shot him at the first sign of what they felt as “threatening” movement.

335
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:36:52pm

For what it is worth (not very probably).

I’ve had my own run ins with Sergey and his style. But he has always maintained a pure debate style and values how words are used and understood. I don’t think that is a bad style. Others obviously disagree. But a little understanding of the others in a debate helps. If we are debating. I hope we are.

I’d like to know where either of our initial comments to the “White America” comment can be construed as being excuses for our own personal white feelings.

And how that then became Sergey’s position sure does appear to be making him a strawman. At that point why wouldn’t he defend himself and his position in his style.

I like good discussion. I think Sergey adds to it, not against it.

You know, I was hesitant to even make my comment in #110. I was worried about how it would be taken. I am now hesitant to get into this type of discussion. I bet there are many others that will stay out too, no matter their positions. And that is not good for Little Green Footballs, the policing problem, all of us and our country.

336
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:39:17pm

re: #334 Targetpractice

The point is that Rice was not actively breaking the law at the time the cops rolled up on him, yet they treated him (and the DA defended them as following established procedure) as if he were an “active shooter” and so shot him at the first sign of what they felt as “threatening” movement.

And that “first sign” was before the squad car even stopped.

337
BeachDem  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:39:21pm

re: #286 blueraven

The whole goddamn police force needs to be charged. The city govt as well. This man should have never been hired. He was incompetent at best and we have seen his worst.

I also remember, right after it happened, the only person talking to the media was the head of the police union—who, of course, put that special spin on things, and whose version wasn’t questioned for days on end. And then the media were off to the races, digging up dirt on the parents and the neighborhood, etc. When people called cleveland dot com on their bullshit, they tried to justify it with a “people in the region want to know” crap, and making a totally unsubstantiated link between the parents’ background and the bogus”why was this kid hanging round the park pointing a gun at people.”

The die was cast from the minute it happened. Sickening from day one.

338
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:47:43pm

re: #332 allegro

There is no “precedence” to speak of. It’s not a contest. There is their reality, and there’s what I wrote about generalizing rhetoric. One doesn’t exclude the other. They coexist. The validity (or lack thereof) of my point is simply orthogonal to the struggle against the racist cop abuse. Whereas it has been implied that making the point about the invalidity of generalizing statements about racial groups is somehow as important as, or even replaces, that struggle. Nope. Bullshit. The point neither denies the priority of the struggle, nor is positioned as being “just as important”. But the struggle having the priority also does not preclude making the point I made.

One can point out that the Hamas rhetoric is hateful (and no, I’m not comparing that tweet to Hamas rhetoric, but knowing the penchant for fallacies some people have I already expect the accusation) without diminishing the oppression that the Palestinians find themselves under. One can point out the hateful rhetoric of the Israeli right without diminishing the dangers Israelis are surrounded with. Moreover, anyone making these points who doesn’t live in Israel or in the occupied territories is writing from a position of privilege. It doesn’t mean one should just shut up though.

339
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:48:39pm

This thread saddens me. I sure hope a few member revisit it.

340
BeachDem  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:56:34pm

re: #298 Eric The Fruit Bat

They should have brought in a DA from a different county or even used the state AG. The county DA and local LE have an incestuous relationship as it is.

Oh dog, not the state AG—that’s Mike DeWine—he already stuck his nose into the Walmart shooting of John Crawford, and totally fucked that up.

plunderbund.com

341
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:57:23pm

re: #334 Targetpractice

The point is that Rice was not actively breaking the law at the time the cops rolled up on him, yet they treated him (and the DA defended them as following established procedure) as if he were an “active shooter” and so shot him at the first sign of what they felt as “threatening” movement.

I feel like we’re running around in circles. We know he wasn’t breaking the law - that is true under any assumptions. Which is why I interpret the question as being about the cops’ state of mind. To rephrase, “given an open-carry state and assumption of him being an adult, why did cops think he was breaking the law - what’s their excuse?”.

342
Targetpractice  Dec 28, 2015 • 4:59:49pm

re: #341 Nyet

I feel like we’re running around in circles. We know he wasn’t breaking the law - that is true under any assumptions. Which is why I interpret the question as being about the cops’ state of mind. To rephrase, “given an open-carry state and assumption of him being an adult, why did cops think he was breaking the law - what’s their excuse?”.

And you pointed to the oft-repeated bit about the dispatcher saying Rice was “pointing” the “gun.” Yet nobody can cite law stating that that was illegal. Or, at the very least, that it warranted treating him as an “active shooter.”

343
BeachDem  Dec 28, 2015 • 5:03:31pm

re: #318 Backwoods_Sleuth

Tamir wasn’t breaking any law when the police arrived. They didn’t give him time to break any laws in their presence.

Ah, but they were going to charge him with “aggravated menacing” and “inducing panic.” …At the end of the report, notice that they say this complaint was “abated by death.”

dailykos.com

344
Nyet  Dec 28, 2015 • 5:04:14pm

re: #342 Targetpractice

If that’s not illegal, I will admit that my reply to Belafon was factually mistaken, but I will also reiterate that if pointing a real gun (and that was the cops’ assumption because the dispatcher didn’t deliver all the info properly) at random people is not illegal, this state of things is nuts.

PS: And again to reiterate, because this thread has shown that people will “read between the lines” whatever they wish to read there: the cops’ actions are indefensible and they should have gone to prison.

345
ObserverArt  Dec 28, 2015 • 5:44:25pm

re: #344 Nyet

If that’s not illegal, I will admit that my reply to Belafon was factually mistaken, but I will also reiterate that if pointing a real gun (and that was the cops’ assumption because the dispatcher didn’t deliver all the info properly) at random people is not illegal, this state of things is nuts.

PS: And again to reiterate, because this thread has shown that people will “read between the lines” whatever they wish to read there: the cops’ actions are indefensible and they should have gone to prison.

And the whole fucking Cleveland Police Department needs to be indicted by the Feds, have an overview board setup to determine policy changes and the further employment of all of the staff and to run the department until all the corruption and bad policy is totally reworked. And even after that, there should be a review board for a few years after the changes to keep an eye out for any slipping backwards into their old ways.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Good Liars at The Libertarian Convention [VIDEO] The Good Liars visit the Libertarian Convention in Washington DC. They interview presidential candidates, talk to someone who thinks people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons, and Starchild. SUPPORT US: http://Herohero.co/thegoodliars SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!NASHVILLE, TN JUNE ...
teleskiguy
Yesterday
Views: 166 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Ranked-Choice Voting Has Challenged the Status Quo. Its Popularity Will Be Tested in November. JUNEAU — Alaska’s new election system — with open primaries and ranked voting — has been a model for those in other states who are frustrated by political polarization and a sense that voters lack real choice at the ...
Cheechako
5 days ago
Views: 166 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0