Detectives in Antarctica

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tampabay.com’s All Eyes blog has striking photos from a National Science Foundation expedition to Antarctica. The group is researching the disappearance of a key part of the food chain, the Antarctic silverfish, from areas in which they used to be plentiful (possibly due to global warming): Detectives in Antarctica: Croker Passage (18 images) | Reporting with a camera.

Antarctic landscape framed by a starboard hole on board the RV Palmer, April 20.

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669 comments
1 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:49:53pm

Cue the Elvis Costello music here at work (no You Tube) :(

2 Kragar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:54:23pm

The change in the oceans salinity due to more liquid water is something we’re just now beginning to consider. How species react to this is going to be very important.

3 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 12:54:25pm

Those photos are beautiful!! Click the linky folks!

4 researchok  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:01:38pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The change in the oceans salinity due to more liquid water is something we’re just now beginning to consider. How species react to this is going to be very important.

I’ve been reading about the acidification of the oceans. Fascinating and scary at the same time.

5 researchok  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:02:59pm

re: #4 researchok

Ocean acidification

6 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:05:08pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The change in the oceans salinity due to more liquid water is something we’re just now beginning to consider. How species react to this is going to be very important.

Actually this has been a major concern in the literature for some time. It is only recently that the MSM has picked up on how much very serious damage to the seas we are doing.

There are very many bad effects to this. Changes in salinity also change currents. The shut down of thermohaline conveyors will have drastic effects on many species, including land life - including us - by shifting global weather patterns.

Another giant issue is acidification of the oceans and resulting ocean anoxia. What people fail to recognize is that ocean anoxia means not enough oxygen in the oceans to support no photosynthsizers and that ocean acidity kills photosythesizers. We are literally talking about processes that will wipe out many species in the oceans - things that we like and depend on and could eventually lead to no life larger than microbes in most parts of the sea.

People need to understand not that the ecosphere is fragile, but rather, even though it is hard to break, we are breaking it right now and that once it is broken it will take millions of years to fix.

7 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:06:27pm

On a more tropical note, tomorrow is Save The Frogs Day. (My brother is on the advisory committee.)

8 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:08:42pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually this has been a major concern in the literature for some time. It is only recently that the MSM has picked up on how much very serious damage to the seas we are doing.

There are very many bad effects to this. Changes in salinity also change currents. The shut down of thermohaline conveyors will have drastic effects on many species, including land life - including us - by shifting global weather patterns.

Another giant issue is acidification of the oceans and resulting ocean anoxia. What people fail to recognize is that ocean anoxia means not enough oxygen in the oceans to support no photosynthsizers and that ocean acidity kills photosythesizers. We are literally talking about processes that will wipe out many species in the oceans - things that we like and depend on and could eventually lead to no life larger than microbes in most parts of the sea.

People need to understand not that the ecosphere is fragile, but rather, even though it is hard to break, we are breaking it right now and that once it is broken it will take millions of years to fix.

climateprogress.org

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:10:10pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote
PIMF

Actually this has been a major concern in the literature for some time. It is only recently that the MSM has picked up on how much very serious damage to the seas we are doing.

There are very many bad effects to this. Changes in salinity also change currents. The shut down of thermohaline conveyors will have drastic effects on many species, including land life - including us - by shifting global weather patterns.

Another giant issue is acidification of the oceans and resulting ocean anoxia. What people fail to recognize is that ocean anoxia means not enough oxygen in the oceans to support nonphotosynthsizers and that ocean acidity kills those species which are photosythesizers. We are literally talking about processes that will wipe out many species in the oceans - things that we like and depend on and could eventually lead to no life larger than microbes in most parts of the sea.

People need to understand not that the ecosphere is fragile, but rather, even though it is hard to break, we are breaking it right now and that once it is broken it will take millions of years to fix.

10 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:10:27pm

re: #8 Walter L. Newton

[Link: climateprogress.org…]

Good link!

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:11:09pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

On a more tropical note, tomorrow is Save The Frogs Day. (My brother is on the advisory committee.)

Frogs are very sensitive to changes in their environment. They are the canaries of many ecospheres.

12 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:11:23pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

I think a lot of people falsely believe in an equilibrium; as in, believe that there is some ideal state for the planet that systems force towards. That’s one of the significant problems; people do not still fully understand that the system is arbitrary, and that biological entities have adapted to it.

People falsely conflate the give-and-take of a biological system— the boom and bust of wolves and rabbits, for example— to the physical systems which may include biological entities but do not have the same relationship at all.

This is the root of some of the sillier “We can just adapt” arguments, as though evolution were something that could happen as quickly as environments change.

13 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:12:24pm

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

Frogs are very sensitive to changes in their environment. They are the canaries of many ecospheres.

I’ve read that for years…We are losing frogs very fast

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:13:21pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

On a more tropical note, tomorrow is Save The Frogs Day. (My brother is on the advisory committee.)

Cool. I’m hoping to have my backyard pond healthy enough this year to sustain a small flock of frogs. They are great slug control.

15 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:13:22pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

On a more tropical note, tomorrow is Save The Frogs Day. (My brother is on the advisory committee.)

I’ll be facebooking that tomorrow morning as my status.

16 researchok  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:15:20pm

re: #12 Obdicut

I think a lot of people falsely believe in an equilibrium; as in, believe that there is some ideal state for the planet that systems force towards. That’s one of the significant problems; people do not still fully understand that the system is arbitrary, and that biological entities have adapted to it.

People falsely conflate the give-and-take of a biological system— the boom and bust of wolves and rabbits, for example— to the physical systems which may include biological entities but do not have the same relationship at all.

This is the root of some of the sillier “We can just adapt” arguments, as though evolution were something that could happen as quickly as environments change.

Big, big truth to that.

Recall too that after Mount St Helen’s blew, they said it would take centuries for nature to reclaim herself. In fact, within 5 years there was evidence of marked recovery.

17 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:15:30pm

re: #11 LudwigVanQuixote

Frogs are very sensitive to changes in their environment. They are the canaries of many ecospheres.

Yep. My brother is tracking the movement of populations to higher altitudes, where they displace other populations, etc. Also tracking the Chytrid Fungus.

In terms of its effect on biodiversity, chytridiomycosis is quite possibly the worst disease in recorded history. First identified in 1998, this potentially lethal skin disease is caused by the chytrid fungus Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis, which has been detected on at least 385 species of amphibians from 36 countries.
18 Kragar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:15:43pm

re: #12 Obdicut

I think a lot of people falsely believe in an equilibrium; as in, believe that there is some ideal state for the planet that systems force towards. That’s one of the significant problems; people do not still fully understand that the system is arbitrary, and that biological entities have adapted to it.

People falsely conflate the give-and-take of a biological system— the boom and bust of wolves and rabbits, for example— to the physical systems which may include biological entities but do not have the same relationship at all.

This is the root of some of the sillier “We can just adapt” arguments, as though evolution were something that could happen as quickly as environments change.

Still, the idea that we can somehow turn back the clock and everything will fix itself is wrong as well. We need to be undoing the damage, as well as making preparations for exisiting in a drastically changed world.

19 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:15:50pm

Operation Frog Pond

A Guide to Building a Pond to Attract Frogs

Hooray! Just what I needed.

20 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:16:52pm

re: #15 darthstar

I’ll be facebooking that tomorrow morning as my status.

I joined Facebook a week ago. O: I guess I’ll figure out how to do what you said.

21 windhorse  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:18:37pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

that would be an “army” of frogs…

:)

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:19:01pm

re: #12 Obdicut

I think a lot of people falsely believe in an equilibrium; as in, believe that there is some ideal state for the planet that systems force towards. That’s one of the significant problems; people do not still fully understand that the system is arbitrary, and that biological entities have adapted to it.

People falsely conflate the give-and-take of a biological system— the boom and bust of wolves and rabbits, for example— to the physical systems which may include biological entities but do not have the same relationship at all.

This is the root of some of the sillier “We can just adapt” arguments, as though evolution were something that could happen as quickly as environments change.

I think you are half right. The Earth reached a certain equilibrium that was conducive to life like ours. What people fail to get is that there can be more than one equilibrium point and the entire reason that tipping points are so terrible is that once you cross one, you are now being forced into a new equilibrium.

That new equilibrium is not so good for us or most species on the planet.

When people make those arguments, I point out that Venus and the Moon are in states of a certain equilibrium too - but that you would not want to live there.

In some sense, it is continuing the fallacy that natural = good, some notion that mother nature will always take care of you. The fact is that AIDS and getting eaten by a shark are both very natural events.

The new equilibrium will be natural in the sense that the laws of physics are obeyed. So soon other “natural things that result from the new equilibrium will be very unpleasant. It will be natural to die from it. Getting eaten by a bear is natural, but so is starving to death because your planet simply can not grow enough food anymore. So is dying from dehydration because you can not find enough fresh water. So is dying from an infection that you had no immunity to, but was introduced into your home by shifting climate patterns forcing new critters to take up residence with you.

23 Kragar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:19:09pm

re: #20 wrenchwench

I joined Facebook a week ago. O: I guess I’ll figure out how to do what you said.

You are dead to me.

/

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:19:54pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Cool. I’m hoping to have my backyard pond healthy enough this year to sustain a small flock of frogs. They are great slug control.

It’s an army of frogs, or a colony. Or a knot of frogs.

I like ‘flock of frogs’ though. I like frogs, in general.

25 ausador  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:20:06pm

Charles you just spoiled my new screenplay idea I was trying to sell to CBS, NCIS Antartica was going to be the next big thing, now hundreds of people will be trying to horn in on the idea.

Of course no one knows that my version was set in post-global warming antartica with tropical scenery and super hot women running around in short-shorts and halter tops amongst the penguins and walrus…dammit…now I gave that away too…

/

26 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:20:08pm

re: #20 wrenchwench

I joined Facebook a week ago. O: I guess I’ll figure out how to do what you said.

On your profile page, you type whatever you want into the ‘what’s on your mind’ field, and under it, click the link button, and paste the URL in that field, then click the ‘attach’ button

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:23:11pm

Best job I never applied for: about ten years ago, they were looking for a ‘frogkeeper’ at the San Francisco Exploratorium.

I was in no way qualified—they wanted at least an MA in biology—but it sounded like a totally wonderful job.

28 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:23:35pm

re: #12 Obdicut

I think a lot of people falsely believe in an equilibrium; as in, believe that there is some ideal state for the planet that systems force towards. That’s one of the significant problems; people do not still fully understand that the system is arbitrary, and that biological entities have adapted to it.

People falsely conflate the give-and-take of a biological system— the boom and bust of wolves and rabbits, for example— to the physical systems which may include biological entities but do not have the same relationship at all.

This is the root of some of the sillier “We can just adapt” arguments, as though evolution were something that could happen as quickly as environments change.

Something will adapt and find a niche. It just may not be us.

29 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:23:45pm

re: #26 darthstar

On your profile page, you type whatever you want into the ‘what’s on your mind’ field, and under it, click the link button, and paste the URL in that field, then click the ‘attach’ button

I’ll participate in anything that won’t assist the remaining five of my 30 cousins in finding me…

30 Kragar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:23:52pm

re: #22 LudwigVanQuixote

So is dying from an infection that you had no immunity to, but was introduced into your home by shifting climate patterns forcing new critters to take up residence with you.

Speaking of which;

Fungal Disease Spreads Through Pacific Northwest

So far, over the past 11 years there have been about 220 cases reported in British Columbia. Since 2004, doctors in Washington and Oregon have reported about 50 cases. Among the total 270 cases, 40 people have died from overwhelming infections of the lungs and brain.

Public health officials aren’t calling it a public health emergency. The fungus can’t be spread from person to person, and there doesn’t seem to be any prospect of an explosive epidemic. But they do want doctors to be on the lookout for cases, because early diagnosis and proper treatment is vital to prevent deaths.

The most striking thing about this fungus is that it’s popping up and establishing itself far afield from its usual range — possibly because of climate change.

“The disease was almost exclusively seen in tropical and subtropical areas of the world,” says Dr. Julie Harris, a specialist in fungal diseases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The hot spots were Australia and Papua New Guinea, along with Egypt and parts of South America.

31 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:25:30pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

He is doing important work. Good for him!

32 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:25:44pm

re: #29 wrenchwench

I’ll participate in anything that won’t assist the remaining five of my 30 cousins in finding me…

My cousin’s wife just ‘friended’ my wife. She said, “I’ll friend your family and their siblings, but do I have to accept every extended cousin and their families?”

33 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:25:44pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Best job I never applied for: about ten years ago, they were looking for a ‘frogkeeper’ at the San Francisco Exploratorium.

I was in no way qualified—they wanted at least an MA in biology—but it sounded like a totally wonderful job.

I love that place!

34 Kragar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:25:46pm

re: #28 recusancy

Something will adapt and find a niche. It just may not be us.

My bets remain on the immortal insect swarms prophesied to take over after the fall of man.

35 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:25:51pm

re: #22 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, what you said was what I was trying to say.

There was an equilibrium back before the atmosphere was well-oxygenated, too, in the precambrian. Then little thingies evolved that put lots of oxygen into the air. That changed the entire face of the earth, wiped out most species, and massively altered the climate.

Now we have a species that’s putting lots of CO2 in the air.

The same thing is going to happen.

en.wikipedia.org

36 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:26:34pm

Everybody’s getting into the explorer mode. Must be why Al has set up a new camp, where he will no doubt spend most of his time measuring the rise in water temperature and sea level, so he can act as Canary in Chief.//
articles.latimes.com
But really…. nine bathrooms?
That’s a lot of retrofitting with low-flow he’s going to have to tackle…..//

37 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:27:30pm

re: #36 tradewind

Everybody’s getting into the explorer mode. Must be why Al has set up a new camp, where he will no doubt spend most of his time measuring the rise in water temperature and sea level, so he can act as Canary in Chief.//
[Link: articles.latimes.com…]
But really… nine bathrooms?
That’s a lot of retrofitting with low-flow he’s going to have to tackle…//

And what does that have to do with silverfish gone missing?

38 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:27:36pm

re: #36 tradewind

What relevance does Al Gore have to the discussion, please?

39 rwdflynavy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:29:07pm

re: #37 Walter L. Newton

And what does that have to do with silverfish gone missing?

Gore ate them?
//

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:30:21pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

Best job I never applied for: about ten years ago, they were looking for a ‘frogkeeper’ at the San Francisco Exploratorium.

I was in no way qualified—they wanted at least an MA in biology—but it sounded like a totally wonderful job.

“What happened to the last frogkeeper?”

“he went native.”

41 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:31:51pm

re: #38 Obdicut

What relevance does Al Gore have to the discussion, please?

I know some people hold him up as a Hypocrite with AGW.. Anytime you and your wife live in a house bigger than Rhode Island you should probably shut the hell up about other peoples Carbon Foot print…

42 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:32:15pm

re: #36 tradewind

OMFGZ! AL GORE!! OH NOEZ!

Seriously…you need to find a better obsession.

43 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:33:16pm

re: #38 Obdicut
Unless I’m reading them wrong, the tags for this story include but are not limited to ’ global warming, climate change, AGW ( certainly Al’s chief area of expertise) and ’ photographs’
(that would be Tipper).
That should satisfy even your most frustrated inner hall monitor.
If not, sorry.

44 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:33:19pm

re: #36 tradewind

Everybody’s getting into the explorer mode. Must be why Al has set up a new camp, where he will no doubt spend most of his time measuring the rise in water temperature and sea level, so he can act as Canary in Chief.//
[Link: articles.latimes.com…]
But really… nine bathrooms?
That’s a lot of retrofitting with low-flow he’s going to have to tackle…//

My shipment of fail arrived! Thanks!

45 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:33:56pm

re: #42 darthstar
Looks like there’s one starting up right here.
Talk amongst yourselves.
But no frogs.//

46 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:34:18pm

re: #41 HoosierHoops

I know some people hold him up as a Hypocrite with AGW.. Anytime you and your wife live in a house bigger than Rhode Island you should probably shut the hell up about other peoples Carbon Foot print…

I think the difference here is that Mr. Gore also has the money to offset his carbon footprint… therefore it’s a zero sum problem. Now, if Gore went around just creating excess carbon intentionally, or without care to his effect on the environment, and was basically telling eveyone to go piss into the wind, then I would agree with you.

47 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:34:19pm

re: #41 HoosierHoops

I know some people hold him up as a Hypocrite with AGW.. Anytime you and your wife live in a house bigger than Rhode Island you should probably shut the hell up about other peoples Carbon Foot print…

Al Gore could live in a Yurt and some people would still complain about his lavish living conditions. For them, AGW means “Al Gore Watch”…

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:34:26pm

re: #40 WindUpBird

“What happened to the last frogkeeper?”

“he went native.”

When you hear a great boing-boing-boing down the hall at night, that’s Dr. Schumacher, hunting flies and frolicking among the lilypads.

49 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:34:30pm

re: #44 WindUpBird
I don’t know where you’re going to find room for it.

50 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:34:39pm

re: #42 darthstar

OMFGZ! AL GORE!! OH NOEZ!

Seriously…you need to find a better obsession.

AL GORE RAAAAAAAAGE

51 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:34:51pm

re: #41 HoosierHoops

Al Gore is largely irrelevant. To the extent that he is not, he has produced some excellent, accessible resources of information on AGW. He also is a rich dude who acts like a rich dude, but unlike other rich dudes, he has actually spent a fortune converting his house into one that’s a model of green technology.

I wish the face of AGW was a scientist, not Gore. But in the end, it probably had to be some rich guy, and he’s the one.

He has no relevance to the actual science, except that he’s done a very good job of presenting it in a few different formats.

52 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:35:00pm

re: #50 WindUpBird

Heh…I almost used that image.

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:35:17pm

re: #41 HoosierHoops

I know some people hold him up as a Hypocrite with AGW.. Anytime you and your wife live in a house bigger than Rhode Island you should probably shut the hell up about other peoples Carbon Foot print…

True. But you can slao notice that what he says is still true whether he is a hypocrite or not.

The genesis of mainstream GOP bashing of AGW was an outgrowth of personally attacking Al Gore. Gore deserves credit for being the only major politician to correctly point out the magnitude of the problem. Unfortunately, for a large segment of the populace he was a lightning rod whose very presence allowed them to dismiss the facts.

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:35:19pm

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

When you hear a great boing-boing-boing down the hall at night, that’s Dr. Schumacher, hunting flies and frolicking among the lilypads.

“I saw a snail crawling across a straight razor. That’s Uncle Carl, he’s pretty cool.”

55 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:35:40pm

re: #41 HoosierHoops
You should see the farm in Caney Fork, unless they’ve cleaned it up considerably in the past few years.
Poster child for pollution.

56 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:36:43pm

re: #39 rwdflynavy
Not unless they were battered and deep fried.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:36:57pm

I can deal with Al Gore.

Julia Butterfly Hill, however, still makes me insane.

58 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:37:22pm

I’m missing the frogs this year. Since we had such a dry winter the water levels are way down. The difference between this year and last year is incredible. Last year at this time you couldn’t walk in the back parts of my property without hip waders. During frog breeding time the water would look like it was boiling there were so many. It was so loud you could hear them in the house with the windows closed. If you walked through the grass there’d be frogs jumping out of the way. Mowing the front lawn always gave me the heebies because I expected to run over them.

I just came in from a survey. Two frogs around the pond and not a single one in the grass. I was able to walk in the back with just my shoes. It’s still mushy in parts but no standing water. For the last couple years we’ve hand a couple of sandhill cranes that came in the spring and nested in the back. It was a supermarket for them. I saw them return this year. They checked things out for a day or two and I haven’t seen them since. There’s nothing for them to eat in there usual place.

I can still hear frogs but they way back in the distance now.

Anyways I hope this is just a one off year. Regardless it’s still a really great example of how when one thing goes or changes it has a wide effect on everything else.

I’m sure as spring goes on I’ll be seeing others differences as well. Usually my place swarms with dragon flys. It was one of the reasons I fell in love with the place when I first came to it. Last year I counted about 10 different types. I’m wondering how this is going to effect them too. Shall see I guess.

59 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:37:28pm

re: #56 tradewind

Not unless they were battered and deep fried.

with green chilies…

60 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:37:41pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

I can deal with Al Gore.

Julia Butterfly Hill, however, still makes me insane.

Is she related to Tre Arrow?

61 rwdflynavy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:38:07pm

re: #56 tradewind

Not unless they were battered and deep fried.

re: #59 brookly red

with green chilies…

Great, now I’m hungry!

62 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:38:35pm

re: #55 tradewind

You should see the farm in Caney Fork, unless they’ve cleaned it up considerably in the past few years.
Poster child for pollution.

It doesn’t matter one once. As long as Al Gore has the money and the resources to clean up his mess and end up being a zero burden on the planet, he can sit in his own shit if he wants to. We still have the freedom in this country to attend to our affairs without having someone like you try to dictate every move we make. You’re not Al Gore’s nanny… or nanny state.

63 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:39:11pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually this has been a major concern in the literature for some time. It is only recently that the MSM has picked up on how much very serious damage to the seas we are doing.

There are very many bad effects to this. Changes in salinity also change currents. The shut down of thermohaline conveyors will have drastic effects on many species, including land life - including us - by shifting global weather patterns.

Another giant issue is acidification of the oceans and resulting ocean anoxia. What people fail to recognize is that ocean anoxia means not enough oxygen in the oceans to support no photosynthsizers and that ocean acidity kills photosythesizers. We are literally talking about processes that will wipe out many species in the oceans - things that we like and depend on and could eventually lead to no life larger than microbes in most parts of the sea.

People need to understand not that the ecosphere is fragile, but rather, even though it is hard to break, we are breaking it right now and that once it is broken it will take millions of years to fix.

The CO2 levels will right themselves in about 50 thousand years. That’s the time it’ll take weathering to mop up the pulse we’re putting into the system. It can’t be more than a pulse because if nothing else stops us, running out of coal will.

Life on earth evinces explosive fecundity when the environment is favorable but little-occupied. The moment the oceans regain a pH akin to what we now have, they’ll be exploited by larger life forms moving in from estuaries.

Within another fifty thousand years there will be a new, vibrant community of life in the oceans, complete with big, showy species and plenty of fish for all.

So not to worry; the problem will fix itself up within a mere hundred thousand years. Nothing, really, in the larger scheme of things.

For us mortals, though, that’s still a long time to wait. We’d be better off not breaking it in the first place.

64 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:39:12pm

re: #57 SanFranciscoZionist

Julia Butterfly Hill, however, still makes me insane.

Why?

65 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:39:21pm

re: #28 recusancy

Something will adapt and find a niche. It just may not be us.

There’s “pond scum” on Mars looking to expand. Watch out for those fake “meteorites”…

66 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:39:49pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

It doesn’t matter one once. As long as Al Gore has the money and the resources to clean up his mess and end up being a zero burden on the planet, he can sit in his own shit if he wants to. We still have the freedom in this country to attend to our affairs without having someone like you try to dictate every move we make. You’re not Al Gore’s nanny… or nanny state.

Amen, Walter…motherfuckin’ amen!

67 rwdflynavy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:39:49pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

It doesn’t matter one once. As long as Al Gore has the money and the resources to clean up his mess and end up being a zero burden on the planet, he can sit in his own shit if he wants to. We still have the freedom in this country to attend to our affairs without having someone like you try to dictate every move we make. You’re not Al Gore’s nanny… or nanny state.

What if Al Gore wants a Happy Meal with a toy Walter?
//

68 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:40:05pm

re: #65 oaktree

There’s “pond scum” on Mars looking to expand. Watch out for those fake “meteorites”…

What “fake meteorites” are you talking about?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:40:52pm

re: #60 WindUpBird

Is she related to Tre Arrow?

Dunno who he is. She was a tree-sitter on a big redwood in the late 90s, which is fine, but she was practically canonized by the Bay Area environmental crowd, and then she started a foundation—and I didn’t apply to work there because the workplace description was so obnoxious.

I have nothing rational against her, she just represents in my mind everything that annoys me about really devout environmental activists.

70 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:41:13pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton
Okay, I guess. Not sure about that first sentence.
It wouldn’t have taken a lot of money to clean up what was wrong that I saw. It’s just that no one cared, because no one saw it.
I’m sure it’s been spiffed up now that every one has a cell phone with a camera.

71 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:41:17pm

re: #67 rwdflynavy

What if Al Gore wants a Happy Meal with a toy Walter?
//

He’s an adult, he can make his own decision on how much he wants to eat and how healthy or unhealthy the effects will be. But children can’t make those decisions.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:41:25pm

re: #64 recusancy

Why?

It’s irrational.

73 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:41:28pm

re: #51 Obdicut

Al Gore is largely irrelevant. To the extent that he is not, he has produced some excellent, accessible resources of information on AGW. He also is a rich dude who acts like a rich dude, but unlike other rich dudes, he has actually spent a fortune converting his house into one that’s a model of green technology.

I wish the face of AGW was a scientist, not Gore. But in the end, it probably had to be some rich guy, and he’s the one.

He has no relevance to the actual science, except that he’s done a very good job of presenting it in a few different formats.

i agree that he’s largely irrelevant, but he was opposed to building more nuclear power plants. i spell hypocrite A-N-T-I-N-U-K-E

74 Jack Burton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:41:36pm

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

What “fake meteorites” are you talking about?

The ones that are actually space craft bringing Martian microbes here to overrun our ecosystem and take over… At least I think that’s what was being implied.

75 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:41:45pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s irrational.

Fair enough.

76 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:42:15pm

re: #36 tradewind

Everybody’s getting into the explorer mode. Must be why Al has set up a new camp, where he will no doubt spend most of his time measuring the rise in water temperature and sea level, so he can act as Canary in Chief.//
[Link: articles.latimes.com…]
But really… nine bathrooms?
That’s a lot of retrofitting with low-flow he’s going to have to tackle…//

Dude do me a favor. Seriously.

I get that you hate Al Gore. Good for you.

Al Gore is not one of the scientists bringing you evidence of AGW and its consequences.

Even bringing Gore up in this discussion is nothing more than a silly distraction that falsely invalidates the main point.

It is rather like having a gun pointed at someone, people commenting on how bad getting shot is, and you going off on a screed about Remington’s sex life. It makes no difference and only belittles a global problem with catastrophic consequences.

77 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:42:43pm

re: #67 rwdflynavy
Gives new meaning to the expression
’ One fry toy short of a happy meal.’

78 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:43:06pm

re: #63 lostlakehiker

The CO2 levels will right themselves in about 50 thousand years. That’s the time it’ll take weathering to mop up the pulse we’re putting into the system. It can’t be more than a pulse because if nothing else stops us, running out of coal will.

Life on earth evinces explosive fecundity when the environment is favorable but little-occupied. The moment the oceans regain a pH akin to what we now have, they’ll be exploited by larger life forms moving in from estuaries.

Within another fifty thousand years there will be a new, vibrant community of life in the oceans, complete with big, showy species and plenty of fish for all.

So not to worry; the problem will fix itself up within a mere hundred thousand years. Nothing, really, in the larger scheme of things.

For us mortals, though, that’s still a long time to wait. We’d be better off not breaking it in the first place.

Great post - but I would also add how many of us will get killed off waiting for that fix…

79 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:43:40pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

That’s great, Ace. He’s still irrelevant to the actual subject of the thread, and people who bring him up every time an AGW conversation comes up are tiresome in the extreme.

80 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:44:31pm

re: #74 ArchangelMichael

The ones that are actually space craft bringing Martian microbes here to overrun our ecosystem and take over… At least I think that’s what was being implied.

Do you have a link to this bullshit or is this something you’re making up. There are planetary meteorites, both from the moon and Mars that have been found on earth, but they are not fake. I myself have a 20mg fragment of a lunar meteorite and a 30mg fragment of a Martian meteorite.

There has been no report of “fake” Martian meteorites that I have heard of… I collect meteorites and stay well informed of what’s flaoting around on the meteorite market.

81 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:44:53pm

re: #46 Walter L. Newton

I think the difference here is that Mr. Gore also has the money to offset his carbon footprint… therefore it’s a zero sum problem. Now, if Gore went around just creating excess carbon intentionally, or without care to his effect on the environment, and was basically telling eveyone to go piss into the wind, then I would agree with you.

Gore has that money but not as a result of providing value to others, like say Bill Gates. Instead, Gore has his money because he’s well connected to politicians who will take it from others and give it to him. This is Roman-Republic excess and corruption, and it’s dangerous. Also, carbon offsets are almost entirely fraudulent. Rare is the project that actually stands and delivers on its promise to suck CO2 out of the air and keep it out.

This whole cap and trade approach to CO2 is nonsense. It’s a fraud from top to bottom. A straight tax on the implicit carbon content of products is the only sensible way to point Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” at this tragedy-of-the-commons problem so that ordinary people, trying to make their way, find themselves making environmentally tolerable economic decisions.

82 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:44:54pm

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

I get that you hate Al Gore.

Then you don’t get it, because I don’t.

83 Jack Burton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:45:41pm

re: #80 Walter L. Newton

Do you have a link to this bullshit or is this something you’re making up. There are planetary meteorites, both from the moon and Mars that have been found on earth, but they are not fake. I myself have a 20mg fragment of a lunar meteorite and a 30mg fragment of a Martian meteorite.

There has been no report of “fake” Martian meteorites that I have heard of… I collect meteorites and stay well informed of what’s flaoting around on the meteorite market.

It was a joke Walter.

84 rwdflynavy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:46:19pm

re: #83 ArchangelMichael

It was a joke Walter.

He doesn’t appear to be in a joking mood at the moment…

85 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:46:23pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno who he is. She was a tree-sitter on a big redwood in the late 90s, which is fine, but she was practically canonized by the Bay Area environmental crowd, and then she started a foundation—and I didn’t apply to work there because the workplace description was so obnoxious.

I have nothing rational against her, she just represents in my mind everything that annoys me about really devout environmental activists.

Isn’t it amazing how “overly devout ___ ruins it for the sane ___”?

I think it might actually be an equation…it’s true wherever i look…

86 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:46:48pm

re: #79 Obdicut
That’s why there’s a little scroll thingy on your screen.
Unless you’d just rather bitch and moan about every post you find irksome, check it out.

87 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:47:16pm

re: #79 Obdicut

That’s great, Ace. He’s still irrelevant to the actual subject of the thread, and people who bring him up every time an AGW conversation comes up are tiresome in the extreme.

I wish I had more up dings to give you!

88 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:47:18pm

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

He’s an adult, he can make his own decision on how much he wants to eat and how healthy or unhealthy the effects will be. But children can’t make those decisions.

then we should stop giving the 8-yr old a sawbuck and the keys to the Honda;)

89 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:47:23pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig..I was saying some people consider him a hypocrite.. I voted for Gore in 2000.. If he had won my Son would have never ended up in Iraq.. I know that for a fact in my heart…I have no issues with him..But many do..
/Good to see you here today

90 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:47:24pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

He’s not against nuke power.

91 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:48:12pm

re: #88 Aceofwhat?

then we should stop giving the 8-yr old a sawbuck and the keys to the Honda;)

WHo did that? Do you have a link?

92 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:48:48pm

re: #79 Obdicut

That’s great, Ace. He’s still irrelevant to the actual subject of the thread, and people who bring him up every time an AGW conversation comes up are tiresome in the extreme.

then say that.

when you say “he’s irrelevant but…

…and…

…and…”

then you’re engaging said tiresome subject. why are you allowed to engage it but not me?

93 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:49:15pm

re: #89 HoosierHoops

Ludwig..I was saying some people consider him a hypocrite.. I voted for Gore in 2000.. If he had won my Son would have never ended up in Iraq.. I know that for a fact in my heart…I have no issues with him..But many do..
/Good to see you here today

It is always a pleasure to see you here Hoops! I voted for Gore too.

94 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:50:31pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno who he is. She was a tree-sitter on a big redwood in the late 90s, which is fine, but she was practically canonized by the Bay Area environmental crowd, and then she started a foundation—and I didn’t apply to work there because the workplace description was so obnoxious.

I have nothing rational against her, she just represents in my mind everything that annoys me about really devout environmental activists.

Dumpster Muffin really annoys me.

Youtube Video

95 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:50:32pm

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

WHo did that? Do you have a link?

how else does the 8-year old get to the drive-through?

or if no one is doing that…then your point is that you are concerned about the marketing of an item to a demographic with no ability to procure said item without assistance from adults?

96 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:50:51pm

re: #81 lostlakehiker
Gore’s original money source actually flows from Big Oil, through Armand Hammer’s Oxy Petroleum.
Nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn’t make him evil.
Just a tad hypocritical in his public pronouncements.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:52:09pm

re: #94 Alouette

Dumpster Muffin really annoys me.

[Video]

Oh, Dumpster Muffin is just another Berkeley kid with issues.

Le sigh.

98 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:53:21pm

re: #90 recusancy

He’s not against nuke power.

Dear gracious, did you actually read that link??

he’s not opposed to it in theory but doesn’t think it can play a measurable role?

utter bullshit.

but shhh, we’re being tiresome.

99 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:53:26pm

re: #96 tradewind

Gore’s original money source actually flows from Big Oil, through Armand Hammer’s Oxy Petroleum.
Nothing wrong with that, and it certainly doesn’t make him evil.
Just a tad hypocritical in his public pronouncements.

So should we not be dealing with global warming? Should we not be lessening the amount of CO2 and other GHG’s that we spew into the air? Or does Al Gore give you a straw man to punch so you don’t have to engage in the substance of the matter?

100 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:54:14pm

re: #95 Aceofwhat?

how else does the 8-year old get to the drive-through?

or if no one is doing that…then your point is that you are concerned about the marketing of an item to a demographic with no ability to procure said item without assistance from adults?

Then why do we have laws for… let’s think about it… car seats?

101 KingKenrod  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:55:02pm

re: #90 recusancy

He’s not against nuke power.

He’s certainly talking it down - does Al Gore think talking down nuclear power will help?

His point that large reactors are too expensive to build and we have to wait for smaller reactors to be designed is idiotic.

His point about nuke proliferation is a good one; but compared to an AGW global catastrophe, it’s a manageable problem.

He’s talking down nuclear power because he prefers other cleaner green alternatives, ones that he happens to be heavily invested in.

102 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:55:32pm

re: #98 Aceofwhat?

Dear gracious, did you actually read that link??

he’s not opposed to it in theory but doesn’t think it can play a measurable role?

utter bullshit.

but shhh, we’re being tiresome.

“While I am not opposed to nuclear power and expect to see some modest increased use of nuclear reactors, I doubt that they will play a significant role in most countries as a new source of electricity.”

I’m pretty sure that means he’s not opposed. And this red herring is starting to smell up this thread.

103 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:55:49pm

What a great set of photos (at the link, at the top, you know, the topic of this post). I didn’t realize that the initiation of pollywogs applied to those who cross a polar circle, as well as the equator. The last photo shows why you can’t trust those tricksy scientismists. They wear their underwear on the outside!

104 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:56:18pm

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

Then why do we have laws for… let’s think about it… car seats?

because not putting kids in car seats twice per month will absolutely kill kids.

taking kids to the drive-through twice per month kills nothing.

next?

105 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:56:27pm

re: #92 Aceofwhat?

Oh for fuck’s sake.

I’m going to do some work.

106 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:56:40pm

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

We still have the freedom in this country to attend to our affairs without having someone like you try to dictate every move we make


You couldn’t be more right, Walter. I’m not going to be the one who tells you how much salt, sugar, or fat you will be allowed to eat, I will keep my hands off all vending machines in your county, and I promise I will never stop you on a ski slope to make sure you have on a helmet.
You’re preaching to the choir there.

107 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:57:03pm

re: #101 KingKenrod

He’s certainly talking it down - does Al Gore think talking down nuclear power will help?

His point that large reactors are too expensive to build and we have to wait for smaller reactors to be designed is idiotic.

His point about nuke proliferation is a good one; but compared to an AGW global catastrophe, it’s a manageable problem.

He’s talking down nuclear power because he prefers other cleaner green alternatives, ones that he happens to be heavily invested in.

So? Is capitalism not ok when the product being sold may actually help the earth?

108 ausador  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:57:48pm

re: #36 tradewind

Seems the line between “comedy” and “snark” is being drawn more narrowly here every day, doesn’t it?

If you make a completely serious and scathing post about the right but add a “sarc tag” to disguise it as “humor” at the end you get updings. If you in the least way impugn anyone on the left, even when it is meant as actual humor you get downdings aplenty.

Sarah Palin= You can say anything, literally anything, even call her a slut and get updings (yes that did happen here).

Al Gore= You have to be respectful and be very careful to address only shortfalls in his character that you can prove via links to authoritative sources, even then you will still probably get downdinged.

Naw, there is double standard or liberal bias, our posters are far and away above that, (I wish).

109 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:58:20pm

re: #102 recusancy

“While I am not opposed to nuclear power and expect to see some modest increased use of nuclear reactors, I doubt that they will play a significant role in most countries as a new source of electricity.”

I’m pretty sure that means he’s not opposed. And this red herring is starting to smell up this thread.

then why are you still talking about it?

110 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:58:31pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, Dumpster Muffin is just another Berkeley kid with issues.

Le sigh.

As a teacher, I would think you would be supportive of her creative protesting and the fact that she is molding a unique and very special set of values for herself. I wish more kids had this fervor for issues instead of just sitting in front of a computer game.

Dumpster Muffin is a folk hero in the vain of a whole line of steel-willed American folk heroes who embody the spirit of this country, the spirit that shaped this country, but a spirit that is rarely seen outside of some old movies or dog-eared paperbacks.

Dumpster Muffin rocks.

111 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:58:42pm

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

Then why do we have laws for… let’s think about it… car seats?

I started driving when I was 8 years old…just back roads in the 62 Willys at night while my older brother stood on the seat with his .22 looking for rattlesnakes. When I was 11 years old, I got a job running cows through a chute for team ropers at an arena two miles from my parent’s house. I’d drive the jeep to the second cattle guard (about half way and short of the county road) then walk the rest…when I turned 14, I was allowed to drive the full distance.

Oh, and I only drove in town and on the freeway once when I was eleven. My oldest brother (17 at the time) took me to the drive-in to see a movie with his friends…he got too drunk and passed out, so I had to drive him home (it was only about 15 miles though).

112 Kragar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 1:59:20pm

re: #94 Alouette

Dumpster Muffin really annoys me.

[Video]

I could think of some creative ways to get the dumbass down.

113 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:00:09pm

re: #105 Obdicut

Oh for fuck’s sake.

I’m going to do some work.

dude. if it’s tiresome, sigh and scroll. if it’s not, engage. engaging an item and then turning around and yelling ‘tiresome!’ to someone else who replies is just bad form.

rocket science, this isn’t.

114 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:00:48pm

re: #108 ausador

*chortle*

115 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:01:31pm

re: #106 tradewind

You couldn’t be more right, Walter. I’m not going to be the one who tells you how much salt, sugar, or fat you will be allowed to eat, I will keep my hands off all vending machines in your county, and I promise I will never stop you on a ski slope to make sure you have on a helmet.
You’re preaching to the choir there.

Then stop complaining about Al Gore.

116 KingKenrod  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:01:39pm

re: #107 recusancy

So? Is capitalism not ok when the product being sold may actually help the earth?

I applaud his capitalism. I hope he makes a shitload of green money. Really, I do. But he is clearly arguing nuclear isn’t the answer, and I think it is.

117 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:02:08pm

BBAIB - got to get ready for work…

118 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:02:27pm

re: #70 tradewind

Okay, I guess. Not sure about that first sentence.
It wouldn’t have taken a lot of money to clean up what was wrong that I saw. It’s just that no one cared, because no one saw it.
I’m sure it’s been spiffed up now that every one has a cell phone with a camera.

Too bad you don’t have any pics. I guess we’ll take your word for it.

119 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:02:49pm

re: #108 ausador
Pretty much.
Respect should be a two-way street, not a cult de sac.
Have a nice afternoon…. it’s gorgeous to the max here.

120 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:02:51pm

re: #116 KingKenrod

I applaud his capitalism. I hope he makes a shitload of green money. Really, I do. But he is clearly arguing nuclear isn’t the answer, and I think it is.

Ok. But he’s not against it. He just has a different answer to the problem.

121 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:03:22pm

re: #108 ausador

If Sarah was a slut I might have more respect for her.

I don’t mind if people are critical of Al Gore, but so far the only thing I’ve seen people complain about is the fact that he releases CO2 when he breathes and methane when he farts. These kinds of things are a little beyond a person’s control.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:03:37pm

re: #108 ausador

Seems the line between “comedy” and “snark” is being drawn more narrowly here every day, doesn’t it?

If you make a completely serious and scathing post about the right but add a “sarc tag” to disguise it as “humor” at the end you get updings. If you in the least way impugn anyone on the left, even when it is meant as actual humor you get downdings aplenty.

Sarah Palin= You can say anything, literally anything, even call her a slut and get updings (yes that did happen here).

Al Gore= You have to be respectful and be very careful to address only shortfalls in his character that you can prove via links to authoritative sources, even then you will still probably get downdinged.

Naw, there is double standard or liberal bias, our posters are far and away above that, (I wish).

Both ‘teams’ around here operate with bias and double standards. Some of us try to avoid it.

But acting as though criticism is coercion and only in one direction is a bit silly.

123 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:03:44pm

re: #81 lostlakehiker

Gore has that money but not as a result of providing value to others, like say Bill Gates. Instead, Gore has his money because he’s well connected to politicians who will take it from others and give it to him. This is Roman-Republic excess and corruption, and it’s dangerous. Also, carbon offsets are almost entirely fraudulent. Rare is the project that actually stands and delivers on its promise to suck CO2 out of the air and keep it out.

This whole cap and trade approach to CO2 is nonsense. It’s a fraud from top to bottom. A straight tax on the implicit carbon content of products is the only sensible way to point Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” at this tragedy-of-the-commons problem so that ordinary people, trying to make their way, find themselves making environmentally tolerable economic decisions.


Just curious, do you feel that way about George W. Bush? He was a failure as a business man and was propped up by his daddy’s connections.

124 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:04:01pm

re: #120 recusancy

Ok. But he’s not against it. He just has a different answer to the problem.

he does?

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:07:59pm

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

As a teacher, I would think you would be supportive of her creative protesting and the fact that she is molding a unique and very special set of values for herself. I wish more kids had this fervor for issues instead of just sitting in front of a computer game.

Dumpster Muffin is a folk hero in the vain of a whole line of steel-willed American folk heroes who embody the spirit of this country, the spirit that shaped this country, but a spirit that is rarely seen outside of some old movies or dog-eared paperbacks.

Dumpster Muffin rocks.

Sort of like Johnny Appleseed. But, you know, less with the sowing of invasive European species.

126 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:08:03pm

re: #124 Aceofwhat?

he does?

That was an example of abuse of the downding, in my opinion. You can’t just downding someone when they are debating you. I think I’ve only used it once.

127 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:08:10pm

re: #115 Walter L. Newton
Okay, I was complaining. I’m really upset. Personally irritated by it. Ruins my afternoon.//
Gawdamighty. If the LA Times thinks it’s breaking-news-worthy that he bought the place, I don’t see why it is such a problem for you to see in a post.
That’s all.

128 bratwurst  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:09:01pm

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

129 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:09:22pm

re: #120 recusancy

Ok. But he’s not against it. He just has a different answer to the problem.

What is his answer?

I don’t care how Gore makes money or how much he has or anything else.

What irks me is the lecturing tone he takes with the rest of us, when his carbon footprint is MUCH larger than mine will ever be.

130 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:10:00pm

re: #123 CarleeCork
Last time I looked Dubya was not running around preaching to the nation that the sky was falling, the sea was rising, the ice was melting, and they’d better start re-using their toilet paper. ( Or Something).

131 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:10:08pm

re: #128 bratwurst

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

Education; but I think education is the answer to everything.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:10:22pm

re: #119 tradewind

Pretty much.
Respect should be a two-way street, not a cult de sac.
Have a nice afternoon… it’s gorgeous to the max here.

It should be a two-way street, but it’s absolutely silly to imply that it exists currently as only a one-way street. What we got here is a two-way with the good and the bad going up and down.

133 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:10:47pm

re: #126 tnguitarist

That was an example of abuse of the downding, in my opinion. You can’t just downding someone when they are debating you. I think I’ve only used it once.

thanks.

i agree completely, but then again, i don’t mind.

i think it says something about folks who downding just for having the opposite position in a debate. not something good, mind you, but something…

134 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:11:00pm

re: #129 reine.de.tout

What is his answer?

I don’t care how Gore makes money or how much he has or anything else.

What irks me is the lecturing tone he takes with the rest of us, when his carbon footprint is MUCH larger than mine will ever be.

Good grief.
From a link above, Al’s new digs:


The couple spent $8,875,000 on an ocean-view villa on 1.5 acres with a swimming pool, spa and fountains, a real estate source familiar with the deal confirms. The Italian-style house has six fireplaces, five bedrooms and nine bathrooms.

I’m happy for him and his family that they can live so comfortably.

But don’t lecture me because I drive a Lincoln.

135 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:11:01pm

re: #129 reine.de.tout
I don’t care how many ” offsets” you pretend to buy, nine bathrooms in a vacation house is …
Not so Green.
Just saying.

136 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:12:12pm

re: #129 reine.de.tout

What is his answer?

I don’t care how Gore makes money or how much he has or anything else.

What irks me is the lecturing tone he takes with the rest of us, when his carbon footprint is MUCH larger than mine will ever be.

He wrote a book on solutions.

137 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:12:20pm

re: #135 tradewind

You’re assuming that 9 people are constantly dropping the kids off at the pool and flushing 24/7.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:12:27pm

re: #121 darthstar

If Sarah was a slut I might have more respect for her.

I don’t mind if people are critical of Al Gore, but so far the only thing I’ve seen people complain about is the fact that he releases CO2 when he breathes and methane when he farts. These kinds of things are a little beyond a person’s control.


The two things I most see are that he leads a wealthy international lifestyle, which of necessity means he’s maintaining a large personal carbon footprint (and people feel personally affronted, as a result, when they imagine him asking them to make sacrifices).

And also concern about his investment in green industries, which I don’t get at all.

139 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:12:40pm

re: #133 Aceofwhat?

thanks.

i agree completely, but then again, i don’t mind.

i think it says something about folks who downding just for having the opposite position in a debate. not something good, mind you, but something…

And then never answering the question you put to them that caused their downding.

140 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:12:41pm

re: #130 tradewind

Last time I looked Dubya was not running around preaching to the nation that the sky was falling, the sea was rising, the ice was melting, and they’d better start re-using their toilet paper. ( Or Something).


I wasn’t commenting on Gore preaching, I was simply asking a question regarding how he “earned” his money vs how others earned theirs.

So sorry to offend.

141 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:12:59pm

re: #135 tradewind

I don’t care how many ” offsets” you pretend to buy, nine bathrooms in a vacation house is …
Not so Green.
Just saying.

I want to be more green. Can I mail you my shit and you can flush it along with yours? I’d really like to save some water here.

142 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:13:02pm

re: #128 bratwurst

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

yep.

an end to the whining about pre-existing conditions and baaad insurance companies, at least as it pertains to this subject.

guess what? you’re obese? ok. it is going to cost you a fucking fortune to get insurance.

don’t like it?

run, fatboy, run!

143 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:13:36pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist
Ideally, and you’re probably right more often than not about that.
Sometimes, though, …..
Who Let The Dogs Out.//
Maybe not such a bad thing after all. Who knows? The venting may be saving someone’s poor pet from a swift one.

144 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:13:45pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

I think I recall Cousteau talking about damage to the oceans since the 60’s. Way ahead of his time.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:13:59pm

re: #121 darthstar

If Sarah was a slut I might have more respect for her.

I don’t mind if people are critical of Al Gore, but so far the only thing I’ve seen people complain about is the fact that he releases CO2 when he breathes and methane when he farts. These kinds of things are a little beyond a person’s control.

Also, when we talk about personal attacks on Palin, we’re basically talking Cato, maybe Ludwig, and some people cheer, and some people tell them to shut up, and Dark_Falcon always defends Palin’s honor.

146 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:14:51pm

re: #134 reine.de.tout

I’m happy for him and his family that they can live so comfortably.

But don’t lecture me because I drive a Lincoln.

you forgot that nuclear power isn’t the answer in the near-to-medium term…because Al doesn’t own much in the way of nuclear energy ventures…

(oh NOES he didn’t;)

147 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:14:52pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, when we talk about personal attacks on Palin, we’re basically talking Cato, maybe Ludwig, and some people cheer, and some people tell them to shut up, and Dark_Falcon always defends Palin’s honor.

He’s pretty consistent that way, DF…strongly defends McCain too.

148 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:15:27pm

re: #140 CarleeCork
Back at’ cha on the last one.

149 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:15:33pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

The two things I most see are that he leads a wealthy international lifestyle, which of necessity means he’s maintaining a large personal carbon footprint (and people feel personally affronted, as a result, when they imagine him asking them to make sacrifices).

And also concern about his investment in green industries, which I don’t get at all.

Yes.
I feel personally affronted when he asks me to make sacrifices, drive less-safe cars, yada yada yada, when does not seem to be inclined to reduce his carbon footprint.

Yes. It is personally aggravating to me.

He can support and promote any “green” thing he wants, especially if what he is supporting will make it affordable for me to reduce my carbon footprint.

But don’t lecture me ‘cause I drive a gas-guzzling vehicle, and then have several homes that include spas, fountains, swimming pools and nine bathrooms.

150 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:16:25pm

re: #139 reine.de.tout

And then never answering the question you put to them that caused their downding.

i tend to presume, quite vocally, that lack of said answer = tacit assent that i am right (and hawt…as long as i’m at it;)

151 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:17:39pm

re: #149 reine.de.tout

Yes.
I feel personally affronted when he asks me to make sacrifices, drive less-safe cars, yada yada yada, when does not seem to be inclined to reduce his carbon footprint.

Yes. It is personally aggravating to me.

He can support and promote any “green” thing he wants, especially if what he is supporting will make it affordable for me to reduce my carbon footprint.

But don’t lecture me ‘cause I drive a gas-guzzling vehicle, and then have several homes that include spas, fountains, swimming pools and nine bathrooms.

Then don’t lecture me or anyone about our federal debt we you don’t care about the carbon debt. Al Gore aside. Both will be paid for by future generations.

152 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:18:09pm

re: #146 Aceofwhat?

you forgot that nuclear power isn’t the answer in the near-to-medium term…because Al doesn’t own much in the way of nuclear energy ventures…

(oh NOES he didn’t;)

You know - I don’t care what he supports or the reasons for it.

I really don’t.

I just really really despise the thundering lectures about how “we” must reduce our carbon footprint, drive the vehicles he has chosen as “best”, and all the while his carbon footprint is much bigger than mine in my entire lifetime will be.

153 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:19:06pm

re: #151 recusancy

Then don’t lecture me or anyone about our federal debt we you don’t care about the carbon debt. Al Gore aside. Both will be paid for by future generations.

I haven’t lectured you about debt.
Find a post where I have.
Don’t you DARE make any assumptions about me.

154 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:19:35pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually this has been a major concern in the literature for some time. It is only recently that the MSM has picked up on how much very serious damage to the seas we are doing.

There are very many bad effects to this. Changes in salinity also change currents. The shut down of thermohaline conveyors will have drastic effects on many species, including land life - including us - by shifting global weather patterns.

Another giant issue is acidification of the oceans and resulting ocean anoxia. What people fail to recognize is that ocean anoxia means not enough oxygen in the oceans to support no photosynthsizers and that ocean acidity kills photosythesizers. We are literally talking about processes that will wipe out many species in the oceans - things that we like and depend on and could eventually lead to no life larger than microbes in most parts of the sea.

People need to understand not that the ecosphere is fragile, but rather, even though it is hard to break, we are breaking it right now and that once it is broken it will take millions of years to fix.

Scientist Anthony Hallam has done a lot of the pioneering work on mass extinctions via sea level changes and ocean anoxia. You can find a lot of his stuff on JSTOR if you can get access or you can go to Science online and get a free subscription to some of the content.

Sepkoski, Raum and Jablonski are giants in the field of paleontology and mass extinctions. An awful lot of experienced people think we are now in the 6th mass extinction of the phanerozoic…and humans are driving it.

155 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:19:59pm

re: #152 reine.de.tout

You know - I don’t care what he supports or the reasons for it.

I really don’t.

I just really really despise the thundering lectures about how “we” must reduce our carbon footprint, drive the vehicles he has chosen as “best”, and all the while his carbon footprint is much bigger than mine in my entire lifetime will be.


Don’t all millionaires live like he does?

156 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:20:22pm

re: #153 reine.de.tout

I haven’t lectured you about debt.
Find a post where I have.
Don’t you DARE make any assumptions about me.

Just a general point about a parallel hypocrisy on the right.

157 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:20:24pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, when we talk about personal attacks on Palin, we’re basically talking Cato, maybe Ludwig, and some people cheer, and some people tell them to shut up, and Dark_Falcon always defends Palin’s honor.

Yes, but my attacks on Palin are based on the fact that she really is incompetent to any political job she would take.

I wouldn’t hire someone without legs to run a marathon either.

158 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:20:57pm

re: #136 recusancy

He wrote a book on solutions.

right. solar, wind, geothermal.

hot tip: at the rate we’re approving these fine technologies, it’s you, me and Ludwig thumb wrestling for the last spot in the canoe.

i don’t begrudge Al’s desire to be a businessman first and a realist second…i just don’t want him to preach at me. that’s all…

159 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:21:04pm

re: #155 CarleeCork

Don’t all millionaires live like he does?

Sure.
I’m happy that he and his family can live so comfortably.

I’m also quite comfortable and content in my much more modest life, and have no jealousy whatsoever. My life fits me just fine.

160 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:21:10pm

re: #128 bratwurst

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

The only thing that will help is for healthy, nutritious food and a diverse diet to become as easy, tasty, cheap, convenient and available as highly processed, high calorie, preservative-ridden crap. That’s it, really. People may still overeat, but overeating is much easier when highly processed food packs so many kilojoules into such a small amount, and marketing increases people’s expectations of volume.

You can’t force people to eat less. You can’t force people to be less susceptible to marketing. You can’t force people to make healthy food choices. But you also can’t place the burden of making healthy choices solely on people when the difficulty and cost of making that choice is so great. You can make it easier to make that choice.

Reductionist approaches to food science have been largely wasteful over the past 50 years or so. We’ve gone from glorifying trans fats to discovering how bad they are, and so on. However, science still has a role, even if it’s just finding a way to effectively preserve food so that it can fit the supermarket model that doesn’t involve filling it with stuff that’s incredibly bad for you. Or the key might be to improve local food production such that long-term preservation becomes largely unnecessary, because local markets can provide the same supply and more cheaply. Heck, the key might even be finding something that can make a healthy, fresh sandwich taste as good as a Big Mac, without packing it full of salt, fat, sugar, or other crap.

161 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:21:21pm

re: #150 Aceofwhat?
Sometimes it just means…. at least speaking from my point of view… that you had to answer the phone, door, or left.
What kills me are the few people who jump with both feet onto a poster who indicates a lack of knowledge about something said or written in a post days ago, ” You Should have Known That!!1111!! ”
Many people don’t have time or for whatever reason , do not get to cover every word set down. In the case of a blog, unlike the law, ignorance is often an excuse.

162 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:21:38pm

re: #152 reine.de.tout

You know - I don’t care what he supports or the reasons for it. I really don’t. I just really really despise the thundering lectures about how “we” must reduce our carbon footprint, drive the vehicles he has chosen as “best”, and all the while his carbon footprint is much bigger than mine in my entire lifetime will be.

But he has the money to offset his carbon footprint, so it’s a zero sum game. He can do what he wants without actually effecting the planet.

163 bratwurst  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:21:47pm

re: #142 Aceofwhat?

yep.

an end to the whining about pre-existing conditions and baaad insurance companies, at least as it pertains to this subject.

guess what? you’re obese? ok. it is going to cost you a fucking fortune to get insurance.

don’t like it?

run, fatboy, run!

I don’t disagree in principle…but this leads us toward the whole HCR debate (which certainly relates, but also distracts from the thrust of my question). I would, however, suggest that it is not desirable to allow today’s obese children to wait until they have to purchase health insurance as obese adults to teach them a lesson.

164 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:22:03pm

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, but my attacks on Palin are based on the fact that she really is incompetent to any political job she would take.

I wouldn’t hire someone without legs to run a marathon either.


Speaking of legs, I got downdinged for mentioning the fact that Sarah has nice legs. I thought that was rather rude.

165 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:22:54pm

re: #155 CarleeCork
Not so much.
‘A million ain’t what it used to be.’

166 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:23:19pm

re: #151 recusancy

Then don’t lecture me or anyone about our federal debt we you don’t care about the carbon debt. Al Gore aside. Both will be paid for by future generations.

time should with that you think I more take posts your.

167 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:23:26pm

re: #128 bratwurst

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

Guys like Jamie Oliver and Michael Pollan have the right answer. We’ve lost our relationship with food and we now eat processed crap. Even poor people waste a lot of money buying processed food because they don’t know how to cook from scratch anymore. We need to change our food culture.

168 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:23:31pm

I don’t get it. If Al Gores hypocrisy offends people so much then don’t listen to him to him lecture or whatever. He ain’t the be all and end all of AGW advocates. Maybe one of the most famous but that means little except the msm loves to talk about him

There are hundreds if not thousands of people out there that speak or write about AGW, talk about this we should do and live with reasonable footprints or strive to really walk the talk. There’s also people that have been around and talking about it a hella a lot longer and way before Gore popped up on the scene.

169 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:23:37pm

re: #164 CarleeCork

Speaking of legs, I got downdinged for mentioning the fact that Sarah has nice legs. I thought that was rather rude.

Well, you could have commented on her, ahem, other attributes when she wore that ridiculous leather coat with zippers on her chest.

170 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:23:52pm

re: #156 recusancy

Just a general point about a parallel hypocrisy on the right.

Addressed to me as “you”.
Do not make assumptions about me.

And we are discussing Gore.
When we are discussing something on the right, if anyone dares mention a left-leaning equivalent, there is the “TU QUOQUE” brigade.
Shall I toss it at you, now?

171 recusancy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:24:03pm

re: #158 Aceofwhat?

right. solar, wind, geothermal.

hot tip: at the rate we’re approving these fine technologies, it’s you, me and Ludwig thumb wrestling for the last spot in the canoe.

i don’t begrudge Al’s desire to be a businessman first and a realist second…i just don’t want him to preach at me. that’s all…

You asked if he had solutions. He does. You said he is against nuclear. He isn’t.

172 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:24:07pm

re: #159 reine.de.tout

Sure.
I’m happy that he and his family can live so comfortably.

I’m also quite comfortable and content in my much more modest life, and have no jealousy whatsoever. My life fits me just fine.


Agreed! I have had people get upset because we have a 60” television. They actually asked me who needs a 60” TV. We have it because we wanted it and we can.

173 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:24:19pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, when we talk about personal attacks on Palin, we’re basically talking Cato, maybe Ludwig, and some people cheer, and some people tell them to shut up, and Dark_Falcon always defends Palin’s honor.

Well ok that and the fact she really is a craven political oppurtunist with no loayalty to anyone but herself and someone who stands for any number of things I find utterly reprehensible.

At the end of the day even if you thuoght that Gore was evil incarnate, it is hard to find moral fault with the notion that taknig care of the environment is evil itself.

However, I am perfectly correct calling Palin’s hysteria baiting with nirtherism and deatherism the evil and callous lying that it is.

She is very much not good people. She is stupid to boot and she brings out the worst in America as a sort of spokes model for groups that are detestable.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:24:25pm

re: #128 bratwurst

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

I’d start programs to provide seed money and mentoring for people who want to start independent grocery stores or franchises in underserved areas. The ones I know about are urban, but I bet there are business models that would work for rural areas as well. Same for gyms, etc.

Increased community policing will make it safer for kids to play in their neighborhoods and people will be better able to go jogging and such. Schools should have money for sports and health programs.

I’d like to see churches promoting health, through weight-loss groups, sports and fitness programs for grown-ups as well as kids.

I’d like to see us work as a society to divorce ideas about fitness and health from crazy unrealistic ones about beauty as defined by thinness. Doctors, in particular, have been completely stupid about this in my experience.

If I were the Dictator of America, I would ban any magazine from running cover stories about how to lose weight quick! or get your best bikini body ever! but I think freedom of the press makes that a little tricky. Stupid Bill of Rights!!!/

That’s off the top of my head.

175 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:24:55pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout
Dammit, man, just send Jamie Oliver to my house for one week. Just one week…..
Dude can cook.

176 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:25:25pm

re: #155 CarleeCork

Don’t all millionaires live like he does?

sure.

do they all lecture my dad about owning a pickup truck?

(it’s hyperbole, of course, but you see my point…)

177 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:25:29pm

re: #172 CarleeCork

Agreed! I have had people get upset because we have a 60” television. They actually asked me who needs a 60” TV. We have it because we wanted it and we can.

I get the same thing when people ask me why I have a tommy gun.

I like it. I need no other reason. Same goes for my Brown Bess musket…although I do use that for 18th Century re-enacting.

178 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:26:10pm

re: #168 Jadespring

your sensibility is sooo harshing my buzz;)

179 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:26:13pm

My eyes say “mmmm mmmmm good!” Really great photos at the link…

180 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:26:38pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist
I enjoy cooking, some people hate it. You can’t fix that.

181 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:26:47pm

re: #177 celticdragon

I get the same thing when people ask me why I have a tommy gun.

well that’s just pure unadulterated cool.

182 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:26:54pm

re: #128 bratwurst

We certainly read a lot here about what people (right-of-center, generally speaking) DON’T think will help combat the obesity epidemic and the otherwise remarkably poor diet of a shocking percentage of Americans. Does anyone (of any political persuasion) have any suggestions as to what they think WILL help?

Laws…

Laws mandating amount of salt, fat content, certain chemicals, maybe even age limits on certain products.

183 Jack Burton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:26:55pm

re: #164 CarleeCork

Speaking of legs, I got downdinged for mentioning the fact that Sarah has nice legs. I thought that was rather rude.

Although she deserves 99+ % of the flak she gets here, there are still some people with over the top Palin Derangement Syndrome… like Cato.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:27:12pm

re: #134 reine.de.tout

I’m happy for him and his family that they can live so comfortably.

But don’t lecture me because I drive a Lincoln.

I guess part of my bafflement about this is that I’m barely aware of Gore’s existence except when he comes up here. I’m vaguely aware that he’s mostly being some kind of global warming activist out there.

So I don’t feel lectured by him. He may, in fact, be lecturing me, but I’m not listening.

185 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:27:24pm

re: #175 tradewind

Dammit, man, just send Jamie Oliver to my house for one week. Just one week…
Dude can cook.

I’ll take Paula Dean. Chicken fried steak with cream cheese mashed potatoes and onion gravy…mmm…

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:27:38pm

re: #135 tradewind

I don’t care how many ” offsets” you pretend to buy, nine bathrooms in a vacation house is …
Not so Green.
Just saying.

Well, it’s certainly an oversized vacation house.

187 bratwurst  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:28:18pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Guys like Jamie Oliver and Michael Pollan have the right answer.

I totally agree, but we have both seen people here attack the messengers, politically motivated or not…the fact the first lady is involved makes me believe the former.

188 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:28:40pm

re: #173 LudwigVanQuixote
Not sure that ’ good people ’ are quite so judgmental about who are and who are not the ’ good people ‘.
**I’m not talking about the exceptions that everyone knows, i.e. nazis and genocidal dictators.

189 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:28:54pm

re: #177 celticdragon

I get the same thing when people ask me why I have a tommy gun.

I like it. I need no other reason. Same goes for my Brown Bess musket…although I do use that for 18th Century re-enacting.


I live in Texas, I carried a gun until the govt. wanted me to “register” to carry it. I always figured it I had to use it I sure wouldn’t want a record of my ownership of said gun.

190 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:29:10pm

re: #164 CarleeCork

Speaking of legs, I got downdinged for mentioning the fact that Sarah has nice legs. I thought that was rather rude.

Well I gave you an upding.

As to Sarah’s legs, or any of her other bits, she could honestly look like Natale Portman and I still would not and could not be attracted to her. I simply can not be attracted to stupid, selfish, dishonest, opportunist, breathtakingly ignorant and smug about being a twit to boot.

The thought of coming home to her and hearing some perky you betcha coupled with a screed on why black helicopters were invading russia after the Spanish attacked Pearl Harbor - and that is why for the sake of the troops we shouldn’t talk about how she wanted to leave the marriage because she thought she had a chance to date someone else in the lower 48, would cause me to want to kill something. Well the bit about her leaving me would be welcome at least, but you get my point.

191 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:29:21pm

re: #164 CarleeCork

Speaking of legs, I got downdinged for mentioning the fact that Sarah has nice legs. I thought that was rather rude.

I agree with you. I’ve downdinged disparaging remarks about women. But compliments? Can there be too many compliments?

192 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:29:49pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

Laws…

Laws mandating amount of salt, fat content, certain chemicals, maybe even age limits on certain products.

dude…

193 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:30:11pm

re: #172 CarleeCork

Agreed! I have had people get upset because we have a 60” television. They actually asked me who needs a 60” TV. We have it because we wanted it and we can.

And that’s wonderful!
I have no issues with people having more, or living differently than I do. I am quite happy and content.

It’s when the folks who live much bigger than I do feel they have an obligation or a right to lecture me about the car I choose to drive, that I have a problem

I recycle paper and plastic. I reuse plastic bags, plates, containers, etc., until they are no longer reusable. I have a compost pile. I have my own reusable bags that I bring to the store with me. I never litter, and in fact, pick up the litter from the ditches around my house and my neighbor’s house. I hang most of my clothes to dry. AND - my AC is set on 65 because it’s too damned hot to have it any higher than that. And I’m not going to turn it up, no matter what Al Gore says, and my little house will still use less power in a year than one of his homes in a month. So he can spare me the lectures.

194 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:30:41pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton
Yeah, that worked well in Prohibition. All we need is a black market in french fries. Mafia will dump the drugs and start smuggling sugar.

195 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:30:42pm

re: #180 CarleeCork

I enjoy cooking, some people hate it. You can’t fix that.

And many people just don’t know how or think it’s hard and when given the opportunity to learn, find out they like it and it’s not as difficult as they thought it was.

196 MinisterO  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:30:48pm

To the extent that Al Gore is the Hitler of the right we have a Godwin at #36. Pavlov would be proud.

197 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:30:53pm

re: #190 LudwigVanQuixote

Well I gave you an upding.

As to Sarah’s legs, or any of her other bits, she could honestly look like Natale Portman and I still would not and could not be attracted to her. I simply can not be attracted to stupid, selfish, dishonest, opportunist, breathtakingly ignorant and smug about being a twit to boot.

The thought of coming home to her and hearing some perky you betcha coupled with a screed on why black helicopters were invading russia after the Spanish attacked Pearl Harbor - and that is why for the sake of the troops we shouldn’t talk about how she wanted to leave the marriage because she thought she had a chance to date someone else in the lower 48, would cause me to want to kill something. Well the bit about her leaving me would be welcome at least, but you get my point.

Really?

198 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:31:02pm

re: #188 tradewind

Not sure that ’ good people ’ are quite so judgmental about who are and who are not the ’ good people ‘.
**I’m not talking about the exceptions that everyone knows, i.e. nazis and genocidal dictators.

While good people can and do give the benefit of the doubt, they are also not blind to repeated injury. She is exactly as I have described her and everyone knows it.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:31:11pm

re: #155 CarleeCork

Don’t all millionaires live like he does?

I think the point is that a millionaire who’s this publically concerned about reducing impact on the earth should not. And he has the money to live in comfort while doing so.

200 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:31:32pm

re: #175 tradewind

Dammit, man, just send Jamie Oliver to my house for one week. Just one week…
Dude can cook.

Heh. I know the celebrity chef craze is kinda goofy but I like him too. He’s a very passionate food advocate and I’ve learned a lot from his shows. He even convinced me to pay extra money for free range chicken and eggs. I’m poor and I’m cheap so that’s quite a feat.

201 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:31:36pm

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

As a teacher, I would think you would be supportive of her creative protesting and the fact that she is molding a unique and very special set of values for herself. I wish more kids had this fervor for issues instead of just sitting in front of a computer game.

Dumpster Muffin is a folk hero in the vain of a whole line of steel-willed American folk heroes who embody the spirit of this country, the spirit that shaped this country, but a spirit that is rarely seen outside of some old movies or dog-eared paperbacks.

Dumpster Muffin rocks.

My daughter rocks way more than Dumpster Muffin. My daughter has a full time job and pays rent on her own apartment and buys all her own clothes. She is the spirit that shapes this country, not some stupid attention freak who takes handouts.

202 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:31:45pm

re: #181 Aceofwhat?

well that’s just pure unadulterated cool.

Heh! It even has the arrowhead mark on the receiver. I can’t really afford a drum for it though. 200 frakking dollars! I can get 30rd stick mags for less than 40 dollars. The bolt spring is very stiff, so you have to have some upper body oomph to chamber the first round…and you have to use fmj ammo. I made the mistake of using wadcutters once, and they hung up on the feed ramp.

Very fun weapon to shoot. Expensive beast, but very fun.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:32:29pm

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

But he has the money to offset his carbon footprint, so it’s a zero sum game. He can do what he wants without actually effecting the planet.

Walter, no one bit into it the first time. Just a tip. Also: ‘affecting’.

:) Am I the only person who really enjoys Walter’s new personality?

204 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:33:10pm

re: #192 Aceofwhat?

dude…

What’s your problem? I’m having a break with the right wing. I can’t help it… it’s been coming on for a long time… and I can’t take the overt racism, the violence, the deliberate anti-science stances, the religious stuff, the whole nine yards… I’ve had it. Don’t expect support from me any more.

205 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:33:28pm

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess part of my bafflement about this is that I’m barely aware of Gore’s existence except when he comes up here. I’m vaguely aware that he’s mostly being some kind of global warming activist out there.

So I don’t feel lectured by him. He may, in fact, be lecturing me, but I’m not listening.

Actually, you’re right - I only see his name pop up here, he’s certainly not in the news like he was for awhile.

I’m having leftover upsetness, I guess - never got it completely out of my system when he was going around doing the lecture thingy.

206 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:33:41pm

re: #134 reine.de.tout

I’m happy for him and his family that they can live so comfortably.

But don’t lecture me because I drive a Lincoln.

OK that’s fine. I don’t drive a Lincoln and the science tells you that driving one is a bad thing.

I don’t mean to be an ass about it, but I will lecture you. The factis that if a hummer owner talked about all the ways we waste fossil fuels and contribute to a huge footprint, he would still be correct.

And I don’t drive a hummer either.

207 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:34:27pm

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess part of my bafflement about this is that I’m barely aware of Gore’s existence except when he comes up here. I’m vaguely aware that he’s mostly being some kind of global warming activist out there.

So I don’t feel lectured by him. He may, in fact, be lecturing me, but I’m not listening.

I don’t want to project, but one could say the same of many people who are brought up as an example of what’s wrong with the right. I hesitate to admit how many i’ve had to google, but apparently they all have a massive influence on the right.

i’d prefer to do what you’re doing and downplay said massive influence all around, absent evidence to the contrary.

208 ausador  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:34:27pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Both ‘teams’ around here operate with bias and double standards. Some of us try to avoid it.

But acting as though criticism is coercion and only in one direction is a bit silly.

I guess you hav’nt been paying much attention to which direction the downdings have been flowing in lately. I’m in the center, I have a lot more karma than I do posts, it isn’t my personal plight that I am complaining about, far from it.

I just don’t see how a post by someone else about Gore that was actually mildly funny rates 8 downdings, I really don’t. Yet someone else can make a post about Palin that calls her a slut and get 5 updings?

The balance of power on this site has shifted from right to left, I probably wouldn’t be posting here otherwise because the pure “right” sites are riduculously uninformed echo chambers. However I still lean a bit to the right and I get tired of seeing people gang-piled for even attempts at right-wing humor.

Every day I see deadly serious and utterly scathing posts about the right or about people on the right that at the end have a sarc tag and a “just kidding” or something equally inane. It was never sarc, it was never humor, it was exactly what the rest of the post purported it to be. Yet the inclusion of the “sarc tag” allows people to upding it freely without it being held against them “seriously.”

So, why doesn’t this also work for people posting from the right? Why does saying anything that could be construed as negative about anyone on the left automatically garner a lot of downdings even when the post actually is a joke?

/ (Just Kidding)…NOT!

209 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:34:31pm

re: #201 Alouette

My daughter rocks way more than Dumpster Muffin. My daughter has a full time job and pays rent on her own apartment and buys all her own clothes. She is the spirit that shapes this country, not some stupid attention freak who takes handouts.

That’s not very nice at all.

210 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:34:34pm

re: #187 bratwurst

I totally agree, but we have both seen people here attack the messengers, politically motivated or not…the fact the first lady is involved makes me believe the former.

Well, it’s also a partisan issue because conservatives have abandoned it. The same thing happened with environmentalism. It’s weird but you never see right wing blogs discuss sustainable seafood, food ethics, health issues, etc but lefty blogs cover those topics all the time.

211 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:34:47pm

re: #141 darthstar
No need to mail it…. you’ve laid it all out here.
Ick.

212 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:35:24pm

re: #189 CarleeCork

I live in Texas, I carried a gun until the govt. wanted me to “register” to carry it. I always figured it I had to use it I sure wouldn’t want a record of my ownership of said gun.

I have no problem with registering one’s self for a CCW, since I agree in principle that people should have training if they are going to carry a handgun every day. I am utterly against registering weapons for registrations sake. The only reason for that is eventual confiscation. It has nothing to do with crime, and has never been shown to affect crime.

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:36:21pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Guys like Jamie Oliver and Michael Pollan have the right answer. We’ve lost our relationship with food and we now eat processed crap. Even poor people waste a lot of money buying processed food because they don’t know how to cook from scratch anymore. We need to change our food culture.

There was a piece in one of the local tabloid papers a while ago by a young mom in the Bay Area who described slowly going insane trying to make some from-scratch organic feast for her kids. Someone wrote in and pointed out that ‘organic’, or ‘healthy’ or ‘locavore’ does not need to mean complicated time-consuming cooking. I think that’s some of it. We have limited time available, and I think for a lot of people, the food they know how to COOK is time-consuming. If we’re going to start eating real food agian, we need to know how to make fast real food.

I love Crock Pots!

214 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:36:51pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout
I suppose Gore thinks that’s his job. Mr. Cork and I both drive six cylinders, must have power on the road. I recycled before it was in vogue.

Gore is preaching “do as I say” not “do as I do.” He IS in the position to do so. I’m not and you probably aren’t either.

I just glad someone is trying to get the word out. Climate change is happening and the consequences will be dire if the World doesn’t pay attention.

215 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:36:58pm

re: #208 ausador

8?…. with a bullet.
You gotta catch up.
:)

216 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:37:44pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

OK that’s fine. I don’t drive a Lincoln and the science tells you that driving one is a bad thing.

I don’t mean to be an ass about it, but I will lecture you. The factis that if a hummer owner talked about all the ways we waste fossil fuels and contribute to a huge footprint, he would still be correct.

And I don’t drive a hummer either.

LVQ - I mostly drive in town, and I drive way less than 100 miles a week.
When I take a trip, I want a solid car around me, and when I’m driving around town, I quite like the features the Lincoln gives me.
And so I’m going to drive my Lincoln and love it.

I would have a LOT more respect for anyone lecturing me about my Lincoln, if they were also as aggravated as I am about people like Al Gore, owner of several homes, the most recent one having pools, a spa, fountains, and nine bathrooms. But he seems to always get a pass, while I get lectured about driving my Lincoln less than 100 miles a week. It’s weird.

217 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:37:45pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Well, it’s also a partisan issue because conservatives have abandoned it. The same thing happened with environmentalism. It’s weird but you never see right wing blogs discuss sustainable seafood, food ethics, health issues, etc but lefty blogs cover those topics all the time.

Rod Dreher at CrunchyCon is a social conservative who advocates for sustainable living and environmentalism. He has toned down the more partisan parts of his blog since he is now a director at the Templeton Foundation, but he still advocates for responsible stewardship of the Earth.

218 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:38:06pm

Some of the Sous Vide talk around here lately inspired me to do some experiments in the kitchen today. I think I have the equipment on hand to give it a try so I’ll do Sous Vide leg of lamb this weekend. I’m also going to make sure I have a backup meal on hand because I have no idea how it’s going to come out.

219 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:38:26pm

re: #195 Jadespring

And many people just don’t know how or think it’s hard and when given the opportunity to learn, find out they like it and it’s not as difficult as they thought it was.


Excellent point. My older sister is one that HATES to cook, but loves to eat when I’m doing the cooking.

220 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:39:09pm

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

Walter, no one bit into it the first time. Just a tip. Also: ‘affecting’.

:) Am I the only person who really enjoys Walter’s new personality?

it’s a riot! i love it-

221 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:39:24pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

That’s not very nice at all.

I’ll say it again: my daughter is a far better role model for young Americans than Dumpster Muffin.

222 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:39:32pm

re: #219 CarleeCork

Excellent point. My older sister is one that HATES to cook, but loves to eat when I’m doing the cooking.

I’m coming over tonight. What are we having? ;)

223 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:39:34pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout

AND - my AC is set on 65 because it’s too damned hot to have it any higher than that. And I’m not going to turn it up, no matter what Al Gore says


I’m with ya, Reine, but when that knock on your door comes,……

224 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:40:39pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Some of the Sous Vide talk around here lately inspired me to do some experiments in the kitchen today. I think I have the equipment on hand to give it a try so I’ll do Sous Vide leg of lamb this weekend. I’m also going to make sure I have a backup meal on hand because I have no idea how it’s going to come out.

We just rotisseried a pork loin on the smoker with char sui coating for inclusion in tonight’s pork fried rice.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:40:44pm

re: #205 reine.de.tout

Actually, you’re right - I only see his name pop up here, he’s certainly not in the news like he was for awhile.

I’m having leftover upsetness, I guess - never got it completely out of my system when he was going around doing the lecture thingy.

I fully understand that. There are people I CANNOT STAND for similar reasons.

226 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:41:13pm

bbl…

227 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:41:18pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

LVQ - I mostly drive in town, and I drive way less than 100 miles a week.
When I take a trip, I want a solid car around me, and when I’m driving around town, I quite like the features the Lincoln gives me.
And so I’m going to drive my Lincoln and love it.

I would have a LOT more respect for anyone lecturing me about my Lincoln, if they were also as aggravated as I am about people like Al Gore, owner of several homes, the most recent one having pools, a spa, fountains, and nine bathrooms. But he seems to always get a pass, while I get lectured about driving my Lincoln less than 100 miles a week. It’s weird.

I hear you.

This is why I constantly remind folks that Al Gore is not the face of AGW. The face of AGW is in the data and the numbers and the very real changes happening all around us. The people cataloging and explaining this are not Al Gore.

The scientists are trying to save lives - including their own.

Now realistically is your short drive in the Lincoln going to be the thing that finally pushes us over a tipping point? Probably not. However, do 1000 million people who all do little things like that add up to something that is inexorably marching us towards one, absolutely.

228 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:41:20pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout
I was going to say if you haven’t done it before…… have plan B ready, and you might not want to get the most expensive cut of meat.
Sous vide grosses me out a little unless it’s a pudding , but that’s just me.

229 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:41:36pm

re: #221 Alouette

I’ll say it again: my daughter is a far better role model for young Americans than Dumpster Muffin.

Oh my goodness… now you said it twice… please stop.

230 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:41:51pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

What’s your problem? I’m having a break with the right wing. I can’t help it… it’s been coming on for a long time… and I can’t take the overt racism, the violence, the deliberate anti-science stances, the religious stuff, the whole nine yards… I’ve had it. Don’t expect support from me any more.

cool. this is kinda fun, actually.

don’t expect it to affect the fact that i like you.

231 KingKenrod  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:42:00pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Guys like Jamie Oliver and Michael Pollan have the right answer. We’ve lost our relationship with food and we now eat processed crap. Even poor people waste a lot of money buying processed food because they don’t know how to cook from scratch anymore. We need to change our food culture.

Oliver’s reality series was very interesting - I watched every episode and I hate reality TV.

Did you notice how many problems with getting quality food in schools were bureaucratic in nature? Problems that come from the top down.

232 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:42:06pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Roi and I both agree.. You would look good in one of these..
bmwusa.com
* great job on the new cookbook.. I’m ordering on the first*

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:42:59pm

re: #208 ausador

I guess you hav’nt been paying much attention to which direction the downdings have been flowing in lately. I’m in the center, I have a lot more karma than I do posts, it isn’t my personal plight that I am complaining about, far from it.

I just don’t see how a post by someone else about Gore that was actually mildly funny rates 8 downdings, I really don’t. Yet someone else can make a post about Palin that calls her a slut and get 5 updings?

The balance of power on this site has shifted from right to left, I probably wouldn’t be posting here otherwise because the pure “right” sites are riduculously uninformed echo chambers. However I still lean a bit to the right and I get tired of seeing people gang-piled for even attempts at right-wing humor.

Every day I see deadly serious and utterly scathing posts about the right or about people on the right that at the end have a sarc tag and a “just kidding” or something equally inane. It was never sarc, it was never humor, it was exactly what the rest of the post purported it to be. Yet the inclusion of the “sarc tag” allows people to upding it freely without it being held against them “seriously.”

So, why doesn’t this also work for people posting from the right? Why does saying anything that could be construed as negative about anyone on the left automatically garner a lot of downdings even when the post actually is a joke?

/ (Just Kidding)…NOT!

I really don’t care about the dinging, but I do see some scathing nastiness running both ways.

234 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:43:07pm

re: #201 Alouette

Who is dumpster muffin?

235 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:43:09pm

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

There was a piece in one of the local tabloid papers a while ago by a young mom in the Bay Area who described slowly going insane trying to make some from-scratch organic feast for her kids. Someone wrote in and pointed out that ‘organic’, or ‘healthy’ or ‘locavore’ does not need to mean complicated time-consuming cooking. I think that’s some of it. We have limited time available, and I think for a lot of people, the food they know how to COOK is time-consuming. If we’re going to start eating real food agian, we need to know how to make fast real food.

I love Crock Pots!

Definitely. That’s why I think the food culture that my generation grew up with is part of the problem. Cooking trends when I grew up were from Julia Child making fancy french sauces or big 4 course traditional American meals. People don’t have the time or skill to do that stuff anymore so they buy processed frozen versions.

236 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:43:11pm

re: #224 Thanos

We just rotisseried a pork loin on the smoker with char sui coating for inclusion in tonight’s pork fried rice.

I’ve got a rack of pork I need to cook. Thinking about slow-roasting it this weekend. Normally, I part it out into giant pork-sickles and cook them individually…but I can nom on pork for days and not get tired of it, so this weekend it’s either getting a low-temp bbq or maybe a slow-braise in the crock pot.

I’ve also got a bunch of corn husks, so I might just have to make tamales out of some of it.

237 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:43:57pm

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

Crock pots rock!

I love being able to chuck everything in. Turn the thing on. Walk away and do my thing. Return and bingo…delicious food.

I’m feeling the same sort of love for the bread maker I got a few months ago as well.

I made english muffins from scratch the other day and it was dead easy.

238 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:44:02pm

re: #217 celticdragon

Rod Dreher at CrunchyCon is a social conservative who advocates for sustainable living and environmentalism. He has toned down the more partisan parts of his blog since he is now a director at the Templeton Foundation, but he still advocates for responsible stewardship of the Earth.

Ah, thanks for the reminder. I forgot about him.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:44:43pm

re: #224 Thanos

We just rotisseried a pork loin on the smoker with char sui coating for inclusion in tonight’s pork fried rice.

I can’t even eat the pork, but that sounds awesome.

240 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:44:51pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote


I hear you.

This is why I constantly remind folks that Al Gore is not the face of AGW. The face of AGW is in the data and the numbers and the very real changes happening all around us. The people cataloging and explaining this are not Al Gore.

good point.
(he still aggravates me)

The scientists are trying to save lives - including their own.

Now realistically is your short drive in the Lincoln going to be the thing that finally pushes us over a tipping point? Probably not. However, do 1000 million people who all do little things like that add up to something that is inexorably marching us towards one, absolutely.

Well … I love my Lincoln. I’ve driven Toyotas & Nissan’s, the small basic ones (not the big fancy ones). And I’m gonna keep my Lincoln, do all of the other things I can (outlined in an earlier post) and be happy.

241 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:45:14pm

re: #231 KingKenrod

Oliver’s reality series was very interesting - I watched every episode and I hate reality TV.

Did you notice how many problems with getting quality food in schools were bureaucratic in nature? Problems that come from the top down.


It was awful, french fries are a vegetable?

242 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:45:20pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Someday it will be relatively easy to switch to natural gas or other alt fuels. Military vehicles do this at the flip of a switch, or a short maintenance parts swap. And natural gas has huge advantages over gasoline. Or my favorite, (I am biased I have access to this at work) hydrogen.

243 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:45:28pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

I don’t mean to be an ass about it, but I will lecture you. The factis that if a hummer owner talked about all the ways we waste fossil fuels and contribute to a huge footprint, he would still be correct.

I disagree. Hypocrisy does more harm than good.

244 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:45:28pm

re: #224 Thanos

We just rotisseried a pork loin on the smoker with char sui coating for inclusion in tonight’s pork fried rice.

Nice.

245 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:46:11pm

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes.

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:46:23pm

re: #231 KingKenrod

Oliver’s reality series was very interesting - I watched every episode and I hate reality TV.

Did you notice how many problems with getting quality food in schools were bureaucratic in nature? Problems that come from the top down.

It’s a problem.

247 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:46:24pm

re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote

My impression is that a political lightning rod may not be your best spokesperson.

248 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:46:41pm

re: #232 HoosierHoops

Roi and I both agree.. You would look good in one of these..
[Link: www.bmwusa.com…]
* great job on the new cookbook.. I’m ordering on the first*

OH.
*drool*

You know, I got my Lincoln off the lot, the dealer had 2 of the previous year’s model left, and I was looking at a Toyota and the Lincoln. The Lincoln, with the reduction because it was last year’s model, was $6000 cheaper than the Toyota. Not sure I’d ever find that sort of a BMW deal. But I’m drooling …

249 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:46:59pm

re: #241 CarleeCork

It was awful, french fries are a vegetable?

I know! That whole part made me want to bang my head on the desk.

250 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:47:19pm

I just had a convo with the GF. We were talking about raising kids. I assured her that any children we might have would not be forced to learn calculus by age 12 however, if they showed the talent and love of mathematics to do that, it would be greatly supported and that I would support the kids in pursuing anything they loved and had a passion for.

She asked what if the kid want to be a GOP economist?

I said, you are right honey. In my house we use actual math where 2+2 always = 4.

She said good point - we don’t want them thinking it depends on fluctuations in the integer commodity market.

251 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:47:40pm

Al Gore to AGW
Image: redherring.gif

252 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:48:22pm

re: #229 Walter L. Newton

Oh my goodness… now you said it twice… please stop.

Why should I?

253 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:48:24pm

For those who need help in (or an introduction to) the kitchen: Saving Dinner.

254 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:48:32pm

re: #248 reine.de.tout

OH.
*drool*

You know, I got my Lincoln off the lot, the dealer had 2 of the previous year’s model left, and I was looking at a Toyota and the Lincoln. The Lincoln, with the reduction because it was last year’s model, was $6000 cheaper than the Toyota. Not sure I’d ever find that sort of a BMW deal. But I’m drooling …


Go drive an Infiniti, they are good solid cars and they will move when you want them to. Rear wheel drive too.

255 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:48:33pm

re: #231 KingKenrod

The FDA is part of the problem. A lot of the food regulations for schools and the population in general are pretty lousy. A lot of those awful chemicals companies put in food is required by the government.

256 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:49:45pm

re: #254 CarleeCork

Go drive an Infiniti, they are good solid cars and they will move when you want them to. Rear wheel drive too.

i had a G35…fabulous car.

257 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:50:22pm

re: #254 CarleeCork

Go drive an Infiniti, they are good solid cars and they will move when you want them to. Rear wheel drive too.

I did look at the Infinitis. This is the one I loved.

Alas - out of my price range.

258 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:50:23pm

re: #252 Alouette

Why should I?

Because you’re hurting my feelings.

259 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:50:56pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

The FDA is part of the problem. A lot of the food regulations for schools and the population in general are pretty lousy. A lot of those awful chemicals companies put in food is required by the government.


The fast food restaurants are a bigger part of the problem. How can someone compete with processed crap and flavored milk?

Education is the answer.

260 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:50:57pm

Alright, who replaced Walter???
///

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:51:30pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Definitely. That’s why I think the food culture that my generation grew up with is part of the problem. Cooking trends when I grew up were from Julia Child making fancy french sauces or big 4 course traditional American meals. People don’t have the time or skill to do that stuff anymore so they buy processed frozen versions.

More women used to stay home, that’s part of it too. I’m not sure our eating skills ever caught up with the women’s movement.

One guy wrote in after the piece about going crazy trying to be Organic Mommy, and talked about living in rural El Salvador for a time. He pointed out that peasant cooking was healthy and natural, it just wasn’t exciting. We evolved a culture where someone was supposed to make a holiday dinner every night, and then we sort of freaked when that wasn’t available anymore, and, as you say, went to processed food equivalents in a lot of cases.

262 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:51:46pm

re: #195 Jadespring

And many people just don’t know how or think it’s hard and when given the opportunity to learn, find out they like it and it’s not as difficult as they thought it was.

I find cooking to be a chore because I’m a bit lazy, but it is a chore Ido very well.
If I lived by myself I would probably never cook anything fresh except for creamed spinach, meatloaf and steak.
Maybe pie.
But I live with people who seem to think because I am home that it is my job to provide them fresh cooked meals most days of the week and I really love them so I want them to not eat processed crap constantly. Luckily they are not picky.

263 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:51:56pm

re: #257 reine.de.tout

I did look at the Infinitis. This is the one I loved.

Alas - out of my price range.


Get a used one! I drive a G35, it’s a 2003 and still kicks butt.

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:53:06pm

re: #252 Alouette

Why should I?

Walter is sensitive now.

265 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:53:26pm

re: #261 SanFranciscoZionist

More women used to stay home, that’s part of it too. I’m not sure our eating skills ever caught up with the women’s movement.

Ding ding ding….we have a winner.

266 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:53:26pm

re: #263 CarleeCork

Get a used one! I drive a G35, it’s a 2003 and still kicks butt.

I may do that, next time I’m in the market for a car.

267 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:54:00pm

re: #241 CarleeCork

It was awful, french fries are a vegetable?

I saw one bit of one episode and this poor little girl had jelly beans, chips and maybe cheetos as her lunch that she brought from home.
I was all “whoa”….

268 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:54:53pm

re: #260 Varek Raith

Alright, who replaced Walter???
///

I’m not putting up with any of this racist, violent, right wing stuff anymore, anti-science, crazy Tea Party militants.

269 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:55:26pm

OT
Immigration rally Los Angeles

Boy I sure want to get down there to see and take some video with stills.

LAPD says up tp 100,000 whatever that forecast means.

270 Aceofwhat?  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:55:51pm

bbl folks

271 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:55:54pm

re: #267 webevintage

I saw one bit of one episode and this poor little girl had jelly beans, chips and maybe cheetos as her lunch that she brought from home.
I was all “whoa”…

That’s terrible… I think social services should get involved when they find something like that.

272 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:55:55pm

re: #269 Rightwingconspirator

PIMF
Darn- Up TO 100,000

273 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:56:38pm

re: #269 Rightwingconspirator

OT
Immigration rally Los Angeles

Boy I sure want to get down there to see and take some video with stills.

LAPD says up tp 100,000 whatever that forecast means.

Please go and report back!!

274 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:56:54pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

I’m not putting up with any of this racist, violent, right wing stuff anymore, anti-science, crazy Tea Party militants.

Understood.

275 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:58:21pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

That’s terrible… I think social services should get involved when they find something like that.


More government? Don’t parents have the right to “feed” their children whatever they deem best?
//

276 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:58:46pm

re: #262 webevintage

I find cooking to be a chore because I’m a bit lazy, but it is a chore Ido very well.
If I lived by myself I would probably never cook anything fresh except for creamed spinach, meatloaf and steak.
Maybe pie.
But I live with people who seem to think because I am home that it is my job to provide them fresh cooked meals most days of the week and I really love them so I want them to not eat processed crap constantly. Luckily they are not picky.

I can relate somewhat. As much as I do like cooking in general there are many days when it feels like a chore. Sometimes I just don’t do it and we have a fend for yourself night. On those nights I’m likely to have peanut butter on toast or make a sandwich. Having someone else to cook and eat with does provide motivation.

277 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:58:54pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

That’s terrible… I think social services should get involved when they find something like that.

There is definitely a concern there, although intervention is a hot topic. I see kids all the time that have their baby teeth rotting out of their heads. It’s sad. You have to seriously be shoveling the junk to have teeth that rotten in that short amount of time.

278 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:59:28pm

re: #237 Jadespring

Crock pots rock!

I love being able to chuck everything in. Turn the thing on. Walk away and do my thing. Return and bingo…delicious food.

I’m feeling the same sort of love for the bread maker I got a few months ago as well.

I made english muffins from scratch the other day and it was dead easy.

OK Ludwig’s Cholent:

Cholent is a stew that stays at warm temperature overnight to be eaten for Saturday lunch.

Reine, here is one for volume 3.

Put the following into a large crock pot or oven safe pot.

1.5 lbs of nicely marbled meat. Chopping up a brisket works as does rib meat or even a London broil.
Two large beef bones.
2 cups beef broth.
2 cup sherry or port, if you can’t find kosher, use burgundy.
1 lb portabella mushroom
1/2 cup barley
4 potatoes cut into large hunks
two sliced carrots
4 diced shallots
the leaves of 10 sprigs of fresh tarragon
the leaves of one sprig of fresh rosemary
Dash of lavender
pinch of thyme
2 bay leaves
Salt
pepper


Before Shabbos, start the beef cooking in the beef broth with the bone, tightly sealed. after 1 hour, drain off excess fat.

Add the other ingredients. (1hour before the deadline so as not to cook over shabbos)

keep warm over night on low temperature. Do this in a crock pot, or put your large soup pot in your oven, set to @200 degrees. Make sure it is tightly sealed.

279 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 2:59:56pm

re: #273 Stanley Sea

I’ll do that. If anyone wants to join me I could use a little help, I’m going with 2 cameras. Could be fun, and I’ll buy the beer.

280 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:00:17pm

re: #274 Varek Raith

Understood.

Walter hasn’t changed. His new schtick is to caricature what he considers lefty positions. It double-dips his chance of getting into internet fights.

281 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:01:25pm

EmmmieG’s rule of thumb:

If you leave the supermarket with a lot of one-ingredient items, especially if those items are as nature made them, that’s waaay better than a cart full of pre-made items.

The fewer ingredients per item that you are buying, the better, in general.

lean hamburger=one ingredient
bacon=you don’t actually want to know, do you?

Apple=one ingredient
Ding Dong=you get the idea

282 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:02:03pm

re: #280 Renaissance_Man

Walter hasn’t changed. His new schtick is to caricature what he considers lefty positions. It double-dips his chance of getting into internet fights.

That’s mean… you take that back… you’re hurting my feelings.

283 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:03:01pm

re: #280 Renaissance_Man

Walter hasn’t changed. His new schtick is to caricature what he considers lefty positions. It double-dips his chance of getting into internet fights.

He always gets crabby when curling season is finally over.

284 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:03:24pm

re: #280 Renaissance_Man

Walter hasn’t changed. His new schtick is to caricature what he considers lefty positions. It double-dips his chance of getting into internet fights.

Yeah, I know.
;)

285 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:04:21pm

re: #269 Rightwingconspirator

It’s up from yesterday’s 60,000 prediction.

286 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:04:41pm

re: #284 Varek Raith

Yeah, I know.
;)

He’s wrong, you know that. The left has me, heart, mind and soul.

287 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:04:56pm

re: #283 Locker

He always gets crabby when curling season is finally over.

Curling season never ends, you just have to adapt.

288 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:05:20pm

re: #286 Walter L. Newton

He’s wrong, you know that. The left has me, heart, mind and soul.

In a Frankenstein-ish kind of way? In a Stockholm syndrome kind of way?

289 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:07:11pm

The funny thing is?
No one will be home for supper tonight so I stopped by Wendy’s and got a Mandarin Chicken Salad….wanted a salad, but no lettuce and I was just not in the mood to go into WalMart when I dropped the boy off at work.

290 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:07:40pm

re: #286 Walter L. Newton

He’s wrong, you know that. The left has me, heart, mind and soul.

If you want to come out as bitextual, that’s totally up to you man. It’s the 21st century, people shouldn’t judge if you want to fight with both persuasions.

291 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:07:57pm

Really bad news…

“The investigation into neglected and dead animals under the care of Hartsel-area rancher Vern Wagner has resulted in the discovery of about 100 dead cows belonging to Wagner, according to Park County Undersheriff Monte Gore. But Wagner doesn’t believe they have found that many dead animals, and if they have, he is skeptical that all the animals could have been his. Details in this week’s Flume.”

292 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:08:52pm

re: #277 tnguitarist
Actually, all it takes to cause that in many cases is a habitually- propped bottle of juice or milk in infancy, babies sucking themselves to sleep and rotting their baby teeth.
Child abuse, IMO.

293 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:09:03pm

These need to be seen in sequence:

Momma worried about her baby…
Squirrel 1

Momma jumping in to save baby…
Squirrel 2

Momma getting the dog distracted…
Squirrel 3

Dog saying, “What the fuck? Did I just get my ass kicked by a squirrel?”
Squirrel 4

294 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:09:08pm

Yahoo! Woman officers will be able to serve on Subs after a training program!
I am very very proud of the Navy…OK working on Subs for 20 years colors my view.. I am proud of our Navy..And America..
/We don’t say that enough..I am proud of America

295 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:10:05pm

re: #293 darthstar


That’s the equivalent of my taking on a 40 foot monster to save my baby, mass-wise.

She rocks.

296 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:10:06pm

re: #294 HoosierHoops

Yah! You do realize all the boats will have to be retrofitted to have women aboard?

297 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:10:14pm

re: #293 darthstar

These need to be seen in sequence:

Momma worried about her baby…
Squirrel 1

Momma jumping in to save baby…
Squirrel 2

Momma getting the dog distracted…
Squirrel 3

Dog saying, “What the fuck? Did I just get my ass kicked by a squirrel?”
Squirrel 4

If you view them backwards… there is a subliminal message that says “eat more squirrel”

298 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:11:02pm

re: #289 webevintage
If you have any bit of sunny space, stop by a nursery and grab a few sets of lettuce , (the leafy kind that some call cut-and-come-again, not the heads) , plop ‘em in a wide-ish bowl full of potting soil, and in a few weeks you can have salad fresh whenever you want it. Tastes so much better, too.

299 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:11:03pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton
LOL

300 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:11:06pm

re: #296 pingjockey

Yah! You do realize all the boats will have to be retrofitted to have women aboard?

Not to mention all the nuclear capable chastity/security belts the Navy will have to purchase.

301 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:11:13pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

If you view them backwards… there is a subliminal message that says “eat more squirrel”

Walter! That’s terrible!
;)

302 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:11:19pm

If anyone needs some work… I can email you the phone number…

“LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO CAN RAKE MANURE & TAKE IT AWAY CALLS ARE BEST NO HOME COMPUTER…”

303 Locker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:11:54pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

If anyone needs some work… I can email you the phone number…

“LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO CAN RAKE MANURE & TAKE IT AWAY CALLS ARE BEST NO HOME COMPUTER…”

I wasn’t aware that you could actually “rake” manure.

304 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:12:19pm

re: #300 Locker
Mwahaha! Actually, it’s a pain in the ass. If you have 2 people going to do maintenance and they’re opposite sex, a higher pay grade has to go along to chaperone.

305 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:12:28pm

re: #303 Locker

I wasn’t aware that you could actually “rake” manure.


It has to dry out first.

306 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:13:24pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

If anyone needs some work… I can email you the phone number…

“LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO CAN RAKE MANURE & TAKE IT AWAY CALLS ARE BEST NO HOME COMPUTER…”

PhD required. (Piled High & Deep)

307 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:13:42pm

re: #292 tradewind

Actually, all it takes to cause that in many cases is a habitually- propped bottle of juice or milk in infancy, babies sucking themselves to sleep and rotting their baby teeth.
Child abuse, IMO.

True. I noticed from some of your posts that you are a fellow Tennesseean?(I believe that was you?) I was also talking about the 5 year old kids you see with every tooth rotted, which could have begun in infancy, I guess.

308 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:14:24pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton
This would be your target-rich environment when it comes to expert bullshiite handlers….you’ll find somebody.

309 CarleeCork  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:14:39pm

re: #307 tnguitarist

True. I noticed from some of your posts that you are a fellow Tennesseean?(I believe that was you?) I was also talking about the 5 year old kids you see with every tooth rotted, which could have begun in infancy, I guess.


And lack of dental care.

310 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:14:50pm

re: #303 Locker

I wasn’t aware that you could actually “rake” manure.

That’s what the ad said… I got that off of our local community forum, which is really a handy place. Web cams of local roads, classifieds, multiple forums on different subjects, weather, feed from some of the automatic message signs on our mountain highways, people who monitor police for accidents and stuff… very handy.

311 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:14:56pm

re: #296 pingjockey

Yah! You do realize all the boats will have to be retrofitted to have women aboard?

Just officers quarters..Big deal..We spent a Billion to retro the SSN683 in DD#3 then shit canned it…
The most awesome boat I’ve ever worked on…
Hi Ping!

312 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:15:36pm

And I’m out of here… to work…

313 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:15:39pm

Walter is re: #290 Renaissance_Man

If you want to come out as bitextual, that’s totally up to you man. It’s the 21st century, people shouldn’t judge if you want to fight with both persuasions.

I think the Ren Man is hitting his stride.

314 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:16:04pm

re: #307 tnguitarist
TN, yes. Some parts would say ’ just barely ‘.
I’m afraid that lots of parents still see baby teeth as expendable.

315 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:16:11pm

re: #303 Locker

I wasn’t aware that you could actually “rake” manure.

There’s a book on that.

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:16:39pm

re: #269 Rightwingconspirator

OT
Immigration rally Los Angeles

Boy I sure want to get down there to see and take some video with stills.

LAPD says up tp 100,000 whatever that forecast means.

Bet Ringo will report. Are you in the neighborhood?

317 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:16:51pm

Heh, a Firefly quote rates a top 10.
You guys/gals are awesome.
:)

318 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:17:07pm

re: #311 HoosierHoops
Howdy! So, it’s just gonna be Os to start with? That won’t be so bad for a retrofit. I have no idea how they’d set a boat up for enlisted women. Surface ships are easy, at least FFs/DDs/CGs. Just select one berthing space and that’s the womens.

319 prairiefire  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:18:38pm

re: #313 prairiefire

I was going to say “Walter is a karma chameleon.”Youtube Video

320 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:18:51pm

re: #318 pingjockey
Better add a birthing space to that, if it’s gonna be a long voyage.
What could go wrong?//

321 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:19:47pm

re: #316 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes I am. I work within 1 block of Broadway. I live within easy subway range. And I photograph downtown regularly. Practically my private photo safari range.

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:20:12pm

re: #296 pingjockey

Yah! You do realize all the boats will have to be retrofitted to have women aboard?

How hard is it to install a tampon dispenser?

323 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:20:45pm

re: #320 tradewind
Heh. Happened during GWI. A maintenance ship went over, had a bout 600 women on board, about half came back pregnant. You have over 1000 17, 18, 19, year olds on a boat, just floating around, well, mother nature will find a way.

324 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:21:58pm

re: #99 recusancy

So should we not be dealing with global warming? Should we not be lessening the amount of CO2 and other GHG’s that we spew into the air? Or does Al Gore give you a straw man to punch so you don’t have to engage in the substance of the matter?

We should deal with global warming. The problem is real whether or not Al Gore gives bad reasons for thinking that it’s real. It’s real whether or not he profiteers on essentially fraudulent schemes billed as “offsets”. I think he did all these things, but so what?

The problem is likewise real whether or not some scientists at East Anglia published flawed research. It’s real whether or not the hockey stick graph was got by cherry picking data. I happen to think that these particular scientists are not frauds and have on the whole done good work. But so what?

Personalities are not the deciding thing in scientific questions. No matter who did what juicy scandalous thing or didn’t, the arctic sea ice is in retreat, winter is shorter, spring comes sooner, the glaciers are in retreat, shrubbery dots the north slope of Alaska where before there was nothing larger than a tussock growing, and so forth. The evidence, whether or not some little bit of it here or there is fishy, is overwhelming. Whether or not the glove fits, you must convict.

325 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:22:22pm

re: #323 pingjockey

Heh. Happened during GWI. A maintenance ship went over, had a bout 600 women on board, about half came back pregnant. You have over 1000 17, 18, 19, year olds on a boat, just floating around, well, mother nature will find a way.

Youtube Video

326 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:22:24pm

re: #318 pingjockey

Howdy! So, it’s just gonna be Os to start with? That won’t be so bad for a retrofit. I have no idea how they’d set a boat up for enlisted women. Surface ships are easy, at least FFs/DDs/CGs. Just select one berthing space and that’s the womens.

Yes..This program is only for our best woman officers in the Navy…
I expect..and demand our male officers act in a professional manner..
Of Course..I was working on Subs during the Tailhook scandal.. the Navy has grown through pain…Trust me it hurt the Navy..Shit went down everywhere..It was ugly for awhile

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:22:27pm

re: #323 pingjockey

Heh. Happened during GWI. A maintenance ship went over, had a bout 600 women on board, about half came back pregnant. You have over 1000 17, 18, 19, year olds on a boat, just floating around, well, mother nature will find a way.

Next time, maybe bring along some protection?

328 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:22:29pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist
A submarine is basically a 30 foot diameter steel pipe 400 feet long. Not a lot of room for cabins or seperate living quarters. As far as plumbing, the list of steps to use the head is about 15 seperate things you have to do, in order to use the crapper.

329 rwdflynavy  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:22:40pm

re: #141 darthstar

I want to be more green. Can I mail you my shit and you can flush it along with yours? I’d really like to save some water here.

What is hilarious is that you just created a fairly accurate description of the carbon offset business model!

330 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:22:56pm

News from the great state of AZ. They dropped the birther bill!!!

The bill had won initial approval from the Arizona House of Representatives about a week ago, but legislators say it won’t reach the state Senate before adjournment because not enough Republicans support it.

Oh how smart of them!

TPM

331 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:23:13pm

re: #325 Varek Raith
You got it!

332 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:23:14pm

re: #285 Floral Giraffe

It could get wild emotions are very high.

333 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:23:32pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

How hard is it to install a tampon dispenser?


haha. One that isn’t broken or empty.

334 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:23:41pm

re: #323 pingjockey

Heh. Happened during GWI. A maintenance ship went over, had a bout 600 women on board, about half came back pregnant. You have over 1000 17, 18, 19, year olds on a boat, just floating around, well, mother nature will find a way.

Actually, it wasn’t Mother Nature…it was the fucking.

335 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:23:48pm

re: #323 pingjockey
That’s just discouraging.
I flew some MACs in DS, and I don’t think I ever saw a servicewoman who was ( obviously) pregnant…then again, there were not really all that many women on those flights.

336 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:24:08pm

re: #326 HoosierHoops
We had a fit about hazing. Got so bad a lot of ships just blew off any kind of crossing the line ceremony. Sad.

337 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:24:43pm

re: #329 rwdflynavy

What is hilarious is that you just created a fairly accurate description of the carbon offset business model!

And it supports FedExcrement.

338 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:25:05pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist
They can always retrofit a condom machine.
On second thought, leave ‘em be.

339 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:25:18pm

re: #327 SanFranciscoZionist
I don’t think the kids gave a shit. BTW, there used to be, when we pulled into port, outside of sickbay, a large box of condoms, free for the taking!

340 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:25:29pm

re: #333 Stanley Sea

haha. One that isn’t broken or empty.

Nah, you just have a little box like the airlines do. If they’re free, no one will break the machine!

341 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:26:11pm

re: #332 Rightwingconspirator

It could get wild emotions are very high.

Yes, I agree. If you go, be safe!

342 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:26:25pm

re: #338 tradewind

They can always retrofit a condom machine.
On second thought, leave ‘em be.

The scientists at the South Pole stations get shipments of condoms…the last thing they want is to have to leave in the middle of a study because they got pregnant.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:26:27pm

re: #339 pingjockey

I don’t think the kids gave a shit. BTW, there used to be, when we pulled into port, outside of sickbay, a large box of condoms, free for the taking!

Good grief. Latex, people, latex is your friend. Unless you are allergic to it.

344 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:26:33pm

re: #236 darthstar

I’ve got a rack of pork I need to cook. Thinking about slow-roasting it this weekend. Normally, I part it out into giant pork-sickles and cook them individually…but I can nom on pork for days and not get tired of it, so this weekend it’s either getting a low-temp bbq or maybe a slow-braise in the crock pot.

I’ve also got a bunch of corn husks, so I might just have to make tamales out of some of it.

sorry for the delay here, mowing the lawn…

You might try pulled pork …. 225 for a long time in a ceramic cooker with the right marinade….

345 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:26:33pm

re: #341 Floral Giraffe

Thank you and I certainly will.

346 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:27:17pm

re: #336 pingjockey

We had a fit about hazing. Got so bad a lot of ships just blew off any kind of crossing the line ceremony. Sad.

Have you ever become a polywog?
I bet you were you stud you..
Regards

347 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:27:22pm

re: #342 darthstar

The scientists at the South Pole stations get shipments of condoms…the last thing they want is to have to leave in the middle of a study because they got pregnant.

Reminds me of the photo in the thread link. They look like they have a bit of fun, no doubt.

348 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:27:40pm

re: #335 tradewind
It may have got better. I retired in 1997. A lot of the “small boys” were getting women on board. Women used to be restricted to serving on aircraft carriers, supply ships, tenders. Large ships.

349 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:27:55pm

re: #337 darthstar
That’s a sh-tty way to describe a great company and one of the nation’s best employers.

350 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:28:01pm

re: #344 Thanos

sorry for the delay here, mowing the lawn…

You might try pulled pork … 225 for a long time in a ceramic cooker with the right marinade…

Good idea…I’ve got some Le Creusets that would be good for that.

351 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:29:05pm

re: #342 darthstar
I hope they’re not depending on them entirely in an environment where failsafe is critical.

352 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:29:40pm

re: #346 HoosierHoops
A shellback, you frakkin’ bubble head! A pollywog is someone who’s never crossed the equator. Last cruise I did, I was Davey Jones. 2nd oldest shellback on board. Oldest shellback gets to be King Neptune.

353 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:29:42pm

re: #349 tradewind

That’s a sh-tty way to describe a great company and one of the nation’s best employers.

Ha! you said ‘shitty’…and speaking of shitty…did you know FedEx counts their drivers as ‘pilots’ so they can’t unionize? FedEx is a private airline, officially, and that includes the guys doing neighborhood deliveries. Best employer my ass.

354 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:29:45pm

re: #326 HoosierHoops

Yes..This program is only for our best woman officers in the Navy…
I expect..and demand our male officers act in a professional manner..
Of Course..I was working on Subs during the Tailhook scandal.. the Navy has grown through pain…Trust me it hurt the Navy..Shit went down everywhere..It was ugly for awhile

Women have certain advantages on a sub also. They eat less, breathe less and are shorter.

My biggest worry when I was on a sub was banging my head.

As far as professionalism is concerned I think that the sub community is one place where we have one of the best chances of pulling that off. Even the lowest rating on a sub is not just some shlub. I am hoping that the superior education and discipline that subs require will translate well into taking care of any women officers on the subs.

Of course at the end of the day, it will all come down to the capabilities of the skipper. If he has a good handle on his crew, he will institute and enforce policies that will make it difficult for infractions to happen in the first place.

As to tail hook and crossing the line ceremonies, it is one thing to have a little hazing it is another to endanger the lives of crew mates. There wre a lot of cases where stuff got way out of hand and one has to wonder what the skipper was thinking.

355 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:30:39pm

re: #328 pingjockey

A submarine is basically a 30 foot diameter steel pipe 400 feet long. Not a lot of room for cabins or seperate living quarters. As far as plumbing, the list of steps to use the head is about 15 seperate things you have to do, in order to use the crapper.

And god help you if it is one of the vacuum suction jobs that goes in reverse!

356 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:31:18pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist
I did a double take ‘til I scrolled down a line.
:)

357 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:31:28pm

Back to the lawn… we have those helicopter seeds everywhere… grrrrffff

358 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:31:36pm

re: #354 LudwigVanQuixote
I was on DDs/FFs/CGs and even at a ripping 5’8”, I worried about banging my head. On a boat, if you’re over 5’10” it could get hazardous.

359 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:32:28pm

re: #352 pingjockey

A shellback, you frakkin’ bubble head! A pollywog is someone who’s never crossed the equator. Last cruise I did, I was Davey Jones. 2nd oldest shellback on board. Oldest shellback gets to be King Neptune.

LOL! Did you get a crown & scepter & everything?
See, I learned something here today!
LGF is educational!

360 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:32:43pm

re: #358 pingjockey

I was on DDs/FFs/CGs and even at a ripping 5’8”, I worried about banging my head. On a boat, if you’re over 5’10” it could get hazardous.

Yes it could.

361 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:33:20pm

re: #355 LudwigVanQuixote
Hah! I was on a missle tracking ship with a bunch of boomer types and they had some horror stories about that, or the CHT line coming unhooked while pumping to the tender. Oh Shit! is mildly descriptive.

362 [deleted]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:33:23pm
363 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:34:06pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Operation Frog Pond

A Guide to Building a Pond to Attract Frogs

Hooray! Just what I needed.

Possibly my favorite article on backyard habitats, showing both the good and the bad:

Killing Field by Steven Malanga

364 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:34:10pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

The two things I most see are that he leads a wealthy international lifestyle, which of necessity means he’s maintaining a large personal carbon footprint (and people feel personally affronted, as a result, when they imagine him asking them to make sacrifices).

And also concern about his investment in green industries, which I don’t get at all.


Actually, if I thought he’d come by this money honestly, I wouldn’t mind his living large. Envy is unbecoming. I don’t mind the high living of the deservedly rich, and there are many who fall into that category. But I don’t think Gore came by his money halfway honestly. He’s gaming the political system. It’s not legally a pyramid scheme because the marks are the taxpaying public, and Congress has the authority to appropriate public funds to enrich its close friends, just so it’s done with a couple of fig leaves.

If Gore were investing in straight-up green projects, such as wind, solar, and nuclear energy, I’d have no problem with that. But he invests in projects such as making a “green” electric car in Finland, that are all hat and no cattle. This projects receives incredible subsidies, thanks to special appropriations from Congress. He will benefit. But don’t bet on there ever actually being a car, let alone a mass market car.

There are real efforts to make electric cars, but it is impossible to take Gore’s project seriously. Billions of dollars is serious money, but the project itself will not come to anything much in the material world of cars on the road.

Consider, for a moment, what you would think of Gore if you knew these charges to be true?

365 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:34:32pm

re: #359 Floral Giraffe
King Neptune got the sceptre and crown. I got to pass sentence, along with the Royal Judge on the hapless ‘wogs brought before the royal court.

366 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:35:08pm

re: #353 darthstar
They have the best benefits and working conditions, hiring practices, etc… on site child care, great flex stuff, and they are consistently listed as one of the ten best places to work.

did you know FedEx counts their drivers as ‘pilots’ so they can’t unionize?


Ummmm….. FedX pilots are union. And their drivers are often recent high school graduates working part time.

367 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:35:26pm

re: #361 pingjockey

Hah! I was on a missle tracking ship with a bunch of boomer types and they had some horror stories about that, or the CHT line coming unhooked while pumping to the tender. Oh Shit! is mildly descriptive.

Yeah, you hear one of those stories and you sort of want to “squat and shoot” from a distance. Couple that with having to move through tight quarters to take a limited shower and it is a really horrible thought.

368 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:35:59pm

Heard a wonderful conspiracy theory today. The greens blew up the oil rig in the gulf so we won’t drill off of our coasts!

369 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:36:30pm

re: #368 pingjockey

Heard a wonderful conspiracy theory today. The greens blew up the oil rig in the gulf so we won’t drill off of our coasts!

I’m sure Fox will cover that as fact, and say they found evidence of the plot in Noah’s ark.

370 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:36:57pm

re: #367 LudwigVanQuixote
I do not miss ‘navy’ showers. 3 minutes to get clean just doesn’t cut it.

371 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:37:25pm

re: #368 pingjockey

Heard a wonderful conspiracy theory today. The greens blew up the oil rig in the gulf so we won’t drill off of our coasts!

I wouldn’t put it past them.
///

372 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:37:41pm

re: #369 darthstar
That Noah’s Ark thing, was so over the top. I didn’t even go look. Madness.

373 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:38:04pm

Afternoon Lizards.

374 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:38:14pm

re: #352 pingjockey

A shellback, you frakkin’ bubble head! A pollywog is someone who’s never crossed the equator. Last cruise I did, I was Davey Jones. 2nd oldest shellback on board. Oldest shellback gets to be King Neptune.

Ahhh…I worked for the DOD as a Nuke on Subs for 20 years.. I was never in the service..I was hired out of College at MINSY. I often did test dives..And it was scary as shit…When you shut the hatch in the Sail and dive deep looking for leaks with a flashlight in the Fan room crawling behind equipment.. It’s not a ‘this is cool moment!’ It truly is terrifying day.. Nobody signs up for test dives..They select civilians from a list…It sucks when your boss hates your guts..
Wink

375 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:39:05pm

re: #374 HoosierHoops
Wow! I think the USS Thresher was at the back of your mind!

376 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:39:53pm

re: #364 lostlakehiker

I love the expression all hat and no cattle.

377 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:40:34pm

re: #370 pingjockey

What? 1 min to wet down, 1 min to wash and 1 min to rinse. Then 1-2 min to squeegee the walls down after you are done. That’s five minutes. More than enough time.

378 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:40:43pm

re: #278 LudwigVanQuixote

got it!

379 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:42:16pm

re: #378 reine.de.tout

got it!

yummy and easy and feeds six hungry guys.

380 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:42:16pm

re: #377 Bubblehead II
Riiiight. Try that shit after doing unrep and getting JP-5 all over yourself. Used to hate going into the PG. The water is so warm, the evaporators to make fresh water won’t work right.

381 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:42:36pm

re: #293 darthstar

These need to be seen in sequence:

Momma worried about her baby…
Squirrel 1

Momma jumping in to save baby…
Squirrel 2

Momma getting the dog distracted…
Squirrel 3

Dog saying, “What the fuck? Did I just get my ass kicked by a squirrel?”
Squirrel 4

Cute!

382 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:43:04pm

re: #375 pingjockey

Wow! I think the USS Thresher was at the back of your mind!

Once i made top secret clearance I took a class on the Thresher.. The beginning of the Subsafe program in the Navy.. We heard the hull crush on a recording…Subsafe wasn’t play school with the Navy…

383 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:43:34pm

re: #374 HoosierHoops

Well what the hell do you expect? You are going out to sea on board a ship that is designed to sink and built by the lowest bidder to boot.

384 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:43:48pm

re: #381 reine.de.tout
Every time I see something about squirrels now, I flash to that dog in the movie UP.

385 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:43:54pm

re: #313 prairiefire

Walter is

I think the Ren Man is hitting his stride.

I’m quite impressed with the Ren Man, even when I don’t agree with him, he makes sense.

386 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:44:25pm

re: #364 lostlakehiker
His whole importance re the green movement got its biggest boost from the fact that Hollywood’s A list, is DC-struck….. they adore basking in the glow of presidents and veeps, and Gore was happy to play. He was willing to adopt their pet projects, notably save the rainforests , etc, as his own, and the rest is history.
I’m not saying he’s not a true believer. …just that Hollywood gave him his push.

387 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:44:28pm

re: #382 HoosierHoops
I’ve heard that tape in sonar school, spooky as hell.

388 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:45:26pm

re: #369 darthstar
Underneath all the ark thing, I believe that Fox is merely reporting on the reports…… not advocating that the ark to be put into evidence.//

389 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:45:31pm

re: #383 Bubblehead II
Sounds like that line on Apollo 13, when they’re talking about the lunar lander being built by the lowest bidder!

390 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:45:33pm

re: #382 HoosierHoops

Once i made top secret clearance I took a class on the Thresher.. The beginning of the Subsafe program in the Navy.. We heard the hull crush on a recording…Subsafe wasn’t play school with the Navy…

Ugly way to die. There aren’t any particularly good ones, but that is a nightmare.

391 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:45:41pm

re: #344 Thanos

sorry for the delay here, mowing the lawn…

You might try pulled pork … 225 for a long time in a ceramic cooker with the right marinade…

The phrase “pulled pork” just always sounds wrong to me.
Sort of like “spotted dick”.
I get weird images in my head.

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:46:27pm

re: #364 lostlakehiker

Actually, if I thought he’d come by this money honestly, I wouldn’t mind his living large. Envy is unbecoming. I don’t mind the high living of the deservedly rich, and there are many who fall into that category. But I don’t think Gore came by his money halfway honestly. He’s gaming the political system. It’s not legally a pyramid scheme because the marks are the taxpaying public, and Congress has the authority to appropriate public funds to enrich its close friends, just so it’s done with a couple of fig leaves.

If Gore were investing in straight-up green projects, such as wind, solar, and nuclear energy, I’d have no problem with that. But he invests in projects such as making a “green” electric car in Finland, that are all hat and no cattle. This projects receives incredible subsidies, thanks to special appropriations from Congress. He will benefit. But don’t bet on there ever actually being a car, let alone a mass market car.

There are real efforts to make electric cars, but it is impossible to take Gore’s project seriously. Billions of dollars is serious money, but the project itself will not come to anything much in the material world of cars on the road.

Consider, for a moment, what you would think of Gore if you knew these charges to be true?

Seriously? I think that sweetheart deals for politicians are both unpleasant and a fact of life. Since I know basically nothing about what Al Gore chooses to invest in, I really can’t assess it very well.

I do think that there are a lot of people making dubious money in the world who don’t seem to fascinate so. If I knew this to be true? Al Gore would still be one of the people I think about least. So I’m not sure why you care what I would think about Al Gore if some hypothetical charges were true. I am not an Al Gore fan, or an Al Gore hater. I have almost no strong feelings about Al Gore.

Now, Congress is making appropriations and paying people in Finland to develop an electric car? Can you link me some information about this? How do you make money developing an electric car if there’s no electric car? And why aren’t we paying Americans to produce an electric car if we want one?

393 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:46:48pm

re: #391 reine.de.tout

The phrase “pulled pork” just always sounds wrong to me.
Sort of like “spotted dick”.
I get weird images in my head.

They both sound like euphemisms for masturbation…

394 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:46:50pm

re: #380 pingjockey

Didn’t have to worry about JP-5. Diesel and hydraulic fluid was the worse I had to put up with. If you got sprayed with that, you didn’t use regular bath soap. You used dish soap.

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:47:24pm

re: #368 pingjockey

Heard a wonderful conspiracy theory today. The greens blew up the oil rig in the gulf so we won’t drill off of our coasts!

Oy gevalt.

396 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:47:54pm

re: #391 reine.de.tout
You should visit the world barbecue championships in May. Pulled pork would never again be a conceptual problem.

397 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:48:06pm

re: #389 pingjockey

Thresher and Scorpion are the reason we have the Sub-Safe program.

398 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:48:37pm

re: #394 Bubblehead II
Yah. I wish we’d of had liqid dish soap. Long ago and far away. Wow. 30 years since my first trip to the Persian Gulf. DAYUM!

399 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:49:32pm

re: #352 pingjockey

A shellback, you frakkin’ bubble head! A pollywog is someone who’s never crossed the equator. Last cruise I did, I was Davey Jones. 2nd oldest shellback on board. Oldest shellback gets to be King Neptune.

Davey Jones, isn’t he the pirate who looks like Cthulu?

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:49:43pm

re: #393 LudwigVanQuixote

They both sound like euphemisms for masturbation…

No, ‘pulling the pork’ sounds like a euphemism for masturbation. ‘Spotted dick’ sounds like what you get if you don’t wear a condom while fooling around on a mixed-gender submarine.

401 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:49:46pm

re: #397 Bubblehead II
’ Sub Safe’ just doesn’t sound right.
Makes me think of below-average risk avoidance.

402 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:49:46pm

re: #393 LudwigVanQuixote

They both sound like euphemisms for masturbation…

Uh, yeah.
But I wasn’t gonna say it OUT LOUD.
LOL.

403 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:49:56pm

re: #397 Bubblehead II
That would make a ton of sense. I have no idea of how many boats the Russians have lost. I know personally of at least 4. And I’m sure there’s more.

404 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:50:25pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

No, ‘pulling the pork’ sounds like a euphemism for masturbation. ‘Spotted dick’ sounds like what you get if you don’t wear a condom while fooling around on a mixed-gender submarine.

Thank you…I was going to say something similar.

405 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:50:28pm

re: #396 tradewind

You should visit the world barbecue championships in May. Pulled pork would never again be a conceptual problem.

I’ve had pulled pork, and love it.
Just - some word combinations throw me a curve.

406 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:50:59pm

re: #390 LudwigVanQuixote

I always described a deep depth hull breach as being akin to being in a diesel cylinder. The super heated air would flash fry you and the water would put you out. Which one actually killed you was kinda moot.

407 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:51:02pm

re: #389 pingjockey

It was actually true, a radio quote from Gus Grisholm.
Not just a line in a movie!
Makes it scarier.

408 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:51:04pm

re: #399 Alouette
Heh. The wife saw the pictures and wanted to know who our costume designer was!

409 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:51:42pm

re: #403 pingjockey

That would make a ton of sense. I have no idea of how many boats the Russians have lost. I know personally of at least 4. And I’m sure there’s more.

God knows what happened during the Soviet Era that was never reported.

My hsuband tells me that there’s some suspicion now about spacecraft they may have lost and never let anyone know about. This could be an urban legend, I haven’t looked it up, but DAYUM, I wouldn’t be surprised.

410 dog philosopher  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:52:03pm

The greens blew up the oil rig in the gulf so we won’t drill off of our coasts!

the next stage is for somebody to run against solar and wind power because of the danger of wind spills and rampant sun pollution

411 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:52:27pm

re: #399 Alouette

Davey Jones, isn’t he the pirate who looks like Cthulu?

How does a nice Yiddische grandma know who Cthulu is? ;)

412 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:52:32pm

re: #407 Floral Giraffe
Well, it is true. All gov’t projects, well most I guess usually go to the lowest bidder, everything from subs to jets. Yup, makes you think.

413 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:01pm

re: #403 pingjockey
It wasn’t all that long ago that they could experience a major air disaster and the rest of the world didn’t hear about it until weeks after the fact.

414 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:12pm

re: #408 pingjockey

Heh. The wife saw the pictures and wanted to know who our costume designer was!

Linky?
LOL!

415 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:18pm

re: #387 pingjockey

I’ve heard that tape in sonar school, spooky as hell.

Horrible way to die..I can’t recall but It was a year or 18 months to become subsafe qualified…A high pressure salt water leak in the overhead of the Reactor Control room that scrams the reactor is Death to any Sailor.. Plus a design of high pressure lines to the emergency blow ballast tanks freezing up prevented a surface to save them…Very sad..The Navy learned alot from that tragedy

416 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:32pm

re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote

How does a nice Yiddische grandma know who Cthulu is? ;)

From reading LGF!

417 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:37pm

re: #410 engineer dog

The greens blew up the oil rig in the gulf so we won’t drill off of our coasts!

the next stage is for somebody to run against solar and wind power because of the danger of wind spills and rampant sun pollution

/wind doesn’t spill, it breaks…

418 Jack Burton  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:47pm

re: #399 Alouette

Davey Jones, isn’t he the pirate who looks like Cthulu?

I thought he was one of The Monkeys.

/

419 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:50pm

re: #406 Bubblehead II

I always described a deep depth hull breach as being akin to being in a diesel cylinder. The super heated air would flash fry you and the water would put you out. Which one actually killed you was kinda moot.

Not stuff that would be fun to think about one bit. That is why submariners get hazard pay. There really isn’t so much of the abandon ship if it hits the fan.

420 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:53:54pm

re: #397 Bubblehead II

The Chief A-Ganger on my first boat (SSN-665) clued me in on that when I was a lowly E-3 and was tasked with cleaning out a bilge and couldn’t get the oil off. Carried a small bottle every time we went out to sea after that.

421 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:54:46pm

re: #409 SanFranciscoZionist
There was a book with all the space launches everybody had done, and the Sovs had a bunch with this notation “midcourse correction failed. Missed the moon by 1000 naticual miles.”

422 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:55:00pm

re: #420 Bubblehead II

The Chief A-Ganger on my first boat (SSN-665) clued me in on that when I was a lowly E-3 and was tasked with cleaning out a bilge and couldn’t get the oil off. Carried a small bottle every time we went out to sea after that.

And, I trust you shared that with every lowly E-3 you met!

423 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:55:17pm

re: #410 engineer dog
Kidding aside, aren’t they going to burn it off to prevent the washing up onshore, figuring the smoke would be the lesser of two evils?

424 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:55:47pm

Someone please tell me about the Finnish electric car Congress is paying for. I’m heading out, but will log on when I get home.

I Googled. Didn’t find it, or didn’t get what I was looking at.

425 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:55:50pm

re: #414 Floral Giraffe
Not gonna happen! Actually, if I could get them from print to computer, y’all would get a big kick out of them.

426 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:56:25pm

re: #401 tradewind

Short for Submarine Safety. And they are serious about it. A Main Sea Water valve that deviates as much as 1/1000 from spec will be routinely rejected.

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:56:39pm

re: #423 tradewind

Kidding aside, aren’t they going to burn it off to prevent the washing up onshore, figuring the smoke would be the lesser of two evils?

I had heard that. Not sure what they’re deciding on.

428 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:57:01pm

re: #415 HoosierHoops
I’ve never considered myself claustrophobic, but thinking about spending any length of time in a submarine is causing me to back off that…..

429 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:57:37pm

re: #426 Bubblehead II
I got to do the Buttercup Trainer they have in Newport, RI. That will get your attention damn quick.

430 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:57:48pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

No, ‘pulling the pork’ sounds like a euphemism for masturbation. ‘Spotted dick’ sounds like what you get if you don’t wear a condom while fooling around on a mixed-gender submarine.

I am certain that the first female officers on board our boats are going to have a rather strict shomer negia like policy enforced by very large CPO’s - who will take someone behind a bit of equipment and “correct them.”

These women are not your average lady. They are people who are nuclear physicists in addition to having the courage and competence to stand watch on subs.

I would expect also that amongst the other officers, a young female JG would find several “older brothers.”

431 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:57:50pm

re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote

How does a nice Yiddische grandma know who Cthulu is? ;)

She had the misfortune to be at Coney Island they day he attacked it? ;)

432 darthstar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:58:31pm

re: #423 tradewind

Kidding aside, aren’t they going to burn it off to prevent the washing up onshore, figuring the smoke would be the lesser of two evils?

Burning will take care of some of the oil, but they’ve found a third leak at the bottom (one mile below the ocean’s surface) so there’s a lot more oil leaking than first known. One plan is to put a ‘dome’ above the leak to trap the oil so it can be pumped out to ships, but even that will only partially effective. What is needed is some way to put a new cap on the rig at the bottom of the ocean, but there’s nothing designed for that at the moment. This could leak for weeks or months or even longer.

My guess is someone will eventually recommend detonating an explosive device to clear the crap from around the leak and then they’ll sink a new “house” on top of it…but that too will take an extended amount of time.

433 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:58:34pm

re: #426 Bubblehead II

Short for Submarine Safety. And they are serious about it. A Main Sea Water valve that deviates as much as 1/1000 from spec will be routinely rejected.

Who the hell are you? I’ve never met a lizard here that knew shit about Subsafe…Nice meeting you

434 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:58:40pm

Freakazoid nut sandwich…..
Beck again suggests he may be killed: “I’m not suicidal, I’m not depressed, I don’t like to swim with the fishes …” (video)

If he kicks over from a heart attack one day his followers are going to become very dangerous.

435 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:58:41pm

re: #424 SanFranciscoZionist

Someone please tell me about the Finnish electric car Congress is paying for. I’m heading out, but will log on when I get home.

I Googled. Didn’t find it, or didn’t get what I was looking at.

Fisker Karma…

apps1.eere.energy.gov

436 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:58:49pm

re: #412 pingjockey

Well, it is true. All gov’t projects, well most I guess usually go to the lowest bidder, everything from subs to jets. Yup, makes you think.

They go to the lowest bidder who meets all the project specifications.
It’s not always the same thing as the actual lowest bidder.

437 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:59:16pm

re: #430 LudwigVanQuixote

I am certain that the first female officers on board our boats are going to have a rather strict shomer negia like policy enforced by very large CPO’s - who will take someone behind a bit of equipment and “correct them.”

These women are not your average lady. They are people who are nuclear physicists in addition to having the courage and competence to stand watch on subs.

I would expect also that amongst the other officers, a young female JG would find several “older brothers.”

Forgive the question from the non-Jew, but what does that bolded term mean?

438 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:59:28pm

re: #402 reine.de.tout

Uh, yeah.
But I wasn’t gonna say it OUT LOUD.
LOL.

I know but I have a reflexive urge sometimes to make really nice ladies that remind me of my mum (trust me its a compliment) blush.

439 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 3:59:59pm

re: #432 darthstar
Damn, hate that.
Better stock up on Dawn liquid , coastal folks.

440 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:00:04pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon

Forgive the question from the non-Jew, but what does that bolded term mean?

No touchy

441 pingjockey  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:00:29pm

re: #436 reine.de.tout
True that. I misspoke. Thanks for clearing that up. I gotta go. The better half just got home. BBIAW.

442 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:00:30pm

re: #433 HoosierHoops

Who the hell are you? I’ve never met a lizard here that knew shit about Subsafe…Nice meeting you

Really you think I never heard of it?

443 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:00:33pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon
Yeah, me too.

444 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:01:01pm

re: #437 Dark_Falcon

Forgive the question from the non-Jew, but what does that bolded term mean?

It means you don’t touch her.

445 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:01:02pm

re: #403 pingjockey

That would make a ton of sense. I have no idea of how many boats the Russians have lost. I know personally of at least 4. And I’m sure there’s more.

We will probably never really know. I do know that when I heard that the Kursk went down that the first thing that went through my mind was that I hoped they all died immediately. Cold and cruel? Not really. Think of coal miners trapped below ground. No fresh air and freezing temps. Same for those who ride the boats, except the coal miner have some chance of being rescued.

446 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:01:46pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Freakazoid nut sandwich…
Beck again suggests he may be killed: “I’m not suicidal, I’m not depressed, I don’t like to swim with the fishes …” (video)

If he kicks over from a heart attack one day his followers are going to become very dangerous.

Not likely, thank goodness. He gave up drinking and he lives a fairly healthy lifestyle.

447 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:02:04pm

re: #423 tradewind

Kidding aside, aren’t they going to burn it off to prevent the washing up onshore, figuring the smoke would be the lesser of two evils?

They did a test burn yesterday, it went well.
I haven’t seen anything (yet) today as to whether or not they’ve continued to burn.

It’s expected to reach the Louisiana coastline this evening or tomorrow.

448 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:02:31pm

re: #440 Alouette

re: #444 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you. I figured as much but it never hurts to be sure.

449 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:02:39pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout
Sigh.
Maybe a preemptive lockup is best for the nation. Might as well take that patriot act for a spin……//

450 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:13pm
Antarctic landscape framed by a starboard hole on board the RV Palmer, April 20.

Hey! What’s an RV doing on the ice. Winnebagos can’t float.

//

451 dog philosopher  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:31pm

shomer negia

this is not a term i learned from the bubbe or the zayde, so don’t feel terribly non-jewish of you don’t know it

453 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:48pm

re: #423 tradewind

The last projection I saw, was it was going to come ashore late today, in a very sensitive wildlife area. Off to find it!

454 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:50pm

re: #447 reine.de.tout
I’m sorry for ya’ll, Reine.
Selfishly hoping it doesn’t drift East down the coast towards the beaches of South Walton…….

455 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:51pm

re: #409 SanFranciscoZionist

God knows what happened during the Soviet Era that was never reported.

My hsuband tells me that there’s some suspicion now about spacecraft they may have lost and never let anyone know about. This could be an urban legend, I haven’t looked it up, but DAYUM, I wouldn’t be surprised.

I have formerly Soviet, Russian colleagues who confirm several fatal incidents with the cosmonauts.

456 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:03:56pm

re: #450 Gus 802

Hey! What’s an RV doing on the ice. Winnebagos can’t float.

//

If a Winnebago can fly in space…
:)

457 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:04:11pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Freakazoid nut sandwich…
Beck again suggests he may be killed: “I’m not suicidal, I’m not depressed, I don’t like to swim with the fishes …” (video)

If he kicks over from a heart attack one day his followers are going to become very dangerous.

The only danger Beck’s in is that Fox will want him to blow his own brains out on air to boost their ratings.

459 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:04:45pm

re: #453 Floral Giraffe
Yeah, oil and pelicans are a notoriously bad mix.
Hope it fizzles.

460 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:05:00pm

re: #453 Floral Giraffe

news.yahoo.com

461 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:05:30pm

re: #456 Varek Raith

If a Winnebago can fly in space…
:)

The Winnebago made it up to space.

The re-entry was rather rough.

/

462 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:05:42pm

re: #458 Varek Raith

Image: roflcopter.gif

HA!

463 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:06:06pm

re: #419 LudwigVanQuixote

Not stuff that would be fun to think about one bit. That is why submariners get hazard pay. There really isn’t so much of the abandon ship if it hits the fan.

You don’t think about it. If you did, you would go insane. You trust in your training and knowledge of the Boat and that of your fellow Crew. BTW, there is no greater insult that you can level against another Submariner than to insinuate that his Dolphins were “Grapes” or not earned.

464 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:06:38pm

re: #457 jamesfirecat

The only danger Beck’s in is that Fox will want him to blow his own brains out on air to boost their ratings.

what was the name of that movie? Network I think?

465 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:06:57pm

re: #452 Killgore Trout

This is fucking hilarious…
Beck’s defense of his conspiracy theories: “Fox couldn’t allow me to say things that were wrong”

After the Throbbing Memo, that one doesn’t even pass the laugh test. It’s quite clear that networks can be buffaloed into letting favored commentators run with a bogus story.

466 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:07:50pm

re: #464 brookly red

what was the name of that movie? Network I think?

Got it in one my friend.

I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!

467 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:08:02pm

re: #463 Bubblehead II

You don’t think about it. If you did, you would go insane. You trust in your training and knowledge of the Boat and that of your fellow Crew. BTW, there is no greater insult that you can level against another Submariner than to insinuate that his Dolphins were “Grapes” or not earned.

For the record, I never earned dolphins. I was involved as a civilian.

468 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:08:05pm

re: #465 Dark_Falcon

After the Throbbing Memo, that one doesn’t even pass the laugh test. It’s quite clear that networks can be buffaloed into letting favored commentators run with a bogus story.

THE CARS PROGRAM IS A GOVERNMENT PLOT TO TAKE YOUR BELONGINGS!!11!1
-Beck

469 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:08:29pm

re: #451 engineer dog

Welcome, hatchling puppy?

470 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:08:42pm

re: #454 tradewind

I’m sorry for ya’ll, Reine.
Selfishly hoping it doesn’t drift East down the coast towards the beaches of South Walton…

Florida beaches are just so much pretter than La.’s coast.

But many of the areas to be affected are wildlife refuges. Not good.

471 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:08:42pm

re: #465 Dark_Falcon
I’m thinking of that murdered census worker [sic] in KY. Networks couldn’t get that rightwing nutcase lynching on air fast enough…..

472 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:08:52pm

re: #466 jamesfirecat

Got it in one my friend.

I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!

but IIRC he was offed for lack of ratings… well close enough.

473 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:09:56pm

re: #422 Floral Giraffe

No. Live and learn. It wasn’t a required knowledge point. I was just spending to long in the shower trying to get clean and was filling his sanitary tanks up while using potable water from tanks that his people would have to later refill. To clarify, we were in port and had all facilities available.

474 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:10:31pm

re: #470 reine.de.tout

Florida beaches are just so much pretter than La.’s coast.

But many of the areas to be affected are wildlife refuges. Not good.

The wildlife, like the La coast better.
Wildlife hatcheries and habitat are important!
Cleaning oiled seabirds is hard work, and not particularly successful.

475 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:10:44pm

re: #460 Floral Giraffe

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

Saw that coming on the first day. It’s grown to over 1.5 million gallons and I’m quite sure a lot of angry fishermen.

476 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:10:59pm

re: #429 pingjockey

I got to do the Buttercup Trainer they have in Newport, RI. That will get your attention damn quick.

Not familiar with that. Never had the chance to go to R.I.

477 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:11:26pm

re: #466 jamesfirecat

Got it in one my friend.

I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!

Howard Beale - and he is long overdue for the “atonement” speech.

Youtube Video

478 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:11:39pm

re: #470 reine.de.tout
I love the beach place. But the only wildlife you see actually on the beach is pretty much confined to a stray dog off-leash. Well, sea gulls and birds, but not much right there on shore.
LA, on the other hand….. a regular San Diego Zoo, right on the bayou.
Sure hope it misses them.

479 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:12:19pm

re: #475 Gus 802

Saw that coming on the first day. It’s grown to over 1.5 million gallons and I’m quite sure a lot of angry fishermen.

Some good images here.

480 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:12:19pm

re: #452 Killgore Trout

This is fucking hilarious…
Beck’s defense of his conspiracy theories: “Fox couldn’t allow me to say things that were wrong”

I’m beginning to suspect that there might be something wrong with Glenn Beck.

//

481 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:12:37pm

re: #470 reine.de.tout

Florida beaches are just so much pretter than La.’s coast.

But many of the areas to be affected are wildlife refuges. Not good.

Yeah who needs fish and wildlife…

Oil shills always try to downplay the effects of spills like this, but the effects are utterly catastrophic.

482 dog philosopher  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:12:56pm

re: #469 wrenchwench

woof! (thank you!)

483 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:13:22pm

re: #475 Gus 802

Saw that coming on the first day. It’s grown to over 1.5 million gallons and I’m quite sure a lot of angry fishermen.

And eventually, a lot of hungry people. It is not as if the fisheries will be just fine in a week.

484 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:13:47pm

re: #465 Dark_Falcon

After the Throbbing Memo, that one doesn’t even pass the laugh test. It’s quite clear that networks can be buffaloed into letting favored commentators run with a bogus story.

CBS fired Rather to save their credibility. FOX is a whole different situation. They report bogus crap all day long and nobody really seems to care.

485 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:13:50pm

re: #479 reine.de.tout

Some good images here.

It almost has a “cyclonic” pattern.

486 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:14:20pm

re: #433 HoosierHoops

Do a LGF search. Been here for a while. Haven’t hid anything. Have in fact posted about what Boats I have served on.


Karma: 2,131


Bubblehead II
Peace Through Superior Firepower

(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 7, 2007 at 1:39 pm
No. of comments posted: 4,404
No. of links posted: 1

487 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:14:27pm

re: #481 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah who needs fish and wildlife…

Oil shills always try to downplay the effects of spills like this, but the effects are utterly catastrophic.

They can be. This one will be, if they don’t get the flow cut off, and they’ve apparently been unable to do that. BP has a plan where they’ll put down some sort of upside-down umbrella sort of thing, to “catch” the oil as it leaks out, and pipe it to land. But none of the plans can be implemented quickly, and so meanwhile - that stuff just keeps on coming out, no stopping it.

488 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:15:13pm

re: #483 LudwigVanQuixote

And eventually, a lot of hungry people. It is not as if the fisheries will be just fine in a week.

They oyster beds and shrimping will be affected for quite a while! I need to find some articles on that, I know I’ve seen some.

489 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:16:32pm

re: #479 reine.de.tout

Some good images here.

More here:

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

490 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:16:40pm

re: #481 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah who needs fish and wildlife…

Oil shills always try to downplay the effects of spills like this, but the effects are utterly catastrophic.

Drill here! Drill now! Pay fish less?

491 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:17:44pm

re: #473 Bubblehead II

No. Live and learn. It wasn’t a required knowledge point. I was just spending to long in the shower trying to get clean and was filling his sanitary tanks up while using potable water from tanks that his people would have to later refill. To clarify, we were in port and had all facilities available.

I spent 3 years on the Arco in Pearl Harbor…You know the first couple of months climbing the stairs was pure hell…After a while We were jogging upstairs at 4pm..No prob! I should google how many steps on the Arco..It was ugly at first..

492 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:17:54pm

re: #484 Killgore Trout

CBS fired Rather to save their credibility. FOX is a whole different situation. They report bogus crap all day long and nobody really seems to care.

I was making a more general point that invalidated Beck without singling out Fox News. Other news organizations (such as the New York Times) have sometimes stood behind bad stories as well. Fox News has serious problems, but its a mistake to single them out too much.

493 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:18:11pm

re: #489 Gus 802

Couple more:

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

nasa.gov

494 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:18:34pm

re: #488 reine.de.tout

They oyster beds and shrimping will be affected for quite a while! I need to find some articles on that, I know I’ve seen some.

My dad will not like that. He’s a big fan of Gulf Oysters.

495 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:18:49pm

re: #485 Gus 802

It almost has a “cyclonic” pattern.

These two photos show the area where it’s expected to hit first.

496 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:19:43pm

re: #495 reine.de.tout

These two photos show the area where it’s expected to hit first.

Wetlands, estuaries, etc.

497 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:19:44pm

re: #486 Bubblehead II

Do a LGF search. Been here for a while. Haven’t hid anything. Have in fact posted about what Boats I have served on.

Karma: 2,131

Bubblehead II
Peace Through Superior Firepower

(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 7, 2007 at 1:39 pm
No. of comments posted: 4,404
No. of links posted: 1

Well what the hell! Hi you! I’ve built a lot of Subs for 20 years…Like I saiid..Very nice meeting you

498 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:19:56pm

re: #481 LudwigVanQuixote
I haven’t seen any oil executives try to ’ play down ’ the effect of spills.
They usually get on the air pretty quickly with their plans to help clean them up.
I have seen it work the other way, though. I can remember statements by eco groups that Alaska was never, ever going to recover from the Valdez spill, and Prince William Sound was as good as dead. Not so much.
While there are still some effects, the recovery has been amazing.
(I’ve stayed far away from any site that might be construed as anti-environmental).
oceanservice.noaa.gov

499 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:20:03pm

re: #490 JasonA

Drill here! Drill now! Pay fish less?

Yes and don’t forget to add the lie that somehow that extra drilling will make your oil prices go down in America when there is no such thing as an American oil market.

Most of the oil will be bought by nations like China and the only ones to profit will be the oil companies that have bought and paid for their GOP spokescritters. NOt that the Dems don’t have their own equally odious spokes critters, but big oil owns the GOP. Why else would the party most likely to notice how odious the Saudis are and Chavez is, be the ones who do everything in their power to keep trading with them?

500 ausador  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:20:26pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Some of the Sous Vide talk around here lately inspired me to do some experiments in the kitchen today. I think I have the equipment on hand to give it a try so I’ll do Sous Vide leg of lamb this weekend. I’m also going to make sure I have a backup meal on hand because I have no idea how it’s going to come out.

It works perfectly fine for cuts of meat that should be prepared “pretty damn rare” anyway. Personally I like my meat burnt to a crisp and then smothered in mushrooms and butter or some other sauce to give it back some moisture.

Meat that bleeds onto my plate is an absolute turn off (unless it is prime rib, then I can stand a “little” blood), so Sous Vide is not for me, what is wrong with slowcooking in a crockpot or braizeing? Plus cooking my food wrapped in plastic is kinda sketchy, you buy it wrapped in plastic, bring that home and discard it, rewrap it in plastic to cook it, and then discard that too?

I won’t even cook in aluminum pans anymore because of the theoretical link between aluminum intake and Alzheimers disease that has been made by a few studies. But now it is hip to cook food wrapped in heavy plastic? I just cant see myself doing that.

501 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:20:49pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

My dad will not like that. He’s a big fan of Gulf Oysters.

Me too!

502 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:23:26pm

re: #495 reine.de.tout

These two photos show the area where it’s expected to hit first.

Found this shoreline impact outlook map:

flickr.com

503 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:23:59pm

re: #500 ausador
There’s no evidence that aluminum exposure leads to Alzheimers’. The story got out there due to the fact that the placque bundles found at autopsy seem to be a repository for the body’s natural aluminum stores, but there hasn’t been a positive correlation at all with exposure.

504 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:11pm

re: #498 tradewind

I haven’t seen any oil executives try to ’ play down ’ the effect of spills.
They usually get on the air pretty quickly with their plans to help clean them up.
I have seen it work the other way, though. I can remember statements by eco groups that Alaska was never, ever going to recover from the Valdez spill, and Prince William Sound was as good as dead. Not so much.
While there are still some effects, the recovery has been amazing.
(I’ve stayed far away from any site that might be construed as anti-environmental).
[Link: oceanservice.noaa.gov…]

I hear your point, but those effects were hardly minimal and there was a massive clean up. Also it is much less awful than this incident. What of the spill off of Spain a few years back? That was one of the most productive fisheries in the world. Not so much anymore.

If people really understood the cumulative effects on the seas of oil spills, that alone would get us to reconsider where we get our energy from.

505 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:20pm

re: #467 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, I never earned dolphins. I was involved as a civilian.

As were the civilians on board the Thresher. They may have volunteered or have been assigned. Regardless, they lost their live and left Loved One behind. We all owe them a debt.

506 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:26pm

Valdez Spill Affected Areas
Image: exxon-valdez-spill-map.jpg

507 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:28pm

re: #498 tradewind

I haven’t seen any oil executives try to ’ play down ’ the effect of spills.
They usually get on the air pretty quickly with their plans to help clean them up.
I have seen it work the other way, though. I can remember statements by eco groups that Alaska was never, ever going to recover from the Valdez spill, and Prince William Sound was as good as dead. Not so much.
While there are still some effects, the recovery has been amazing.
(I’ve stayed far away from any site that might be construed as anti-environmental).
[Link: oceanservice.noaa.gov…]

When they do the burns of the patches of oil, they do it in isolated areas so the air pollution that hits land is minimal. What’s left when it’s finished burning are gooey tarballs that can be scooped up and disposed of.

What you see when this stuff hits beaches is that eventually it becomes the same sort of gooey sticky tarball-type mess that can be cleaned up.

It’s ugly and icky and messy and time-consuming, but it doesn’t sink in and poison the water or the earth permanently, the way some other things might do.

Until then, though - birds and wildlife that get oil on them can’t get it off of themselves, and their ability to fly, sit on water (birds), etc, is greatly compromised, and many will die.

508 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:43pm

Crist goes I — hope he kicks some Rubio ass at the voting booth come November.

us.cnn.com

509 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:24:54pm

re: #492 Dark_Falcon

Fox News has serious problems, but its a mistake to single them out too much.


Why? Sure, most networks get bit by stories that don’t pan out but FOX runs these wild conspiracies all the time. Dan Rather didn’t get on the air and claim there was a 100 year old secret plot to destroy the country. Fox is where conservatives get their alternate reality. It’s poisoning the Republican party. It’s a serious problem.

510 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:25:06pm

re: #502 Gus 802

Found this shoreline impact outlook map:

[Link: www.flickr.com…]

Ugh.
Doesn’t look good.

511 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:26:35pm

re: #498 tradewind

I haven’t seen any oil executives try to ’ play down ’ the effect of spills.
They usually get on the air pretty quickly with their plans to help clean them up.
I have seen it work the other way, though. I can remember statements by eco groups that Alaska was never, ever going to recover from the Valdez spill, and Prince William Sound was as good as dead. Not so much.
While there are still some effects, the recovery has been amazing.
(I’ve stayed far away from any site that might be construed as anti-environmental).
[Link: oceanservice.noaa.gov…]

Actually they did try to play down the govt report that the leak is worse than reported the past two days, and now they’ve backpeddaled and agreed and are asking for the Military help originally profferred. Not happy with BP on this one.

512 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:26:55pm

BBL

513 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:29:35pm

re: #499 LudwigVanQuixote

Hi Ludwig! I’m off all day Monday waiting for 3 moving companies to quote my Company to move me by OU…
60 days bro..My world changes again..I won’t make it to Singapore till end of 2011 dang it! I can’t wait to make it back home in Napa someday..
Be well

514 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:29:43pm

re: #492 Dark_Falcon

I was making a more general point that invalidated Beck without singling out Fox News. Other news organizations (such as the New York Times) have sometimes stood behind bad stories as well. Fox News has serious problems, but its a mistake to single them out too much.

DF there is no reason to be nice to a divorced from reality propaganda machine. It is not as if news organizations don’t have biases or that news organizations always get the facts straight and are therefore blameless. The issue is that Fox is not a news organization and has not been for some time. They do not deserve to be lumped in the same category at all.

The fabricate rumors and push the rumors they create as facts. They are consistently anti-truth.

While I was pleased to see them give Israel a fair shake for some time, they end up hurting Israel more than helping because everyone knows that Fox is just a propaganda shill for the whacked out and stupid.

No there should be someone somehow who frankly shuts them down for all the lies they intentionally tell.

515 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:30:16pm

re: #513 HoosierHoops

Hi Ludwig! I’m off all day Monday waiting for 3 moving companies to quote my Company to move me by OU…
60 days bro..My world changes again..I won’t make it to Singapore till end of 2011 dang it! I can’t wait to make it back home in Napa someday..
Be well


You too my friend! And congrats! I am thrilled for your adventure!

516 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:30:35pm

re: #505 Bubblehead II

As were the civilians on board the Thresher. They may have volunteered or have been assigned. Regardless, they lost their live and left Loved One behind. We all owe them a debt.

Agreed. This is the vid I use when a tribute to the honored fallen is called for:

Youtube Video

517 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:32:02pm

re: #508 Thanos

Crist goes I — hope he kicks some Rubio ass at the voting booth come November.

[Link: us.cnn.com…]

Actually, I’m David Frum. It’s unlikely I’ll have money to contribute to the race in Florida, but if I do, it will go to Rubio.

518 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:33:52pm

re: #497 HoosierHoops

So I don’t rock the boat. I try to stay in the background, but if you you do a search, you will find that I generally show up on the LNDT.

519 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:34:25pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I’m David Frum. It’s unlikely I’ll have money to contribute to the race in Florida, but if I do, it will go to Rubio.

Really?

520 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:34:54pm

I’m trying to find a charitable way of understanding any explanation for 450 ton blowout preventers that fail to prevent a blowout. Such a device needing external robotic activation implies many failures of multiple redundancy that one would rationally expect of a device of such monumental importance. I’ll be very interested in how this catastrophic bit of horribleness gets explained, and how we make sure on a technical level that it never happens again.

As I’ve mentioned before I live near St. Babs and can see oil platforms from my window out in the channel, including the infamous Platform A. I like the platforms, I think they look beautiful at night and agree with the need for more domestic exploration while we transition away from fossil fuels for energy production. But the blowout at Platform A and the Exxon Valdez catastrophe play a big part in why any expansion of offshore oil drilling is politically no longer feasible anywhere on this coast. Now a huge part of the Gulf faces a real threat to its fisheries, coasts, ecosystems and air quality.

521 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:34:58pm

re: #509 Killgore Trout
During the presidential campaign, an independent group monitored the ratio of positive to negative (slanted for and against Obama and McCain ) stories and sound bytes run by the Big Three networks, plus Fox, and Fox was found to have provided the most equally balanced coverage of any of them.

So the broadcast networks gave good marks to one candidate and bad marks to another, while Fox was tough on both—and most balanced overall.


forbes.com

522 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:36:11pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I’m David Frum. It’s unlikely I’ll have money to contribute to the race in Florida, but if I do, it will go to Rubio.

Mine will go to Crist, and I have some.

523 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:36:36pm

re: #519 JasonA

Really?

Yes, really. I’m not going to give money to an independent when a Republican has a chance to win the seat. I think Crist should take his primary loss and accept it.

524 bagua  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:37:36pm

re: #510 reine.de.tout

Ugh.
Doesn’t look good.

It is depressing. I don’t understand how this could occur with current technology.

525 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:37:40pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I’m with David Frum. It’s unlikely I’ll have money to contribute to the race in Florida, but if I do, it will go to Rubio.

FTFY?
:)

526 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:37:50pm

re: #523 Dark_Falcon

Yes, really. I’m not going to give money to an independent when a Republican has a chance to win the seat. I think Crist should take his primary loss and accept it.

Why would you vote for a creationist anti-science nut job?

527 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:38:56pm

re: #521 tradewind

During the presidential campaign, an independent group monitored the ratio of positive to negative (slanted for and against Obama and McCain ) stories and sound bytes run by the Big Three networks, plus Fox, and Fox was found to have provided the most equally balanced coverage of any of them.


[Link: www.forbes.com…]

There’s a big difference between media bias and whacked out crazy conspiracy theories.

528 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:39:16pm

re: #515 LudwigVanQuixote

You too my friend! And congrats! I am thrilled for your adventure!

Next time I’m home in Napa I’d love you and your GF to visit..
It’s my home turf and I’d get you a B&B stay for a shit price..:)
Locals know people… Mud bath in Calistoga? What? The hoopster is home for a week..*wink*

529 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:39:32pm

Do you think the RNC and DNC would appreciate it if I mailed them Monopoly money?

530 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:40:23pm

re: #523 Dark_Falcon

Rubio’s not a Republican either, he’s a theocrat, just like the crew we’ve had in office prior to Obama. IF we haven’t learned anything but one thing it should be that we shouldn’t trust theocrats with the pocketbook.

Look at Cunningham, Abramoff, and the rest of that stinky C st crew if you don’t believe me. IF you vote for Rubio, you’re voting for more of the same. Time to finish the lawn now that I’ve eaten, back later.

531 ausador  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:40:27pm

re: #503 tradewind

There’s no evidence that aluminum exposure leads to Alzheimers’. The story got out there due to the fact that the placque bundles found at autopsy seem to be a repository for the body’s natural aluminum stores, but there hasn’t been a positive correlation at all with exposure.

You mean I can start useing antiperspirant containing aluminum zirconium tetrachlorohydrex again without fear of becoming senile? That is good news, maybe my relatives will stop complaining about how badly I smell between showers now. :p

/da-dum-tish!

532 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:40:30pm

re: #522 Thanos
Maybe Rahm isn’t the first person you turn to for help when you switch…
Chalk up another Underbus.
theatlantic.com

533 bratwurst  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:41:14pm

re: #523 Dark_Falcon

Yes, really. I’m not going to give money to an independent when a Republican has a chance to win the seat. I think Crist should take his primary loss and accept it.

I respect the fact that you have no problem identifying yourself as a Republican. I cannot be the only one who has noticed than several of the most partisan right-of-center lizards go to great pains to point out that they are not Republicans.

534 Bubblehead II  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:41:29pm

re: #516 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. This is the vid I use when a tribute to the honored fallen is called for:


[Video]

10 to the 100th power upding.

535 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:42:40pm

re: #527 Killgore Trout
True dat.
And Fox is definitely the only network that would ever, ever report a whacked out conspiracy….//
If you really look hard, you will see that often they are just first. The other three drag along a month or so later, when the evidence comes dribbling in.

536 ShaunP  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:42:53pm

re: #521 tradewind

During the presidential campaign, an independent group monitored the ratio of positive to negative (slanted for and against Obama and McCain ) stories and sound bytes run by the Big Three networks, plus Fox, and Fox was found to have provided the most equally balanced coverage of any of them.


[Link: www.forbes.com…]

Wonder when they started taking score. Before McCain won the primary, Fox was decidedly anti-maverick…

537 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:43:02pm

re: #518 Bubblehead II

So I don’t rock the boat. I try to stay in the background, but if you you do a search, you will find that I generally show up on the LNDT.


Nice meeting you..To tell the truth..I’ve never posted a link here in the linky thing or ever done a search on anyone…
/Charles: Damn..He never has!
Be well

538 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:43:19pm

re: #532 tradewind

Maybe Rahm isn’t the first person you turn to for help when you switch…
Chalk up another Underbus.
[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

You know what? Either way its a win because a SOCON Schiavo pimping theocrat flake who can’t be trusted with a credit card won’t be in office. I like the odds.

539 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:44:04pm

re: #520 goddamnedfrank

I’m trying to find a charitable way of understanding any explanation for 450 ton blowout preventers that fail to prevent a blowout. Such a device needing external robotic activation implies many failures of multiple redundancy that one would rationally expect of a device of such monumental importance. I’ll be very interested in how this catastrophic bit of horribleness gets explained, and how we make sure on a technical level that it never happens again.

As I’ve mentioned before I live near St. Babs and can see oil platforms from my window out in the channel, including the infamous Platform A. I like the platforms, I think they look beautiful at night and agree with the need for more domestic exploration while we transition away from fossil fuels for energy production. But the blowout at Platform A and the Exxon Valdez catastrophe play a big part in why any expansion of offshore oil drilling is politically no longer feasible anywhere on this coast. Now a huge part of the Gulf faces a real threat to its fisheries, coasts, ecosystems and air quality.

Or for less money than new rigs, we could build several nuclear plants and skip that step altogether. As to the monumental fail, this is the one place where the GOP mantra of deregulating and generally dismissing environmental regulations as bad things done by “tree huggers” who get in the way of industry shows itself to be agonizingly stupid and short sighted. Whomever was doing the regulation was asleep. They were put to sleep by political pressures to keep them asleep.

That is also why when I talk nuclear, I also talk about running nuclear plants the way the Navy does it. First off it is possible with current technology to greatly “idiot proof” a reactor. Second off, the Navy is one place where there is no f’g around with reactor safety. Rather than taking the view that if they kill half their customers, they will simply double fees, the Navy takes the view that if you screw up yu die, your crew mates die, you lose a billion dollar boat and you have a major international incident.

Ohh and the Navy is a government agency that regulates itself rather well.

We need that attitude from the top down and we need it yesterday. We need to get rid of oil consumption and fossil fuel consumption as much as possible and we need it yesterday.

540 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:44:46pm

re: #528 HoosierHoops

Next time I’m home in Napa I’d love you and your GF to visit..
It’s my home turf and I’d get you a B&B stay for a shit price..:)
Locals know people… Mud bath in Calistoga? What? The hoopster is home for a week..*wink*

If you make it to the DC area, we will feed you. We both are excellent cooks!

541 lostlakehiker  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:45:51pm

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously? I think that sweetheart deals for politicians are both unpleasant and a fact of life. Since I know basically nothing about what Al Gore chooses to invest in, I really can’t assess it very well.

I do think that there are a lot of people making dubious money in the world who don’t seem to fascinate so. If I knew this to be true? Al Gore would still be one of the people I think about least. So I’m not sure why you care what I would think about Al Gore if some hypothetical charges were true. I am not an Al Gore fan, or an Al Gore hater. I have almost no strong feelings about Al Gore.

Now, Congress is making appropriations and paying people in Finland to develop an electric car? Can you link me some information about this? How do you make money developing an electric car if there’s no electric car? And why aren’t we paying Americans to produce an electric car if we want one?

Search terms Al Gore electric car finland

Wall Street Journal Reports

WASHINGTON — A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000.

The award this week to California startup Fisker Automotive Inc. follows a $465 million government loan to Tesla Motors Inc., purveyors of a $109,000 British-built electric Roadster. Tesla is a California startup focusing on all-electric vehicles, with a number of celebrity endorsements that is backed by investors that have contributed to Democratic campaigns.

The awards to Fisker and Tesla have prompted concern from companies that have had their bids for loans rejected, and criticism from groups that question why vehicles aimed at the wealthiest customers are getting loans subsidized by taxpayers.

“This is not for average Americans,” said Leslie Paige, a spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, an anti-tax group in Washington. “This is for people to put something in their driveway that is a conversation piece. It’s status symbol thing.”


My take on things is that Tesla is the real deal, but you should take this with a grain of salt because I have a conflict of interest. At any rate, it’s a fact that Tesla motors builds its vehicles not in Finland but in the U.S.

The article goes on to assert, in Sept 2009, that production is slated to begin in December with mass production hitting U.S. markets this June. I’ve heard nothing further about this mass production and don’t expect to, and in any case the product that’s been designed is a luxury vehicle. The article also reports that the projected family sedan has yet to be designed.

542 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:45:59pm

re: #532 tradewind

Maybe Rahm isn’t the first person you turn to for help when you switch…
Chalk up another Underbus.
[Link: www.theatlantic.com…]

Well, there will be a dem in the race. Should they bail on him?

Charlie Crist, soon to be independent Senate candidate from Florida, tried to reach White House chief of staff Emanuel through intermediates. WH refuses to take the call. Dems plan big talent/money blitz for Kendrick Meek.

Makes perfect sense, and doesn’t appear to be an “Underbus”

543 dog philosopher  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:46:07pm

re: rubio/crist

i’m interested to see how the tea party/moderate split comes out in terms of actual votes

if the florida democratic party endorsed crist instead of meek, it seems crist might beat rubio, eh?

544 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:46:11pm

re: #526 LudwigVanQuixote

Not vote, but give money to.

Ew.

545 ryannon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:46:25pm

re: #539 LudwigVanQuixote

Alas, I don’t see that kind of rigor. I see Homer Simpson.

546 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:47:06pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I’m David Frum. It’s unlikely I’ll have money to contribute to the race in Florida, but if I do, it will go to Rubio.

Dark Falcon… David Frum… never seen in the same place at the same time…

Busted.

547 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:47:08pm

re: #545 ryannon

Alas, I don’t see that kind of rigor. I see Homer Simpson.

That is a major part of the problem.

548 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:47:12pm

What the Fuck Should I Have for Dinner?

549 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:47:14pm

Uh oh. The well is still leaking. It’s not 5,000 gallons per day. It’s leaking 5,000 barrels/day or 200,000 gallons/day.

USCG found the new leak yesterday.

More here:

Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez

An oil spill that threatened to eclipse even the Exxon Valdez disaster spread out of control and drifted inexorably toward the Gulf Coast on Thursday as fishermen rushed to scoop up shrimp and crews spread floating barriers around marshes.
An oil spill that threatened to eclipse even the Exxon Valdez disaster spread out of control and drifted inexorably toward the Gulf Coast on Thursday as fishermen rushed to scoop up shrimp and crews spread floating barriers around marshes.

The spill was both bigger and closer than imagined - five times larger than first estimated, with the leading edge just three miles from the Louisiana shore. Authorities said it could reach the Mississippi River delta by Thursday night.

“It is of grave concern,” David Kennedy of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, told The Associated Press. “I am frightened. This is a very, very big thing. And the efforts that are going to be required to do anything about it, especially if it continues on, are just mind-boggling.”

CONTINUES

550 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:47:54pm

re: #536 ShaunP
The point of the story was that the group found that Fox was hard on both candidates, Obama and McCain as well. What tipped the balance was the fact…. the fact, not the opinion, that the other three networks reserved their negative stories for McCain , and their positive ones for Obama.

551 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:48:12pm

re: #535 tradewind

True dat.
And Fox is definitely the only network that would ever, ever report a whacked out conspiracy…//
If you really look hard, you will see that often they are just first. The other three drag along a month or so later, when the evidence comes dribbling in.

Ah, ok. I take it you believe the things you get from Fox. Nobody else is reporting that shit. It’s embarrassing nonsense.

552 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:48:58pm

re: #542 Stanley Sea
Crist was trying to see if he could find a way to get the WH to stay out of it and jettison Meek.
You’d think a guy who passed the FL bar in only four (4!) tries would be smarter.

553 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:06pm

re: #548 Killgore Trout

What the Fuck Should I Have for Dinner?

The site’s getting slammed right now but try refresh a few times.

554 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:11pm

re: #549 Gus 802

The Valdez spilled a considerably more amount of oil. The leaking well would have to not be capped and just let to leak for quite some time to catch up with the Valdez.

555 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:24pm

re: #550 tradewind

The point of the story was that the group found that Fox was hard on both candidates, Obama and McCain as well. What tipped the balance was the fact… the fact, not the opinion, that the other three networks reserved their negative stories for McCain , and their positive ones for Obama.

This is crap.

556 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:39pm

re: #553 Killgore Trout

The site’s getting slammed right now but try refresh a few times.

Lol

You broke the fucking internet, hit refresh.


:D

557 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:55pm

re: #554 freetoken

The Valdez spilled a considerably more amount of oil. The leaking well would have to not be capped and just let to leak for quite some time to catch up with the Valdez.

Really, it seems to be getting there pretty well on its own.

558 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:49:56pm

re: #551 Killgore Trout
I take everything I hear on all broadcast networks, including Fox, with a grain of skepticism, because they so often have to pull back.

559 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:50:20pm

re: #555 LudwigVanQuixote
Actually, it’s quantifiable.

560 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:50:42pm

re: #546 Renaissance_Man

Dark Falcon… David Frum… never seen in the same place at the same time…

Busted.

Actually, it was a simple error. I wish I was David Frum.

561 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:51:11pm

re: #535 tradewind

True dat.
And Fox is definitely the only network that would ever, ever report a whacked out conspiracy…//
If you really look hard, you will see that often they are just first. The other three drag along a month or so later, when the evidence comes dribbling in.

FOX is first with whacked out conspiracies because they make them up. They create stories out of whole cloth, then accuse the other networks of ‘media bias’ when they don’t present FOX’s made up stories as ‘one side of the story’.

Disappointingly, the other networks are so cowed by this ridiculous tactic than they then oblige. CNN is the worst offender, but all of them indulge a little.

562 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:51:29pm

re: #528 HoosierHoops

Mud wrestling?
Just a thought!

563 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:51:33pm

re: #560 Dark_Falcon

I wish I was David Frum.

Nothing against the guy, but I never thought I’d ever hear those words put together in a sentence like that.

564 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:52:31pm

re: #549 Gus 802

Uh oh. The well is still leaking. It’s not 5,000 gallons per day. It’s leaking 5,000 barrels/day or 200,000 gallons/day.

USCG found the new leak yesterday.

More here:

Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez

Yeah. One thing is sure about Marco Rubio: This will get him to stop saying “drill here, drill now”. That line is likely going to be replaced by: “No new drilling until we figure out how this happened and how it should be prevented going forwards”.

565 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:52:37pm

re: #559 tradewind

Actually, it’s quantifiable.

Yeah, by Fox…

566 Bagua  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:53:08pm

re: #520 goddamnedfrank

I’m trying to find a charitable way of understanding any explanation for 450 ton blowout preventers that fail to prevent a blowout. Such a device needing external robotic activation implies many failures of multiple redundancy that one would rationally expect of a device of such monumental importance. I’ll be very interested in how this catastrophic bit of horribleness gets explained, and how we make sure on a technical level that it never happens again.

As I’ve mentioned before I live near St. Babs and can see oil platforms from my window out in the channel, including the infamous Platform A. I like the platforms, I think they look beautiful at night and agree with the need for more domestic exploration while we transition away from fossil fuels for energy production. But the blowout at Platform A and the Exxon Valdez catastrophe play a big part in why any expansion of offshore oil drilling is politically no longer feasible anywhere on this coast. Now a huge part of the Gulf faces a real threat to its fisheries, coasts, ecosystems and air quality.

Well said, and there’s the problem, we were “sure on a technical level” that this could not happen, yet it did. How can we trust our future sureties?

Quite right also that this will put the kibosh on expanding US offshore drilling.

567 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:53:18pm

re: #563 JasonA

Nothing against the guy, but I never thought I’d ever hear those words put together in a sentence like that.

He’s got more money and success than I do. I’d also like to have gotten to know George W. Bush like he was able to.

568 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:53:23pm

re: #553 Killgore Trout

The site’s getting slammed right now but try refresh a few times.

“You broke the fucking internet, hit refresh”

569 Just never mind.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:53:37pm

re: #548 Killgore Trout

What the Fuck Should I Have for Dinner?

WTF are you having for dinner?
Do you follow the site’s directions?
Too funny.

570 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:54:08pm

re: #554 freetoken

The Valdez spilled a considerably more amount of oil. The leaking well would have to not be capped and just let to leak for quite some time to catch up with the Valdez.

I don’t know the validity of this excerpt from the article:

At that rate, the spill could easily eclipse the worst oil spill in U.S. history - the 11 million gallons that leaked from the grounded tanker Exxon Valdez in Alaska’s Prince William Sound in 1989 - in the three months it could take to drill a relief well and plug the gushing well 5,000 feet underwater on the sea floor.

If it takes them three months then there’s going to be much more serious problem.

571 ShaunP  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:54:21pm

re: #550 tradewind

The point of the story was that the group found that Fox was hard on both candidates, Obama and McCain as well. What tipped the balance was the fact… the fact, not the opinion, that the other three networks reserved their negative stories for McCain , and their positive ones for Obama.

Right. My point is that IMHO, the results of a study like this would depend on whether you started keeping score in December 2007 or July 2008…

572 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:54:34pm

re: #567 Dark_Falcon

He’s got more money and success than I do. I’d also like to have gotten to know George W. Bush like he was able to.

I’ve met W. Trust me, it was not a profound experience.

573 HoosierHoops  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:54:47pm

re: #540 LudwigVanQuixote

If you make it to the DC area, we will feed you. We both are excellent cooks!

you rock…
BTW Lizards..My Dad called me today to tell me he made his first hole in one..
He was so excited you could feel him shaking in excitement telling me about it..
Some city course in Alameda (Bay farm Island?) I forget …Dang him!

574 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:56:15pm

OK guys, gots to go for a while! BE well and stay scaly.
Hoops enjoy your adventures!

AND BTW c is a constant!

575 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:57:02pm

re: #570 Gus 802

I’m expecting it to be addressed before then, probably my makeshift methods (e.g., bubble caps) until a more permanent solution can be found.

576 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:57:09pm

re: #570 Gus 802

If it takes them three months then there’s going to be much more serious problem.

Also here:

NOAA Assessment of Deepwater Horizon Incident, Gulf of Mexico

Workers finished fabricating the containment chamber portion of the collection dome that will be deployed to the sea floor to collect oil as it escapes from the well. Work will now begin on the piping system that brings the oil to the surface for collection; this method has never been tried at this depth before. The first rig to be used for drilling a relief or cut-off well is on site and should begin drilling approximately ½ a mile from the well head on Friday. The relief well will not be complete for several months. Responders are still figuring out new ways to use Remotely Operated Vehicles (ROVs) to try to trigger the blowout preventer (BOP), a series of valves that sits at the well head. These efforts will continue concurrent with the collection dome and relief well(s). Good weather today allowed for both skimming operations and aggressive aerial application of dispersants - over 50,000 gallons of dispersant have been applied to the surface oil in the last two days. Patches of surface oil were captured with fire-retardant boom and ignited (in situ burn).

So we have again several month including a procedure that has never been attempted at this depth before.

577 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:57:26pm

re: #561 Renaissance_Man
The networks were dragged to report on the Reverend Wright rhetoric.
Dragged to report anything relating to ACORN.
Dragged to report anything questionable re Chris Dodd’s financial dealings.
Dragged to report the problems with Obama nominees.

Dragged to report on the Massa coverup .
Etc. etc,. ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
The reason the WH went on the rampage against Fox is simple…. it exposes stories that the networks would just as soon ignore, and forces them to report as news, albeit reluctantly, and late.
And true, they get stuff wrong.
So do the other three.

578 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:58:01pm

re: #565 LudwigVanQuixote
It was done by the CPMA, not Fox.
Unless I suppose you consider the report in Forbes to be from a wingnut site….//

579 tradewind  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:58:50pm

Outie.

580 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 4:58:57pm

re: #575 freetoken

I’m expecting it to be addressed before then, probably my makeshift methods (e.g., bubble caps) until a more permanent solution can be found.

Time will tell. So far this event has grown rapidly over the past week.

581 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:00:21pm

re: #576 Gus 802

So we have again several month including a procedure that has never been attempted at this depth before.

Then forget any Gulf sea food this year. This will be a horror if the blowout prevention system can’t be triggered.

582 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:00:42pm

re: #576 Gus 802

So we have again several month including a procedure that has never been attempted at this depth before.

Best bet now would be for the formation to collapse on itself and seal it off naturally. I’m not holding my breath.

583 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:01:10pm

Looks like The Sarah is going to work (i.e., make endorsements) for her $12 million/year:

Palin wades into Minn. governor’s race

Sarah Palin is wading into Minnesota’s governor’s race to throw her support to a “straight talking hockey dad” locked in a tight race to be the Republicans’ favored candidate in November.

Palin posted her support for state Rep. Tom Emmer on her Facebook page Thursday.

[…]

Palin described Emmer as a “patriotic fiscally conservative” candidate.


Gaahh… everytime I see one of theses loons use “patriot” I know we’re in for some extremism… and behold:

Republicans push for Minnesota sovereignty

Senate Republicans introduced a constitutional amendment Wednesday that would make Minnesota the first state to require a two-thirds majority vote in the legislature to approve federal laws affecting the state. “Minnesotans enjoy inherent, natural, God-given rights,” the bill states, and “Citizens of Minnesota are sovereign individuals, subject to Minnesota law and immune from any federal laws that exceed the federal government’s enumerated constitutional powers.”

The bill was introduced by state Sens. Mike Parry of Waseca, Bill Ingebrigtsen of Alexandria, and David Hann of Eden Prairie, and is a companion to a House bill introduced by Reps. Steve Drazkowski of Mazeppa, Bruce Anderson of Buffalo, and Tom Emmer of Delano last month.

Bet he’s a creationist too…

584 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:01:41pm

re: #582 reine.de.tout

Best bet now would be for the formation to collapse on itself and seal it off naturally. I’m not holding my breath.

Could they use explosives for this?

*I know nothing of the industry*

585 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:02:22pm

re: #581 Dark_Falcon

Then forget any Gulf sea food this year. This will be a horror if the blowout prevention system can’t be triggered.

Right. It has to work. Just a note. That was verbatim from the latest NOAA update which is available here:

response.restoration.noaa.gov,subtopic_id,topic_id&entry_id%28entry_subtopic_topic%29=809&subtopic_id%28entry_subtopic_topic%29=2&topic_id%28entry_subtopic_topic%29=1

586 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:04:58pm

Some jackass keeps speeding down my street…
*Gets spike strip*

587 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:06:04pm

re: #582 reine.de.tout

Best bet now would be for the formation to collapse on itself and seal it off naturally. I’m not holding my breath.

No word on if any of these new attempts have worked. As indicated it would be the first time some of this has been attempted.

588 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:07:25pm

re: #583 freetoken

For better or worse I think we will be seeing more of this state sovereignty business.

589 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:08:18pm

re: #586 Varek Raith

Some jackass keeps speeding down my street…
*Gets spike strip*

Jackasses just step over those things. Install a cattleguard.

590 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:09:21pm

re: #589 wrenchwench

Jackasses just step over those things. Install a cattleguard.

:)
It’s a shame the Feds would frown upon my minefield idea…

591 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:09:22pm
Efforts to use remote-controlled vehicles to engage the blowout preventer, a massive valve designed to cut off oil flow from the well, have been unsuccessful so far. Equipment has been put in place to drill a relief well that could be used to clog the leaking well with concrete, mud, and other materials, but that could take months. Perhaps most promising is a plan to place domes over the leaks to collect the oil and pipe it to the surface for collection, but that could take several weeks to implement, and is a strategy that hasn’t been tested at these depths.

newsweek.com

593 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:14pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

/I think the beef industry did it…

594 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:25pm

re: #577 tradewind

The networks were dragged to report on the Reverend Wright rhetoric.
Dragged to report anything relating to ACORN.
Dragged to report anything questionable re Chris Dodd’s financial dealings.
Dragged to report the problems with Obama nominees.

Dragged to report on the Massa coverup .
Etc. etc,. ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
The reason the WH went on the rampage against Fox is simple… it exposes stories that the networks would just as soon ignore, and forces them to report as news, albeit reluctantly, and late.
And true, they get stuff wrong.
So do the other three.

Given that the ridiculous flap about ACORN seems to have been largely based on some blogosphere whisper campaign that then devolved into a series of fake scandals and videos that were trumpeted all over FOX, then picked up as ‘one side’ by other networks, I’d say that’s a pretty accurate example of exactly what I’m talking about.

I’m not on FOX’s case for making mistakes. Mistakes happen in journalism. I’m not even really on their case for loathsomely bad and biased yellow journalism, even though that is the very least of what they do. I’m on their case for making stories up, and cynically doing it for the very purpose of misinforming their viewers in order to manipulate their emotions. FOX and the Conservative cult media in general are the prime example of getting to have your own facts, rather than your own opinions. They’ve created Red Facts - ‘facts’ that everyone who’s Conservative ‘knows’, and that are immune to argument and reason because any evidence to the contrary is simply part of the ‘biased media’ conspiracy against them. And it is a direct assault on democracy to create such a monstrously underinformed voting populace.

As for the CPMA study, your Forbes link doesn’t have any carryon links to the study in question. Nor does the CPMA site. It only reports ‘results’ from that study. Suspiciously, the same guy who writes that op-ed at Forbes, who is also a FOX contributor, is also a contributor to this CPMA. Of course, the study could be legit, but I’d want to see it, rather than just take his word for it. After reading other examples of ‘independent studies’, such as that one that created the Red Fact about Hummers being better for the environment than Priuses, I want to see any of these ‘studies’ before taking their word for it.

595 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:32pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

Lol. Causing an ecological disaster in the process…
LOGIC FAIL, RUSH!

596 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:10:34pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

Right. Sure, and BP would be silent about that if they even suspected sabotage. What a crock.

597 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:12:32pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

So he’d rather go there than admit there are possible dangers to offshore drilling, huh?

598 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:12:48pm

re: #590 Varek Raith

:)
It’s a shame the Feds would frown upon my minefield idea…

Then you’d have a giant pothole problem. Hmmm, maybe set out a pretty jenny…

599 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:13:19pm

re: #596 Gus 802

Right. Sure, and BP would be silent about that if they even suspected sabotage. What a crock.

well I am not making suggestions as to who or why but anytime something really bad happens you can’t rule out foul play…

600 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:13:21pm

re: #596 Gus 802

Right. Sure, and BP would be silent about that if they even suspected sabotage. What a crock crook.

Fixt.

601 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:14:03pm

re: #583 freetoken

Looks like The Sarah is going to work (i.e., make endorsements) for her $12 million/year:

Palin wades into Minn. governor’s race


Bet he’s a creationist too…

How about this for a Emmer charity event: Sarah Palin mud-wrestles Michelle Bachmann. No matter who wins, they’ll both be performing the only sort of public tasks they are really competant at.

602 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:14:11pm

re: #599 brookly red

well I am not making suggestions as to who or why but anytime something really bad happens you can’t rule out foul play…

Shit happens. Foul enough?
;)

603 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:14:33pm

re: #599 brookly red

What actual reason is there to suspect ‘foul play’ versus an accident?

Any actual reason?

604 bratwurst  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:15:18pm

re: #588 brookly red

For better orworse I think we will be seeing more of this state sovereignty business.

Fixt. I think the Civil War showed why this is a really bad idea.

605 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:15:25pm

re: #603 Obdicut

What actual reason is there to suspect ‘foul play’ versus an accident?

Any actual reason?

It’s politcally convenient?

606 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:15:53pm

re: #597 JasonA

As the NOAA report Gus linked noted, the dome approach they are going to try hasn’t been done at this depth before.

As we drill deeper and deeper, going in very deep water, there will likely be all sorts of issues crop up.

607 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:16:06pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

Even Fox News won’t support that bit of lunacy. Not to mention the fact that neither Greenpeace, nor Sea Shepherds has ever used explosives for anything.

608 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:16:25pm

re: #602 Varek Raith

Shit happens. Foul enough?
;)

hey, look at wildfires… sometimes they are set, no? I tend to think this was an accident but it could be anything from terrorism to a disgruntled employee. we just don’t know.

609 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:16:32pm

re: #435 Gus 802

Fisker Karma…

[Link: apps1.eere.energy.gov…]

Fisker Karma?

OK, I see them, but they seem to be SoCal startup, which is quite a bit saner than the DoE giving money to Finland.

610 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:17:15pm

re: #607 Dark_Falcon

Even Fox News won’t support that bit of lunacy. Not to mention the fact that neither Greenpeace, nor Sea Shepherds has ever used explosives for anything.

Admiral Watson would blow himself up if he had access to explosives…

611 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:17:39pm

re: #603 Obdicut

What actual reason is there to suspect ‘foul play’ versus an accident?

Any actual reason?

I have none…

612 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:17:47pm

re: #599 brookly red

well I am not making suggestions as to who or why but anytime something really bad happens you can’t rule out foul play…

Here:

Drilling Process Attracts Scrutiny in Rig Explosion

In the case of the Deepwater Horizon, workers had finished pumping cement to fill the space between the pipe and the sides of the hole and had begun temporarily plugging the well with cement; it isn’t known whether they had completed the plugging process before the blast.

Regulators have previously identified problems in the cementing process as a leading cause of well blowouts, in which oil and natural gas surge out of a well with explosive force. When cement develops cracks or doesn’t set properly, oil and gas can escape, ultimately flowing out of control. The gas is highly combustible and prone to ignite, as it appears to have done aboard the Deepwater Horizon, which was leased by BP PLC, the British oil giant.

Concerns about the cementing process—and about whether rigs have enough safeguards to prevent blowouts—raise questions about whether the industry can safely drill in deep water and whether regulators are up to the task of monitoring them.

The scrutiny on cementing will focus attention on Halliburton Co., the oilfield-services firm that was handling the cementing process on the rig, which burned and sank last week. The disaster, which killed 11, has left a gusher of oil streaming into the Gulf from a mile under the surface.

No foul play as far as I’m concerned.

613 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:17:56pm

re: #597 JasonA

So he’d rather go there than admit there are possible dangers to offshore drilling, huh?

I hadn’t really considered the political spin before now. Looks like conservatives might decide to downplay the environmental damage if this gets bad.

614 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:19:07pm

Ding ding ding… I think we got a winner:

Tom Emmer, latest awardee of one of The Sarah’s endorsements, being quizzed in the MN legislature:

Youtube Video

615 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:19:34pm

re: #610 Varek Raith

Admiral Watson would blow himself up if he had access to explosives…

No, he wouldn’t use them. I’m not an admirer of Paul Watson, but he has never countenanced the use of lethal weapons for his campaigns.

616 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:19:46pm

re: #583 freetoken

votesmart.org

Wow, he’s a pretty damn polarizing candidate.

617 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:20:14pm

re: #607 Dark_Falcon

Even Fox News won’t support that bit of lunacy. Not to mention the fact that neither Greenpeace, nor Sea Shepherds has ever used explosives for anything.

Is there a reasonable suspicion of terrorism here. Why are there SWAT teams there? The RoP loves to blow stuff up.

618 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:20:46pm

re: #611 brookly red

I have none…

So what sense is there in speculating that it might have been an accident? JFK’s murder could have been an accident by those standards. Maybe Oswald and the thirty-nine other shooters were just trying to hit a Wascally Wabbit.

619 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:20:54pm

re: #614 freetoken

Ding ding ding… I think we got a winner:

Tom Emmer, latest awardee of one of The Sarah’s endorsements, being quizzed in the MN legislature:


[Video]

lol

620 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:21:20pm

re: #617 Killgore Trout

Is there a reasonable suspicion of terrorism here. Why are there SWAT teams there? The RoP loves to blow stuff up.

/and some of them know a thing or two about oil wells…

621 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:21:41pm

re: #617 Killgore Trout

Is there a reasonable suspicion of terrorism here. Why are there SWAT teams there? The RoP loves to blow stuff up.

As you know they’re not really SWAT teams. They’re inspectors. It was, of course, a figure of speech.

622 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:21:47pm

re: #615 Dark_Falcon

No, he wouldn’t use them. I’m not an admirer of Paul Watson, but he has never countenanced the use of lethal weapons for his campaigns.

I don’t like whaling. But I sure as hell don’t like seeing the Steve Irwin ramming other vessels, nor their other illegal tactics. I don’t like the Sea Sheppards.

Though, you’re right, he wouldn’t use explosives. Just a bad joke on my part.
:)

623 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:23:13pm

re: #612 Gus 802

Facts, schmacts. Who needs em when it is more fun to plant doubt seeds?

624 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:23:27pm

re: #618 Obdicut

So what sense is there in speculating that it might have been an accident? JFK’s murder could have been an accident by those standards. Maybe Oswald and the thirty-nine other shooters were just trying to hit a Wascally Wabbit.

at this point it can’t be proved either way so no speculation just a bunch of questions.

625 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:23:28pm

re: #621 Gus 802

As you know they’re not really SWAT teams. They’re inspectors. It was, of course, a figure of speech.

Ah, I didn’t know that.. I should know better that to believe stuff I pick up off wingnut sites.

626 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:23:52pm

re: #614 freetoken

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*Takes deep breath*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

627 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:25:29pm

re: #623 Stanley Sea

Facts, schmacts. Who needs em when it is more fun to plant doubt seeds?

Non-hybrid doubt seeds?

628 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:25:32pm

re: #541 lostlakehiker

My take on things is that Tesla is the real deal, but you should take this with a grain of salt because I have a conflict of interest. At any rate, it’s a fact that Tesla motors builds its vehicles not in Finland but in the U.S.

The article goes on to assert, in Sept 2009, that production is slated to begin in December with mass production hitting U.S. markets this June. I’ve heard nothing further about this mass production and don’t expect to, and in any case the product that’s been designed is a luxury vehicle. The article also reports that the projected family sedan has yet to be designed.

OK, so it is the same group Gus was talking about. All right, this makes more sense than I previously envisioned. I thought they were, you know, in Finland.

I can see being concerned about the propriety of a large grant going to a company invested in by a former U.S. politician. I do not know what the usual procedure is. I know there was considerable anger about Cheney’s ties to Halliburton, for example, but I don’t know what’s considered protocol.

Can you explain to me how this translates into ill-gotten gains for Gore, especially if the product, IYHO, will not hit the market or make much?

629 Stanley Sea  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:26:41pm

re: #627 JasonA

Non-hybrid doubt seeds?

Absolutely! Guaranteed.

630 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:26:58pm

re: #622 Varek Raith

I don’t like whaling. But I sure as hell don’t like seeing the Steve Irwin ramming other vessels, nor their other illegal tactics. I don’t like the Sea Sheppards.

Though, you’re right, he wouldn’t use explosives. Just a bad joke on my part.
:)

Thank you.

631 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:27:01pm

re: #625 Killgore Trout

Ah, I didn’t know that.. I should know better that to believe stuff I pick up off wingnut sites.

Yeah, from the Department of Interior.

Too late now though. The wingnuts will think it’s full on SWAT teams. Even though no stone will be left unturned. The conspiracy will be that they’re hiding something which will only enhance the sabotage conspiracy theorists.

632 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:29:01pm

re: #631 Gus 802

Yeah, from the Department of Interior.

Too late now though. The wingnuts will think it’s full on SWAT teams. Even though no stone will be left unturned. The conspiracy will be that they’re hiding something which will only enhance the sabotage conspiracy theorists.

if this comes down to careless smoking I am gonna be pissed…

633 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:29:19pm

re: #617 Killgore Trout

Is there a reasonable suspicion of terrorism here. Why are there SWAT teams there? The RoP loves to blow stuff up.

An effort like that needs security because the Gulf is a smuggling route. If you put a bunch of hi-tech gear in undefended ships, drug-runners might decided to seize it and sell the oil-related stuff to Hugo Chavez. It’s a theft issue, not a terrorism issue.

634 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:30:59pm

re: #588 brookly red

For better or worse I think we will be seeing more of this state sovereignty business.

Gail Collins commented in her column that apparently some New York state officials are talking about going to Arizona to chain themselves to the border. She thinks that’s OK, because they won’t get much done in Albany anyway.

She also wonders if some Arizona state officials would like to come to New York and throw themselves over Niagara Falls to protests NY’s lack of a budget.

635 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:33:42pm

re: #634 SanFranciscoZionist

Gail Collins commented in her column that apparently some New York state officials are talking about going to Arizona to chain themselves to the border. She thinks that’s OK, because they won’t get much done in Albany anyway.

She also wonders if some Arizona state officials would like to come to New York and throw themselves over Niagara Falls to protests NY’s lack of a budget.

sheesh…

for the record, Arizona Iced Tea is brewed on Long Island… (that dose not mack Long Island Iced Tea though)

636 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:34:04pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

Oh, what the hell! Someone said that was going around earlier, but trust Rush to pick it up.

Any evidence? Or is this along the same lines as me saying that Rush may have hired people to pretend to be evironmentalist whackos and blow up the oil rig? I mean, he MIGHT have. How are we ever to know?

637 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:34:29pm

re: #593 brookly red

/I think the beef industry did it…

I blame Simon Bolivar. He knows why.

638 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:35:24pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, what the hell! Someone said that was going around earlier, but trust Rush to pick it up.

Any evidence? Or is this along the same lines as me saying that Rush may have hired people to pretend to be evironmentalist whackos and blow up the oil rig? I mean, he MIGHT have. How are we ever to know?

/Hey why not blame big oil… they blew up their own rig to cause a shortage & drive prices up.

639 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:36:21pm

re: #595 Varek Raith

Lol. Causing an ecological disaster in the process…
LOGIC FAIL, RUSH!

Yeah. I’ve met some environmental extremists. They might do some batshit bad stuff for the cause, but they would never deliberately get oil on a duck.

640 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:36:50pm

re: #584 Varek Raith

Could they use explosives for this?

*I know nothing of the industry*

ooooh.
I would think it would not be a good idea.

641 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:37:39pm

re: #596 Gus 802

Right. Sure, and BP would be silent about that if they even suspected sabotage. What a crock.

Poor bastards are too scared to come forward!!

642 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:38:03pm

re: #638 brookly red

/Hey why not blame big oil… they blew up their own rig to cause a shortage & drive prices up.

That will be a thread on DU, I suspect. The loons will talk about sabotage, the sane people will get on with the cleanup.

643 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:38:11pm

re: #597 JasonA

So he’d rather go there than admit there are possible dangers to offshore drilling, huh?

Well, you have to admit the timing is PRET-ty convenient.

//

644 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:38:57pm

re: #598 wrenchwench

Then you’d have a giant pothole problem. Hmmm, maybe set out a pretty jenny…

That might distract the jackasses, but what about those guy who keep driving up and down his block!!!??

645 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:39:23pm

re: #642 Dark_Falcon

That will be a thread on DU, I suspect. The loons will talk about sabotage, the sane people will get on with the cleanup.

ugggh! why didn’t I think of this before?

Blame Bush!

646 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:39:28pm

re: #592 Killgore Trout

Troof!
Rush’s conspiracy theory: “Environmentalist whackos” may have blown up oil rig to “head off more oil drilling”

Good grief!
With the loss of life that occurred in this thing, as well as the ongoing environmental damage - he can’t possibly really believe that. Unbelievable.

647 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:39:52pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, what the hell! Someone said that was going around earlier, but trust Rush to pick it up.

Any evidence? Or is this along the same lines as me saying that Rush may have hired people to pretend to be evironmentalist whackos and blow up the oil rig? I mean, he MIGHT have. How are we ever to know?

Is he broadcasting from Costa Rica now?

648 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:42:12pm

re: #646 reine.de.tout

Good grief!
With the loss of life that occurred in this thing, as well as the ongoing environmental damage - he can’t possibly really believe that. Unbelievable.

it was sarcasm…

649 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:42:52pm

re: #599 brookly red

well I am not making suggestions as to who or why but anytime something really bad happens you can’t rule out foul play…

So if I say that Robert Krentz might have been murdered by a neo-Nazi group to further the Arizona immigration law, that would be a reasonable thing for me to suggest on the air?

Actually, it would be more reasonable than what Rush said. Neo-Nazi groups actually have killed people in the past. To the best of my knowledge, no evironmental whackos have ever blown up an oil rig. I could be wrong.

It’s just so Rush. He rewrites reality to fit his whim.

650 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:44:11pm

re: #605 JasonA

It’s politcally convenient?

I’m not even sure you can describe what Rush does as politics anymore. It’s just random trash-talking about people he doesn’t like.

651 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:44:20pm

re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist

Poor bastards are too scared to come forward!!

Yes! Silence is an indication of guilt! They’re in cahoot with the greens to raise oil prices!

/

Of course I already indicated the most likely cause upstream. So far all eyes are on Cameron International (and Haliburton):

04/29/2010 - Oilfield equipment maker Cameron International Corp’s (NYSE: CAM) shares slid earlier Thursday stemming from liability issues regarding the Transocean Ltd. (NYSE: RIG) rig that burned and sank in the Gulf of Mexico last week.

Cameron International provided the blowout preventers for the Transocean rig.

Haliburton story here.

It would be business suicide to be silent about anything approaching sabotage. The operators of the rig also have an interest with their suppliers and contractor and that includes Cameron International and Haliburton. It was an accident.

652 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:44:35pm

re: #649 SanFranciscoZionist

So if I say that Robert Krentz might have been murdered by a neo-Nazi group to further the Arizona immigration law, that would be a reasonable thing for me to suggest on the air?

Actually, it would be more reasonable than what Rush said. Neo-Nazi groups actually have killed people in the past. To the best of my knowledge, no evironmental whackos have ever blown up an oil rig. I could be wrong.

It’s just so Rush. He rewrites reality to fit his whim.

it was sarcasm designed to get a rise out of people & it’s seems to have worked.

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:44:52pm

re: #607 Dark_Falcon

Even Fox News won’t support that bit of lunacy. Not to mention the fact that neither Greenpeace, nor Sea Shepherds has ever used explosives for anything.

Dumpster Muffin might have rented a fishing boat….


////

654 brookly red  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:46:17pm

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

Dumpster Muffin might have rented a fishing boat…

///

well let’s see if AQ or someone takes credit for it…

655 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:46:18pm

re: #613 Killgore Trout

I hadn’t really considered the political spin before now. Looks like conservatives might decide to downplay the environmental damage if this gets bad.

It’s always an issue. There’s nothing like the sight of a deadly fire, followed by months of crying marine mammals to make people not like an idea.

656 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:47:29pm

re: #618 Obdicut

So what sense is there in speculating that it might have been an accident? JFK’s murder could have been an accident by those standards. Maybe Oswald and the thirty-nine other shooters were just trying to hit a Wascally Wabbit.

(Dude. Thirty-seven. No one’s supposed to know about XXXXX XXXXX and XXXX XXXX XXXXXXX.)

657 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:48:31pm

re: #624 brookly red

at this point it can’t be proved either way so no speculation just a bunch of questions.

I assume they’ll put out a statement once the initial investigation is done.

658 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:50:33pm

re: #638 brookly red

/Hey why not blame big oil… they blew up their own rig to cause a shortage & drive prices up.

This is a bit of a PR disaster for them…

659 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:51:46pm

re: #647 JasonA

Is he broadcasting from Costa Rica now?

As far as I know, he never actually promised to move, although he did say he’d be going down there for medical care.

Ah, well. A good customer for some lucky Costa Rican doctor.

660 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:53:38pm

re: #651 Gus 802

Haliburton story here.

It would be business suicide to be silent about anything approaching sabotage. The operators of the rig also have an interest with their suppliers and contractor and that includes Cameron International and Haliburton. It was an accident.

Well, if Haliburton was involved, let’s see if Dick Cheney can use his Sith Powers to stop the leak.

//

661 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:53:40pm

re: #652 brookly red

it was sarcasm designed to get a rise out of people & it’s seems to have worked.

Sorry, but it’s not sarcasm. It’s cold-blooded lying bullshit. Sarcasm, properly done, proves some point other than ‘Rush Limbaugh is an asshole’.

And NO ONE here, left or right, would buy that excuse from a lefty radio figure who used the example I did above.

662 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:54:14pm

re: #654 brookly red

well let’s see if AQ or someone takes credit for it…

“First the IRA claimed responsibility, then the PLO, and then the British Gas and Electric Board.”

663 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:54:39pm

re: #660 Dark_Falcon

Well, if Haliburton was involved, let’s see if Dick Cheney can use his Sith Powers to stop the leak.

//



Cheney was a Jedi.
STOP DISSING US!11!!!

664 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:55:43pm

re: #663 Varek Raith


Cheney wa is a Jedi.
STOP DISSING US!11!!!


Failedy fail fail!

665 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 5:57:52pm

re: #660 Dark_Falcon

Well, if Haliburton was involved, let’s see if Dick Cheney can use his Sith Powers to stop the leak.

//

Yeah. I was a little reluctant to bring up the Haliburton connection. No indictment of Haliburton implied by me in this matter. Don’t know their exact business connection with the Transocean.

666 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:06:44pm

re: #663 Varek Raith


Cheney was a Jedi.
STOP DISSING US!11!!!

No, he is likened to Darth Vader. That means he is The Chosen One, sent to bring balance to the Force.

/I’m going to get it for this one.

667 Uncle Obdicut  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 6:22:22pm

re: #666 Dark_Falcon

That was comment 666.

668 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:43:04pm

re: #652 brookly red

it was sarcasm designed to get a rise out of people & it’s seems to have worked.

Dude that meme gets so old I will wager that even you have a tough time saying it with a straight face.

669 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:45:21pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, what the hell! Someone said that was going around earlier, but trust Rush to pick it up.

Any evidence? Or is this along the same lines as me saying that Rush may have hired people to pretend to be evironmentalist whackos and blow up the oil rig? I mean, he MIGHT have. How are we ever to know?

Or he might just be shooting off whatever hateful thing goes through his feverish imagination since he has learned that he can say whatever he wants be it an outrageous lie or terrible racist slur and get away with it. Well there were some consequences - no football team for the sausage man.


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