Some More News: Hawaii, National Parks, and the Perils of Overtourism

Environment • Views: 17,464

Hi. In today’s episode, we look at how an influx of tourists often has a negative impact on a location’s environment, infrastructure, and residents.

Executive Producer - Katy Stoll
Hosted by Cody Johnston
Directed by Will Gordh
Written by Marco Siler-Gonzales
Edited by Gregg Meller
Produced by Jonathan Harris
Associate Producer - Quincy Tucker
Post-Production Supervisor - John Conway
Researcher - Marco Siler-Gonzales
Graphics by Clint DeNisco
Head Writer - David Christopher Bell

Sources: docs.google.com

Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
02:15 - Tourism Rarely Benefits Locals
09:01 - Our Overrun National Parks
17:57 - A Brief History Of Screwing Over Hawaii
26:24 - Overtourism Can Harm Beautiful Locations
29:35 - Orphanage Tourism
35:12 - Can We Prevent The Most Damaging Aspects Of Tourism?

Jump to bottom

216 comments
1
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:32:09am

Overtourism is everywhere.

2
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:32:33am

And there it is. Russia has just declared open season on shipping in the Black Sea, including - it would seem - ships carrying grain.

3
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:36:25am

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

And there it is. Russia has just declared open season on shipping in the Black Sea, including - it would seem - ships carrying grain.

[Embedded content]

They’re already bombed the stored grain meant for export.

Kyiv Says 60,000 Tonnes Of Grain Destroyed In Odesa Attack

4
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:39:10am

I know there’s a desire to make money, but we’re at that point where it seems some of these parks needing to be restricting daily visitors to a certain number and sticking to it. I know some places already do that.

It’s not just national parks. Some state parks get insanely crowded too.

5
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:43:22am

Mastodon

6
Dave In Austin  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:44:58am
7
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:45:06am

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

I know there’s a desire to make money, but we’re at that point where it seems some of these parks needing to be restricting daily visitors to a certain number and sticking to it. I know some places already do that.

It’s not just national parks. Some state parks get insanely crowded too.

I’ve been to over 120 national park units around the lower 48. Been to a few a couple of times. Always try to be respectful of the location and protecting the environment (pack in/pack out). We try to spend in nearby communities and enjoy the ride.

National parks like Yellowstone, Yosemite, Zion, Arches, Arcadia, and a few others are already limiting access to some or all of the parks. Arcadia limits access to Cadillac Mt. Zion has limited access. Backcountry permits are limited. The parks have seen a massive influx of visitors since covid, and here’s the thing. Most everyone never goes more than 1/4 mile from a paved lot or key attraction. If you take a longer trail, you’re likely to encounter fewer people. So, most people will jam in around Old Faithful, but far fewer go to other areas of the park.

State parks can get crowded too, like Watkins Glen and Letchworth.

Tourism money is a huge lure. Of that money, the workers at most of those hotels, motels, and restaurants are lower wage workers.

8
Cheechako  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:45:41am

It’s happening everywhere:

‘Unprecedented’ visitors at Mendenhall Glacier rapidly outpacing allowed capacity

9
Nerdy Fish  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:46:20am

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

And there it is. Russia has just declared open season on shipping in the Black Sea, including - it would seem - ships carrying grain.

[Embedded content]

Umm, did they learn nothing from the Germans in the North Sea in 1917?

10
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:46:27am

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

From July 20, we’re just gonna make shit up,” Russian Defense Ministry

[Embedded content]

11
gocart mozart  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:47:24am
12
Nerdy Fish  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:47:38am

re: #6 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

I seem to recall this being a thing, specifically with school food funds, and they were upset because the government said they had to not discriminate against gays and trans kids in order to get the money.

13
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:48:37am

You break it, you bought it.

Applies to volcanos?

Breach in wall on west side and lava spills out:

iceland volcano 19 July 2023
14
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:48:52am

Unfortunately, over-crowding at our National Parks has become a way of life these days. Yosemite and Arches, among others, restrict entry because there is simply not enough parking to accommodate people. Zion limits the number of people that can climb the iconic Angel’s Landing hike. Try photographing Delicate Arch without having somebody standing beneath or around it. Rocky Mountain and Glacier have timed tickets to gate the number of cars driving Trail Ridge and Going-to-the-Sun roads. And all the parks require reservations for most camping opportunities. I don’t begrudge people their opportunity to visit thee stunning places but we’re loving them to death.

15
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:49:42am

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

Because that tactic worked so well for Germany in WW1.

16
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:51:43am

re: #15 jaunte

Because that tactic worked so well for Germany in WW1.

Guess we just have to wait for an RMS Lusitania-type incident now.

17
Shropshire Slasher  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:53:38am
IRS agent Joseph Ziegler stepped forward Wednesday as the second whistleblower alleging a coverup in the criminal investigation of President Biden’s son Hunter — calling himself a “gay Democrat” who wanted “to do what is right.”

Ziegler worked on the investigation since it opened in 2018 and was joined by his supervisory agent Gary Shapley, who oversaw the probe since January 2020, at a House Oversight Committee hearing.

“I had recently heard an elected official say that I must be more credible, because I am a gay Democrat married to a man,” Ziegler said in prepared opening remarks distributed ahead of the hearing.

“I’m no more credible than this man sitting next to me due to my sexual orientation or my political beliefs. I was raised and have always strived to do what is right,” the IRS agent planned to say.

nypost.com

18
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:54:06am

re: #14 sizzzzlerz

Unfortunately, over-crowding at our National Parks has become a way of life these days. Yosemite and Arches, among others, restrict entry because there is simply not enough parking to accommodate people. Zion limits the number of people that can climb the iconic Angel’s Landing hike. Try photographing Delicate Arch without having somebody standing beneath or around it. Rocky Mountain and Glacier have timed tickets to gate the number of cars driving Trail Ridge and Going-to-the-Sun roads. And all the parks require reservations for most camping opportunities. I don’t begrudge people their opportunity to visit thee stunning places but we’re loving them to death.

Same with coral reefs and popular dive sites.
And while a lot of that is overcrowding, a fair bit is lousy diving skills

19
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:54:26am

re: #11 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Good lord, I think my IQ dropped 100 points. How does she dress herself?

20
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:55:37am

re: #6 Dave In Austin

After struggling for nearly a year to get federal food assistance to qualified low-income families, Missouri has decided not to participate in this summer’s program — forgoing tens of millions of dollars in federal aid.

The problems administering the Pandemic Electronic Benefits Transfer program, or P-EBT, played a major role in the decision not to participate this year. Missouri education officials are not confident new money could be dispersed by a Sept. 30 deadline.

“As many Missouri families can attest, there have been a number of challenges throughout the process due to the federal requirements associated with accessing and administering the benefits,” said Mallory McGowin, a spokesperson for the Department of Elementary and Education, which administers the program, “coupled with the limitations of our current state and local data collection systems.”

They’re turning down the money because the State Government doesn’t have the resources to disburse it in time. I’m sure that’s a feature, not a bug. SMH.

21
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:56:33am

re: #7 lawhawk

Most everyone never goes more than 1/4 mile from a paved lot or key attraction. If you take a longer trail, you’re likely to encounter fewer people

THIS right here is why I LOVE hiking.

22
Charles Johnson  Jul 19, 2023 • 10:59:12am

RFK Jr. now says he’s going to back US currency with, wait for it, Bitcoin.

Are we certain this guy isn’t just trolling everybody?

23
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:00:16am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

RFK Jr. now says he’s going to back US currency with, wait for it, Bitcoin.

Are we certain this guy isn’t just trolling everybody?

Bitcoin? That ponzi scheme is going to back the US currency? Why not just say you’re backing it with lithium. That’d be slightly more sane. /

24
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:00:34am

re: #21 Eclectic Cyborg

THIS right here is why I LOVE hiking.

Very true. The vast majority of visitors to Grand Canyon go no further than the rail at the edge.

National Lampoon’s Vacation - “The Grand Canyon” - HD

Funny, but it isn’t far from the truth.

25
A Cranky One  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:02:26am

Video of our host’s programming style..

Glyptodont performed on the… Qwertar?

26
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:02:36am

I decided to do a little virtual tourism and return to the Bright Angel Trail bridge, last crossed years ago at the end of an afternoon hike down, lit only by starlight.

What’s up with those cable supports?

27
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:02:52am

re: #24 sizzzzlerz

Never go beyond the rail at the South Rim El Tovar.

I’ve walked the South Rim Trail. Visited the North Rim and did some smallish hikes there.

South Rim: significant crowds, especially where the bus stops are along the South Rim.
North Rim: nary a soul.

28
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:03:55am

Mastodon

29
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:05:16am

re: #27 lawhawk

I took my family camping on the north rim; it was extremely quiet except for the campground manager’s dog and and a bear arguing over the bear’s right to get into a garbage can.

30
Semper Fi  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:06:39am

re: #23 lawhawk

Bitcoin? That ponzi scheme is going to back the US currency? Why not just say you’re backing it with lithium. That’d be slightly more sane. /

Secretly, he intends to prove a complete nut can be President (just like the last time).

31
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:07:56am

Like cracking an egg and then breaking the yolk:

Huge crater collapse on July 19 - Lava flash flood in Iceland


..

32
DodgerFan1988  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:08:21am
33
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:08:26am

First critic reviews for Oppenheimer are in. Rotten Tomatoes has it at 94% and over at Metacritic, it sits at 90%, “universal acclaim” territory.

rottentomatoes.com

metacritic.com

From the Hollywood Reporter review:

This is a big, ballsy, serious-minded cinematic event of a type now virtually extinct from the studios. It fully embraces the contradictions of an intellectual giant who was also a deeply flawed man, his legacy complicated by his own ambivalence toward the breakthrough achievement that secured his place in the history books.

From Collider:

Oppenheimer is a towering achievement not just for Nolan, but for everyone involved. It is the kind of film that makes you appreciative of every aspect of filmmaking, blowing you away with how it all comes together in such a fitting fashion. Even though Nolan is honing in on talents that have brought him to where he is today, this film takes this to a whole new level of which we’ve never seen him before. With Oppenheimer, Nolan is more mature as a filmmaker than ever before, and it feels like we may just now be beginning to see what incredible work he’s truly capable of making.

34
William Lewis  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:11:12am

re: #30 Semper Fi

Secretly, he intends to prove a complete nut can be President (just like the last time).

< shrug >
Gunner! beehive! Shitheads in the open! Laid and ready! (picked up ice) good! Fire when ready!

35
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:12:01am
36
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:14:23am

Guess someone did a poll in NH and found they’re not falling for RFK’s batshit crazy routine. They’ll write in Biden’s name to avoid giving RFK any credibility.

Right now, it appears Biden would win NH handily, even if his name isn’t on the ballot.

37
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:15:34am

re: #27 lawhawk

Never go beyond the rail at the South Rim El Tovar.

I’ve walked the South Rim Trail. Visited the North Rim and did some smallish hikes there.

South Rim: significant crowds, especially where the bus stops are along the South Rim.
North Rim: nary a soul.

I’ve stopped going to the south rim during peak visitor season. The last couple of times, I went in winter. Much less stressful and you get a different view of the canyon. The north rim is definitely much quieter and even gives you just as awesome views. With 4WD, you can drive to overlooks where there is absolutely no one.

38
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:16:03am

re: #11 gocart mozart

The reason I try to give as many citations as I do is exactly for the case you presented.

That interviewer needs to be better prepared. They can take PDFs of all 70-some rulings with them and show the interviewees.

Then if the interviewee still does not believe, use a socratic method on them to see if that helps.

And in fact that is what she is doing to the interviewer. She’s asking questions and he just repeats the same thing over and over. He needs to answer with more questions.

Many self-styled progressives are not as aware as they ought to be about the nature of religious belief and how to interact with it.

39
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:16:35am

Mastodon

40
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:21:44am

re: #37 sizzzzlerz

I’ve stopped going to the south rim during peak visitor season. The last couple of times, I went in winter. Much less stressful and you get a different view of the canyon. The north rim is definitely much quieter and even gives you just as awesome views. With 4WD, you can drive to overlooks where there is absolutely no one.

Until I had the little man, I’d go shoulder season. Visiting Yellowstone in May means avoiding the worst of the summer crowds. Visiting Badlands in October, after Labor Day means few crowds, and while you have fewer food options as seasonal restaurants and businesses close, you still get to see all the wonderful things to see.

41
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:23:17am

re: #14 sizzzzlerz

Unfortunately, over-crowding at our National Parks has become a way of life these days. Yosemite and Arches, among others, restrict entry because there is simply not enough parking to accommodate people. Zion limits the number of people that can climb the iconic Angel’s Landing hike. Try photographing Delicate Arch without having somebody standing beneath or around it. Rocky Mountain and Glacier have timed tickets to gate the number of cars driving Trail Ridge and Going-to-the-Sun roads. And all the parks require reservations for most camping opportunities. I don’t begrudge people their opportunity to visit thee stunning places but we’re loving them to death.

The big sticking point for me is recreation.gov and some of the processes in place.

There are a number of areas of improvements and some parks have started to make them. Zion implemented a lottery system for Angels Landing. You have two windows - one is months ahead and one is the day before for the more spontaneous. You have a set timeframe to enter the lottery as opposed to first-come first-served which has led to a situation where permits open at 8am and are all gone to bots and folks with rapid connections by 8:02 am (examples - Going to the Sun Rd in Glacier; Bear Lake corridor in Rocky Mountain).

It’s also nearly impossible to get a campsite reserved now for the same reason. The reservations are gone within minutes of being released. A lot are snatched up by the FOMO folks who then forget to cancel as soon as they realize they can’t go. The penalty for cancelling is negligible, which doesn’t help.

Booz Allen has the contract for contract for recreation.gov. They’re making millions (they keep the processing fees even if you DON’T win the lotteries and some, like the Wave, have like a 3% success rate of winning the opportunity to hike).

42
Belafon  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:23:42am

re: #35 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

They are not “thesauri” on steroids. That’s just as stupid an observation as claiming they are actually intelligent. That’s like claiming a jet engine is just an advanced horse and buggy.

ML algorithms have already performed a large number of tasks that we thought were impossible for computers to do, some better than humans. Trying to LLMs as just faster versions of ELIZA totally belies the seriousness of the technology and dismisses the fact that we should be figuring out how we’re going to use them, and prevent them from being abused.

43
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:25:20am

Trump’s effort to move his NY criminal trial to federal court was denied.

Let’s just say there was a failure to state a cause, or support with any evidence that federal charges or issues were involved.

44
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:26:28am

45
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:27:42am

re: #43 lawhawk

Trump’s effort to move his NY criminal trial to federal court was denied.

Let’s just say there was a failure to state a cause, or support with any evidence that federal charges or issues were involved.

So.
Much.
Winning.

😄

46
gocart mozart  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:29:04am
47
Joe Bacon ✅  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:29:11am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

RFK Jr. now says he’s going to back US currency with, wait for it, Bitcoin.

Are we certain this guy isn’t just trolling everybody?

Well at least he’s not saying that he wants to return to the gold standard…

48
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:33:19am

re: #43 lawhawk

Trump’s effort to move his NY criminal trial to federal court was denied.

Let’s just say there was a failure to state a cause, or support with any evidence that federal charges or issues were involved.

[Embedded content]

25 page opinion here

49
gocart mozart  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:33:51am
50
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:34:32am

GOP: IRS should have been tougher on investigating Hunter Biden before 2020 election.
House Dems: who was in office through January 20, 2021?
Witless witness: can you rephrase? huh?
HD: who was president in 2020?

Trump and his appointments were running the IRS that didn’t adequately investigate Hunter Biden according to GOP narrative. How is this a scandal? GOP wants to dismantle audit and compliance capabilities of IRS to go after people who cheat on their taxes.

GOP wanted to politicize the IRS to go after their political enemies.

This is yet more proof that the House GOP (and the GOP gneerally) are completely unmoored from reality.

51
GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:37:01am

re: #50 lawhawk

Raja!!!! 😍😍😍

52
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:39:31am

re: #39 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I’ve been to that museum. Can’t say I remember those particular items, so thanks.

53
GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:41:17am

re: #42 Belafon

AD. Artificial Dumbasses.

54
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:41:17am
55
aatharuv  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:41:27am

re: #36 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Guess someone did a poll in NH and found they’re not falling for RFK’s batshit crazy routine. They’ll write in Biden’s name to avoid giving RFK any credibility.

Right now, it appears Biden would win NH handily, even if his name isn’t on the ballot.

Is there a reason why the President’s name wouldn’t be on the ballot? Are they pissed off enough over the plan to make New Hampshire no longer be the first primary that they won’t allow him on?

56
BeachDem  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:43:05am

re: #50 lawhawk

My favorite Krishnamoorthi moment of all time

57
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:45:09am

Mastodon

58
Shropshire Slasher  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:45:20am

re: #50 lawhawk

GOP: IRS should have been tougher on investigating Hunter Biden before 2020 election.
House Dems: who was in office through January 20, 2021?
Witless witness: can you rephrase? huh?
HD: who was president in 2020?

[Embedded content]

Trump and his appointments were running the IRS that didn’t adequately investigate Hunter Biden according to GOP narrative. How is this a scandal? GOP wants to dismantle audit and compliance capabilities of IRS to go after people who cheat on their taxes.

GOP wanted to politicize the IRS to go after their political enemies.

This is yet more proof that the House GOP (and the GOP gneerally) are completely unmoored from reality.

Hopefully Judge Maryellen Noreika took today off.

59
Dave In Austin  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:45:33am

re: #26 jaunte

I’ve been down and up. down the Kaibab and up Bright Angel. it was a long hot Day hike but ManoMan….. The stuff you see.

60
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:47:56am

re: #55 aatharuv

Is there a reason why the President’s name wouldn’t be on the ballot? Are they pissed off enough over the plan to make New Hampshire no longer be the first primary that they won’t allow him on?

Yes.

The DNC indicated that South Carolina would be first to hold a primary, and NH in a fit decided not to follow (state law requires being first in the nation). Therefore, anyone who runs in that primary risks having their delegates not counted towards the final tally per DNC rules.

61
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:50:43am

re: #48 Backwoods Sleuth

25 page opinion here

Yup. To be clear - Trump motioned to move the case to federal court. The federal court took a motion from NY prosecutors to remand back to state court. The federal court agreed - finding no reason to move to federal court in the first place.

62
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:51:53am

re: #60 lawhawk

‘We can’t change it, because we did it that way since 1920’ seems anti-democratic.

63
calochortus  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:52:46am

re: #14 sizzzzlerz

Unfortunately, over-crowding at our National Parks has become a way of life these days. Yosemite and Arches, among others, restrict entry because there is simply not enough parking to accommodate people. Zion limits the number of people that can climb the iconic Angel’s Landing hike. Try photographing Delicate Arch without having somebody standing beneath or around it. Rocky Mountain and Glacier have timed tickets to gate the number of cars driving Trail Ridge and Going-to-the-Sun roads. And all the parks require reservations for most camping opportunities. I don’t begrudge people their opportunity to visit thee stunning places but we’re loving them to death.

Makes me glad I’m old enough to have been many of these places before things got utterly insane. I don’t know that I’ll ever go back to Yosemite, for example. Just way too many people. Some parks have parts that are far less crowded than the “main” parts of the park, and some are just gloriously uncrowded everywhere (if somewhat less spectacular) like Lassen Volcanic (where we were last week) or Great Basin.

64
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:57:44am

Mastodon

65
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:58:49am

Senator Ron Wyden
@wyden.senate.gov

Two huge wins for privacy out of the House Judiciary Committee today. It just UNANIMOUSLY passed:
1. My 4th Amdt Is Not For Sale Act to go after shady data brokers selling Americans’ personal data
2. My PRESS Act to protect journalists and their sources from government intrusion

66
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:59:25am

Ron Wyden

67
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:59:26am

Ron Wyden

68
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 11:59:39am

ooops

69
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:00:40pm

ctrl+enter makes the stuff in the box go into a different box that others can see.

70
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:00:53pm

re: #63 calochortus

Makes me glad I’m old enough to have been many of these places before things got utterly insane. I don’t know that I’ll ever go back to Yosemite, for example. Just way too many people. Some parks have parts that are far less crowded than the “main” parts of the park, and some are just gloriously uncrowded everywhere (if somewhat less spectacular) like Lassen Volcanic (where we were last week) or Great Basin.

Did a day trip to Teddy Roosevelt NP a couple of weeks ago while visiting family in ND. Didn’t have time to hike or anything, just drove the scenic loop in the south unit. Saw wild horses, deer, elk, prairie dogs (no bison for the first time ever for me; it’s almost impossible not to see bison). My youngest needed a bathroom break and I knew of an outhouse 1/4 off the main road at the start of the Lower Paddock Creek trail. Not a single car there at the trail head. Saw maybe 25 cars on the scenic drive.

71
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:03:17pm

re: #63 calochortus

One of our favorites is Capitol Reef - down the road from the far more famous Big Five: Arches, Bryce, Canyonlands, or Zion (or the Grand Canyon just a bit further away).

It’s out of the way, and it is serenely beautiful with none of the crowds of the other nearby parks. It is glorious.

Heck, Zion has the Kolob canyon area that is away from the crowds as well. Every park has hidden gems away from the crowds.

72
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:08:48pm

re: #71 lawhawk

One of our favorites is Capitol Reef - down the road from the far more famous Big Five: Arches, Bryce, Canyonlands, or Zion (or the Grand Canyon just a bit further away).

It’s out of the way, and it is serenely beautiful with none of the crowds of the other nearby parks. It is glorious.

Heck, Zion has the Kolob canyon area that is away from the crowds as well. Every park has hidden gems away from the crowds.

The ironic part of Kolob Canyons area is that it’s easily accessed from I-15. It’s almost a scenic rest area (BTW, one of the best Interstate scenic rest areas is Painted Canyon off of I-94 overlooking Teddy Roosevelt NP). Kolob Terrace Rd is a great drive (like Northgate Peaks for the relatively easy hike with a view). Angels Landing is such a zoo that they had to implement the permit system but you go fifteen feet down West Rim Trail from Scout Lookout (where the Angels Landing spur trail with chains starts) and you’re in solitude. Personally, I like the east side - going down into the empty solitude of Echo Canyon starting from Stave Spring trail head and swinging over to the crowds at Observation Pt and returning via the east East Mesa trail is a favorite.

73
darthstar  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:09:56pm

Mastodon

74
Hecuba's daughter  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:11:30pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

RFK Jr. now says he’s going to back US currency with, wait for it, Bitcoin.

Are we certain this guy isn’t just trolling everybody?

Almost 2 weeks ago when he was in town, my Republican brother asked me about my opinion of RFK Jr. When I told him of RFK’s opposition to vaccinations, he seemed to lose any interest in him as a candidate. Can guarantee that bitcoin support would lower him even further in my brother’s estimation.

75
calochortus  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:12:41pm

re: #71 lawhawk

When we were at Zion we spent a day in the Kolob Canyon area. Not as spectacular as the eastern side of the park, but still so much to see-and so few people.
Of course, the whole bit about getting 5 minutes away from the park road at any national park isn’t new. My mom noted that about Yellowstone 60 years ago.

76
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:14:21pm

re: #33 Dr Lizardo

First critic reviews for Oppenheimer are in. Rotten Tomatoes has it at 94% and over at Metacritic, it sits at 90%, “universal acclaim” territory.

rottentomatoes.com

metacritic.com

From the Hollywood Reporter review:

From Collider:

I’m happy to see this. Cillian Murphy has always been a favorite of mine. It’s about time he got a chance to lead a major film like this.

77
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:15:24pm

When Mr. w and I were crossing Missouri and Kansas by bicycle, we would most often camp in the city park of the county seat. Those were conveniently located a day’s ride apart. Twice there were public pools, which weren’t free, but they let me take a shower for free. We were always the only ones staying the night in the park.

I imagine this summer we’d have company.

78
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:15:56pm

My youngest daughter thinks it’s totally unfair that she can’t qualify for the Best for Last Club. I was born there and it is her second state as she first visited when two months old.

79
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:20:26pm

re: #76 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m happy to see this. Cillian Murphy has always been a favorite of mine. It’s about time he got a chance to lead a major film like this.

Same here. By all accounts, his performance in Oppenheimer is pretty much a shoo-in for an Oscar nod.

On that note, time to call it a day. Have a good one, Lizards and stay healthy.

80
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:21:12pm

levelbot
levelbot@mastodon.social

tests are showing broccoli levels at 44%

(44%) ■■■■□□□□□□

81
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:23:54pm

re: #77 wrenchwench

When Mr. w and I were crossing Missouri and Kansas by bicycle, we would most often camp in the city park of the county seat. Those were conveniently located a day’s ride apart. Twice there were public pools, which weren’t free, but they let me take a shower for free. We were always the only ones staying the night in the park.

I imagine this summer we’d have company.

‘Farm Aid’ concerts were happening in the cities far away. We crossed paths 5 times with an auctioneer traveling all over Kansas with his family in a trailer, doing a combination auction tour/family vacation. When we got to the auctioneer’s county, people started pulling over to ask if they could do anything for us. Somebody paid for breakfast for us. It was the only county in Kansas where drivers waved as enthusiastically as everybody in Missouri did.

82
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:32:29pm
83
Dave In Austin  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:37:04pm

Anyone know someone who’s in the market for a self contained high density HP ECOPOD Data Center?

I got 2 of them I need to sell.

84
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:39:48pm

re: #82 lawhawk

85
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:40:57pm
86
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:42:09pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

RFK Jr. now says he’s going to back US currency with, wait for it, Bitcoin.

Are we certain this guy isn’t just trolling everybody?

We should back US currency with pie.

87
Thanos  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:42:27pm

I am an Urban tourist and stay away from remote locales.

I saw enough of those as a child, my parents were in the service and perpetually too poor to afford the plane, train, or bus tickets for our family when we our dad’s tour changed. So we ended up driving cross country multiple times and camping like hobos along the way, with only an occasional stay at a cheap motel.

The parent units were also pretty good about taking the detours to see mammoth cave, or Sea lion beach, or the Mystery spot, or whatever other roadside attraction we were passing. As a result of that and spending too many years in remote locations in Alaska, I don’t really need to see the wilds anymore, so all my destinations are Urban nowadays.

88
Thanos  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:43:33pm

re: #83 Dave In Austin

Anyone know someone who’s in the market for a self contained high density HP ECOPOD Data Center?

I got 2 of them I need to sell.

[Embedded content]

Bitcoin miners go under or what?

89
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:44:02pm

re: #87 Thanos

driving cross country multiple times and camping like hobos along the way, with only an occasional stay at a cheap motel

That’s my childhood.

90
Thanos  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:44:49pm

re: #86 Vicious Babushka

We should back US currency with pie.

I second that solution.

91
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:45:24pm

re: #86 Vicious Babushka

Very easy to chart.

92
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:47:49pm

re: #91 jaunte

Very easy to chart.

93
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:51:14pm
94
KGxvi  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:51:52pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

I know there’s a desire to make money, but we’re at that point where it seems some of these parks needing to be restricting daily visitors to a certain number and sticking to it. I know some places already do that.

It’s not just national parks. Some state parks get insanely crowded too.

I’ll be honest, I’m not much for state or national parks (other than beaches). I prefer to vacation in cities with really good restaurants (and preferably beaches). But there’s a not small part of me that does not like the idea of closing the public out of public lands. To borrow a line from TR:

There is nothing so American as our national parks…. The fundamental idea behind the parks…is that the country belongs to the people, that it is in process of making for the enrichment of the lives of all of us.

95
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:52:14pm

Mastodon

Mastodon

96
Mike Lamb  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:53:02pm

re: #84 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Sweet. Revenge Porn in a committee meeting.

97
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:53:21pm
98
Dave In Austin  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:53:48pm

re: #88 Thanos

That Tech is something completely different. Data Mining ops are typically using submersion technology for their servers. They don’t go in racks anymore. They go in tanks of flowing coolant.

99
Joe Bacon ✅  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:54:50pm

re: #86 Vicious Babushka

We should back US currency with pie.

Mama’s Sour Orange Pie!

100
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:56:30pm

re: #83 Dave In Austin

I think I might have seen one of those getting assembled at one of HP’s Houston facilities.

101
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:57:48pm

Raskin: “If my GOP colleagues think that the treatment of millions of tax scofflaws or even the handful who face criminal prosecution like Hunter Biden is too lenient, I invite them to join us Dems in supporting the $80b for the IRS we included in the Inflation Reduction Act”

102
KGxvi  Jul 19, 2023 • 12:58:20pm

re: #95 jaunte

So the speech and debate clause says they shall not be questioned in any other place. That doesn’t mean they can’t be punished or expelled for unruly behavior.

Of course, much like the Supreme Court ethics rules debate, this only matter if there is actual political will to exercise the powers granted to Congress by the Constitution

103
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:00:08pm

re: #6 Dave In Austin

Missouri’s Republican Governor Rejects $42.7 Million in Federal Food Aid: Money To Be Redistributed To Other States

Sparing his people the stigma of government dependence. CHARACTER OVER NUTRITION

104
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:01:53pm

re: #87 Thanos

I am an Urban tourist and stay away from remote locales.

[..].

I’m beginning to think some of the folks here might not be good travel partners for me.

“How about we go to XXX? They have great restaurants and museums and culture and a cool beach.” Me: “I’m busy”.

“How about we take the canoe up north, do several 500 rod portages to get away from people, suffer clouds of biting flies and mosquitos, and eat dehydrated food because we didn’t catch enough fish?” Me: “Can we leave tonight yet?”

105
A hollow voice says: Abort SCOTUS  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:02:44pm

re: #104 dat_said

I’m beginning to think some of the folks here might not be good travel partners for me.

“How about we go to XXX? They have great restaurants and museums and culture and a cool beach.” Me: “I’m busy”.

“How about we take the canoe up north, do several 500 rod portages to get away from people, suffer clouds of biting flies and mosquitos, and eat dehydrated food because we didn’t catch enough fish?” Me: “Can we leave tonight yet?”

Pass. 😉

106
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:03:32pm

re: #82 lawhawk

Marjorie Taylor Greene is currently brandishing Hunter Biden nudes during a House hearing. I’m not going to post it. Disgusting.

How about some nude Melainia shots?

107
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:05:25pm
108
Joe Bacon ✅  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:06:35pm

‘Cyber Ninjas’ ensnared in Arizona fake electors investigation

Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes’ office is reportedly investigating attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in the state.

Sources told The Arizona Republic an investigation focused on two slates of fake electors for then-President Donald Trump. It was also said to be looking into an audit led by Cyber Ninjas CEO Doug Logan.

The so-called audit “was managed, financed and organized by allies of Trump,” the paper said. “It so far has cost Arizona taxpayers more than $5 million without delivering any definitive results.”

The Attorney General’s Office confirmed that an investigation was underway but would not provide specifics. Logan declined to comment to the paper.

rawstory.com

109
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:06:50pm

Meanwhile in my neck of the woods we have almost no rain forecast for the next two weeks.

110
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:11:27pm
111
Joe Bacon ✅  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:15:14pm

Meanwhile in Arizona, Krazy Kari files another appeal

Kari Lake asks state Supreme Court to overturn her loss, let her skip the appeals process

In the petition to the Supreme Court, Lake asks for a reversal of the trial court’s decision or for a new election, saying that she has developed new evidence since the trial that warrants her request. Plaintiffs are typically not allowed to present new evidence during the appeals process, which instead focuses on whether lower courts correctly applied the law.

Lake and her attorneys have repeatedly made dramatic announcements on social media regarding what they called new evidence of corruption, malfeasance or incompetence that they say impacted the 2022 general election in Maricopa County, but so far the trial, appeals and Supreme courts have not found that evidence convincing.

This time, Lake is accusing Maricopa County of hiding that hundreds of tabulators experienced errors during testing ahead of the election and that it falsely certified the tabulators before that testing. She also claims that the county used an uncertified version of software on its tabulators, instead of the version certified to be used in Arizona.

rawstory.com

112
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:17:05pm

re: #63 calochortus

Makes me glad I’m old enough to have been many of these places before things got utterly insane. I don’t know that I’ll ever go back to Yosemite, for example. Just way too many people. Some parks have parts that are far less crowded than the “main” parts of the park, and some are just gloriously uncrowded everywhere (if somewhat less spectacular) like Lassen Volcanic (where we were last week) or Great Basin.

I did as well. Mostly in the 70s and 80s when you could still drive to the end of the road in Zion to hike the narrows without 250 of your best friends. Or arrive at the campground in Arches in the morning and snag a campsite without reservations.

Both those parks are wonderful places to visit with out the massive crowds. I’d also suggest Capitol Reef, Redwoods, and Pinnacles.

113
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:17:16pm
114
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:21:41pm

re: #39 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Damn! Those are works of art.

115
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:27:02pm

re: #105 A hollow voice says: Abort SCOTUS

Pass. 😉

Full pass! 4 Star+ or I’m outta there.

116
No Malarkey!  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:31:39pm

re: #3 dat_said

They’re already bombed the stored grain meant for export.

Kyiv Says 60,000 Tonnes Of Grain Destroyed In Odesa Attack

Russia can’t win the war on the ground, so they are going to starve Africans to try to generate international pressure against Ukraine. Despicable, but it’s just one more crime to add to all of the other crimes Putin and his gang have committed since this war began.

117
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:32:05pm

re: #114 sizzzzlerz

Damn! Those are works of art.

this one is gorgeous:

Mastodon

118
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:33:08pm

Mastodon

119
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:34:36pm

Mastodon

120
calochortus  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:40:07pm

re: #112 sizzzzlerz

I did as well. Mostly in the 70s and 80s when you could still drive to the end of the road in Zion to hike the narrows without 250 of your best friends. Or arrive at the campground in Arches in the morning and snag a campsite without reservations.

Both those parks are wonderful places to visit with out the massive crowds. I’d also suggest Capitol Reef, Redwoods, and Pinnacles.

Yup. Excellent choices.

121
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:41:25pm

re: #115 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Full pass! 4 Star+ or I’m outta there.

Even if I pitch the tent for you and promise walleye over the grill, the Milky Way, and maybe even the Northern Lights? I’d even be willing to portage some wine back there for you (not in a bottle, of course - no glass in the BWCA).

I think I was right. I’d be a horrible travel partner for some of you. I do compromise a little. I’m okay now with a rented houseboat at Voyageurs with the family, though that took a bit getting used to.

122
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:41:55pm

From Bluesky.

oh he charged the police while carrying a gun and he’s still alive? he must be — clicks link — yep, of course he is. nbcnews.com

At least he got 7 years.

123
calochortus  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:43:05pm

re: #122 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Those are some odd “instincts” he’s got.

124
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:47:21pm

re: #116 No Malarkey!

Russia can’t win the war on the ground, so they are going to starve Africans to try to generate international pressure against Ukraine. Despicable, but it’s just one more crime to add to all of the other crimes Putin and his gang have committed since this war began.

If Russia subjugates Ukraine, they’ll control 30% of the world’s grain supply.

125
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:47:36pm

re: #121 dat_said

Even if I pitch the tent for you and promise walleye over the grill, the Milky Way, and maybe even the Northern Lights? I’d even be willing to portage some wine back there for you (not in a bottle, of course - no glass in the BWCA).

I think I was right. I’d be a horrible travel partner for some of you. I do compromise a little. I’m okay now with a rented houseboat at Voyageurs with the family, though that took a bit getting used to.

I’m not a drinker. The food and views sounds good. But I can’t bring myself to sleep with the bugs and bears and other things that might want to eat me.

A houseboat might be acceptable.

That said, I really prefer to be alone with my dogs. I was antisocial long before it was cool.

126
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:49:02pm

re: #123 calochortus

Those are some odd “instincts” he’s got.

And he’s quite proud of himself. He sees himself as a defender of … what I’m not sure, but he’s not backing down. Rot in prison asshole.

127
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:50:39pm

re: #116 No Malarkey!

Russia can’t win the war on the ground, so they are going to starve Africans to try to generate international pressure against Ukraine. Despicable, but it’s just one more crime to add to all of the other crimes Putin and his gang have committed since this war began.

So Putin expects us to blame Ukraine for the grain getting blown up?

128
Nerdy Fish  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:51:49pm

re: #127 Eclectic Cyborg

So Putin expects us to blame Ukraine for the grain getting blown up?

Well, yeah. If Ukraine wasn’t so full of Nazis, the Russians wouldn’t have to blow up their grain. See how this works?

129
gocart mozart  Jul 19, 2023 • 1:54:59pm
130
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:01:25pm

re: #50 lawhawk

GOP: IRS should have been tougher on investigating Hunter Biden before 2020 election.
House Dems: who was in office through January 20, 2021?
Witless witness: can you rephrase? huh?
HD: who was president in 2020?

[Embedded content]

Trump and his appointments were running the IRS that didn’t adequately investigate Hunter Biden according to GOP narrative. How is this a scandal? GOP wants to dismantle audit and compliance capabilities of IRS to go after people who cheat on their taxes.

GOP wanted to politicize the IRS to go after their political enemies.

This is yet more proof that the House GOP (and the GOP gneerally) are completely unmoored from reality.

you’d think they’d ALL know this question was gonna come somehow, from someone

131
gocart mozart  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:03:06pm
132
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:05:18pm

re: #131 gocart mozart

133
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:07:42pm

re: #122 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

From Bluesky.

oh he charged the police while carrying a gun and he’s still alive? he must be — clicks link — yep, of course he is. nbcnews.com

At least he got 7 years.

[Embedded content]

Instinct is what makes a baby cry when it’s hungry or lonely, There is no known natural instinctual reason that makes some fat, bearded, 30 year old douchebag want to riot because some orange-skinned, disease addled, lunatic told him to.

134
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:08:13pm

re: #104 dat_said

I’m beginning to think some of the folks here might not be good travel partners for me.

“How about we go to XXX? They have great restaurants and museums and culture and a cool beach.” Me: “I’m busy”.

“How about we take the canoe up north, do several 500 rod portages to get away from people, suffer clouds of biting flies and mosquitos, and eat dehydrated food because we didn’t catch enough fish?” Me: “Can we leave tonight yet?”

‘rods’ — nice

135
retired cynic  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:08:44pm

Today’s quote:
There may be no excuse for laziness, but I’m still looking…

136
sizzzzlerz  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:09:45pm

re: #135 retired cynic

Today’s quote:
There may be no excuse for laziness, but I’m still looking…

Meh. Too much work. I gave up.

137
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:10:14pm

re: #134 Dangerman (sigh…only in America)

‘rods’ — nice

I’m an elitist canoeist. I also say portage with a soft ‘g’.

138
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:12:34pm

re: #131 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

I’ll be billing you for that. It’ll include therapy, and probably Cialis.

139
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:12:54pm

A L Katz
@Alan@lor.sh

Jack Smith isn’t fucking around. When he indicts Trump, it will be based on a shitload of witnesses who flipped on Trump rather than do extra time in the can on Trump’s behalf.

That will include Rudy G. And Rudy G ain’t getting off Scott free.

We will begin to learn just how screwed everyone around Trump is. We’ll also begin to grasp how vast the criminal conspiracy is and how many people - every last one a Republican - are complicit.

Many of those Republicans are currently elected to office. Whatever will THEY do about 2024. Will THEY press on - despite the crushing legal weight and financial burden? There aren’t nearly enough GoFundMe dollars to go around.

And the donors - if any of THEIR money helped pay for the insurrection? They’re going to have their own legal problems. Political donations? Fuck no - they’re going to have legal bills to pay first.

The only way to stop from bankrupting their families and losing their homes will be to rat out everyone they can.

Then Fani Willis will drop her DOZENS of indictments. That will include even MORE elected Republicans (including Lindsey Graham).

The 2024 election landscape is about to change profoundly.

It won’t change the minds of MAGAts, but it will remove a huge swath of the current GOP from office right when they should be running for re-election.

The Republican Brand is about to get permanently kneecapped. By their own criminality.

But the best part? At some point, one of the rats - having nothing to proffer about Jan 6 will instead offer up something even bigger - the reason WHY Trump had to steal another election: Russia.

But for Putin paying Trump (per Kevin McCarthy), Trump would never have “won” in 2016. The R’s knew Trump was compromised by Putin before they nominated him.

And why does Kevin McCarthy still defend Trump? Because McCarthy’s the guy who said “There’s two people I think Putin pays - Rohrbacher and Trump - swear to God!”

Every one of the GOP leaders (including then Speaker of the House Paul Ryan) who heard McCarthy KNEW that Dana Rohrbacher was indeed on Moscow’s payroll. To include Trump as equally compromised?

Everyone present at that meeting agreed to keep this fact SECRET. As Paul Ryan put it - “No leaks. . . . This is how we know we’re a real family here.”

A real family of traitors. This started as treason and it will come down to treason.

Boo-yah!

(paywalled i-think-putin-pays-trump)

washingtonpost.com

140
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:13:16pm

re: #137 dat_said

I’m an elitist canoeist. I also say portage with a soft ‘g’.

so do i when i mean potato and leek soup ;-)

141
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:14:11pm
142
Florida Panhandler  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:14:31pm

re: #131 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Will Republicans ever realize that the average voter has little to no interest at all in Hunter Biden?

With all of their self-owns, I hope not. President Biden’s campaign just gets more ammo courtesy of Republican idiocy.

143
Dave In Austin  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:14:38pm

re: #100 jaunte

I think I might have seen one of those getting assembled at one of HP’s Houston facilities.

Yep, Probably 11’ or 12’. Expensive suckers in the day and proprietary as hell regarding about everything. Oh yeah….. The chillers are German, bless their hearts.

Now would you like to chat about HP, the Company….. LOLOL!

144
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:15:19pm

re: #131 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Hunter Biden’s laptop has passed through more as many hands
than as Marjorie Taylor Greene’s vagina.

145
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:17:15pm

re: #139 BeenHereAwhile

a boy can dream
and what a nice dream it is

146
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:17:59pm

re: #137 dat_said

I’m an elitist canoeist. I also say portage with a soft ‘g’.

When I went to summer camp like 60 years ago, “portage” meant you had to drag the canoe up the bank and then haul it along a path because of an obstacle in the river.

You seriously ENJOY doing that?

147
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:19:07pm

re: #143 Dave In Austin

Yep, Probably 11’ or 12’. Expensive suckers in the day and proprietary as hell regarding about everything. Oh yeah….. The chillers are German, bless their hearts.

Now would you like to chat about HP, the Company….. LOLOL!

“P” = proprietary in HP.

148
Hecuba's daughter  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:21:00pm

re: #103 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Missouri’s Republican Governor Rejects $42.7 Million in Federal Food Aid: Money To Be Redistributed To Other States

Sparing his people the stigma of government dependence. CHARACTER OVER NUTRITION

You mean: Wealth over nutrition!

149
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:22:10pm
150
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:24:01pm

re: #149 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Did she make the Congressional Record x-rated?

151
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:25:20pm

re: #145 Dangerman (sigh…only in America)

a boy can dream
and what a nice dream it is

Ironically, it will be compromised Republicans who testify against Trump.

152
Jay C  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:25:58pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

Did she make the Congressional Record x-rated?

Possibly: this idiot’s very presence there is an obscenity……

153
Nojay UK  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:27:36pm

re: #148 Hecuba’s daughter

You mean: Wealth over nutrition!

I’m not sure I understand it properly but it seems like the State of Missouri is telling the federal government that it doesn’t have enough competent people in charge to be able to administer the legal and equitable distribution of the funds on offer. It’s not actually like they’re saying “we don’t want this help”, I think.

154
EPR-radar  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:28:12pm

re: #151 BeenHereAwhile

Ironically, it will be compromised Republicans who testify against Trump.

It’s not as if any of Trump’s criminal conspiracies as president would include any Democrats.

This is precisely why nearly every witness against a mob boss is also a crook.

155
gocart mozart  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:30:09pm
156
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:31:45pm

re: #137 dat_said

I’m an elitist canoeist. I also say portage with a soft ‘g’.

Por-taj.

157
Joe Bacon ✅  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:32:19pm

Nice to see that the Congressional Record has turned into Pornhub…or is it xHamster?

158
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:33:04pm

mayor of Columbia, TN:

159
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:37:07pm

re: #119 Vicious Babushka

160
Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:37:26pm

Say what you will about Aldean, he’s just generated a shit ton of free marketing for himself.

161
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:38:30pm

re: #160 Eclectic Cyborg

Say what you will about Aldean, he’s just generated a shit ton of free marketing for himself.

free marketing…he’s gonna get what he paid for…

162
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:38:36pm

re: #146 Vicious Babushka

When I went to summer camp like 60 years ago, “portage” meant you had to drag the canoe up the bank and then haul it along a path because of an obstacle in the river.

You seriously ENJOY doing that?

Uh, yeah.

Just a little “hi yup” and it’s up on your shoulders (and you have to say “hi yup”) and then it’s easy peasy carry. Canoes are much lighter now than 60 years ago. I have a 50-year-old 17 ft Alumacraft canoe that I keep in the backyard for the girls to tool around in the backyard lake that I will never take to the BWCA again because hi yupping the 72 lbs is a bit much now. Much easier with the 45 lb ones.

163
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:39:17pm

Mastodon

164
Barefoot Grin  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:40:46pm

re: #89 jaunte

That’s my childhood.

We were fortunate to have families on both sides that kept connections along various nodes of family connection. My parents exploited that to get us a night’s stay at a cousin only met that once.

165
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:41:23pm
166
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:43:04pm

Ken and Barbie in Russia:
by Lara Vychuzhanina

167
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:51:27pm

Mastodon

And why the fuck is Joe Scarborough running cover for No Labels on MSNBC, blathering about their only goal being to defeat Trump?

168
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:51:47pm

re: #165 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

GQP: “HUNTER BIDEN RECEIVED BILLIONS FROM CHINA ‘MYSTERIOUSLY,’ PROVING HE’S A BOUGHT AND PAID AGENT OF THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT!!!”

Also GQP: “Well, Trump has business interests in China, so receiving millions from unknown sources is totally normal and not a cause for concern…”

169
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:52:05pm

re: #164 Barefoot Grin

We were fortunate to have families on both sides that kept connections along various nodes of family connection. My parents exploited that to get us a night’s stay at a cousin only met that once.

I never stayed in a hotel until college while traveling with the track team. We always stayed at relatives. Not like we were well-traveled but we did manage trips around ND, SD, MN, MT & Canada.

170
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:52:46pm

re: #168 Targetpractice

Same people would be calling for Joe Biden to be hanged without trial for having a Chinese bank account.

171
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:56:17pm
172
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:57:03pm

173
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 2:57:56pm

re: #171 Dangerman (sigh…only in America)

CNN and MSNBC are trying to protect the GOP from further public embarrassment because they need a horserace.

174
Dangerman (sigh...only in America)  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:01:02pm
175
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:01:04pm
176
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:03:34pm

re: #171 Dangerman (sigh…only in America)

[Embedded content]

Perhaps because their lawyers looked at what was on tap and told management “Do you want a defamation lawsuit? Because THIS is how you get a defamation lawsuit!”

177
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:04:19pm

re: #175 Backwoods Sleuth

With tears in their big strong eyes.

178
Mike Lamb  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:06:33pm

re: #177 jaunte

With tears in their big strong eyes.

It’s wild that Trump has made the anonymous person professing their love of Trump a thing.

179
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:06:34pm
180
Nerdy Fish  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:08:35pm

re: #178 Mike Lamb

It’s wild that Trump has made the anonymous person professing their love of Trump a thing.

Nah, he just sensationalized it. Right wing personalities have been inventing ordinary people who suck up to them for decades.

181
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:09:44pm

re: #179 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

The sum total of the testimony from the “whistleblowers” is that they have no actual proof of real wrongdoing, but they REALLY didn’t like that they weren’t given a blank check to go Rotor-Rooter up Hunter’s backside in a blind search for anything that they could construe as a “felony.”

182
Markm1960  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:09:55pm

re: #120 calochortus

Yup. Excellent choices.

Redwoods Tall Trees trail and Fern Canyon are two of my favorite trails.

183
Barefoot Grin  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:10:02pm

re: #169 dat_said

I never stayed in a hotel until college while traveling with the track team. We always stayed at relatives. Not like we were well-traveled but we did manage trips around ND, SD, MN, MT & Canada.

We did a three-week trip from central Illinois up to Seattle, then through the Four Corners and back home and only stayed in hotels three nights. And we never camped. Another thing I should say: my parents spent many weeknights each year on personalized Christmas cards. They went through what they received the year before to make sure that there was a personal touch.

Now, I’m not saying that they cynically did this so that we could afford family vacations, but I’m also not saying that they were unaware of potential long-term benefits.

184
Barefoot Grin  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:11:38pm

re: #183 Barefoot Grin

We did a three-week trip from central Illinois up to Seattle, then through the Four Corners and back home and only stayed in hotels three nights. And we never camped. Another thing I should say: my parents spent many weeknights each year on personalized Christmas cards. They went through what they received the year before to make sure that there was a personal touch.

Now, I’m not saying that they cynically did this so that we could afford family vacations, but I’m also not saying that they were unaware of potential long-term benefits.

Oh, and I sacrificed my bed a few times for others of our clans seeking shelter.

185
silverdolphin  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:15:41pm

Gave them some money. If we are going to actually hear the truth about Paxton, it will come from new journalism sources like the Texas Tribune. Freedom is not free. While not everyone can provide financial support, I am in a postion to give some (Thank you Apple). I’m too old to march but I can support those that do. I am too infirm to fight, but I can support those that do.

And I can type so I do that as much as possible ;-)

186
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:27:45pm

lol

187
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:29:09pm
188
dat_said  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:30:08pm

re: #184 Barefoot Grin

Oh, and I sacrificed my bed a few times for others of our clans seeking shelter.

A few times is an understatement for me. “Your dad’s second cousin from Wilkie Saskatchewan is passing through. We’ll set up the cot in the furnace room. You’ll be fine.” “Your cousin’s fiancé has some training thing with Ducks Unlimited. We’ll set up the cot in the furnace room. You’ll be fine “. “A buddy of your dad’s and his wife from NY are passing thru on their way to Yellowstone. He hasn’t seen him since the army after WWII. We’ll set up the cot in the furnace room. You’ll be fine.”

I think I spent the night in the furnace room almost as often as I did in my own some summers.

189
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:35:48pm
190
Belafon  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:37:51pm

re: #155 gocart mozart

This is what I get:

What i find funny is the fist button under the query: “in light years”.

191
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:39:32pm

re: #175 Backwoods Sleuth

“Many people are saying…”

192
Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:43:28pm

re: #183 Barefoot Grin

We did a three-week trip from central Illinois up to Seattle, then through the Four Corners and back home and only stayed in hotels three nights. And we never camped. Another thing I should say: my parents spent many weeknights each year on personalized Christmas cards. They went through what they received the year before to make sure that there was a personal touch.

Now, I’m not saying that they cynically did this so that we could afford family vacations, but I’m also not saying that they were unaware of potential long-term benefits.

When Zed & I visit Wilkes-Barre we stay at the Best Western even though my son has a house with 7 bedrooms and my daughter has a house with 6 bedrooms. Their houses are noisy and loud (just like our house while they were growing up!) and we like quiet and privacy and having our own bathroom.

193
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:44:13pm
194
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:52:07pm

re: #187 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

It isn’t that they waited to bring charges, it’s that they drug their feet on investigating him, whether out of fear of being seen as “partisan” or (in the case of the FBI) because the closeted MAGAts in the ranks wanted to give him a pass for his crimes.

195
sagehen  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:53:54pm

“closeted”?

You keep using that word, but it does not mean what you think it means.

196
EPR-radar  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:55:09pm

re: #167 jaunte

Surprise, surprise, surprise. It turns out that “No Labels” is just another Republican ratfucking operation. That donor list is a Who’s who list of enemies of US democracy.

The GOP motto really should be changed to “those rats aren’t going to fuck themselves.”

197
BeenHereAwhile  Jul 19, 2023 • 3:57:16pm

Montana State University-Billings professor Paul Pope:

.  .  .  Villains are the heroes of their own stories… in their own minds, they do not think of themselves as evil.

“The hero fallacy paradox follows this concept: The villain believing their self to be the hero.”

The article also suggests that notion of heroic action in the 2021 riot was something suggested by Trump himself.

“As Donald Trump typically displays himself as the hero in most of his narrative statements, often presenting a ‘strongman’ metaphor, within the context of a ‘stolen election,’ Trump asks his followers to ‘stop the steal,’ which is both a call to action and placing them into the role of ‘hero’ to take control back from the conspirators,” Pope said in the article. “Therefore it can be argued that the hero fallacy paradox in this case was constructed by the narrator and not merely assumed by the January 6 attackers themselves.”

Looking at the language used by those participants, it was clear that many saw themselves as a next-generation of patriot, and many of the postings on social media had references to 1776.

“You can’t really look at how someone thinks, but we have their words. We talk the way we think, and speak the way we think,” Pope told the Daily Montanan. “I was shocked it was so brazen, but they saw their actions as patriotic.”

Pope points to the actions of the insurrection participants as evidence of their mindset. He said they didn’t act like many criminals who would otherwise make an effort to hide or conceal their crimes.

“Most of these narratives used by prosecutors against the insurrectionists were derived from their own social media accounts and text messages may indicate they viewed their actions with great positivity due to how freely they shared the evidence of their actions,” Pope wrote.

His research also suggests that confirmation bias, the process of reinforcing a belief even if it’s false by hearing or reading about it, played into the process.

“People tend to believe, remember and seek out information that supports their preexisting beliefs and values,” he said. “The more time people spend with selective sources that reinforced their preexisting views, the deeper those views become ingrained in their identity.”

In that way, Pope said what was surprising or shocking on Jan. 6 for most Americans was “inevitable.”

“Facts were irrelevant. It was an appeal to populism,” Pope said of Trump’s actions. “He was telling people what he wishes was true versus what is true. He talks about conspiracy or the deep state or a media plot, but he never defines it.”

Yet, even those veiled references, Pope said, allowed his supporters to fill in the blanks. For example, an exhortation to “stop the steal” implies halting the election certification, just as the slogan “Make America Great Again” doesn’t exactly reference what time period it refers to, allowing Trump supporters to “fill in the blanks.”

However, Pope’s research is not merely a description of what happened, or a larger insight into the motivations insurrectionists felt, it also points to thwarting a similar event in the future.

“This theory has some potential for predicting future acts of political violence,” his article concludes. “Prediction may be possible if individuals are expressing both violent ideation narratives combined with self-aggrandizing hero narratives.

“One person’s insurrectionist is another person’s patriot.”

dailymontanan.com

198
silverdolphin  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:00:03pm

Florida Schools to Teach Blacks Benefited from Slavery

The curriculum: Slavery just happened. No one specifically, including Florida, was responsible. Attacks against African-Americans after Reconstruction were mostly because of uppity Blacks. Blacks learned necessary skills as slaves that helped them as freed people. Florida never seceded fromt he US during the Civil War. Oh, and finally if the word “slave” is never used, then there never was slavery.

199
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:01:44pm

re: #196 EPR-radar

Surprise, surprise, surprise. It turns out that “No Labels” is just another Republican ratfucking operation. That donor list is a Who’s who list of enemies of US democracy.

The GOP motto really should be changed to “those rats aren’t going to fuck themselves.”

The problem with No Labels is that it’s not only a very obvious astroturf operation intended to siphon votes away from the Dems, but it also can’t find a candidate with national recognition that isn’t recognized as a total douche.

200
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:02:26pm

I received my new printer from China.
Both printers were the same price. The old one is from 2019.
You get a lot more for your money now. It self-levels, has a much larger build area than the old one has, and works via Wi-Fi, so I don’t have to walk over with a thumb drive.

My first test print is running now.

201
EPR-radar  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:03:23pm

re: #199 Targetpractice

The problem with No Labels is that it’s not only a very obvious astroturf operation intended to siphon votes away from the Dems, but it also can’t find a candidate with national recognition that isn’t recognized as a total douche.

That’s necessarily so. Only a total douche would run third party as some kind of “centrist” in 2024.

202
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:08:37pm
203
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:12:16pm

Mastodon

At least two dead, multiple injured, after shooting in Auckland building

At least two people have died and several others were injured after shooting erupted inside a building in central Auckland, New Zealand police said Thursday.

The shooting is “an isolated incident,” and “not a national security risk,” New Zealand police said on Twitter, adding that multiple injuries were reported and “and at this stage we can confirm two people have died.”

“The male offender is also deceased,” police added.

A man, covered in blood, was captured by CNN affiliate Newshub being carried from the scene by police. He was treated on site by an ambulance after gunshots were heard coming from the scene, it reported.

Police say the incident “unfolded after reports of a person discharging a firearm inside the site on lower Queen Street at around 7.22 a.m. (local time).” It added that the shooter, who was male, “moved through the building site and continued to discharge his firearm.”

When he reached the “upper levels of the building, the male has contained himself within the elevator shaft and our staff have attempted to engage with him.

“Further shots were fired from the male and he was located deceased a short time later. Details around what has exactly occurred are still emerging and Police will continue to provide updates around injuries and the circumstances,” authorities added.

204
Nerdy Fish  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:14:41pm

re: #203 Backwoods Sleuth

I’m surprised the Republicans haven’t yet put out a press release stating that this validates every single claim they’ve made about being pro-gun, because “libruls always cry about these things never happening in other countries, well, look! It just happened in New Zealand, SO THERE!!!”

205
jaunte  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:15:04pm

Michigan Republicans feature Kyle Rittenhouse for gun rights rally, attract approx. 100 doofuses and their emotional support tubes for an audience.
lansingstatejournal.com

206
BeachDem  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:25:28pm

re: #205 jaunte

Michigan Republicans feature Kyle Rittenhouse for gun rights rally, attract approx. 100 doofuses and their emotional support tubes for an audience.
lansingstatejournal.com

[Embedded content]

JFC—The Missouri McCloskey assholes were there as well, reinventing history as it were:

Mark McCloskey, who unsuccessfully ran for the U.S. Senate following the incident, detailed his experience at Wednesday’s gathering and credited his family’s weaponry with saving their lives.

“We didn’t have to fire a shot, but we held off a mob 350 to 500 people,” he said. “And that’s the value of the Second Amendment.”

207
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:26:38pm

re: #206 BeachDem

JFC—The Missouri McCloskey assholes were there as well, reinventing history as it were:

Mark McCloskey, who unsuccessfully ran for the U.S. Senate following the incident, detailed his experience at Wednesday’s gathering and credited his family’s weaponry with saving their lives.

“We didn’t have to fire a shot, but we held off a mob 350 to 500 people,” he said. “And that’s the value of the Second Amendment.”

Crazy people should not be allowed to own firearms.

208
Nerdy Fish  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:29:49pm

re: #207 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Crazy people should not be allowed to own firearms.

Well, ackshually, the plain text of the Second Amendment says nothing about being mentally stable, and the Founding Fathers were all a little bit mad, so any law requiring mental fitness tests to own firearms is unconstitutional. — Sam Alito, probably

209
Jay C  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:35:19pm

re: #206 BeachDem

“We didn’t have to fire a shot, but we held off a mob 350 to 500 people,” he said. “And that’s the value of the Second Amendment.”

GMAFB - The McCloskeys’ actions, IIRC, consisted of them standing in their driveway, waving guns around like assholes at a (notably peaceful) march going by the street in from their house. It was just a couple of All-American douchebags posturing, not the Storming Of The Fucking Bastille…..

210
Backwoods Sleuth  Jul 19, 2023 • 4:39:44pm

re: #205 jaunte

Michigan Republicans feature Kyle Rittenhouse for gun rights rally, attract approx. 100 doofuses and their emotional support tubes for an audience.
lansingstatejournal.com

[Embedded content]

this is just sad

211
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷  Jul 19, 2023 • 5:17:39pm

.. moved ..

212
Eventual Carrion  Jul 19, 2023 • 8:20:07pm

re: #6 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

Think of the children.

213
Eventual Carrion  Jul 19, 2023 • 8:26:31pm

re: #16 Dr Lizardo

Guess we just have to wait for an RMS Lusitania-type incident now.

I’ve got a .22, you got an arch duke?

214
Eventual Carrion  Jul 19, 2023 • 8:29:25pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

RFK Jr. now says he’s going to back US currency with, wait for it, Bitcoin.

Are we certain this guy isn’t just trolling everybody?

Glad he’s not crazy or anything.

215
lawhawk  Jul 20, 2023 • 5:08:12am

re: #94 KGxvi

I’ll be honest, I’m not much for state or national parks (other than beaches). I prefer to vacation in cities with really good restaurants (and preferably beaches). But there’s a not small part of me that does not like the idea of closing the public out of public lands. To borrow a line from TR:

You’d be surprised at how good the food can be at the national parks, especially the big name ones - Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Bryce, and Yosemite are well known for their dining rooms, and even Sequoia has a real good dining room. And the towns near to these parks have some amazing dining options.

That’s the balancing act - preserving for future Americans and limiting access to preserve the experience for current Americans intent on visiting. There’s capacity, but it should be spread out beyond just the core areas and peak times.

216
Eventual Carrion  Jul 20, 2023 • 6:01:23am

re: #153 Nojay UK

I’m not sure I understand it properly but it seems like the State of Missouri is telling the federal government that it doesn’t have enough competent people in charge to be able to administer the legal and equitable distribution of the funds on offer. It’s not actually like they’re saying “we don’t want this help”, I think.

$42.7 million should give you enough money to hire a couple competent people to do it.


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