Veritasium: What the Prisoner’s Dilemma Reveals About Life, the Universe, and Everything

Science • Views: 14,004

This is a video about the most famous problem in Game Theory, the Prisoner’s Dilemma.

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If you’re looking for a molecular modeling kit, try Snatoms – a kit I invented where the atoms snap together magnetically – ve42.co

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A massive thank you to Prof. Robert Axelrod and Prof. Steven Strogatz for their expertise and time.

To read more about Prof. Axelrod’s Passion for Cooperation visit: ve42.co

A massive thanks to the wonderful Nicky Case. Nicky’s “The Evolution of Trust” game was a huge inspiration for this video. We highly recommend you play this excellent game yourself, over at: ncase.me

A huge thank you to those who helped us understand and fact check different parts of this topic - Dr. Christian Hilbe, Dr. Vincent Knight, Dr. Jelena Grujic, Prof. Andreas Diekmann, and Dr. Alexander Stewart.

Click to Reveal

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References:
Excellent game on the evolution of trust by Nicky Case - ve42.co
Summary of Axelrod’s work by This Place -
How to outsmart the Prisoner’s Dilemma by TED-Ed -
Tit for Tat by radiolab - ve42.co
The Golden Rule by radiolab - ve42.co
Axelrod, R. (1984). The Evolution of Cooperation.
Dawkins, R. (2016). The selfish gene. Oxford university press.
Poundstone, W. (1992). Prisoner’s Dilemma. William Poundstone.
Nowak, M. A., & Highfield, R. (2011). Supercooperators. Edinburgh: Canongate.
Binmore, K. (2007). Game theory: a very short introduction. OUP Oxford.
Northrup, L. & Rock, D. (1966). The Detection of Joe I. - ve42.co
Prisoner’s dilemma, Wikipedia - ve42.co
Prisoner’s Dilemma, Stanford - ve42.co
Flood, M. M. (1952). Some experimental games. - ve42.co
Historical nuclear weapons stockpiles, Wikipedia - ve42.co
Goodwin, I. (1998). The Price of Victory in Cold War - ve42.co
Cold war: How it happened. - ve42.co
Axelrod, R. (1980). Effective choice in the prisoner’s dilemma. Journal of conflict resolution, 24(1), 3-25. - ve42.co
Axelrod, R. (1980). More effective choice in the prisoner’s dilemma. Journal of conflict resolution, 24(3), 379-403. - ve42.co
Axelrod, R., & Hamilton, W. D. (1981). The evolution of cooperation. science, 211(4489), 1390-1396. ve42.co
Stanislav Petrov, Wikipedia - ve42.co
Wu, J., & Axelrod, R. (1995). How to cope with noise in the iterated prisoner’s dilemma. Journal of Conflict resolution, 39(1), 183-189. - ve42.co
INF Treaty - ve42.co
START Treaties - ve42.co
START I, Wikipedia - ve42.co

Images & Video:
RAND Historical images via rand.org - ve42.co
Golden Balls -
Zotti, G., et al. (2021). The Simulated Sky: Stellarium for Cultural Astronomy Research - ve42.co
Newspapers from 1980s via newspapers.com – ve42.co
Decommisioned nuke image via The Moscow Times - ve42.co
Soviet inspection image via Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists - ve42.co
Decommissioning nuclear weapon via ShareAmerica - ve42.co

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Special thanks to our Patreon supporters:
Adam Foreman, Amadeo Bee, Anton Ragin, Balkrishna Heroor, Bernard McGee, Bill Linder, Burt Humburg, Dave Kircher, Diffbot, Evgeny Skvortsov, Gnare, Jesse Brandsoy, John H. Austin, Jr., john kiehl, Josh Hibschman, Juan Benet, KeyWestr, Lee Redden, Marinus Kuivenhoven, Mario Bottion, Max Maladino, Meekay, meg noah, Michael Krugman, Paul Peijzel, Richard Sundvall, Sam Lutfi, Stephen Wilcox, Tj Steyn, TTST, Ubiquity Ventures

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Directed by Casper Mebius
Written by Casper Mebius, Derek Muller, Petr Lebedev, and Ashley Hamer
Additional research & fact checking by Gregor Čavlović
Edited by Peter Nelson
Animated by Fabio Albertelli, Ivy Tello and Alondra Vitae
Illustrations by Jakub Misiek
Filmed by Derek Muller
Produced by Casper Mebius, Derek Muller, Gregor Čavlović and Han Evans

Additional video/photos supplied by Getty Images
Music from Epidemic Sound
Thumbnail by Peter Sheppard

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239 comments
1
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:17:59pm

This video is freaking great. One of the best explorations of the Prisoner’s Dilemma I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen more than a few, because I am a nerd.

2
teleskiguy  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:20:36pm

Boomer on a groomer?

3
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:21:29pm

re: #2 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Boomer on a groomer?

POPE ON A SLOPE

4
Vicious Babushka  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:27:05pm

re: #2 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Boomer on a groomer?

The Schuss of the Fisherman

5
Vicious Babushka  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:29:10pm

Mastodon

6
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:30:33pm

From below, regarding the 2000 lb Mk 84 eing used by Israel:

re: #82 goddamnedfrank

And that doesn’t properly describe the situation because hundred of those bombs are 2000 lb mk 84s and a 2000 lb mk 84 bomb is described as generally having a lethal radius of up to 360 meters, which equal 407150.4 square meters or 100.61 acres.

Dropping that shit in the most densely inhabited region on Earth is one hell of a choice.

“No Safe Ground…” - How Israel Used 2,000-Pound Bombs In Gaza: Reports

This includes info from the NYT and CNN reports. Also mentions how shrapnel from a 2000 lb bomb spread the destruction even further. Lethal area has a radius of 400 yards.

And it had some information I had not connected with before. Which led me to horrifying calculations.

The article says we have shipped over 5000 (actually over 5400 according to other sources) of the Mk 84 since the war started. With a lethal radius of 400 yards (0.16 square miles destroyed with 1 bomb) , this means (if I have calculated correctly) that only about 870 of thse bombs would destroy every inch of Gaza (141 sq. miles)!

And we have sold over 5400 since the war started. Since Israel likely had some of these before the war started, I have to wonder about consequences? They easily have enough to render Gaza a moonscape, without using any other type of munition. (We have also sent over 5000 Mk-82 - 500 lb - with a lethal blast radius of about 90 yards. Along with a lot of smart bombs.)

Israel’s apparent response to questions about civilian deaths caused by these bombs, is that they will look into this “later”, that the “priority” now is “destroying Hamas”. The only US response I saw, an unofficial one, was:

“It certainly appears that (Israel’s) tolerance for civilian harm compared to expected operational benefits is significantly different than what we would accept as the US,” Larry Lewis, a former senior advisor to the US State Department on the subject of civilian casualties.

Pretty passive framing. Most of the official response is that we are asking Israel to be careful. I am very afraid that such doomsday munitions under the control of a right-wing authoritarian government headed by an alleged criminal will be used in horrifying fashion. If they have not already. What are the real checks on this?

7
teleskiguy  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:31:56pm

re: #4 Vicious Babushka

The Schuss of the Fisherman

Telemark skiing the wrong way on a snowboard, looks like to me. And yeah, he’s going fishing!

8
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:37:18pm

I wish I could still feel the child-like joy I felt when I encountered the “how is babby formed” meme for the first time.

9
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:39:25pm

Mastodon

10
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:40:15pm

I agree with that review. Pretty but vacant.

11
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:40:55pm

But they do have some REALLY BIG GUNS.

12
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:42:35pm

Could the Dam Possibly Break?

The release of the Michigan tapes this week got me thinking about this. Why are they just coming out now and who is doing the leaking?

Well, it seems to me that a dam that starts slowly leaking then increases over time might have a larger effect than a dam break all at once early on. That is, the drip-drip-drip of new information will have an increasing effect on Trump’s electability than a release all of once in 2022 would. When he would have a chance to recover.

A trickle rather than a wave? Death by 1000 leaks?

Most of this informaiton was known to the Jan 6 committee and likely the DOJ. I do not expect the DOJ to be leaking stuff but would members of the Jan 6. committee?

Maybe. If this theory is correct, and that we might see increasingly harmful leaks about crimes Trump may have committed, then life could be very interesting by the GOP convention.

13
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:51:05pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I agree with that review. Pretty but vacant.

Yep, it really demonstrates the Netflix curse - they do not seem to pay for the effort to get a script doctor in there to tighten things up, especially the third act. So they have great ideas with execution that needs work. Especially high concept stuff. (anima excepts as those seem to be awesome like Blue Eyed Samurai.

I compare this with something on Apple TV+ that is also high concept - Let’s mashup John Wick with National Lampoon’s Vacation - The Family Plan.

It was not too far outside the lines but was a pleasant voyage with some third act surprises and resolutions that were unexpected. Some nice call backs and it made Wahlberg likable in ways I had never seen before. Not the widest range for an actor but he did a nice job here, particularly playing off of MIchelle Monaghan (who I love in anything). the kids were well cast (acted like real kids at some points but they each had their own personalities that wer enot there to set up jokes) and there were some very nice familial interactions (ie like the parents actually want and have sex).

Not a great movie but a pleasant one. I’d watch a sequel.

14
Charles Johnson  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:51:19pm

I actually thought Rebel Moon might be more than OK after seeing the trailer, but no, it is not the next Star Wars, I am sad to report.

15
Captain Ron  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:51:38pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

I wish I could still feel the child-like joy I felt when I encountered the “how is babby formed” meme for the first time.

I felt that way about two Fark events. The Pickle Incident and the Psycho Calamari Hosebeast story.

16
goddamnedfrank  Dec 23, 2023 • 5:59:50pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

This video is freaking great. One of the best explorations of the Prisoner’s Dilemma I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen more than a few, because I am a nerd.

Good video, my only wish is that they had bothered to go deeper into the life of Tit for Tat’s author, Anatol Rapoport, because it’s extremely relevant:

According to Thomas Homer-Dixon in the Toronto Globe and Mail, Rapoport “became anti-militarist quite soon after World War II. The idea of military values became anathema”. He was a leading organizer of the first teach-ins against the Vietnam War at the University of Michigan, a model that spread rapidly throughout North America. He told at a teach-in: “By undertaking the war against Vietnam, the United States has undertaken a war against humanity…This war we shall not win”. (Ann Arbor News, April 1967). He said he was an abolitionist, rather than a total pacifist: “I’m for killing the institution of war”. In 1968, he signed the “Writers and Editors War Tax Protest” pledge, vowing to refuse tax payments in protest against the Vietnam War.[12]

Rapoport returned to the University of Toronto to become the founding (and unpaid)[citation needed] Professor of Peace and Conflict Studies programme, working with George Ignatieff and Canada’s Science for Peace organization. As its sole professor at the start, he used a rigorous, interdisciplinary approach to the study of peace, integrating mathematics, politics, psychology, philosophy, science, and sociology. His main concern was to legitimize peace studies as a worthy academic pursuit. The Trudeau Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies continued to flourish at the University of Toronto under the leadership of Thomas Homer-Dixon, and, from 2008, under Ron Levi. When Rapoport began, there was one (unpaid) professor and twelve students. In 2007, there were three paid professors and ninety students.[13]

Rapoport’s students report that he was an engaged and inspiring professor who captured their attention, imagination and interest with his wide-ranging knowledge, passion for the subject, good humor, kind and generous spirit, attentiveness to student concerns, and animated teaching style.[14]

In 1981 Rapoport co-founded the international non-governmental organization Science for Peace. He was recognized in the 1980s for his contribution to world peace through nuclear conflict restraint via his game theoretic models of psychological conflict resolution. He won the Lentz International Peace Research Prize in 1976. Professor Rapoport was also a member of the editorial board of the Journal of Environmental Peace published by the International Innovation Projects at the University of Toronto.

17
Patricia Kayden  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:00:10pm

18
ipsos  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:00:11pm

re: #4 Vicious Babushka

The Schuss of the Fisherman

Didn’t say what day this was taken, but if it was last week, it could have been…

The Pontiff on Yontiff

19
teleskiguy  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:07:03pm

bsky.app

20
Patricia Kayden  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:17:35pm

21
goddamnedfrank  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:18:15pm

re: #19 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

bsky.app

‘sign in with openai’ is genuinely hilarious from a security perspective.

Like, sure, I can’t wait to hand all control over authenticating who the fuck I am to an engine explicitly designed to enact theft on a global scale.

22
Vicious Babushka  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:20:13pm

Mastodon

23
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:27:18pm

So the burning question now becomes—will the Michigan AG subpoena Ronna ROMNEY McDaniel and have her appear before a Grand Jury along with…TRUMP????

24
Rightwingconspirator  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:32:26pm

re: #6 silverdolphin

I am very afraid that such doomsday munitions under the control of a right-wing authoritarian government headed by an alleged criminal will be used in horrifying fashion. If they have not already. What are the real checks on this?

They are gone.

I started in a very pro Israel position. Then and now, I feel the Palestinians need to be free from the oppressions of Israel, and Hamas. Not too sure about the order there. But clearly this is the rock and hard place they live in.

Clearly Bibi is indulging in the most life-taking and generally destructive tactics he can get away with. I can see the tactical dilemma by rockets aimed at Te Aviv fired from deeply dense civilian neighborhoods. Israels military now is torturing the Palestinians to force Hamas to give it up. But Hamas don’t care. They like the pressure on Israel, even at that price.

I think the Palestinians are caught in the worst place possible, with no good answers in sight at all.

Just IMHO. But I work with people from over there of every nation/culture. At my work, they put up Arab news channels. Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs, Armenians from seemingly all over… Had long talks with some of them.

25
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:37:39pm

A Christmas Tree Cluster Of Stars In Space

NASA’s Chandra X-Ray Observatory images of a cluster of young stars in space were rotated and colored to look like a Christmas tree.

weather.com

26
teleskiguy  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:42:41pm

Steven’s Cat (Live at Red Rocks)

27
Dangerman  Dec 23, 2023 • 6:45:20pm

Sound up!

28
Dangerman  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:07:21pm

Yes it’s complicated
And perspective matters

29
BeenHereAwhile  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:23:36pm

Is this guy a troll?
I got curious and searched 4 roast hazelnut recipes at random on Duck Duck Go.
Three sites suggested oven temp @ 350 & one @ 355.

Mastodon

30
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:35:25pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I agree with that review. Pretty but vacant.

It’s hard to throw a series like that together if you don’t have a well developed story line to follow. If the writers can fill a few gaps and define relationships and histories between characters that the audience can believe then it’ll have a chance.

31
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:38:22pm

Fuck…that sucks.

Mastodon

32
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:39:04pm

The Veritasium video has a link to an online implementation of the prisoner’s dilemma. After the first round I did ok:

the evolution of trust, after the first game
33
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:40:59pm

re: #12 silverdolphin

The deep pockets in the GOP machinery want Haley, not Trump.

34
Dangerman  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:42:21pm

I’ve just this minute read for the first time who Grunthos the Flatulent is, er was, or will be. Whatever. That’s not the point. I now get it.

I’m a late bloomer.

35
goddamnedfrank  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:45:18pm

re: #32 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The Veritasium video has a link to an online implementation of the prisoner’s dilemma. After the first round I did ok:

[Embedded content]

Another thing I wish the video had gotten into is how diagnosed psychopaths and professional bank traders perform in the Prisoner’s Dilemma game vs control groups, and what that says about the most active group operating in our market economy:

In a prior study psychopathic individuals showed a diminished level
of cooperativeness but realized higher individual rewards in a prisoner’s
dilemma game, compared with community controls. The present study
replicated this finding with professional bank traders, who exhibited less
cooperative behavior than both of the aforementioned groups (community
controls and psychopathic patients). While the bank traders did not ob-
tain a higher gain than the psychopathic individuals at an absolute level,
they maximized the discrepancy between their own profit and the yield
of their anonymous computerized gaming partner. The bank traders were
more prone than psychopathic patients to rely on strategies that con-
siderably harmed the profit of their gaming partners without necessarily
optimizing their own total profit. The community controls achieved the
same overall gain as traders and psychopaths. Unlike traders and psycho-
pathic patients, the normal controls balanced overall gains of themselves
and their game opponent, which led to the highest overall profit, whereas
the traders achieved the lowest overall profit.

36
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:47:22pm

re: #33 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The deep pockets in the GOP machinery want Haley, not Trump.

They should just release the pee tapes already. It’ll be fun watching MAGA faithfuls posting videos of themselves doing the same shit to show that Trump isn’t a freak.

37
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:49:10pm

re: #34 Dangerman

I’ve just this minute read for the first time who Grunthos the Flatulent is, er was, or will be. Whatever. That’s not the point. I now get it.

I’m a late bloomer.

You’re ahead of me.

38
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:50:19pm

re: #37 darthstar

You’re ahead of me.

Now I feel enlightened.

39
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:52:08pm

re: #24 Rightwingconspirator

Bibi and Hamas are playing their own version of a Prisoner’s game.

In this case, both benefit by being stuck in “defect” mode.

The examples shown in the Veritasium video only cover player A vs. player B simultaneously.

But if there is a player C, and both A and B know they can win everytime they defect against C, when all three play together, then A and B have no reason to cooperate with C.

In this case, C are the residents of Gaza who are not part of Hamas or who do not support Hamas.

Unfortunately for the Israelis, they are burning through their goodwill (in the few places it can be found, such as the US mainstream politicians) very quickly.

I have not come across anyone here who has explained Netanyahu’s end game to me.

If he thinks killing all Gaza residents is going to be a win, then I suspect that Israel is going to find itself in existential problems in the near term.

Eventually the backstop the US has at the UN will stop. As the body count keeps rising in Gaza, Biden is going to have to make a decision.

It already seems to me that Biden is counting on Trump being the nominee, that enough never-Trumpers can make up for the loss of the anti-Israel young people that will cost the Dems.

However, if Haley is the nominee and Bibi does go full genocide in Gaza, then the loss of Dem voters on this issue will cost Biden. Enough to lose the election? I don’t know.

Regardless, the loss of life is itself a tragedy that should take precedence over US politics.

40
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:55:04pm

re: #36 darthstar

They should just release the pee tapes already. It’ll be fun watching MAGA faithfuls posting videos of themselves doing the same shit to show that Trump isn’t a freak.

Of course, the longeer they wait the crazier he will get worrying. But f course, any tape they release he will just say is AI-generated and a fake.

41
sagehen  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:58:11pm

re: #40 silverdolphin

Of course, the longeer they wait the crazier he will get worrying. But f course, any tape they release he will just say is AI-generated and a fake.

Any tape that may exist is in Putin’s hands, and he has no intention of doing anything that will damage his asset.

42
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:58:29pm

Had dinner with my mom, my sister and her now gorgeous daughter who’s a singer-songwriter in Nashville and now going to law school as well, and of course my lovely wife.

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


It feels like only yesterday she came running out to see me as a toddler fresh out of the tub shouting, “Auntie Sean! Auntie Sean!” and I said, “Well, who’s naked?” and she poked her thumb in her chest and shouted, “Me!”

I was sad when she grew out of calling me auntie.

43
Semper Fi  Dec 23, 2023 • 7:59:04pm

re: #33 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The deep pockets in the GOP machinery want Haley, not Trump.

Just a few years ago I was concerned about Haley’s possibilities because I thought she could appear more “Presidential” than Clinton. However, she seems to have lost whatever I thought she had. (Actually, at the time, I was annoyed with HC…though she did get my vote)

44
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:01:40pm

re: #30 darthstar

My feeling is the super-hero movie generation have been robbed of movies that matter.

Both Marvel and DC have made $$$ making movies in which stories and people can be rewritten with the snap of a thumb (Thanos’ thumb!)

And watching TV/movie reactions on Youtube recently has made clear to me that young people, almost all of them, have no basis by which to judge a creation other than “special effects”.

That’s all they seem to care about.

For all the money put into small screen and big screen productions these days, the great majority of them are just derivative and empty.

45
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:04:28pm

re: #43 Semper Fi

Haley’s primary advantage is that she is not-Trump.

Here’s the bet the deep-pockets are making:
1) Trump will be convicted of at least one crime before the election;
2) Biden will be highly compromised (either because of age, or because of an anti-Israel movement in the Democratic Party that forces Biden to make a diplomatic move against Israel).

46
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:04:46pm

re: #43 Semper Fi

Join the club. I never liked HC as a presidential candidate. She was a very good Senator and would be running the show if she’d stayed in. And she was an excellent Secretary of State under President Obama. But she was a bad candidate to have run against Trump. If President Biden’s son hadn’t died of brain cancer we’d be coasting through his second term right now and the Democratic primary race would be his VP (it wouldn’t have been Harris in 2016) versus a crowded field.

47
Semper Fi  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:14:05pm

re: #46 darthstar

Join the club. I never liked HC as a presidential candidate. She was a very good Senator and would be running the show if she’d stayed in. And she was an excellent Secretary of State under President Obama. But she was a bad candidate to have run against Trump. If President Biden’s son hadn’t died of brain cancer we’d be coasting through his second term right now and the Democratic primary race would be his VP (it wouldn’t have been Harris in 2016) versus a crowded field.

My feelings exactly. I couldn’t have said it better.
Thank you.

48
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:15:45pm

re: #39 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Bibi and Hamas are playing their own version of a Prisoner’s game.

In this case, both benefit by being stuck in “defect” mode.

The examples shown in the Veritasium video only cover player A vs. player B simultaneously.

But if there is a player C, and both A and B know they can win everytime they defect against C, when all three play together, then A and B have no reason to cooperate with C.

In this case, C are the residents of Gaza who are not part of Hamas or who do not support Hamas.

Unfortunately for the Israelis, they are burning through their goodwill (in the few places it can be found, such as the US mainstream politicians) very quickly.

I have not come across anyone here who has explained Netanyahu’s end game to me.

If he thinks killing all Gaza residents is going to be a win, then I suspect that Israel is going to find itself in existential problems in the near term.

Eventually the backstop the US has at the UN will stop. As the body count keeps rising in Gaza, Biden is going to have to make a decision.

It already seems to me that Biden is counting on Trump being the nominee, that enough never-Trumpers can make up for the loss of the anti-Israel young people that will cost the Dems.

However, if Haley is the nominee and Bibi does go full genocide in Gaza, then the loss of Dem voters of this issue will cost Biden. Enough to lose the election? I don’t know.

Regardless, the loss of life is itself a tragedy that should take precedence over US politics.

If Bibi is just as maniacal next November as he is now, I fully expect Biden to have washed his hands of the Bibi government. I think he will be supporting others, such a retired general, Yair Golan. He was forced to leave active service because of a speech he gave on Holocaust Day where he said, in 2016,

If there is one thing that is scary in remembering the Holocaust, it is noticing horrific processes which developed in Europe - particularly in Germany - 70, 80, and 90 years ago, and finding remnants of that here (in Israel) among us in the year 2016.”

He is not a fan of the wesdt Bank settlements and is unhappy with the inaropriate rules of engagement the IDF is using.

He served in the Knesset as a member of the very left party, Meretz , and is a national hero because on Oct 7. he left his house, got his uniform and a gun and drove down to the battle area, rescuing several people from ther area. He supports a two state solution and wants to create a super-left party to balance Bibi. He wants to use economic incentives to get Palestinians to move away from violence, which I think is a good path, when it is appropriate. So if Biden starts to support him or other similar. even indirectly, our Progressives are going to be happy.

The latest UN vote mattered. Biden knows how to play this game better than anyone I have ever seen. I fully expect that by election day, almost all the progressives will return because of what he has done. I also have a halfway hope that the Saudis and the rest of the Araian Peninsula will be behind Biden.. And my dream that Bibi is gone.

49
Belafon  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:19:45pm

re: #46 darthstar

Join the club. I never liked HC as a presidential candidate. She was a very good Senator and would be running the show if she’d stayed in. And she was an excellent Secretary of State under President Obama. But she was a bad candidate to have run against Trump. If President Biden’s son hadn’t died of brain cancer we’d be coasting through his second term right now and the Democratic primary race would be his VP (it wouldn’t have been Harris in 2016) versus a crowded field.

Do hundreds of Congressional Republicans suddenly die in your fantasy scenario?

50
Belafon  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:20:39pm

51
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:21:48pm

“Under the dark clouds of war” - photo by Patrick Jaracz - Unicef photo of the year.

52
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:27:45pm

re: #33 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The deep pockets in the GOP machinery want Haley, not Trump.

I simply fail to see how that will be a winning path for the GOP. The MAGA Republicans and bigots will not vote for a candidate who is not-Trump, is a female and is a South Asian-American. Without those 2 groups, the GOP coalition cannot hope for a majority. IMHO.

53
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:27:59pm

re: #44 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

My feeling is the super-hero movie generation have been robbed of movies that matter.

Both Marvel and DC have made $$$ making movies in which stories and people can be rewritten with the snap of a thumb (Thanos’ thumb!)

And watching TV/movie reactions on Youtube recently has made clear to me that young people, almost all of them, have no basis by which to judge a creation other than “special effects”.

That’s all they seem to care about.

For all the money put into small screen and big screen productions these days, the great majority of them are just derivative and empty.

The last ‘superhero’ movie I watched in the theater was the first ‘Wonder Woman’ and I paid a little extra for the ‘special effects surround sound seats’ that had speakers embedded in them. My wife and I felt like we were on a shitty 2 hour Space Mountain ride…the seats vibrated, lifted, tilted forward like you were going to be thrown off a cliff…it was all too much. Oh, and the plot was okay. I think she wound up in 1940s or 2010s USA and punched a few Nazis. I liked the scenes from the Island of hot women though…that place looked fun.

54
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:31:21pm

Oh yay, former guy is hanging himself by his own tiny testicles…Judge Roberts was playing 35 dimensional chess yesterday when he gave Trump excess confidence…

Mastodon

Mastodon

55
Romantic Heretic  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:34:27pm

re: #6 silverdolphin

I’m pretty sure Israel, or whoever is making the decisions, wants Gaza to be uninhabitable. This, they believe, will make that border of Israel safe forever.

They are, after a fashion, correct. The toll on human lives, both Palestinian and Israeli, is one they are willing to pay.

Sigh.

56
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:37:14pm

re: #44 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

My feeling is the super-hero movie generation have been robbed of movies that matter.

Both Marvel and DC have made $$$ making movies in which stories and people can be rewritten with the snap of a thumb (Thanos’ thumb!)

And watching TV/movie reactions on Youtube recently has made clear to me that young people, almost all of them, have no basis by which to judge a creation other than “special effects”.

That’s all they seem to care about.

For all the money put into small screen and big screen productions these days, the great majority of them are just derivative and empty.

As it always has been. A goodnnarrative matters. The first Marvel movies did so well, IMHO, because they were really one long arc. I mean, several of the Capt’n America movies seemed like Avengers. And vice versa. When that arc was finished and Thanos was dead. No one really cared about the next step. And they just seemed worthless since the Multiverse changes ALL.

Barbie has hardly any special effects that were not practical, like in the old days. And almost half the people who saw it were under 22. And Oppenheimer also had very few CGI effects. Both did really well. SO I think a good script always wins.

Too often, high concept ideas (Let’s get all the various Spidermen or Batmen) together in one movie and have them battle their greatest enemies) are not a path to success. Having Batman fight Superman neesd to have a good foundation, something the movie ignored.

57
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:38:37pm

re: #52 silverdolphin

The deep pockets will sacrifice the WH to keep the Senate locked up.

If Trump is the nominee, and is convicted (at least in the court of public opinion), a motivated anti-Trump Dem base can flip some Senate seats.

As I’ve pointed out before, suppress the vote is the goal of the deep pockets.

The fewer people that turnout the better it usually ends up for the GOP.

58
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:41:01pm

re: #55 Romantic Heretic

I’m pretty sure Israel, or whoever is making the decisions, wants Gaza to be uninhabitable. This, they believe, will make that border of Israel safe forever.

They are, after a fashion, correct. The toll on human lives, both Palestinian and Israeli, is one they are willing to pay.

Sigh.

I worry you are right. My hope is that a democracy, which Israel still is, will step back from that abyss. Just as I beleive we will.

If not, I fear it will be the end of those democracies and the destruction of the global economy to total that humanity will never be able to recover.

59
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:41:18pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That description seems to fit what a lot of Fallout fans fear the new series by Amazon will be, composed primarily of CGI and special effects with a wafer-thin plot used to justify it all. Overall, it feels like Netflix has decided that, with virtually every holder of film and TV copyrights deciding to start their own streaming services, their future lies in “content creation” and so are churning out as much “content” as they can in rapid succession in the hopes that enough will stick around to start turning a profit.

60
austin_blue  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:43:07pm

I’m staying out of the Israeli/Gaza conversation for now.

I’m going to sleep. Night all, sweet Scaly Dreams.

I hope you had a lovely Christmas Adam today and hope you will have a lovely Christmas Eve tomorrow.

Christmas Adam always comes before Christmas Eve and leaves her unsatisfied.

61
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:43:45pm

re: #55 Romantic Heretic

I’m pretty sure Israel, or whoever is making the decisions, wants Gaza to be uninhabitable. This, they believe, will make that border of Israel safe forever.

They are, after a fashion, correct. The toll on human lives, both Palestinian and Israeli, is one they are willing to pay.

Sigh.

Oh, they want it inhabited, they would just prefer it to be Isareli settlers whose need for “breathing room” justifies yet more military action to “pacify” the natives.

62
Romantic Heretic  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:44:04pm

re: #35 goddamnedfrank

That could easily be a metaphor for our present economy.

And Donald Trump.

63
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:44:13pm

re: #57 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The deep pockets will sacrifice the WH to keep the Senate locked up.

If Trump is the nominee, and is convicted (at least in the court of public opinion), a motivated anti-Trump Dem base can flip some Senate seats.

As I’ve pointed out before, suppress the vote is the goal of the deep pockets.

The fewer people that turnout the better it usually ends up for the GOP.

Good point about the Senate/House. but I still hope that it will be more of a crapshoot without the MAGA Republicans and bigots. It will take a lot of work. I am not sure that voter suppression efforts will work as well as they have in the past, with so many people motivated over issues (abortion, marijuana, student debt). It is possible they will suppress to many of their own votes (ie mail-in votes and early voting).

64
Semper Fi  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:44:34pm

re: #45 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Haley’s primary advantage is that she is not-Trump.

Here’s the bet the deep-pockets are making:
1) Trump will be convicted of at least one crime before the election;
2) Biden will be highly compromised (either because of age, or because of an anti-Israel movement in the Democratic Party that forces Biden to make a diplomatic move against Israel).

I’m counting on a conviction as well. Gotta be at least one, hopefully.
Yes, Biden is on shaky ground and I feel it can be helped. He appears to not have full control of his legs. They kinda flail(?) as he walks along rather than appearing sure-footed. Proper exercise can do much to improve this. The little bicycling he does cannot help as it’s too little.
I’m sorry. I guess I’m really in a mood…I don’t drink/drugs.
Just want this country to get back to who we are.

65
Patricia Kayden  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:51:14pm

66
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:52:38pm

re: #64 Semper Fi

Georgia. A Georgia conviction is state, not federal…so there will be an argument about whether someone slated to do time as a state prisoner can run for President…now we all know this would never happen in a sane country on a sane planet, but we’re dealing with neo-fascism with a healthy dose of fucked in the headedness added on these days.

So Trump gets convicted, but there’s nothing in the constitution that forbids a person convicted of a state felony from representing the federal democracy…why? Because the FRAMERS NEVER THOUGHT SUCH A CONDITION WAS FUCKING POSSIBLE. Or they would have said, “fuck it, let’s move back to England.”

67
Semper Fi  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:54:18pm

re: #66 darthstar

Georgia. A Georgia conviction is state, not federal…so there will be an argument about whether someone slated to do time as a state prisoner can run for President…now we all know this would never happen in a sane country on a sane planet, but we’re dealing with neo-fascism with a healthy dose of fucked in the headedness added on these days.

So Trump gets convicted, but there’s nothing in the constitution that forbids a person convicted of a state felony from representing the federal democracy…why? Because the FRAMERS NEVER THOUGHT SUCH A CONDITION WAS FUCKING POSSIBLE. Or they would have said, “fuck it, let’s move back to England.”

LoL

68
darthstar  Dec 23, 2023 • 8:56:41pm

re: #67 Semper Fi

Thank you for understanding. I’m going to bed now. Teri Kanefield has a few more posts on her thread I linked above. It’s worth a read. She’s a very bright person.

69
Semper Fi  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:00:21pm

Tomorrow is a big day for me.
I’m out.

70
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:06:16pm

Inside The White House With President Joe Biden

From yesterday. The President shows the Oval Office and more to AD. Impressed by the things that he finds important. Such a 4 sculptures - MLK, RFK and Rosa Parks. The pleasant surprise is Cesar Chavez. I smiled with all the stuff he was giving to the crew - his challenge coin, chocolate chip cookies. And I loved his wall of pictures children sent him. Made me love him more.

He talked fine extemporaneously. Plus he seemed to walk just fine.

71
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:07:21pm

re: #54 darthstar

Oh yay, former guy is hanging himself by his own tiny testicles…Judge Roberts was playing 35 dimensional chess yesterday when he gave Trump excess confidence…

[Embedded content]

He really is demanding the courts chisel Nixon’s “It’s not illegal when you’re the president” into the law books.

72
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:11:50pm

re: #67 Semper Fi

LoL

In truth, there is nothing in the Constitution to prevent someone in prison from running for office. Eugene V. Debs in 1920, and Lyndon LaRouche in 1992, both ran while in prison. And Joe Exotic, of Tiger King fame, who is serviong a 21 year sentence is running right now. As a Democrat.

73
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:12:28pm

An oldie but favorite pair of actors from the 1990s:

Christmas Shopping at Babylon 5



..

74
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:14:41pm

re: #64 Semper Fi

At Biden’s age I propose that a mix of 1) Feldenkrais method, and 2) swimming, will be the best thing he can do to remain limber and mobile.

True for all of us.

Americans tend so sit too much, and even worse, sit in cars.

It’s bad for your health.

75
Captain Ron  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:15:39pm
76
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:16:40pm

By the way, if you want to watch sparks fly from a MAGAt’s ears, get them to explain to you over Christmas dinner how Trump “winning” his second impeachment means he can’t be charged for anything connected to 1/6 because of “double jeopardy,” but Bill Clinton could be punished by the courts for perjury despite the Senate likewise “acquitting” him for such.

77
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:21:23pm

No thanks, Sleazy E! I’ll stick with the weekly Ozempic shot.

Elon Musk Wants You to Use Neuralink to Lose Weight. That’s a Bad Idea.

Please, don’t put a chip in your skull to shed pounds.

thedailybeast.com

78
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:25:32pm

Cateen playing live earlier tonight, some tunes for your seasonal enjoyment:

Youtube Video

..

79
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:27:02pm

re: #71 Targetpractice

He really is demanding the courts chisel Nixon’s “It’s not illegal when you’re the president” into the law books.

I’m thinking the Supremes may have finessed the ruff or ruffed the finesse. In bridge, it is essentially a path to win by forcing one of the opposing players to decide what to play. But, because of the situation, no matter what they pay, it is very likely that the finessing hand will gain win. Without being the one who has to make the decision to play.

Here, the Supremes played it back to the Appeals Court. Which is moving fast and will have a quick decision. So whatever the Appeals Court choses, the Supremes have a better decision than if they had taken it directly.

If the Supremes agree with the Appeals, they simply deny certiorari . So the Appeals Court decision ends the matter. Or, if enough disagree, they can grant cert and move on.

But to do so they will for sure have to have 5 judges who disagree.

So, in either case, procedures look like they have been followed, without the Supremes being on the historical hook. I think it is very likely that the Appeals COurt will say Trump does not have total immunity.

And I think it is likely that at least 5 Supremes will agree. Hope so.

80
sagehen  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:28:31pm

re: #55 Romantic Heretic

I’m pretty sure Israel, or whoever is making the decisions, wants Gaza to be uninhabitable. This, they believe, will make that border of Israel safe forever.

They are, after a fashion, correct. The toll on human lives, both Palestinian and Israeli, is one they are willing to pay.

Sigh.

Before 1973, wasn’t Gaza part of Egypt? And when Israel gave back the Sinai, but Egypt agreed they could keep Gaza, why didn’t all those Egyptian citizens go to actual Egypt? (or did Egypt leave them there on purpose just to be a headache? I’m pretty sure that was Jordan’s rationale for not taking in all the Jordanians when they relinquished their claim on the West Bank.)

81
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:29:29pm

re: #78 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I started following him a few years ago, before his subscriber count exploded. He’s been enjoying some well earned success.

One of his first videos was when he was much younger, playing one of those eye-hand coordination games, but using only one hand:

[jubeat copious] 【片手】 Far east nightbird(EXT) EXCELLENT | Right-hand play

..

Amazing. Some people are just born to play the piano.

A few years later he was doing this:

【SDVX】Preserved Valkyria【Piano Ver.】


..

82
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:33:18pm

re: #74 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

At Biden’s age I propose that a mix of 1) Feldenkrais method, and 2) swimming, will be the best thing he can do to remain limber and mobile.

True for all of us.

Americans tend so sit too much, and even worse, sit in cars.

It’s bad for your health.

I am fighting back against a autoimmune disease that deposits bone in cartilage, etc. I have pain along the path nerves take as the exit the spinal column and run down the outside of my leg. Spinal rotations and biking helped a tremendous amount (along with some chiropractic therapy). Mostly by helping the nerves glide better along the path. I can now begin to re-invigorate my leg muscles to I can walk better without pain. I hope.

I am looking to join the nearby Y which has pool therapy for people with arthritis and also have recombent bikes to ride. Hope I can continue my path upwards. (I love swimming and hope to get strong enough that I can do some laps sometime in 2024.)

83
sagehen  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:35:06pm

re: #74 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

At Biden’s age I propose that a mix of 1) Feldenkrais method, and 2) swimming, will be the best thing he can do to remain limber and mobile.

The White House doesn’t have a swimming pool. They used to, but Nixon replaced it with a bowling alley. Asshole.

84
Dr Lizardo  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:41:01pm

re: #56 silverdolphin

A good script matters. Look at the recent critical and commercial success of Godzilla Minus One. And all on a budget of $15 million USD.

And it’s on the Oscar shortlist for Best Visual Effects to boot. The first time a Godzilla flick has been nominated for an Academy Award, to the best of my recollection.

85
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:44:17pm

re: #76 Targetpractice

By the way, if you want to watch sparks fly from a MAGAt’s ears, get them to explain to you over Christmas dinner how Trump “winning” his second impeachment means he can’t be charged for anything connected to 1/6 because of “double jeopardy,” but Bill Clinton could be punished by the courts for perjury despite the Senate likewise “acquitting” him for such.

I know the rhetorical answer but doubt any MAGA Republican would figure it out.

Click to Reveal

Clinton was a civil charge not criminal. And it was for contempt which is not what he was impeached for. So there really was no double jeopardy. And thus it is not relevant. But I do not figure any MAGA Republican would understand that.

And Trump was charged with inciting an insurrection. He has not been charged with that in any other proceeding so there is no double jeopardy.

I love you example though and may try it. Like a bad Star Trek computer, they may not be able to rationalize any kind of response.

86
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:47:20pm

re: #82 silverdolphin

Glad to hear you are pro-active in taking steps.

I still recommend studying Feldenkrais. A good practitioner will have minimal woo, as Feldenkrais himself was primarily into anatomy and movement. Kinesiology is the foundation.

Learning how to walk is important too.

That may sound weird to people, but most Americans walk very awkwardly. Comes from our sitting habits and the evil of cars.

87
Mattand  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:49:26pm

re: #46 darthstar

Join the club. I never liked HC as a presidential candidate. She was a very good Senator and would be running the show if she’d stayed in. And she was an excellent Secretary of State under President Obama. But she was a bad candidate to have run against Trump. If President Biden’s son hadn’t died of brain cancer we’d be coasting through his second term right now and the Democratic primary race would be his VP (it wouldn’t have been Harris in 2016) versus a crowded field.

So bad a candidate, she won the popular vote by close to 3 million.

88
retired cynic  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:51:44pm

re: #87 Mattand

So bad a candidate, she won the popular vote by close to 3 million.

Thumbs up, sir! Thank you! (And that with Russia, and Emails, and Benghazi, and Comey, and 30 years of anti-Clinton media abuse.)

89
danarchy  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:52:24pm

re: #79 silverdolphin

I’m thinking the Supremes may have finessed the ruff or ruffed the finesse. In bridge, it is essentially a path to win by forcing one of the opposing players to decide what to play. But, because of the situation, no matter what they pay, it is very likely that the finessing hand will gain win. Without being the one who has to make the decision to play.

Here, the Supremes played it back to the Appeals Court. Which is moving fast and will have a quick decision. So whatever the Appeals Court choses, the Supremes have a better decision than if they had taken it directly.

If the Supremes agree with the Appeals, they simply deny certiorari . So the Appeals Court decision ends the matter. Or, if enough disagree, they can grant cert and move on.

But to do so they will for sure have to have 5 judges who disagree.

So, in either case, procedures look like they have been followed, without the Supremes being on the historical hook. I think it is very likely that the Appeals COurt will say Trump does not have total immunity.

And I think it is likely that at least 5 Supremes will agree. Hope so.

I think the key to this case isn’t going to be immunity per se, but wether what was being done was in any way an official act. I think it is actually important for presidents to have immunity from prosecution for official acts. ie. I don’t think a prosecutor should be able to charge Obama for murder because he ordered a drone strike on a US citizen who also happened to be a terrorist.

I don’t see how you can argue that what Trump was doing was in any way part his official duties, but that will be the trick for the defense.

90
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:53:32pm

re: #83 sagehen

The White House doesn’t have a swimming pool. They used to, but Nixon replaced it with a bowling alley. Asshole.

They do have a swimming pool. It is outside on the south side. Put in by Ford.

However at 15 m long, it is not the best for laps. The VP residence has a larger pool, closer to 25 m that is great for laps. Biden loved the pool and, according to a salacious book, enjoyed swimming in the nude.

91
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:55:42pm

re: #86 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Glad to hear you are pro-active in taking steps.

I still recommend studying Feldenkrais. A good practitioner will have minimal woo, as Feldenkrais himself was primarily into anatomy and movement. Kinesiology is the foundation.

Learning how to walk is important too.

That may sound weird to people, but most Americans walk very awkwardly. Comes from our sitting habits and the evil of cars.

I’m still having to use a cane but hope that now being able to move I can lose some weight and make the cane unnecessary. I mostly walk weird now because I do not want to fall. I figure that is one reason that people think Biden is halting when he walks. I think he is just being careful.

92
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 9:57:48pm

re: #89 danarchy

I think the key to this case isn’t going to be immunity per se, but wether what was being done was in any way an official act. I think it is actually important for presidents to have immunity from prosecution for official acts. ie. I don’t think a prosecutor should be able to charge Obama for murder because he ordered a drone strike on a US citizen who also happened to be a terrorist.

I don’t see how you can argue that what Trump was doing was in any way part his official duties, but that will be the trick for the defense.

I totally agree. HIs official acts do not include conspiracy to overturn an election result. No way was he just investigating, since there were literally thousands of people doing just that. I mean, no way can they state that an insurrection is part of his job.

93
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:04:54pm

re: #87 Mattand

So bad a candidate, she won the popular vote by close to 3 million.

I think Harris was limited in some ways as VP in the similar way Obama was limited as President. Could not be angry.

The main political job of a VP is to act as an attack dog for the President. But Angry Black Woman was not something even many Democrats would accept. It hampered her. Hard to attack without anger. This coupled with the fact that she had to be stuck in DC to break so many ties slowed her down.

But, in many ways because of Dodd, an angry woman, whether Black or not, is a very strong image. accepted by a lot of people. And I have seen Harris in some recent speeches simply be ferocious on abortion and other topics. Using the pastor cadences Obama was so good at.

But will the media realize the change or stay with the narrative? I am hopeful she will break through the narrative.

94
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:06:27pm

re: #79 silverdolphin

I’m thinking the Supremes may have finessed the ruff or ruffed the finesse. In bridge, it is essentially a path to win by forcing one of the opposing players to decide what to play. But, because of the situation, no matter what they pay, it is very likely that the finessing hand will gain win. Without being the one who has to make the decision to play.

Here, the Supremes played it back to the Appeals Court. Which is moving fast and will have a quick decision. So whatever the Appeals Court choses, the Supremes have a better decision than if they had taken it directly.

If the Supremes agree with the Appeals, they simply deny certiorari . So the Appeals Court decision ends the matter. Or, if enough disagree, they can grant cert and move on.

But to do so they will for sure have to have 5 judges who disagree.

So, in either case, procedures look like they have been followed, without the Supremes being on the historical hook. I think it is very likely that the Appeals COurt will say Trump does not have total immunity.

And I think it is likely that at least 5 Supremes will agree. Hope so.

I suspect the bolded will end up being the core of any filing for certiorari, that the lower courts failed to sit around and agonize over the “very serious” issues brought up in Trump’s arguments and the SCOTUS bench needs to spend weeks or even months on them so their client gets a fair shake. Preferably holding things up until…oh…August (at the earliest) when the DOJ’s policy against actions that would adversely effect elections kicks in.

95
danarchy  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:16:53pm

re: #94 Targetpractice

I suspect the bolded will end up being the core of any filing for certiorari, that the lower courts failed to sit around and agonize over the “very serious” issues brought up in Trump’s arguments and the SCOTUS bench needs to spend weeks or even months on them so their client gets a fair shake. Preferably holding things up until…oh…August (at the earliest) when the DOJ’s policy against actions that would adversely effect elections kicks in.

Also I think there are built in delays that Trump can take advantage of which Jack Smith actually referenced in his SCOTUS petition. Like after the appeals court rules there is 45 days to request an en banc hearing, and then after the en banc hearing wether it is granted or not there is 90 days to request cert from the supreme court. So the Trump team can basically hold things up for 4 and a half months not including any of the time it actually takes for the courts to make their rulings.

96
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:20:44pm

re: #95 danarchy

Also I think there are built in delays that Trump can take advantage of which Jack Smith actually referenced in his SCOTUS petition. Like after the appeals court rules there is 45 days to request an en banc hearing, and then after the en banc hearing wether it is granted or not there is 90 days to request cert from the supreme court. So the Trump team can basically hold things up for 4 and a half months not including any of the time it actually takes for the courts to make their rulings.

Which I’ve no doubt they’ll use every second of, delaying their filings til 11:59pm on the nights of days 44 and 89 respectively.

97
Captain Ron  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:22:29pm
98
Belafon  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:22:50pm

re: #44 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

My feeling is the super-hero movie generation have been robbed of movies that matter.

Both Marvel and DC have made $$$ making movies in which stories and people can be rewritten with the snap of a thumb (Thanos’ thumb!)

And watching TV/movie reactions on Youtube recently has made clear to me that young people, almost all of them, have no basis by which to judge a creation other than “special effects”.

That’s all they seem to care about.

For all the money put into small screen and big screen productions these days, the great majority of them are just derivative and empty.

By that argument, we were all corrupted by Star Wars (I know there are critics that say we were).

Why do people forget that there have been sci-fi movies with special effect since the beginning (King Kong? War of the World’s? The Thing? Them? Raiders of the Lost Ark? Etc.) We’ve had sequels for quite a while now, and just like then, we have a whole bunch of non-special effects movies. The only thing Marvel introduced was multiple movies being related to each other.

As for what recent generations think of the movies, my kids, who are 18, 23, and 28, don’t really go out and watch movies unless my wife and I are going. It seems to me that the mix of movie goers at the current age pretty much mach what it was like when we were young adults: most people going to popcorn flicks for the entertainment, the occasional ecletic movie, and a few going to all of the artsy ones.

99
Belafon  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:25:24pm

re: #84 Dr Lizardo

A good script matters. Look at the recent critical and commercial success of Godzilla Minus One. And all on a budget of $15 million USD.

And it’s on the Oscar shortlist for Best Visual Effects to boot. The first time a Godzilla flick has been nominated for an Academy Award, to the best of my recollection.

And the movie that cleaned up at the Oscar’s last year, Everything Everywhere All at Once, had a $25M budget.

100
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:27:51pm

re: #94 Targetpractice

I suspect the bolded will end up being the core of any filing for certiorari, that the lower courts failed to sit around and agonize over the “very serious” issues brought up in Trump’s arguments and the SCOTUS bench needs to spend weeks or even months on them so their client gets a fair shake. Preferably holding things up until…oh…August (at the earliest) when the DOJ’s policy against actions that would adversely effect elections kicks in.

That could very well be true. Of course, that opens up Alvin Black’s criminal trial against Trump, I believe. But it might play out how I described.

I think some on the Court may be a little concerned about charges of corruption (ie Roberts and Kavanaugh) They have done little to help Trump recently. And the decision to not support conversion therapy in the Washington state case was surprising. I hope the so called majority may well only hold for fiscal issues now. Politcal ones may see a real shift.

Perhaps we have hit the same position the FDR SC found itself, based on corruption and loss in faith of the Court. A switch in time saved nine. Owen Roberts ended the horrible Lochner era Court (arguably just a little worse than the current court) supposedly to save independence of the Court and its integrity. In fact, it was not due to anything FDR did to pack the courts but to finally Roberts being convinced that there were some things the Feds should get involved in.

Here, maybe they have realized that the Dodd decision will destroy the GOP and realize they need to pull back to remain relevant.

Maybe a new Roberts will end the horrible court that started with Gove v Bush.

101
Dr Lizardo  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:29:43pm

re: #99 Belafon

And the movie that cleaned up at the Oscar’s last year, Everything Everywhere All at Once, had a $25M budget.

Exactly. Great actors, great direction and a great screenplay. All of that matters. And even with almost micro-budget VFX, everything came together to make it look like a $200 million tentpole production.

102
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:40:59pm

re: #98 Belafon

It’s not the existence of special effects that I think is damaging.

It’s that visual special effects have become the only metric that elicits responses, if I perusal of reaction videos on YouTube are any indication. At least for the masses of young people who make such videos.

And yes, Star Wars did its bit to help usher in this era. But the original Star Wars was very clearly a western set in space. Alec Guinness noted in interviews that it was a very basic story as such.

But it was the story that caught people up, and the charismatic actors (at least on the part of Harrison Ford.)

The role of the visual supplanting the story is a long one in cinema.

I just find that the past couple of decades has seen the mega corporations (e.g., Disney) run it into the ground.

But they do that with all their productions. Too many sequels/prequels.

103
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:41:30pm

re: #95 danarchy

Also I think there are built in delays that Trump can take advantage of which Jack Smith actually referenced in his SCOTUS petition. Like after the appeals court rules there is 45 days to request an en banc hearing, and then after the en banc hearing wether it is granted or not there is 90 days to request cert from the supreme court. So the Trump team can basically hold things up for 4 and a half months not including any of the time it actually takes for the courts to make their rulings.

From what I understand, the Appeals court can also decide to allow the trial to go forward and remove the injunction. How likely this is I do not know.

Also, Alvin Bragg will be trying Trump likely in March if there are delays elsewhere. I do not beoeive he can stop that trial. And he has the “rape” trial next month to decide on amounts.

104
silverdolphin  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:47:23pm

re: #102 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

It’s not the existence of special effects that I think is damaging.

It’s that visual special effects have become the only metric that elicits responses, if I perusal of reaction videos on YouTube are any indication. At least for the masses of young people who make such videos.

And yes, Star Wars did its bit to help usher in this era. But the original Star Wars was very clearly a western set in space. Alec Guinness noted in interviews that it was a very basic story as such.

But it was the story that caught people up, and the charismatic actors (at least on the part of Harrison Ford.)

The role of the visual supplanting the story is a long one in cinema.

I just find that the past couple of decades has seen the mega corporations (e.g., Disney) run it into the ground.

But they do that with all their productions. Too many sequels/prequels.

Visual effects in Star Wars were not used as shortcuts but to show us something we had never seen before. As a visual medium, this shpuld be a feature, not a bug (as too many movies see happen). Too often VFX are used like blowing up cars - distractions to keep the audience moving along with the plot without wondering if it makes any sense.

Good visual effects support and sustain the plot. Bad ones undercut them.When executives get involved, it almost always ends up bad.

I loved the fact that Barbie was produced by the star and her husband. I think that is one way to worked the way it did because the creative talent’s sensibilities were given paramount attention.

105
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:50:49pm

From RCP:

Trump is as ascendant as ever in polling:

RCP GOP polling through 22 Dec 2023

Haley is slowly ascending, DeSantis descending.

And in regards to Haley, she is polling best in New Hampshire (and not South Carolina) against Trump:

RCP New Hampshire GOP polling thru 22 Dec 2023

It will be interesting if Haley can actually upset Trump in NH.

106
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 10:53:35pm

re: #104 silverdolphin

For me, a bit of cinema or TV should have some meaning.

Visual tricks are neat… but empty. They are like the colorful sprinkles on a cupcake.

107
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:15:25pm

A-tier:

“Cantique de Noel” Enrico Caruso 4k 1916

..

Though that has been highly processed to remove the noise, it’s still an old recording.

108
No Malarkey!  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:16:42pm

re: #66 darthstar

Georgia. A Georgia conviction is state, not federal…so there will be an argument about whether someone slated to do time as a state prisoner can run for President…now we all know this would never happen in a sane country on a sane planet, but we’re dealing with neo-fascism with a healthy dose of fucked in the headedness added on these days.

So Trump gets convicted, but there’s nothing in the constitution that forbids a person convicted of a state felony from representing the federal democracy…why? Because the FRAMERS NEVER THOUGHT SUCH A CONDITION WAS FUCKING POSSIBLE. Or they would have said, “fuck it, let’s move back to England.”

There is nothing prohibiting a person convicted of a federal felony from running either. I understood Fani Willis said the Fulton County trial will still be ongoing on election day,

109
Belafon  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:26:30pm

re: #102 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

The Marvel Universe wouldn’t be where it is without Robert Downey, Jr, Chris Evans, and the others, and the writing and storytelling of thr Russo brothers. The conflicts among the characters drove those stories, and the final two Avengers movies are as good as the Lord of the Rings movies.

There’s a reason DC hasn’t caught up with Marvel in terms of movie success. They can’t seem to tell a good story. It really is all about the big battles and explosions. There have been a few exceptions, the first Wonder Woman, and the Flash (yes, it’s Ezra Miller, but I thought the film actually did a good job of converting Flashpoint to the big screen). And it’s annoying to me that DC can’t pull it off when they have the great cartoons from the 90s and early 2000s to go off of.

110
mmmirele  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:31:53pm

re: #66 darthstar

Georgia. A Georgia conviction is state, not federal…so there will be an argument about whether someone slated to do time as a state prisoner can run for President…now we all know this would never happen in a sane country on a sane planet, but we’re dealing with neo-fascism with a healthy dose of fucked in the headedness added on these days.

So Trump gets convicted, but there’s nothing in the constitution that forbids a person convicted of a state felony from representing the federal democracy…why? Because the FRAMERS NEVER THOUGHT SUCH A CONDITION WAS FUCKING POSSIBLE. Or they would have said, “fuck it, let’s move back to England.”

I’m just going to point out that in 1920 Eugene V. Debs ran for president on the Socialist ticket, even though he was at that time incarcerated under the federal Sedition Act. He got 914K votes. There doesn’t seem to have been any discussion about whether he could be president but his chances of being elected were slim. Warren Harding had him and 23 other anti-war protesters released in 1921.

Yeah, even if Orange Foolius gets convicted in Georgia, and actually gets a jail sentence, there’s going to be a huge discussion about whether that actually bars him from being president.

111
Belafon  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:36:49pm

The flip side is I found 3000 Years of Longing to be ok at best and inadequate for the talents of Tilda Swinton and Idris Elba.

112
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:39:53pm

re: #46 darthstar

Join the club. I never liked HC as a presidential candidate. She was a very good Senator and would be running the show if she’d stayed in. And she was an excellent Secretary of State under President Obama. But she was a bad candidate to have run against Trump. If President Biden’s son hadn’t died of brain cancer we’d be coasting through his second term right now and the Democratic primary race would be his VP (it wouldn’t have been Harris in 2016) versus a crowded field.

Don’t underestimate Trump’s skill in defeating better prepared, more experienced, more knowledgeable opponents. He managed to finish off 15 candidates in the GOP primary. Obviously Hillary had specific issues — the discomfort of many about a female candidate, the Benghazi investigation instigated for the sole purpose of damaging her reputation, the Clinton history. Then when she was the nominee, the assault against her by Comey and the FBI.

Trump was “new” and exciting to the public — the media spending time showing an empty platform waiting for his arrival would have behaved exactly the same way if Biden were the nominee. We really don’t know what would have happened — whether Biden could have pulled it off or been subjected to similar assaults, given that the NY FBI office was Trump central. It’s not as though Biden had a strong base devoted to him.

113
Targetpractice  Dec 23, 2023 • 11:41:18pm

re: #109 Belafon

The Marvel Universe wouldn’t be where it is without Robert Downey, Jr, Chris Evans, and the others, and the writing and storytelling of thr Russo brothers. The conflicts among the characters drove those stories, and the final two Avengers movies are as good as the Lord of the Rings movies.

There’s a reason DC hasn’t caught up with Marvel in terms of movie success. They can’t seem to tell a good story. It really is all about the big battles and explosions. There have been a few exceptions, the first Wonder Woman, and the Flash (yes, it’s Ezra Miller, but I thought the film actually did a good job of converting Flashpoint to the big screen). And it’s annoying to me that DC can’t pull it off when they have the great cartoons from the 90s and early 2000s to go off of.

The MCU wasn’t planned and that’s why it’s largely been a success while the DCEU keeps dropping duds. Iron Man wasn’t written as the start of a big cinematic universe, it was a single experimental film that took a lot of risks under the mindset that if it flopped then they could scrap it and move on. Same deal with The Incredible Hulk, which did well enough to carry forward with Marvel’s plans but poorly enough that there’s a studio mandate never to do another solo Hulk film. And The Avengers was never a guaranteed thing, the whole credits scene in IM was thrown in there at the last minute and Samuel J cast as Nick Fury only because he had a prior agreement with Marvel for the use of his likeness in their Ultimate Universe comics if he got to play Fury for any movies they made.

Both Warner and Universal (Dark Universe monster films) took the wrong lesson from the success of the MCU, which was they were each sitting on a collection of IPs that could be crammed together into cinematic universes of their own. Both announced their intent to follow in Marvel’s wake without abiding by the same mindset of working their way up to the big film. And both have suffered for it, with the DCEU a disorganized mess and the “Dark Universe” kaput after the first film.

114
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 24, 2023 • 12:57:18am

re: #109 Belafon

The Marvel Universe wouldn’t be where it is without Robert Downey, Jr, Chris Evans,

Both have been successful in their superhero roles. But I find them not so appealing otherwise, and I wonder if both are type-cast by now.

.. and the final two Avengers movies are as good as the Lord of the Rings movies.

Will definitely disagree with you there. Jackson’s LOTR ROTK swept the oscars for a reason: because the peers in the industry recognized what Jackson et. al. had accomplished.

I find the content of most superhero movies lacking. They rarely rise above the most basic good-guy vs. bad-guy theme, even those movies which attempt to make the protagonist a compromised anti-hero (see the many variations of Batman.)

The comics, that is, the superhero comics, appeal to teenagers who are in the throws of teenage angst. So many superheroes are clearly formed to give a fantasy that one is special somehow.

That then is translated to the film versions, today with very slick exteriors (high budget effects, on-location shooting, etc.)

X-Men are type for this kind of young adult I-am-special need, a need born from the dramatic changes raging hormones bring, and the universal fear of not being adequate in the world, that many young people experience.

I’m not belittling youth - I was such at one time.

What I am asserting is that as a basis for writing a story I find it all… kind of onenote.

Speculative fiction has long been important in writing. The novel, whether historical or not, often seems livelier when a bit of fantasy is thrown in.

So the “comics”, once disparaged as degenerate, became mainstream. And that turned into IP for cinema and TV. I myself prefer fantasy or “science fiction” (a poor misnomer for most productions to which that label is attached) TV over real-life (or historical) drama TV.

But I have found that many such creative efforts the past couple of decades to be increasingly (as time goes forward) lacking. I really think the production strategies - such as ever fewer episodes per season (e.g., Amazon tries to limit a season to 8 episodes) - are making TV less appealing to me.

I wish for more actor-centric, rather than action-centric, productions, with more effort on dialogue and language, and complex plots without easy resolution.

115
Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus  Dec 24, 2023 • 1:05:49am

The girls choir:

Glade Jul x Carol of the bells // DR Pigekoret (LIVE)


..

116
William Lewis  Dec 24, 2023 • 1:10:10am

re: #114 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Even in the Iron Man movies I have to hold my nose to tolerate Robert Downey, Jr. Fortunately, I find the rest of the people around him & the stories usually interesting enough that it’s possible, if sometimes touch and go.

117
silverdolphin  Dec 24, 2023 • 1:15:14am

re: #112 Hecuba’s daughter

Don’t underestimate Trump’s skill in defeating better prepared, more experienced, more knowledgeable opponents. He managed to finish off 15 candidates in the GOP primary. Obviously Hillary had specific issues — the discomfort of many about a female candidate, the Benghazi investigation instigated for the sole purpose of damaging her reputation, the Clinton history. Then when she was the nominee, the assault against her by Comey and the FBI.

Trump was “new” and exciting to the public — the media spending time showing an empty platform waiting for his arrival would have behaved exactly the same way if Biden were the nominee. We really don’t know what would have happened — whether Biden could have pulled it off or been subjected to similar assaults, given that the NY FBI office was Trump central. It’s not as though Biden had a strong base devoted to him.

Four years later in 2020 rather than 2016, Biden stood his own better against Trump than ANY Republican. So I htink he would have done fine in 2016.

Joe Biden and Donald Trump’s fiery first debate—Here are the highlights

And a big difference i believe is that Biden loves the game, loves playing politics, in the best way. He enjoys comercial politics. He loved reeming Trump in the debate. Hillary loves policy. She is extraordinary there but really does notseem to enjoy the game of politics.

Because of that, I think Biden would have made sure no one in the FBI came after him. He had been a Senator and knew how to play power politics longer than anyone else in the game.First, the New York guys did not hate him liked they hated Hillary. The email scandal and Benghazi would have been nothing. Heck, Trump tried to use Hunter and Burisma in the 2020 debate and Biden shut it down.

But it is a counterfactual we will never know. I do think that if Biden had been able to run n 2016, Hillary would stll be an important and potent person in the Democratic party. I miss her.

118
silverdolphin  Dec 24, 2023 • 1:26:20am

re: #116 William Lewis

Even in the Iron Man movies I have to hold my nose to tolerate Robert Downey, Jr. Fortunately, I find the rest of the people around him & the stories usually interesting enough that it’s possible, if sometimes touch and go.

But the arc of Tony Stark over those several movies is one of Hollywood’s greatest, IMHO. In the first Iron Man he is an arms dealer whose sales result in the injury that changes his life and whose narcissistic tendency requires him to tell everyone he is Iron Man,against the wishes of the government and his friends.He is suave but not really likeable. Downey Jr is great at being an unlikeable character. Probably not acting.

By the end, almost everyone is in tears when he repeats the line from the first movie to save everyone and sacrifice himself. The fact that the same actor could cover that arc (as he fights on the wrong side against other Avengers, finds he does care about some people, and uses his skills to kill Thanos even knowing that it may well leave his daughter without a father) indicates to me that Downey Jr has some acting chops.

Plus I loved him in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang ;-)

Oh and Chris Evans is great in Knives Out. And is fun in Scott Pilgrim.

119
silverdolphin  Dec 24, 2023 • 1:53:07am

re: #114 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

I agree with you about much of the problems with transitioning comics to the screen. They miss some of the important things that make the characters popular. Spiderman is a whiney teenager and MUST be that way, dealing with the death of his uncle and high school, powers or no powers. Superpowers does not all of a sudden make your life perfect. Captain America is a goody two shoes having to deal with the complexities of the modern world in contrast to the simplicyt of WW2. Superman never kills anyone. In fact, he is kind of boring. Clark Kent is the interesting one. Batman has no powers and has to use his wits, which is what makes him a great detective.He is a psychopath who has channeled his need into doing good. The Joker is a psychopath who has channeled his need into chaos. The DC movies, especially the Zack Snyder ones, often fail at recognizing this.

The MECU has done a better job of transitioning those archetypes to the screen. The DCU and Zack have been terrible. It is like they purposefully wanted to destroy the myths. Superman kills. Batman is an idiot simply to set up a fight with Superman that stupidly ends because their mothers have the same names. Shazam forgets about the whiney teenager too much. And Black Adam never really deals with the duality of good guy/bad guy (one guys good can be another ones evil).. The first 2/3rds of Wonder Woman works because it is actually small actions that she has a great impact on and is ruined by turninig it into a final Boss fight with the fucking God of War.

You know the universe I would love to see created. The one that M. Night created in Unbreakable, Split and Glass. Willis, Wright, Jackson, McAvoy, and Taylor-Joy have seldom been better. Because they had archetypes that were well delineated.

Glass (Ending scene)

The 3 movies serve as a Special Edition comic prequel to that Universe, as the character says, where heroes with powers arise spontaneously and a secret group tries to stop them. I’d love to seem him explore that one.

120
No Malarkey!  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:21:44am

A more accurate telling of Washington’s Christmas victory at Trenton on December 26, 17776.

121
JC1  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:33:05am

re: #2 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Boomer on a groomer?

Pope John Paul II was apparently an avid skier for most of his life:
skiinghistory.org

122
JC1  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:36:05am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

I actually thought Rebel Moon might be more than OK after seeing the trailer, but no, it is not the next Star Wars, I am sad to report.

I’m hopeful that the director’s cut is better.

123
JC1  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:40:36am

re: #36 darthstar

They should just release the pee tapes already. It’ll be fun watching MAGA faithfuls posting videos of themselves doing the same shit to show that Trump isn’t a freak.

Trump is such a germophobe that I doubt that the pee tape is true.

124
JC1  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:42:39am

re: #46 darthstar

Join the club. I never liked HC as a presidential candidate. She was a very good Senator and would be running the show if she’d stayed in. And she was an excellent Secretary of State under President Obama. But she was a bad candidate to have run against Trump. If President Biden’s son hadn’t died of brain cancer we’d be coasting through his second term right now and the Democratic primary race would be his VP (it wouldn’t have been Harris in 2016) versus a crowded field.

Mostly agree; I thought that she was a horrible SoC.

125
JC1  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:49:15am

re: #87 Mattand

So bad a candidate, she won the popular vote by close to 3 million.

Running against Trump… She was a horrible candidate. POTUS is not elected by popular vote. It’s like complimenting a team for winning time of possession while losing the game.

What kind of campaign slogan is “I’m with her”? What the heck does that mean? Could she have picked a more useless VP?

126
No Malarkey!  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:52:42am

re: #123 JC1

Trump is such a germophobe that I doubt that the pee tape is true.

I think he allegedly watched one escort pee on another, rather than getting a golden shower himself. Whether that story is true or not, I would be surprised if he didn’t have sex with a Russian escort while in Moscow.

127
No Malarkey!  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:56:07am

re: #125 JC1

Running against Trump… She was a horrible candidate. POTUS is not elected by popular vote. It’s like complimenting a team for winning time of possession while losing the game.

What king of campaign slogan is “I’m with her”? What the heck does that mean? Could she have picked a more useless VP?

While Clinton wasn’t the greatest candidate, she would’ve been an immeasurably better President than Trump, and she probably would’ve won the election if Comey hadn’t violated DOJ policy by sending the October surprise letter announcing a new email investigation.

128
Dr Lizardo  Dec 24, 2023 • 2:59:06am

As Christmas approaches, remember this sage advice…

129
Colère Tueur de Lapin ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 3:29:40am

Should have been obvious at line two.
Wordle 918 4/6

Click to Reveal

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130
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:09:31am

Summer is ready for Christmas

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

131
steve_davis  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:16:13am

re: #56 silverdolphin

As it always has been. A goodnnarrative matters. The first Marvel movies did so well, IMHO, because they were really one long arc. I mean, several of the Capt’n America movies seemed like Avengers. And vice versa. When that arc was finished and Thanos was dead. No one really cared about the next step. And they just seemed worthless since the Multiverse changes ALL.

Barbie has hardly any special effects that were not practical, like in the old days. And almost half the people who saw it were under 22. And Oppenheimer also had very few CGI effects. Both did really well. SO I think a good script always wins.

Too often, high concept ideas (Let’s get all the various Spidermen or Batmen) together in one movie and have them battle their greatest enemies) are not a path to success. Having Batman fight Superman neesd to have a good foundation, something the movie ignored.

Oppenheimer had zero cgi, according to the director. Even the rain for Trinity was a storm that just luckily blew in during filming.

132
Nerdy Fish  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:22:04am

I think I missed yesterday’s in the hubbub of travel.

Click to Reveal

Wordle 918 3/6

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133
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:25:47am

re: #38 darthstar

Now I feel enlightened.

[Embedded content]

I’m reading the book.

134
Colère Tueur de Lapin ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:35:02am

re: #133 Dangerman

Everyone should know where their towel is.

135
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:38:40am

LOL

136
Randall Gross  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:47:09am

bsky.app

137
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:49:49am

re: #39 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

the Israeli people, the Israeli government, the Palestinians, and Hamas/their government. That’s four core players just to start with.

Then there are the state actors pulling strings: other ME countries, Russia, the US.

Add in autonomous groups operating inside them: Hezbollah etc.

Then there are other smaller factions or even individuals (ie surviving relatives) who could / can disrupt things in a flash.

That’s a lot of moving parts. A lot of history, points of view, desires, resentments, fears, wants, disaffection.

Anyone who says it’s simple or offers a black and white solution is maybe in one of those groups, or is not reading the big and necessarily incomplete picture

138
ipsos  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:52:27am

re: #83 sagehen

The White House doesn’t have a swimming pool. They used to, but Nixon replaced it with a bowling alley. Asshole.

The bowling alley is in the basement and didn’t replace FDR’s swimming pool. But it’s true that Nixon replaced the pool, albeit with today’s press briefing room. There’s actually a space under the briefing room that is the remnants of the old pool!

web.archive.org

(And I am so sad that the White House Museum site, which was a private project, no longer exists in live form. It was a brilliant piece of work.)

139
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 4:56:46am

re: #52 silverdolphin

I simply fail to see how that will be a winning path for the GOP. The MAGA Republicans and bigots will not vote for a candidate who is not-Trump, is a female and is a South Asian-American. Without those 2 groups, the GOP coalition cannot hope for a majority. IMHO.

The winning path would have been to not play / not ever support tfg from the start. They couldn’t see it. Too late for that.

Everything now is making the best of a situation that keeps getting more rotten and perverse with every word he says every action he takes and every new legal step.

Backing Haley is pretending to behave like the old normal used to be .

It’s just putting on a brave face

140
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:04:58am

re: #139 Dangerman

The winning path would have been to not play / not ever support tfg from the start. They couldn’t see it. Too late for that.

Everything now is making the best of a situation that keeps getting more rotten and perverse with every word he says every action he takes and every new legal step.

Backing Haley is pretending to behave like the old normal used to be .

It’s just putting on a brave face

This needs to be a Goldwater Republicans kind of year. They’ve shown themselves to be untrustworthy and incapable of governing honestly. The country as a whole needs to punish the GOP and reject their extremist core at the federal, state, and local levels.

It’s the only way for them to learn - and for the media to pick up on the fact that they need to stop normalizing the crazies.

141
Randall Gross  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:09:06am

re: #39 Love-Child of Cassandra and Sisyphus

Bibi and Hamas are playing their own version of a Prisoner’s game.

In this case, both benefit by being stuck in “defect” mode.

The examples shown in the Veritasium video only cover player A vs. player B simultaneously.

But if there is a player C, and both A and B know they can win everytime they defect against C, when all three play together, then A and B have no reason to cooperate with C.

In this case, C are the residents of Gaza who are not part of Hamas or who do not support Hamas.

Unfortunately for the Israelis, they are burning through their goodwill (in the few places it can be found, such as the US mainstream politicians) very quickly.

I have not come across anyone here who has explained Netanyahu’s end game to me.

If he thinks killing all Gaza residents is going to be a win, then I suspect that Israel is going to find itself in existential problems in the near term.

Eventually the backstop the US has at the UN will stop. As the body count keeps rising in Gaza, Biden is going to have to make a decision.

It already seems to me that Biden is counting on Trump being the nominee, that enough never-Trumpers can make up for the loss of the anti-Israel young people that will cost the Dems.

However, if Haley is the nominee and Bibi does go full genocide in Gaza, then the loss of Dem voters on this issue will cost Biden. Enough to lose the election? I don’t know.

Regardless, the loss of life is itself a tragedy that should take precedence over US politics.

Not the stuff you want to read on Christmas eve, but here’s a gift link to the WaPo article that demonstrates how the IDF bombing in Northern Gaza exceeds the worst levels of bombing in recent history. washingtonpost.com

142
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:09:32am

Mastodon

143
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:12:52am

Mastodon

144
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:13:16am

re: #85 silverdolphin

I know the rhetorical answer but doubt any MAGA Republican would figure it out.

[Embedded content]

While the concepts are simple for someone receptive, you’re not gonna convince a magat of anything that doesn’t fit their narrative “R can do no wrong D can do no right”

145
Randall Gross  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:16:39am

Then there’s this, which makes you wonder how many in Israel’s intel services are actively trying to foment a large regional war to .. I don’t know because it’s madness.

bsky.app

146
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:16:45am

re: #143 darthstar

Reuters article referenced in above - also a good read.
reuters.com

147
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:16:56am

re: #90 silverdolphin

They do have a swimming pool. It is outside on the south side. Put in by Ford.

However at 15 m long, it is not the best for laps. The VP residence has a larger pool, closer to 25 m that is great for laps. Biden loved the pool and, according to a salacious book, enjoyed swimming in the nude.

Of course theres a pool where the vp lives.
Its Naval

148
Colère Tueur de Lapin ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:24:29am

Not perfect tail curl, but adequate.

149
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:29:27am

Mastodon

150
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:32:13am

Mastodon

151
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:32:53am

Mastodon

152
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:34:00am

re: #103 silverdolphin

From what I understand, the Appeals court can also decide to allow the trial to go forward and remove the injunction. How likely this is I do not know.

Also, Alvin Bragg will be trying Trump likely in March if there are delays elsewhere. I do not beoeive he can stop that trial. And he has the “rape” trial next month to decide on amounts.

Wow, that’s an awful lot of legal trouble for a guy who never did anything wrong

153
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:37:30am

Mastodon

154
Nojay UK  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:51:59am

re: #142 darthstar

“”Fuck every cause that ends in murder and children crying” — Iain Banks, 1954-2013”

155
Randall Gross  Dec 24, 2023 • 5:52:54am

They weren’t the first colonialists, but they were widespread

I spy with my Cold War satellite eye… nearly 400 Roman forts in the Middle East

156
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 6:08:46am

This was my first thought when I saw the headlines…the GOP will use Putin’s ‘overture’ as an excuse to delay Ukraine funding, thus giving Putin more time to gain momentum and kill Ukrainians.

Mastodon

158
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 6:20:41am

Good morning!

159
Dr Lizardo  Dec 24, 2023 • 6:57:00am

NORAD Santa tracker is live.

noradsanta.org

160
Belafon  Dec 24, 2023 • 6:59:15am
161
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:01:30am

re: #56 silverdolphin

As it always has been. A goodnnarrative matters. The first Marvel movies did so well, IMHO, because they were really one long arc. I mean, several of the Capt’n America movies seemed like Avengers. And vice versa. When that arc was finished and Thanos was dead. No one really cared about the next step. And they just seemed worthless since the Multiverse changes ALL.

Barbie has hardly any special effects that were not practical, like in the old days. And almost half the people who saw it were under 22. And Oppenheimer also had very few CGI effects. Both did really well. SO I think a good script always wins.

Too often, high concept ideas (Let’s get all the various Spidermen or Batmen) together in one movie and have them battle their greatest enemies) are not a path to success. Having Batman fight Superman neesd to have a good foundation, something the movie ignored.

The Multiverse and constant resets are one reason I never got into comic book stuff as an adult. Couple of friends of mine are long-time collectors*. But as I told one, if you read the synopsis of a particular character on Wikipedia or an equivalent it’s a horrid mish-mash as different writers want their take on the character and they need to retcon certain events or make other events not happen. Plus it seems that a new “ultimate” threat or crisis has to appear. I asked one friend how many times Superman has been “killed” and it is somewhat embarrassing. In part it’s also not knowing where to start as well. So I’ve stuck to a few classics like Watchmen and The Sandman that had known runs.

* - I think neither is collecting anymore. And generally reading old stuff via electronic collections after selling off physical copies. Both also seem somewhat disillusioned with both the current DC and Marvel output as well.

162
Belafon  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:06:30am
163
Vicious Babushka  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:07:21am

re: #80 sagehen

Before 1973, wasn’t Gaza part of Egypt? And when Israel gave back the Sinai, but Egypt agreed they could keep Gaza, why didn’t all those Egyptian citizens go to actual Egypt? (or did Egypt leave them there on purpose just to be a headache? I’m pretty sure that was Jordan’s rationale for not taking in all the Jordanians when they relinquished their claim on the West Bank.)

How dare you cite actual history that you saw with your own eyes because you were alive when it all happened.

164
Sherlock Hound  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:20:13am

re: #88 retired cynic

Thumbs up, sir! Thank you! (And that with Russia, and Emails, and Benghazi, and Comey, and 30 years of anti-Clinton media abuse.)

I hate the talk about HRC as a “failure”. She won the popular vote. More importantly to me, she was and is one of the very few politicians I liked as a person.
I feel that that is a strong statement. If you’re a candidate, having supporters like me is gold! Imagine being liked sincerely, and not for strategic reasons, or quid pro quo.

Joe Biden is as well, a very likeable politician and person. I’d wonder why HRC is not similarly respected, but that has been discussed with no good point.

(P.S. I have HRC’s “BUT HER EMAILS” cap. I wear it proudly.)

165
A hollow voice says: Abort SCOTUS  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:21:06am

It’s a holly, jolly beagle!

N3U2U0F1TFk0eTVZY2xQaXowekNHRXVjY0R6Z3AvajNzQmt4aFlLYUg3c2ZmbEZlaXR1T0lSZGVtblRLUUJkbVdaL0VwZ2FQZWhsNFpvano1ZGdTVTlLdjg0Lzh4MmhRbXRvNTVIWnZvMlE9Ojqq+epCvC9ah9iFhyl5Pn1B

166
sizzzzlerz  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:21:49am

Not a good day to play the lottery

Click to Reveal

Wordle 918 5/6

🟨🟨⬛⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

167
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:22:47am

Mastodon

168
A hollow voice says: Abort SCOTUS  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:24:00am

Christmas is coming (resistance is futile).

169
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:25:55am

14 days…it’s better than nothing.

Mastodon

170
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:27:46am

re: #168 A hollow voice says: Abort SCOTUS

Christmas is coming (resistance is futile).

[Embedded content]

We’ve had white lights around the house for about the last 7 years. This year the missus agreed to let me switch back to colors…then I never got to Ace to pick up new lights. Until yesterday, and they’re up and on until she asks me to turn them off.

171
sagehen  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:29:38am

re: #169 darthstar

14 days…it’s better than nothing.

“halt all military and intelligence operations in the Strip for two weeks”

halt intelligence operations? So they agree not to look around, not try to find out what Hamas is planning for day 15?

Fuck that noise.

172
Vicious Babushka  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:33:18am

re: #171 sagehen

“halt all military and intelligence operations in the Strip for two weeks”

halt intelligence operations? So they agree not to look around, not try to find out what Hamas is planning for day 15?

Fuck that noise.

No flying spy drones with infra red sensors to locate the remaining hostages.

173
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:38:40am

re: #2 teleskiguy

Boomer on a groomer?

Pontifex on a Winter Sportsplex

174
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:45:08am

Mastodon

Schrader was pouring off of a chair, but woke up while I was trying to make the camera work.

175
Egregious Philbin  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:57:03am

The brilliant Stan Freberg on the true meaning of Christmas.

Stan Freberg - Green Christmas. Stereo

176
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:57:59am

What Went Wrong for Ron DeSantis

Don’t bother reading it
It presupposes something could have been “fixed” for a different outcome

Nope. He’s not presidential material. He’s not even presidential campaign material.

177
sagehen  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:00:45am

re: #176 Dangerman

What Went Wrong for Ron DeSantis

Don’t bother reading it
It presupposes something could have been “fixed” for a different outcome

Nope. He’s not presidential material. He’s not even presidential campaign material.

I took some joy, maybe it’s just schadenfreude, from the final paragraph:

“Ryan Tyson, Mr. DeSantis’s longtime pollster and one of his closest advisers, has privately said to multiple people that they are now at the point in the campaign where they need to ‘make the patient comfortable,’ a phrase evoking hospice care. Others have spoken of a coming period of reputation management, both for the governor and themselves, after a slow-motion implosion of the relationship between the campaign and an allied super PAC left even his most ardent supporters drained and demoralized.”

178
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:04:15am

re: #175 Egregious Philbin

The brilliant Stan Freberg on the true meaning of Christmas.

[Embedded content]

Video

I can still hear the scratch in the record:

that’s why I’m chairman of the board, that’s why I’m chairman of the board, that’s why I’m chairman of the board…

179
No Malarkey!  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:04:24am

re: #176 Dangerman

What Went Wrong for Ron DeSantis

Don’t bother reading it
It presupposes something could have been “fixed” for a different outcome

Nope. He’s not presidential material. He’s not even presidential campaign material.

The big advantage Trump had in 2016 was that he was an anti-politician. He had a persona carefully crafted over decades of a successful businessman and deal maker who could get things done and said what he thought, not poll tested platitudes like the stuffed shirts he ran against in the GOP primary. I think it will be very difficult for any politician, much less one as charisma-free as DeSantis, to assume the mantle of Dear Leader of MAGA from Trump.

180
Dangerman  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:04:46am

181
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:06:14am

A different sort of Christmas story:

The Lost Town of Newtown Jerpoint (Jerpoint Park)

What’s left of the abandoned medieval village of Newtown Jerpoint lies just outside the Irish town of Thomastown, in Kilkenny. The ruins of Saint Nicholas’ Church, which dates to sometime between the 12th and 13th centuries, still stand. Local legend has it that Saint Nicholas—a.k.a Father Christmas, the inspiration behind Santa Claus—is buried within a cracked, carved tomb in its grounds.

182
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:08:26am

re: #181 Backwoods Sleuth

A different sort of Christmas story:

The Lost Town of Newtown Jerpoint (Jerpoint Park)

more:

Jerpoint Park, Ireland: The Farmer Who Unearthed a Lost 800 Year Old Town

183
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:10:26am

re: #181 Backwoods Sleuth

Very cool. Though it’s probably not St. Nick who’s buried there.

184
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:11:25am

185
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:11:53am

Christmas Eve-il Weevil?

Mastodon

186
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:12:13am

re: #180 Dangerman

Nah. We are not going to let go.

187
Vicious Babushka  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:14:53am

re: #180 Dangerman

[Embedded content]

In a World of Texases Tex Asses, be a Michigan.

188
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:15:04am

Kind of a cute scene at the table next to us last night…there was a couple with their son and his girlfriend having dinner…the boy looks like your basic jock…kind of stuffs his face with food when he eats and doesn’t stop talking. The parents are around my age, a little dressed up because it’s Xmas. The girfriend, Asian, is dressed the way 20 somethings dress when the want to look fancy - black floor length dress with shoulder straps that can be worn up or off to the side, white sweater to cover.

After they finished eating, the boy and girl switch places so he can take her picture with the lights of San Francisco across the bay behind her (it is a lovely view from the Spinnaker in Sausalito and the food is okay…waiters are all formal and roll the food out on carts instead of carrying trays overhead) and that’s where it got amusing…she starts by sitting up and smiling, then she pouts, flicks her hair to one side, pulls a strap off one shoulder, then the next, and he takes a good dozen pics. As this goes on I can see the mother start to frown with disappointment. Then her son hands her the phone to inspect, she flips through them, hands it back, takes a selfie, then has him do another round of photos.

189
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:20:18am

190
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:20:43am

When I say ‘Fiver’, I’m thinking Watership Down , so I’ll call a five a rabbit.

Today I got a rabbit. Wordle 918 5/6*

Click to Reveal

⬜🟩🟨⬜⬜
⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩
⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩
🟨🟩🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

191
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:23:05am

Mastodon

192
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:24:45am

Mastodon

193
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:26:24am

Mastodon

194
Dr Lizardo  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:31:15am

195
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:33:25am

196
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:38:26am

re: #195 jeffreyw

Is there a little bit of Norm Abram in that one?

197
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:43:14am

Mastodon

198
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:44:13am

Merry Christmas, you motherfathering Republicans!

House GOP traps itself in impeachment box

Republicans are barreling toward an impeachment vote, still short of a majority. But if they skip one altogether, it might look like failure to the base.
Now that House Republicans have formalized the impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden, anything less than voting to remove him could look like failure.

Right now, though, they don’t have the votes to do that — putting them in a bind of their own making.

Much of the House GOP has tried to keep the question of a full-scale removal vote at arm’s length, despite the course they’ve charted toward formal articles of impeachment. It’s not hard to see why: They’ll start the election year with only a three-vote majority, which could shrink even further, and 17 incumbents who represent districts Biden won. Plus, Democrats are almost guaranteed to unanimously oppose impeachment.

All that means a vote to recommend booting the president from office would be highly risky.

Republicans stress they’ve only endorsed giving their investigations more legal teeth, as they’ve struggled to find clear evidence linking decisions made by Joe Biden to his family’s business deals. And that’s the bar some centrists have emphasized that investigators need to clear in order to earn enough votes.

Every presidential impeachment inquiry in modern times has led to a formal impeachment vote — except in the case of Richard Nixon, who resigned from office before that could happen. A GOP failure to follow suit this time would likely mean severe backlash from the right flank, former President Donald Trump and an increasingly restless base who, some Republicans acknowledge, treat impeachment as a fait accompli.

“I think there’s an expectation in the base now: ‘You voted for impeachment.’ … They look at this as an impeachment vote,” Rep. Ken Buck (R-Colo.) said of the inquiry, which he ultimately voted to formalize despite criticizing it just days before. He said he hadn’t changed his thinking on impeachment itself.

politico.com

199
Romantic Heretic  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:47:29am

re: #80 sagehen

I’m afraid I am having trouble grasping your point. This is Egypt’s fault?

200
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:48:03am

The world is different with Mastodon embeds. Interesting artifacts on the Master Spy page.

Mastodon

201
Vicious Babushka  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:49:33am

Mastodon

202
wrenchwench  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:53:54am

OK Belafon, time to incorporate a musical number.

Mastodon

203
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:55:19am

re: #198 Joe Bacon ✅

The GOP reps are going to hem and haw about an actual impeachment vote, and then vote for it anyways. Same rhetoric they went through about the formal inquiry. They yap about doubts and evidence, and then fall into line with the party and vote for it since the Party of No Agency lives for revenge politics at this stage.

204
Belafon  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:56:53am

re: #202 wrenchwench

OK Belafon, time to incorporate a musical number.

[Embedded content]

”,”width”:200,”height”:113,”image”:”files.mastodon.social},”poll”:null}

Next year, I’m going to have to add a bunch of lights on the house, and I need to actually sync my lights and the music. I may have to add that song.

205
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:58:17am

re: #196 PhillyPretzel ✅

Is there a little bit of Norm Abram in that one?

The house doesn’t look old enough.

206
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 8:59:55am

re: #205 jeffreyw

I agree. But I was referring to one of Norm’s favorite lines. Measure twice cut once.

207
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:00:44am

Ah Republican being a Republican…sigh…

208
Teukka  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:05:10am

Happy Holidays Y’all!
(Image is from Kajsa Wallin’s christmas cards for Postnord for Christmas 2018)

209
Joe Bacon ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:10:16am

210
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:13:01am

Mastodon

Earlier this month, Maine Director of Elections Heidi M. Peckham said in a letter that Christie’s campaign had only turned in 844 of the minimum 2,000 certified signatures required to appear on the ballot.

Candidates faced a requirement of filing signatures with municipal clerks for certification before submitting them to the secretary of state’s office.

A Christie spokesperson responded at the time that the campaign had gathered 6,000 signatures, arguing it was “simply a procedural issue with the way they reviewed signatures and is under appeal.”

211
Unabogie  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:19:17am

re: #198 Joe Bacon ✅

Republicans stress they’ve only endorsed giving their investigations more legal teeth, as they’ve struggled to find clear evidence linking decisions made by Joe Biden to his family’s business deals.

This is the part that never made sense. Linking decisions made by Biden to deals made by his son? Then how do they possibly think Trump owning a hotel and a golf resort that accepts direct payment from foreign governments is fine?

The best they’ve got is to somehow prove that Biden was aware of his son’s business. Aware of it! That’s the bar they’ve set. So was Trump “aware” of what Don Jr. and Jared were doing in their business dealings? Of course! It was Trump’s company all along! It’s absurd!

212
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:40:34am

Mastodon

213
🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈  Dec 24, 2023 • 9:41:57am

Aaron Carter’s sister.

214
Belafon  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:04:55am

If you have (HBO) MAX, they have the Calcifer Yule Log.

215
goddamnedfrank  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:12:26am

re: #80 sagehen

Before 1973, wasn’t Gaza part of Egypt? And when Israel gave back the Sinai, but Egypt agreed they could keep Gaza, why didn’t all those Egyptian citizens go to actual Egypt? (or did Egypt leave them there on purpose just to be a headache? I’m pretty sure that was Jordan’s rationale for not taking in all the Jordanians when they relinquished their claim on the West Bank.)

No, Gaza was occupied by Egypt but was not a part of it politically. Egypt held parliamentary elections in 1971 that did not list Gaza as a constituency and that Gazans were not allowed to vote in. They were never Egyptian citizens and had no right to even apply for Egyptian citizenship.

216
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:13:35am

This is why you never buy tamales from a white dude.

217
steve_davis  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:15:37am

Steam is still apparently running their latest sale, if anyone is interested in picking up games at much better than typical prices. Got Anno 1800 for I think 15 bucks, and the remastered Age of Empires II for about 5.

218
Belafon  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:15:58am

re: #213 🐈 Crush White Nationalism 🐈

Aaron Carter’s sister.

[Embedded content]

The parents have lost three children.

219
Belafon  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:17:34am

re: #216 darthstar

This is why you never buy tamales from a white dude.

[Embedded content]

Luckily I have plenty of places to go, including two Mexican markets.

220
BeenHereAwhile  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:18:31am

re: #191 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Read the alt text.

221
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:19:40am

re: #219 Belafon

Luckily I have plenty of places to go, including two Mexican markets.

I’m hoping our housekeeper ‘surprises’ us with tamales again this year. She makes really good ones. But I’ll buy from some abuelita selling them out of an ice chest in a parking lot if I have to.

222
darthstar  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:21:37am

At least they’re not trying to stir shit up with the remaining residents…

Mastodon

223
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:23:22am

re: #218 Belafon

The parents have lost three children.

There was also an older half sibling that died this year.

Four people all gone before age 42. That family has been through a brutal wringer.

224
Jay C  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:23:45am

re: #210 Backwoods Sleuth

[Embedded content]

”,”width”:640,”height”:360,”image”:”files.mastodon.social]xWax”,”published_at”:”2023-12-22T01:07:00.000Z”},”poll”:null}

Jill Wine-Banks’ comment here makes little sense: the Colorado SC ruling keeping Trump off the ballot (and similar motions being argued in other states) are, AFAICT, based on Constitutional issues relating to interpretations of the 14th Amendment. If I am reading the article correctly, Chris Christie’s being barred from the Maine primary is strictly a (state) procedural issue, based on the number of valid signatures collected. Which argument sounds like utter bullshit to me, but never mind.

Like him or not, I just can’t imagine Big Chris not running a campaign organization that wouldn’t (at the very least) check out the ballot qualification rules for the various state primaries, and try to make sure they got the necessary signatures, or whatever in in good time.
He’s no Dean Phillips…

225
Vicious Babushka  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:23:49am

“Palestinian Voices For Hamas” strikes again.

Mastodon

226
Sherlock Hound  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:25:48am

re: #225 Vicious Babushka

A group in NYC will be doing the same thing shortly. Heighten the contradictions!

227
mmmirele  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:30:34am

re: #225 Vicious Babushka

Way to piss off people who haven’t paid attention. They’re not going to be happy with you doing this. And why yes, I hope they’re removed soon. There’s protesting and there’s being a complete and utter asshole. This is the latter.

228
Dave In Austin  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:30:40am

I’m signed in and over run with ads!!!

229
DodgerFan1988  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:35:43am
230
goddamnedfrank  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:37:37am

re: #224 Jay C

Jill Wine-Banks’ comment here makes little sense: the Colorado SC ruling keeping Trump off the ballot (and similar motions being argued in other states) are, AFAICT, based on Constitutional issues relating to interpretations of the 14th Amendment. If I am reading the article correctly, Chris Christie’s being barred from the Maine primary is strictly a (state) procedural issue, based on the number of valid signatures collected. Which argument sounds like utter bullshit to me, but never mind.

Like him or not, I just can’t imagine Big Chris not running a campaign organization that wouldn’t (at the very least) check out the ballot qualification rules for the various state primaries, and try to make sure they got the necessary signatures, or whatever in in good time.
He’s no Dean Phillips…

I have no problem believing he didn’t get enough valid signatures, he’s deeply unpopular within the GOP right now and is only running as an opportunity to shit on Trump (who absolutely deserves every ounce of that shit.) Signature gathering is a goat rodeo and you need a significant buffer to get over the hurdle, in California after submission you need to pass a random sample test suggesting that you’ve got 110% of the minimum number that are valid to qualify automatically, otherwise they all have to be checked, unless the random sample comes in below 95% in which case you’re SOL.

It’s easy to see how this can be gamed by deliberately flooding a signature campaign with invalid bullshit, and if you’re Chris Christie there are going to be a lot of angry MAGA shitheads eager to ratfuck you off the ballot.

231
PhillyPretzel ✅  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:39:03am

re: #229 DodgerFan1988

We should have more of this and yes put it in the GOP and MAGA collective faces.

232
Randall Gross  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:45:15am

re: #28 Dangerman

While he might think he has countered the article, in the gist of the article WaPo points out that the level of destruction in the limited window of time is greater than that in many other conflicts which all spanned multiple years.

233
jeffreyw  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:46:07am

Mastodon

234
Jay C  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:46:29am

re: #230 goddamnedfrank

I have no problem believing he didn’t get enough valid signatures, he’s deeply unpopular within the GOP right now and is only running as an opportunity to shit on Trump (who absolutely deserves every ounce of that shit.) Signature gathering is a shit show and you need a significant buffer to get over the hurdle, in California after submission you need to pass a random sample test suggesting that you’ve got 110% of the minimum number that are valid to qualify automatically, otherwise they all have to be checked, unless the random sample comes in below 95% in which case you’re SOL.

It’s easy to see how this can be gamed by deliberately flooding a signature campaign with invalid bullshit, and if you’re Chris Christie there are going to be a lot of angry MAGA shitheads eager to ratfuck you off the ballot.

True enough, maybe: hence my use of the word “try”…

235
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:50:49am

re: #234 Jay C

True enough, maybe: hence my use of the word “try”…

he didn’t follow NH’s rules for how to file the petitions:

“We appreciate that the court upheld the integrity of Maine’s well-established ballot access requirements,” Maine Secretary of State Shenna Bellows said in a statement. “Every candidate, including presidential candidates, must follow the law to qualify for the ballot. We are glad that the court recognized that Maine law is workable and fair to all.”

Earlier this month, Maine Director of Elections Heidi M. Peckham said in a letter that Christie’s campaign had only turned in 844 of the minimum 2,000 certified signatures required to appear on the ballot.

Candidates faced a requirement of filing signatures with municipal clerks for certification before submitting them to the secretary of state’s office.

236
Backwoods Sleuth  Dec 24, 2023 • 10:56:59am

LOL, if only believing you’re immune from prosecution was that easy, prisons wouldn’t be needed

Mastodon

237
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 24, 2023 • 11:04:58am

re: #129 Colère Tueur de Lapin ✅

Should have been obvious at line two.
Wordle 918 4/6

[Embedded content]

Had a 50/50 at line 3 and got it right

Click to Reveal

Wordle 918 3/6

🟨🟨⬜⬜🟩
🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

group: 3,3,3,4

238
sagehen  Dec 24, 2023 • 11:15:57am

re: #232 Randall Gross

While he might think he has countered the article, in the gist of the article WaPo points out that the level of destruction in the limited window of time is greater than that in many other conflicts which all spanned multiple years.

There are tunnels every which way in Gaza, more than there are streets on the surface. Those tunnels run under and have entrances into every significant building — hospitals, schools, warehouses, apartment buildings, everything. The only way to destroy those tunnels is with big fucking bombs that make 30-40 foot holes.

If the IDF went into those tunnels on foot and planted explosives… it would still collapse the buildings above them.

239
austin_blue  Dec 24, 2023 • 7:00:50pm

re: #172 Vicious Babushka

No flying spy drones with infra red sensors to locate the remaining hostages.

Infra-red sensors on drones are useless for tunnel complexes. Ten feet of dirt defeats them.


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